#amane discourse

[meowkusunoki]

imo any discussion of "the correct verdict for [character] was [forgiven/unforgiven]" is misguided because there is no correct verdict. milgram is an inherently abusive system, which means that even if the ones acting in it (the audience/es) have good intentions, no actual improvement will come of it. it is literally make it worse or make it worser.

in every trial so far, the main justification for an unforgiven verdict was "let's not enable their bad behavior" (i am counting denying you did anything wrong at all as a bad behavior), which is fair. we do want these characters to get better. but the consequences are mental and now physical torture, which i don't think i even have to say will not bring about self improvement, at least not at no cost. i mean, sure, fuuta and mahiru were realizing the error of their ways, but one was under so much stress that he fell victim to religious delusions, and the other is straight up dead.

the character i see the most discussion about this is amane, and it's usually "we have to show her that she/what she did/her religion is wrong" which, again, is fair. she needs to realize it's wrong before she can escape and start to heal. but do we really think an unforgiven verdict would help with that? i mean, it sure didn't the first time, i can't imagine that torturing this kid harder would make our lives any more awesome /ref

and for the forgiven characters as well. haruka and muu became worse in trial 2, yes, but how much better would they have been if they had been unforgiven? yuno and kazui are upset at their forgiven verdicts because they don't think they deserve them, but how much more upset would they have been if they were actively tormented by unforgiven verdicts?

milgram itself is named after the milgram experiment, where it was tested how far people would go in hurting someone else if it was to follow instructions. by voting, we are hurting someone else under jackalope's instructions, regardless of what our vote is, or what our intentions are. that's been hinted from the very beginning, and it only becomes more apparent with each trial.

[bravadoting]

I think Amane’s reasons are multifaceted.

While she does kill her mother for “breaking the rules,” I think it’s informed by the unequal treatment between children and adults. Amane’s mother can get away with breaking the rules in a way that Amane cannot due to being more heavily monitored and punished.

Additionally, Amane likely finds it as more acceptable to frame her murder as a “religious punishment” rather than the emotional reasons present in her song lyrics.

“So there is no second time, I’ll give back the judgment that you gave to me”

“After you cry, repent, and kneel, it’s now your turn to say that hopeless ‘I’m sorry’”

“You’re sorry? I don’t care! Please, go ahead and die already

Remember MY cries, MY repents, MY words of “I’m sorry” that I said to you?”

(This isn’t to say Amane unpacked her trauma and beliefs like you said, nor should she be expected to at this age and in this retraumatizing prison environment. However, I think it does her a disservice to ignore how “Amane is upset with how she’s treated” and “She wants to please her family and God” are two truths that can coexist.)

it annoys me so much when people say anything along the lines of "amane killed because she was being abused by the religious cult, she had to kill someone to survive/escape the cult"

she literally thought she was doing what was in the best interest of her religion. thats why she killed someone. she is 100% still in the cult

[the-sol-eater]

Okay listen I don't want Amane to be unforgiven, at all, and even though I'm pretty confident her verdict will turn up as forgiven given how the votes have gone I am aware there is a sliver chance that she could barely get into unforgiven, and that scares me That being said however, the one positive that would come from her being unforgiven would be seeing Jackalope's reaction because could you fucking imagine "Oh, you didn't forgive her because you thought you could change her worldview? Tough luck with that" [One Trial Later] "Are you actually fucking kidding me, say sike right fucking now."

[kaeyaswifefromsnezhnaya]

People are like "you're mischaracterizing this character, I can't believe it" and then it turns out that it's because they think he's either completely sinless or evil incarnate, and some say he's actually somewhere in the middle

"People don't understand this character at all because they point out his flaws and wrong behavior in some situations, which does not coincide with my opinion that this character is perfect and makes mistakes only within safe permitted limits" — the same applies to their relationship

Or "people don't understand this character, they whitewash him too much, what is there to love about him, I just don't get it because I don't like him and I only want to see him as a villain"

[oboetemasuka]

*gasp* Magic hour is still real. I can breathe now.

The trend lines say she'll survive by a thin margin. My intuition says not if the pit-to-pit differences don't decrease. (But if they do decrease, then the jumps also decrease.) In either case, it's going to be close.

