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Year in Review 2024

AND WE'RE BACK!

Come join Ben, NiNi, and Shan as we talk about the trends we noticed, air some grievances, hand out some of our favorite fan awards, and make some new resolutions!

Timestamps

The timestamps will now correspond with chapters on Spotify for easier navigation.

00:00:00 - Welcome 00:00:55 - 2024 Headlines: Industry Consolidation 00:06:49 - 2024 Headline: Self-Censorship 00:13:52 - 2024 Headlines: Vertical Format Micro-BLs and Other Shit We're Anti 00:20:14 - Festivus Airing Of The Grievances 00:36:51 - 2024 Fan Awards 00:55:49 - QL Resolutions 01:04:45 - Affirmations and Hopes for the Future

The Conversation Transcripts!

Thanks to the continued efforts of @lurkingshan as an editor and proofreader, we are able to bring you transcripts of the episodes.

We will endeavor to make the transcripts available when the episodes launch, and it is our goal to make them available for past episodes (Coming soon thanks to @wen-kexing-apologist). When transcripts are available, we will attach them to the episode post (like this one) and put the transcript behind a Read More cut to cut down on scrolling.

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00:00 - Welcome

NiNi

Welcome to The Conversation, the Queer Media And Brown Liquor Podcast.

Ben

I'm Ben, the media critic

NiNi

I’m NiNi, the vibes queen

Ben

And we are your drunk Caribbean uncle and auntie who are sitting on the porch in the rocking chairs

NiNi

We’re here to talk queer film and dramas, with a special focus on Asian QL

Ben

So if you like to dive deep into queer stories…

NiNi

If you like cracked out takes on art and commerce in queer media…

Ben

If you just enjoy simping for attractive people…

NiNi

We believe in simping!

Ben

Tune in!

00:00:55 - 2024 Headlines: Industry Consolidation

Ben

And we're back. Oh my God, it's time to review 2024 before we get to the VIIB Awards, where it's just nonstop us talking about our faves. Once again, we have brought Shan into the booth because we have too much to discuss. Shan, say hello.

Shan

Hello!

Ben

First, it's time for us to talk about the big ideas of the year. NiNi, as the person who loves Thai BL the most on The Conversation, let's talk about how clearly the money is drying up and everybody is having to shuffle to whoever's got something to offer them.

NiNi

Is the money drying up or is it just being funneled all to the same place? Because it feels like more money is getting spent on fewer things. I don't think that's necessarily a good thing, but I'm not sure that I can put my finger up and say that's a bad thing, either. We have seen some definite dips in quality. We don't have as many faves this year as we did last year, or even the year before. But what we did love, we loved-loved.

So it's a complicated picture, I guess, but definitely there's been a consolidation and we wanted to talk about it a little bit because we predicted this in our very first set of episodes, all those many, many, many moons ago. We predicted that there was a consolidation coming in Thai BL because everything just got so big, so fast, and that usually precedes everything's starting to shrink back down a little bit.

Ben

Big things we noted this year was GMMTV absorbing a bunch of free agents and, in one case, basically the entire staff of a whole studio that they now hire to do production work for them.

Shan

Mmhmm. It's been wild. Like every week, I feel like we've been seeing announcements of new talent acquired by GMMTV.

Ben

Barcode is now at GMMTV.

NiNi

That was a big get.

Shan

All the Wabi Sabi boys this year, too.

NiNi

Yeah, those were the two big headlines, Wabi Sabi getting folded into GMMTV was one and definitely Barcode coming right at the end of the year. That was a big one.

Shan

They also got Dimple Fluke.

NiNi

I mean, we love Dimple Fluke, but I don't know how big Dimple Fluke is in the general fandom—

Shan

—He's big in my heart, NiNi, big in my heart.

Ben

[laughs] We thought this was coming when they got Singto to come back. Clearly trying to do it on his own didn't work and they were able to get him back in their house. I don't know how I feel about it. Wabi Sabi is no longer doing talent management. BOC seems to be shrinking

NiNi

BOC (Be On Cloud) has said that they're backing off of talent management, as well. They dropped most of their roster. I think they only represent Mile, Appo, and Bible now.

Ben

Wow.

Shan

GMMTV is the big studio that seems to want to be in the idol management game. And so that's where a lot of the talent is going. What feels concerning about it to me—we've talked quite a lot on this podcast about the increase in output, but not a commensurate increase in quality from GMMTV.

Out of all of the BLs that they're putting out annually, which is around eight to 10, there may be only a couple that actually have really good scripts behind them. So they're acquiring all this talent, but we know they don't have enough good writing to support shows to support this much talent. They put out, this year, a script writing contest to the plebes to say, “Help us, we need help writing shows.”

NiNi

I was just gonna bring that up.

Ben

With hostile as fuck language, by the way.

Shan

They literally went to the fans and said, “Can you write us some shows? Because we got nothing and we're acquiring all this talent.” That's just on the BL side. They've got this whole side of the house of these great, talented actresses and very few projects to cast them in. So it's concerning to me to see all the talent going to this one place that clearly cannot handle everybody that they're taking on.

Ben

It worries me too, because we've noticed a lot less sponsorship deals in most of their shows. One or two shows per year will get the usual eight- to 10-plus sponsor cards at the beginning, but that number has dropped off overall. It's very clear that there's maybe not as much ad money helping fund the production in the first place.

NiNi

Bestie, I haven't seen an Oishii ad in quite some time.

Shan

Right, where did Oishii go?

Ben

If the juice makers have given up, it's over.

NiNi

It is concerning to see this consolidation happening. There's a few people who are out on their own, who I think might be able to survive on their own. Like Jeff is out on his own, Billkin and PP are out on their own, and they're probably the ones who can sustain. Everybody else is either going to GMMTV or they're getting into the other side of GMM Grammy, like the One31 kind of lakorn side. But even that is shrinking, we're given to understand, people are moving into BL because that's the growing side of the market.

Actors are moving into BL who might not have done BL before. Big names got into BL this year, like Jes Jespipat did 4 Minutes with Bible, a Be On Cloud production. He's a big lakorn actor. And then JJ and Tor did Spare Me Your Mercy at the end of the year. The headline on that really is like these big lakorn actors who nobody would have ever expected to do gay shit are doing the—well, in the case of Spare Me Your Mercy, semi gay shit. But Jes did gay gay shit in 4 Minutes, you know what I mean? So that's one of the big, I think, headlines that we need to be looking at looking at Thai BL in particular going forward.

00:06:49 - 2024 Headlines: Self-Censorship

Ben

We need to talk about Thai BL starting to self-censor, likely to reach specific markets.

Shan

Yeah, it's concerning. I wouldn't call it a trend yet, but we've seen a few examples of it in the last few months and it's making me nervous. What I'm talking about is, productions that are publicly saying, admitting that they are censoring some of the more explicit romantic or sexual content from their BL shows so that they can focus on reaching a wider audience with their message. We've seen statements like that from the Addicted Heroin creator. We've seen recently the screenwriter of Spare Me Your Mercy talk about the decision to remove explicit sexual content from the show for the same reason. We saw some of this related to Love Sick as well. If you're gonna do a Love Sick remake in 2024, the one thing you would expect them to improve on is not having censored kisses, but nope, they didn't do that.

So there's this drive and this stated intention by some of the creators behind these shows to create BL dramas that minimize the actual BL as much as possible. They want to take advantage of the market for BL. They want to take advantage of the fan interest and the fan engagement for BL while also getting away with keeping the actual queer romance in these stories as minimal as possible. That is pretty shitty. They're coming out and they're saying this openly, this is not us just guessing.

NiNi

Just saying that taking the romance out is why I left a lot of Western media. I'm so tired of seeing people say things like, “Well this doesn't have any plot.” The romance is the plot, the relationship is the plot and not recognizing that in a genre that is about romance is the part that kind of makes me go like mmm, okay, like yes—

Ben

The genre is literally called Boy Love. (all) Where is the love?

How old is that song? Hold on, let me Google that real quick.

Shan

Don't look it up. But this is what I mean. Like, NiNi and I are refugees from Western romance. We came over to Asia for kdrama, because we wanted to see a genre of television that respected romance, that took it seriously as its own storytelling, that actually respected romance fans and people who like love stories. That is one of the best and most consistent features of Asian drama. And so to have now this subset of Asian drama creators who are specifically working in a queer love space that is even more hard for people to find, even less accepted by the mainstream, to have them intentionally self-censoring because they are trying to prove some kind of weird point. It just completely misses the point for me of why people are here engaging with these dramas. Certainly it doesn't seem to be helping in terms of pushing forward the social agenda in these countries where they're making these shows.

Ben

This is the part that always stresses me out when we're trying to measure how gay can it be and still get funded because this happens to us repeatedly in queer viewer space. Netflix pulled this shit on us where, when they first wanted to go to digital streaming, they set up deals with all of the gay distribution houses. And we got to watch all of these movies that we had never had access to before. And it was great. And we all were like, hell yeah, I'm going to go on Netflix so can watch my little gay shows.

As soon as they get tastemakers—read: queer and brown people—to pimp their shit, they try and immediately convert and get a bunch of normies in there.

NiNi

Yep, that's basically what happens.

Ben

This, again, this is not shit I'm making up! This is what really happened.

Shan

These are the patterns and we've seen them play out so many times in so many places and it's the pattern we're starting to see play out in BL and it's alarming.

NiNi

I mean! It played out on Tumblr. The platform that we spend so much of our time on, this is exactly what happened. The people who built the ship got kicked out of the ship.

Ben

It's been an actually horrible year on Tumblr for queer people, especially trans people. It's a bad look that the gays who make the shit who seem like they're in an accepted enough space are either choosing to or being pressured to straighten up their act so that they can continue to get fed and make stuff. That doesn't feel great. It feels really worrisome as a sign about what may or may not be going on. Like it's only a few things right now, but we're seeing this everywhere else.

NiNi

What we're basically saying is support GagaOOLala

Shan

Please! If you're gonna spend money on any of these platforms, spend your money on the queer platform hosted in Taiwan that actually cares about queer people.

Ben

If you have spent significant sums of money on iQIYI in the last year for two shows and you haven't spent money on Gaga, reflect and then message us. [all laugh]

NiNi

And I mean if you need yet another reason to subscribe to Gaga, their social media manager is like the greatest person in the world.

