#i just think a confrontation between robin and nancy would be really interesting

[bugsbenefit]

Even leaving aside the rest of that ask about Karen, how are the show runners "glazing Cara" according to st twitter now lmao. I swear no one on there understands the concept of just liking the people you work with...

very good point. tbh 'glazing' really lost it's meaning. that's just the thing you say now about characters showing up in the show or marketing that you don't care about that much

but looking at how fandom treats certain characters it is kind of apparent how Karen isn't really seen as big of a deal as the show actually makes her in general. (at last in hyper invested fandom spaces. more regular viewers see her as much more of a main character) which i think causes a bit of dissonance when the show keeps promoting her. because if you think she's as unimportant of a side character as say, Dustin's mom, then you probably would think her constantly showing up on posters and bts footage is undeserved glazing

the thing is that Karen is actually kind of important. she's absolutely not a background character

you have the primary mains like Joyce, Hopper, the kids. more secondary mains that don't really have the hard hitting plot points of the show happen to them but are fleshed out and who the writers still take care writing like Steve, Robin etc. and then Karen falls in somewhere between a secondary and tertiary protagonist

she actually gets things to do each season. she has character arcs. from actually meeting and being suspicious of Brenner in s1, to her worry about Nancy in s3, the Billy situation, even s4 ends with her and Holly at the window looking out at the spores

actual side characters in the show, like Ted, the Sinclairs, Claudia Henderson, don't have any arcs to their characters. they're background decorum when their children (the actual protagonists) are home or need to talk to someone

but Karen falls much closer to actual protagonist status. which also explains why she's consistently featured in the marketing alongside the other mains

which is how the Byers and Wheelers turned into the two big families the show kind of revolves around to begin with. we know the most about them because almost all family members are protagonists in their own right. you have the kids Mike and Will, Nancy and Jonathan. and then the moms. the only difference being that Karen is kept in the dark about the UD plot and Joyce got thrown directly into it in s1 because it was her son that went missing

and the thing that people seem to get stuck on about Karen is that she's the only protag that doesn't explicitly know about the UD

which, honestly, makes her kind of interesting. especially with where they'll take that in s5, because she'll have to be confronted with what's been going on eventually. and what has been tormenting both her children for years. hell, she had such a close encounter with Billy in s3, she would have been in Heather's place that season hadn't Billy still had some semblance of control at that point. and she isn't even aware

Karen has been involved in the UD plot for seasons, there just wasn't any payoff to it yet because she doesn't know

Karen Wheeler, tight rope walker when it comes to getting as close as humanly possible to the supernatural plot without having to actually confront it

but it really boils down to, Karen is, and always has been an important character and the marketing has always reflected that

side note but what i've also seen cause a lot of the 'they're just needlessly glazing xyz' complaints is that sometimes it's just people being pissy their favourite characters aren't getting a singular spotlight on them. i've mainly seen it from solo El or Will stans (still exist in the year of the lord 2024) who don't care about the rest of the cast or plot outside of one character. so when Karen who, 'doesn't even know about the UD' gets so much s5 marketing that's hype that could have gone to someone more important in their minds. again, glazing entering the pantheon of words that lost all meaning on social media

[strangertheories]

the biggest reason I don't rlly like romantic ronance is because I don't really ship nancy with anyone - I am a firm believer in Single Nancy Supremacy! I think that the two romantic relationships we see her have (with steve and with jonathan) both struggled because of her grief in relation to barb - its much clearer with her relationship to steve as it literally breaks down as a result of her grief and guilt and that idea of faking happiness, and I think that may also be the case with her relationship with jonathan as well, and we know that she's been questioning things about the relationship and hiding that she feels unfulfilled, though in her eyes she feels like she wants steve, but i think she just remembers how easy things were with steve before all the upside-downy stuff and wants to go back to how things were back then. I feel as though she struggles in those relationships because the type of companionship she is searching for is the easy, comfortable, platonic love and closeness she had with barb back then, and its clearly a huge part of her character arc, since losing barb is what caused her to become actively involved in all the upside-downy stuff and piqued her interest in journalism through her work with murray (alongside her clear desire for solving mysteries and the like). what nancy needs right now isn't a romantic relationship, but a platonic female friendship, a connection that is not fueled by anything sexual at all - hence my stance as a Platonic ronance truther!! we already see the closeness and trust the two of them have with each other as they scheme to break in to see victor creel and as they work together later on, and I think that kind of platonic connection between two women will be wonderful for the both of them, and robin as well deserves a platonic friendship that isn't just with the guy people keep thinking she's in love with. I really hope the show does take it that way, especially since platonic relationships have played such a key role throughout the show (the party's dedication to each other (excluding byler and their romantic love for each other but thats a whole other thing), dustin's relationships with steve and eddie, platonic stobin ofc, jonathan and argyles friendship (this one is so important to me as well as robin and nancy because of how dedicated they are to each other), and especially the friendship between el and max (I could write a whole nother essay about that tbh)) and I think it would be a wonderful ending for both robin and nancy to find that friendship with each other!!

This is completely fair and valid, plus a good analysis. For me personally, I prefer Ronance to single Nancy. Firstly because I just like their dynamic being 80s sapphic enemies/rivals to lovers. Secondly, I think Robin dating an established character is easier writing wise cause the show adds too many people and has less time to flesh out Vickie because of it. However, I also like it because of Nancy's character arc.

I think her character is very male centric and the writers seem to abandon her life goals to push her into the box of being Steve's suburban wife or in other words, her canon worst nightmare. Despite being the badass feminist character, she feels so focused around men and Steve and it's really odd to me. Especially how weirdly confrontational she was to Robin because she assumed she was dating Steve. They broke up two years ago and Nancy never even loved him, it's so odd.

Anyways to circle back to my point, I like the idea of Nancy's ending not being her settling down with Steve. I'm very anti-St4ncy if you can't tell. I'm less opposed to Jonathan and Nancy but even then, she's still at risk of falling into her nightmare with him. I think this is part of the reason why single Nancy is good and canon wise, I think that's her best outcome.

However, Nancy says right from the start that she wants to truly rebel. She dates Steve as an act of rebellion but because she's rebelling in the way everyone else does, it's ultimately a way for her to safely fit in and tell herself she's doing something radical as Jonathan points out. She hides her true feelings because whilst she knows she won't be satisfied by the life she's heading towards, she's scared to do anything otherwise.

I think 80s badass sapphic feminist Nancy dating a woman would both act as her embracing her true feelings and rebelling away from the trap of being a suburban housewife that her mother fell into. Single Nancy can work for that too, but I think having Nancy canonically like girls would perfectly fit into her framework of actually truly rebelling against expectations instead of seeking safety in a boy she tried to force herself to love.

I think these two opinions can coexist but that's just why I think romantic Ronance is great for Nancy. I do agree that platonic relationships would be good for her, but I also think that this relationship romantically would work with her character arc too. Thanks for the ask!

[ironworked]

60 Sec Rec: All Rise

All Rise revolves around the personal lives of judges, prosecutors, and public defenders in a LA courthouse. The plot follows newly appointed Judge Lola Carmichael, a highly regarded and impressive former DDA who immediately pushes the boundaries and challenges the expectations of what a judge can be. [Wikipedia]

This show has a lot of very interesting characters and a strong emphasis on friendship (work friends, new friends, BFFs...), one of the most important ones is between Lola and Mark; their chemistry is FANTASTIC, they're a team and they never try to hint at romance. They're platonic ride-or-dies (not the only ones in the series) and I love it. The series is soapy and fun, but it also gets into the nitty-gritty, the deeper conversations and issues:

"At the root of this is a question of the entire justice system. Are you putting too much on this? It's about retribution versus rehabilitation, and are some crimes beyond rehabilitation? I get it. I do. I want it all, too. Dismantle systemic racism. Reform parole. Pursue restorative justice. I want that. But, one fight at a time, and you have to know which fight you are fighting right now."

"De-escalation training, tearing down the blue wall of silence which protects abusive policing. More effective training for police officers dealing with crisis intervention. I'm gonna bring this back around to the dangers of under-policing, grassroots organizations have long offered up solutions to these issues. Real progress would be city and police leaders sitting down with them. Not just every other quarter."

"But you weren't really hearing me, Lisa. Allies don't wanna listen. They want to tell us everything that's going right. Yeah, sure. All of those things are true. George Floyd is dead, and yes, his death unleashed outrage. But you know what else it did? It made a whole lot of white Americans uncomfortable. Why do you think we are even debating whether or not to teach Black history, which is American history, in our schools? A lot of white people don't want to confront the truth. They would rather just ignore it. White people don't deal well with guilt. You think guilt is heavy? Think about everything that we carry, Lisa. And all we ask is for people to just see it from our side. To acknowledge the problems."

Created by Greg Spottiswood (Remedy, Frontier). Written by mostly relative newcomers!. Directed by Michael M robin (NYPD Blue, The Closer), Paul McCrane (Major Crimes, ER), Ceryl Dunye (Pride, The Umbrella Academy)... Starring Simone Missick, Wilson Bethel, Jessica Camacho, J. Alex Brinson, Ruthie Ann Miles, Lindsay Mendez, Marg Helgenberger, Lindsey Gort, Audrey Corsa, Reggie Lee...

Previous: Deadloch - Dead Boy Detectives - The Tick - This Close - Kung Fu - Nancy Drew - Kevin Can Fuck Himself - Silo - The Flight Attendant - Severance - Hacks - Hit The Floor - Black Sails - 12 Monkeys - T@gged - The Diplomat - The Mick - Timeless - UnReal - Kings

[smalltownrobin]

I do get agreeing to disagree, but there is still some things here I want to dispute, aside from just saying it's reaching or jumping through hoops to conclude.

By your logic, Vickie did laugh at Robin's joke. Vickie said she thought Tammy sounded like Kermit, then Robin said she thought it was Miss Piggy, and then Vickie laughed. That was Robin's own take on the muppet joke, and that is what made Vickie laugh.

