#jayvik discourse

[pigfartsviatardis]

Lmao mr Lloyd over here with his jayvik headcanons… tryna be all neutral and diplomatic with his answer… “yes yes it transcends labels… it can be whatever you want it to be… and here’s what I want it to be. They are living together. They have a charming cottage by the water. They are happily married with four children- mr linke what are you doing here-”

*gunshots*

[mofsblog]

"This is some gay shit" Good. Silly. Fair enough. Doesn't inherently invalidate other interpretations of the relationship. Honestly yeah, it is kind of gay regardless of their canonical relationship status

"There's literally no platonic explanation for th-" WRONG!! KILLING YOU WITH AMATANORMATIVITY KILLING LOBSTERS 🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞🦞

[wenclair-more-like-whenclair]

All it takes for a character to be interpreted as heterosexual is simply for the character to exist. A character can never kiss a member of the opposite gender, hook up with one, or show any signs of attraction and still be viewed as straight. Meanwhile, two members of the same gender can have the most intimate onscreen relationship, flirt, check each other out, show visible signs of being in love with the other, and somehow none of that is enough to even SUGGEST that they might be queer.

What a gross double standard. Sexuality is not “straight until proven otherwise” like so many believe it to be. Newsflash to all the straight normies out there, your favorite non labeled, sexuality unconfirmed character in your favorite show is NOT STRAIGHT just bc they haven’t been confirmed as queer. Use your fucking brains for once. It’s all about diving into media and picking up on subtext until that subtext suggests queerness. Then, suddenly, everyone loses their fucking ability to interpret a piece of media. Have you considered that: if all signs point to them being gay then maybe they actually really are just gay???

[showsandstuff]

I am so conflicted about the drama in the arcane fandom regarding Meljayvik because it's all just so messy.

For one, not everyone likes every ship and that is okay. You don't have to like Meljayce or Jayvik, it's okay to only like one of the two or none at all.

But then there is the disposable black gf trope that makes this whole thing tricky. I hate this trope so damn much, it isn't fair. At all.

But then also Mel is SO MUCH more than Jayces lover in the story, like her romantic relationship with Jayce was a tiny part of her character and their relationship with each other as well. So I don't like the idea of reducing her to just that. Mel's arc this season was all about her other qualities, her intelligence, her power and her relationship to her mother, not about her love for Jayce or whatever.

I absolutely love Mel as a character. She went from someone who I thought would be a cunning villain, to this caring and intelligent leader, who will do whatever she thinks is best for her people.

Yet people always reduce her to "the girl that gets in the way of the Yaoi" or "Jayce’s love interest", like no come on?! She never got in the way of anything and she isn't just Jayce’s girlfriend. She doesn't lose her purpose if people don't like her together with Jayce, because that wasn't even what her arc was about! Free my girl!

[neon-sunsets]

okay. let’s talk about jayce’s monologue, since people are calling him ableist.

for context, not that it matters: I have a significant mobility disability and a progressive chronic illness which, even when managed, can kill me. I’m not in exactly the same boat as viktor since my disease isn’t terminal, but I’ve had very similar experiences to him. this shapes my perception of him and of this storyline.

this is the monologue:

You’ve always wanted to cure what you thought were weaknesses. Your leg. Your disease. But you were never broken, Viktor. There’s beauty in imperfections. They made you what you are. An inseparable piece of everything I admired about you.

first, it should be noted that “what you thought were weaknesses” is not the same thing as “things that are good.” jayce is not saying that viktor’s disease is or was a good thing. what he is saying is that he admired (loved) everything that viktor was, which included the things viktor thought made him a burden or a problem. remember also that jayce almost doomed the world because he couldn’t let viktor die; he would never imply that viktor dying was a good thing.

