#iphigenia complex

[polari]

the first time i read the odyssey i was eight and it was an abridged version intended for younger readers. the first time my dad went to rehab i was eight and in the commotion of it nobody told me what was happening. i remember that his step was different — heavy and uneven — and that he seemed to flow in and out of himself, sometimes my father and sometimes some terrible other i wanted to hide from. and then he was gone for a while, and no one seemed sure when he would be back. it did not occur to me at this age to doubt odysseus’ course, or to question his version of events. i rooted for him, because his original failure proved he was the best of all fathers — every time i was in the path of my own father’s plough, i thought he would forget the trick of insanity and fail to see his child’s face in mine.

[margaretkart]

The failure of Greek myth retellings

This is a personal rant about how I, as a Greek and mythology lover, view these modern retellings and how they came out more as a disappointment.

Here are some examples of forced labelling from the book sites like Bookreads:

Do you see a pattern? Is not only they are telling the audience rather than showing how "feminist" are these retellings but also..

Man vs woman

According to the retellings all ancient Greek men are bad, sexist, misogynists, worthless, abusers and women are girlboss ✨. But it's obvious that humans regardless of gender are complex beings.

But when you read the Original epics you realise that women have as much importance in the story as men. But not in the way you are used to...

The women aren't afraid to speak their mind, they have agency, they are a driving force the admire, but it's not with shields, armor or physical strength. They are also showing it with kindness, empathy, cunning but also with anger, sorrow, vengeance.

Penelope, Electra, Antigone, Ariadne, Andromache, Helen, Cassandra etc. ARE strong women! They don't have to go to battle to prove it!

BUT that also doesn't mean we should glorify the women who are abusers and do wrong things!

Clytemnestra for example, exiled Orestes, had her daughter Electra a slave, showed proudly her Trojan women (also slaves) and killed Cassandra an innocent woman.. Do i understand how and why she acted? Yes 💯. Does this justifies her actions ? Of course no.

Medea, killed her brother and her children, and also poisoned Jason's next wife and her father because "she wanted to make him suffer like her". Do i understand why she did it? Yes. Does it justify to have everyone suffer because of one man? No.

Hera, punished several women and men alike because she couldn't do it on Zeus (because he is the king and stronger). Is cheating bad? Yes. Does it justify her to punish someone who was obviously a victim or was powerless against a god? No.

The retellings:

fail to do complex characters.

fail to let the audience come to their own conclusions who's right, wrong or neutral.

They fail to make daring characters without be labelled on a modern stereotype.

Fail to understand the norms of ancient Greece and how they shaped these stories.

Fail to realise that men and women are more complex than modern stereotypes.

I am not against retellings but do better! Making a great retelling respectful to the source and having complex characters with quality reading would be deeply appreciated.

And to the readers to not rely on retellings as "faithful resources".

[likethexan]

Gonna need people to stop erasing Clytemnestra’s jealousy over Cassandra

[michaelectras]

and what if i pulled out a special type of choice of object made by men and theory of psychoanalysis and made electra complex lucifer real. what then.

[polari]

[Transcript:

Hansel and Gretel's Father Explains

Children, I chose the woman because her skirts rustled when she undressed and because she'd bring my lunch to the woods and sit close on a fallen log, one hand on my leg, watching me eat. In winter the flowers her body smelled of helped me forget the wind sharpening itself like an axe blade over the frozen lake. God help me, I wanted to sleep forever curled up at her narrow breast. How many times I've followed the path we took that last day through the trees, the ravens' iron voices mocking my shamed flesh. I dreamed I saw a boy's blond hair matted with blood, the burned face of a woman seven feet tall, my crimes the damp sperm blossoms under her dress. And maybe I've only dreamed this: spring rain in the forest, new grass in the fields, your hands holding mine in the uneasy clasp, restless, hesitant, partially feigned, of childhood's helpless forgiveness.

]

Joseph Millar (Fortune, 2007)

[toxictoad]

Iphigenia is NOT "The one with the braincells" or "The competent one" She is ANGRY she is PRIDEFUL she HAS COMPLICATED FEELINGS ABOUT HER FATHER!

She's only marginally less off the rails than Achilles and she is full of spite. And before anyone says that PATROCLUS is the normal one: That boy has an inferiority complex a mile wide and is exclusively attracted to people who have anger issues and would fistfight Zeus

In short: They're all insane and I love them.