I'm also going to play the audhd card here, when Vickie answers Robin with "no" at her perceived prompt to continue a conversation, I don't think that's her shutting her out. She answered her question truthfully, interpreting it the way exactly the way it was worded. Robin asked if she was asking her a question, and Vickie wasn't, so she told her so, maybe not even realising her answering as such would embarrass Robin. Disaster audhd coded sapphics are just going to act like that, it was very unlikely a move out of disinterest on Vickie's part. Robin most likely didn't even mean it to prompt a conversation, she just lost sense of what she was saying out of panic. Neither of them choosing to keep whispering in this moment doesn't indicate a lack of interest or trouble between them.

The thing with Vickie in warzone I really do think is up to her being underdeveloped and not given any more time to indicate her growing feelings and probable sexuality crisis. I guess it really is up to interpretation, but her face and actions to me in that moment just read so much like she's conflicted, pushing away the picture perfect relationship she has, because she's having thoughts she maybe doesn't quite understand, or maybe even doesn't want. She has the perfect loving boyfriend, but she can't stop thinking about that girl from band, who is suddenly right over there staring at her. She's suddenly confronted with it when she's in a situation she thinks she should be happy in. Her reaction just feels too dark for it to be something simpler.

Steve licking his lips also to me just appears like he's in thought, wondering how to react in the face of his best friend seeing her crush is taken (and seemingly straight) when he convinced her she liked her. He's bad at comforting people, he was with Nancy in s2, here he hesitates to even touch Robin's shoulder to comfort her. None of it seems at all selfish, or anything to do with a connection between him and Vickie.

Again with Vickie at the relief centre, it really does seem more simple to read it as her looking at everyone she's supposed to be here to help. She feels bad she's prioritising her own "dumb" love life problems when there's real issues going on around them. This is exactly what Robin does, too, telling Steve she doesn't care about Vickie having a bf when they have to save the world. They both feel there's more pressing issues to deal with, but can't help the pull of thinking about their love life. Whether this comes up again in s5 with them or not, we'll see.

The thing about the Maya interview... that is constantly misinterpreted. It's from a video interview, not a written one. Quotes are pulled and twisted and written in such a way that screws her meaning (she actually didn't even say the part about the pb&j interpretation, that was whatever reporter wrote this up). They always do it to her, and she's stated multiple times how much she hates it.

In my interpretation, when Maya said she felt mixed (all the way back in mid 2023 btw, before she'd gotten all the s5 scripts), it was to do with what people would focus on with Robin's character. She values Robin's friendship with Steve because she values family and friendship in her own life. She doesn't want Robin having a gf to be the centre of her character because Robin is so much more than a lesbian in a relationship. She's intelligent, she's funny, she's a good friend, she is more than just her sexuality, but the first question she was asked about s5 long before filming even started was about her having a gf.

(she also always gives the vibe she hates questions about Nancy always being about the love triangle, even she gets those questions as well as Natalia, and has made it clear she thinks Nancy is so much more than which boy she chooses)

(she then answered no to both Steve and Jonathan but I couldn't get the cc ugh)

Basically, at least in my interpretation based on how I believe I know her, Maya wants female characters to be more than just romantic interests, sapphic or not. She wasn't at all hinting at any sort of alternative interpretation of rovickie, and has even since filming started said that she is rooting for them.

A lot of the stuff about misleading and upturned interpretations barely makes sense to me, I will be honest, but I do think that that isn't the case every single time, and we shouldn't expect it to be. Some things are face value, and some things aren't, I think it depends on how easy the subversions are to spot. This feels too hard for it to be intentional.

Steve being in their only three scenes to me just feels like they need to drop him in as the supportive bestie because sapphics getting a scene on their own would either be missed or taken badly by general audiences. They need Steve to do stuff so they can clap and cheer, because he's their golden boy. He isn't even relevant in the pb&j scene (at least by the common interpretation), but they stick his face at the end just because "look he's a supportive bestie and supportive ally, don't we all love him, look at that smile, our bestest babysitter". It's not plot relevance, it's for the vibes.

(minor s5 spoiler hint) Steve is also seemingly separated from Robin and Vickie for some time in s5, so him being in every scene of theirs won't last.

I think I went on longer than I intended to about some points, but some things I really wanted to explain properly, and apparently the way I do that is a lot of words. Again, subverting the expectation with Vickie would be malicious queerbaiting, one I don't believe they would be able to get their actors involved in, particularly Amybeth, who is proudly bisexual and advocates for queer and trans rights and representation. We also just get so little about them anyway, so if the queerbaiting was intentional, they'd give us more to make it more convincing.

Vickie is straight

... and she has a crush on Steve

I know how controversial it is to state such an opinion given how Vickie seems to be one of the few characters in the show who actually seem queer. Yet if we are being honest she has never expressed any direct or indirect signs of actually being in love with Robin. It's Robin who is incredibly biased as she has a crush on Vickie and Steve who is trying to be supportive of Robin who gave us this assumption.

This whole thing is not as bad as it seems though. I can promise you this. So if you still care let me explain to you why I think Vickie is straight and has a crush on Steve.

Part 1: The Muppet joke

While still in the car with Steve in early S4 Robin gets reminded of her own advise: Just be true to yourself and stop pretending to be someone you're not. We need to keep this in mind as she is soon shown to not follow said advise.

When Steve reminds Robin at the basketball game that Tammy Thompson does sound like a Muppet she agrees with him. Vickie overhears this and in turn agrees with Robin.

The joke however doesn't originate from Robin. She just repeated what Steve told her before. Therefore the joke that made Vickie laugh comes from Steve. Or in other words: It was Steve who made Vickie laugh and not Robin.

We even get conformation of this a bit later in episode 2 when Steve admits and agrees out loud that it was his joke that made Vickie laugh.

Robin wasn't entirely herself.

While everyone is looking straight ahead it's Vickie who makes a point not to look in Robins direction after Robin is embarrassed of herself. There is distance between them.

Part 2: Vickie and Robin (and Steve) meet at the Weapon Store

It's Robin who notices Vickie first in the weapon store which is followed by Steve looking at her as he knows she has a crush on Vickie which is then followed by both of them looking sad as Vickies boyfriend enters the scene.

Robin is obviously sad because her crush has a boyfriend while Steve is just sad for his friend.

This shot is often brought up to proof that Robin is standing between Vickie and Dan as it's believed that her crush on Vickie is reciprocated but I don't think this is what it means exactly. It's Robins POV and she believes her feelings to Vickie are reciprocated so she sees herself as standing in between them.

But is it true? Let's look at what Vickie sees next.

Vickie notices the both of them and while Robin is just staring at her Steve is licking his lips. Then Robin turns around and leaves while Steve is still looking at Vickie and Dan and then smiles awkwardly at them.

So Steve is licking his lips and then smiles at Vickie and Dan. What message would Vickie receive here? My guess would be 1) Steve and Robin are close and 2) Steve might like Vickie as well.

This however is the last look we get of Steve in this scene. It's his back while he is still looking after Robin. So whatever made him lick his lips and smile is no longer of interest to him the moment Robin leaves. I think this means that he is Robins friend first and foremost. He is not romantically interested in Vickie and doesn't reciprocate her feelings at all.

Robin is gone and Steve has turned his back on Vickie but her gaze still lingers. Maybe her feelings towards her own boyfriend aren't as sincere as it seems and everything considered I think it's fair to ask who this is truly about? Robin or Steve? Is she saying the truth when she makes it about Robin who she did meet in band or is she using Robin as a shield as she doesn't want to admit to her boyfriend that she has a crush on another man aka Steve?

In the end she looks back towards her boyfriend and then again to the place where Robin and Steve just were. Is he perhaps still standing there?

Then we get a scene transition to Nancy holding a very long gun. It's not subtle at all.

Part 3: Providing Food for the Suffering

There is light behind Robin which can indicate that she is the one who is most sincere in this scene. This makes sense as it is true that Robin has a crush on Vickie.

It's Vickie who gives her the information that Dan is no longer her boyfriend but from the scene in the weapon store she also knows that Robin and Steve are close. So everything she says to Robin is likely to reach Steve as well which means that Robin could be the one to tell Steve that Vickie is single again and therefore available to him.

First notice how Vickie wears spiral earrings. This is very interesting to me as it's triangle imagery that is used to indicate queerness in the show. So here we have the supposed love interest of one of the only confirmed queer characters in the show not wearing triangle imagery when it really matters. Why? Because she is straight.

Vickie also mentions how she rambles about her boyfriend when there are people out there suffering at which point in time she looks up and slightly to her right. Later when the scene transitions from Robin and Vickie to Steve we also get him at a alight angle which to me indicates that Vickie was looking at him as she was lifting her head.

It's Steve who Vickie perceives as the one suffering and who she wants to provide with food. Or to put it a bit differently: It's Steve she has a crush on and who she wants to be with and support.

Steve on the other hand is also smiling and looking at Robin and Vickie. He is happy for the both of them as everything seems to be working out for Robin and Vickie which could not be further from the truth. He's also shaking his head just slightly. Most likely because he thinks a certain assumption he's made just an episode earlier turned out to be wrong.

That assumption about Vickie pausing Fast Times at 53:05 however might be true after all. Steve is just misreading the signs Robin and Vickie are giving off at the gym.

Tbc in a reblog because I almost hit image limit. Look here.

[findafight]

Kinda want to write a one-sided ronance post S4 au (within a fix it obvs) where the older teens start actually hanging out and Stobin (eventually + Vickie)confuse literally everyone. They greet each other with cheek kisses, call each other babe (or "Stevie Baby". Listen. Robin calls him bud or buddy or bub or bubba or babe and it's like why so many B's?? Argyle is vibing with it though and joins the bud train) and one time at two in the morning had a coordinated ramble about the names of the cats they will eventually get. (Sassafras, moonshine, and Garborator)

Nancy and Steve haven't really talked about anything, other than Steve saying "hey. I'm sorry if whatever I said weirded you out. I was definitely a bit delirious and Robin and Eddie AND Dustin were all making comments about winning you back or whatever which is stupid, you made it clear where you stood with me. Which wasn't with me. That's fine. and like. Okay yeah when we were together I'd daydream about you being beside me in the motorhome but thats-- it was a daydream. I was sort of thinking I was gonna die and. I wanted to share a little dream that made me happy. And then got everything confused in my head and made it weird and I'm sorry. what I'm trying to say is I'm sorry for being weird and making things uncomfortable. I'm over you. I loved you then, and you were my first real love, and maybe if things were different I could love you like that again but. But neither of us want that or the same things out of life. And we'd crash and burn again. Plus you and Jonathan are together which is a non-starter. Cannot believe I forgot that when it was happening. Jesus. So. Yeah. Sorry for being not a great friend and hitting on you in the Upside Down." And Nancy had nodded and told him not to worry about it. He had been sort of bleeding out and planning on going back into the upside down. They could both be normal about it.