Ben

They're my favorite person. They made fun of Kidnap. They were like, Kidnap, the show that's probably poorly named, is back on this week.

Shan

Let's just get on our soapbox about Gaga for a minute, okay? They are the only platform that streams the vast majority of Japanese QL, period. They bring us Taiwanese BL. They bring us Thai BL in increasing volume.

Ben

The WeTV shows have been consistently airing on Gaga lately. GMMTV is also clearly trying to consolidate and are starting to put their shows behind the Gaga and iQIYI paywall.

Shan

It's a good platform that is worth supporting and it's far cheaper than any other streaming you're paying for. You should have it. You should subscribe.

NiNi

This is not an ad.

Ben

They do. We are not being paid. But if you guys want to hang out—I'm just kidding. Don't put that in there, NiNi. [laughs]

NiNi

Yeah, but yeah, support Gaga. That's the only platform that when Park Seo Ham came out of the military, sent out a tweet saying, “Tell the world the bitch is back.”

Ben

I love her!

Shan

They deserve it.

NiNi

She is us, we are her, and this is a non-binary she. We don't know the gender of the GagaOOLala social media manager, but she's one of the girls.

Ben

I'm using ‘she’ in a gay way. It's very affectionate.

NiNi

She, non-gender specific.

00:13:52 - 2024 Headlines: Vertical Format Micro-BLs and Other Shit We're Anti

Ben

While we're bitching about things, let's talk about all these stupid vertical TV shows that keep coming out and how we must continue to refuse to watch them. We have already seen one of the shows that [Iijima] was in is going to apparently be put on TV properly.

Good job, everybody, in not watching that. [NiNi and Shan laugh]

Do not let this become a thing. We cannot tell them that we are willing to watch shows two minutes at a time on our phones only. Unacceptable.

Shan

Not only two minutes at a time on our phones only, but only after burning through a huge number of ads. That's how you get to the shows.

Ben

Gross.

NiNi

This is like Ben's whole conversation in one of our more recent episodes about the BL TikTok filter. They're trying to get you used to the BL TikTok filter in like a million ways.

Ben

I won't. I will NOT accept this!

Shan

Because the aim of this is to stop making actual dramas and just get us to watch a version of TikTok on our phones and call that BL. That's the end game here, guys. Don't fall for it.

NiNi

Do not fall for it.

Ben

We are here to support storytellers only. We are not here to make ad guys happy.

NiNi

I think that's a good segue.

Ben

Speaking of ad guys who clearly don't like us, Korea is not interested in BL right now. [laughs]

NiNi

Oh my God.

Ben

We got three good Korean BLs this year.

Shan

At least they were all excellent. I know we talked about it on our recent Hallyu episode but now that the year is complete and the data has been crunched, I just want to underline this. We got, not necessarily fewer shows total from Korea, but we got fewer shows of a decent length. We got fewer shows of quality. A lot of what Korea put out this year was junk, frankly. These little vertical series, these small little web series that are really short episodes and very lacking in narrative. And then they also put out three of the very best things of the year.

So it was a real dichotomy. In years previous Korea was putting out a more steady run of quality shows. We saw a real drop off of that this year.

Ben

Oh shit, did Strongberry even make anything this year?

NiNi

I was just about to say this is the year that Strongberry pissed me off because they made that Happy Ending thing that was neither happy nor an ending.

Shan

And they made Blossom Campus, which was terrible.

Ben

Ew…

Shan

Strongberry let us down this year for the first time ever.

NiNi

I kind of feel it for them because the CEO of Strongberry has spent so much time telling us how hard it is to get shit made and to get money to get shit made. So I was just like, ooh, things must be getting, like, real rough if they couldn't put out anything good.

Shan

Can we though just take a moment to shout out the CEO of Strongberry for putting out his own little story about what happened with that show and basically being like, I told the writer not to fucking do that and he didn't listen to me.

Ben

I did love that. I love that he just said, I told her she ain't let one listen.

Shan

He was like, this is not on me. Do not associate this with me. You love Strongberry. You will continue to love Strongberry. [NiNi laughs]

Ben

He basically did say it like that. We were like, all right, girl. [laughs]

Shan

We'll let you have this one.

NiNi

Yeah, but I mean it's a year in which we had nothing good from Strongberry, and that to me is like, wow. We got other really good stuff, some of it came out of absolutely nowhere. And I think that it had to come out of absolutely nowhere to get aired, because, as we saw when things are in the pipeline and they know about it, they're going to try to kill it.

Ben

Our last big highlight of the year we want to point out is that there was a Japanese BL airing almost every week this year. That is unprecedented. Usually, even if stuff gets made, we barely know about it, it gets no distribution, and the fansubbers are having people show up at their houses over. [NiNi laughs]

So we almost never get a lot of the Japanese BL, but there was a significant amount that was just handed to us on legal platforms for us to support, most notably GagaOOLala.

Shan

GagaOOLala! I started Japanese QL Corner in January of 2024 on Tumblr. It's just a weekly post that I do that tracks the Japanese QL that's out. And I had things to write about every single week for the entire year. And we weren't always having to chase things down in the dark corners of the internet. We had things that we could watch on a regular streaming platform every week from Japan, And there were weeks when I was writing about six or seven shows at a time. That's how much was airing.

NiNi

Now were those six or seven shows great?

Ben

Not always.

NiNi

I would say no, not always, but in terms of batting average, I think Japan did pretty well this year.

Shan

I'd say still about half of the shows that aired from Japan this year were good to fantastic. And the other half were problematic here and there. There were only a handful that I thought were, like, bad bad.

Ben

My favorite thing about watching Japanese BL is that I am never mid about it. I either really liked it or I was like, who is this for? [Shan and NiNi laugh]

I love that there's not all this wishy washy shit about like, oh, maybe it's kind of okay if I squint this direction. I'd be like, no, fuck that show. A 4 for you, a 3 for you, a 4 for you. Stay away from the shows I love. All of you over here, my 9s and 10s. Don't look at them. They're not worth it. Averages are not the most useful metric but I really like that when I'm recommending or not recommending Japanese BL, I feel very firm about how I feel about these shows.

Shan

I do think that there has been a lot more variation in quality with the high uptick in volume of shows. But the batting average is still pretty damn high.

We've got two new Japanese QL productions starting this week. So I'm excited that it's gonna keep going.

Ben

That's it for the big highlights.

00:20:14 - Festivus Airing Of The Grievances

Ben

Before we close out this year, we need to vent a little bit of grief. We need to talk about the things that we were super hype about that made us look like clowns. We're gonna start with our biggest disappointments in no particular order. Starting with the worst.

NiNi, Wandee Gooday!

NiNi

[laughs] The absolute worst. I am so pissed off at this show. I talked a little bit about how pissed off I was with this show in our mailbag episode, but friends, I still have more ire in me about the show. I was so stoked, and the show dragged me along for a solid five to six episodes and then literally dropped me on my face. And that's something that I do not forgive in any way. I will remain pissed off forever.

This is not The Shipper level, but damn close and I can't do it.

Ben

If you want to feel a little solidarity, David was actually bitching about this at brunch earlier this weekend. He said, I can't believe I wrote a whole post for the first time on Tumblr about this show only to be made to look like a clown like this. He said he's never writing anything ever again.

NiNi

[laughs] David's like, how dare you embarrass me?

Shan

How dare you? It sucked, man. It was a huge letdown.

NiNi

And the thing is that it could have been so good.

Shan

Could’ve had it all.

NiNi

I'm convinced that the first half and the second half were written by two different people. That's the only thing that makes any sense to me.

Ben

Yes, let's start talking about BL like Star Wars fans. STAR WARS COULD BE SO GOOD IF IT WAS GOOD. Before you bitches come after me, my very first email address I made is a Star Wars email. Don't come for me.

NiNi

Don't come for him, period. Okay?

Shan

Leave us alone, it's been a long year.

Ben

Speaking of a long year of disappointments, Shan, I'm letting you have the entire disappointment that was all of Sammon’s collected works this year.

NiNi

Oh God, here we go.

Shan

We're calling this the Sammon Omnibus entry in the disappointment list. This year there were four different projects associated with Dr. Sammon. She screen wrote three out of four, and was the original writer for one: these shows were Dead Friend Forever, 4 Minutes, Spare Me Your Mercy, and Petrichor. All QLs, all with her attached, all very heavily promoted and very buzzy.

I'm not gonna say that none of these shows were good at all or had any artistic merit. I actually really liked Dead Friend Forever until it fucked up the ending. 4 Minutes I found to be a very beautiful but ultimately incoherent mess. Spare Me Your Mercy was just a flop for all of us, none of us finished the show after all of us putting it on our list of the most anticipated of the year.

Ben

After JJ put his whole ass into Great Men Academy, I can't believe they embarrassed him like this.

[NiNi laughs]

Shan

We have all seen Tor and JJ in other projects. You are lying if you claim that they were on their game in this show. I'm sorry. They have both done better with other people with better material. This show did not live up to the hype. I did not even finish it because I was so disappointed.

Ben

I can't believe we're saying that Tor was better in fucking Midnight Museum.

NiNi

He was! He was absolutely better in Midnight Museum.

Shan

He was better in Midnight Museum! And he had better chemistry with Gun than he did with JJ in this BL. JJ was light yards better in Great Men Academy than he was here. I'm not trying to shade the actors. It's not their fault. It's the material. The writing was bad. The show was flat. They seemed not at all dialed into their characters. They seemed confused about what they were supposed to be conveying, probably because their relationship development arc didn't make any fucking sense. It's not the actor's fault. They are very good actors and this show did not give them what they needed to succeed. I cannot believe what a letdown this show was after all that hype. There's also Petrichor, which is the first GL that has her attached to it. And I had to drop that one, too. It was hard to watch.

Sammon is kind of considered one of the best screenwriters in the QL industry in Thailand. She wrote Triage. She was attached to Manner of Death. She has a track record. She has all these novels that are very popular and well liked. So there's a certain level of expectation that comes with her shows. But this year, her big year of four QLs, this was not it. Not a single one of these projects left me satisfied. I started the year as such a strong fan of her work, and I'm ending the year kind of throwing my hands up like, well, girl, guess Triage was a fluke. I don't know what's been going on, but you have not even come close to meeting that standard again.

