#and foreshadowing for his endgame romance

[claimedcrossbows]

Weyler Family Ties

Okay but if Weyler isn't endgame why are we having the two characters dads meet and have a whole conversation about the two of them being close??

Make it make sense.

Also I would just like to point out, that screen writers don't just throw things together for the sake of it, every scene and interaction these characters have we each other is intentional and for a purpose.

Now the reason I say that is, think about it for a second. If Wednesday and Tyler weren't fated to be together this interaction probably would've never happened, because why exactly does Gomez and Donovan need to be discussing their kids being close together when Gomez literally just got out of prison??? I mean Donovan had no real reason to mention the two of them hanging out if he didn't feel like they could actually become a couple, and in that regard he would want to talk to Gomez about that and see where he's at with it because Donovan knew he couldn't stop Tyler and Wednesday from seeing each other.

Plus Gomez's response to that being "He must be a good egg, she wouldn't tolerate anything less."

And I don't believe that it's just a statement he makes for dramatic irony, because as we the audience later finds out, He's not a good egg per se, but what if he is?

I think that line is actually MASSIVE foreshadowing that Tyler is going to get a redemption arc at the least, because Gomez is telling the audience that his daughter is smart, she has good intuition when it comes to sensing who people are, but as we later find out, she misjudges Tyler, but did she really?? Because we also find out he want controlled by Laurel and under the influence of Hyde, so who's to really say if he's a good egg or not?

Which is exactly why I took this entire scene as foreshadowing for Tyler's future, and also his future relationship with Wednesday.

Plus the parents meeting each other before Wednesday and Tyler introduces them to each other, is such a classic kind of funny romantic trope that happens a lot in romance movies, where the parents run into the other parents before the kids can introduce them and they hate each other and then they finally meet and the parents are like, "YOU'RE KID IS DATING MY KID!?" kind of moments.

ALSO

On a side note..did anyone pick up how Gomez looked at Donovan when he mentioned he had his mom to thank for how he turned out?

Why did Gomez look awe strucken by that to some degree? Did he know Francoise??

Anyway I don't think this scene was here for nothing is all I'm getting at. 🤷🏾‍♀️

[bluiela]

Proof that Gwyn X Azriel's interactions are far more than platonic and it's obvious

It’s baffling when people claim that all of Azriel and Gwyn’s interactions are strictly platonic—as if no romantic undertones or foreshadowing exist. But we do have a clear standard in the books for what platonic relationships actually look like, and a perfect example is Cassian and Emerie in A Court of Frost and Starlight (ACOFAS).

Let’s take a look at this excerpt of Cassian observing Emerie:

“Her dark hair was braided simply, offering a clear view of her tan skin and narrow, angular face. Not a face of beauty, but striking. Interesting. It reminded him of Nesta, that stare. Frank and unsettling.”

Even in this moment of observation, Cassian isn’t romantically intrigued by Emerie—he’s simply noting her features and drawing a personality parallel to Nesta.

He immediately shifts to thinking about Nesta. Emerie’s stare reminds him of Nesta’s I-Will-Slay-My-Enemies pose. Even the internal humor Cassian uses is tied to Nesta:

"I Will Eat Your Eyes for Breakfast to I Don’t Want Cassian to Know I’m Reading Smut. The latter was his particular favorite.”

That smile he suppresses? (Exactly like the unconscious smile Azriel erased induced Gwyn bright eyes and smile? Direct parallel) It’s not for Emerie—it’s for Nesta. He thinks of Nesta and smiles. This is what a platonic interaction looks like: mutual respect, recognition of strength, but no emotional depth or attraction.

Now compare this to Azriel and Gwyn.

Azriel is:Soothing her pain and lingering after she dismisses him.

Staying calm and settled in her presence—his entire demeanor changes.

Noticing and reacting to her emotionally and physically: his shadows calm around her, dance to her breath, and he erases a smile she causes—the exact parallel to Cassian suppressing a Nesta-induced smile.

Thinking about her even when she’s not there, replaying their interactions, and experiencing relief, ease, and curiosity because of her.

That’s not just friendly. That’s not just platonic.

It's an obvious romantically charged setup. Every Maas endgame couple—from Feysand to Nessian—has this layered build: mutual impact, soft gestures, subtle tension, and meaningful symbolism before any overt romance unfolds.

Azriel’s softness around Gwyn, her ability to surprise and disarm him, the fact that his shadows behave differently around her, and that he reacts emotionally to her presence—all of these are romantic foreshadowing.

People who dismiss Gwynriel as "just friends" often do so to protect their ship (usually Elriel), but they’re ignoring the very clear textual patterns Maas uses for romantic development.

When you actually compare Azriel and Gwyn’s dynamic to truly platonic pairings like Cassian and Emerie, the difference is stark. One is respectful and neutral. The other is charged, emotional, and meaningful.You don’t have to ship it.

But denying the buildup, the parallels, and the hints is not literary analysis—it’s willful bias and obtuseness. And it’s only a matter of time before the story continues to explore what’s already obvious to those who are paying attention.

[silverflameataraxia]

I apologize in advance if this post is deemed inappropriate, but I'm pretty sure Nessian is the only ship I've ever read where the male comes before the female. It's been a while, so maybe I'm misremembering, but I don't recall another SJM ship where the male comes first, nor any other romance where the male does. With every other ship, the male always makes it his top priority to make sure his woman comes first (oftentimes multiple times) before he does.

Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but it's just another example of Cassian making everything about him. Cassian focusing on himself and his needs, rather than Nesta's. He chooses and prioritizes his feelings and what he wants instead of prioritizing Nesta.

I wonder if this could be yet another moment of foreshadowing Nessian not being endgame? Or maybe I'm just thinking way too much into this.

[lovemyromance]

Genuinely people should ask themselves "Why" before coming up with non canon explanations (biased excuses) for canon events.