Sometimes Nancy and Robin try to have "girl time" at Nancy's suggestion because they're the only girls in the older group (sometimes. But Robin is not going to let that slip out) but it's awkward without a buffer. Robin is too nervous and rambles and Nancy is too annoyed by it. But they do get on well in group settings, and Steve and Argyle are actually the keenest to smooth over any awkwardness.

Robin laughs more with the group, and grins at Steve and smirks at Eddie and has a sharp tongue Nancy can admire. She's more comfortable with Steve around, insisting he sit beside her or on the ground in front of her so she can play with his hair. (And Nancy is shocked the first time she sees it, because Steve was notoriously protective of his "best feature", but she'd asked and he'd hummed quietly as she takes her fingers through his hair and put tiny, lopsided braids in it.) It's nice to see Robin less jumpy, and wonders what it would take to see more of the side of her Nancy only sees when Steve's around. She just wants to get closer to Robin. Wants a friend.

And somehow, beyond Nancy's notice, Steve and Robin's friend Vickie slowly joins the group. She wasn't involved at all in the spring, but has been hanging around Family Video and a movie night or two often enough that when she settles more permanently in the group it isn't a very big surprise. Eddie and Argyle welcome her in with open arms, Jonathan is only his normal amount of weary of new people, and obviously Robin and Steve are excited for their friends to be friends.

But it just doesn't sit right with Nancy. She can't pinpoint why, it just doesn't. When she sees Robin and Vickie giggling together, or having some back and forth banter that seems to feed into both of them smiling, or Steve throwing his arm over her shoulder, or Vickie leaning into Robin's space as they talk. She always sits beside Robin, Steve on the other, with Eddie beside him. It's usually a tight fit for whatever couch they're on, but the four seem happy as clams to not have any personal space. Once Argyle decided to lay across all their laps, and they just...let him. Finangled themselves so everyone was mostly comfortable.

Nancy figures she is uncomfortable with it because she hasn't ever had a close friend since Barb, and was possibly hoping she could be close to Robin along those lines. So seeing her so close with the others and mildly uncomfortable around her hurt, and seeing her and Steve incorporate someone unversed in the Upside Down into their little trauma club also hurt. Because what did Vickie have that Nancy didn't? That made Steve and Robin and now Eddie stick to her like glue? That made them want her there when she didn't know anything about what they'd been through and could probably never understand?

What made Vickie Summers so special that she's taken what should have been Nancy's place beside her friends? Because that's what really bothered her. It wasn't that Vickie didn't know, it's that Nancy felt she took her place. That Nancy wanted to be where Vickie was, and she didn't know how to ask for it. Asking, trying to talk about how Steve and Robin had bonded so well after Starcourt while she ignored them and then how they bonded with and absorbed Eddie halfway into their bizarre dynamic after vecna, would feel too much like begging or admitting that she isn't quite sure how to make friends.

Nancy is jealous. Jealous that she isn't friends like Vickie and Eddie and Steve and Robin are. That she isn't the one making Robin smile and giggle so cutely. So. She tries harder. Tries to be the friend that Robin and Eddie and even Steve deserve. She tries not to be annoyed by Robin rambling (it really isn't that bad, just. Not relevant. She likes heading Robin's voice, but thinks she could really work on having a filter.), or the way Steve always asks clarifying questions when he should really have known better, or Eddie talking half in different character voices. She thinks it's getting better, her relationship with them. But, still, Vickie is always there, glued to Robin's side almost as much as Steve is, and that always annoys Nancy. Niggles at her brain, that she doesn't deserve to be there because she didn't know what Robin had lived through and fought. Nancy did.

Eventually, Nancy figures out that she wants more from Robin. Doesn't want to be a friend she smiles at occasionally, wants to be the reason she smiles all the time. And that's terrifying. Because Nancy had never considered liking girls, never thought liking girls was a thing she could do. It was something other women did, not Nancy. She liked boys and always had, but. But maybe she always liked girls...too. maybe it wasn't something she that was one or the other. Being different in a town like Hawkins puts a target on your back, being queer in a town like Hawkins even moreso.

She's leaving Hawkins in the fall. But she thinks she wants someone to come home to. She wants Robin to come home to. Robin and Steve seem to be okay with it, from what she can glean of some veiled comments they've made that she's only caught now she's looking for them. They've made some remarks around the kids that make it seem like they'd be safe to come to, no matter what. And sometimes, some of the comments Robin makes about actresses seem a little...well. admiring.

They probably, hopefully, wouldn't hate her for this. And now Nancy and Robin have a friendship, she thinks she can. It's early July, and Nancy is going to ask Robin out.

She gets her alone, bites her lip, and asks Robin in no uncertain terms to go out on a date with her. Robin stares, mouth agape.

"oh," she says.

Nancy smiles, a little. "Yeah. So. What do you say?"

Robin blinks, and takes a shuddering breath. "Oh my god. I. Nancy I'm really flattered but I'm no-i dont- uhg. I'm dating someone." she groans, rubbing her hands over her face.

And oh. Nancy read the situation wrong "oh. Steve. It's fine! You don't like girls, thats--thats totally fine! Id just, um. That is,-"

Robin waves her hands. "No, no! I'm not dating Steve! You clocked me correctly. Definitely gay! Don't worry about that! Hah."

Something in Nancy twists. "Oh?"

"yeah. Yep. Not only am I a lesbian in a small town, I'm a lesbian in a small town that somehow also has a girlfriend." Robin says the word dreamily. Like she still can't believe it. Nancy's brain fills with static. She was too late. Too caught up with how she missed so many chances in the past, that she missed her chance now.

But Robin keeps talking. "And, like. Even if I didn't, I don't think it would have worked between us anyways. Too different, y'know?"

"what?"

Robin gestures with her hands between them. "Well, like. I like being your friend. But, I mean, I wouldn't date you?"

"why not?"

Blinking, Robin tilts her head. "Because of Steve?"

Something bubbles hot in Nancy. "What the fuck does Steve have to do with wether or not we would date?"

"Nancy. Steve's my best friend." As though that explains anything.

"yes? And?"

Robin looks uncomfortable, shifting sideways. "listen, Nancy. You're a good friend. And I've just rejected you. Maybe we should just. Ah. Leave this? I'm really sorry. I'll give you some space, just find me when you're ready?"

"no. What do you mean that we couldn't date because Steve is your best friend? Why would that have any effect on how you date?"

"it doesn't! Not really! Just. Nancy, you broke his heart. His soft, squishy heart! You kinda sorta cheated on him-details very unclear-and then just. Moved on. Pretended like nothing happened. I couldn't do that to Steve. Dating a friend's ex is a bad move. Dating an ex that broke a friend's heart is just cruel." She sighs. Looks sad. As though she isn't the one rejecting Nancy and tearing her apart for how a relationship ended almost two years ago. What did that matter, now? "You're my friend, Nancy. I like you! But even if Steve has moved on, forgiven and forgotten, and if things were a bit different given his full support for us dating if that's what I wanted, I think I'll always remember how he-- how much it hurt him."

"oh"

"I'm. Nancy I'm really sorry. I know how scary it is to put yourself out there, especially like this. It's not fair. I'm just sorry. But. It was true. Steve's the most important person to me. I couldn't ever hurt him. Not like that. Not even if he said he was fine with it."

Nancy stands and walks away. She doesn't cry until she locks her bedroom door.

[nakianshuri]

I keep seeing well-meaning posts about wanting Steve and Jonathan to be friends, and I might have felt that way at the end of season 1. But since then it’s been a no for me.

I think Argyle is a great friend for Jonathan to have. However, Jonathan has only ever been interesting to me in his family relationships, which the show has neglected since that first season. Would have been interested to see his reaction to Bob’s death and confront his biases about people since he seemed to have dismissed Bob as being too normal or whatever in S2. He probably also resented him for dating Joyce and perhaps inserting himself in their family dynamics.

Would in theory be interesting to see his reaction to Jopper, which I assume would also be met with hostility for similar reasons, or how he interacted with El being around.

So there are interactions that I think could be enlightening to see that center Jonathan.

Jonathan and Steve, however, feels like it could be repetitive? Every season, Steve has to redeem himself to someone or show that he’s not at heart an asshole. It would have been great if in a very different season 2, Steve’s redemption arc started with Jonathan and if the show established some kind of basis for mutual respect and perhaps friendship between them that would have been an nice wrinkle to the love triangle at that point.

That’s not what happened, and instead we see Steve grow through Dustin and being the “babysitter,” and with Robin and learning to deal with rejection while becoming a good friend to her. We even seen this a little with Eddie, who explicitly says Steve’s a better guy than he thought, and with Steve learning to get along with Eddie after thinking he’s a freak. We’ve seen this arc 3 times in really compelling ways imo.

Some people say Stancy is character regression, which I disagree with because both characters were in a way reintroduced to each other after being apart and changing.

However exploring Steve and Jonathan after 4 seasons of no interaction feels like regression to me bc I don’t think Jonathan has changed, nor has his point of view of the world. It potentially leaves Steve in an atoning position we’ve already seen him in, and although he loves Nancy, he hasn’t exhibited any hostility toward Jonathan for season 2. So potentially any animosity that arises might be from Jonathan’s side, and I’m just not interested in that at this point. I’m not interested in him realizing Steve’s changed either because we’ve done that already three times already with other characters, too. So it’s St*nathan not Stancy to me that feels regressive.

I hope I’m wrong and there’ll actually be some great interactions between the two (bc the actors might have some great on screen chemistry) or that they mostly stay in their corners as usual and engage with other storylines.

[adolin-is-best-boy]

ranking four queer stranger things ships on how likely i think they are to become cannon!

