#like padme can be right for the wrong reasons

[antianakin]

People be like "Padme says there's still good in Anakin like Luke does and Luke is heroic for saying it which means Padme must also automatically be heroic because she says the same thing as Luke" without realizing that sometimes cinematic parallels are there to highlight the DIFFERENCES between the two things instead of the SIMILARITIES between the two things.

[fanfic-obsessed]

Knowing

I have just had the worst, or best, brainwave and I need to share it. 

Here is an AU for you.

Vader thinks that he killed his wife and child, right?

Right up until he meets little Leia Organa when she is 10 years old. Like his one brain cell woke the fuck up when he was confronted with a passionate, angry little girl with Padme’s eyes and his chin. This is maybe a month after she was kidnapped and returned to Alderaan. Leia decides that she would need to learn how to be a senator and insists that Bail takes her with him to the next session of the imperial senate.  

Bail does not want to bring her to the imperial senate. However he knows very well who her birth parents were, it is either Bail brings Leia to the Imperial Senate or Leia brings Leia to the Imperial Senate, probably bringing with her someone she really shouldn’t (Like actual Obi Wan Kenobi-I just want you to picture for a moment, because Bail certainly did, looking up and realizing that Leia is charging down the halls outside his office, dragging with her a bemused and sandy Obi Wan, both in badly conceived disguises).

Bail is super stressed as he tries to run a rebellion while riding herd on his well meaning but very direct 10 year old daughter on top of his normal duties as an imperial senator. Bail is also very afraid that the moment the Emperor sees Leia, he will make the connection between Leia and Padme Amidala (The emperor does not socialize with the senate any longer, thank the stars). He has no idea that Vader was once Anakin Skywalker, so has no cause to be more careful than normal (because Vader) about Vader seeing Leia. As such Bail does not even notice when Vader stops to consider them from the shadows. Leia is haranguing another planet’s senatorial aide who had chosen the wrong moment to make a bigoted joke. 

Vader is very abruptly, though mentally, thrown back to this very hallway 12 years earlier where he watched his wife do the same thing, for the same reason, possibly to this same aide. Though Leia is still a child and Padme was an adult, he can still see his wife in this little girl.

The realization that this is Padme’s child hits him with the force of a Ventanor. Followed immediately, before he even realized that this meant that his child was standing in front of him, by the soul deep knowledge that she must be protected from the Emperor at all costs. 

Vader had known for years that his suit had been designed to cause him more pain, he just thought he deserved it. The thought of Palpatine getting ahold of Padme’s daughter was abhorrent. Vader sticks to the shadows and watches, seeing how well Bail loved and protected Leia. 

While he is thinking(read Obsessing) about his daughter, the part of him that is always centered on Obi Wan points out that his old master had been one of the last people to see Padme after Vader choked her. But the little voice that spoke in Padme’s tones piped up, the shock of Leia living being enough to finally make this little voice loud enough to be heard, saying that until recently Obi Wan believed that Anakin Skywalker was all the way dead, he was protecting their child as best as he knew how. 

And Vader has issues with just about every choice Obi Wan Kenobi ever made. But he will admit that hiding Padme’s daughter was the best option. 

As Vader knows that paying too much attention to Leia would draw the Emperor’s attention, he would be willing to wait until the right moment to get his daughter back. His one concession to his need to protect her was taking one of his personal guard, one of the few units still made up almost entirely of clones, and assigning them to be Leia Organa’s bodyguard, her shadow (I also want you to take a moment to consider what that did for Bail’s stress level).  And then Vader gets to planning. 

With his one brain cell awake and focused on the Organa’s it takes Vader all of 15 minutes to realize that Bail Organa is running the Rebellion (I want it to be clear, this is not a slight on Bail at all, Anakin Skywalker was a war general, well educated through the Jedi on a number of subjects, and does have a fair measure of politics learning from both his former master and his dead wife).  However Vader is no more loyal to the Empire than Anakin was to the Republic.  In fact, upon realizing that Padme’s daughter had lived Vader firmly decided that he needed to find a way to kill Palpatine to crown Leia.  With the realization that Bail, and likely Leia (neither Vader nor Anakin have any idea what activities are appropriate for a 10 year old), are part of the Rebellion, Vader decides that The Rebellion would succeed (or everyone would die trying). 