Walk with me 🚶🏽‍♀️

"Azriel's actions in the BC were just lust" -> why? What purpose does it serve to take a perfectly good character and depict him as a fuckboy? The theory was made to support Gwynriel (somehow), so how does depicting Azriel as an incel SERVE that narrative?

"Elain only avoids Lucien because she's desperately attracted to him" -> why? What purpose does it serve to have Elain avoid Lucien - to a greater extent than both her sisters who ACTUALLY hated their mates at first? If she's attracted to him ... is the way to show this attraction through having them literally never interact?

"Cassian's comment about Elain in black foreshadowed that Elain is miserable in the NC" -> why? Why is she miserable in the NC? Her friends and family are there and she has hobbies and friends so why is she miserable in the NC? Because Lucien's elsewhere? Well when he IS here, she avoids him anyway so that's not the answer. Why would she be miserable? Bc she's fae? Moving courts isn't going to change that fact.

"Elain can't handle Azriel's darkness" -> Why? Why does she need to? What darkness are we talking about? Are we saying she's weak and doesn't have the stomach to handle his job (which he ALSO hates), or are we ready to admit this argument is just people playing trauma-Olympics?

"Everyone is going to end up with their mates" -> Why? Is it written somewhere? SJM has plenty of non-'mated couples. SJM has already done a fake mating bond. Why does everyone have to end up with their mates?

"Azriel only wants a mate" -> Why? Why would he only be looking for a mate, and go for the woman who literally cannot be his mate? Why isn't he just waiting for the bond to click with Mor? Why does he only want a mate when he knows mating bonds are rare and unheard of? Why has that not stopped him from having lovers in the past?

Like even if you read these books and somehow.... you came to the conclusions above... none of those conclusions make sense in the context of the novel? They don't add anything to the plot. They make Azriel's character worse for no reason. They make Elain depressed and miserable and finicky, for no reason.

If you can't answer WHY a character acts a certain way - then why would an author include that in her book? Things are written a certain way for a reason.

All these excuses/"interpretations" to explain away Elriel moments have to add up to a singular explanation.

You can't just have all this disjointed reasons why Elriel doesn't work if you don't have a single reason WHY SJM would do this. Why would she build up Elriel and then destroy them in a BC? Why would she mate Elain & Lucien and have them completely indifferent to each other?

It's not like she is pushing all these takes on us AND showing us on the page how Elain is better with Lucien or Gwyn and Azriel want each other.

Because denying the Elriel romance on the page does not automatically make Elain & Lucien fall madly in love, nor does it make Azriel realize his mate is Gwyn.

Both these things could've happened without ANY Elriel interaction. So why even include it?

Maybe it's the simplest answer: Because Elriel is endgame.

[onceuponanavatar]

Rewatching The Fortuneteller, and I noticed something that I haven't really seen brought up (forgive me if it has and I missed it).

There has been much discussion over Katara's fortune of falling in love with a powerful bender, but what strikes me is the noticeable lack of important romance in Aang's fortune. Of course, a romance wouldn't necessarily be The Big Thing that Aunt Wu would care about compared to a saving-the-world battle, but it seems almost like she didn't see it at all, and just told him something to cheer him up.

If we take it for granted that Aunt Wu's predictions always seem to come true, this makes the episode much more important narratively for its foreshadowing–and as an indication that maybe Aang wasn't always the intended, without a doubt endgame for Katara.

Why do I say that? There's further evidence. Flash forward to the end of Season 2, and we now have another wise elder advising Aang. This time, Guru Pathik tells Aang straight up that he must let go of Katara to master the Avatar state. At nearly the same time, Katara is making an important emotional connection with Zuko. The Fortuneteller episode, taken into context with the end of Season 2, seems to indicate a narrative arc wherein it is important for Aang to move on from his feelings for Katara so he can win his battle, and that Katara's destiny included a romance important enough for her future that Aunt Wu emphasized it.

Had we gotten that ending in Season 3 (or a Season 4), The Fortuneteller would have, in retrospect, been a much more significant foreshadowing episode that tied beautifully into an overarching moral about one's destiny sometimes being not what you thought you wanted, but perhaps what you needed.

[elainsgirl]

These shipwars wouldn't exist if gwynriels simply understood that not every interaction is romantic just because it involves a man and a woman.

Because the amount of times I see them say "none of this would have happened if they weren't meant to be endgame!" about Gwyn and Az and it's the most platonic, bland interaction they're talking about. But they immediately assume romance because it's between a man and a woman (who isn't Elain because lets be fair, they outright ignore the blatant romance between elriel).

Not. Every. Interaction. Is. Romantic.

I’ve seen some people say, Steph a well known gwynriel and close friend to Mass, talked about how not every intereaction is romantic.

bcs, quite literally, what was so special about Gwyn and Azriels’ interactions within acosf? Unless you’re purposefully looking for it, nothing stands out. None of their interactions where unique. Az certainly showed no behavior towards Gwyns specifically. And vice versa.

Even the bonus. ONE shadow danced w her breath, genuinely, we know Sjm. If she wanted to make it romantic she could have had the shadows notice how upset gwyn was and went to her, dancing around G to make her feel happy. The singing wasn’t a song between their souls rather something Az just heard.

I think people are misunderstanding the fact that Gwyn is a singer so ofc she will have musical imagery surrounding her but its not the same as musical imagery used for mates. Whilst Gwynriels can scream about the glow & spark = mates…Az still would have to show mate behaviour which he hasn’t at all despite the opportunites to do so.

I think antis just didnt want elriel, so the next straight woman Az interacted with - they shipped him with her despite neither wanting each other. Gwynriel is a crackship, sure there may have been some people who genuinely did like whatever Gwyn x Az scenes there where in acosf but its the same as people who liked Feyre x Lucien. Nesta x Eris. Not every ship is endgame or foreshadowed. Not every ship is meant to happen.

absolutely nothing supports gwynriel and even gwynriels know this which is why they spend their times: Stealing elriel theories/aesthetic, creating fanon HCs and trying their best to disprove elriel which just shows how bad their reading comprehension is. These books are not difficult to understand.

