#from erec and enide

[vooruitmariek]

March to Camelot #1: hunt

Sir Erec and Queen Guinevere in the woods

[chiropteracupola]

What a hard-hearted young man, hard-hearted you must be / You must have had a heart of any stone / For to say that you would murder that fair and pretty maid / When she doted the ground that you walked on.

[geraint and enid for @mortiscausa’s ’march to camelot,’ for the prompt ‘power’]

[howaboutswords]

Such sorrow our splendid sovereign never knew,

Nor was his spirit ever sunk as by that single sight.

The good King gazed, gripped with horror,

Groaned gruesomely, wept gouts of tears,

Bent kneeling to the body, embraced it,

Cast up his visor, quickly kissed Gawain,

Looked at his eyelids, now locked fast shut,

His lips like lead and his complexion pallid,

And then, crowned king, cried aloud:

'Dear cousin and kinsman, in care I am left,

For now my glory is gone, and my great wars finished.

I hold here my hope of joy and armed success;

Wholly on him depended my heart and strength!

O my counsellor, my comfort, keeper of my heart,

Renowned king of all knights ever known under Christ!

Worthy to be king, though I wore the crown!

Throughout the wide world my wealth and my glory

Were won by Gawain, through his wisdom alone.

Alas!' cried the King, 'my grief grows now;

I am utterly undone in my own country.

Ah, dire and dreadful death, you delay too long!

Why spin out so slowly? You smother my heart!'

- Arthur mourns on finding Gawain and his troops dead in the alliterative Morte Arthure, lines 3947-3968, translated by Brian Stone.

[gawrkin]

could you tell me about arthur's bastard (and legitimate) children?

(Word of Caution: For various reasons, including inaccessibility of source materials, I am not fully read up on all the details of the source materials involving the following characters. Nor am I aware of all known children of Arthur. Therefore, I should advice discretion)

First are the two major sons, both of whom changed legitimacies as the legend evolved:

Mordred - Originally a nephew by Arthur's full sister Anna/Morgause in Historia Regum Britanniae, Mordred is later converted into Arthur's bastard son, conceived incestuously, in Vulgate Cycle. The Welsh Dream of Rhonabwy suggests that Mordred was fostered by Arthur (a normal practice of both Romans and Celts)

Loholt/Ilinot - First appeared in Erec and Enide and apparently based on the Welsh character of Llacheu, Loholt was originally a Legitimate son of Arthur by Guinevere in Perlesvaus and the German Tradition. But Vulgate Cycle alters this so that Loholt is instead another bastard son by a certain Lisanor prior to Arthur's marriage to Guinevere.

Next are the ones with Unknown Mothers (and thus of ambiguous legitimacy and relationship to Guinevere):

Amr/Amhar - Son of Arthur mentioned in Historum Brittonum as being killed by Arthur himself. His grave is described as naturally changing size with every look, implying supernatural influence. He is also mentioned in the Welsh Geraint, as one of Arthur's Four Chamberlains

Gwydre - Son of Arthur mentioned only in Culhwch and Olwen. He is killed by Twrch Trwyth alongside two maternal uncles of Arthur.

Llacheu - The most celebrated of the Welsh sons of Arthur, with mentions in Pa Gur, The Welsh Triads and other Welsh Poetic Material. Is usually identified with Loholt, with the Welsh adaptation of Perlesvaus - Y Seint Grail - being the most notable in that regard.

Duran - Son of Arthur only found in a 15th Century Welsh Manuscript, where he is said to have perished during the Battle of Camlann

Archfedd - Daughter of Arthur, found in the Welsh genealogical work Bonedd Y Saint, where she is said to have married Llawfrodedd, one of Arthur's warriors, and bore two children, Efadier and Gwrial

Apollonius, Iron and Hilde - Two sons and a daughter found in the 13th Century Icelandic Thidrekssaga.

Aristes - Son of Arthur mentioned in the Old Norse Mottuls saga

Legitimate Children of Arthur (Although not necessarily Guinevere's children)

Samson the Fair and Grega - Son and Daughter of Arthur by his wife, Queen Silvia. Both found in the Norse Samson saga fraga

Adeluf III, Morgan the Black and Patrick the Red - Three sons of Arthur, from Eldest to Youngest, from Rauf de Boun's 14th century chronicle, Petit Brut. Presumbly, sons of Queen Guinevere, but Rauf de Boun fails to mention the name of Arthur's wife. However, Adeluf III is made heir and assumes the Throne of England whilst Patrick and Morgan are given sizable inheritances in the form of Scotland and Wales. (Note: Wikipedia claims they're Arthur's sons by a fairy queen, but the cited source does not say so. Link to source HERE)

Seleucia - Daughter of Arthur by his first wife, Liscanor (Lisanor), in Jorge Ferreira de Vasconcelos' 16th century Portugese novel Memorial das Proezas da Segunda Tavola Redonda. (*This technically makes her the full sister of Lisanor!Loholt) She married Arthur's successor, Sagramor Constantino (a combination of Sir Sagramore and Constantine, son of Cador) and may have even bore a daughter, Princess Licorida

Huncamunca - Daughter of Arthur and his wife, Queen Dollalolla, from Henry Fielding's 1730 Tom Thumb play

Melora - Daughter of Arthur and Guinevere from the Irish romance Eachtra Mhelóra agus Orlando. One of the more well-known daughters of Arthur and one of the very few warrior women in Arthuriana.