Note: Vader only really gets away with no one realizing that he now supported the Rebellion because, well, no one can quite believe that Darth Vader supports the Rebellion. Most people think there is a new type of Space Madness, and that one of the symptoms is hallucinating Darth Vader giving you intel for the Rebellion.

By the time Leia was a teenager, rumors abound about the odd way that Vader acted around her. By sheer happenstance (and some judicial violence on Vader’s part) these rumors had never reached the Emperor. A good deal of these rumors implied that Vader was looking to the Princess of Alderaan as a wife.  The reaction Vader had, the only time it was brought up in front of him, was…impressive, even for the amount of violence he normally dealt out. Still there are members of Vader’s personal guard who watch over Leia whenever she is on Imperial Center, and no one wants to repeat the time when she was 12 when one of Bail enemies tried to kidnap her for ransom.  It took an entire corps of engineers to put those levels back to rights (after they scrubbed the blood off).  

So we get all the way up to the timeframe of ANH. The Death Star in this does not start out under the control of Darth Vader. It starts out under the control of Tarkin, it is important to note this. Leia still sends out R2D2 and C3P0 to find Obi Wan Kenobi, none of that part changes. 

It is after Leia is captured that Darth Vader shows up (does he lurk silently in any system that Leia is due to be in as often as he can get away with…why yes, yes he does). Tarkin had wanted Leia tortured, however no one wanted to find out how many decks Vader would spread their entrails across for touching her.  Vader arrives on the bridge just as Tarkin is threatening to blow up Alderaan. Tarkin orders the weapon to begin its charge. 

Leia, Leia who is so like her mother in that she will use every weapon in her arsenal, turns to Darth Vader and speaks to him for the first time. ‘Please’ she said, no effort to hide her distress, ‘please save my planet’

Something Leia had no cause to know-An angel who she resembled once thanked Anakin Skywalker for saving her planet. 

Tarkin is dead almost before she finishes speaking. Vader orders the DS weapons to power down and disengage, which is done post haste. Then announces that Leia Organa was now in control. 

So Leia now owns a Death Star (genuine article-never used). Leia is not sure if that is how this works, but no one is arguing with the tall man in black who has OPINIONS and will enforce them.  Leia manages to communicate this to her parents, who take a shuttle up to the space station to figure out what the fuck is going on, and what, if anything, they need to do next.

Two hours later: Obi Wan Kenobi, Luke Skywalker, Han Solo, R2D2, C3P0, and Chewbacca have just been caught trying to sneak onto the Death Star. The Organas are still on board, trying to get answers (In that time Vader has said precisely five words to them ‘You have raised her well��).  It is to this room that the troopers manning the station (who are deeply confused and a bit conflicted because it seems like they may have all been forcibly defected from the Empire, but no one is willing to disobey Lord Vader) bring Obi Wan and co. and present them to Leia, as she is considered in command.  Somehow Luke’s full name (I kind of picture him still dumbly introducing himself to Leia, followed with ‘we’re here to rescue you’) gets used before the situation deteriorates. Which naturally causes everything to deteriorate further and faster than before.  

Far away on Imperial Center, the Emperor pauses in the middle of a hallway ‘I feel’ he says to no one ‘a disturbance in the Force.’ another pause ‘like some shit has just hit the fan’

Far away on Dagobah Yoda looks up, ‘weird, shit just got’

[saphronethaleph]

“There are… rumours, in the Senate, about Master Kenobi,” Palpatine confided. “Many believe he is not fit for this assignment.”

“Not fit?” Anakin repeated. “Why would anyone think that?”

Palpatine spread his hands slightly. “They say his mind has become fogged by the influence of a certain female Senator.”

Anakin blinked.

“That’s ridiculous,” he said. “Who?”

“No one knows who she is,” Palpatine said, slyly. “Only that she is a Senator.”

“Oh, okay then,” Anakin replied. “It’s complete nonsense.”

Palpatine frowned.