Gwynriels find the fact Gwyn made Az chuckle “romantic” yet for them, Elain making him tilt his head back to laugh so joyously means nothing. Its just hypocrisy.

[violetasteracademic]

Hi , I want to ask if you think Lucien was always meant to have a rejected mating bond with an Archeron sister ?

Hello lovely anon!

So.... this is a tough question to answer- because where does always begin in the writing process?

Does it begin in the first draft? Does it begin in the wild prophetic visions you have at three am that you want to scribble down but you don't because you are trying to sleep, but still, it lingers? Does it begin in a beat sheet, a plot outline, a Pinterest board?

I'm not sure if SJM always intended a rejected mating bond. To be completely honest, I go back and forth. I think that Sarah has let a lot of things slip that she wrote that were never going to even be submitted to her editor on a first draft (like the famed Nesta/Cassian/Azriel batwich, RIP and I'm still waiting on SJM to write a threesome). And yet when she shares those things, people almost consider it canon and analyze it to death and use it to prove certain things. At some point, she probably really genuinely considered making Lucien and one of the sisters a couple, but I can't say for sure where in the process that died.

I remember seeing Emily Henry share on her stories recently an addition to her "RIP" character list- as in characters that she had written that literally did not even make it into the book. The first draft of Beach Read was actually a love triangle, involving some local guy who owns an ice cream business or something of the sort who is also trying to romance January. I can see what she might have been trying to do there- give January two options reflecting two sides of her. Ice Cream Steve (not sure if those details are correct but we'll go with it) would have served as a perfect foil to Grave Digging, Bleak Literary Fiction Author Gus. But ultimately, Ice Cream Steve did not even make it to the book. Do we treat him as real? Do we wonder if he may have been a better fit for January? Do we analyze what this means for January and Gus?

I'll get a little bit into the technicality of what developmental editing is and how it can completely reshape a story, erase characters, create characters, and shift their storylines, but what I do know is this- the function of Lucien being assigned an Archeron sister, any Archeron sister, is completely clear: To win him over to the Night Court as an ally and embolden him to help Feyre get away from Tamlin. This is absolutely critical. Lucien's role in the story since this hasn't developed romantically because he is mated to one of the Archeron sisters, it has spun off in a new direction plot wise with the Band of Exiles, Vassa, Koschei, and the human queens- which also develops a tentative relationship between himself and his brother Eris again, with his mating bond hovering in the background. However, his mating bond began this new direction, and it wouldn't have existed without it:

Lucien would not have left if it were not for the mating bond. I believe that is the element that was always true. Lucien's mating bond, be it with Elain, or Nesta as originally planned, was always going to be a plot device. And I can answer where I believe the story of a love triangle at the very least began its groundwork- which is A Court of Mist and Fury. I personally think that as of publishing ACOMAF Lucien and Elain were already done, fizzling out in the developmental editing process, and Azriel and Elain were endgame, but I'm open to those who see it differently.

Before we move on, here are the different types of editors:

A development editor basically edits the story at large. They focus on elements like theme, character development, plot holes, ECT. When dealing with a series, often times an author will provide a detailed packet to their developmental editor before doing dev runs. This is because the developmental editor needs to understand where the story is headed. They need to understand what needs to be appropriately foreshadowed, what themes to highlight, and keep their eye on the big picture so that everything comes to a well developed, emotionally charged, and thematically satisfying conlcusion.

What is clear to me is that Azriel and Elain were being developed emotionally and thematically in ACOMAF:

These are the types of passages that focus on the big picture. Before Feyre's sisters have become Fae, Feyre is musing on what her sisters would be like in Velaris. She thinks about how Nesta would like it, despite herself, and become fast friends with Amren (true) and how Elain would like Velaris, but she would cling to Azriel for peace and quiet. True. Feyre considers how handsome Elain and Azriel would be together if he ever stopped loving Mor.

Developmentally- what is the purpose of this? It's the same book that Lucien and Elain's mating bond is revealed, so why muse on Elain and Azriel as a couple if Azriel could get over Mor, which he now has because of Elain? Meanwhile, Elain is engaged. Feyre doesn't say a word about that. She sees how her sister would want to be with someone like Azriel, and Feyre doesn't even think twice about Graysen because Azriel is right for her sister. This isn't Feyre being an unreliable narrator. Everything else in this passage came to be true.

These are the types of moments developmental editors hone in on to make sure theme and foreshadowing are strong and successful.

Of course this is already after the beautiful moments Azriel and Elain have together- Azriel getting shy and self conscious before dropping one of the most beautiful lines in all the books about being born hearing the song of the wind. Elain already being able to read Azriel- looking to him and smiling and finding comfort and assessing his countenance to see if everything is going okay.

If I'm a developmental editor, and I wanted it to be really clear why Lucien and Elain were right for each other- why would I keep all of this in? Why tie Elain and Azriel together thematically and emotionally? So again, this is where the question "where does always begin" comes into play. Did SJM realize in her first draft that Nesta and Lucien weren't going to work, so she switched to Elain, only to realize that Elain and Lucien don't have chemistry either? Was it after a developmental edit? I can't say for sure on that end. Maybe ACOMAF truly was just setting up a love triangle, but personally I think Elain and Az were always endgame as of the books being published, and trying to explore Elain and Lucien as a couple probably died out before the final draft of ACOMAF and SJM realized Lucien still needed to be mated to one of the sisters, thus ideas about the rejected mating bond started stirring instead and then were hit HARD in ACOWAR. I can see the argument that the door was being kept open for Lucien in ACOMAF, though I personally think Lucien's mating bond reveal was strictly a plot device. But what is extremely clear is that as of ACOWAR the path was set in stone.

