#datv discourse

[elf-trash]

casual reminder to the dragon age fandom that criticism of a game isn't an attack on you personally if you are a fan of said game. also, it's very possible to have a nuanced take about these things. e.g. "i liked the queer representation but not some of the politics displayed in the game" etc. if someone says the game's writing displays some questionable neoliberal ideologies, that doesn't mean they're calling YOU a neoliberal for liking it. if someone says they found certain aspects of the game to be islamophobic, they're not calling YOU an islamophobe because you enjoyed the game or didn't see a problem. and so forth.

as has been pointed out, EVERY dragon age game has these problems to varying degrees. there are things they've handled very well in each game (esp for their respective times) and things they fumbled. discussing and critiquing the places where the storytelling fails doesn't invalidate the good things nor does it make you a bad person for liking any of the games. this applies to all media btw, not just dragon age!

and finally, criticism of a piece of media you liked is not inherently bullying nor is it some organized campaign to tear down anyone who enjoyed it and/or the creators of said media. publicly disagreeing with a public opinion posted on a public website where opinions from the opposing side are actively invited isn't bullying. this is the fandom discourse website. if you post fandom discourse and it leads to more fandom discourse, then idk what to tell you!!!! obviously harassment is never okay, but we're talking about a piece of media that none of us had a hand in making. no piece of media is perfect or above reproach nor are criticisms a personal attack on its fans or supporters (or even creators). are some criticisms of the games rooted in bigotry? sure! does that mean all critiques are coming from that place? absolutely not, especially considering a fair amount of the criticism is coming FROM queer POCs.

anyway, this got long and i know the dragon age fandom has quite literally always been Like This and i've been here since origins came out so this ain't my first rodeo. but let's please try not to lump every take we disagree with and paint it all with one extremely bad faith brush!!!!

[brain-rot-central]

you know what i find off about varric that i'm not realizing until now

his hair.. is brown? black? salt and pepper yes; he's getting older. that's whatever. but your hair doesn't get darker when you get older and start graying.

...he's like a sandy-strawberry blond in DA2 and DAI

...what happened lmao did he start dyeing his hair for the ladies? like why change his fucking hair color

is this even varric??

[gloomygloworm]

Sure I'll toss my hat in the ring.

I'm kind of ambivalent about veilguard. It's my very first DA game I've ever played, I saw the companions everywhere after it hit the stores and the world looked beautiful and rich. My friends all love DA and they all MET through the DA Fandom years ago, so I wanted to engage in this new thing my friends loved!

It's a gorgeous game. The towns feel alive, the companions are funny and heartfelt and so different from each other.

The game feels fucking empty.

I really don't like that half the quests are just conversations. Why is speaking with the first warden a whole quest? I said maybe 3 things, he gets his ass handed to him by someone else (Dorian was it? I don't remember his name) and then u go wow cool thank god I'm not in jail! He's an idiot! And thats... it lol.

I've had to learn about the world through my friends giving me context from previous games. Some of the codex entries are weird, I really hate how alienating it feels to be rook. I don't get to join bookclub, I have to install a mod to make additions to the grocery list, it feels so rare that you actually get to engage the companions at the lighthouse during "rest" time.

I've been playing an elf mage - a (very smart in my hc) veil jumper, yet I'm relegated to "guy who hits artifacts with a rock to make them stop" and Ballara is constantly explaining jumper stuff to me that I should already know.

The weird "project" thing u decorate ur room with. U use that to establish (imo) natural talent and how studious you are, but the game never does anything with that. Half the flirt options in dialogue are things I would say to anyone I consider a friend, or was giving heartfelt support to. None of it feels very flirty. I'm sad I can't request kisses from romanced companions like you can in baldurs gate 3, it feels like such a small mechanic but I never take it for granted. I loved kissing my romanced companion good morning and good night.

Most of the quests feel really short and unfulfilling. The fight style is fun but all I'm doing is short lived fights that make my attention wander. Most of the gear you just find, I find the shopping experiences at vendors boring, but I do like the decorations. I kind of wish we had more decorating space tbh!

I like the game for what it is, but I'm happy I got it on sale cause I would never pay full price for it. I haven't technically finished the game yet cause I keep restarting (lot of rook ideas) but if I had to play it without mods again I just wouldn't have fun. It just stinks that it feels like rook doesn't even have to be around to move the plot. Everyone else has connections and rook is just making decisions the others don't want to make. Like I genuinely don't think rooks presence should have done jack shit during the dragon attacks? I get the politics of what was going on in minrathus but if that was going to happen rook being there shouldn't change the tide at all.