NiNi

I liked DFF and 4 Minutes more than you guys did. We've talked about this already. But I will say that these are shows that they spent money on. I have no complaints about production quality on any of these shows. They pulled up some quality actors. They got Engfah in Petrichor. They got JJ and Tor for, as you mentioned, Spare Me Your Mercy. Bible and Jes put on a clinic in 4 Minutes. And the DFF boys, they put their whole pussy in. They acted these shows, and they produced these shows. They look great, they sound great, but the writing just didn't hold up to everything else that they were putting in.

And they got progressively worse because the one that I enjoyed the most was Dead Friend Forever, that was the first one. And the one that I enjoyed the least was Spare Me and Mercy. Like, we all dropped it. For different reasons, I think, but we all dropped it.

Shan

I mean, it was not working on any level. So no matter what you were there for, there was just nothing to hold on to. If you were there for the romance, if you were there for the mystery, if you were there for the euthanasia discussion, it didn't really succeed at any of those.

NiNi

Let's move on. Because we could talk about this forever.

Ben

Oh, that's fine. It's time for me to go the fuck off. I've been holding this in for months. [NiNi] It's time to talk about My Love Mix Up.

NiNi

God, here we go.

Ben

Before I hurt people's feelings about this, I like Fourth and Gemini a lot. I think they're both very charming. I think they are both real talents and I am very much looking forward to seeing how they mature over the next decade, the way we got to experience with the original GMMTV BL boys. That being said, part about supporting your faves, for me, is wanting them to get work that uses them well. And I do not believe that My Love Mix Up used anyone well. It's extremely disappointing to me that after doing such a good job on Cherry Magic Thailand, that GMMTV released a show that did everything I was afraid would go wrong with Cherry Magic Thailand.

Cherry Magic Thailand managed to make the Cherry Magic story applicable to the Thai context in a way that we all loved. My Love Mix Up was not a Thai adaptation of Kieta Hatsukoi. It was My School President in a terrible Halloween costume, clearly trying to sell more tickets for concerts for these boys. It was embarrassing and it was a waste of everyone's time. I am so mad about this because I had doubts about this the whole way into it, but really hoped that after the strong showing in Cherry Magic, that there was gonna be something really cool here. I had a lot of hopes about this. This sucked.

And so much of it comes down to casting. As much as I like Forth and Gemini, I like them as individual actors, not as a branded pair. I think they work just fine together, but they were not the correct boys to play these characters together.

NiNi

It's especially noteworthy because there were other boys in My Love Mix Up who I think would have done a better job.

Ben

[performately coughing] Aungpao!

NiNi

They put Aungpao in this show and they didn't make him one of the leads. Aungpao would have killed Atom.

Ben

Yeah, Aungpao would have done a way better job.

Shan

Yeah, he would have been perfect.

Ben

And I think Fourth should have played Ida's character.

Shan

I watched one or two episodes of this before I dropped it. And to me, it was just such an obvious case of miscasting. They cast it based on wanting to shove a pre-existing branded pair into a set of characters that did not fit them. And so from the start, the whole production betrayed the story. That's just frustrating.

Ben

And they clearly did not understand the major themes either. They really fucked it up.

NiNi

I came at it from a different perspective than you guys, because you guys had watched Kieta Hatsukoi, and I deliberately did not watch Kieta Hatsukoi until after I had watched My Love Mix Up, because I wanted to be sort of a control, and I ended up in the same place on the whole thing that you guys did, watching Kieta Hatsukoi afterward.

They did not get this right at all. They didn't have the spirit of it.

Ben

I'm really glad you were able to arrive at this conclusion with us. Kieta Hatsukoi is really solid and I do not understand how they fucked that up that badly. It pissed me off. It was disappointing. Chop!

Speaking of chops, how dare they reboot Love Sick in 2024 and then fuck it up this badly. I loved Love Sick as what felt like the Thai Degrassi. How do you make a worse version of that? In 2014 Love Sick was absolutely insane. They had girls two-timing dudes in the same bed with them in their own apartment complex. They have motherfuckers trying to drown each other in the pools and shit. [NiNi laughs]

Shan

And they had sex. They didn't show it on screen, but those characters had sex.

Ben

I get much of the stuff that we saw in 2014. Love Sick may have been adding stuff and they may have been trying to be more true to the book by just making it into this boring ass GL and BL experience, but it just wasn't good. And I was pissed because they went in a cool direction by making Aim queer that was really good, but it doesn't save the show.

Shan

That was the only interesting thing I heard about this remake, is that they made Aim a lesbian which added a little bit of a layer to her desire to cling on to her boyfriend. But everything else they did worse on than the original show.

Ben

I don't want to be super mean to these boys because everybody was new in Love Sick and everybody's clearly new here. But goddamn, the new kid does not match Captain. And the way that they went so hard in making him look like Captain undercuts him constantly because he's just not as good as Captain.

Shan

You know, Ben, the moment I saw that buzzcut is when I knew that this production was doomed. [NiNi laughs] Because that is so not the fucking point. That's not the part of him you have to get right!

NiNi

My whole thing about this is that to be disappointed you have to have expectations. I was not disappointed in Love Sick 2024 because I had no expectations. I did not watch it. From the time I saw that they were remaking Love Sick, I remember, I think we said on this podcast, “Who needs it? Nobody.”

Nobody needs a Love Sick remake in 2024.

Ben

We were correct. We asked why it was made and they had no answer.

Speaking of why was this made, Yin and War had a great deal of fun with their friends in the show that they produced, Jack and Joker. I ended up dropping it because they killed Jennie and I refused to accept that and I left.

NiNi

Jennie Panhan is a goddess and you cannot kill her on your show. I'm sorry, you just can't.

Shan

They really shouldn't have. It was pointless and gratuitous and disgusting.

But let me just say, I did finish this show and I don't wanna be super mean to Jack and Joker because here's the thing: it's not a real show. It is a self-funded vanity project from Yin and War so that they could hang out on a set with their friends.

Ben

And Tee Bundit was there.

Shan

And Tee Bundit was also there. I went into the show and I was like, I know this is not a real story. They cobbled this script together themselves. We're just having a good time here. That was my only expectation: this will be fun. It'll be entertaining. I have no expectations for a coherent story, for themes, anything like that. And even with that bar, the lowest bar I can possibly grant to a show, somehow this show disappointed me.

It was a mess, but not a fun mess. It was boring. It was mostly sexless, which was the most shocking part to me. They had three pairings in this show, only one of whom actually kissed on screen.

Ben

They had our boy Pee in this show.

Shan

They put Pee fucking Peerawich in this show and they didn't let him kiss anybody! I was pissed.

I'm livid, still. They had this great side couple that the fandom was super into. They never actually let them get together on screen. They did not become an actual romance.

Ben

The most useful thing about that side pair is that Shan recognizes Mark Siwat about 30% of the time now.

Shan

I know what his face looks like now!

Hi, Mark Siwat, this is my letter of apology to you.

NiNi

Shan has a very specific Mark Siwat face blindness.

Shan

It's Mark Siwat-only face blindness. And I'm sorry, Mark Siwat, you don't deserve that from me. You were a delight in this show. And I'm so mad that your character did not get a proper story.

The thing that frustrated me about this show is it's a fucking fan service project. So why aren't you serving the fucking fans? We spent 16 hours in this show and it was mostly boring nonsense. They stopped doing the capers halfway through for some reason and just made us sit in these endless plots about this stupid fucking mafia whatever, rich families playing squid games. It was stupid. It was boring.

Meanwhile, they didn't deliver on most of the things that the fans wanted. What a pointless use of so much money. Why, Yin and War? Why?!

Ben

We hadn't seen Mark properly in BL since Bite Me, so I was especially disappointed. I'm still mad about that, too! Don't you worry! I'm still mad!

NiNi

God, I'm still mad about Bite Me.

Shan

This should have been the funnest thing that happened this year. And instead, it was boring and sad.

Ben

I'm so sorry that you were on two of our disappointments, Jennie. You didn't deserve that, either.

NiNi

That's an important thing to bring up. Like, where's the fun? I feel like there were things that should have been fun that were just a slog. Where did the fun go? If this is gonna be a caper BL, then be a caper BL. You know that it's bad if you can't get me to watch a Tee Bundit show. I have not watched a minute of it. You know I feel about Tee Bundit. I love him even when everybody else hates him. Except for Hidden Agenda, which we will never talk about again. But this show didn't even compel me to watch it, which is saddening.

Shan

Yeah, it was lackluster and it was truly only the fan sentiment for Yin and War that made it popular. It was just fans supporting actors that they like, and there's nothing wrong with that. But there's no there there with this show.

NiNi

Shout out to War’s pottery videos. Sir, you are hyper competent and I find that very attractive.

Shan

And I really recommend just watching his pottery videos instead of this show.

Ben

That's right, just head to IG instead. War did good work in Love Mechanics. That's why he's a fave. That doesn't mean I have to applaud everything he does after that, especially when it's not that good.

I did like all of his outfits, though. Clearly he had a great time.

NiNi

Okay, so now that we have completed our Festivus airing of the grievances…

Ben

I feel better. I really do.

Shan

I'm happy we got that off our chests.

NiNi

Let's move into our fan awards.

00:36:51 - 2024 Fan Awards

NiNi

In advance of our Very Important Internet BL awards, VIIB Awards that are coming up later this month for you guys, we just wanted to have a few awards that are just us having fun. And so we put the call out and we got some feedback.

Ben, take us into it.

Ben

We are finally awarding the Girl, You Tried winner of the year. Girl, You Tried, for those of you who have been with us, is something we like to award every season to shows that we think had really good ideas that maybe weren't executed as well as they could have been. We handed out quite a few awards this year. I don't remember all of them right now, but we have selected a winner.

Shan, would you like to announce the winner?

Shan

Ooh, do I get to announce? How exciting. Okay.

The 2024 Girl, You Tried Award goes to Love Is Better The Second Time Around from Japan. [air horn]

Ben

We've already covered this. I'm very happy about the yukata sex, but not about episodes 5 and 6.

Shan

So close to being one of our favorite shows of the year. And that is why it gets this award.

NiNi

Agreed. I am in 100% agreement.

Ben

Other shows that were up for consideration included The Sign, Living With Him, Ayaka Is in Love with Hiroko, I Hear the Sunspot—oof I got beef with that show—and The On1y One, Shan got beef with that one.