Merevie/Smerbe/Smerviemore - Son of Arthur by his second marriage to a french princess, Elizabeth. Figures primarily in the genealogical legends of Scottish Clan Campbell, who claim descent from Arthur through Smervie.

Rowland, Ellen and Two unnamed older brothers - Certain versions of the Ballad of Childe Rowland and Burd Ellen portray them as the sons and daughter of Arthur and Guinevere, apparently due to the mention of Merlin.

Tryphine's son and daughter - A certain mystery play collected by François-Marie Luzel in 1863 merges Saint Tryphine from the Conomor legend with aspects of Queen Guinevere, with the primary antagonist being the lady's brother Kervoura. The two children are unnamed, but the son goes by an alias, "the Malouin"

Iduna - Daughter of Arthur and Guinevere from Edgar (1839), by Adolph Schutt

Blandine - Daughter of Arthur and Guinevere from Les Chevaliers de la Table Ronde (1937), by Jean Cocteau

Bastard Children of Arthur:

Kyduan/Cydfan - Son of Arthur by Eleich ferch Iaen. Mentioned in Culhwch and Olwen and Bonedd yr Arwyr

Arthur le Petit - Son of Arthur from Post-Vulgate, born of Arthur's deliberate rape of a daughter of Sir Tanas. Arthur le Petit serves as a "good" counterpart to Sir Mordred. He loyally serves his father incognito for many years and despises Lancelot's faction for causing the destruction of Logres. He is slain by Sir Bleoberis.

Tom a Lincoln - Eponymous hero of the 16th century romance Tom a Lincoln, by Richard Johnson. Son of Arthur by Angelica, a daughter of the Mayor of London. Fathers two additional characters, the Black Knight and the Faerie Knight.

Gyneth - Daughter of Arthur by a half-genie named Guendolen. From Walter Scott's The Bridal of Triermain (1813). A huntress whose Marriage competition results in the death of many knights including Vanoc, who is implied to be Merlin's son. As a result, Merlin puts her into an enchanted sleep for many centuries until her true love awakens her with a kiss.

And finally, those with a tenuous link to Arthuriana:

Nathalia - a supposed daughter of Arthur who accompanied St. Ursula according to De Sancta Ursula: De undecim milibus Virginum martirum (1183), by Herman Joseph

Baeddo - Wife of the Visigothic Spanish king Reccared. Claimed to be a daughter of Arthur by Compendio Historial, by Esteban de Garibay y Zamalloa

Tortolina - a daughter of Arthur according to Pantochronachanon (1652), by Thomas Urquhart

*(Additional Source link about the Daughters of King Arthur: HERE)

[evedaser]

alright finished erec and enide. it may be harder for me to consolidate my thoughts as i’ve been reading it in much less of an obsessive haze than i did the others thus far. i also simply liked it less, but i’ll get to that. this is going to be much more pessimistic than all the others as well because im sitting in a government service office rn so im not exactly filled with excitement or anything

- i know this is the earliest of chrétien’s romances, so rather than being repetitive it’s actually establishing his patterns, but god this man. this man. every time anyone writes of a knight, they are always THE best and THE noblest. there can only be so many best and noblest knights my guy 😭 at least he does kind of acknowledge the others whom he favours and to an extent how they compare, mentioning them as equal or second to each other, or within the same class and quality.

- i opened this thinking erec was going to be such a wifeguy. the introduction to the edition im reading did rightly state the central problem of the story — that erec loves enide so greatly his knightly duties and glory begin to suffer — but he spends the entire second part of the story treating her like shit. having read how devoted he is to her from the first part, it’s hard to believe, it feels like you’re always waiting for him to drop the act and explain whatever kind of test he’s putting her through, but that part is all from enide’s perspective and no explanation ever comes, it’s so perplexing and frankly a bit disturbing.

- speaking of which i think i need to find a modern retelling of this i couldn’t stand the treatment of enide throughout this goddamn story. i love her, she’s a wonderful character and the most central a woman has been so far in the small selection of stories i have read. she’s never idle in her interactions, she’s quite strong willed and is deeply devoted, loyal, and caring for erec, for her family, and for all who rightly endear themselves to her. it’s just nice to have a character who is a normal and good person

- on a better note, the sparrow hawk competition was fucking fantastic. it was fun, interesting, and with quite a compelling antagonist as far as these things go. he was fun to hate, like a disney villain or a high school movie bully, and the length of the fight strang along the tension quite well instead of erec just instantly winning.

ok onto the bullshit

- love a man who has a good relationship with his father 🔥

- knights really do follow fucking pokémon logic. if you make eye contact you MUST do battle. what happened to “hello, how are you”. poor enide being subjected to this ridiculous culture 💀💀 some of those knights he fought were such assholes though lmao

- the thing with the giants was crrraaazyyyy someone teach these people some fucking first aid. enide didn’t even check his pulse or his breathing she just gave up!!

- FORCED MARRIAGE PLOT?????

- PERCEIVED ZOMBIE PLOT??????????

- not even gonna comment on the last part (with the joy of the court) tbh it was fun and erec was actually nice to his wife and that’s all i got for you

- on a whump note, i did appreciate that this one actually let erec be tangibly damaged by his wounds and gave him time to recover, i liked the inclusion of how weak he was. apart from erec, h o l y s h i t some of the injuries in that book. oh my god some of the injuries and deaths had me genuinely staring slack jawed at the page wdym he cut people in half or speared through their eye until their brain fell out the back what?? huh??? excuse me????

