#batman vs robin 3

[its-your-mind]

(while under the influence of a being that is causing their deepest grievances with bruce wayne to be top of mind):

damian: hey remember that one time when you told me that you love me but you’ve never really liked me? that was when I realized that I was only ever your son out of your own fucked up sense of duty

tim: the moment damian showed up in our lives you dropped me as though you were just waiting for the opportunity to present itself. I might as well be invisible for how often you look at me whenever we actually end up in a room together. Sometimes I’m not sure you even remember I exist.

stephanie: you treated me like a fucking mascot when you gave me the robin mantle. I was literally clay for you to mold — I would have done anything you asked, become anything you wanted, and you used me just enough to serve your purposes and then threw me away.

jason: I literally came back from the dead. I showed back up unstable and violent and even after you found out about the Lazarus Pit and you knew there was something wrong with me, you just ignored me because you thought I was too broken for you to fix. I was your son and I was suffering and you didn’t even try to help me.

dick: you know where I grew up. who my family was. who I was. and you told me that I couldn’t be that anymore, and forced me to find a new way to perform. the flying graysons died because of you, because for robin to be born, dick grayson had to die.

damian: also it’s hella fucked up that you let a bunch of kids dress up and fight crime with you every night. I grew up in a cult, so I know what I’m talking about when I say that the level of indoctrination here is frankly astounding.

bruce: …

bruce: clearly all of this is bullshit, because it was prompted by by magic bullshit.

bruce: any guilt I am feeling is also magic bullshit.

bruce: I will internalize nothing from this experience.

[soranatus]

KATE KANE & DAMIAN WAYNE In DC vs. Vampires: World War V – Darkness and Light (2025)

[erinwantstowrite]

if you want people to get into the canon comics and lead everyone away from fanon misinterpretation (which is a losing battle because there will ALWAYS be this) then why not be helpful instead of being a dick about it 🤨

the comics are hard to get into because it's hard to know where to start, and there's so much content that people are able to fill themselves in by reading fanfic or watching something on tiktok or seeing posts about it on here. perhaps instead of telling people they're stupid for not realizing your favorite character is being mishandled by others, you could write up a list of your favorite comics and/or how, if you could read them for the first time again, you would order your favorite comics to get the best reading experience. and also write your own fanfiction and draw your own fanart or make a passionate post, answer questions politely

[arcade-confetti]

"Jason was the happy robin" this, "jason was the angry robin" that. Let's all be fully honest here Jason was the lonely robin

[silverwhittlingknife]

hi Silver! o/ because that fanart made me wonder - would you happen to know when/where Dick's stuffed elephant plush Zitka turns up in the comics?

GREETINGS CAM <3333 THAT ART WAS SO CUTE

Yeah, I think your instincts are right - it's a truly adorable bit of transformative fandom, but I'm 95% percent sure it's not comics canon. Barbara has canon plushies, but I don't think anyone else does.

I got kinda invested in the investigation (it's hard to prove a negative!) and I ended up typing out an entire History of Elinore/Zitka, so, uh, if you're curious, meet me below the cut for:

Where does Elinore / Zitka - the animal - appear in comics?

Did Dick ever have a stuffed elephant toy in comics?

Where does Elinore / Zitka appear in comics?

We're gonna go in chronological order!

Dick's circus elephant friend was first created for practical reasons: in Batman 436, Marv Wolfman does a big expanded flashback to Dick's circus backstory as a way to subtly show us Tim before officially introducing him (so that we can have a technically-solvable mystery-of-Tim's-identity in LPoD). In this comic, there's an elephant named Elinore who loves Dick:

Aww. Such a cute elephant!

Batman 436 comes out in August 1989. New Titans 60 comes out a few months later, in November, and guess what? When Dick visits the circus, he is suddenly surprised by an unexpected blast from the past! It turns out that even though it's been years, Elinore still remembers him!

Here's the part where Elinore remembers Dick:

SUCH a cute elephant. I love her.