Also I hereby dub them The Doomed Polycule

[yannisdesk]

thinking about electra....

She's stereotyped for being ruthless, which is understandable. But she's also tragic the more I read between the lines.

She was the second-born of three daughters and a son. She clearly loved her father, but first-born Iphigenia was Agamemnon's favorite child. She possibly wanted to be the son her father always wanted, maybe thought she could fulfill that role, but then Orestes is born taking that possibility from her.

Then, Iphigenia is sacrificed, by Agamemnon no less, who then goes off to fight in a war across the sea for a whole decade. Electra is left with no older sister, she must fulfill the role of eldest child and daughter, no father, and to top it off, her mother becomes so consumed by grief and rage that she is negligent/abusive to her and her siblings.

Her feelings towards her siblings could be so complex. She clearly favored Orestes, possibly because she took care of him from his infant years as their mother was probably emotionally unavailable. In most interpretations, she is not antagonistic towards Chrysothemis but also doesn't view her favorably because she is not as assertive nor has a strong desire for their mother's comeuppance. And then there's Iphigenia...interestingly, Electra never displays any sort of strong feelings towards her. Sure, it's stated that she defends their father because he was ordered by the gods to sacrifice Iphigenia, but surely as the sibling who'd known her the longest she'd feel something? Maybe she felt deep resentment towards Iphigenia for being their father's favorite and thus she wasn't as affected by her brutal death as would be expected. It's twisted, but believable.

So she deals with this complicated situation for a decade. Her father returns, but before they can even break bread her mother kills him and makes her boy-toy the king, which causes her younger brother to run for his life out of fear of being murdered for being the next in line, thus severing her connection with her favorite sibling for the foreseeable future. Girl had it rough.

[sarafangirlart]

I actually hate it so much when retellings make it so Andromeda was willing to sacrifice herself, especially when it’s under the pretense of giving her “more agency”, bc her sacrifice is by definition the removal of her agency, something she tried to get away from so hard that they had to chain her just so they can leave her out to die.

It removes a very human element from her, it removes her fear, dread, hopes and dreams, her life with her friends and family taken from her through no fault of her own. So why make her self sacrificing to a fault? Why does every female character have to always put the needs of others before their own regardless of context? And why is that perceived as making a female character stronger or more complex? She’s not Iphigenia or Polyxena, she’s Andromeda.

It’s especially frustrating bc it’s only done to make Perseus look bad, not for Andromeda to “have her own voice”, bc Perseus literally and metaphorically freed her from this tragic fate and if we keep it that way then ppl might find Perseus complex and human and thats bad.

[lesbian-iphigenia]

Ohhh Iphigenia convincing herself she is the savior of Greece, that her sacrifice is necessary, that she will forever remember for it...oh my girl with a saviour complex how I love you

[gingermintpepper]

I think a lot about the depictions of Troilus' death that feature Achilles trying to prise him with a gift of doves instead of the immediate promise of death.

I've alluded to it before, but I tend to look at Achilles and Apollo as comparison cases - maybe not explicitly foils because I'm petty and that would imply that Achilles is narratively equal to Apollo and I don't want to give him that kind of honour even in a bit of casual analysis - but certainly as characters who gain a great deal of complexity when their actions are contextualised in context of each other's. The ambush of Troilus is just one of those funny little things that gets my mind a-whirring.

Because to me, Apollo's 'Troilus' so to speak is Kassandra. Kassandra, who Apollo coveted and wished to court. Kassandra, who was offered a great gift that would have undoubtedly forever marked her as one of Apollo's if she had accepted. Kassandra, who takes the gift but rejects the god and is cursed for her deception. Kassandra, whose curse makes her experience a thousand deaths over and over with no way of communicating such disaster to those around her.

The Achilles who falls in love with Troilus upon seeing his beauty and wishes to make a conquest of him is much the same to me. The biggest difference between Troilus and Kassandra though is that Troilus' rejection is much more physical. Those doves are nothing more than a symbol of the type of sacrifice Troilus would be; if he accepted them, he would die a docile death, sweet and quiet, a necessary casualty to turn the winds like Iphigenia. Except Achilles' love is nothing like Agamemnon's and it is nothing like Apollo's.