[sugar-coated-prat-dragon]

hii!! 😊👋🏻

is there any info on Arthur’s and Merlin’s horses in the books? their names, maybe their personalities? or anyone else's horse?

Hi! Thank you for the question. 🐎 😇

In “Valiant”, Arthur makes it clear that he has multiple horses and that his servant cares for all of them.

Arthur: “My horses need grooming ..”

In “Lancelot and Guinevere”, Merlin admits to never having ridden a horse before coming to Camelot and even now he preferred to walk, if the choice were offered to him.

Merlin treated any horses he encountered with a degree of suspicion and wariness.

Sadly, the feeling seemed to be mutual.

Nonetheless, Merlin’s horse in that moment was a placid mare which tolerated his presence and (simply followed Arthur's great, dark stallion).

- In “The Death of Arthur”, Merlin realized he’d need a dependable horse to get to the Isle of the Blessed- a horse which not only had to be fast, but it would also need great stamina to cope with the trek.

Since he was the prince’s servant, he had access to the royal stables and he took the prince's favourite stallion to use for his journey.

So in the books the only mentions are of Merlin having a placid mare and Arthur having a great, dark stallion, but unfortunately no names.

And of course, Merlin borrowed Arthur’s stallion in the episode ‘Le Morte D'Arthur’.

(Sources: Valiant, The Death of Arthur and Lancelot and Guinevere books)

Tagging: @samwinjester @godmerlin @tansyuduri @neptunesyellowsands

Horses mentioned Behind the Scenes with the actors:

Colin’s horse is a Welsh Cob sec. D named "Diablo". (Sadly, Diablo has only one eye because the other one had to be removed due to a tragic incident where he was kicked in the head when he was running with the mares, and because of the trauma, a cataract later formed in one eye. Which then had to be removed surgically).

Bradley's horses in show are called either Toranto/Torento, Flyer and Rabanete

Colin's horses in the show are called Diablo, Korra, and reportedly, Sabio (while filming in Wales)

Zaleno … was Angel's horse in the UK

Horses mentioned in the Arthurian legends: (I found these online; I can't speak for how accurate they are to the various legends)

Arthur's horses are Llamrei, the mare and Hengroen, the stallion.

Llamrei – This is the name of King Arthur’s mare. She was said to have been a gift from the Irish king, who had come to challenge Arthur’s rule.

Hengroen – This was King Arthur’s stallion. It was said to have been able to gallop across the sea.

There is also a rock in Wales called "Carn March Arthur", or the "Stone of Arthur's Horse", which is said to have a hoof print left by Llamrei while pulling the Addanc monster from Llyn Barfog.

Gwaine's horse in legend is Gringolet

Merlin describes Lancelot's horse as named Gringalet in the Lancelot-Grail Cycle, which is said to be due to its great strength. In The Awntyrs of Arthure, Gringalet is also called "Grissell" and is killed in combat while Gawain is riding it.

Gwaine's horse: Gringolet. His horse plays no wonderful part, but is always referred to as "Gawain's Horse, Gringolet." In French the name is Le Grin golet.

Galath – This was the name of one of King Arthur’s horses. It was said to have been able to run as fast as a swallow.

Passelande: Arthur's horse in Beroul's Tristran

Aubagu: Arthur's horse in Erec and Enide

Passebreul – This was the name of one of the horses of the knights of the Round Table.

Alfgar – This was the name of one of King Arthur’s horses.

Cremello – This was the name of one of the horses of the knights of the Round Table.

Dappled – This was the name of one of King Arthur’s horses.

Faeleas – This was the name of one of King Arthur’s horses.

Kestrel – This was the name of one of King Arthur’s horses.

King’s Ransom – This was the name of one of the horses of the knights of the Round Table.

Knight Errant – This was the name of one of the horses of the knights of the Round Table.

Liriel – This was the name of one of King Arthur’s horses.

Marigold – This was the name of one of the horses of the knights of the Round Table.

Misty – This was the name of one of King Arthur’s horses.

Nightshade – This was the name of one of the horses of the knights of the Round Table.

Saber – This was the name of one of the horses of the knights of the Round Table.

Stormy – This was the name of one of King Arthur’s horses.

Thunder – This was the name of one of the horses of the knights of the Round Table.

Topper – This was the name of one of the horses of the knights of the Round Table.

Tristram – This was the name of one of the knights of the Round Table.

Vanguard – This was the name of one of the horses of the knights of the Round Table.

Warlock – This was the name of one of the horses of the knights of the Round Table. (Ironic name 😅)

White Star – This was the name of one of the horses of the knights of the Round Table.

Windrider – This was the name of one of King Arthur’s horses.

Zephyr – This was the name of one of King Arthur’s horses.

Zulu – This was the name of one of the horses of the knights of the Round Table.

Badger – This was the name of one of King Arthur’s horses, known for its speed and agility.

Blackheart – This was the name of one of the horses of the knights of the Round Table, known for its fierce loyalty.

Blaze – This was the name of one of King Arthur’s horses, known for its fiery temperament.

Charger – This was the name of one of the horses of the knights of the Round Table, known for its strength and endurance.

Dragonfire – This was the name of one of King Arthur’s horses, said to have been able to breathe fire.