(Guess who else still remembers Dick even though it was so long ago. Guess which other character is about to be an unexpected blast from the past. Guess which character Elinore is directly paralleling guess guess guess sorry everything is about Dick and Tim in my mind but I can focus I swear)

Four years later, in 1993, Batman: The Animated Series retells Dick's origin story. They like and keep Wolfman's elephant, but they change her name to Zitka:

Wolfman doesn't return to the elephant beyond those two appearances, and a few years down the line, New Titans gets cancelled and Wolfman's not writing Dick anymore anyway. So the animal gets abandoned for a while, until Devin Grayson, a fan of both Wolfman and B:tAS, revives the Wolfman-era Titans team in JLA/Titans and then the ongoing series Titans 1999.

Grayson then brings back the elephant in a flashback to Dick's past in Titans 16 (Jun 2000), where she imports the B:tAS name. Sometimes I'm skeptical of TV-to-comics imports, but honestly, I endorse this one. You lose the alliteration, which is a shame, but IMO Zitka is a better elephant name than Elinore.

Here's Dick with the newly-christened Zitka in Titans 16:

Grayson also briefly references the elephant in Gotham Knights 20 and - in a final angsty callback - in Nightwing 88 (Feb 2004), where Zitka tries futilely to comfort Dick in the midst of his trauma conga line:

... And... honestly, I think that's it for comic appearances? The two Wolfman comics plus the three Grayson comics.

Both Wolfman and Grayson are writing multiple titles - Batman, New Titans, Titans, Gotham Knights, and Nightwing between the two of them, spanning a big chunk of Dick's post-Crisis canon - and both writers use the elephant for heartwarming moments of nostalgia, which means if you're doing a post-Crisis readthrough for Dick, Elinore/Zitka feels memorable. But I don't think she actually shows up that much.

For post-2011, I am not as well-informed - throwing this out to the dash? anyone know? - but I feel like Zitka the heartwarming symbol of Dick's heartwarming circus past is, uh, thematically very at odds with the Court of Owls evil!circus vibes, so my instinct is that this story element was almost certainly dropped in the reboot.

Did Dick ever have a stuffed elephant toy in comics?

In WFA, yes; in main comics continuity, no. Technically, I have not read every comic ever published, so I could be wrong!! But I don't think so.

Below, find my rambling reasoning on the tonal vibes of pre-Crisis, post-Crisis, and post-2011, and why this particular story element doesn't seem right to me for the first two.

Pre-Crisis (...okay, mostly the Silver Age): stuffed animal, yes or no?

tl;dr no, requires too much background knowledge on the part of the reader, plus the elephant wasn't a thing until later

Elinore doesn't get created until post-Crisis, but also just generally, pre-Crisis callbacks are more along the lines of this reference in Batman 129 (published in 1960), where, wow, Batman and Robin are hunting jewel thieves - and it turns out Robin recognized this strongman! BUT HOW?!

The comic goes on to recap Dick's entire origin story in flashback, on the assumption that you may not know it.

(BTW, if you'd like to know more about Haly's Circus throughout the years, nightwingology has a great post here summarizing a lot of fun plotlines and characters!)

Basically: Silver Age comics are very self-consciously episodic and kid-friendly; they're not generally gonna do overly-elaborate callbacks because they don't know what comics their kid readers may have randomly picked up or remember.

By the time of post-Crisis, comic books were being written for an adult audience buying from the direct market, i.e. readers who are collecting whole runs & don't need or want Dick's origin story to be recapped to us in full every time it's referenced. That's why in post-Crisis, we get stuff like "hey, neat, this particular soda brand is getting mentioned in several different books!!" or "in order to understand this story arc, buy SIXTEEN DIFFERENT COMICS in FIVE DIFFERENT RUNS and read them ALL ACCORDING TO A NUMBERED ORDER and also you better be following the individual plotlines and recognize these five minor characters who we don't bother to introduce!! Good luck!!" But the elaborate post-Crisis plotlines - and subtler worldbuilding like a stuffed animal callback to Dick's backstory - don't make a lot of story sense UNLESS you're imagining your readers as completionist adult fans.

So IMO a stuffed animal wouldn't be a pre-Crisis thing unless it was The Episodic Story Of the Week, and I don't think a stuffed animal is action-adventure-y enough for the fast-paced storytelling of the Silver Age. (Unless it, like, came to life and tried to eat you or something.)