Again- these are the things where, not to take credit away from Sarah, a developmental editor really comes into play. If Sarah is going, okay- who is Lucien going to end up with? Nesta? No, it can't be Nesta, even though that was originally the plan. Elain? Maybe, it could be Elain. What does that look like? Maybe it was Lucien and Elain in the pitch packet. Then a developmental editor goes, okay- where are we headed? What are the themes? What are the character arcs and growth we are looking for?

Then we move on to ACOWAR, and both of them were developed to have a theme of choice threaded into their interactions:

What these moments make clear is that the mating bond makes it impossible for Elain and Lucien to get what they truly want out of love with each other- for someone to love and choose them beyond the circumstances placed on them. Lucien wants this just as much as Elain does. They are now thematically connected in that way- in wanting to be chosen above all, despite everything. That's where this Facebook comment makes soooo much sense:

Nesta didn't have any growth or healing to offer Lucien, because thematically there was not really anything there between them. Nesta and Cassian also had this instant, intense connection that could not be ignored or played slowly. Nesta also didn't lose her fiance, she herself saying she had as little at stake in Velaris as she did on the other side of the wall. Nesta had anger and resentment. Elain had loss, which on the surface could thematically match Lucien, but then we dig deeper to learn that they aren't only needing to heal from the loss of love, they are needing to heal from the loss of choice.

Elain was engaged to a man who hates fae. And Elain was always going to become Fae.

Lucien had his history and story with Jesminda since book one. He thought Jesminda was his mate. The woman who loved him for him, not because he was a High Lord's son or because of any other High Fae customs Lucien rejects. This is where you see the development. Lucien and Elain could have worked on an incredibly surface level, both of them having lost their first loves, but deeper themes revealed themselves that showed they mirror each other in a way that doesn't make them right for each other, but that allows them to face what needs to be faced: being strong and brave enough to choose for themselves instead of letting the world control them.

For Elain and Lucien to have made sense together thematically, everything should have been reversed. Elain should have been mated to Azriel, and then Elain and Lucien should have met somehow and fallen in love, and the choosing each other above all, love trumping even a mating bond, Lucien being chosen and loved without question, without hesitation, would have belonged to them.

But again, without the mating bond, Lucien and Elain wouldn't even have met in the first place and Lucien would not have left Spring. So where does that leave us? The mating bond as a plot device. It was literally required to move the story forward, but thematically is anticlimactic for both parties in terms of the kind of love they want for themselves.

So- was Lucien always going to have a mating bond rejection? Probably not. But where in the years long process did all of this reveal itself? Only Sarah knows that. But I think what is quite clear is that it was always going to happen if we start from what is published in the books between him and Elain.

I think it's very possible that SJM did really intend for Lucien to wind up with one of the sisters. But if you've ever gone through the writing process yourself, you realize pretty quickly how many things fall apart and don't work/make sense/are actually anti-thematic to the characters you've created. Maybe she'll tell us one day exactly when Elain and Lucien fell apart, just like Nesta and Lucien fell apart. But we do have to keep in mind that an author like SJM, who was able to sell a trilogy all at once, probably had to have at least a 25 page packet outlining the trilogy and it's development. So- was it Nesta and Lucien in the pitch packet? Was it Elain and Lucien, because even while structuring a pitch she realized Nesta and Lucien would never work while outlining, but thought Elain and Lucien would? Only to discover Elain and Azriel connecting while drafting ACOMAF?

Writing a book is years of plotting, outlining, writing, rewriting, editing, writing again, and sometimes what you come up with is unrecognizable from the plan. And considering SJM contracted a trilogy, she would have pitched in pretty significant detail what would happen in book two and book three. We'll see what Sarah does and does not choose to reveal!

I think that's everything! I love getting these questions from you guys. I still have a cue in my inbox, and I am sorry it's kind of random when my inspiration strikes and I have a clear answer and can quickly think of the passages and ideas! But I will try to get to my older ones that have been sitting for a minute, I promise!

What do you guys think? I know everyone has different thoughts on this and I love to hear them!

[therainscene]

I heard you were having doubts about will having powers so what do you think about the theory right now/gen

Hi anon! Thanks for calling me out on that, I've been itching for an excuse to talk about this.

Here's the thing: while the version of the powers theory I wrote up for tumblr does tie neatly into Byler, the original version was a replacement for Byler, dreamed up in my anti-Byler days. If Will wasn't going to get the romance he desperately wanted, I reasoned, then at the very least he deserved to be a cool gay wizard.

But now that I'm feeling secure in Byler endgame and have reassessed the canon, I no longer think it's necessary for him to have powers:

First and most importantly: getting rid of powers doesn't mean we're getting rid of the supernatural aspect of his queer coming-of-age story; his connection to the Mind Flayer is perfectly capable of handling that by itself.

Second: there's a nice symmetry between Will and El -- she's connected to Henry through the lab and her powers; he's connected to Vecna through the Upside Down and the Mind Flayer. Do we really need to upset this balance by giving Will redundant new abilities? Why not just develop the abilities we already know he has?

Third: there's a lack of foreshadowing. Whatever makes Will supernaturally special rarely aligns with the visual language the show uses for powers -- flickering lights, nosebleeds, etc. (Sure, there's some weirdness with the lights in S1, but we don't have confirmation of who/what caused them. And while we sometimes see lights flicker when his neck tingles, I think what's really being foreshadowed there is that someone else with powers is behind the MF.) Instead, Will is always associated with dimensional fuckery -- slipping into the Upside Down, sensing the Mind Flayer, time weirdness.

Powers do pair nicely with his wizard persona... but so does the supernatural knowledge afforded to him by the MF. And that's the angle hinted at when he's in his Will the Wise costume, as seen above. (I've talked about Will's knowledge motif before; it's like the polar opposite of my powers theory in terms of notes but I think it's a much better Byler analysis.)