In the face of rejection, Achilles' instinct is to maim, it is to destroy. He was always going to kill Troilus - for the sake of the campaign, the boy had to die - but there was no dove's death, no quick and easy knife through the heart, no spit into an open mouth. Troilus' death is a brutal, drawn-out thing, a chase through the sand, a dragging that bruises his skin, a ripping of his hair, a violation of his flesh, a maiming of his corpse. As far as sacrifices go, it's an apalling one. None would dare to treat an animal set to be sacrificed before a god with that kind of brutality, sacrifices were meant to be blemishless and beautiful, something the gods would find appealing. Iphigenia was given away in her wedding finery, Kassandra was dressed as though to seduce a god. Troilus was a dove with his wings broken and his feathers pulled, whose death cries must've been like the terrible hollering of all birds when they try to alert their kind to a predator.

And as fucked as that is, I love it. It sets Achilles' love as this stormy, squallish thing that bleeds into his rage, it establishes that for him, love and wrath are but two sides of the same blade. Troilus was a necessary sacrifice, but he is in no way given even a modicum of the same dignity his contemporaries are and a part of me is just continually intrigued by this.

[polari]

the portrayal of the father throughout anaïs mitchell’s 2012 album young man in america is such a thesis statement. all of these fathers existing within one album, within one father. the contradiction is the point. your father made you and feels nothing, your father binds you and calls you his sweet babe, your father loved you and could never look at you. your father is god, and his father is god. his god is not your father. you are your father, but there will always be another father to request blood, to feed his sheep from the grass over your grave, to be tall while you are small, to love you in his way. be it ill, or be it good (father tell me) makes you bind me hand and foot (every day a dying day)? my father was a lord of land. my daddy was a repo man. your daddy was a farmer. your daddy was a builder. father is a shepherd. like a splinter in the wood, he couldn’t pull you from his heels. put me out into the streets, did not give a damn for me. love you, love you, love you. he did, he did, he did. did not give a damn. be it ox or be it ram to please the god of abraham? oh father, shepherd us. he stood high above you, sky around his head, sawdust in his hair; a scarecrow of a man. he couldn’t draw you near to him. anywhere but where he was. anywhere but where you were. didn’t i gleam in my father’s eye? he was never one to praise anybody to his face. who are you to understand the ways of him who holds the blade? who gave you an axe to grind? who am i? daddy, daddy, gonna wish you never had me. your daddy didn’t leave a will, he left a shovel and a hole to fill. he buried her and the babe within. he brought the flock to feed there. and no one taught me how to cry. grinding your teeth trying to sleep it off, waking up with an aching jaw. who gave you a path to find? who are you to stay the hand of him who made you? who am i? father is a shepherd, and the shepherd’s work is never done. who am i? who gave you a road to hoe? be it ill or be it good makes you bind me hand and foot? father shepherd us (you are forgiven). love you, (you are forgiven) love you, (you are forgiven) love you. be it ill or be it good? who gave you your sorrow? oh, my sweet babe. he did, he did, he did. i am doing as i should.

[monaluisa]

So glad I found u and I love the hws ancients lore. Drop your rome headcanons PLSSS

Sorry for the late response! I really needed time to sit and think about him lol.

Rome Headcanons

His favorite food is pomegranates :)

Idk how familiar you are with my aph ancients lore, but looking at all of it, I think one of the reasons he’s perceived as being so much more affectionate to Feliciano rather than Lovino is because Feliciano reminds Romulus of Mamarce (Etruria—Romulus’ brother who he killed around 353 BC) in some ways (slight physical resemblance, love of art and indulgence) without posing a threat. Tiberius (Tuscany—Mamarce’s son) resembles Mamarce a lot more and inherited his love of the natural world and mysticism, but he can never forgive Romulus for killing his father, and one day, Romulus fears, Tiberius will kill him like he killed Mamarce.

Feliciano, on the other hand, is endlessly adoring of Romulus, so there’s nothing to worry about. He’s essentially this proxy for Romulus to appreciate the softer side of himself, which he allegedly destroyed when he killed Mamarce. I love this fucked up family.

Holy shit I just realized the implications of that for Lovino. Lovino wants nothing more than to be what Romulus was, but is impeded by his own inferiority complex, part of which comes from his perception that Romulus loved Feliciano more. So Lovino is trying to earn Romulus’ love posthumously without realizing that whatever love Romulus may have held back was because he saw too much of himself in Lovino. Thank you for making me realize this anon.