Post-Crisis: stuffed animals, yes or no?

tl;dr: no, Dick's a manly tough guy, he's not gonna have a stuffed animal, that'd be lame, like something Tim might do

Part of the edgy grimdark adult vibes in 80s/90s comics is that some characters who used to be kinda silly & goofy & lighthearted - like Batman and Robin - get reimagined as Serious and Angsty and Edgy in a Tough Cool Manly Brooding Way. This massively affects characterization for Bruce, Dick, and Bruce and Dick's relationship.

(I obviously love this change & love the tense Bruce-and-Dick interactions, but plenty of fans of the earlier fluffy comics really disliked the edgy retcons of Miller / Wolfman / Starlin / et al.)

The upshot is that post-Crisis is a period when you could have a recurring reference like a stuffed elephant, but you wouldn't have a stuffed elephant, not for Dick. I think a toy like that would be too cutesy / childish / effeminate to give a male character in post-Crisis, unless you were poking fun at him.

Now, you could probably let Tim have a stuffed animal, because Tim is sometimes cool but also sometimes a tryhard loser who is faking being cool and not entirely pulling it off (see e.g. the Robin comic where he practices tough-guy faces in the mirror, or the Teen Titans comic where Conner discovers his cringy Enya CD, or when he's fanboying over Connor and it's awkward, etc etc.). A stuffed animal would be deeply embarrassing, and you'd have to be careful to compensate by having Tim do something cool afterward - but Tim's character concept allows for "he's kind of a loser sometimes."

But Dick isn't!! In post-Crisis, Dick's a tough / impressive / "cool guy" character, the kind of guy anyone would want to be, even in the flashbacks where he's Robin, and even in the stories where he's more lighthearted than angsty. It'd be kinda lame for Dick to have a stuffed elephant, so he wouldn't. I feel like Dick would be more likely to poke fun at it if someone had one, like when he's making fun of Wally for liking the Hardy Boys. Dick could have a Batman action figure, at most, and if he had one he would have it ironically.

Basically: in post-Crisis, a male character hugging a stuffed elephant feels more likely to be a punchline to me, not something poignant. (Even with Tim, Tim could have an embarrassing stuffed animal, but he couldn't hug it when sad - that's too far. Maybe Booster Gold might do this. Probably he wouldn't, but spiritually, he would. Sorry Booster ilu! <3)

Instead, Dick instinctively deals with his inner turmoil like the TORTURED ACTION HERO he is: by punching things and brooding and yelling and joining the mob and sleeping on rooftops and going on obsessive secret missions and acquiring Angsty Stubble!! Just like Batman!

(Technically I don't know if Bruce ever joined the mob but you know he would.)

Anyway as you know this is my favorite continuity and I am poking fun affectionately, but uh, yeah sdfsfdsfs. No stuffed animals.

Post-2011 / Infinite Frontier / Wayne Family Adventures: stuffed animals, yes or no?

tl;dr it's in WFA! Probably not anywhere else, but it could be.

Post-2011 stuff tends to be cutesier overall, most of all in the current Infinite Frontier era. So I don't feel like this would be tonally out-of-line with IF comics. Taylor tends to go for more meme-y references rather than fanfic references, though.

So the obvious best fit is WFA, which is aiming for a rough approximation of Silver Age family-friendly vibes - wholesome, episodic plots, Teaching Good Moral Lessons For The Youth, etc. - plus lots of Easter eggs for fanfic readers and some comic references.

And look, here we are:

Aww.

Whew - that's everything I could find!

Anyway as you can probably tell, I LOVE the elephant, so this was a very entertaining rabbit hole to go down, thank you <3

[princemonday]

what are your guys thoughts on batboys ages?

[martyrbat]

batman and superman vs vampires and werewolves #2

[spooky-kakashi]

what the hell did they do to my boy? why the fuck does he have two eye masks instead of a singular domino maks?? you know as is practical

[geekeryisafoot]

I hate superhero comics. I'm reading a trade that collects an entire run, except suddenly an event takes over the telling of the plot. But that event isn't included here. What do you MEAN you published a book that tells the first third and last third of a story? And I have to go get another book for the middle of the story?? This is so hilariously stupid what the hell is wrong with superhero comics. I mean I'm gonna go read the event but still. I thought I was half done with this book but PSYCH there's a whole other book hidden inside my book

[chatonfils]

So like I’m adding this photo and blurb in an edit but this is the area in which my brain p much stops aging Dick up. He’s perpetually 27 in my brain and I’ve got the ages skewed a little to fit this au, but Jason is always 5-6 years younger than Dick in my head. So the correct answer will always be whatever Dick’s current age is minus 5-6 years based on consumer preferences. You can fuck with all the younger Robin’s ages as much as you want as long as Jason remains 5-6 years younger than Dick.