I'm just one guy. I feel like Treviso should have been hit more even when I help them because again, I'm just one guy. They just don't really give any explanation on why rook is good for the job imo, yeah yeah "unpredictable and doesn't know when to quit!" That's fun but they don't really engage with that for rook? We all get good gear, we all level our abilities, i hold everyone hands while they go through their personal quests, but what makes rook actually able to do this? Just sheer determination?

Like why aren't I even involved in breaking the hold elgernan has during the venatori conference with the Dalish prisoners? I just feel like as rook i don't do fucking anything at all? Most conversation I'm involved in happens without player input. There's not a lot of actual choices in the game. It feels like they could have added 30 more quests at least.

Idk. Thank god for modders (not the ones whitewashing I hope you all die in incredible pain, everyone who downloaded them too.)

Game just feels kinda empty. I'm glad I didn't pay full price for it.

[new-austin]

Dragon age is back, I love going in the tags it's awful. Emmrich is enslaving Manfred, wanting to fuck spite makes you a pedo, Taash is child coded, Killing Harding is racist and more to come I'm sure

[watcherintheweyr]

I can't believe I'm writing this

To open up with: IT IS ABSOLUTELY OKAY AND VALID TO BE DISAPPOINTED BY THE LACK OF WORLDSTATE CUSTOMIZATION IN DRAGON AGE THE VEILGUARD. I have my own disappointments about it!

Ok? We have that covered? We good?

Cool, moving on.

To people who are genuinely, hatefully angry, saying we will now be 'forced into Bioware's worldstate' (when this year alone they've stated there is no 'canon' worldstate more than once), or saying that none of our prior dragon age choices matter, I need you to take a step back and walk with me for a second, okay?

For starters: John Epler stated that one of the reasons they narrowed the choices is because they DO NOT want to invalidate the worldstates of their longtime players. However they also don't want to alienate newer players who don't have the history and lore of the past choices. It's a narrow line to walk.

Secondly, I want you to really look at the choices made by your Hero, Champion, and Inquisitor. Which of those choices genuinely affected NORTHERN Thedas, not Southern Thedas, to the point it would linger for years afterwards? Which of those choices weren't things that specifically affected or altered the sociopolitical Southern Thedas climate and landscape in lasting ways?

The Well? Kieran?

That only leaves that if your Inquisitor drank, they now have knowledge from ages long past... that Rook doesn't need. Rook has a direct line into Solas' history and a possible Veiljumper background, unlocking those very secrets on their own.

It's entirely likely and probable that the Well's fears and threats were a red herring. Think about it. We as a gandom have spent TEN YEARS worrying about the Well, about Solas, about Mythal.

Come June 2024, we're slapped in the face by the big bads of Ghilan'nain and Elgar'nan.

Morrigan likely isn't going to be close and friendly with Rook- so there's likely not much reason for her to tell us about her child or husband if she has them.

The rulers of Southern Thedas aren't going to affect us. We aren't tackling the current world ending crisis from the position of a leader of armies like the Warden and Inquisitor, but as leader of a small task force. The Southern Divine doesn't much affect us either- nor do Southern mage politics or templar politics.

Because Rook is an entirely new perspective.

Because Rook is in an ENTIRELY different sociopolitical climate/landscape.

I DO think there should've been ways implemented to specify your Inquisitor's bonds and personality. I'm HOPING maybe there still are that we haven't seen. But otherwise?

My Warden is free. I can say she's cured her Calling and is wandering the world with Zevran.

My Champion can retire into total obscurity with his husband or be quietly helping said husband destroy the slave trade. Either way.

Your history and choices in Thedas still matter. Your heroes still matter.

They just aren't Rook's focus.

Take a breath please. And stop sending death threats to the devs bc what the **fuck.**

EDIT:

further context from the devs on Bluesky

[strawberry-halla]

‘drop em and rebuild the empire, phwaar!!!’

oh sera you read solas like a book

[cherrypikkins]

after 10+ years of watching unmitigated aphobia in the dragon age fandom it really does feel -chef's kiss- to know that is lucanis confirmed canonically as ace-spec with a demon named spite of all things

its delicious poetry and i am eating it

[rookamell]

'Lucanis is a planner!' and yet every time my Rook is like 'we don't have time to plan we need to act' it's him and Harding with the little Approves icons... just saying...

[faewrenbird]

Rant Incoming:

TW// acephobia

The acephobia surrounding Lucanis now isn’t surprising, but damn I am so tired

God forbid a character isn’t made to cater to the audience at large, huh?

Ace people clearly aren’t “in reality,” or “living.” Oh, and we’re clearly not “ordinary,” right?

The entitlement some people have is truly staggering. Lucanis’s writer confirmed that he was written to be a demisexual/demiromantic virgin. If something about his character and/or romance dissuades you from liking him, then consider that he’s not the right romance option for you OR go to AO3 and dunk yourself in fanfics where he’s the epitome of the Spanish Lover™️ trope.