Ships in question: ronance, byler, jargyle, steddie

from least likely to most likely

note: i’m more focusing on the thematic and meta stuff to determine whether it gonna happen or not

4. Jargyle

i mean, it’s cute, but there is very little evidence for this happening. the only reason i could see the writers doing it would be to give jonathan another love interest after a likely jancy breakup. I mean, neither of them seem the most straight to me, but not in a way that makes it seem that their relationship could be anything more than platonic. besides, if half of the ships on this list end up being canon, when you add it to the other canon ships, then adding jargyle would really make it a bit cramped in the romance department

3. Ronance

the chemistry is there! nancy and robin are looking at eachother in those posters, the same way all the other (basically) canon ships are. it might be a thing relating to getting the other person unvecna’d, but then it’s kinda weird that jopper is doing it. also, i feel like nancy being queer could also lead to some actual sibling bonding with you-know-who. good vibes here all around, plus it’s one of my favorite w/w ships ever!

however, there are some things that make me less sure it’ll happen. first of all, vickie. the only reasons i see robin and vickie not happening is A. vickie dies (lame), or B. vickie doesn’t like girls (unlikely). from the way it’s been building up it’s nigh impossible some sort of romantic confrontation (or something like that) between them won’t happen, and it would be kinda weird if it was built of that robin liked vickie only for her to end up with nancy, unless vickie dies, which would be not very cool (but i could see happening in vol 2).

second of all, i have a feeling nancy is gonna die, if not in vol2 then in season 5. but that’s an entire other post, so i won’t say much else. i’d really like this ship to happen, but i won’t be surprised if it doesn’t.

2. Steddie (bisexual steve)

steddie just makes sense for a lot of reasons! steve having an arc where he realizes he’s bisexual has been set up SO well, it works perfectly with his character, it would be a shame if it were wasted. eddie is heavily gay/queer coded, making it perfect for steve to realize things about himself. plus, it would be perfect for the kids to have someone they already look up to be queer, and make them more comfortable with themselves. im about 75% sure that steve is bisexual.

the only problem here is that eddie has some massive death flags in vol2. i really don’t want this to happen, but i can’t ignore the signs. but if he DOES survive vol2, then i believe it’s extremely likely we’ll get steddie in s5. if he doesn’t live, then it’s possible that steve could end up with jonathan, bc of the likely jancy breakup and the fact that it would be poor writing if stancy got back together. i think we’ll for sure see some queer steve stuff in s5.

1. Byler

it’s happening 100%. i have never been this confident in a queer ship (or any ship for that matter) before. i am so confident in byler happening that i am going to schedule a post on july 1st celebrating it. there is no doubt in my mind. too me it’s so obvious it’s happening that i feel like it’s redundant to explain to anybody who’s seen the show why. there are so many reasons (both external and internal) why byler is going to happen that im not even going to list them, just watch the show.

the question is not IF byler is happening, but WHEN byler is happening. In my opinion it would be better if they are established by the end of vol2, not only to haze out the homophobes early, but to give the relationship time to grow so we can see them as a fully fledged couple in s5 before it ends. there are other reasons, but those are the main ones. however i could also see the writers not having them get together yet, and only confirm that they both have feelings for eachother so they can get together early/mid s5 and we can watch them navigate a new relationship and what it means.

———

okay im done, let me know what y’all think

Edit: I fucking hate it here

Edit 2: never mind im gaining hope again

[abstractnaturaldisaster]

Turn the Record on and Wonder What Went Wrong (Preview)

Steve and Eddie circled each other after the final battle with Vecna. Steve was confronting a part of himself he had packed away so far in the back of his mind he’d never intended to revisit. Eddie was grappling with the fact that Steve had at best ignored him and his friends in high school and at worst cheered as the other jocks played hunt the freak with Eddie and his Hellfire cohort. Nancy breaking up with Jonathon didn’t help Eddie’s confidence in his new friendship with Steve either. Everything felt so fragile. Every touch felt like it was a statement of intent and neither Steve nor Eddie were quite ready to figure out what that meant. Eddie put his pent up energy into his music, churning out new songs for Corroded Coffin to try out during their upgraded Friday night gig at the Hideout. Turned out that being wanted for murder really upped your metal street cred.

Steve still worked at Family Video with Robin while they were both figuring out what their futures would look like. Nancy had surprisingly stayed in Hawkins after the final battle because she was able to get a differed start date from Emerson. The “earthquake” in Hawkins had made national news and Emerson seemed particularly understanding of Nancy’s request. Steve wondered if Dr. Owens and the feds had something to do with it. Nancy fit into Steve and Robin’s friendship with unexpected ease and the three of them often passed the long summer days at Steve’s house enjoying the AC Steve’s parents still paid for out of guilt they had left their only son to deal with the fall out of the Hawkins disaster alone. They would listen to old records Steve’s parents had left at the suburban mansion and put on aggressive false mid-atlantic accents while pretending to host fancy shindigs for important clients. Eddie and the rest of the party would join them often but no one else had slotted into Steve and Robin’s codependency as easily as Nancy. 

It wasn’t that Eddie didn’t like hanging out with Steve and Robin and Nancy, it was that the Steve and Nancy of it all made Eddie’s skin itch. He didn’t know how to explain it without breaking the delicate tension between him and Steve. Eddie wrote about it instead. He wrote songs about boys with brown eyes and NPCs that were always just a little aloof and above whatever adventure the party was on. Thankfully the Corroded Coffin boys didn’t call him on any of it and let him work through the Steve Harrington problem via power chords and ballads. At some point, Eddie had written enough songs that the band was ready to send out a demo to labels to see if they caught any interest. On a whim, Eddie threw one of his ballads onto the end of the album. A song about a boy who was just out of reach.

Everything was everything But baby it's the last show Everything could be everything But it's time to say goodbye so Get your last fix, and your last hit Grab your old girl with her new tricks Honey, yeah, it's no surprise That I got lost in your brown eyes

***

Spoilers for the fic ahead!!

***

So I should absolutely be working on my big bang story but this idea came to me and I had to start it. I was listening to You and I by Lady Gaga and I had this sudden vision of Steve buying the Hideout. I also thought about Eddie making it big and coming back to Hawkins for Wayne’s wedding to Claudia (I low key ship this so hard). Of course Steve would be hosting the wedding at the Hideout. So then I was thinking about other Lady Gaga songs that were Steddie-coded and Brown Eyes seemed like such an obvious one. I also might use this story to write some background Will / Gareth because I am becoming invested in that pairing, lol. Please sound off in the comments about what you’d like to see in this universe!

[dinitride-art]

Five Act Structure: Seasons vs. Acts

Reworking some thoughts and ideas here. If Stranger Things is set up in five act structure (which is so cool and I never want to stop talking about it also here’s this post where I explain what I’m talking about) then the parallels between season two and season four change a bit- but also viewing the story as a whole might change too (when looking at it in five acts).

Season one had a pretty cut and dry story: Will went missing, supernatural elements introduced, character introductions, banishing supernatural elements, Will comes back. If they didn’t get a second season the story would still hold up. This is also a really good set up for the rest of the story, it’s the ~prologue~. Also it’s ACT I. But just talking about the story within the season- it’s solid stuff. There’s stuff that’s unresolved yeah, but not to the point where you’d watch it and think, what’s next. We’re not done here- hey! Get back here- like you would think at the end of let’s say, season four. (Also season one has the first major death that effects the narrative later- barb)

Season two is more complicated than season one. We’re well aware by the end of it that this story is not done- the Mind Flayer is still a problem. The last scene where we flip over into the Upside Down tells us that this part of the story isn’t finished. Season two also starts developing Lucas and Max, and Mike and El’s (although really different from Lucas and Max) relationships. It also explores Mike and Will’s relationship.

The Snowball is a really interesting point in the season because it’s the last episode and the last scene. It’s also a weird sort of misdirection that’s telling us everything worked out okay. But it’s not okay. Bob is dead, El literally just ran away and was being confronted with her past, Will was just possessed, Barb is still dead, the Mind Flayers still alive- the Snowball is like a bandaid on you’re feelings for your best friend. Unhelpful and clearly hiding something. Season two is a good portion of ACT II, and it makes sense for things to be unresolved at the end of season two- because ACT II hasn’t run it’s course yet.

All characters usually are introduced by the end of ACT II, so Robin being introduced in season three would make sense if we’re actually still in ACT II at the start of season three. Season three also continues to follow the Mind Flayer. We’re still dealing with the same problem as season two. Character wise, we’re exploring Lucas and Max’s romantic relationships, El and Max’s relationship (continuing from Max’s interests in El in season two), Mike and El’s relationship, and Mike and Will. We’ve also continued on with Dustin’s focus on girls, and his friendship with Steve. We’re dealing with almost all the same problems for everyone, just continuing in a different season. Our main problem is the Mind Flayer, and that leads us straight to the climax- the Mind Flayer at Star-court and Hopper’s “death”.

Right before the battle at star court is where ACT II ends. Then we get to ACT III, the climax, where everything big happens all at once. Usually the climax is one scene so that’s why I’m saying it’s when they defeat the Mind Flayer, Billy dies, Hopper “dies”, and there are literal fire works going off making everything that much more intense. After the climax, the Byers move away, Mike and El (get back together?) have a relationship development and Mike seems all out of sorts about it, and everything starts going in a downwards spiral.

However, going back to ACT II for a second here, looking at where we are by the time of the climax (and during) everything has pretty much been resolved- Suzie’s revealed as a real person/Dustin’s girl problems stop, all party relationships are pretty okay again. Max and El are friends, Nancy and Jonathan are cool again, Hopper and Joyce were going to go on a date, Mike and El are cool again, pretty much every problem that’s had a clear cut story line from season two finds an end in season three. Of course there’s still things that aren’t resolved, but for the most part, when the season ends it’s okay. The cliff hanger comes separately from the end of the season (like Will in season one).

Season four is a lot like season two; it’s the start of and act but it also stops in the middle of that act. A new problem is introduced in season four: Vecna/Henry Creel/One. This is not the same guy as the Mind Flayer at all. Everything also starts going terribly in season four because now we’re in ACT IV- the bad one. After the climax everything falls to pieces- and where we’re sitting right now, in the middle of ACT IV, it’s still falling apart. Season four problems are going to carry over into season five, much like the Mind Flayer into season three, because it’s the same act.