Finally... revealing Will's powers and Mike's queerness in the same season would imply (whether intentionally or not) that Mr. I-Have-No-Self-Worth-Unless-I'm-Superman's-Boyfriend is only interested in Will for his powers. That's not a good fit for his character arc. What works much better is if Will is dealing with something terrifyingly different from El that would have negative consequences for Mike if he got involved... but which he chooses to risk anyway out of love for Will.

So yeah. While I'm still open to exploring ways in which powers might tie into whatever Will and the Mind Flayer have going on -- they definitely tie into whatever Henry and the Mind Flayer have going on, after all -- I'm not a Will has Powers truther anymore lol.

Right now my theory is that what we're really looking at is a time travel story, and maybe Will's connection to the MF is some sort of temporal scar from the events of S5.

[jenjenmina]

Can I just say I once thought Alberu and Rosalyn would get married. No, I do not ship them. In fact, this made me almost quit reading the novel 😭😭. I was wrong and I am so happy.

I forget specifics because it was so long ago but it was when the gang is at this library (something something bud illis and mercenaries.) Cale is finally revealing Record. I believe they were looking for more information on Ancient powers but basically Cale is hot, he's sweaty and then they call the Crown Prince.

And during the call, Alberu's thoughts go to '…and I'm never getting married'. I wrote this in my bookmarks: "You saw Cale hot and sweaty and your thoughts went to marriage??". That's not important to the point, just thought I should mention it. But the interesting thing is, during the call, even I don't remember what it was but Alberu and Rosalyn talk about something and something just clicked in my brain.

At this point, tcf to me was not that special YET and it was just another fantasy 1000+ chapter brainrot like the cultivation novels I read, so romance wasnt something I would be surprised at. Plus, I always tried to guess which characters were getting set up to be together.

Something about Alberu and Rosalyn's conversation made me IMMEDIATELY assume that they were an endgame couple. I hated that. 'THEY DO NOT LOOK GOOD TOGETHER'. It actually made me dislike them both a little as characters (I changed my mind don't worry). Especially since it didn't make sense. Rosalyn ran away from royalty to be a mage, why the hell would she be queen of Roan?

But the way they actually did look like a generic couple is what made me dislike it. They did look like a generic fantasy endgame couple but Rosalyn x Alberu doesn't make sense (sorry to any shippers out there if there are). Plus something about the way marriage was mentioned and he had that conversation with Rosalyn, it felt like it was foreshadowing something and I guess I overthought it.

I was right, it didn't make sense, why the hell was I thinking that? When I tell you I SCREAMED and rolled my eyes everytime they interacted afterwards. I still loved them but they do not belong together.

What 'confirmed' it for me was when Cale, Raon and Rosalyn and some other people go to Alberu, eat some cookies after that library thing. Alberu mentions something about his childhood and Rosalyn thinks about how lonely he must've been and how hard it probably was. I didn't get to appreciate this sweet moment cause I was like "NOOOOOOOOOOO"

I got over it as some time passed but I still believed it would happen lol. I started to get comfortable with interacting with the fandom around chapters 600+. That's when I realized Rosalberu (cute ship name tho) isn't a thing in the fandom and there's no fanfics of it. Nothing's happened in hundreds of chapters and no one is talking about them as a couple.

For 600+ chapters, I thought Rosalyn and Alberu would get married. Once again, I'm sorry if this offends the 12 people who ship this, just thought it was funny how I genuinely believed it would be canon

[elrielffs]

It's honestly so funny how the antis claim they have 4 books of foreshadowing, but most e/riel moment is what Azriel has done for other people as well,

Azriel putting his life down to save elain?

He was also ready to die Mor when he was gravely injured and in pain himself,

Azriel offering himself to help elain to the garden?

Offered himself to Feyre to her learn how to fly. And bonus points gave her salve when the training caused her pain.

Azriel laughing? I am sorry Gwyn made him laugh and smile more in one chapter than 4 books combined,

Him having sexual thoughts? He also had them for Mor,

The Azriel potato helping and wait for elain to come scene is literally just followed by Rhys telling Feyre how his mother was mistreated as a reasoning for his actions,

Elain calling his hands pretty and making him blush? Nesta made him blush by hugging him.

So, like is he also the endgame for Mor, Nesta, Feyre and Gwyn?

If you can't pick up on the emotional weight, romantic words and images used in these scenes, or the fact that there are numerous scenes between Elain and Azriel for a reason then I can't help you.

Also, it's very telling ya'll think that a man and woman can't interact without it being about romance which is the Gwynriel ship in a nutshell. Azriel can be a nice person to other women (and not the fuccboi ya'll try to label him as) and be into Elain at the same time. It all comes down to how the scene is worded and described, the actions within, and the way the characters react.

By ya'lls logic, let's invalidate every ship and couple ever.

If you think Elriel is platonic then look to the Elriel BC where they are explicitly not. (I see the they are best buds thing going around again, gotta call up all my guy friends to see if they want to eat me out. As friends.)

I swear ya'll need to the ACOTAR books to be written like this to understand:

College degree to read these books?? How about a 2nd grade reading level??

Azriel sees Elain.

Azriel likes Elain.

Azriel does nice things for Elain.

Elain sees Azriel.

Elain likes Azriel.

Elain does nice things for Azriel.

Elain and Azriel have feelings for each other.

Elain and Azriel want to fuck.

No amount of trying to invalidate their scenes is gonna make it go away, sorry.

[acourtofthought]

I don't know if I'm being petty, but I like to think that some of Elain's actions toward Azriel are just foreshadowing for Elucien's dynamic. For example, Lucien is very thoughtful about his choices for Elain's gifts, and Elain is invested in the presents she gives to others, including Azriel, even if it's in the form of a prank. This makes me think that receiving gifts will be one of their main love languages.

The scene where Elain called Azriel's scars beautiful could mean that if Lucien still holds any insecurities regarding his scars, it'd be no problem at all for his mate to help him realize how gorgeous he is, inside and out.