The issue here is a player wanting to project onto Rook and being upset that their Rook doesn’t get the attention or romance that they personally want. Which, fine, we can’t help what we feel. But this isn’t the writers’ fault (this poster was in damn near every one of Mary Kirby’s posts complaining about Lucanis not being passionate and etc.) And it’s not an excuse to express wanting to take representation away from a group for which representation was purposely given.

*To be clear, I’m not commenting on the substance of his romance or number of lines or on the Neve/Lucanis vs Rook/Lucanis debate

I’m speaking specifically to the acephobia that has emerged after learning that he is, indeed, demi, something that ace people suspected already and related to

Let us have this

[sorceresssundries]

Lichdom Headcanon

I think my main reason for being unable to make Emmrich a Lich is that I see eternity as a force of erosion. The remnants of mortality -love, hope, grief, kindness - cannot survive it.

Beings of eternity are incapable of true empathy for those who flicker and burn out in comparison. Perhaps, at first, they still feel the ache of loss - the first death, the first heartbreak, the first loved one buried beneath the turning of the years.

But grief is a wound that cannot be reopened forever.

It dulls, softens, becomes routine. A hundred years pass, and death no longer stings. A thousand, and it does not even register. The weight of loss fades, and with it, love itself.

He will still have his memories of being human, but turning them over, again and again, in an endless cycle, will deform them into something unrecognisable.

All he loves will go somewhere he can never follow, leaving him with nothing but eternity.

And when does eternity turn into oblivion?

[brain-rot-central]

All I can say is thank God the queer community is finding fault with how EA/BioWare handled Taash because I swear that ain't fuckin it

[gloomygloworm]

hi i'm here to cause more problems in the fandom!

ive seen some posts recently talking about "why the hell do people WANT to see slavery in veilguard, why are they so obsessed with oppression?" and i can answer this, as a brand new member of the fandom!

cause i had no fucking idea that elves were considered second class citizens until my friends told me!

i had no idea that the crows were so severely flawed, or that the antaam were proud warriors (other than canon fodder,) or that minrathous and tevinter as a whole had this huge problem with slavery.

i just yesterday after doing research into other games discovered alienages, about the dales, about who andraste was and who shartan was. because even reading the codex entries the game seems to fail to make any general connection to all previous games and the world they crafted at all! what the fuck is the chant of light? whats the major religion? what IS andrasteism? what do you mean the crows buy children and torture them - what do you mean they arent just exaggerated circus clowns that kill people? i get it, part of it is perspective. but you'd think dock town - a VERY POOR section of minrathous, would have an alienage? that we'd see more elves doing menial labor or trailing behind nobles as slaves?

also i keep hearing shit about the viper being the pope? or tarquin? where the hell is this info? quite frankly the game doesnt make the codex tempting enough for me to want to 100% it (ESPECIALLY finding out about this terrible "secret ending" that makes me fear picking up ANY MORE codex entries since i already have 2 out of the 3 you need to get it???)

the obsession with slavery isnt because i want to be oppressed, if i wanted that all i have to do is go be in public because im both queer and disabled living in a red state. its about what THEYYYYY the GAME CREATORS put in their own game. slavery! which now, despite how RAMPANT it supposedly is, i have no clue about! i only know about half the shit i do because my friends have been in the fandom a decade and im playing through origins now with them. which, btw, whoa what a game! not afraid to be icy and bitchy and HARSH in an environment where they cultivated that exact reaction.

i like the scenery in veilguard. i like the amount of mingling npcs in locations that make it feel more full, i like the soundtrack and the graphics and the companions as characters. i dont like the story! i dont like the lack of environmental storytelling or the discrepancies in information that i feel like i should know. it feels like its taken the same landslide that pokemon has - going from being called a loser by Gary to having no less than 3 best friends at any given time. There's such a lack of conflict like the game is scared to express the spectrum of emotions and personalities that people deal with day to day. i like my escapism the same as anyone else but if im walking through a city known for treating elves like second class citizens no i wont be surprised if im called a "knife ear" casually by some drunk moron who cant even stand straight.

no ones looking to be oppressed. we're looking for what you advertised to people ages ago - a complex story with serious consequences for the actions of others!

[roykentschesthair]

As a demisexual person myself I need ya’ll to understand that sexual attraction and sexual arousal are NOT the same thing.

I also need you to understand that lacking romantic experience and lacking sexual experience are NOT the same thing.

Do I think a virgin demisexual Lucanis is a perfectly valid interpretation of the character? Sure!

Do I think he was intentionally written that way while being described and promoted in the lead up to the drop of the game as anything but?

No. No I don’t.