So this all got me thinking about the act structure in relation to the story, and what if ACT II and ACT IV are paralleling each other, and not just season two and season four? That would mean that all of season two and most of season three could be seen as paralleling season four (and most of season 5). That really changes things for me because that expands the possibility of what’s actually happening quite a bit. It also messes with the idea that season two and season four could be related to each other in specific ways(like being inverted), because ACT II and ACT IV cover different things. However, it would make more sense for ACT II and ACT IV to be paralleled because of the Snow Ball scene in the middle of both of them.

Mike also makes a lot more sense as a narrator when looking at Stranger Things in acts. Season one was a single act, so we saw a lot of Mike. We focused in on him and Joyce because they’re guiding us in season one. In season two, there’s less of Joyce and more of Mike and other characters stories- but Joyce makes a return in season three where Mike falls a bit more off to the side. But looking at season two and three as a whole, it’s pretty well divided between all the characters in respect to their placement and roles within the story. In season four we got a lot more Joyce and a lot more of the other characters development. Mike fell a bit to the side again, but it makes sense for that to happen if ACT IV isn’t completed. We haven’t really gotten to Mike in ACT IV yet. Similar idea with how Will goes from being the focus of season two, to being sidelined in season three. They’re still there and present in the narrative but they’ve done their part of the act- and now are helping the others do theirs.

Season five looks like it’s going to finish the rest of ACT IV (the downwards spiral) and pick up the storylines that haven’t been covered in the act yet. Mike and Will, Jonathan and Nancy, Max and El, Vecna and the Upside Down, the consequences of Eddie’s death, what happened to Owens, mystery around the Upside Down- and everything else that season four started to get into but didn’t actually conclude.

[willel]

I hope they explore more will dynamics in s5 since in seasons 2-4 we mostly see him interacting with the same people (exluding s1 since he was stuck in the upside-down for most of it). It makes sense for his character since compared to the rest of the party he's quieter and more introverted but still. In s2 he's mostly seen interacting with joyce, Jonathan, Mike, Dustin and Lucas with a few others but mainly these 5 and maybe hopper and even though max was introduced this season we don't get to see that much with them. In s3 will mostly interacts with the same people and compared to the rest of the party he doesn't really interact with characters like Steve, Nancy, Robin or El and he interacts with max a bit more but still not that much. In s4 the byers moved to California and we get to see him interact with el but other then her and I guess argyle (Suzie and Murray too but those are very breif) he mostly sticks to the same people again. He was also the only og party member to not really bring anyone in since Dustin, Lucas and Mike (but mostly mike) brought el into the party in s1 while it was mostly Dustin and Lucas bringing max into the party in s2. Sorry if I ranted in your inbox but this just popped into my head

I think the main problem is that he's quiet and introverted. He's not just gonna immediately start vibing with people like Steve or Robin for example, he'll need some time. I can see him getting along fine with Nancy though, he's known her for many years so he wouldn't feel that awkward about it. Plus she's dating his brother.

If the whole team is going to be less segmented this year, maybe Will will be getting a lot of time with his siblings (Jonathan and El) and in doing so, he'll get to spend a lot of time with Nancy?

Nancy is the only one on that hill that can tell all of them exactly what happened while they were all away. Nancy, being the smart lady she is, can also probably put the pieces together and realize Will is in danger just like Max was.

We only got a little bit of Nancy and Max content, but I really love that exchange they sorta had.

Max: Try not to miss. Nancy, later: I won't miss.

She's even directly confronted Vecna multiple times now. Would be cool if she took an older sister stance like "Nah. I'm joining the Will Byers protection squad and I won't let Vecna touch him. -loads gun-"

That would also be a shame though cause we'd end up with Nancy acting like more of an older sister towards Will than her own little brother so I dunno about that 😂

If my theory about Will being able to go into Vecna's mind and interacting with the souls trapped there is true, I think that could introduce a lot of opportunities for Will and Max scenes. At least a couple of them, if he's able to act as the liaison between her and the real world. They made a point to show that El couldn't find her, but maybe Will can? Max and Will have a lot of the same grief regarding their family life (though luckily Will's big bro isn't an asshole towards him), would be nice if that gets acknowledged.

If Will and Robin gets some scenes together, firstly, I hope it doesn't overpower and scenes with Jonathan. Like, I want Will to come out to Jonathan or Joyce first period end of story. But it would be interesting if we got indications that Robin is picking up on signals Will isn't even aware he's putting out and goes out of her way to try to be friendly with him? Like the extroverted kid adopting the shy kid dynamic. But Robin herself is in the closet and is terrified of being exposed so I don't think she'd go out of her way to be super obvious that she knows or cause him more anxiety than he already has.

LUCAS. I DEMAND LUCAS AND WILL SCENES END OF STORY. LUCAS, EL, AND WILL ALL TRYING TO SAVE MAX FROM VECNA. I NEED IT NOW. LUCAS AND WILL HUG NOW

It would also be really cool if Dustin and Will were the dnd consultants and had discussions on theories with each other. Other than Dustin, Will is the most invested in dnd. Like I know he gave away his manuals and whatnot, but he obviously still loves it dearly. I would like to see Dustin turning to Will for his opinion to see if Will's knowledge on Vecna lines up with some kind of dnd lore or rules. Or Will suggesting something and Dustin backing him up. Stuff like that.

There are many opportunities to be had here, but who knows if they'll actually follow through.

[skrittle-mix]

will kinda already came out to jonathan

besdies jonathan who do you think he will come out to first?

and what about mike?

besides Jonathan, I definitely see some sort of conversation between him and el happening. I imagine a confrontation, for lack of a better word, would happen about the painting, or even what will said about el, and I think there will be some words about not fitting in/being normal and not belonging. I think if mike tells her what will told him, she'd wonder what he meant and they would be able to connect and will would feel comfortable to share. or Joyce, but I see that going the way the coming out went with Jonathan, where they let him know he's accepted no matter what and not force him to say it. outside of his family, I could see will getting closer to robin, after seeing her with vickie, and then one day he has to courage to tell her because he knows theres no way she'd react badly to it.

as for mike, I really only see him and nancy having a heart to heart about it. maybe Karen but again, it would be the same as Joyce with the acceptance stuff. I'd love for him to have some sort of coded conversation with Jonathan though, one where it seems like he's talking about el, because with the amount of hiding his feelings with her name I need someone to show mike how obvious he's being and tell him to stop lol, and help the GA make the connection. I really want to see more of the mike/jonathan dynamic because I can totally see them being sort of friends when they were younger and especially if jonathan came over every time will was at the wheelers between season one and two seeing as he drove will home instead of letting him bike. mike thinks he's doing okay with hiding everything, but because Jonathan was present both times he said I love you, and in the shed, and the way mike reacted season one and two, Jonathan knows who mike was really talking about and drops something like "you need to talk to him, mike" then just walks away and leaves mike to figure it out/ go and talk to will. I think I just want to see Jonathan become Murray for byler lol. it would be interesting to see that play out imo when you bring in the fact that everything Murray told Jonathan and nancy applies to byler.

[thestobingirlie]

Oh my god I saw about that hate anon and that was a wild read ngl. Also I saw the other stuff and it’s wild how many people create an idea of what Steve fans are like and then press that on Steve fans who have never said what they’re complaining about.

Yep yep yep! About people forgetting that they’re writing human beings like the characters themselves aren’t him an beings but they should resemble human beings ya know? Yes like all the teens have major complexity and I always hate whenever people just dumb it down on the complexity because that’s what makes it hella interesting. And also thanks for the fic I’ll def read it!

Yes exactly what you said about Nancy! Like it isn’t a great track record that and yeah it is def a trauma thing! But also like you said she could grow out of it but also I don’t want Robin in that mess! Especially since I did bring up she’s a lesbian in the 80s like she genuinely needs someone who is as serious as her in a relationship

Yes about the similarity because like idk how people saw being similar as being an indicator that you’re too much like the other person to work things out! Like we only see a few traits in Robin that are reflected in vickie but just because it’s reflected doesn’t mean that they’re the exact same! Yep people are seriously so nit picky about their relationship for more reason at all! Oh my god especially about that part about how they act like these characters are in their 20s and that’s the only relationship they will have. Like these characters are in their teenager years and idk why it’s so wild that people can’t comprehend the fact that they’re just teenagers and are most likely not in it for the really long haul. It’s amazing when relationships last that long however the way people in this fandom act like just because teenagers are in romantic pairings that means it’s the end all be all

Also you’re so correct about the Nancy thing and her probably doing that! Cuz I could so see it.

i know, it was so weird lmao. and yeah, people make up this idea of what steve stans are like, and then get annoyed at me for it! like, what’d i do?

yeah, like, obviously they’re just characters written to fit a narrative, but if you’re trying to write a fanfic, you have to at least try and make them seem like people. otherwise it’s just boring. and complexity is so fun! like i love a little toxicity between characters, so i just find it so weird to engage in a ship/relationship that would have a lot of tension and then get annoyed that it isn’t running smoothly.

yeah, i don’t think nancy will always have issues with her relationships, but i also don’t think they’re getting solved anytime soon, and that’s why nancy just needs to be single. like, everyone in her relationships is getting hurt in some way (including her), and until she confronts her trauma that will keep happening. and yeah, robin’s got enough going on, let her have a sweet little relationship.

a lot of people in the fandom contradict themselves constantly to try and prove that only their opinions are correct about the relationships. and that’s human nature! you know, i don’t hate them for it. it’s just fucking annoying lol. and i hate any fandom where the kids are teenagers and everyone acts like who’s endgame actually matters. like, they’re teenagers. they’ll probably break up in a week! they still have years of growing left to do! that’s why i like when some ships are left ambiguous. like, i’d love if nancy ended the show single, and if the audience wants to, they can decide if she ended up back with jonathan or steve, or ended up with some random, you know?

it’s tough being so correct about nancy when most of the fandom disagrees with me lmao

[beepboop358]

My Byler theories/predictions for S4

Since s4 is already confirmed to not be the last season, I don’t think Byler will officially get together in s4. I do think that we are definitely going to get a large amount of Byler’s development in s4 though, we just aren’t at the finish line yet. Since Byler has been being developed all through each of the seasons, I think the writers are playing the long game with Mike and Will. I really appreciate a queer romance that is so well developped, especially in something so popular! I think the season will end on a note where it’s understood what Mike has been struggling with, It’s made known that Will is gay, and that Mike has feelings for Will, and Will has feelings for Mike.