Shan

I got beef with that show!

NiNi

I think we made the right choice in terms of the final winner, though. I think of all of those the one that was closest to actually making it.

Ben

A bunch of those guys are in another MBS not-BL right now where they're all playing boxers, hugging each other without their shirts on, and sweatin’ and shit.

NiNi

Yes, more information? You're burying the lede here. Like, I need to know where I can find it.

Ben

[laughs] Nowhere, man. It's not in the Western circles right now.

NiNi

The fan subbers are letting me down.

Ben

I got a couple of Japanese fans keeping me in the loop. They send me little clips and it's all my favorite boys wrestling on the ground and shit in dark gyms.

NiNi

Why don't they make more shows like that?

Shan

This is what I'm saying!

Ben

Let me tell you, Petty's been demanding this BL for like four years.

Shan

It's true.

NiNi

I think we are actually getting a boxing BL next year.

Ben

We are. [everyone laughs]

Onto our next award. It's time to award our Trash Fave of the year.

NiNi, please describe the award.

NiNi

Trash Fave is basically my favorite award. I cannot defend any of these shows, but I had such a good fucking time with them.

Shan

Our Trash Fave winner of the year is Gym Affairs from, wait for it, China! Did you all know that China put out a real modern BL with kissing on screen in it this year? Well, they did, and it's called Gym Affairs, and it's winning the Trash Fave award because, listen. This show is not a quality production. It was clearly filmed on some iPhones with just whatever guys they could find around. But you know what? I respect it because it had a narrative, it had a clear story, and they are doing what they can in China to get these queer stories out, one way or another.

Ben

It really spoke to guerrilla filmmaking, like they just really popped up somewhere, filmed what they needed to and got the fuck out of there.

Shan

And it's a cute little show. It goes quick. Watch it on YouTube, it's free. It's a fast binge. It's charming. The actors are cute. It's a good time. We can't really call it a good show because the production quality is so low, but it's a fave. All of our friends who have seen it had a great time watching it. You should join in.

(Transcript note: The show has since been pulled from YouTube.)

Ben

Our other two shows for consideration were Kidnap and OMG!Vampire. [NiNi laughs]

NiNi

Yup.

Shan

O-M-G Exclamation Point Vampire.

NiNi

I was gonna say that y'all have very different definitions of trash than I do because even though I haven't seen Gym Affairs yet, from what I've heard about it, it is not trash it is just produced on a shoestring. Whereas Kidnap was actual trash.

Shan

Yeah, Kidnap is super trashy. Like, trashy in the sense of, like, pulp novels.

NiNi

It's called Kidnap, but there's only half a kidnapping, maybe.

Shan

Did anyone actually get kidnapped in Kidnap? That was a Gaga joke.

Ben

This show was so stupid.

NiNi

At one point the guy kidnapped himself. Like, there was a lot going on.

Ben

This show was so stupid that I got bored with Ohm Pawat, and was like I can’t do this anymore.

Shan

I could only sustain myself by looking at Ohm's arms for so long.

NiNi

This is what makes it my Trash Fave. I watched it till the very end because my favorite two things were in it, Ohm Pawat and being babygirl.

Shan

You know what I think this is, NiNi? I think it's like when you open the trash can and you look inside, you sometimes find, like, this gem of a thing that someone threw in the trash. And that's what Gym Affairs is. And Kidnap is all the actual nasty, dirty trash around it.

NiN

Ohm, we love you on this podcast, sir. We love you so much and that's all we're gonna say.

Shan

Free Ohm from this trash. That's what I want to say.

Ben

We love you, even though all of Tumblr celebrated your character getting shot again, just like a few weeks ago.

Shan

And I don't think any of us actually watched OMG!Vampire.

Ben

Our friends loved it. They had a great time with Lee and Frank's final show together.

Shan

Several of our friends submitted it and they had a great time watching it. They highly recommend it if you're into vampires that are, apparently, very bad at being vampires. [NiNi laughs] You know, you should check that out if that's your thing.

Ben

Onto my favorite award, it's time to award the BEST BOY!

NiNi

The Namgoong Best Boy Award, which I promise I'm gonna watch Light On Me this year. I promise, I promise.

Ben

NiNi, I swear to God.

All right. Shan, I'm putting this in my resolutions at the end of this. If NiNi does not watch Light On Me, we are not doing this show next year. [NiNi laughs] I've had enough. I have a list of shows that are non-negotiable for the next awards show. Light On Me and Rainbow Prince.

NiNi

Okay, I will. I absolutely will.

Ben

You will watch them. There will be no more arguing about this!

NiNi

Okay, we're not arguing. It was never an argument. It's just more kind of, it always gets pushed down to the bottom of the list, but I promise you this year, bestie, this year.

Ben

Namgoong is the best boy and is the reason why we have this award. And this year, the award for Best Boy who did everything he could for the gays goes to Yai from The Sign. [air horn]

Congratulations, sir. We loved everything about you. We loved your arms. We loved your heart. We loved your wife.

Shan

Mostly loved the wife the most.

NiNi

I definitely had a lot to say about those arms. I'm sorry, I'm spacing out thinking about them now.

Shan

This award is for the best supporting male friend who is all about helping the couple get together.

Ben

He was so great. Good job, Yai.

NiNi

Yai absolutely did that.

Ben

What a mess of a show, but you had a clear throughline.

NiNi

I just loved him saying, “Where were you discussing the problem? The bed or the sofa?” I think that was one of my favorite lines.

Shan

He was mischievous.

Ben

Other boys in consideration were Ryoga from I Became the Main Role of a BL Drama for his feathers and his support of his friends by tricking them into having a date and also telling Akafuji he was aggravating and then giving him useful advice.

Shan

He was a real one. He was helpful.

NiNi

He was the realest.

Ben

Our last boy is Ryosuke from The Fragrance You Inherit, a last minute addition to this list.

Shan

The drama did technically end right before the end of 2024. Ryosuke is the lead’s, Sakura, of the show, he's her bestie. He's been supporting her since college. He's the person who knows her and who props her up through all the hard things in her life, including her gay disappointment, her crushed, unrequited love, and parenting her son who is a perfect angel boy. He's there for it all. He is there to help her out. We love him.

Ben

He is also played by Takeda Kouhei.

Shan

He sure is! Looking excellent. Sir, I salute you.

Ben

If you don't know who that is, you better ask somebody.

Shan

You better not come ask me, because I'll get mad at you.

Ben

On to my second favorite award. The Yiwha Best Girl Award!

NiNi

Yiwha! We love her over here!

Ben

I absolutely love Yiwha. I love that that show, all these years later, spawned the best girl and worst girls award. The Best Girl, like the Best Boy, goes to the girl who supports the boys the right way and is there for them and willing to scrap for them.

NiNi, please hand out the award to our Best Girl.

NiNi

Best Girl for 2024 is Lukpeach from Knock Knock Boys!. [air horn] All she wanted in life was to spread good information about sexual health and behavioral practices, to support her boys and to write non-creepy fan fiction about them. I salute you, Miss Mama. You are the best.

Shan

Yes, support her in all her endeavors.

Ben

She was a great character. I really like her as part of the evolution of the shipper character. I'm okay with them finding a way to write girls that really love gay boys and want them to have a good time without it being creepy.

Beyond Lukpeach, we also had Jane from Knock Knock Boys!, Ju from Century of Love, and Pai from Cherry Magic Thailand on this list.

I liked Pai a lot and she was a strong contender for this award, particularly because she stole a motorcycle to make sure those boys had the scene they needed to have. And then she left. She explicitly said, “That scene is for them. I got what I needed. I know my boys are going to make this happen.”

Shan

Pai was great at knowing the line between supporting and inserting herself where she didn't belong, and she never crossed the line.

Ben

What a great character. This was a pretty decent year for fujo characters in the genre. That is one of the positive things I can say about this year in terms of trope-related stuff.

We have introduced a new award this year.

Shan

What exciting stuff.

Ben

I'm gonna let you award this one, Shan. This is our Bridesmaid Award. This goes to…

Shan

Hyunho from Let Free the Curse of Taekwondo. [air horn] Oh, I love it. This award is for the second leads. The character that can never win, but that still manages to make you kind of want them to and who makes you sympathetic for them when they inevitably lose. I think Hyunho was the platonic ideal of the kdrama second lead in Let Free the Curse of Taekwondo. He is definitely a deserving winner of this Bridesmaid Award.

Ben

Our other two people in consideration were Sangwon for Love for Love's Sake, because he got into a whole fight for the gays and then got mad that they kept asking him for help for the rest of the show. And Kurosawa from Ossan's Love Returns, because this man has not won five times now. Incredible.

Shan

He will always be the Bridesmaid eternally. But yeah, this is really Korea's category to lose, because this is what they do. Second leads are specifically a Korean trope.

NiNi

Good job, Korea.

Ben

We are once again awarding our favorite version of BGP!

Shan

Ben, remind the people what BGP means.

Ben

BGP is a term that we got from Bump Up Business, a terrible BL from the boys of OnlyOneOf, a Korean kpop group whose entire business model is pretending to be gay, and they made a whole show about idols who had to work together in a what they called a business gay performance to sell records, and wanted us to pretend that it was a real romance. Absolutely insane behavior. The audacity!

Shan

I can't believe this show happened.

NiNi

I'm sorry! “Is our business gay performance over before it began?” [everyone laughs]

Ben

Oh my god!

NiNi

I watched that entire show specifically because they told me that line was in it.

Ben

She, NiNi was like, Shan and Ben are just cackling. This has to be ridiculous if the two of them have completely lost composure over it. And she was not let down.

We love the term BGP because it's about the performance of the relationship for consumption. Shan, please announce our winners.

Shan

This year's BGP award goes to Daou and Offroad, the only potential winners of our hearts.

NiNi

I have to agree, there wasn't even a question. This was definitely Daou and Offroad’s to lose this year because, sir, the performance is performance-ing.

Ben

They got a really solid outing with Century of Love despite everything that we now know was happening on that set and around that production. And they have continued to make their music and handle their performances, and they're coming to America this year. That's a huge deal.

Shan

They have a fan meet in the United States that is already sold out. These boys are making moves.