Also my timelining here is not permanent it’s just a rough idea since I’ve only really read Tim’s Pride comics 😂😂😂 Bernard is just one of my blond boys doing what blond boys do. Anyways Dick is my favorite DC character and Billy is my second favorite DC character.

can you do "how old do you think jason todd is?" maybe starting at "18 or younger" and then "19", "20", "21", etc? maybe ending at "27 or older"

thank you and sorry if i didnt do this correctly ;w;

You did this correctly! Thank you for the poll submission :)

[casscainmainly]

The Evolution of Cassandra Cain's Dialogue

Since Batgirl #1 is out and thriving, I thought it'd be fun to dive into the history of Cass' dialogue throughout different writers/runs. This is not comprehensive - I'll miss some writers, but I'll be covering her generally most known runs in mainline continuity (so no DCeased, Shadow of the Batgirl, etc.). Not a linguist by any means, so linguists on here feel free to chime in! (I'll also give opinions on which interpretations I personally prefer at the end).

Without further ado, we'll start at the beginning:

Kelley Puckett - Batgirl (2000)

Pre-issue 4, Cass speaks minimally in one-word sentences and doesn't have internal narration. Post-issue 4 (when a metahuman changes Cass' brain), she develops an internal monologue and begins to speak longer sentences. I'm splitting Puckett's Cass dialogue into 3 stages: early, middle, and late.

Early (#4 - #12): Cass speaks short, fragmented sentences. Each word has an ellipses between them (panel 1 above, from #7).

Middle (#13 - #24): Cass continues to speak incomplete sentences (often missing a subject or pronouns), but without ellipses (panel 2, from #13).

Late (#25 onwards): Cass begins to speak complete, simple sentences, punctuated by a few ellipses (panel 3, from #33). She continues to speak grammatically (though slowly) throughout the final part of Puckett's run.

Dylan Horrocks - Batgirl (2000)

Horrocks writes very similarly to late-Puckett, with Cass speaking in full, simple sentences, punctuated by the occasional ellipses. Horrocks introduces two new elements to her dialogue:

Cass stutters, sometimes repeating a word or phrase at the beginning of a sentence (panel 1 above, from #39). This is mostly used in the earlier parts of Horrocks' run.

She quotes reality TV (panel 2, from #51).

Maybe because of the reality TV, Cass also speaks more colloquially here than in Puckett's run, using phrases like "come 'n' get it" (from #57).

Andersen Gabrych - Batgirl (2000)

Gabrych's run focuses heavily on Cass' dialogue. Panel 1 above, from #58, suggests her narration boxes are another form of dialogue - Cass is speaking into a recorder. Several features of Gabrych's Cass dialogue are:

Ellipses: Even more than his predecessors, Gabrych scatters ellipses throughout Cass' speech (panel 1).

Fillers: Cass extensively uses filler words such as 'uh', 'um', and 'like' (panel 1, panel 2 from #61).

Longer sentences: Cass is more talkative and speaks longer sentences (panel 1, which is basically more words per panel than Puckett and Horrocks combined).

Wordplay: Cass often ponders definitions and word structures (panel 1, 2).

Adam Beechen - Batgirl (2008)

After evil Cass (that dialogue is not worth discussing), Beechen gets another chance with Cass in this miniseries. More than any other writer, Beechen differentiates Cass' internal monologue from her dialogue - her narration boxes are much wordier than her speech.

Her dialogue is a more loquacious version of late-Puckett or Horrocks: full sentences interspersed with ellipses (panel 1, from #1). The ellipses drop off towards the end of the series.

Her narration boxes use a variety of sentence structures and vocabulary. They read more or less as fluent English (panel 2, from #4).

Scott Snyder - Gates of Gotham (2011)

Snyder's Cass somewhat resembles mid-Puckett, using short sentences without ellipses (panel 1, from #2). She speaks a fair amount, but is more taciturn here than in any previous run. This is partially due to her not having narration boxes.