[dearmahiru-archive]

i am excited for purge march but i'm also dreading it at the same time. all of the faceless victims have been revealed thus far and considering amane's victims is another child... if milgram continues the trend of being shocking last minute and decides to outright depict amane's murder i am going so mad. we all know the casual fanbase cannot handle shocking imagery without immediately labeling said prisoner as evil

[purgemarchlockdown]

Sometimes my brain enters awful twitter user mode goes “your wrong for relating to characters who went through worse situations than you because your making everything about youself!” And I have to bat it away with a baseball bat so I dont feel awful the whole day.

[milgrambrrbrr]

i have the thought

Amane Momose from Milgram and Chara from Undertale are same genre of kids

[trehan-iris]

A visionary discourse unfolded as Mr. Aman Trehan, executive director of Trehan Iris, delved into 'Unlocking the Future: Experiential Retail and Mixed-Use Developments’ at Mapic India: Shopping Centre Summit & Awards. He illuminated the path forward, emphasising the importance of creating engaging experiences and versatile spaces and also shed light on the transformative power of experiential retail and dynamic mixed-use spaces.

#TrehanIris #RealEstate #DelhiNCR #MapicIndia #RetailThoughtLeadership #Summit #Awards

[boatemboys]

this is what amane discourse sounds like to me

[meowkusunoki]

btw if you voted muu guilty while knowing about harukas threat you CANNOT argue that amane should have been guilty for the sake of damage control

[oboetemasuka]

Being an Amane fan during her voting

Scream at the votes going down

Cheer when the rate slows down

Scream at Kotoko for saying she was going to attack Amane

Hug Amane when the forgiven verdict is locked in

"But what if Kotoko did attack Amane?" (x)

Make bad things happen to Amane (x)

Make more bad things happen to Amane (x)

Make-

OW OW OW OW OW-

[oboetemasuka]

I just wanted to add a few more anecdotes.

Based on Pai's graph, Mahiru was consistently hovering around 72%. She got a boost to 73% after Kazui's video, but she was affected by the guilty shrine; probably August 8, as she lost about .4% by the following day. (Incidentally, that's when I joined the voting.) From there, she lost about 4% until Amane's video came out, and then she recovered .3% on the last day.

In contrast, Kazui was a full-out tug of war. Even if it seemed like the red was winning, he was never more than 2% behind. I guess you could say that Mahiru's "average day" vote went down drastically, while Kazui's was already divisive as-is.

I wonder what that means for Amane. Yes, I noticed that her percentage drop is slowing down; I think she could "survive" to Mikoto's video. Then there's the case with her first trial. She started around 80%, but she just kept dropping until she was just below the guilty range. If Mikoto's video hadn't been delayed then, would she have gotten a boost back into the blue?

Okay, time for me to stop overthinking.

So about Amane's voting percentage. I've seen a fair few people worried that if her Innocent percentage is dropping, it must be because there are more people voting her Guilty than people voting her Innocent. However, this is not necessarily the case, and while it may be my own biases speaking here, I actually think there's a pretty good chance there are currently more people voting her Innocent than Guilty, and her percentage is dropping only due to a mathematical quirk. It's a pretty simple concept really, it's because the percentage changes per day don't relate directly to what votes happened during that day, but rather, they tend towards what can be considered an "average day"'s vote. I'll explain under the cut if anyone's confused.

Also this will be focused on Amane but it can be applied to any prisoner vote that follows a similar trend.

Also also as a disclaimer I am not very educated on complex statistics so a lot of my claims might be a bit off.

So it's pretty clear looking at the data, a lot of people voted Amane Innocent during the first few days after Purge March came out, but then stopped voting for one reason or another. I'll call these people "One Time Voters" to give them some name.

To visualize, let's take some manageable numbers to understand what's going on. Although hundreds of thousands of people vote every day, let's take some smaller numbers, and say that after One Time Voters were done voting, Amane's situation looked something like this.

30 votes for Innocent, 10 votes for Guilty. So a 75%/25% split, which I believe is around the highest peak Inno percentages got. We'll call this "Day 0." After this, One Time Voters stopped voting, and Innocent was winning by 20 votes.

Now, let's say, for the sake of simplicity, that every day after this, 6 people voted her Innocent and 5 people voted her Guilty. Obviously this is a massive oversimplification, not everyone votes the same way every day, but I'm trying to explain the basic idea here. Thus, Day 1 would look like this.