the next question, then, is whether viktor sees himself as a burden or not. I think it’s implied that he does — it’s certainly not unrealistic to think that viktor might have come to view himself, or at least his disease, as a burden and a flaw. disabled people often view ourselves that way either because of internalized ableism or because society constantly tells us that we’re burdens and that our bodies are abnormal and wrong. viktor displays behaviors that indicate internalized ableism, including hiding the fact that he’s coughing up blood from jayce the first few times it happens and generally refusing to be in the public eye in a way that is self-effacing and not just him being private. yes, he says in act 1 of season 1 that he believes in himself, but he does also call himself a cripple in a dismissive way in that same scene; also, he doesn’t have the disease at that point. arguably the entire scene where he runs despite clearly being in pain is an example of his internalized ableism, but that’s another post.

more evidence for viktor’s perception of himself being negative is that he clearly has a sense that he doesn’t deserve to be loved (specifically by jayce, but maybe also in general). we see this when he asks jayce why he’s still persisting in saving him. we see this with his generally self-effacing behavior. we see this with the fact that in all of season 1, the only person he allows to touch him is jayce, and that the only person he actively touches in the entire show is jayce. viktor is reserved and not good with his emotions, which is a huge part of his arc this season. all of these behaviors point to him having a negative self-perception.

I think it’s important to really consider how jayce perceives viktor and how viktor perceives himself. I don’t think this season handled everything perfectly, but I think they handled this very well. viktor has been written with a fullness and complexity that most disabled characters don’t ever get. him being morally grey doesn’t mean he’s “problematic” or “bad representation.” obviously I’m only one disabled person, but I really love jayce and viktor and I think their story is beautifully written.

[mordenandmerry]

Broke: devaluing the female love interest because she “gets in the way” of a gay ship

Woke: shipping a gay ship so that the female love interest can be gay with me

[shmeas]

Some people are so annoying about shipping these days like

“Can’t two guys just be friends??!!”

Like?? No?? Not if I have any say in it.

[sixtharrow]

It’s weird. Way back in the day (like, pre-Voltron Legendary Defender era) the relationship between two unrelated fictional guys being considered “brotherly” would have been quite validating to us slash shippers. It’s like, oh wow, they’re that close, huh. They already consider themselves each other’s family. They’d die for each other. We’d have thought a romantic relationship stemming from that was perfectly logical!

And it’s not like the ship would ever be canon, so having that sort of deep bond was the next best thing. The fanworks would just have to take it from there.

But it’s so different these days. A character says “you’re like a brother to me” and now shipping two unrelated fictional guys is literally incest? Even though this has been a trope in straight romances for forever? Wow, the view has really shifted! Of course, shippers back in the day were much looser regarding canon roles, ages, power dynamics, or hell, even whether or not two characters existed in the same universe in the first place! But this is one argument I’ve just never been a fan of. Like, I used to say my first gf was my sister all the damn time because I didn’t know how else to interpret my feeings for her early on. And the fact that this seems to disproportionately affect m/m ships and f/f ships is telling, too. Also, people’s views of each other can...change? Sure, maybe Character A once saw Character B as his brother, but something is different now, and so he has to go and navigate those feelings. I mean the whole point of fanworks is exploration. For the characters as well as the writer. And just like back in the day, the ships are rarely canonized, which means something is always being changed or expanded. We just didn't have killjoys in our ears telling us we couldn’t ship two unrelated fictional guys because one of them once referred to the other as a brother or whatever. Well, we did, cause homophobes exist, we just didn’t usually hear it from fellow shippers.

[covencritter]

arcane ship discourse is like 1000x funnier when you realize these goons are fighting about LEAGUE OF LEGENDS characters. do y’all realize how humiliating that is for you guys?

[andrielmpreglovechild]

If I see one more person say "but in canon-" to someone talking about a headcanon or fanon ship I am JUMPING through their phone and strangling them 🥰

[duncanor]

"not liking MelJay is misogynoir"

"caitvi is outshined by Jayvik, this is lesbophobic"

"not shipping Skyvik is sexist"

"Viktor always being hc as trans is sexist and transphobic"

CAN Y'ALL SHUT THE FUCK UP AND STOP MISUSING PROGRESSIVE TERMINOLOGY FOR BASELESS FANDOM BULLSHIT I SWEAR TO GOD-

PLEASE, talk about your blorbo, it's not a popularity contest but if you want people to love your shit you outta talk, write and draw about it.