A unique feature of Snyder's Cass is preferring formal to informal speech. Though she uses contractions (panel 1), she goes large stretches without them (panel 2, from #3). She also omits the subject of a sentence only once in 5 issues, whereas native speakers (like Dick) drop the subject all the time ('have you ever been to Paris?' vs. 'ever been to Paris?'; Snyder's Cass would always say the former instead of the latter).

Sidenote: Batman & Robin: Eternal (2015)

Quick note about B&R:E: Cass is reintroduced into canon after being erased by the New 52, which means she's back to having very limited language ability. The series is scripted by multiple people, so it's hard to analyse. Suffice it to say she speaks in monosyllabic words, at most a short, incomplete sentence, but is mostly silent.

James Tynion IV - Detective Comics (2016)

Because Cass' language ability has been reset, Tynion develops her speech along the lines of Batgirl (2000).

Early Tynion has Cass speaking single word sentences (panel 1, from #938). Very similar to pre-metahuman touch Cass in BG (2000).

During the League of Shadows arc, Cass begins to speak a few words at a time, often separated by an ellipsis (panel 2, from #956).

Afterwards, Cass' friendship with Basil Karlo blossoms, leading to this run's most distinctive language feature - Cass improves her speech via studying and quoting Shakespeare (panel 3, from #958). Her improvement is reflected in the rest of the run through speaking longer and more frequent sentences.

Bryan Hill - Batman & The Outsiders (2019)

Like other writers, Hill's Cass generally uses short, simple sentences. She frequently drops the subject or pronoun in a sentence (panel 1, from #1). Hill doesn't use ellipses to separate the sentences, opting for periods most of the time.

Cass sometimes omits other words from her sentences too, dropping articles like 'a' and 'the' (panel 2, from #4), prepositions like 'to', and verbs like 'is' (panel 3, from #9). This peters out in the second half of the run.

Becky Cloonan and Michael W. Conrad - Batgirls (2022)

Similar to mid-Puckett, Batgirls has Cass speak mostly in short, 1-2 word sentences (panel 1, from #2). Cloonan and Conrad occasionally use ellipses as well, though mostly for emphasis/natural hesitation rather than indicating a unique speech pattern (panel 2, from #7).

Cass also has a habit of repeating/echoing a phrase Stephanie says (panel 3, from #16). This might be more of a friendship thing than a speech thing, though.

Alyssa Wong - Spirit World (2023)

Wong's Cass uses short sentences sometimes interrupted by ellipses, like late-Puckett and Horrocks (panel 1, from #1). Generally, if the sentence is three words or less, there won't be an ellipsis (panel 2, from #5).

Kelly Thompson - Birds of Prey (2023)

Thompson's Cass draws on a lot of previous iterations, but is somewhat unique as a whole. Some elements of BoP Cass include:

She speaks in sentences of varying lengths, but rarely with more than one clause (panel 1, from #1). Thompson is more strict about not using commas with Cass than most other writers.

Cass is a little more talkative (panel 2, from #5). Her sentences are fairly lengthy compared to most other runs, and she doesn't always opt for the shortest way to say things ('where is it?' instead of 'do you know where it is?'). Thompson also doesn't use ellipses, which adds to the sentences feeling longer/more complete.

BoP is ongoing so Thompson may add more to her speech.

Sidenote: Ram V - Detective Comics (2023)

Putting this in a sidenote since there's not much to say, but Ram V takes after mid-Puckett, with Cass using shorter, incomplete sentences. Cass almost always omits the subject of a sentence; her dialogue is as short as possible while retaining clarity.

Thoughts

Because Cass' language disability is a core part of her character, but learning to speak is also a core part of her character, I prefer writers who emphasize her unique speech patterns without reducing her range of expression. My favourites are:

Gabrych - by far the person who put the most effort into his dialogue, Gabrych-Cass has such a vibrant, distinctive style of speaking. The narration boxes, Cass' wordplay, and the use of fillers and ellipses all combine for a speech style that highlights her disability without reducing her to it.

Puckett/Horrocks - combining because they are really very similar. Puckett and Horrocks both use ellipses to great effect, and is a great style to emulate for Cass in an earlier stage of life. Horrocks' use of reality TV is severely underutilised. Puckett, of course, is the gold standard for typical Cass dialogue - if Gabrych's style is a little too much, Puckett and Horrocks are the way to go.