And, most of all, the theme of choice would fit so much better in an Elucien romance. I mean, Azriel isn't the one banned from two courts, prohibited to see his mother, exiled in a strange land, the one who has only two humans (who will die in a few decades compared to a fae immortal life) as his only friends, and he's definitely not the one being ignored by his mate and fearful of her rejection. If there's a character who deserves (plot-wise) to be chosen, it's definitely Lucien.

Besides, it would make so much sense with Elain's and Lucien's characters and with the development of their relationship. The fact that Lucien respects her time and space (or his passivity, as some like to call it) allows Elain to make the choice of pursuing the bond when she feels comfortable and secure enough. She'd also have more agency than her sisters in the beginning of their relationships.

But these are just thoughts.

Thank you for your blog and your theories and thoughts. You make me feel hopeful not only for an Elucien's endgame, but also that they really have the chance to get the next book. You have been a light in the end of this three-years-length tunnel.

P.S. I also have a guess that the announcement will be on May 1st. Hope we are right!

Also, the scene where Elain called Az's scars pretty could actually have been Elain calling his siphons pretty because Feyre wasn't sure what she was looking at.

However, I do agree that Elain is going to find Lucien's face devastatingly handsome and the reason for that kind of ties into her mother. Which sounds weird but I'll try to explain.

Her mother made assumptions about her, that she did not dream beyond her pretty dresses and gardens and that she would marry for love and "beauty". So of course, Elain tried to follow those expectations, getting engaged to exactly who her mother would have imagined for her.

I know Elain loved Graysen and probably found him handsome but he seems cookie cutter. Even Feyre said, he was sort of the human ideal of a lord come to sweep a maiden off her feet.

Lucien's face isn't perfect. He's handsome no doubt but he has long hair (no proper mother would approve of that), a scar running down his face and his eye. He is not the image of a baby faced Lord set to inherit his fathers estate someday. He's cruelly beautiful and looks dangerous and, we're all human here, that's going to thrill the "good girls" which everyone assumes Elain to be. Graysen is the kind of guy you have missionary sex with while the lights are out. Lucien is the kind of guy you are willing to do anything, anywhere with and that's probably a bit overwhelming for Elain given her upbringing. Right now, she's still stuck in the past, how she was raised, the kind of guy her mother proclaimed she would marry rather than embracing what lights her up like a pinball machine but I have no doubt once she does break free she's going to make sure he knows exactly how appealing she finds him because of the scars, the hair, the eye. Because of how it all comes together.

And I agree regarding the gifts! I think we see bits of Elain's personality around members of the IC but she never fully blooms, it's like a quick flash then it's gone. I could see Elain and Lucien teasing one another on regular days, silly gifts, sweet little gifts, but the important days I think will be when they reserve the really thoughtful, heartfelt gifts for.

With choice, I wonder if it's so much about that as fight.

(that sounds weird too but I wasn't sure how to word it).

What I mean by that is Lucien was chosen by Jesminda. He was chosen by Tamlin. He was chosen by many friends of which we're told he has many. He was chosen by the LoA as her favorite son. The problem is nobody fought to keep him.

The same with Elain. She was chosen by Graysen, she was "chosen" by Azriel, she was chosen by the chef and servants who wanted to do nice things for her, she was chosen by her many friends. But, none of them fought for her either. When things got hard they walked away.

Lucien and Elain are parallel in that they're just accepting life as it happens to them, trying to accept that when one door closes (to their dismay) and another opens, they roll with it even if they're not happy. They haven't learned to fight for themselves, possibly because they are used to not being fought for and as a result they try not to ask for much because they realize how expendable they are to others.

But in their book, I think they'll push past that to fight for what they do want and they will fight for one another. Lucien has been doing that so far when it comes to Elain. He is the one person who despite the odds did not walk away from her. Graysen gave up after Elain was turned. Az gave up easily, moved right onto feeling calm because of another female, admiring another female, thinking of another females eyes light up, even though Elain was probably upset after his rejection for the simple fact that any rejection hurts. But Lucien though he hasn't pushed her, has quietly fought for her for two years, by showing that he is still loyal to her and only her. And I imagine we'll also see Elain begin to fight for Lucien. Fighting against those who have wronged him, fighting for him to understand that he's not guilty for Jesminda's death or what happened to Feyre, etc.

Your last paragraph before the P.S. (May 1, May 1!!!) was so incredibly sweet and I wish I had better words to thank you for it.

I hope you have a fantastic day and I appreciate your message!

[bluiela]

friendly reminder

The e/riel Near-Kiss is a Narrative Wake-Up Call, not romantic foreshadowing:

Azriel was spiraling. His POV in the bonus chapter is not romantic—it’s self-destructive. He’s thinking for Elain because she’s forbidden, just like Mor was. Rhys calls him out explicitly:

Rhysand blinked. "What of Mor, Az?" Azriel ignored the question. "The Cauldron chose three sisters. Tell me how it's possible that my two brothers are with two of those sisters, yet the third was given to another." He had never before dared speak the words aloud. Rhys's face drained of color. "You believe you deserve to be her mate?" Azriel scowled. "I think Lucien will never be good enough for her, and she has no interest in him, anyway." "So you'll what?" Rhys's voice was pure ice. "Seduce her away from him?" Azriel said nothing. He hadn't gotten that far with his planning, certainly not beyond the fantasies he pleasured himself to.

This isn’t about romance—it’s about Azriel’s unresolved trauma (feeling unworthy, chasing what he can’t have). Mor rejected him. He kept on yearning and longing for her but got hurt again and again. Then even after pining for 500+ years he is still hurt when his two brothers are happily mated to two sisters. Now he thinks that Elain should've been his mate, right? he thinks he'll finally have a happy ending when third sister ends with third brother, right? but his feelings and thoughts give away the OBVIOUS. HE TRUELY DOESN'T LOVE HER. He even admits that he hasn't even planned for her beyond sexual fantasies and has NO emotional feeling for her. But has actual emotional feeling for his actual endgame Gwyn.