Revels in humans’ perceptions of him as a god and all the fantastical legends they attach to him

Terminally in love with Helena (Ancient Greece but more specifically Athens). He will do fucking anything for that lady he loves her so much. It’s very difficult for him to be apart from her for a long period of time because he feels like she’s the only one in front of whom he doesn’t have to keep up the whole act of being more than a man.

Side note on the above: writing Tears for Iphigenia (a fic where—without spoiling anything—Romulus is an absolute dick to Helena) DESTROYED me because I love shipping them so much. These two are my Odysseus and Penelope but if if Odysseus and Penelope were both extremely ambitious and kind of heartless at times and blinded by their pride and low-key dysfunctional as fuck sometimes

It’s just like Romulus thought in the Tyrrheniad: “What a fine wife she would make, he thought dismally, if they were both mortal and free of such troubles as plague or war.” (Chapter 10)

This is alluded to in a few of my fics, but was romantically fascinated by Carthage’s daughter, Iberia. This is the origin of the myth of Romulus and Dido

Just as well, Romulus’ murder of Mamarce is the origin of the Romulus and Remus myth

At once, he respects Germania and sees him as beneath him. I imagine Germania was captured at the battle of Strasbourg in 357 AD, lived as a slave to Romulus and worked as a bodyguard until he escaped in 410 during the Sack of Rome by the Visigoths. On one hand, Romulus admired him, thinking of him like a barbarian Sparta, feared and renowned for his strength and military prowess. Yet unlike Sparta, who declined and died without Romulus being a major factor in it, Romulus feels that Germania can never achieve the prestige he deserves because of how insanely powerful Romulus is. In any other age, he feels that Germania could have been great, but the stars were not in his favor, and so he was a slave to Rome. It’s like how Ajax would have been the Best of the Greeks in the Iliad if not for Achilles but I only say that because I have Madeline Miller on the brain.

As far as body type goes he’s got a nice mix of muscle and fat. Buff dad bod if that makes sense? (I cannot tell whether this is because I go feral for that body type or because I literally plugged my boyfriend’s stats in for Romulus when I wrote the wrestling scene in the Tyrrheniad since he’s the same height and also a wrestler)

Not a headcanon but shoutout to the wrestler boyfriend for how much he contributed to Romulus. Back when I was writing the Tyrrheniad I consulted him on everything from wrestling techniques to how it feels to be so terminally in love with someone (in Romulus’ case, Helena) that you feel like you’re gonna explode. Wrestler boyfriend is the unsung hero of this blog fr.

Wrestler boyfriend also says that Romulus would be an ass guy and not a tits guy and I can’t really argue with that

On a final, lighter note, he’s the kind of guy to watch some sport he absolutely knows nothing about at the Olympics (like chariot racing or something), watch the best in Greece who have been training for years and years, and think “I could do that .” (He could not.)

[thoughts-and-ideas-and-reblogs]

Helen of Sparta: A Horror Retelling

I honestly think a story told from the viewpoint of Helen during the Illiad would be an interesting concept since it's written that she actually came to hate Paris and herself for their parts in the war and only wanted to go home by the end, and to me this feels ripe for a psychological horror story.

This story should be one showing how trapped Helen really is. Everyone in Troy blames her for the war, and there are constant riots that need to be suppressed as they call for her and Paris's blood, so she can't leave the palace without a full guard who secretly despises her as well. However, she also can't flee to the Greek camp because there's every chance they may kill her since she would be seen as an adulteress, willing or not, and those were punished harshly. Meanwhile, Paris is just a fool-hardy fop who claims to love her deeply but never really thinks about her. His words are all about what a beautiful prize she is, and he tends to ignore how heartbroken and miserable she really is with him and even acts annoyed when she tries to tell him. His sisters and mother are even less forgiving since they see her as a vile temptress who is leading them and their country to their deaths, and none of them are impressed by her abandoning her daughter, Hermione. The only reprieve she finds is in Hector, who understands the actual blame lies in his foolish brother's actions and that she has no way of fighting against the gods' judgment. An added benefit is that because Hector truly loves his wife, Andromache, he isn't attracted to her, and she feels she finally has a true friend in him.