36 Inno votes, 15 Guilty votes. So, a difference of 21 votes in the favor of Innocent. You would think this means her inno percentage would go up, yeah?

Except, if you do the math here, the spilt is 70,59%/29,41% (rounding a bit liberally here). Her percentage went down almost 5%.

That seems weird. Let's extend this over a few more days and see what it looks like afterwards. Let's skip to Day 20.

150 Inno votes, 110 Guilty votes. The difference is now 40 votes, double what it was originally.

And yet, when you do the math, the split is now 57,7%/42,3% (again rounding a decent bit). Again, even though in absolute terms Amane is even further from being guiltied than before, it sure doesn't look like it!

This is what I meant at the start. The percentages in the website don't change based on the results of an individual day, but rather, they change to always more closely align with what an "average day" of voting looks like. In this example, the "average day" is 6 Inno votes, 5 Guilty votes, for a total of 11 and thus a 54.54%/45.46% split. This creates a particular behavior, which can be observed by looking at Day 21.

156 Inno votes, 115 Guilty, a difference of 41 votes and a 57.56%/42.44% split. You'll notice the inno percentage went down from ~57,7% to ~57.56%, a 0.14% decrease. But the decrease from Day 0 to Day 1 was almost 5%, remember?

That's because the average split (54,54%) is acting as an asymptote of the function Inno percentage vs Time. I say it "acts like" because I know 0% about statistics so I'm not sure if that term is appropriate here, but it's a good visualization of what's happening I think. In case you somehow don't know what that is, I'll give you an example.

That's the function 1/x. As you can see, it has a horizontal asymptote in f(x) = 0. That means it always gets closer and closer to the constant 0, but never "touches" it (no matter what it may look like), and certainly never "crosses" it. Additionally, as you can see, it follows a very particular behavior. It has a very steep "drop-off" at "the beginning" (mathematicians please don't hate me for the very coloquial terms I'm using), then gets progressively "slower" as it approaches the asymptote.

Sound familiar? It's what we were talking about before, how the bigger the difference between the current voting percentage and the average, the faster it drops. It's "correcting" towards the asymptote, the average.

If you've been paying close attention, you'll notice this is vaguely what's been happening with Amane's Inno percentage. Here's a graph from this post by iris-drawing-stuff (thank you so much I love graphs). It only goes up to the seventh of September, but the behavior can already be observed.

As you can see, after the brief spike immediately after the release of Purge March, Amane's percentage drops like 5% in just about two days, but then it took it around 4 or 5 days to drop another 5. And anecdotally, I think I saw it only drop like ~0.22% in a day recently, so it would take almost five days to drop just 1 percent.

And you can even see a similar thing on Mahiru's and Kazui's. Mahiru, who didn't have many oddities, stayed practically constant around her aymptote, while Kazui slowly corrected for the whole "circumstance" of people voting out of superstition.

Again, this is much more complex than a simple asymptote, because there's a lot of fluctuation here. People join the fandom, people stop voting, etc. But we can probably (I am not very educated on this) expect it to "slow down" even more in the following days, until it reaches a certain average percentage it will hover around until voting ends. Until this happens, it is highly unlikely Amane's inno percentage goes up significantly ever again, but there is a certain percentage it will likely not go under. It's also important to keep in mind that since there's only a finite time the voting will be open, we might not get as close to the 'asymptote' as we possibly could.

The one exception, as many have already predicted, might be the release of Double, where One Time Voters may return to the page and vote Amane Inno once again. Frankly, I think at that point there will be too many days of "average" for that to make a noticeable difference, but even if it does go up, it will likely go down again quickly after One Time Voters leave again. Be prepared for that.

The final question is logically: where is the asymptote? That I cannot tell you, but it's very clear that it's around 50% and it isn't a blow-out on either side. So keep voting, regardless of whether you're voting her Inno or Guilty, because her situation is still very delicate.

Personally, by eye-balling it, I'm sorta hoping she hovers somehwere between 52 and 53 inno percent, but I'm immensely biased. I just don't think my heart will be able to take it if she ever goes below 51%, and I will cry if she ends up with like 49% and gets guiltied.

I don't want to give anyone too much false hope. There is absolutely a chance she ends up Guilty. I'm just saying it's not certain in the slightest, at least not for now.