Gold Dust – This was the name of one of the horses of the knights of the Round Table, known for its shimmering coat.

Harrier – This was the name of one of the horses of the knights of the Round Table, known for its speed and agility.

Highflyer – This was the name of one of King Arthur’s horses, known for its ability to jump great distances.

Ironclad – This was the name of one of the horses of the knights of the Round Table, known for its strength and durability.

King’s Champion – This was the name of one of the horses of the knights of the Round Table, ridden by the most skilled and respected knights.

Nightingale – This was the name of one of King Arthur’s horses, known for its beautiful singing voice.

Starlight – This was the name of one of King Arthur’s horses, known for its sparkling, celestial appearance.

Sunburst – This was the name of one of King Arthur’s horses, known for its brilliant, radiant coat.

Valiant – This was the name of one of the horses of the knights of the Round Table, known for its bravery and courage.

Victory – This was the name of one of King Arthur’s horses, associated with triumph and success.

Wildfire – This was the name of one of the horses of the knights of the Round Table, known for its untamed spirit and intensity.

[filletedfennysnake]

💛🧑‍❤️‍💋‍🧑 For the ask game :^)

💛 (Sibling Dynamic That is NOT the Orkneys): okay so I know I’ve talked about this in the discord and pretty much all of it is in the realm of Headcannon Land but. daniel dindan brunor. I’ve thought about them so much… daniel, the oldest brother and the favorite, the only cis man and therefore the only child who could live up to his father’s expectations. dinadan, the middle child who can’t win– when he tries to apply himself to knightly activities, his father attribute his failures to his being intersex, and when he engages in things he actually enjoys (like music), his father insists he should stop because it’s not ‘manly’ (never mind that most knights know how to play an instrument). And baby brunor, the ‘daughter’ who knows he can never be open about himself so long as his father is alive, but secretly wishes to earn his respect. They’re probably equally spaced in age (maybe like a five year difference? Their mother probably had a lot of children but only they made it to adulthood), although dinadan and brunor are closer since dinadan basically raised him after their mother died in childbirth. dinadan was the more involved, naggy older brother who made sure that brunor ate and slept and had fitting clothes, whereas daniel was the detached, cooler older brother who taught him jousting and swordplay. daniel left home to go questing at a rather early age because he just. couldn’t take living with his father anymore (the guilt of leaving dinadan and brunor behind would never really leave him). dinadan got kicked out of the household some years later. After brunor sr. died (may or may not have been at the hands of his youngest son and not lancelot, as is so often claimed) brunor took his name, pronouns, and coat and set off into the world. what else. I think all three siblings have a weird relationship with dagonet. brunor thinks they’re in an age-gap situationship (They’re not. They’re the same age), dinadan has an antagonistic rivalry with him concerning who’s the Silliest Guy (dagonet thinks they’re flirting, but dinadan actually just. genuinely hates him). daniel had a fling with him once. dagonet only realized that all three of them were related years after the fact

🧑‍❤️‍💋‍🧑 (Crack Ship): there’s a fic that lives entirely in my head wherein enide and griflet are forced to spend the night in a spooky, secluded manor. a little will-they-won’t-they interspersed by flashbacks about eric’s shitty behavior (which build off each other– there’s a narrative happening in the present, in which enide has her own agency and is traveling with a dear friend who respects her, and one in the past, in which she’s. well basically I think eric abused her. god I’m so glad we all hate him). it would be a short fic; three chapters max. the climax would be 1) learning that enide killed eric with a dagger a couple years ago, with griflet helping her hide the body and 2) enide and griflet having sex. and then they would stay friends and not mention it ever again… anyway I think the dynamic would be neat. in erec et enide, griflet becomes a good pal of eric’s (at least I think that’s griflet. chretien used a spelling variation yet in gerald morris’ retelling, the sidekick guy is griflet sooo). but what if over time he realized just how badly eric was treating her? what if he kept hanging out with them because he was trying, in a confused and misaligned way, to protect her from eric’s attention. what if it got to the point where he considered killing eric himself. what if when she came to him one night crying and shaking and covered in eric’s blood he held her and told her how brave she was. and he burned the body himself and took her to camelot where he knew she’d get the necessary support as a widow. and he visits her over the years and starts brimming with feelings– romantic, platonic, sexual, he doesn’t even know– for the vibrant, funny, acerbic person she’s become after being freed from eric’s grip. and she starts thinking about him too, that silly, earnest man that she’s known for so many years. her friend! one of the few people who stood for her when it counted. but at the same time, she’s only just started allowing herself to want things again– food and respect and attention that doesn’t end in insults or bruises. the right to give as much of yourself as you want to another person, to not have everything taken from you by force. and that night at the manor, she realizes she’s ready to want him. and. and. and. anyway. I think enide/guinevere is objectively a better ship: griflet/enide is crack and not endgame for a reason. I do think there would be some ‘I didn’t help you then so I can’t possibly take advantage of you now’ versus ‘you see me mostly as a thing to protect yet in the end I had to save myself’ that would uh. yeah I don’t think they’d realistically be able to work through that. but it came to me in a dream and I want to believe it happened, however briefly. also I imagine that enide was finally able to gain a lot of weight after she killed eric, and I’m a big believer in giant woman/man who fits in her lap

[sunshinemoonrx]

Read: Chretien de Troyes

As I've talked about before I'm finally venturing into ~Arthurian romance proper~, so I've been reading the more-or-less first big writer of those, and my god man can you stop getting sidetracked to gush about your oshi Gawain for like. five seconds. (yes we will TALK about his epic yaoi duel)

Since he doesn't have a Welsh origin I've not actually encountered Lancelot before but he's so funny here, I'm kind of obsessed with him. what a ditz. however I will restrain myself to talking about the stories in order:

Erec & Enide

Right from this first story, it turned out I was right in my estimation in that other post: this anachronistic exaggeration of high medieval feudalism works much better for me when it's not skewing a vague effort at depicting Romano-British history, and is instead producing a fascinating sea of bottle-world castles, forests, towns, fairs and bizarre creatures for our hero to wander and adventure through, in which everywhere works by its own strange rules and what's over the next hill might as well be (and often is) a foreign country.