Ben

I'm very excited for them. Also up for consideration were Chris Chiu, aka Modi, and Kurt Huang for Unknown the series, because they went way hard on their Taiwanese BGP. Tumblr may not have been paying that much attention to it, but those boys were working very hard. And of course, we're going to acknowledge Yin and War, who got a whole show financed on BGP alone.

NiNi

That is impressive.

Shan

Pretty impressive.

Ben

All right, our final award, our most fun award. We are handing out the Blorbo of the Year Award. This is for the character that took over your brain and you just could not let them go. Every time someone tried to take it from you, you just bit down harder and shook.

Shan

Ben, would you like to announce the winner?

Ben

The winner of the Blorbo of the Year award goes to Go Young from Love in the Big City. [air horn] What a great year for us and that character.

NiNi and Shan in unison

He is the moment. [all laugh]

NiNi

Oh my gosh, I can't get it out of my head. You owe me a coke.

Ben

Yeah, it's gotta be a coke because you guys can't have any more drinks after Friday night. [laughs]

NiNi

Oh my god, no more, no more, no more drinks, no more.

Shan

Keep it, keep it to soda, non-alcoholic. Nope.

Ben

Go Young was so important to us. He is one of the most dynamic and complicated queer characters we got to experience this year. I am so thankful that despite all of the drama, we were able to get Nam Yoon Su and friends’ version of these characters. My goodness.

Shan

I feel unbelievably blessed that they got an actor of Nam Yoon Su’s caliber to play him in the drama. I never in my wildest dreams could have expected that.

NiNi

And he put his neck, his back, his pussy, and his crack into that.

Shan

Holy shit. Me and NiNi are kdrama watchers. We have seen him in other work. He transformed himself for this role. It was impressive shit.

Ben

Our runner up, who we had a great deal of discussion about and who almost won this award until like five minutes before this recording, was Dynamite from Cooking Crush, another complicated queer character with a ton of heart that we deeply loved. I've been thinking about this boy all year.

Shan

As often is the case when a character you love is misunderstood by others, it makes you love them even more fiercely. That definitely came up with Dynamite.

Ben

A lot of you don't watch anime, but Twig and I were not gonna let this go unremarked. We wanted to acknowledge Hisashi from Twilight Out of Focus, along with Shion, who was my favorite boy from that show. I love that pink Twig so much! He said, I'm going to high school and I'm gonna get me a motherfucking boyfriend. And he did.

Shan

The pink twink!

Ben

I love that pink twink so much! He said, I'm going to high school and I'm gonna get me a motherfucking boyfriend. And he did.

Shan

He did. He did it all.

NiNi

Good job, anime twink. I think there is a missing person here. I can't believe that Ben left this one out considering how he started the year. Aoyanagi Hajime?

Ben

He's not on my Blorbo list. I think about that boy a lot. But does he take over my whole soul like these boys? He does not.

NiNi

Mmm, interesting.

Ben

I admire him deeply, and I think Nachika did a great job with him, but they're getting the sequel, so. It ain't over yet! [laughs]

Shan

We'll get to talk about him again.

NiNi

We're gonna talk about them in 2024 and 2025. Fantastic.

Ben

I'm winning. I might not see Go Young ever again, but I'ma see my boy again this year. A win for me.

NiNi

Excellent, good job.

Congratulations to the winners of all of our fan awards and our runners-up. These are not VIIBs so you do not get a plate but we will figure out something, I don't know.

Ben

I'm gonna send you a cup.

Shan

Souvenir mug!

NiNi

At least it's not a koozie. A koozie is just disrespectful. We discussed this before.

Ben

I know that if we sent Gap Jakarin a mug that said Best Boy, he would absolutely show it on the IG.

Shan

He totally would and he’d pose with it!

NiNi

I believe that. 100% he would totally do it. Maybe, maybe he would even put it next to his bicep.

Shan

Maybe we should consider sending it.

[Ben laughs]

NiNi

And I would have a plotz moment. He's large, people, you know how I feel about the large ones.

00:55:49 QL Resolutions

Ben

It's time for our QL resolutions. Shan has pulled up the record on the things we said we would do for this year. It's time for the call-outs. We'll start with me.

Shan, proceed.

Shan

All right, so Ben stated a couple resolutions last year. His kind of not that serious one was he said he will watch 100 shows in 2024. And his second, which he was more serious about, is that he would be backing off of shows when he's getting aggravated with them sooner than he used to and just being more willing to stop watching shows.

So Ben, you've definitely failed the first goal, but I think you did good on the second one.

Ben

I did great. I engaged with 75 Asian QLs this year, but I dropped 26.

Shan

That's big for you. That was a big mental wall that you had to move through this year and you did a great job, bestie.

NiNi

Four for you again, Glen Coco. Four for you.

[Ben laughs]

Shan

Are you feeling better now that you started backing off shows you're not liking?

Ben

Honestly, yeah, I feel way better that I'm recognizing when a show is irritating me and I'm not forcing myself to watch it for this weird sense of ego. Like, “It's really important that I say something about this.” I don't care anymore. Who cares? It sucks. I'm not writing about this.

The core of what I want to do is, I want to convince uninitiated BL viewers to watch BL. There is no value for me in watching a show that I despise or just isn't working for me, because I'm not using it as a reference to try and get people who might like BL to watch BL. I'm not gonna ask them to watch a mid-tier BL. So it gets dropped.

Shan

All right, NiNi, in January, 2024, you said your resolution for the year was that you were gonna stop picking on New Siwaj. Let's check in on that, how you feeling?

NiNi

I definitely had a great time with a New Siwaj show this year and talked about it on the show. These resolutions do have power so you gotta be real careful when you make them. I won't say entirely that I have stopped picking on New Siwaj. I'm still gonna pick on him if he deserves it. But I liked something that he did this year.

Ben

Don't worry. He definitely deserves it.

Shan

But you found something nice to say about him this year. You did.

NiNi

I did find nice things to say about him this year. So I think that I have kept that resolution.

Shan

We did great this year guys, because my resolution from last year was to be more aware of when I'm getting no joy out of a show and cut it off and not feel bad about not finishing it. And I did that this year. I also got better at not starting shows I didn't think I was going to like. And I think that that was a good and healthy choice and I'm glad that I did it because as we've been talking about, the genre just keeps getting bigger. There are so many shows. We can't watch everything and we can't make ourselves miserable trying to force ourselves to watch the things we're not enjoying.

I'm real proud of us. I think we did good on our resolutions this year.

NiNi

Excellent, good job. So let's look ahead. What are the resolutions that we're all making this year 2025?

Ben?

Ben

I have no fucking idea. What should I do?

Shan

Do you have something about how you wanna write or how you wanna engage on Tumblr?

Ben

I'm probably going to focus on writing more reviews this year. I stopped doing Stray Thoughts but I don't want to stop writing about things I loved. I think I'm gonna push myself to write more reviews and stuff. I think I'm going to start writing on Tumblr more about Western stuff. I think I'm going to start writing more reviews about more generalized queer work that I'm engaged with. That'll probably be my thing this year, writing more thoughtful pieces about work after it's done instead of yapping about it in real time.

NiNi

Okay, Shan, how about you? What are you resolving to do this year?

Shan

I was thinking about this a bit. I think there's a couple things on my mind. I want to continue quitting shows if I'm really just getting no joy out of them. I want to continue being more selective about what I start in the first place. Another thing I've been doing more of lately that I think is working for me and that I want to continue is waiting to binge shows that I suspect I will not enjoy very much week to week. For me, it makes a real difference how I watch a show, because if I'm watching weekly and participating in a weekly discussion, I'm going to naturally think more about the show, I'm gonna dig into it more. And when these shows are kind of weak or mediocre, I'm spending an awful lot of time thinking about what isn't working. So, I'm trying to identify those shows where I just can tell I'm gonna have a better time if I get it over with quick instead of stretching it out.

I also wanna stay committed to continuing to have variety in my media diet. I want to continue to watch things outside of QL, want to be better about continuing to mix in Western shows here and there. If you just watch too much of the same thing all the time, you really lose perspective. So I wanna be attentive to that this year and make sure I'm changing it up.

Ben

You heard it here, friends. Shan is joining me in watching over 200 movies a year!

NiNi

I'm not sure that's exactly what she said, bestie. [laughs]

Ben

She said she wants to mix it up! I got a great Indonesian film for you to watch.

Shan

I will say this. This is my big gap. I just don't watch many movies. I like long-form stories.

Ben

Mm-mm. I’m challenging you, Shan. It's not like I hate movies. You’re gonna watch some movies with me, Shan. I watched a great Chinese film from 2015 last night!

Shan

Ben’s resolution is to force Shan to watch movies. I don’t hate movies. They just don't fill my soul the same way, you know? They're just here and gone so quick.

NiNi

Yeah, if I really love something, I definitely need to sit in it for a while. So I am definitely more on the long-form storytelling side of things, as well.

Ben

A great film just stays with you forever. All right, we're starting with Ghost Dog.

Shan

All right, you can make your list. NiNi, what’s yours?

NiNi

My resolution this year is to finally watch some of the shit I have been meaning to watch. My watch lists keep growing and growing and growing and I need to put some time and effort into actually watching some of this shit. Some of it because Ben is going to stop talking to me if I don't watch it. And we can't have that.

Ben

It's true! I'm glad you recognized that that is a real outcome!

NiNi

There's definitely some things that are on the list I gotta get past. I think I've finally gotten past the uncanny valley effect so that I can watch Light On Me. And I'm gonna watch Eternal Yesterday. Finally, I am gonna watch Rainbow Prince.

Shan

I forgot you haven't watched Eternal Yesterday?!

Ben

I haven’t!

Shan

Oh my god.

NiNi

To be fair to me, I do not think that is the thing for me to have watched when I was in the mental state that I was in for most of last year.

Shan

It's very true. You need to wait for the right moment, but I'm excited for you to watch it.

NiNi

I am looking forward now that I'm feeling mentally better to getting into some of the things that I have meant to watch, but just not been able to hit play on. Like I said, these resolutions have power, so It's definitely happening this year.

Ben

I'm excited. My resolution is to torment Shan into watching movies. That's great. I feel good about this one.

Shan

He's getting revenge because I have forced him to like kdramas and he's mad.

NiNi

You have gotten Ben to watch kdramas, cdramas.

Ben

I have watched Goblin, I watched The Rebel Princess. What else did you fucking force me to watch? School 2013. That is like 6,000 hours of TV. You owe me a few movies.