That's just how it works 😭 you can't throw a fit just because people don't care about the same shit you do.

Please talk more about your love of Mel Medarda! Write those funky lesbians resolving a murder mystery! Do art about Sky, use the little information we have on her and expend on her character! Post meta of your favorite ship! Do propaganda !!!

Please keep creating for your blorbos! KEEP POSTING !

[sweetbananachips]

people’s inability to understand that some ships are shipped BECAUSE they’re toxic will be the death of me

[beelzeballing]

having your two favorite arcane characters be viktor and mel AND shipping jayvik at the same time is like. on one hand i cannot stop collecting w's but also the whole fandom has it out for me cuz the jayvik shippers hate mel and the mel lovers hate jayvik. why cant we all just hold hands. why must we fight.

[gynii]

Fuck it, I'm feeling controversial.

I understand the complaints people have with the whole joke of "jayvik was gayer than caitvi" and how it's dismissive of the cannon wlw relationship. But jayvik IS gayer than caitvi this season!

I think the writers really dropped the ball on caitvi this season. They flattened their dynamic in parts 2 and 3, and even the actual sex scene fell flat because of how tone deaf it was. Their happy little domestic ending, even though they never actually resolved any differences or properly confronted literally everything that happened that season, feels unearned and dare i say heteronormative.

I was 100% more looking forward to caitvi's dynamic for season 2 and was really disappointed in the writing throughout most of the season. In comparison jayviks weird madoka magica type spiritual ideological "it was always you" partnership does feel queerer.

Just because Caitlin and vi had on screen sex does not mean their relationship is more intense or more queer, and beyond the initial excitement I had for that scene, it felt gratuitous, unearned, and emotionally unimportant? Like, they never really expressed, discussed or resolved their feelings for eachother in any meaningful way before or after.

This is actually just me being upset at how caitvi was written I'm gonna be honest. I'm happy it's indisputably canon but ultimately disappointed by how shallow their writing was when I thought their dynamic was super interesting in the first season, and the conflict from the first part felt promising in the type of character drama it would spawn, only for them to suddenly decide they're chill in part 2??? And then have sex in jinx's cell after like rarely interacting before hand?? As if having sex resolved their complex interpersonal issues?? Only to never interact in the finale battle 🤨

The writers gave us flashy scenes of passionate making out and vi's (very good looking) bare back, to distract us from the fuck all writing they did to actually develop their relationship

So yeah, jayvik is gayer than caitvi. They actually got to meaningfully talk with eachother this season...

[munchy-k]

lately I've been rly into arcane and jayvik and honestly I'm shocked by the amount of people who say "you can't ship them bc they're just friends in canon"

????

like am I going crazy or are people getting more puritanical about shipping?? like is it not common knowledge that ships don't have to be canon??

whats going on ? ?? 😭

[dawnstruck]

I swear to God, all those dumb fucking idiots who watched Arcane with their eyes closed and genuinely think that JayVik and/or Vanco are actual biological brothers and therefore shouldn't be shipped are giving me violent flashbacks to ye olden days of Voltron when people insisted Sheith were (adopted or biological) brothers with absolutely no canonical evidence to back up those claims.

Don't ship something if it's not your cup of tea. Write your AUs where they are related. But first please improve your media literacy because omg, people who are siblings do not say "He's like a brother to me."

And for the record: Let people ship their Wincest and Thorki and whatever, too. You don't have to like it. You don't have to approve of it. There are some pairings (many of them very popular) that absolutely want to make me claw my fucking eyes out. And you know what I do about that? I filter out said ships on AO3. I do not go into the tags. I don't leave inane "Aren't they brothers?1!?" comments on ship content.

There will always be things in fandom that go against your personal beliefs or preferences. But, to me, a lot of times, the whole "But they are brothers" protests read more like "But they are both guys". It's just a different flavor of homophobia/anti-slash rhetoric.

So fine, be bigoted and judgmental - but please do it in the privacy of your head or in personal conversations with friends who agree with you. Don't complain to shippers and content creators. And don't make incorrect claims about any blood relations just because you watched a show with your eyes closed and the tv on mute.

Rant over.