It helps that I enjoyed this story a lot more than Geraint, the 'Mabinogion romance' based on it (and unlike the other Mabinogion romances, probably the influence goes mostly or entirely in that direction). There, he just comes off as some guy being a huge dick to his wife for the flimsiest of both possible reasons. Here, they both come off as being on some completely absurd courtly honour nonsense that's decently entertaining, especially since we're already primed for that kind of behaviour by the whole "as you know when we hunt the white stag the king has to bestow a kiss on the fairest lady in the court and they are all ready to stab each other to be nominated" episode.

Speaking of which, okay. can I say something weird. romance in this setting is all focused around courtly yearning, right? admiration of beauty, a glance, a blush, deigning to show favour, that in itself is effectively making love, yes?

okay so what the hell is THIS

In a world of gazing, yearning, courting...the queen?? the king?? all the knights?? this is like the courtly-love version of public-use kink. this is insane. to say nothing of this later:

yeah??? girls??? (okay a quick search of this site reveals I am not the only person to have noticed this. good for them)

Cligés

You'd think that this being about Byzantine characters I'd be all over it, and I certainly enjoyed it okay, but for some reason I find it hard to remember what the hell happens in it, especially the first half about Alexander. (checks) oh yeah it's Guinevere gently guiding two idiots into confessing.

What I do find interesting about this one is Chretien's changing attitudes towards Tristan and Iseult. In Erec, he references having written about them, and there's certainly an undercurrent that he's kind of over it--he keeps comparing his heroes favourably to them--but it's still at least on the surface in a laudatory way. Erec was even braver than noble Tristan!! But either due to his own attitudes hardening or as a response to audience reaction, by Cligés he's having his leads say "dear, we must do our illicit affair properly, or people will start to say we're just like that HARLOT Tristan! Can you imagine ANYTHING worse??" Like, all right, I get it.

Yvain

Now this makes an interesting read, having already read the Mabinogion's Owain, which--unlike with Geraint vs Erec--I think I enjoy both equally. Owain is much stronger in the first half. It's much clearer that the realm of the fountain is Otherworldly, and much clearer on the basic logistics of Owain getting stuck between the gates and Luned subsequently hiding him than Yvain is. That, and the opening with Cai going "come onnnn tell me a storyyyyy it's storytime and I want a STORYYYY" is just hilarious.

But Yvain shines in the second half; it makes much more deliberate use of the lion, and while Owain reasserting its subject's place in pseudohistory as Owain mab Urien, prince of Rheged, is interesting, it's all a bit of a rushed conclusion, while Yvain has a lot of really cool stuff, like, of course...

Gawain And Yvain's Epic Battle of Love and Hate. Okay BOYS

Chretien loves Gawain so much, it's so funny. Always calling him "my lord", always saying "well he could've solved the problem but he was busy that day so our hero will have to do it". Especially with his later reputation as Guy Who Does His Best But Is Distinctly Flawed. Which is interesting! Because that kind of degradation has already happened to Cai, who as established I like a whole lot.

So I kind of thought the "downgraded to mr fucks up constantly" Kay in these stories would make me sad and miss my special boy, but whoops, I remembered that I actually love the "guy who causes all the problems" character type! So he continues to be my fave! Tee hee

(There does also seem to be a hardening of Chretien's attitudes over time here too--in Erec Kay is overly brusque and gets knocked out, but he's genuinely trying to be helpful to someone he sees in need. By Yvain, every time he says anything someone, including the narrator, is just like "my guy can you stop being so RUDE")

Anyway, this story takes place at the same time as Lancelot, which it was indeed written alongside, so Gawain being absent for much of Yvain is because he's off doing the plot of Lancelot. Which is about to become very funny.

Lancelot

WHY DID NO-ONE TELL ME LANCELOT WAS A BIMBO

"do you mean himbo" no. that is a distinct kind of stupid. this man spent an entire encounter just zoned out, no thoughts, head empty, while this knight yells at him "HEY. STOP. I HAVE TO GUARD THIS RIVER. I WILL FIGHT YOU IF YOU COME IN THE RIVER. ARE YOU LISTENING. STOP. HELLO?" and he just trots on in completely oblivious, just not listening at all until the knight goes OK FINE and knocks him off his horse into the river

Lancelot: what the FUCK where am I who are you Knight: I challenged you like three times dude Lancelot: I was THINKING ABOUT STUFF (reaches up and executes a perfect wrestling hold and almost pulls his leg out of his socket)

like. I. the bit where they're trapped between two gates and he just chuckles like Heh...this must be some kind of mystical illusion. Don't worry lads, I'll get us out of this (dramatically reveals he was raised by a fairy and she gave him a magic ring that dispels illusions) (it turns out this is not an illusion and they're just trapped between two real gates) ok nvm