I did try my best to figure something out with the power of overlaying images, but I'm not confident on sharing my results because they suck and are probably massively biased and I have a phobia of being wrong on the interned (/j) (though the things I did do suggest Amane never drops below 50% inno, I hope I'm right about that and I'm not just doing insane gymnastics for the result I want).

Anyways, I hope that could give some insight on what the deal with Amane's percentage might be, though again I am not a mathematician by any means, feel free to correct me if when you see anything I got wrong. Take care! And Inno voters, don't lose hope! And Guilty voters, uh, thanks for reading too!

[dearmahiru-archive]

ik this is the mahiru blog but on your recent comments on amane, i had to say Thank God i'm finally seeing somebody say "she's just suffered enough". i may make a post on this in the future but i have been Amane Momose (12 yo girl in religious order) and like, especially after hearing purge march, i can tell you 1) she is Not going to change her mind and 2) she's shown she has a sense of balance for "punishment"? even if it's screwed up. i don't think inno amane would immediately mean somebody's (shidou mainly) life is in the line. if anything forgiveness might make her think a "second chance" is deserved if they're in an environment that has "accepted" her. and even then i feel like she's more likely to injure rather than kill for "punishment", just deliberately instead of how kotoko failed to kill the guilty ones. voting guilty won't do anything but put the already suffering unstable child through even more pain

mhm that's exactly my thought process! i don't think the writers for milgram are going to spend months setting up that we shouldn't underestimate amane but then throw their hands up and say, "well she's a kid, she can't do anything!" like, amane is not an actual, living breathing thumb-sucking child, she's a vehicle for a narrative, and said vehicle wants to stab shidou with a knife. (and i agree that she'll probably just critically injure him and that'll affect future votes since shidou can't heal them anymore.)

and like, man i don't really know why people want to play savior for these prisoners. personally, whether the prisoners feels remorse or is capable of change matters extremely little to me in the grand scheme of things. i feel like chasing character development through the guilty/inno buttons is a recipe for disaster because no one really knows how everything is going to shake up in the end. my choice is whether i forgive amane for her crime and i do. pointing fingers and accusing everyone who votes differently than you of being a terrible person is just plain annoying!

[purgemarchlockdown]

What the fuck has been going on in the Amane tag

[beddybites]

Hi, I don't know if this is something that's been addressed lately but what ships do you ship in demon slayer? /nfta

-🍵

i admittedly dont rlly care enough to ship things (something something im aroace something something im more interested in the platonic dynamics of characters) but ill try to list the ones i remember

obanai x mitsuri (PEAK LOVE THIS SHIP)

sanemi x giyuu

obanai x shinobu x mitsuri (yuri)

shinobu x mitsuri

tengen x kyojuro (im half and half w this one, i feel like they're more flirty w each other but don't end up dating or anything)

genya x kanao

tanjiro x kanao

genya x tanjiro

aka genya x tanjiro x kanao is peak

tengen and his wives (i think its adorable how much they all love each other)

kanae x masachika (i like to hc masachika was projecting onto sanemi and really he was the one who was crushing on kanae all the time. i also hc kanae gets crushes super easily and is always pretty boy crazy)

kagaya x amane (PEAK)

now for fun heres some ships i dont like:

sanemi x mitsuri

giyuu x mitsuri (i hate how the fandom characterizes it)

kyojuro x obanai / kyojuro x mitsuri (mitsuri refers to kyojuro as a big brother, and while kyojuro and obanai's familial dynamic isnt canon, it feels canon atp and would feel wrong to ship)

giyuu x shinobu (the way everyone characterizes shinobu in this makes me crazy. stop babying giyuu ill find you)

gyomei x sanemi (in general i dont like any gyomei ship for a long list of reasons)

however gyomei x kagaya or gyomei x kagaya x amane could be super cute if done right though i prefer gyomei just being besties with the two

i dont really ship muichiro with anyone either, but i can see the appeal of genmui and tanmui and support it for my oomfs sakes

all the hashira x demon ships (DONT KILL ME 😭 IM SORRY I JUST DONT FW THEM)

theres a bunch i dont like but im not about to go on a long rant over stupid fandom discourse. my philosophy is just look away and focus on what i actually like. i am 21 years old i have taxes to do