Shan

I sure did! School 2013. He's starting Healer again. Listen, the truth is that Ben likes the kdramas. He hates that he likes them, but he likes them.

Ben

They're just so fucking long. I just spent two hours on a fucking episode of a kdrama. I could have watched one of my fucking movies during this time.

NiNi

Speaking of movies, y’all have got to watch Paradise of Thorns as soon as you're able.

Shan

As soon as it's out.

Ben

I believe it becomes available very soon after we finish recording this.

Shan

Yeah, I'm excited to watch that one. And I still need to watch How to Make Millions When Grandma Dies.

NiNi

Have you not watched that yet?

Shan

No, it was only on New York screens for like a few days and I didn't make it during.

Ben

We have literally not had access in the US, girl! Like this, it's one of those things where like I've been intentionally waiting because we know it's coming to American distro.

NiNi

It's on that Oscar shortlist, so it's definitely coming.

Shan

Yeah, we need it. It's gonna come for sure. It'll be in theaters and I'll go watch it.

01:04:45 - Affirmations and Hopes for the Future

Ben

Okay, affirmations for the year. Things that we really liked that we would like to see more of. Number one, Kongthup Productions. Good job this year, guys.

Shan

We love them.

NiNi

We do. This is the studio that produced Knock Knock Boys!, Monster Next Door. There was a GL.

Ben

Apple My Love.

NiNi

Apple My Love, yeah.

Ben

They have been a really fun breath of fresh air in the genre this year, and I really hope that whoever is having fun funding them is getting returns so that they can keep doing that.

Shan

They are out here producing original scripts that are interesting and that have things to say.

Ben

Next, despite how much I deeply despised My Love Mix Up Thailand, I would like to continue to see more of these cross-country collaborations. There were a lot of interesting results we got from that this year. We got Unknown the series out of it. We got Love in the Air: Koi No Yokan.

Shan

I loved it.

Ben

We got Cherry Magic Thailand. And we got a couple of interesting projects where it was kind of funded in both places. Like Eccentric Romance, Meet You at the Blossom, Battle of the Writers. There may have been Chinese money involved in that one.

NiNi

There definitely was.

Ben

It's very interesting seeing these sort of cross-cultural collaborations. And even within the countries, Oxin Films and, what is the other group's name? They teamed up and made Haunted Hearts. It wasn't good, but they worked with someone else.

Shan

I'm interested in these productions adapting works from other countries in these kind of joint funding models. Love in the Air Koi was great because the MeMindY team was deeply involved in that production and there was a lot of cross marketing. They had actors from the original Love in the Air Thailand cameo on the Japanese show. It was cool to see that kind of cooperation going on.

Ben

Lastly, and we say this every year, more GLs. There needs to be way more lesbians in this genre than there are.

Shan

And we need to give them good stories.

NiNi

And even though there was a ramp up this year, because there was actually quite a bit of GL this year, I can't point to one GL that I saw or was truly that interested in this year that really hooked me.

Ben

She Loves to Cook happened this year.

NiNi

I mean, yes, yes, okay. She Loves to Cook, She Loves to Eat, but that goes in the category, the same category as What Did You Eat Yesterday? It's eternal, it's everlasting.

Ben

I'm sorry, you didn't think Chaser Game W changed the face of the game?

NiNi

No.

Shan

There were a lot of GLs this year, but most of them had, like, really terrible writing. What's wild to me, and this has been a really interesting thing that we've started seeing in the recent months. These shows, even when they're not very good in terms of the quality of the story, they're really popular because the fans are so thirsty for this content. The QL viewership wants GL and these studios need to put some real resources behind making these shows and making them good because there is a lot of potential there.

NiNi

I think GL's kind of following the trajectory that BL followed, which is a shame because BL sort of set the trajectory already, so they could have shortcutted all of that.

Shan

Can we not just skip to the good content part?

Ben

Well, they did try to make GL SOTUS, so hang in there, girls. [everyone laughs]

That's going to end it for us. We will see you all in the coming weeks as we make our way through the VIIB Awards. I'm very excited.

NiNi

And a little super special little treat for you before we get to the VIIBs, which I will not spoil but it's gonna be fun.

That is going to wrap us up on our Year In Review. Oh my god guys, another year. This is our third Year In Review.

Ben

My goodness.

NiNi

Absolutely wild. This is our 50-something episode. We're getting up to 60. We're about to be retirees up in here. We love it.

See you guys next time, we out. Say bye to the people, Shan.

Shan

Bye people!

NiNi

Say bye to the people, Ben.

Ben

Peace!

#ben and nini's conversations #podcast #the conversation #on art #lgbtq #bl series #thai bl #winter series #japanese bl #taiwanese bl #korean bl #filipino bl #Spotify

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talkingbl · 5 months ago

Text

Thai BL Companies: A Brief Guide

My guide to the major Thai BL companies for the BL newbie. I've not included defunct companies (Nadao Bangkok, Studio Wabi Sabi), companies that produce BLs but don't sign actors or companies I'm not as familiar with (Copy A Bangkok, Dee Hup House, iQiyi).

Be On Cloud (BOC)

Production Value: A- | Talent: B+ | Story Variety: C | Writing: B

Notable Series: KinnPorsche (2022), The Hidden Character (2023 Reality TV Series), Dead Friend Forever (2023), 4Minutes (2024)

Notable Actors: Apo Nattawin, Bas Asavapatr, Bible Wichapas, Fuaiz Thanawat, Jes Jespipat, Mile Phakphum

My Thoughts: As a heads up, I did not finish Dead Friend Forever ("DFF"), so please take this into account when reading my thoughts below.

BOC is the place to go for decently high production values, heavier themes, and acting that's a slight cut above the rest. BOC will bring lots of action and sex, with stories that tend to explore the more base sides of humanity.

The company's flagship series, KinnPorsche, is often cited as a good starting point into Thai BL for the average joe, however, I actually think 4Minutes is a better starting point as it takes all of the better qualities of BOC and leaves out the camp you get with KinnPorsche, which I believe is more of an acquired taste for folks who are new to Thai BL. I also think that KinnPorsche, while decent for a first production for a company, has lots of questionable directing/acting/and even writing choices that are largely eliminated in 4Minutes.

To me, the biggest issue for BOC from an artistic standpoint is the way some of their series tend to meander for awhile before getting to the point. KinnPorsche suffers from this in the middle of the series, and DFF also has this problem after the first 2 or 3 episodes. 4Minutes has sort of the opposite problem where it moves a little too quickly because of its short 8-episode run. Still, BOC's storytelling is made more interesting because of the subject matter of its series (KinnPorsche's mafia-bodyguard trope, DFF's...whatever the fuck they were doing in that scary ass show..., 4Minutes' psychological-sci-fi thriller elements).

Business-wise, BOC is a bit controversial to say the least. Their talent pool has been a bit of a mess what with Build Jakapan being forced out after being outed as the worst type of asshole and Barcode Tinnasit leaving for somewhat mysterious reasons, some of the company's key writers and producers turning out to be on a constant power trip, and even controversies surrounding the talent that haven't even had their first roles yet.

Additionally, their promotion tactics have likewise been polarizing. While they don't go full-throttle with their shipped-pair promotions, they do put on these elaborate events complete with fansigns, meet and greets, actor performances, etc. At first, it was a little flimsy (KinnPorsche cast humping the air and singing offkey in front of thousands of people), but I do think it's improving (4Minutes cast actually getting into character to perform songs (still offkey) like a stage musical of sorts, instead of singing/dancing as themselves). So, if you're wanting to get into Thai BL fandom culture, I'd say BOC has more opportunities for you to be part of that community in a way that doesn't ship you straight into delulu land.

Lastly, while I think BOC has a bright future ahead given the success of literally everything they do, I feel like a lot will ride on if they're able to keep Jes Jespipat (who was a known actor in the Thai lakorn scene before joining BOC) and attract more big-name talent. Barcode jumping over to GMMTV after alluding that he didn't want to be signed to a company again after leaving BOC is a bit of a bad look to me and I can imagine other industry talent is keeping an eye on things like that.

Change2561 (Change)

Production Value: C | Talent: C | Story Variety: B- | Writing: C

Notable Series: PitBabe (2023), This Love Doesn't Have Long Beans (2024)

Notable Actors: Nut Supanut, Pavel Naret, Pooh Krittin, Pon Thanapon, Sailub Hemmawich

My Thoughts: Before you read the below, I've only watched about half of PitBabe and clips of This Love Doesn't Have Long Beans ("TLDHLB"), so many of my thoughts are colored by brief experiences.

Change is one of the newer companies to pop up on the Thai Queer Love scene. So far, their productions have been received relatively well and their upcoming series have garnered overwhelming support. Because Change is so new and both of their leading BL productions are so different, it's difficult to really point in the direction of a true identity. That said, there is an inkling that Change will be more of a novel adaptation company rather than an original content company. Additionally, Change has adapted/is adapting books that have hooks to them (Pitbabe with the omegaverse theme, their upcoming series The Most Beautiful Count and its strong identity/politics themes, etc.).

I can't really recommend a series for Change since I haven't finished the ones I've started from the company. I do think that Pitbabe is much riskier than TLDHLB, given that it does have an omegaverse element and it switches the typical seme/uke dynamic on its head.

Artistically, Change's direction looks promising, but I do warn that, likely because the company is so new, the talent pool is a bit shallow (same few actors star in each series) and the production quality varies drastically from work to work.

Business-wise, Change seems to be doing the typical Thai BL promotion tactics of fansigns, brand events, and social media fanservice, with their pairs having slightly more distance between them than shipped pairs from other companies.

Overall, I think if Change delivers on the lineup it announced in 2024, it has the potential to shake up the top players in the industry.

Domundi/Mandee (DMD)

Production Value: B+ | Talent: C | Story Variety: B | Writing: C

Notable Series: Why R U? (2020), Cutie Pie (2022), DMD Friendship The Reality (2023-, Reality TV Series), Bed Friend (2023), Your Sky (2024)

Notable Actors: Kong Kongpob, Max Kornthas, Nat Natasit, Nunew Chawarin, Thomas Teetut, Zee Pruk

My Thoughts: Warning that I have never finished a DMD show lmao (but Your Sky looks promising).