I can't just recount the whole plot but. cutting a guy's head off because a pretty girl told him to. the queen calling out to him mid-fight so he'll see her and be fuelled by the power of Love but failing to consider she's behind him so he spends the next part of the fight backhanding the shit out of this guy while facing the other way so he can look at her. this AIRHEAD

To go back to what I said about Gawain, it's absolutely hilarious that Yvain says he was busy on a noble quest with Lancelot so couldn't help out with all that, and then in Lancelot that amounts to the two of them split up to enter the enemy kingdom by two roads and each has to cross a river, and then Gawain...vanishes from the story. For weeks. And they finally go back and look for him and he is floating face-down in the river. Failed to cross it I guess?? They literally fish him out with sticks...

Anyway. I think it's interesting Lancelot escapes a tower with a pickaxe near the end, because this is a reworking of the older, mostly-lost story of Gwenhwyfar's abduction by Melwas, right, and a depiction of that, the Modena archivolt, shows one of the defenders as an unarmoured man with a pickaxe. Interesting piece of the puzzle!

Perceval

It's interesting that this is unfinished when it's already way long for one of Chretien's romances...and also that this is the one that so captivated the medieval audience's imagination. They couldn't get enough of it. So many continuations, attempts to finish it, reworkings, retellings...I mean, that is the essence of the 'Grail' idea, right, the endless quest for transcendental mystery and perfection. It inherently resists completion.

For the record, I don't even know how to compare this to Peredur. It is notable that that story changes the framing of his mom's advice--making it kind of weird advice to begin with that you could still interpret charitably, but the naive Peredur follows the letter and not the spirit; while in Perceval it's perfectly sensible advice but he just wasn't listening so he follows a half-garbled version of it. And if, as Killings & Widger's edition argues, the castle Perceval comes to rule is meant to be a kingdom of the dead, played down or partially-understood in its transmission from a lost Welsh or Breton source, you'd expect Peredur to add that back in like Owain with its Otherworldly fountain-realm, but it extremely doesn't.

It is incredibly funny that, once again, the reason we never finish Perceval's story is because Chretien couldn't resist taking a 3,000 line detour about Gawain's adventures in Everyone Hates You Land.

Special shoutout to this girl who starts following him around with a like. Knight humiliation kink???

She gets way hornier than this about but I can't be bothered to explain the context for most of it, except that we do need to talk about this section:

Because we have come FULL CIRCLE to that stuff I said about Enide near the start! Like, this is genuinely interesting to me--in Chretien's first romance we have all this charged delighted Attention on the lady being raised up to splendour and beauty, and in his last we have all this charged delighted Attention on the knight being broken down into shame and humiliation. There's something here.

Gawain spends most of this subplot with people mysteriously accusing him of various increasingly absurd crimes and riding around trying to clear his name so it's also very funny when this one guy is like "it's you! The motherfucker who made me eat dog food for a month!" and he's like. Oh I did do that one lol

Anyway, Perceval has some interesting gender, to me,

I dunno, this line just really stuck in my head.

I will say for one of these romances, not having the ending is way more consequential than for a lot of stories. Chretien loves to set up a bunch of mysterious characters and situations (very reminiscent of an RPG character running around picking up and resolving a bunch of different sidequests in random order) and then connect and explain them all at once at the end to produce a cohesive conclusion. So not having the ending means so much is left unexplained and mysterious! Hell, the Grail (and the accompanying lance) here isn't even explained, the Jesus backstory comes in from later writers; it's holy in some way, but who knows. Is it an adaptation of the severed head from Peredur, or the other way around? Who knows! And that exact ambiguity is presumably part of why the Grail story stuck in the popular imagination from the 12th century through to today.

Perceval goes questing, questing on, ever on...

[gingersnaptaff]

enid 💕 for this post https://www.tumblr.com/mordredpendragon/774383232923893760?source=share

Hi, hi, hi!! Hope ur well, sorry u were waiting for so long. 😭😭😭 BUT ENID, MY BELOVED!!!!!!

favorite thing about them

She is so, so, so dear to me. It's the fact that while Geraint punishes her for being all, 'YO! PEOPLE ARE GONNA FUCKIN KILL U, U DUMBASS PIECE OF SHIT!' she recognises she needs to break the strict instructions he's placed on her because God knows somebody had to be the fucking adult around here and it won't be this fuckin schmuck.

least favorite thing about them

Babes, divorce his arse. Ur legally allowed in Welsh law. I will be ur defence attorney. Idk anything about law but I am WILLING!

favorite line

it's a favourite kine about her and Guin but:

'That service done so graciously would bind

The two together; fain I would the two

Should love each other. How can Enid find

A nobler friend?'

Thank you, Alfred Tennyson.

brOTP

Her and Gawain. Also her and Luned. I don't have anything other than vibes for these but Luned would be like a fuckin chihuahua nipping at Geraint's ankles the second he said something snide, while Gawain would chuck him out of a godamn window. Also Owain and Morfudd too!