“You seem very certain about that, Anakin,” he noted.

“Yeah, but rumours are usually pretty specific about details like that,” Anakin shrugged. “It’s a rumour in the Senate, right? So it’s a rumour about a Senator, too.”

Palpatine began to object, then paused.

“Well, yes, but not specifically-” he began.

“Are there rumours about a Senator whose judgement has been impaired because she’s sleeping with a Jedi?” Anakin went on. “Because if there is then we just line them up and that explains who it is. Or who it’s supposed to be.”

He frowned, minutely. “My money’s on Mon Mothma, honestly. Or Bail Organa. Are we sure the rumour said female?”

Palpatine raised a hand.

“Well-” he began, but Anakin was already standing up.

“Actually, I’m going to ask someone else about this,” he said. “See you later, Chancellor!”

“Anakin, I’m trying to-” Palpatine said, but he was talking to an empty office.

“Really?” Padme asked, then shook her head. “No, that’s not one I’ve heard.”

“You’re sure it’s not one that’s passed you by?” Anakin asked. “I don’t know how much Senators talk to one another.”

“We do it a lot,” Padme told him dryly. “It’s the main thing we have time to do. Are you sure the rumour said female? Because I’m getting a lot of my information from Bail Organa, and he’d be my first guess.”

“He was my second,” Anakin told his wife. “But, no, Palpatine was sure it was a female senator.”

“Then I’m out of ideas,” Padme said. “I’d have thought Mon Mothma, but she’s happily married to Perrin Fertha and he looks more like Qui-Gon Jinn than Obi-Wan.”

“Yeah, I guess so,” Anakin said. “And, honestly, I don’t really believe it myself… he didn’t shack up with Satine even when it would have been a net benefit to the Order and the Galaxy and stuff.”

He frowned. “Unless…”

“Unless?” Padme asked. “That sounds like you’ve had an idea, Ani.”

“What about if the rumour was trying to throw me off?” Anakin asked. “I heard it from the Chancellor, but maybe he has another reason to say it. He is a politician… maybe Obi-Wan is seeing Palpatine, and the female senator bit was to throw me off?”

Padme blinked.

“I’m fairly sure they don’t like one another very much?” she tried.

“That’s just what they want us to think, right?” Anakin asked. “Think about it! That’s actually a way better way to disguise a relationship than what we’ve been doing.”

He glanced at Padme. “What have we been doing to disguise our relationship, actually? I’m sure there’s something.”

“We don’t tell anyone that we’re married?” Padme said. “It’s worked so far.”

“True,” Anakin agreed, relieved. “I’m glad we’re doing something.”

Padme smiled, then her smile turned into a frown. “Now I think about it, I can’t remember a time when Palpatine was interested in women – as a Senator or as a Chancellor. So it’s not immediately wrong… I just can’t think of a time he was interested in men either.”

Anakin looked thoughtful. “I think… I’m trying to think of a time he’s looked at Obi-Wan that way, but the only person I can think of he looked at that way is me…”

Obi-Wan’s commlink rang, and he nearly crashed his starfighter into the raw matter of hyperspace itself.

“What is it?” he asked, picking up the commlink in one hand.

“Master!” Anakin said. “I think Palpatine is just using you to get to me!”

Obi-Wan, who had no context whatsoever, just sort of stared for several seconds.

“What?” he said, then noticed that the nav computer was giving him urgent warnings and yanked back on the hyperdrive lever. His Actis fighter dropped out of hyperspace, and he disengaged from the hyperspace ring with the practised motion of someone who had become very, very good at a thing they fundamentally didn’t like doing very much.

“I thought about how he’s been looking at me,” Anakin explained. “Whatever he’s told you, I don’t think it’s real.”

“Anakin, what are you-” Obi-Wan began, then paused. “Actually… wait.”

“What?” Anakin asked. “You don’t believe me?”

“I am trying to think,” Obi-Wan answered. “And fly a ship, as well. I have a job to do before Cody gets here.”

“All right, Master, I’ll wait,” Anakin said. “But this is important. I don’t want your heart to be broken.”

“My – no, this is important, Anakin,” Obi-Wan replied. “You killed Dooku, correct?”