Ah, DMD...the long-touted GMMTV dethroner. DMD is a go-to for slice-of-life series that have NC elements but not at the level of BOC. Most of the series produced at DMD are straight up romantic comedies with no other themes explored at all. But within the romantic comedy genre, DMD series explore many common romance tropes (Cutie Pie with arranged marriage trope, Bed Friend with enemies to lovers trope, Your Sky with fake dating trope, etc.). Even with its upcoming series like The Next Prince and Love Upon A Time, we're getting a european royalty AU and period piece. It's truly like if AO3 had its own BL production company.

The company's flagship series is probably Cutie Pie. Though some might argue Why R U? put DMD/Mandee on the map (a la SOTUS and GMMTV). But, really, Cutie Pie was like the 2gether of DMD. It launched the company and its shipped pair, ZeeNunew, into the GMMTV-competitor conversation. That said, Your Sky is the best show I've seen from DMD and it's not even finished yet lol.

Artistically, DMD suffers from incoherent storytelling and mid-acting syndrome. Like Cutie Pie started off okay but I couldn't move past the terribly uninspired acting and all over the place plot. That said, a lot of their actors fit perfectly into established character tropes (tall/older confident and masculine seme/top, shorter/younger shy and feminine uke/bottom), which I think is a huge draw for lots of people. This is not something that affects my viewing experience, however, so I don't count this as a plus.

Business-wise DMD is a shipper's paradise. A lot of the shipped pairs act like real couples even outside of their shows, with some even being suspected of actually dating. They have all the typical shipped pair events but combine it with content out of the ass of the actors flirting, etc. DMD actors seem to have a much more international reach than, say, Idol Factory actors. While both have similar outreach in Asia, I think DMD tries to get their actors and works in western markets, which is a huge plus for western BL newbies. Additionally, DMD actors tend to not really be actors... I mean, they act, but most of them actually want to sing (and some can). This means that shipped couple birthday events are just concerts, fansigns are just concerts, extra video content is just music videos, etc. So, you will not run out of opportunities to see your favorite actors in the flesh in a manner that's (arguably) worth the money if you go down the DMD actor stan rabbithole.

Still, DMD is slightly controversial with allegations of sexism from its actors (stemming from a video released some years ago) and inappropriate pairings. With the rising conversations surrounding age gaps in pairings lately, DMD has come under fire for MaxNat in particular. For those who don't know, Max and Nat have been paired together since Nat was 17 (Max was 26 at that time). Though they were first paired before joining DMD, so most of their critics don't call out DMD for that. Still, some feel that even though Nat is now 22, DMD is wrong for keeping him in a pair with an actor 9 years his senior. The conversation is similar with ZeeNunew. Zee has been under particular scrutiny because of a comment he made about wanting to be paired with Nunew since Nunew first joined DMD at age 19 (Zee would've been 28 at the time).

Personally, I think DMD can't be blamed from MaxNat's pairing before they joined DMD. I also don't think it was necessarily wrong to keep them paired after they joined since, by then, Nat was a grown man. While MaxNat are not my cup of tea, at this point, Nat is 22, and I'm not in the business of trying to tell a grown man what to do with his career. Same with ZeeNunew. I like Nunew a lot and feel he is one of the most talented singers who also acts in BLs. But I never felt like he was showing signs of being exploited. At this point, as long as Nat and Nunew feel safe, that's all that matters to me. Additionally, new DMD pairings do not have these problems, so it's hard for me to call it a company issue.

Ultimately, DMD will likely continue to be successful for as long as ZeeNunew have stans lmao. But, on a serious note, I think the smartest thing this company ever did was DMD Friendship The Reality because it was a great way to introduce fans to new acting talent, build fanbases for the shipped pairs that came out of the show, and get money in the process. Now, ZeeNunew and MaxNat have pairs like ThomasKong and KengNamping who have skyrocketed in popularity to pass the torch to.

GMMTV

Production Value: B- | Talent: B+ | Story Variety: A | Writing: B-

Notable Series: SOTUS (2016), The Gifted (2018), Dark Blue Kiss (2019), Theory of Love (2019), 2gether (2020), A Tale of a Thousand Stars (2021), Not Me (2021), Bad Buddy (2021), My School President (2022), Only Friends (2023), High School Frenemy (2024)

Notable Actors: Barcode Tinnasit, Est Supha, First Kanaphan, Fourth Nattawat, Gun Atthaphan, Inn Sarin, Jennie Panhan, Krist Perawat, Mark Pakin, Mix Sahaphap, Nani Hirunkit, Ohm Pawat, Perth Thanapon, Sky Wongravee, Tay Tawan, Tu Tontawan, William Jakarapatr, Win Metawin

My Thoughts: GMMTV is probably the most prolific production company in Thailand when it comes to producing BL series. They have the most series, the most actors, the most events, the most money, etc. The company's identity is rooted in the schoolboy BL. Regardless of if we're talking high school boys or university men, get used to Thai uniforms if you're going to watch damn near any GMMTV BL produced before 2021, thanks to the SOTUS effect. It's not until the company enters the BL stratosphere in 2020 that we start getting a significant uptick in BLs that don't revolve around doing everything in a school building except learning.

Beyond the school settings, GMMTV is known for romantic comedies, slice of life stories, camp elements, terrible audio quality, empty sets, and 'we definitely shot this on a $2 budget' aesthetics. In fact, it wasn't until about 2021 that GMMTV production quality shot up after the explosion in popularity of 2gether. Suddenly, post-2020, Never Let Me Go was being shot in 4K, ThamePo had boom mics that worked and not just wireless mics that brushed up against the actors' clothes and picked up every sound but the actors' voices, and Sky Wongravee was signing to this broke ass company!!! And at this point, GMMTV's identity is less in its art and more in its business.

But first, the art. GMMTV, by far, has the most variety in its BL lineup. And while they don't push the envelope as much as, say, BOC, they're starting to add in mature themes at a reasonable pace. GMMTV's talent pool has shifted dramatically with so many basement dwellers leaving and very well-known actors signing (Sky, Barcode, Boun, Prem, etc.). This means that while you will occasionally see some of the most struggle acting you've ever seen from Dunk Natachai (love u, Dunk), you will see some of the most moving performances from your Gun Atthaphans. It's honestly a somewhat strange thing to experience in real-time.

Additionally, GMMTV's stories are largely adaptations of popular Thai and Japanese works (think SOTUS, Cherry Magic TH, etc.). But occasionally you will get original series that hit just right (Moonlight Chicken).

Artistically, the biggest issues with GMMTV include the weakest actors getting the most work and the most interesting stories, the inconsistent production quality, the clear favoritism, the focus on money over art, the way many of the most popular pairs clearly hate kissing boys lmfao, and, most starkly, the episode 5 drop off.

The episode 5 drop off is a series KILLER. What this refers to is how GMMTV series are almost always good, sometimes even GREAT for the first 4ish episodes. But by the time episode 5/6 comes around (or whenever the couple actually gets together in the series), we go from really good storytelling to leaning on the shittiest cliches you can imagine, the characters becoming straight up stupid, or random things happening for literally no reason with no context at all and a resolution that comes out of actual nowhere. Like there will legit be episodes of a series where one of our leading men gets shot or hit by a car or whatever, his boyfriend is like super scared and worried he's going to die and it's this big traumatic event. No less than 15 minutes later and it's like nothing happened. The shooting/car accident was literally just there to artificially raise the stakes and waste your damn time. This happens in almost EVERY GMMTV BL. Either that or the characters fake-out kiss like 30 times after they get together until there's 2 minutes left in the season finale when they finally kiss.

Regarding the other points, for example, the company treats Gen 2 (in particular, JoongDunk, PondPhuwin, ForceBook) like they are untouchable gods despite most of the talent residing with the pillars, company-switchers, het series actors, and even Gen 3 actors. Don't get me wrong, I understand those 3 pairs are stan attractors, but I feel like GMMTV is not taken super seriously as a company because the actors in these pairs get like 2-3 series per year while some of the company's best actors don't see the light of day.

Business-wise, if you're a kpop or jpop fan or otherwise into idol culture, GMMTV is probably the most comfortable transition for you. GMMTV treats its "artists" like idols (complete with "triple threat" allegations (LMFAO)); every actor getting their own song that they also struggle to dance to; every pair getting their own official mascot, logo, fandom name, and lightstick; concerts; shipped pair reality shows; etc. Hell, even the non-BL pairs get some of these things so long as they look good together and have chemistry (looking at you, Sky-Nani imina). It's like a fanservice paradise over there (except it's not billed as the pairs are actually dating, but that they're all in the will they-won't they, phi-nong, more than friends but less than lovers, stage). And if you pay close enough attention to the GMMTV pairs, you will notice common trends of how they interact/promote that will quickly unravel any delulu thoughts that you might have at the outset of seeing them together.

But to me, the best parts about GMMTV's business strategy, however, are their international focus and the novelty in their company promotions.

As for their international focus, most of their content is freely available on YouTube and subbed in English. Many of their artists are bilingual. And they're starting to produce events overseas at a high clip (e.g., TayNew recently in Rome, JimmySea in LA last year, GMMTV Fan Fest 2025 in Japan, etc.).

Novelty-wise, they've got several things going for them. They're the ones that started the annual lineup shows where they drop trailers for series coming out in the next year, have performances from their in-house T-Pop groups, and interview the casts and crews of upcoming series. They also have unique events like GMMTV Starlympics (if you're a kpop fan, it's like ISAC but only one company's idols participate against each other and there's musical performances), and GMMTV Company Outing (which is their annual company trip and isn't officially televised, but the artists and their managers always upload videos in real time of the shenanigans that occur at these outings). GMMTV even spearheaded the shipped-pair variety show content mill with mainstay pairs getting their own shows themed after either the actors' names (think EarthMix Space) or their interests (think TayNew Meal Date). These are all pioneering promotional tactics that make GMMTV series and shipped pairs even more entertaining.

Besides the money-making genius at GMMTV, however, there have been so many scandals with this company's actors it's hard to keep track. Everything from misogyny allegations, to homophobia, to people criticizing them for largely platforming straight-presenting (?) actors over out actors, to racism, to abuse (Pawin Thanik, Foei Pattara), to inappropriate behavior with children (think Prom Teepakron), etc.