OTP

Yeah, I know u were all waiting for it but GUIN AND ENID!!!! DHDDJDDJJDDJ VERY DEAR TO ME I ADORE THEM. TENNYSON, THE ONLY GOOD THING U DID WHEN U WROTE IDYLLS OF THE KING WAS GUIN AND ENID HAVING A SAPPHIC LONGING. Also, in The Mabinogion Gwenhwyfar is like 'dw about ur injured husband, come to my tent instead' AND U KNOW THEY F U C K E D.

nOTP

Her and Geraint. Fuckin GRIM. Also her and Erec.

random headcanon

She is an excellent horse rider and I think she was like out at all hours as a young girl riding her horse. Also I headcanon she's excellent at poetry, like she writes poems and everybody raves about them for weeks. Plus I think she can actually speak Cornish really well considering her fuckin nightmare of a husband comes from there.

unpopular opinion

Idk if this is unpopular per se but unless ur doing something revolutionary then I don't think she should stay with Geraint. I don't care if it was acceptable then or if it goes against the grain of her character, she's a human being. Don't reduce her to Geraint's fawning wife or I'm coming to ur house and clouting u around the head with my slippers.

song i associate with them (maybe) (depends on the character)

For some reason Autumnal by Colorama always makes me think of her.

favorite picture of them

This one:

It's Enid, Guin, and Vivian by Eleanor Fortescue-Brickdale. I love it!

[gellavonhamster]

I wanna start reading Arthurian…..where should I begin

*rubs hands* oh excellent

I'd say one way would be to pick characters or events you'd like to read about the most and start with the texts focusing on them. @fuckyeaharthuriana has a lot of lists of different works, including those sorted by character (links in the blog description). Then, if you decide you enjoy Arthuriana in general, you can move to other texts. Another way would be to start with something well-known and short. I believe Sir Gawain and the Green Knight fits the bill well. The translation linked is more like an example, because there's a lot of them, and I frankly don't know which to suggest best; the one I read is by Bernard O’Donoghue, but I can't find it online. I've also heard very good things about Tolkien's translation - understandable, because duh, Tolkien - but haven't read it (yet). The works of Chrétien de Troyes are also very good and readable and imo very well represent what a medieval romance is. My favourite is Yvain: Knight of the Lion, and I haven't read his Perceval yet, but I liked all the other of his romances too. (Ok, maybe not Erec and Enide, but that's because I found the main character very annoying)

I've compiled a small list of Arthurian texts I recommend before when answering a similar ask, and I still stand by it, except, taking into account what I've read since then, I'd also add La Tavola Ritonda - an Italian Arthurian romance mostly focused on Tristan and Isolde, weird and violent but also very enjoyable, in my opinion, Parzival (vol. 1, vol. 2) by Wolfram Von Eschenbach - a German romance and my favourite version of the Grail story so far, and Lancelot-Grail aka the Vulgate Cycle + the Post-Vulgate. I'm not sure starting with the latter is a good idea, though, because it's five huge volumes, very readable (except for The History of the Holy Grail. You can skip that, if you ask me) and with a great impact on the later Arthurian texts, including Le Morte d'Arthur, but HUGE, it took me half a year, lol. (Le Morte is also long and often drier in style, but still not THAT long). But I simply had to mention it because it's such a foundational work. A part of the Vulgate Cycle has been adapted by Patricia Terry and Samuel N. Rosenberg as Lancelot and the Lord of the Distant Isles or, The Book of Galehaut Retold. It's short and beautiful, and you don't need to be familiar with the rest of the Vulgate to read it.

Oh, and if you're interested in more modern retellings, Idylls of the Queen by Phyllis Ann Karr is an episode from Le Morte d'Arthur retold as a murder mystery solved by Kay and Mordred, and it's amazing. Also The Squire's Tales series by Gerald Morris is a lot of fun, kind of for a younger reader but very well-written and funny, even though some of his choices regarding certain characters drive me up the wall a little bit.

Also, here's a great site by @tillman with a lot of links to various Arthurian texts!

[grail-lifesupport]

Very cute that Kay and Bedivere immediately adopted this lil kid but both Kay and Bedivere have 4 children already, Garanwyn, Celemon, Amren and Eneuog. 5 if you count Kay's son Gronosis from Chrétien de Troyes.

Good lord they have too many children.

Source: Culhwch ac Olwen

Erec and Enide

[dullyn]

the entire beginning of Erec and Enide being that King Arthur wants to kill a special stag (and will also have to kiss the most beautiful maiden) is so funny because it devolves so heavily from that.

the story does stick to the the common set up of most arthurian romances in that Knight X goes on a quest and somehow ends up on three sub-quests as well, running into Knights Y and Z somewhere along the way (then there’s always like minimum two maidens involved). it’s just amusing that such an adventure started with Arthur wanting to go on a hunt.

the common set up does make me happy though because i just think it’s neat that such a repeated narrative can yield so many different stories that are all so entertaining, along with being adapted so many times that there are then even more stories. plus it itches my brain in a nice way because the stories are like Ol’ Reliable.

also shoutout to Yder, son of Nut.

[oceansatedogs]

Passages from Erec and Enide I really like

[gawrkin]

WAIT- if Le Morte De Arthur isn't the original thing to read first when beginning arthuriana, which one is🤔? since I've seen people complain about malory and some of his changes to characters such as lancey

I would recommend to you Geoffrey of Monmouth's Historia Regum Britanniae, the big pseudo-historical chronicle detailing the history of Britain and her rulers. Link to a Translation HERE.