However, despite her friendship, that does not wash away the guilt she feels for the many lives ended or ruined by her abduction, and this leaks into her life.

In her dreams, she sees the many soldiers on both sides who died in her name. She sees her sacrificed niece, Iphigenia, who coldly stares at her. She sees the faces of the women and girls who were ruined by this war and enslaved to be playthings.

She hallucinates her daughter, Hermione, who is still as young as the last time she saw her. She imagines her sister and brothers looking at her with disappointment. She thinks of the betrayal Menaleus must've felt and the many wives and families left in Greece while their husbands fought to retrieve her.

She remembers the many Trojans chanting derogatory names directed at her despite her divine and queenly heritage. Can they be blamed, though? She brought the war to their door and now they suffer for it. She knows of many women who have lost their husbands and sons who fought to keep them in the city and protect their homes from facing the nearby villages' fate.

I think these ideas are where the author or illustrator can go crazy with the imagery to show how horrifying and suffocating her situation is and make the reader sympathize with her plight. Of course, she is not truly to blame for the Trojan War, but this would give her a greater voice, humanize her, and give her some complexity lost in various adaptations of the Illiad.

[margaretkart]

Honestly, this needs to be said more often: if you’re going to be a diehard fan of Epic: The Musical please take the time to read the Odyssey and Iliad.

These are texts that have been around for nearly three thousand years, and Homer’s work isn’t exactly hidden behind paywalls. We’re talking public domain epics available on dozens of websites, many even in modern translations. There’s really no excuse to confidently post headcanons or "hot takes" about characters like Odysseus while being completely unaware of what Homer actually wrote.

It gets frustrating when people make sweeping claims, like “Odysseus would’ve been horrified about Agamemnon sacrificing his daughter,” when... hello? Not only was Odysseus very aware of the plan in other sources, he’s literally the guy who helped trick Iphigenia into coming to Aulis. In Euripides and the Cypria, he’s even the one pushing for the sacrifice to happen for the sake of the war. That’s not even interpretation it’s written! So spreading misinformation because “well, the musical made him look soft and morally conflicted” is just lazy.

And don’t even get started on the bizarre insistence that Odysseus was just a cheater who didn’t love Penelope. This is a man who was literally held captive and assaulted by not one but two goddesses, and yet never stopped longing for home. He’s not some player archetype, you’re confusing him with modern tropes. Homer paints him as flawed, clever, and deeply human, yes but loyal in his own way, struggling through divine interference just to return to his wife and son. His image has been more distorted by fandom takes in the last years than it ever was during thousands of years of oral and written tradition. It’s time to stop reducing him to a meme or "messy husband energy" and start recognizing him for what he is: one of literature’s most iconic, complex heroes.

If you love these characters and this world, that’s great BUT it feels a little disrespectful to twist canon into takes while never bothering to open the actual text. It’s not about being a scholar. It’s about respecting the foundation you’re building your fandom on.

[foursaints]

taryn duarte. peter pettigrew. making your weakness your life. being scared and making bad choices and betraying your family, but only because they betrayed you first, they never cared, they always left you out, never treated you seriously, as an equal. the betrayal is a mistake. your end up regreting it. trying to stop it. a knife. cutting of your own hand vs cutting your husband's throat. the sacrifice. jude says taryn looks like a sacrifice in her wedding dress. peter sacrifices his hand to revive the dark lord. there's something there, something about your fear mixing with your anger. tell me i'm not crazy and you see it too

🙂‍↕️🙂‍↕️ oh i see it. this is beautifully put. i think this ask describes the overarching iphigenia complex (and accompanying set of thematics) that they share... like! making weakness your "strength" is one of the few pre-prescribed avenues for agency that a young girl has at her disposal when navigating a hostile & threatening reality. it is also the one most commonly peddled to us. but its such a dangerous lie/trap with such questionable outcomes that im obsessed with using fictional characters to see that lie to its natural conclusion, which is almost always just as violent as the alternative (as with iphigenia).

i would also add lily evans as the third part of this character study. all three of them sort of orbit the general fantasy of "what if i could be so good & lovable, it would absolve me of being human?"