Despite the scandals above, GMMTV is going nowhere. Having so many artists signed to one company, content where there's something for everyone, and an international focus with a parasocial lens is helping GMMTV maintain its status as the premier producer of BL content in Thailand.

Idol Factory (IDF)

Production Value: A- | Talent: B- | Story Variety: B- | Writing: B

Notable Series: Secret Crush on You (2022), GAP (2022), The Sign (2024)

Notable Actors: Babe Tanatat, Becky Rebecca, Freen Sarocha

My Thoughts: Disclaimer: I've only watched Secret Crush on You (SCOY) from Idol Factory.

IDF is the first company to be spearheaded by a former BL actor (Saint Suppapong). It's a newer company with an uncertain identity as of yet (though, I'd say that they're wanting to be known as an all-things queer love (QL) company rather than one focused on BLs or het dramas).

I don't have much to say about IDF artistically except that it's being well-received by BL audiences. Most of the people who like their dramas like the chemistry between the shipped pairs as well as how seriously the company takes queer stories. At IDF, you'll not only find BLs and GLs, but also stories involving trans characters seeking acceptance (see SCOY), for example.

Business-wise, there's a risk here. While the pairs in these shows are lauded for their chemistry, there's not a lot of variety and some pairs have been entrenched in controversy regarding their offscreen activities. Personally, I don't agree with all the folks making a big deal out of some of the actors dating each other in heterosexual relationships. I just hope it doesn't affect IDF's ability to thrive as a company since they're one of the few taking real chances in their content. Additionally, it's not lost on me that more of their stans hate the fact that the actors are in straight relationships than the fact that Billy Patchanon (leading man in The Sign and SCOY) unabashedly said the n-word...

I think that if IDF can expand its talent pool, it'll continue to find success in the BL world.

Jinloe

Production Value: F | Talent: C | Story Variety: D | Writing: F

Notable Series: Hit, Bite, Love (2023), Addicted Heroin TH (2024)

Notable Actors: August Vachiravit, Jur Vasin, Newyear Nawaphat

My Thoughts: Didn't watch Hit, Bite, Love (HBL) (actually dropped the trailer like 2 seconds in lmao) nor did I have any interest in Addicted Heroin TH (though I've seen many clips on the internet).

Jinloe should probably close and all its actors sign to Tia51. Their company identity is making people as uncomfortable as humanly possible by casting children to do questionable things on TV. I don't think that company is a safe place for kids and I think the content they produce is targeted toward...a specific kind of reprehensible person. If you want to see what I mean, just take a gander at the MDL pages for HBL and Addicted Heroin TH.

I can't really speak on their art because I don't watch their shows.

Business-wise, they seem to make dumb decision after dumb decision. From casting a 15 year old to play the love interest of a 27 year old, to NC scenes involving minors, to not even attempting to build out their repertoire of dramas, this company has no vision nor any direction. They're trying to market NewyearJur as a shipped pair with music videos together and social media posts (since those two are the only ones who seemingly have age-appropriate interactions in Jinloe series), but it's all failing miserably since: 1) people familiar with Jinloe's shady business run when they see that name; 2) neither Jur nor Newyear are particularly talented in a sea of similarly-aged actors actually showing potential; and 3) neither Jur nor Newyear have the clout of others in their age range since they started with Jinloe (as opposed to, say, Mick Metas at GMMTV who got clout from being related to Win Metawin).

Jinloe will probably be the next company to close but I also don't doubt that creeps will keep them open.

MeMindY

Production Value: D | Talent: C | Story Variety: D- | Writing: D

Notable Series: Love By Chance (2018), TharnType (2019), Don't Say No (2021), Love In The Air (2022), Love Sea (2024)

Notable Actors: Boss Chaikamon, Fort Thitipong, Noeul Nuttarat, Peat Wasuthorn

My Thoughts: MeMindY is known for its CEO (?), Mame. Anyone who is familiar with Mame's work knows they're going to get dicey romance stories often centering around university students with at least one scene of romanticized abuse for good measure. Now, I do think the abuse stuff is changing (Love In The Air (LITA) didn't really have any of that), but I can understand why MeMindY has that reputation. Either way, every MeMindY show will have engineering/med school/architecture/some other type of professional school students, actors folks consider conventionally attractive, reluctant bottoms that don't know they're gay, somewhat aggressive tops who are always physically bigger than the bottoms, strict heteronormative dynamics, and sometimes literally insane plot elements (like the Tor plotline that came up in TharnType (TTTS))...

Artistically, MeMindY needs to take a step away from university BLs. While TTTS and LITA kept my interest for a bit, I do think Don't Say No (DSN) felt a bit stale. But I'd say it's likely because DSN didn't have the best acting and its episodic structure made it difficult for me to connect with the underlying story. Particularly, the episodic structure in DSN didn't work as well as it does in GMMTV's ThamePo. Still, I appreciate the fact that MeMindY picks actors that do not seem bothered at all about kissing and portraying sex with other men. It's what makes MeMindY series more dynamic than series from other companies despite the laundry list of issues they tend to have.

Business-wise, MeMindY leans HEAVILY into the shipped-pair dynamic. It's less commercial than GMMTV and, these days, less 'we're actually dating' than DMD, but somehow it comes off as just as in-your-face as DMD and GMMTV. I'd even say that I consider MeMindY a peer company to DMD and GMMTV based on the popularity of its shipped pairs alone. Like MewGulf (RIP), BossNoeul, and FortPeat are all booked and busy. MewGulf did for Mew Suppasit and Gulf Kanawut what BrightWin did for Bright Vachirawit and Win Metawin. Mew and Gulf never have to act in BLs ever again to have success and can solely focus on their het careers and terrible singing. I'd even go as far as to say MewGulf is often considered the blueprint for what a shipped couple can be with folks (not me--zonzons leave me alone) often comparing ZeeNunew and the like to MewGulf. BossNoeul is similar to a JoongDunk/PondPhuwin level of noteriety without nearly the same level of dramas to their name, which speaks volumes.

Because MeMindY can produce 1-2 series per year with the same 4 actors and have people shipping them to the high heavens, I think we can consider it an established company that will continue to thrive barring bankruptcy lol.

Open Label

Production Value: C- | Talent: B | Story Variety: -- | Writing: B

Notable Series: Century of Love (2024)

Notable Actors: Daou Pittaya, Offroad Kantapon

My Thoughts: Open Label is the new company on the block. From my understanding, Daou and Offroad actually formed the company themselves (a la YinWar with YWPB or Saint with IDF). Open Label does not have an established identity because they've produced approximately one show. BUT, they did tell us about DaouOffroad's new series The Wicked Game, which looks to be a bodyguard romance that takes on some of the more mature themes we typically see at BOC.

Artistically, all I can say is that they're off to a great start with story selection. Century of Love (COL) was a good first entry as it has a fantasy/supernatural element that blends Thai folklore and religious practices with its romance. There's also the level of comfortability and chemistry between its key actors (Daou and Offroad) that is hard to come by. Hopefully as the company produces more successful series, budgets can increase and they can attract even more talent.

Business-wise, there is no business. There is only DaouOffroad and a slew of pretty faces we have yet to see in anything. This is a good starting point for any company, however, so we shall see how things continue to progress from here.

Ultimately, I'm optimistic that Open Label will see success.

Tia51

Production Value: C- | Talent: C+ | Story Variety: D | Writing: C-

Notable Series: My Universe (2023), LoveSick 2024 (2024)

Notable Actors: Almond Poomsuwan, Bew Busaya, Krit Ngamtanakijja, NJ Deeprompt, Progress Passawich, Shane Thanatpong, Sky Phasith, Toto Thayawat, Yeepun Purichaya

My Thoughts: I've only watched LoveSick 2024.

Tia51 is not exactly new but, from what I know, they've only produced 2 series. Because of this, they don't have an identity yet.

Artistically, so far, so good. It's definitely interesting to have one of your first series be a remake of an iconic series, and it seems to have been a genius decision by the folks over at Tia51. But, because the flagship series is a remake, the only thing to discuss artistically is the talent pool. The directing in Love Sick 2024 was, at times, very inspired. The actors were nearly all rookies and a good 75% of the cast were under 18 at the time of filming--2 things which do come through quite a bit in the finished product. Still, I found that the lead role was very strong, all things considered, and the changes made from the original to this remake seemingly made a lot of sense. Going forward, it's really just about staying at this level of quality or better.

Now, out of all the companies in this space, Tia51 is the only one I have personal experience with when it comes to the business/fan side of things. While in Thailand, I stumbled upon the premiere of LoveSick 2024. While the event itself could've used a little more logistics planning (though part of the problem here is that my Thai isn't very advanced so I had a little more difficulty getting around the venue), it was overall pretty well-organized, which left a good impression on me.

Additionally, the actors are all hella clouted in Thailand (from my understanding, many of the actors cast in the show actually had fanbases through things like music and social media prior to being cast), which adds to the business potential of Tia51. It also helps that, from my experience meeting the crew and cast, they are all very charismatic and are quickly learning how to be good entertainers. Because of this, I think the business of Tia51 has potential to expand. They just need to not waste Progress's acting talent, Chok and Toto's singing talent, and the rest of the cast's social media clout in order to succeed. This means picking tasteful stories to tell and actually nurturing their musical talent in a natural way (unlike GMMTV platforming non-singers).

Conclusion

If you're coming from western media, I'd say the best place to start is either BOC (they have the more serious vibes you get in western media with few quirks) or GMMTV (they're the most accessible).

If you're coming from eastern media (particularly kpop), GMMTV is probably the best place to start, closely followed by DMD. The fandom experience that is a huge part of kpop, is very similar here. In fact, for kpop fans, it might even be helpful to think of the BL companies in kpop company terms. GMMTV/DMD/BOC = SM Entertainment/JYP Entertainment/YG Entertainment, respectively. MeMindY & IDF are like the smaller companies that still have popular groups like WakeOne and KQ Entertainment.

If you're coming from other BL industries (Taiwan, Japan, Korea), I'd say start with Change or DMD for Taiwan and Tia51 or BOC for Korea. If you're coming from Japanese BL, I don't know what to tell you because jbl stans almost always think jbl is superior to everything else and won't given] anything else a chance. Plus, production quality-wise, jbl productions are very dissimilar to Thai productions in almost every conceivable way lmao so I can't really make any good comparisons.

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