My predictions/theories for Byler in s4:

Mike might be acting a little off at school and Dustin is going to notice his odd behavior and ask what’s up

I think Mike will be getting in trouble at school and at home (based on whenever he doesn’t have Will/El around he does stupid things - like graffitti the bathroom wall, plagiarize essays, curse at adults, etc.) I don’t know if Mike knows about Eddie dealing drugs, but he might and he might get drugs from Eddie and do them to cope with everything he is struggling with. His parents might ground him for doing drugs, and forbid him from going to visit the Byers, and then we could get our runaway smalltown boy montage! LOL

Lonnie might come to visit the Byers in California for Will’s birthday. He will probably show up because he thinks they have money now, or he wants to sue Starcourt like he wanted to sue the quarry in s1. Mike will also be there visiting for Will’s birthday. Lonnie will mock Will and make fun of him like he always did, but he will also hate Mike. Lonnie will definitely notice Will and Mike’s dynamics and he will definitely comment about it. He might even call them homophobic slurs like we know he used to do with Will when he was younger. Lonnie will probably make Will cry and Mike upset. Lonnie might possibly “out” him and Mike before they are out and confirm it themselves. Some of the movies on the stranger writers twitter for s4 also hint at this, as well as having the baseball references. There are also hints to Will’s birthday throughout the show: The rainbow happy birthday mug seen in the crazy together scene, the “sorry i forgot your birthday card” in Will’s room from Lonnie, and Joyce’s speech in the shed discussing Will’s 8th birthday and his “rainbow ship”. Jonathan also mentions how Lonnie made him kill a rabbit on his 10th birthday and he cried for a week after, just more hints that if Lonnie shows up for Will’s bday, it’s gonna be bad.

Mike might get Will a watch for his birthday. This would reference the clocks being central to the s4 plot, and “not wanting things to change/turning back the clock” in Hopper’s letter

Will is being homophobically bullied at his new school again, possibly references to Will having HIV/AIDS because the height of the epidemic was in the 80’s and it was very stigmatized

Mike will call Will more than he will call El. Will might be slightly surprised by this, El’s frequent calling will annoy Mike and he might turn off his walkie talkie. (basically the reverse of what Mike said would happen in the s3 ending mileven scene)

Mike and Will will be in the same location for most of the season, like s2. They will not leave each other’s sides for the majority of the time they are together.

S4 Group Predictions:

- El, Will, Mike trio together with Jonathan and Argyle. (we will get some obvious tension between El, Will, and Mike, and Mike will hate Argyle at first)

- Robin, Steve, Erica, Max, Dustin, Lucas, Vickie, Eddie, Nancy

- Joyce, Murray, etc?

- Hopper and the other Russians (Dimitri, etc)

The rift between Mike and El will continue to grow.

When Mike comes to visit, she will notice he seems much more interested in Will.

El will ask why the bullies call Will those things (queer/fairy/gay/homo, probably f slurs too), what it means and if he really is “a queer”.

I don’t know if Will is going to come out to El. They have never interacted before, and I doubt Will trusts her or really likes her much mainly, because of Mike. Unless they get super close during the time not portrayed on screen between s3 and s4, or by being all each other has in California, I don’t know if  he will come out to El. I could see this going either way depending on how their friendship develops. I definitely do not think Will is going to tell El he likes Mike, even if he does confide in her he is gay. I think she will find out eventually but in some other way, probably just from Mike’s behavior towards Will.

El will eventually realize she doesn’t actually love Mike and let go of the ‘romance’ aspect of their bond, but still highly value him as a friend.

Mike might be called homophobic slurs at school as well. Mike will definitely be teased (regardless of his sexuality) because he is in the hellfire club and since satanic panic is sweeping the town, people look at D&D as if it is a satanic game, and he will be teased because of that.

Based on the leaked bts pics, I have a theory a cheerleader, or someone else, might show interest in Mike.  Mike will not reciprocate and she will call him out for it asking why he doesn't like her because “any other guy at this school would” or something like that, maybe even ask “what are you gay or something”. It would certainly be good for Mike’s narrative but idk if it will happen.

Will may confide in Jonathan about his feelings for Mike and the things the bullies say to him at school. Jonathan will be supportive of Will, as will Joyce. I think he will also try to protect Will from Lonnie and they will both defend Will to Lonnie.

I think we need a scene of Mike with his Mom telling him to follow his heart, like who you like, etc. because life is too short to waste it being miserable or something like that. This could be inspired by Mike’s parents seperating, but idk. This could also encourage Mike to initiate more romantic things with Will.

I would love to get a scene of Will confronting Mike for “Joining another party”, after Will said he wouldn’t.

Will and Mike need to discuss what was said in their fight.

I think since Mike's been holding in a lot of turmoil and struggling with his sexuality for so long we might get a small breakdown scene from him, of him telling Will he’s really sorry for how he treated him last summer, and for all the things he said to Will. Mike will profusely apologize and also hint at how he’s confused and been dealing with a lot.

I think Mike will be the first one to break down and confess he has feelings for Will and has been struggling with coming to terms with his sexuality.

Once Will has confirmation Mike is also struggling with his sexuality, Will might come out to him. I would love for him to reference the fight being like “You were right. I don’t like girls.” (from @itsonlystrange ‘s 4x07 byler script it’s so good!) I don't know if Will will confess he likes Mike to his face or not. I don't think it's likely given how shy Will is and how afraid he is of Mike not reciprocating, but who knows.

Mike may initiate a kiss between him and Will - towards the end of the season probably (eyewitness parallel - explained in my byler proof google slides)

I think Mike and Will might write letters to each other, with some love-y connotations. There is a lot of evidence for this in the canon comics of them writing notes to each other, and that cryptic tweet from stranger writers twitter with a blocked out message and the date Will went missing saying it wasn’t about a couple or hopper. Maybe byler related? This tweet may not be a letter but it might be. The most popular theories are that the message is to Will, “love mike”, which I love. https://twitter.com/strangerwriters/status/1184945905973153792?lang=en

Will has a new haircut (bts pics) and Mike will gush over it. Maybe some gay-panicking too hopefully

I think El will be either physically or at least emotionally distant the entire season from the other kids (again following the pattern of even and odd seasons) El needs some personal development this season, since she didn’t get any in s3.

El might confront Mike and ask if he is gay and if he likes Will, which could be El’s motivation to go off on a journey of her own to learn more about her own life. I don’t think it will be a huge fight, but El might make some references to him always lying to her. I think Mike might just kind of try to talk his way out of it at first, but he will eventually break. This might be a two part discussion and Mike doesn’t admit she is right until later. I don’t think it makes sense for El to be heartbroken (explained in my byler proof slides), just slightly annoyed. This is based off of the movie Tootsie which they borrowed the “gift” idea from in s3 already. In the movie, the girlfriend then after receiving the gift asks “Michael” if he is gay.

I really think eventually El will realize it’s okay because she doesn’t love him romantically either, and once she realizes that her own personal development can really begin.

I think we will see a noticeable change in Mike’s demeanor. I think Mike will mainly just be trying to hide that he is gay now. He joined the hellfire club so we know he’s playing d&d again meaning he is reverting back to his true self, not the weird act he put on in s3 trying to be straight and change himself. He is still struggling, but he knows he likes Will. Regardless that doesn’t mean he is going to be super clear about how he feels. He is going to be extremely afraid of opening up and then getting hurt by Will. He will probably do some of his usual ‘lead Will on and then shut it down’ thing. And I really want Will to call him out on this. This could also lead to Mike breaking down in front of Will and confessing. I think we are going to get a lot of 'Mike gay panicking' moments, he's going to be extremely afraid of being found out/suspected.

Byler things I really want to happen that we may get because they would have narrative significance:

I really want flashbacks to those 3 months of summer between the starcourt explosion and the Byers moving, of moments between Mike and Will when they hang out alone together, with some obvious romantic tension. Like where they are super playful and almost kiss, or they are kind of touchy, or something in the realm of that. I think we need a flashback of something that explains Will’s flirty nature at the very end of s3 with Mike, because he doesn't normally act like that. I want noticeable “is something going on with them?” vibes. This could also happen during the thanksgiving/christmas flashbacks.

I hope we get flashbacks of Mike going to the Byers for Thanksgiving, and the Byers coming back to Hawkins for Christmas. Preferably of some Mike and Will moments that hint at Mike’s confusion or how he feels “so alone” without Will, maybe with some “crazy together” references too! I’d also love some tension between the 3 of them, maybe this is when El starts to get suspicious of Mike liking Will.

Hopefully we get some shots of Mike biking past the byers old house and going to look at castle byers and reminiscing.

I’d love to get a flashback of Mike the day the Byers moved away, of him crying or being upset, alone in his room/basement while looking at Will’s drawings or pictures of Will and him together. Mainly to confirm for people that Mike was upset about Will moving, not as much El.

This one does not seem super probable, but it is a very popular theory. Idk if it’s possible because of location logistics, but if they spend enough time together, I’d love for Mike to get to know Robin better, and Will too. Maybe once everyone comes together at the end of the season, she will notice their dynamics and could help guide and inspire them to be themselves. Hey maybe thats for s5 :) But I do think it’s a possibility that Mike may work at the video store with Steve and Robin, and she will pick up on Mike’s behavior and understand, whether she communicates that to him or not.

[dweetwise]

How do the other survivors react to cheryl? uwu

we love cheryl <3

Cheryl & other survivors headcanons

Dwight is used to getting so many incredulous comments along the lines of “You’re the leader?”, so when Cheryl just shrugs when Ace introduces him as such, he instantly decides to try to befriend her. The two bond a lot over having been outcasts and without many friends during their time before the fog.

Meg and Cheryl get off on the wrong foot. Meg reminds Cheryl of the popular girls who used to give her the cold shoulder in school, and she brings out the snark, to which Meg’s hot temper is quick to respond to. They eventually bond after Cheryl opens up to the camp about the murder of her father.