More specifically, if you just want read only about King Arthur's reign, Books 9 to 11

You can also read Books 6 and Book 8, if you want the entire narrative to include the deeds of Uther, Merlin, Aurelius Ambrosius and Vortigern. Book 7 is this huge political prophecy Geoffrey wrote and really isn't relevant to the story.

You can read all of Historia if you want to, but the earlier books don't really factor into the Arthurian narrative, so skip onwards to Book 9 if want this to be shorter than Le Morte.

The reason I would recommend you Historia Regum Britanniae first is because:

Historia is the ground zero of the Arthuriana. This is where King Arthur and his story caught on with storytellers; there are other older stories and folktales but this where a large majority of the popular tradition unfolded from.

Arthur is the main character here. The spotlight is completely on him without other characters (coughLancelotcough) stealing the word count. So you'll get a hang of his initial character before later stories altered it.

It will give you the basic chronology of Arthur's reign in a simplified manner. You wont find the adventures of the knights like Gawain and Lancelot here - those are the later additions and reading Historia first will help in grasping the basic skeleton of Arthur's story and personal timeline.

It will allow you to spot all the later changes made to the story and characters when you start read the other works. It helps with analysing and comparing the stories and characters.

The English Translations (the ones that I can find online) of Historia are much easier to read than the Old, Medieval English of Le Morte.

Afterwards, you can go read the Romances of Chretien de Troyes (Erec and Enide, Cliges, Knight of the Cart, Knight of the Lion, Perceval and its Continuations) intermixed with whatever romance catches your eye (I recommend the welsh story Culhwch and Olwen). Chretien is pretty much the Father of the Romances and the inventor of nearly other important elements, like Sir Lancelot and the Grail Quest.

From here on, your set to read everything else in whatever manner you can choose, especially the Big Bad Monster-Truck-of-a-narrative called Vulgate Cycle.

**Note: Historia Regum Britanniae, as well as some of Chretien works recommended above, also have adaptations and variants that altered and introduced some elements not found in the original source. Famously, Roman de Brut, an adaptation of Historia by Robert Wace, introduced the iconic Round Table, which isn't found in Geoffrey's original.

[evedaser]

JUST FINISHED YVAIN!!! i really liked that i really liked that i really liked that

kay sucks. again. hes barely in this at all but i was laughing out loud reading him getting told off, getting compared to a literal pile of shit

you know sometimes i get so busy enjoying the book i forget about the racism. and the sexism. sorry shall we go over the ugliest most terrible peasant who ever lived being the only dark skinned person i can remember in any of the five romances, and yvain relying on the flightiness of a woman’s mood in order to MARRY HER. TWO OR THREE DAYS AFTER KILLING HER HUSBAND.

this author is fucking in love with gawain, and you know what i am too

ah yes. deadlines. the bane of my yvain’s life.

not him going insane then getting fucking domesticated by some random guy in a hut

WHERE DID THE LION COME FROM???

ALSO THATS NOT HOW LIONS WORK????????? training a domesticated DOG takes longer than that

suicide prevention via conveniently timed maidens in towers crying out to be saved from their impending executions, 100% effective every time

the sequence of the giant was pretty good except for the fact that the battle had an ongoing food metaphor. chrétien i don’t care if you were late for lunch i never want you to describe blood as sauce ever again, or the amount of flesh flayed from the body as enough to grill. in fact nobody ever should do this unless you’re doing cannibalism

“So the two of them rode along talking until they approached the town of Dire Adventure*.” - oh, a footnote! it’ll probably be a note on the translation cause that’s a dumb ass town name - the footnote: “This long episode… has been widely discussed as an example of social realism, with Chrétien protesting exploitation in the local silk industry;” (it then goes on to explain medieval monetary divisions. what the fuck just happened.)

“thank you for saving my town! marry my daughter and have my land!” / “no, sorry, in a bit of a rush + i can’t marry your daughter” / “i'm not letting you leave until you marry her” / “no really i have to go” / “well fuck you then!”

yvain and gawain should kiss actually. they basically did anyway

that resolution… sucked. worst part of the whole thing, easily. she didn’t want to forgive him!!! wdym they lived happily after!?!?!?

overall i really quite enjoyed that, and it’s quite clear to me that chrétien refined his craft dramatically over time. erec and enide was ok, cligés was… fine. then lancelot, then yvain, then perceval, each were so fun and each better than the last.

overall, i enjoyed the five romances quite a lot!! the action sequences were awesome, and the longer battles especially stood out. the battle with the knight of the sparrow hawk, alexander’s battle with the traitor of london, and yvain’s fight to defend lunette from the pyre in particular stand out in my mind but that’s also cause i read those recently. his writing certainly has its uh… stylistic features like his inability to saw anything with any level of conciseness ever, or his over the top personification of metaphysical concepts and the like that goes on much longer than it has any right to. i’m so glad to have read them, but i am also so excited to move on. finally.

[rjalker]

[ID: The meme of Padme and Anakin talking in a field, with Anakin now albeled, "Erec", and Padme labeled "Me". Erec first says calmly: "Enide, no matter what happens, no matter what you see, you must not turn back to speak to me, and must stay moving forward and never stopping for anything." Me responds, smiling, "Because you're going through an enchanted wood and that will activate a curse, right?" Erec, now staring ominously, says, "I'm now threatening to kill Enide for warning me that someone was about to attack me from a direction I couldn't see." Me says, "Oh, you're just an abusive asshole, aren't you?" End ID.]