Tynion - mostly because of the Shakespeare thing. It's such a beautiful and clever way of showing her progress, and the amount of symbolism you could do with Cass quoting Shakespeare is unmatched.

I don't super enjoy the more talkative Casses (Beechen, Thompson to an extent), though I kind of like Snyder's take because there's a sense of Cass being very careful with her speech there. If you're writing Cass for a fanfic or something, I would avoid Hill's Outsiders; the run is great, but Cass' ungrammatical speech is unusual and doesn't jibe with the rest of her depictions. Ram V and Wong are relatively good depictions to draw from though.

Of course these are my opinions! I may have gotten some things wrong/overgeneralised stuff, so take all this with a grain of salt. All you need to know is you should read Batgirl (2000) :).

[sydney-sargent-superfan]

reasons why stephanie brown would win the hunger games because one of my friends read an article that said she would die first and that’s bullshit

1. medical knowledge because her mother is a nurse

2. sewing knowledge can help with dressing wounds probably

3. canonical genius who is good at puzzles and games, this can help with identifying plants that are safe vs unsafe to eat

4. extremely brave and canonically has “more willpower than a frontline general” (DIRECT QUOTE FROM BATMAN)

5. has to be some sort of martial arts prodigy considering she was beating up grown men at age 14 and her only training was being an amateur gymnast and a varsity softball player

6. extremely charismatic and arguably knows better than any of the other robins how important public perception is because she grew up poor and a girl (important for getting sponsors and making alliances)

7. canonically one of the only people who can sneak up on batman (very useful in a setting like the hunger games)

[damian-navarro-art]

BATGIRL & ROBIN

Finally guys after all the sneak peeks… my Cassandra Cain and Mia Mizoguchi Short Story! CASS AND MAPS!

Thank you for reading! Please let me know what you think!

I’ve been posting it on my instagram all this month and last week on my twitter but i had totally forgotten to post it in here, for 2 months there wasn’t a day i wasn’t thinking on them and i would have loved with all my heart to do something even longer but… building up a story, thinking over and over the layouts, drawing and coloring with this level of detail all on my own is really hard and i can’t but feel guilty of taking this long for just this 7 pages, but as little that is, with all my heart i just really hope you like them :’) , I tried to put many little easter eggs and references but i will mention some at the end to not spoil your reading.

Okay, so some of the esster eggs:

PAGE 1: that Adam West Batman & Robin climbing a building shot which actually came to me from Bruno Redondo’s cover of Nightwing actually , and the rest of the panels hugely inspired by Batman The Animated Series!

PAGE 2: a portrait of Niccolai Tapes( The Mad Monk) on his early years and at his side Matt Wagner himself! , then a newspaper with a Batman based on his first appearances and a reference to the events from Batman vs the Mad Monk by Matt Wagner, and then ofc all the room filled with a bunch of objects taken exactly from the same pages of Matt when he draw The Monk’s Castle on the same book. and finally the book of Dracula for the same reason ;) , all this layout was inspired by one of the most iconic pages from American Pax by Frank Quitely

PAGE 3: all the vampires were based physically on Voldermort’s Death Eaters! but also the girl in black is Dala! Mad Monk’s more loyal acolyte which in the book she always desired to become a vampire but never could! , but from left to right, Barty Crocuh Jr. , Dala as Bellatrix, Peter Pettigrew, The Monk was “Voldemort” , then Snape, Lucius, Narcissa and Fenrir Greyback, and that last panel was a BLADE reference 🙂‍↕️🙌

PAGE 4: this whole Cass yellow panels with speedlines were supposed to represent the same kind of panels that Damion Scott drew when Cass was moving really fast in her Batgirl run, the whole layout was based on a page of Jamal Campbell from his Green Arrow run

PAGE 5: shot referencing the killing joke joker and batgirl cover, you can see a “Red sun” mode on the bat-flashlight apart from the Ultra Violet setting, them. Maps bites the Monk as she used to do a couple times in Gotham Academy, and Cass final attack is a reference to one of the moves she does in her 2000s run to stop the heart beats of a thug , and those circles were inspired by David Aja’s work on his Iron Fist and run!