Claudette is a little bit intimidated by Cheryl. She’s impulsive and not afraid to speak her mind and Claudette is a lot more reserved. However, Cheryl starts seeking her out, making an effort to get to know her. “I’m sorry if I seem rude, I just never really knew how to make friends,” Cheryl awkwardly explains. Claudette almost wants to cry, relating wholeheartedly and the two become good friends despite their contrasting personalities.

Jake is pretty rude to new survivors in general. He likes listening in on Cheryl talk to the others about her past, and ends up respecting her a lot despite never having talked to her. Once, he saves her during endgame. “I thought you hated me,” a surprised Cheryl says. “I don’t hate you, I just can’t stand people,” he explains. Instead of calling him out on his rudeness, Cheryl just says “Mood” and they bond over being edgy little shits.

Nea vibes with Cheryl’s chaotic, rebellious energy. She brings out a playful side of the normally serious girl and eggs her on to to dumb shit in trials, to the annoyance of the other survivors.

Laurie has sen that same look in her own eyes and knows Cheryl has been through some shit. They share a quiet solidarity, more often than not sensing each other’s auras in trials. Sometimes they wordlessly exchange shivs by the campfire and put the others on edge.

Ace finds Cheryl to have a dry and dark sense of humor that he loves. Cheryl is quick to adopt father figures in her life and kind of latches on to Ace at the start, since his lighthearted banter and shitty jokes make her feel welcomed to the group.

Bill’s initial reaction is pretty much “Just another kid to protect”. He ends up eating his words when Cheryl shows just how capable she is despite her young age. He even gives her honest to God compliments for teaching him how to tank a hit after recovering off the ground.

Feng is thinking strategically right off the bat, skipping any greetings and demanding “So, what can you do?” and trying to figure out how the other’s skills will benefit her the team. Feng takes a shine to Cheryl because she’s kind of a tryhard in trials and they almost always end up escaping if they’re together. And there’s nothing Feng likes more than winning.

David is irritated at the injustice of another survivor, and a kid at that, getting trapped in the realm. He ends up taking it out on Cheryl, blunt and rude in their interactions, until a pissed off Cheryl confronts him with a “Dude, what the hell is your problem!?” and David realizes he could stand to be a little more friendly.

Quentin and Cheryl? Near-instant besties. They’re the same age, have a similar vibe and share similar hellish nightmare trauma. Even though the others have also sen Some Shit ™, Quentin feels like Cheryl is the only one who understands having a fucked up childhood and constant nightmares. They have a whole bunch of inside jokes and most are extremely morbid.

Tapp reminds Cheryl of Douglas and she tells him as much. When Tapp is, unsurprisingly, concerned about the whole cult thing she lets slip, she ends up opening up to him more than any of the others about the events of Silent Hill. Tapp never speaks a word of it to anyone and makes it his mission to get between Cheryl and Pyramid Head every opportunity he can, as Cheryl says the killer reminds her of the monsters she faced.

Kate immediately jumps into a big sister role and Cheryl is a little taken aback by the sudden, hearty affection. Kate doesn’t let up and Cheryl begrudgingly accepts the hugs and Kate becomes the nice, if a little overbearing, aunt figure.

Adam, at first glance, resigns himself to the fact that he has nothing in common with the rebellious teen. Cheryl surprises him by being hungry for knowledge, listening intently to whatever tidbit Adam shares. He actually blushes when Cheryl says he’s a great teacher and if the ones in her schools had been like him she probably never would have flunked.

Jeff swoops in to save Cheryl every time the others are being a little too insistent asking about her past or requesting to be taught her perks. Jeff distracts her from life in the fog, asking about what kind of music and movies she’s into and what she used to do in the real world.

Jane can tell Cheryl is troubled by her past and tries to get her to talk about the events of Silent Hill, but Cheryl pulls away and only wants to share with someone she’s comfortable with. Jane pushes a little too hard and Cheryl starts avoiding her, having some unresolved issues involving female authority figures that she needs to work through.

Ash makes bad dad jokes and is secretly pleased when Cheryl shows an interest in the mechanics of his prosthetic. There’s a certain kind of ego boost that only comes from a teenager genuinely saying that his arm is “cool”.

Nancy’s first impression is that Cheryl was that weird kid in school who everyone avoided for no reason. So, like with Barb and Jonathan before her, Nancy makes a conscious effort to get to know Cheryl and ends up appreciating her weird little quirks. Cheryl, in turn, often calls Nancy a nerd, but it’s affectionate and their friendship is a wholesome one.

Steve tries to befriend Cheryl a little too eagerly because something about her reminds him of Robin. They have an awkward confrontation where Cheryl says she’s not interested, and Steve is confused for a whole minute before panicking. “Shit, I wasn’t trying to hit on you! I just wanted to be friends because you seem cool af!” In the end they laugh it off and become friends after an awkward start.

Yui loves how independent and badass Cheryl is. She develops a small crush and is always uncharacteristically quiet and flustered whenever Cheryl compliments her skills in trials.

Zarina is skeptical of Cheryl because of her young age. She ends up appreciating how resourceful the girl is, but sticks to admiring from afar as she doesn’t feel like she can relate to her struggles.

[lesbianrobin]

What do you think of steve and robin and Jonathan amd nancy sharing a storyline together? I dont think its actually gonna happen, but hypothetically how do you think it would go?

God, I wish the four of them would have a storyline together! I think that it would be incredibly fun to see them investigating some sort of mystery, especially if it had something to do with the Russian plot from S3. I think that a Steve/Robin/Nancy/Jonathan team would be SO full of interesting relationship dynamics that I’ll try and explore really quick.

Robin and Nancy: Nancy’s canonically a little hostile to Robin during their brief interaction in the mall, Robin canonically thinks Nancy is a bit of a priss, and they’re both rather headstrong, so I think there’s a good chance that they’d clash pretty spectacularly if they were working together and disagreed on something. There’s also the fact that Robin is canonically rather protective of Steve, and Nancy “broke his heart.” If he’s told her about what happened in S2, then I could see her vague “hm she’s a priss” feelings about Nancy growing into genuine dislike. Then again, Robin was being pretty friendly to Nancy when they met in the mall, and she saw Nancy staying in place and firing at Billy before Steve rammed the car, so she might actually respect her! Nancy didn’t recognize Robin at the mall even though they’re in the same grade at school and likely have classes together. This might contribute to some potential issues, as Robin’s clearly a little upset about Steve overlooking her in high school and she’s insecure about being “invisible.” There are a lot of unknowns between the two of them, and I personally like to write them as being pretty passive-aggressive with each other and sharing a mutual dislike because I think it’s funny, but in canon they could go in a lot of different directions! 

Robin and Jonathan: God, I just know these two would be GOLD together. There’s honestly a good chance that they already know each other, considering that they’re the same age, go to the same school, and are both sorta social outcasts. Maybe they’ve worked on group projects together before, or sat at the same lunch table. They’re almost certainly aware of each other, which provides the potential for some interesting messing around with perceptions vs reality. Like, all Robin probably knows about Jonathan before S3 is that he’s the weird kid, he’s poor, his little brother went missing for a while and miraculously turned up alive when they thought he had died, and one time he beat Steve Harrington’s ass. She probably liked him after that lmao. After S3, she knows that Jonathan is all of the above, PLUS he “stole” Steve’s girlfriend, he’s fought monsters before, and he cut into a girl’s leg on a moment’s notice without any real hesitation. She probably thinks he’s some kind of stone-cold badass! It would be super fun to watch them get to know each other beyond those surface-level impressions, and I think they’d probably have a lot to talk about, seeing as they’re both canonically pretty into “alternative” music and obscure/cult films! I think that they’d probably end up getting into some intense debates about shit that Nancy and Steve don’t understand and it would be fun. Nancy and Steve might end up getting a little offended or jealous that their respective People are getting along so well, and that dynamic could be fun to see. I like writing Robin and Jonathan as having a pretty antagonistic friendship, where they rip on each other’s taste in music, movies, literature, etc, and toss around casual insults, but genuinely enjoy spending time together, but since they haven’t interacted really at all, canon could take them in any direction. Also, they’re both gay.

Robin and Steve: y’all know... y’all know!!! Steve and Robin would be in full best friend mode, working perfectly in tandem, and Nancy and Jonathan might even be intimidated by how “on the same page” they are. They’d also likely assume Steve and Robin were dating, which could lead to some funny interactions. Steve and Robin would provide a sturdy base of friendship and cooperation, allowing the rest of the group to have all the arguments and interpersonal drama that they want.

Steve and Nancy: GOD, I want to see how Steve and Nancy interact post-breakup! I think they’d be so awkward and funny. More than that, though, I think it would be fun to see how Robin and Jonathan factor into things. For example, Robin absolutely functions better with Steve than Nancy ever did, and it could be interesting for Nancy to watch the two of them together and see how Steve has changed since they dated. I also think that it would be interesting to see whether they fall back into familiar patterns or whether they’ve grown totally apart from each other. Do they casually touch each other and then pull back self-consciously when they remember? Do they avoid speaking to each other unless they have to, or do they play it cool? Does Steve recognize things from his own past while watching Nancy and Jonathan interact? They tend to approach things rather differently, so might they get into an argument about how to proceed with the mission? How would it escalate if they did? Would one of them bring up past transgressions? There’s SO MUCH left unsaid between the two of them, and Robin and Jonathan are the perfect people to have around to drive them to confront and discuss these things.

Steve and Jonathan: So, I ship Stonathan. Let’s just get that out of the way. I would love to see them bond and fall in love. Beyond that, though, speaking in terms of canon, I think that they would be a little awkward at first, but ultimately end up working really well together. Unlike Nancy and Robin who both tend to run headfirst into danger for fun, they both like to mind their own business until some shit comes up, and then they’ll do what they have to do to keep themselves and the people they care about safe. If they were united behind a common goal, I think they’d focus on that goal. There also isn’t really much for them to butt heads over, at this point, when you consider that their plans of action in emergency situations both tend to prioritize safety above all else and they’d probably not disagree over anything mission-related. Jonathan let out his frustrations over Steve’s S1 behavior, Steve apologized and saved Jonathan’s life, so that’s all cool between them. Steve doesn’t seem to harbor any hard feelings towards Jonathan after S2, even encouraging Nancy to go with Jonathan and support him when he and Joyce are headed to the cabin to burn the Mind Flayer out of Will, and he’s over Nancy now, so I don’t think that would really be an issue. Their interactions would be free of malice, and I think it could be fun to watch them bond and progress from awkward acquaintances to true friends!