Elain was vulnerable. She’s reeling from Graysen’s rejection and Lucien’s bond. She wasn’t kissing Azriel because she loves him—she was kissing him because she’s lost. And that is literally the most natural thing ever and solidified by Maas writing Mor telling Feyre that BOTH elain and Lucien aren't ready to explore the bond. But the narrative makes it obvious they'll end together.

The only obvious choice is gwynriel and elucien.

[utilitycaster]

As a Mighty Nein lover, is there anything you want out of the animated series in particular that perhaps wasn't seen or was unemphasized in the improv of the game when obviously no one was aware what paths we'd go down/what would become important later? Any moments you wonder how they'll portray *without* the framework of the dnd game?

I also generally wonder if m9 shipass discourse/whatever weird entitlement ppl had to the official character designs not fitting their headcanons will end up reviving, but largely i feel like the ppl who were stupid about that kind of thing hated the backhalf of c2 so soundly that it would take a deep delusion that "no for sure they'll change the plot" or a true self hatred for them to watch the animation, and ppl coming in WITH the animation likely are going to grab the telegraphed relationships much more soundly since they understand it as Written. (Please tell me if I'm wrong bc I only picked up m9 maybe in the ep50 mark and got involved in fandom spaces much later, but I feel like the weird piss of the fandom got intolerably bad mostly after the covid hiatus? Where ppl had no content for months and created an echo chamber of headcanon while forgetting that the campaign was about anything. This might still happen between animated series seasons but I think people cannot complain anymore that the source material is source material-ing.)

Hi anon,

I don't have any specific wishes. I'm excited that we'll see a little bit from before the campaign, as the Fjord and Jester animatic indicates; would love to see that for Veth and Caleb, and Molly and Yasha as well. Otherwise off the top of my head there isn't really much that we didn't see I really feel the need to see? I like the Briarwoods flashback in TLOVM but there's not a ton in C2 that benefits from turning the camera onto NPCs like that, for example. Maybe a brief Avantika and Vandran moment? Perhaps Essek stealing the beacon? But honestly one of the remarkable things about C2 was that there were so many weird happy coincidences that it accidentally had a lot of foreshadowing you could not have planned.

I've said this a bunch about C3 and some of the ongoing conversations about the gods before but it's relevant here as well: I generally assume that in a fandom space, there will be discourse. There is nothing so clear and obviously telegraphed that someone who's decided to stick their fingers in their ears and harden their heart and turn off their brain cannot ignore or disregard. There are still, to this day, after Fjord and Jester failed to break up in episode 141, the Mighty Nein Reunited, or Echoes of the Solstice and in fact got engaged, and Beau and Yasha are married and Caleb and Essek refer to each other as partners, people who insist that Caleb or Beau and Jester were "supposed" to be endgame but for (unstated nebulous cause that they will not deign to describe because if they do so, there are pretty obvious holes one could poke in it) and I think it's been pretty clearly signaled. People thought that TLOVM would have a Vex and Keyleth romance because of a single frame when they were next to each other. You could have the entire Critical Role cast on camera go "here are the endgame relationships" and someone would be like "well, but what if that was a bluff." I think there might be less discourse among new fans but I do not think there will be none.

For what it's worth, while I do think C2 ship discourse was pretty awful and was exacerbated by a combination echo chamber and the general mood of 2020 and early 2021, I think C3 discourse is, while perhaps less harassment-focused, in much more bad faith. Like, ship discourse can get nasty and awful, don't get me wrong, but I feel like most people involved were either reading things that weren't there specifically about ships but were pretty reasonable about the plot (at least not until very, very late in the game) and I feel like they were genuine fans of Critical Role and had a decent sense of the world and the lore and just. went absolutely nuts and started sending harassment because their blorbos did not kiss and/or get resurrected. Whereas I feel like the worst of C3 discourse involves people who came in with little understanding of D&D nor the world and frankly a decent amount of derision towards everything that came before, proceeded to show up in a clown wig screaming "LISTEN UP FIVES, A TEN IS SPEAKING", promptly shit themselves and started crying, and now are not just wondering why few people like them or taking them seriously but are also throwing out whatever random-ass accusations they think will stick as they sit in the detritus of their increasingly incorrect predictions.

Anyway this is all to say whenever someone is like "surely this revision will prevent fans from interpreting art in a stupid way" my response is "I believe that some people are innovating in the field of stupid interpretations; do what makes you happy and acknowledge that they will always exist."

also, while i'm running my mouth before i go run errands, this is just a blanket statement re character designs and headcanons. (the "you" here is obviously not at anon, but rather the people they described). If you wish a character looked different than their canonical depiction, great. No one is stopping you. If you think canon exists to validate your headcanons, it doesn't. If you think people online saying "I don't like a headcanon" is stopping you from doing anything, it isn't. If you pitch fits about either of those things, you are a self-absorbed child. And if you are really attached to all of your diverse headcanons and yet never seem to gravitate towards characters who are canonically portrayed with those same identities, a whole lot of people are side-eyeing you.

[lovemyromance]

(Not a troll ask please don't shoot :D - genuine question)

But I feel like it's really downplayed how much Gwynriels gaslight the fandom. I joined ACOTAR bc I saw Gwynriel fanart and thought they were cute. I Got all the way to ACOSF still hoping for Gwynriel and got a whole lot of NOTHING. And honestly I think Elain is as interesting as cardboard (sorry), but you'd have to be downright blind to ignore she had something going on with Azriel.

Then I saw on titktok about the bonus chapter, everyone going in saying omg thats where gwyn & az are mates! So I cracked it open, read it - and bruh - HE'S OUT HERE TRYING TO GO DOWN ON ELAIN??

How can you put THAT interaction & the conversation he had with Gwyn side by side and people are walking away from it saying Gwyn & Azriel are mates?