PAGE 6: the building on the background purposely resembles the Bat ears, the GCPD have the uniforms from BTAS and you can see also Detective Montoya and Jack Ryder interviewing her :), Maps little hearts are taken from Karl Kerschl who used to do them on Gotham Academy a couple times, and finally the Grapple Gun reference from all the time Maps mentioned it on Gotham Academy 🙂‍↕️,ohh and the box of the gift was also the same feom Shadow of the Batgirl when Barbara gives her suit to Cass!

PAGE 7: Frank Miller’s Batman and Carrie Kelly cover 🙂‍↕️🫶

THANK U GUYS 🫶

[gaywineauntsstuff]

My favorite thing about reading Dicks thought process vs literally how everyone else views him.

This is the least exaggerated version of this I will willing produce.

-older gen JL: thinks wing is dependable, charming, intelligent and a great leader, impressed how much he’s grown and how well he’s done in the hero world

Heroes his age: the golden standard that everyone tries to match up to and fails at one point in their sidekick-hood before accepting yeah I’m not Dick Grayson and having him lead them in a hero team. The defacto person to look towards in a crisis situation, manages tasks efficiently and doesn’t let personal details affect him. He’s cool, calm and collected while still being the most empathetic man on the planet.

Heroes younger than him: straight up awe. if the heroes who saw his awkward teenage phase, discowing and are privy to his love life info. How do you think people who just saw ‘Mr perfect’ without any of the painful growth to get there and since about 9 billion things have happened since Dick was Robin people have too much to talk about to ever bring it up. I see their thought processes going something like this

-oh my god is that nightwing like THE nightwing like Robins big brother nightwing like the leader of the titans nightwing is he looking at me oh my god he smiled at me wtf wtf wtf until they hyperventilate

(Source how Kow talks about dick Grayson like 99% of the time- ignore all Dan Dido works )

Batkids: awe with a side of insecurity bc that’s the gold standard and how tf are you supposed to get there. Even if you’re an amazing fighter like Cass, the leadership skills, ability to talk people down, make more allies than enemies, infiltrate, lie, cheat, steal, put on a million different masks and come out whole.

How does he know what he’s doing? How does he look so calm and collected when the worlds ending

Batman and Superman (remember when they co-parented in the 60s yeah me neither): like uncomfortable amounts of pride like the type of pride that feels too big for your chest as well as implicit trust.

For B specifically Dick is his crowing achievement as Batman

VS

Dick Grayson at any given moment pre Tom Taylor run: everything is my fault, I suck at everything, I’m never good enough to stop bad things from happening to the people I love it’s all my fault and I will never be able to stop it. My life is an accidental trolly problem except I didn’t know it when I started, I didn’t mean to press any levers I didn’t know what I was doing I am a burden who must make himself useful as an apology.

Like Dick is in a constant spiral of how much he hates his limits and how he just isn’t ever going to be strong,fast,smart or good enough while everyone is staring at him with heart eyes like omg it’s nightwing <3

[celaenaeiln]

Hiii, how are you? I’m new in the Batman fandom, but i saw a lot of people saying that Jason is actually Batman’s favorite child, and when i was reading the comics, i really though that Dick is Bruce absolute favorite, but i saw a lot of posts here on tumblr of the fandom saying is actually Jason and that the batkids all know its Jason, but i don’t know what is canon and what is fanon (quite honestly when it comes about the batfam i don’t like a lot about the fanon version 😭), so i wanted to ask you about it

And sorry if i said something wrong, english is not my first language

Hi and no worries at all!!

Yeah, canonically Dick is Bruce's favorite by a LONG shot and canonically the batkids all know this.

Infinite Crisis Issue #3

It's says right here in the comics. Really explicitly. But not only that, time and time again, there is clear evidence of Bruce's preferential treatment of Dick over the rest of the batkids.

One time the batboys and Bruce are searching for a guy that kinda is using the Gotham criminals as his subjects. So what they decide to do is split up to narrow him down.

Detective Comics (2016) Issue #1057

But they run into issues because the villains chose a 'divide and conquer strategy"

Detective Comics (2016) Issue #1057

Bruce gets swept away! Because of a carefully planned trap. But do you what he does the second he wakes up?

Detective Comics (2016) Issue #1058

JDAKFA;BFJALEC

BRUCE LITERALLY WENT: "I love Dick and all the other not-Dicks equally" !!!!!