Jonathan and Nancy: We already know that their relationship doesn’t fare too well under pressure, as evidenced by S3. Steve and Robin being in the mix would absolutely add to the pressure of whatever serious Russian/Upside-Down situation was at hand, so I think there’s a good chance they’d end up arguing again, and it would be INCREDIBLY uncomfortable for Steve and Robin! They would probably try to limit their romantic interactions in front of Steve, because that shit’s awkward, Jonathan is shy, and he and Nancy probably both still feel a little guilty about how things went down in S2. This would, of course, be weird, and Steve would be like “guys, seriously, I’m over it, you can kiss or whatever and I don’t care,” which would make things SO much more uncomfortable. It would be a mess! A fun one! 

So, TL;DR, I think there would be a lot of drama, a lot of discomfort, but also a lot of opportunity for characters who haven’t interacted yet much to bond! There would definitely be a blowout argument or two, most likely between Robin/Nancy or Nancy/Jonathan, with Steve attempting to mediate or break it up so they can focus on their mission. Robin and Jonathan would more or less get along. Steve would be extremely stressed the entire time, and it would be extremely fun (for us, not him). Overall, they would all have unique relationships with each other, and despite any drama they would certainly all risk their lives to keep the others safe, which I think would make for an incredibly dynamic and interesting group!

[hawkinslibrary]

i love hearing what you have to say about season 4!! i promise it’s not too long lol, anyway i have a question for you: what do you think the next season holds for mike & el? i’m a little worried tbh

ahhh thank you !! same rules apply: spoilers ahead, so please read no further and blacklist/filter out the ‘s4′, ‘st4′, ‘spoilers’ tags if you don’t want to see anything !! 

i’m going to talk about them both as individuals and as a pair but first, i have to say that i don’t personally feel like you have to worry about them breaking up or anything again this season. i think s4 is really going to establish romantic jopper and once that happens, i don’t see them, mileven, or jancy not being endgame unless someone actually dies. which -- i’m not going to think about the possibility of anyone dying until i’m forced to confront it, so. this is fiction and it’s already unrealistic and i’m gonna take my ‘everyone survives, happiness all around, time to relax’ endings and go. anyway, i would love to add lumax to this list but i honestly think it could go either way depending on what happens in s4. that’s a different essay, though.

i tend to think that the most important dynamic on the show is the one between the whole group and i just don’t really see them spending much more time trying to develop romantic relationships outside of the ones set up since s1/2. maybe steve, robin, and will get love interests, maybe they decide to develop dustin and suzie more, maybe suzie is never even mentioned again, idk. but these will probably all be secondary -- as in less screen time, not less important than the main romances, but probably still less developed. unless it happens to be a new person added to the main cast. which, as of now, the only new mains are brett and priah who has gone from recurring to regular. so.  

i think s3 showed how messy and complicated romantic relationships (or, really just relationships in general) can be. everyone was arguing, there was miscommunication all around, everyone thought they knew what was best, no one was seeing eye to eye. but when it comes down to it, they would do anything for each other. they understand each other better than anyone else ever could. i can’t see them spending another season on breakups and romance drama after the ending of s3.  

mike and el have already been separated once before. this time, mike knows for sure that she’s alive and that’s she’s with the byers. this time, el won’t be kept completely isolated away from everyone else. they’ve made plans to meet for the holidays. they can still call and talk to each other as much as they want. i’m hoping they handle being separated this time better than they did in s2. i don’t want mike to be moping and i don’t want el to spend a lot of the season thinking about how much she misses him. in fact, i think in their case that some distance could be good for them. the same for jancy and jopper, too, honestly. it’ll be nice to see them existing outside of these relationships while still acknowledging how important they are.   

as far as i know, the byers and el stuff has not started filming yet so all there is to speculate on are rumors, the audition tapes, and logical guesses about where the story goes after s3. el obviously moves away with the byers. we still don’t know where. she’ll still be mourning hopper and trying to figure out life without her powers. and, of course, she’ll be in a long distance relationship with mike. i think she’ll be having a hard time and she’ll wish that mike was around, but she’ll realize she’s got a pretty good support system around her now with the byers, too. i’m very, very excited for more joyce and el content particularly, but there’s gotta be some great scenes with her and will and jonathan as well. 

there’s only one audition tape that i can confidently tie into the byers + el plot(s?) and it’s the queen bee/mean girl character ‘angela’. if we’re running with the whole ‘there may be some truth to the audition vids’ thing, then this one teases that el will be going to school and that angela will be bullying her. this is something she would probably want to talk about with mike (b i g troy s1 vibes) but i don’t know if she actually would ? so this is probably more a thing that el and will could bond over or that she could talk about with joyce or maybe jonathan. i do think there will be at least a few calls between the two of them before the action really hits and the whole group is (hopefully...) reunited.

so, el -- at least in the beginning of s4 -- will be going to school where ‘angela’ bullies her, forming a bond with joyce + will + jonathan and becoming part of the family, mourning hopper (+ hopefully having conversations about him + his past with joyce), missing her friends back in hawkins, continuing to learn how to navigate life without her powers, and trying to maintain a long distance relationship with mike. 

mike... i’ve been seeing some wild theories about him today but they aren’t really that far-fetched i think. first, going back to the audition tapes, the ‘eddie’ audition i saw makes it seem like mike is going to be part of the hellfire club with dustin. i’ve recently learned that there’s another version of the scene where ‘eddie’ is only talking to dustin and mike might not be a part of the club after all. if he isn’t part of the club, then the basketball v. hellfire, jocks v. nerds thing turns into lucas v. dustin and mike’s probably there just caught in the middle while max is off distancing herself from everyone.

at this point, i really want mike and max to become good friends. i think the end of s3 gave them the perfect opportunity. s4 max has s2 mike vibes. it’s not the same situation at all, but he knows kinda what she’s feeling and they could connect through that + the fact that they’ll both be missing el. i also just really want... some wheeler siblings content. i’m hopeful that s4 gives us good nancy and mike scenes bc there’s no reason not to give us good nancy and mike scenes (+holly!). however...

while there’s proof that gaten and sadie and natalia and priah have all been filming since production restarted, and while i have reason to believe that caleb has been filming a lot inside/at the studio recently... there’s no evidence that finn has been on set. there’s none for maya and joe, either, but people have said that finn isn’t even in atlanta right now. maybe he is and maybe he just hasn’t been seen and maybe he’ll pop back up tomorrow. or, maybe he already filmed whatever he needed to film for hawkins before production stopped.  

the wild theory that’s popped up today is that everything gets to be too much for him in hawkins and he just... hops on a train to go visit el + the byers. i don’t know if i buy it, but it is interesting to note that he was sitting with them at the table read. and since we can guess that steve and robin will still be working at the video store, robin and nancy will be investigating pennhurst together, lucas and max may have some angst, joyce and murray are probably teaming up for the finding/saving hopper plot, and el is going to bond with will and jonathan, it seems like the order might mean a little something. i’d even bet that dustin and erica have scenes with them bonding over d&d.    

now this theory pretty much only exists because no one’s seen finn on set and one of the paps posted some pics of some trains. there’s also always theories about how there will be issues at home with the wheeler fam and if that’s going to happen, what better time than in s4 when all of his friends are pulling away and el’s gone again. so if he is missing el (and will) that much, and if he has any reason to worry about her and how she’s doing, or if the party becoming distant and issues at home are weighing on him and he feels like he needs to get away, he’s absolutely the type to venture off on a train by himself. i don’t know how it would work since he’s definitely supposed to still be in school and his friends/nancy at least would notice he’s gone, but.. it’s fun to think about and we’ve got zero actual content to go off of right now.  

another way i could see mike’s plot going is that he’s the one trying to keep the party together this season. playing mediator with lucas and dustin, becoming better friends with max, being the connection between the hawkins plot and the byers plot (along with nancy). 

there was also talk of him joining the track team bc the track has been set up with hawkins high colors for filming. but mike ‘this isn’t a stupid sports game’ wheeler? i don’t think so... basically, no one knows at the moment what’s happening with mike wheeler in s4 lol.

s4 mike is just like s4 byers fam -- a complete mystery to me currently. i don’t personally think that he’ll be leaving school and hopping on a train to visit el. i think he’ll be a part of the hellfire club with dustin, or that he won’t and instead will be attempting to keep the party from completely disbanding. i hope that we get wheeler siblings scenes and that max and mike have a breakthrough and become better friends. i also feel like he’ll be having some complicated feelings about hopper, the last interaction they had, etc. and, again, the whole long distance thing with el. 

so... mike and el broke up in s3. it was messy. but then they reconciled. and then hopper “died”. s3 ended with them at this weird place where she’s heard him say that he loves her and she’s told him that she loves him back. things are a little awkward in the scene bc everything has changed at this point, but a kiss, an ‘i love you’, planning to meet up on the holidays, and promising to call frequently all sounds like they’re back together and going to try making the long distance thing work to me. 

i think they’ll be together when s4 starts. i think that we’ll probably only see them talking on the phone or their radios for the first few eps. maybe we’ll see flashbacks or something to them being together on the holidays. the distance might be hard and they’re definitely going to be missing each other. like... el doesn’t have mike or hopper with her now and i’m thinking the party is going to be drifting apart, plus they’re both probably going to have other personal issues that have nothing to do with each other or the party. maybe they’ll be experiencing some emotional distancing of their own while dealing with the aftermath of hopper’s “death”, the move, and whatever’s going on with them at home and at school. i think that once they reunite (probably not until the last half of the season), they’re likely to be stronger than ever. 

now, onto personal theories that have zero basis. for some reason, i can’t get it out of my head that this season might dive into psychological horror a little bit ? like a greatest fears type of thing ?? and i keep thinking about brenner popping back up and using the people el loves to get to her or something and 👀👀