I think Mary Kirby was seeing a LOT of totally valid criticism of his writing and romance and locked onto something that wasn’t intentionally written to avoid that critique and I think that SUCKS.

I think it’s also important to remember that Corinne was specifically asked if any of our companions were asexual and explicitly replied no, but that they’d love to do it in future games. Demi is a part of the ace spectrum. Regardless of headcannon, Lucanis is not and was never intended to be explicit representation

[postcardsfromheapside]

While I'm out here running my mouth tonight:

I also believe that a significant amount of the attraction to Lucanis is that he presents a "safe" fantasy for a threesome without the player worrying about latent guilt over cheating or 'having to share'.

And wow what a mindfuck that must have been to hear that not only was Lucanis demi, but Spite supposedly isn't interested in your shenanigans.

Anyway.

[blightbright]

Solas fandom and "genAI"

I recently came back to Tumblr 99.9% because life is stressful and I'm autistic and special interesting about Solas, but I never could keep my mouth shut so... re: so-called "genAI" in fandom spaces:

I say so-called because it is neither truly generative nor intelligent, and it is not really artificial: it is created with the real stolen efforts of living people and real environmental exploitation

I have little interest in blaming everyday individuals (except CEOs, political leaders, billionaires, etc) for the harms of the most popular "genAI" tech, because it's a systemic problem

"genAI" is intentionally confusing and it's ok if people are genuinely ignorant, at first, of how it works or the harm

I also have loved ones who disagree with me

THAT SAID, I urge people to learn more about and consider the harms to society, other people, and one's own process of self-expression, learning, and creativity from the use of "genAI"

I can't control your behavior but I can tell you that your messiest, most "OOC," error-ridden rough draft, or your most wonky-proportioned stick figure fan art is infinitely more precious, valuable, and emotionally, culturally, and spiritually significant than an unintelligent plagiarism algorithm doing it for you, even if it gets less hits/kudos at first. don't give up hope: your own art means something. I encourage you to make fandom a heartfelt space of resistance!

it is important for communities to define boundaries of unacceptable behavior (i.e. use of non-gen AI spellcheck, Google Translate, "genAI" rewrite functions, character "chats," plot/outline "generation," full-blown "generated" pieces... IMO, I'm fine with the first, uneasy but ok with the second, and the rest I actively oppose)

in the absence of clear boundaries, transparency is key! please publicly and clearly disclose ANY use of "genAI" at ANY stage of the process for fan works, because concealment of this is disrespectful and hurtful. if you didn't know before, such is life. now you know.

avoid all bad faith arguments about shipping wars and witch hunts. you have nothing to fear from posts uncovering AI if you do not use undisclosed "genAI": the two works in question did. you have many things to fear from unchecked "genAI" use if you are a writer, artist, or someone who needs our planet to stay alive

the work @durgeapologist, @fangbanger3000, and others have done to raise awareness about "genAI" use in popular fan works is extremely valuable, difficult work, and does not need to be perfectly worded to be earnest, meaningful, and ultimately beneficial for fan communities

bonus point, sponsored by autism: Solas as a character draws on figures from Norse lore including Loki, god of many things including callouts and criticism of powerful systems; Odin, god of words, wisdom, poets, and uncontrollable creative inspiration; and Fenrir, wolfpup god of surviving trauma, seeking praise and social approval from the powerful only for it to result in pain, raging against the system, and freedom. IMO, if I want any character to rally people together for the sake of resisting billionaire tech companies when possible and celebrating old-fashioned creativity, it's Solas. it's in his story's DNA. whoever we want him to smooch.

[roguerambles]

Anyway, I love Dragon Age the Veilguard--

Don't get me wrong, it's not flawless. But I definitely think the people insisting its god awful are being way, way too harsh. And considering the troubled 10 year long production and the game being rebooted like what, 3 times? I'm happy with the end result.

I think once the dust has settled a bit Veilguard will benefit from the "Dragon Age 2" effect - a lot of people hated DA2 when it first came out for not being like Origins, but after a while looked back and appreciated the game's strengths more.

I love the companions, I love the environments, I love the Solas storyline (and this is coming from someone who was kinda meh on him in Inquisition) Act 3 ripped my heart out in the best way possible. I love how the game answers a lot of lore questions while also setting up some interesting new developments (the Blight? The Qunari? Those from Across the Sea? Very interested to see where that goes in the future)

Seeing some of the cut content I'm a little disappointed at some of what we lost along the way (although I'd wager that's more EA's interference than a choice on Bioware's part) and some of the present day lore could have been better explained (the explanation for the Antaam breaking away from the Qun should not have been regulated to a Codex entry) but overall I'm very excited to see what the future holds for Dragon Age.

Now excuse me, I'm off to begin another Veilguard playthrough--