As if that's not enough, Bruce's biggest fear is that he's not good enough for Dick.

Bruce's fear about Dick-

Batman vs Robin Issue #3

because he believes this -

vs

Bruce's fear about Jason -

Batman vs Robin Issue #3

because he believed he failed to do this -

Batman: Hush

Reminder: Joe Chill is Martha and Thomas Wayne's killer. Enough said.

If you want to be even more explicit about Bruce's preference for Dick over Jason it can't be clearer than here:

Bruce reflects on Jason's Robin tenure -

Batman (1940) Issue #428

Something a lot of people don't know/refuse to acknowledge is that Jason canonically did have anger issues. There aren't a lot of parallels between Jason and Dick but one particular thing that DC points out is that Jason and Dick both lost their beloved fathers. The difference is that Dick was able to move on and become cheerful even if he didn't get revenge. Jason wasn't able to get over the loss of his father and became angry. UTRH makes a specific point of talking about this too.

Batman (1940) Issue #645 "He knew that Jason Todd was NOT Dick Grayson."

Do you remember why Jason became Robin?

Batman (1940) Issue #416

Bruce wanted Dick. He took in Jason in replacement for Dick. But Jason was not Dick and even on the day he died, all Bruce could think of was that taking in Jason was a mistake.

The batkids are well aware of this. Damian actually calls Jason Bruce's mistake too when he's recounting the story of the robins.

Here's what he says -

Batman (1940) Issue #713

That's Damian's retelling. Tim's is even worse -

A Lonely Place of Dying

Ouch.

Truthfully Jason is like Bruce's 4th favorite. In order of how much Bruce loves his kids it goes:

Dick

Damian

Cass

Jason/Tim (tie)

Tim/Jason (tie)

Steph

I think there's so much confusion about Jason supposedly being the favorite because Bruce grieved over Jason's that but I think a lot of people are conflating grief and self-blame with love. There have been two significant deaths in the family: Jason and Damian. If you look at how Bruce reacted in each aftermath, it becomes clear that he loves Damian more than he loved Jason.

After Jason's death:

Batman (1940) Issue #429

Batman (1940) Issue #431

After Damian's death:

Batman and Robin (2011) Issue #21

Batman and Robin (2011) Issue #20

He would forcefully make Jason relive the worst day of his life so that his other son could enjoy his.

Bruce's behavior after Jason's death was self-destructive and isolative but his behavior after Damian's death was to beat bloodly every single criminal. His reasoning for beating Dick after Jason's death was "Jason was your replacement. If you hadn't left I wouldn't have had to take him in and he wouldn't have died." His reason for beating Jason after Damian's death was "Your trauma matters so little to mean that all I want is Damian to live again and I couldn't care less about how you feel."

In summary, Jason wasn't Bruce's favorite either as Robin or as an adult. But even if it's not Dick, claiming that Jason is the favorite is so far off that no one is DC would remotely believe it. You would think there would be more analysis on Damian's death in comparison to Jason's because they were two big official deaths but I guess not for some reason. I ran out of image space but yeah there's more than just this overall. This isn't to say that Bruce doesn't love Jason. NO! He very much loves him. But he just doesn't love him the most.

On a different note - coming from someone who went from TT show to YJ to fanfic AND THEN reading comics, I've had relearn a lot about each of the characters. But for people still in the process of transitioning from fanfic to comics or just in the fanfic stage, general rule of thumb when it comes to batfamily content - NEVER trust what people say if they don't provide the evidence for it. People in this fandom are so wild that they'll have you believing the earth is the center of the universe, that you'll fall off the world if you go too far left or right, and that pigs can fly.

[hood-ex]

I'm only just now looking at Batman and Robin: Year One, and right off the bat, I noticed Waid has already made a connection to his writing from Batman vs. Robin #3.

In Batman vs. Robin, Dick, while under a possession that made him air his deepest grievances, berated Bruce for taking him away from the joy and recognition he got as a performer in the circus, and instead of getting to continue that experience, Dick Grayson was hidden behind a mask.

Batman vs. Robin #3

In Batman and Robin: Year One, Bruce brings up the fact that only a few weeks ago, Dick had an adoring crowd chanting his name. Now, in the present, Dick is masked and anonymous.

Batman and Robin: Year One #1