[dootznbootz]

A bit of a weird rant but I feel like people have to stop erasing Odysseus and Penelope's European roots. I'm tired of these extremely americanized versions of GREEK people. Don't get me wrong, I love my Americans! I've got so many got friends over there and there are genuinely great people over there. But in general I've seen Americans, and definitely not just white Americans, are most guilty of this. Europeans are just as culture-filled and beautiful people as Asians and Americans and Africans are, so why is their culture being erased for "representation" purposes? Why is European culture just a blank slate for representation of other cultures. It feels so invaliding, especially with the "White people have no culture trend". Oh, in that case the Italians, Greeks, Slavs, Germanic people, Northern Europeans and so many more just don't matter?? And I'm not talking about casting people of color in films about Greek mythology, no no no, I think that's fine! I'm just saying when adapting Greek Mythology, people should be more thoughtful of Greek culture, traditions, names, and they should have respect for it. At least enough respect to not bash their gods and their history and call it "just a copy of other mythologies" or to call their religious figures stupid names. But nooooo, people don't care because europeans BAD they did everything WRONG their cultures are INVALID and they have plague carrying rats carrying in their dumpsters 🤦 Okay the plague carrying rats joke is actually kinda funny imo but I've seen people making really racist claims about Europeans along those lines. Like holy they're not to blame for something people did 400 years ago?? Tf??

It's absolutely not a weird rant at all, I'm American and even I get frustrated and annoyed by it, I can't imagine how frustrating it is as someone who is Greek and seeing something you hold so dear and love so much becoming something completely different and taking what makes it Greek Mythology no longer feel Greek. ｡:ﾟ(;´∩`;)ﾟ:｡

Like, I literally just saw a post recently (which, ofc, people can post and create what they want... but I also get to complain :3 ) about how they would love to see a Bacchae horror movie done in modern day, (which hgoly shit, yes??? please??) but then talked about it being in RURAL AMERICA!!!

Like, I'm from rural America and I genuinely love it so so much, I love my woods, my rivers, my valleys, my small AF towns, etc. BUT IF SOMETHING IS BASED ON THE BACCHAE, IT SHOULD BE DONE IN GREECE!!! (in my opinion) Greece has plenty of Rural areas where such a film could take place!

Greek Mythology, and many other religion/mythologies as well for that matter, aren't something where I feel like it's necessarily "fine" if you change the background/culture of where it takes place, because that is most likely going to change the entire story! It's not like it's Legend of Zelda or Lord of the Rings where the setting is vaguely medieval and fantasy in nature and therefore one can change it's background/setting and it's not going to change the story too much. These myths are very central to a lot of Greece's history and culture! Changing the culture honestly WILL change the story quite a bit!

And just in general, I hate the whole joke of "The amount of misogyny here is on the level of the Ancient Greeks" and/or the stereotypes and/or just... cruelty?? that some folks have for Greek Mythology?? Or like the fact that it seems that folks will always take any sort of nuanced/complex situation and always assume the worst. ("Agamemon happily killed Iphigenia! Horrible bloodthirsty father!" when y'all, he was a MESS!) Or then making a big deal about affection and touch in Greek Texts, when that's just... that? Affection and touch. Stop looking at these texts with an American Lens!

And even just, like, researching culture and history. ;~; I've literally never been outside the US (money :') ) and while it's hard to research sometimes (I find a lot of shit that's for the perspectives of tourists, which is not what I wannttttt) it's not like it's incredibly hard to add Greek culture and life to retellings/fics!!!

Even some modern stuff and/or stuff that wasn't around during that specific era of History (can't find EVERYTHING if it's over 3000+ years old lol :') ) but slang, mannerisms, dances, etc. can be added! Even if folks DO take liberties with their stories and such, (I do!) you can add lil bits that like, "This is Greece!". It's my goal that if someone who is Greek happens to come across my Fics/headcanons, I hope to at least try to have as often as possible where they can have a "Hey! :D That's something I do!" moment.

And yes! It's sometimes hard with like, what is natural and instinctive to me as an American from rural Wisconsin. I say "y'all" a lot, it's an everyday word for me, (not normal for most Wisconsinites but it's what I personally grew up around) but Greeks don't say that and so I refrain from using it when I have characters talk to one another. BECAUSE IT'S NOT MIDWESTERN AMERICA! IT'S GREECE!!! slkdjfdslk Even if I'm writing in English, it just feels wrong to have them say that! I can't speak or read Greek but I'm still gonna try and stay with what feels true to Greek!