I'm so genuinely confused why someone would start that nonsense. The way I ate up Gwynriel art/fan theories it was like she was a major character there from the start and they'd already had 8 kids and a HEA.

Then I open the books and they barely even have a conversation??

It was honestly really annoying. felt like a scam, like one of those authors peddling their book on social media and then you realize its a wattpadd fic written by a 12 yr old not an actual book

If it helps - we're all confused. Nothing has been proven yet about any remaining couple so idk why the Elucien and Gwynriels are out here straight up inventing fiction and trying to pass it off as fact to anyone willing (and even unwilling) to listen.

This ship war could've just been - "Hey I like Elucien more!" Or "I love elriel!"

But instead of just accepting these are all opinions and not actually what is in the books - people decided to straight up gaslight and claim that Elucien are a couple and Gwynriel are mates.

If you cannot point to it on the page where such a thing it explicitly happened - then it is not canon.

Lucien & Elain? They're mates. That's canon.

What's also canon - is that not all mates are a good pairing and end up happy together.

Whats also canon - is that the cauldron was wrong.

It shouldn't be hard to reach accurate conclusions if people stopped treating their wants and headcanons as fact.

Like for gods sake - let's just look at fanart. I'm not saying that every piece of fanart is canon or even should be canon - but elriel has much more canon fanart. Thats literally a fact. They have multiple major moments together - on the page.

What is canon Elucien fanart? When she falls out the cauldron - naked and humiliated and he gives her his cloak? When they sit together over a tea service acting uncomfortable? When she avoids him every other time she sees him?

What is canon Gwynriel fanart? When he gives her boss a secondhand necklace to give to her or anyone else? When he - and cassian and everyone else - watch her cut a ribbon she sees as an enemy?

I've seen so many people open up these books expecting some grand romance between Elain & Lucien and end up disappointed because... she doesn't even want to be in the same room as him.

So many Gwynriels with similar stories to yours expecting some entertaining Gwynriel love story only to also end up disappointed because Gwyn doesn't even exist till the last book and she and Azriel barely interact.

They chose to believe in a nonexistent ship and are trying to compete with canon Elriel evidence. Like ok - tough shit? But you can't just start making shit up.

Until Elain accepts that bond - or even gives Lucien the time of day - they're not a couple. They are nowhere close to endgame if everything she has done and said has shown us she doesn't want him.

Until Azriel himself declares Gwyn is his mate or vice versa - they're not mates.

And yeah I'm gonna get a lot of backlash from the "foreshadowing and crumbs" crowd.

But let me ask you this:

There are some Elriels who think the mating bond between Lucien & Elain is fake. There is plenty of evidence and similar language used about their bond that resembles the fake Rowan & Lyria bond. Plenty of signs showing their bond isn't quite right.

do you think Elriels can then claim it's canon that the Elucien bond is fake?

"We have crumbs and foreshadowing and similar language used" too. But do you see us going around claiming it's canon?

No.

We are very clear about the distinction between canon and headcanons. About what's in the books, and what is just pure guesswork and theory.

"Sparky spark" and "elucien is endgame" are both theories until proven. They are NOT canon.

Wish they'd just learn the difference. They'd be a lot less unhappy fans.

[lady-embers]

A certain phrase is used in a Contemporary RH book I am reading as the MFC and one of the MMC talk...

Now...where have we heard this similar phrasing used?

Oh, that's right. Azriel's Bonus Chapter. When he's interacting with Gwyn.

Azriel dipped his head in a sketch of a bow, something restless settling in him. Even his shadows had calmed. As if content to lounge on his shoulders and watch.

Clearly, something settling within the male love interests is a good indicator. It's used across all genres of romance books in endgame couples.

It's only plausible to believe this phrasing was used intentionally by Sarah. To begin to hint/Foreshadow Gwyn is Azriel endgame.

[elainsgirl]

i absolutely don’t believe this will happen, but let’s say hypothetically maas throws all three books of elriel build up and foreshadowing down the drain and makes elucien canon (i’ll be generous for the antis and add gwynriel in this fantasy too). you know what that will mean? that maas is a bad author. point blank. you don’t write all these intricate things that very obviously points to one thing and then suddenly pivot to something else after one book. but the thing is, maas in not a bad writer. she just unfortunately has a lot of readers who completely misunderstand the story she is trying to tell. which is a shame

EXACTLY.

What author introduces a supposed love interest so late into the series, in fact in a spinoff? That too, doesn’t even make them offical love interests? What author would have the male character ready to beg on his knees for one woman, only to end up with someone he wouldn’t consider a friend? Even for elucien - look at what Mass has wrote about them. “What if the cauldron was wrong?” “I cringed at the thought of them” “she was nothing like Jesminda” “I dont want a mate” “she shrank back, losing her new found boldness” Elain not even using or admiring Luciens gifts, ready to kiss another man without hesitation despite her mate being up stairs.

Elucien and Gwynriel have the worst build ups ever. So many people who haven’t even read the bonus, aka hundreds of thousands of readers, would be so confused about why you now have a book starring Az and Nesta’s friend when he was in acosf sharing charged glances with Elain and following the sound of her laugh. As for Elucien, its like, just why. Why would Sjm have questioned eluciens bond? Why have Feyre wonder why elriel aren’t mates? Why didn’t she give Elucien an imagery like she did w Vassien and Elriel. Its just so unnecessarily complicated and confusing- It doesn’t seem like Sjm,

Sjm who plans in advance, if Gwynriel was always meant to be - you’d think she would’ve set them up a lot sooner. If elucien was always endgame - what was the point of elriel ? Its just a useless complication. Elucien had angst without elriel being added, that Mass could have built on. She didn’t.

Unfortunately, Sjm has readers that are too biased to accept what she is planning. Readers that quite frankly- are expecting a LOT from her when in the end - Sjm follows the easy path. I dont think - romance wise - she’s into plottwists or things that would require a lot of retconning anymore, especially for ACOTAR.