(I once saw a headcanon that started off good, and that I agree with as well, for Odysseus having a different accent from many of his fellow kings as he's from Ithaca (all having different accents based on where they're from but you get the gist) and with him being from small, rural island, people assume him to less well spoken like Antenor did in Book 3 of the Iliad but soon realizing that despite his rural accent that he's incredibly intelligent and cunning. Which yes!!! super fun! But then they said that he'd speak like a Cajun or an Appalachian. He's Ithacan! And would have an Ithacan accent! Rural accents exist in every languageeeee lskdjflj

Like I tend to get silly with historical context and getting subversive with characters and such. I definitely am not historically accurate in many ways and nor do I claim to be. I also tend to play around with the characters in ways that I don't think many others do (whether people enjoy it or not, I'm having fun. You'll have to rip my Water Wife away from my cold, dead hands 😤) but I think it's SUPER important to still have it feel at least a LITTLE like Greece! I'm definitely not perfect in my representation of Greek culture in my characterization and story but I think it's important to at least TRY.

Penelope telling a young Telemachus, "To have his eyes fourteen" as he goes out to play, characters moving hands around a lot when talking (something that's really fun for me as I naturally do that haha), etc. It IS possible to have these little snippets of Greek Culture in stories while still writing your own story and having fun with it!

Small things such as Telemachus, Odysseus, and Laertes doing a Nisiotika together (possibly Odyssseus and Telemachus helping support and steady old man Laertes a bit) as a lil bit of a soft "Three generations finally dancing together"

Did Mycenaean Greece have the same instruments that are often used for these traditional dances nowadays? Nope! They also wouldn't be wearing foustanellas and such, probably tunics or skirts. But it's still something that shows a lil love to GREECE. Something that is showing a little love to its history and current culture in a way. (Yes, I could do it with what is known with the dances of the Mycenaean Era, but the image of all three of them holding hands in a line, Laertes in the center as his son and grandson help support him, all of them smiling and happy. Laertes doing the footwork a little slower but Odysseus and Telemachus don't mind. Penelope laughing as she watches her family being silly together again. like?? lsdkfj It just melts my heart, okay???)

In my opinion, it's kind of like how some folks draw Penelope in a Chiton even though the Odyssey takes place in the Mycenaean era. While she would've had a layered skirt and most likely would have worn her breasts out and painted suns on her cheeks, Penelope is still Penelope even in Chiton because it's still GREEK in nature. She just got with the new fashion trends of later eras💃😂

And okay, I DID read Percy Jackson as a kid and I was really obsessed with it. I know better now (In all honesty, I was mostly attached to the KIDS and the humor) and now I'm like, frustrated with Rick Riordan. He says that he has everything take place in New York because he loves where he grew up so much, when like... THIS IS STILL GREEK! The story mostly emphasizes the whole demigod aspect than the GREEK demigod aspect ;~;

And I'm sorry to say, but Athens exists xD A BIG CITY WITH LOTS OF PEOPLE. Sure, it's still different from New York, as every city has its own culture and stuff but big cities are still big cities! Why couldn't Percy have grown up there??

I mean, I know that I for sure am having fun with putting my own experiences with my writing (Penelope being the youngest sister with so many big brothers (and Iphithime :3 ), I am very much using my own grandpa as some inspiration for Laertes (short, stocky, quiet, stubborn, loves plants, loves his wife and family, etc), I'm making Hector's Horse, Xanthos, a cremello because my horse is a cremello, etc.). I mean, I play a lot with the fact that Penelope has a lot of possible Naiad ancestry as I live near so many rivers, fishing is big in my family, playing in creeks as a kid, and just really loving freshwater settings. It's really fun and self-indulgent for me to have a small Penelope playing the creek and hanging out with her family in the rivers. BUT GREECE HAS RIVERS TOO! The Eurotas River isn't the Mississippi river, but I know that plenty of Greek folks have probably had some of the same experiences that I've had 🥹 And I've genuinely been having a lot of fun researching the natural flora and fauna of Greece for this! :D

I'm all over the place and rambley but lskdjf dsklj I almost feel like some Americans feel like it being ancient Greece makes it as though it is a completely different world and there is no way to still keep it at least somewhat Greek in nature and make it relatable. As though it's impossible for an audience to relate to cultures that aren't their own and time periods from long ago. It's so baffling to me.