“This seems completely irrelevant, but yes,” Anakin answered. “Why?”

“I was thinking about something Dooku told me once,” Obi-Wan told Anakin. “He said that Darth Sidious had control of a lot of Senators.”

“Still not seeing the connection, unless you think those Senators have been seducing you,” Anakin replied.

“I think the Chancellor is Sidious,” Obi-Wan declared. “And, Anakin, you’re going to have to tell the Council and get help sorting it out, I am landing in less than two minutes.”

Anakin was silent for several seconds of those less than two minutes.

“If you want to break up with him, Master, you don’t need the whole Jedi Council to do it for you,” he said. “And if you think he’s hideous, why did you start sleeping with him in the first place?”

“Put Padme on the line,” Obi-Wan suggested. “No, wait.”

“Waiting, Master,” Anakin replied.

Obi-Wan took a deep, calming breath.

“Put your wife on the line,” he resumed. “Or, if she’s not there, tell her that I’m fairly sure Chancellor Palpatine is the other Sith we’ve been looking for. And get her to call a vote of no confidence, she’s good at those.”

Satisfied that that would buy him the time he needed, he began making his final landing approach.

It was only a shame he wouldn’t get to see their faces, really. But desperate times called for desperate measures.

[thegingerwrites]

Marry Me

An obikin wedding ficlet during the Clone Wars based on this post:

Anidala's secret marriage is not a secret anymore. It comes out and despite Anakin and Padme's worst fears everyone is… okay with it? Obviously it isn't ideal that it happened in the first place but since it happened Anakin and Padme have been extremely professional. Anakin has grown and matured as a Jedi and a general. Padme has not let it interfere with her responsibilities in the Senate. There are a few technicalities to take care of in order to make sure that Anakin is no longer assigned to protect her on missions but otherwise, things are remarkably fine.

Ahsoka is actually the one to bring it up first (just like the comic) saying, "I can't believe you had a wedding on Naboo and didn't invite me."

"It was a secret! And I didn't even know you then."

"Yeah, but like, how much of wedding was it then? Was Padme's family there?"

"No, like I said: secret."

"And you didn't have anyone there."

"Just the officiant and the witness."

"You didn't even have Obi-Wan there."

"No, he definitely didn't make the invite list."

The Jedi don't do marriage but that doesn't mean they don't know about it. The topic comes up in galactic cultures courses. Younglings sometimes play at it in the creche. Way back in the archives there are some similar ceremonies in the Jedi tradition. So Ahsoka knows about weddings. They're kind of a childish fascination for some of the Jedi. The fact that she came so close to experiencing one first hand was cheated out of it by the war and her master is a pretty big deal.

"So it wasn't much of a wedding. You and Padme are both pretty dramatic, I'm surprised you were both so okay with not making a big deal out of it."

"Hey--"

"Especially when there was no reason to make it so secretive. Honestly, you two should do it again, the whole thing but actually celebrate it this time."

"Well, we're kind of in the middle of something here."

And that should be it but then Ahsoka mentions it to Rex. And then someone brings the idea up in front of Obi-Wan. Before long the idea comes before the Council and to everyone's surprise, they take it seriously. What if they could use a vow renewal to increase the Jedi's profile with the Republic at large. Symbolically uniting themselves with the Senate. Proving wrong the stereotype that they are dispassionate and unfeeling.

So they're doing this, the Jedi are planning a wedding.

They're doing it in the midst of fighting a war. Between missions, Anakin is shipped off to fittings and cake tastings and planning sessions that have the same level of solemnity as a strategy meeting. If they're doing this, going to all of this trouble, making a huge production, wasting time and resources, they're going to do it right.

Obi-Wan gets caught up in it too. Because he and Anakin are The Team, or they are well on their way to becoming it. They lead missions with the Open Circle Fleet. Their names are becoming known throughout the galaxy as they fight more battles, push back the Separatists, and bring what peace they can to planets everywhere. If this wedding is a matter of public image, and it is, people are going to expect, just as Ahsoka did, for Obi-Wan to be there at Anakin's side when it happens.

So when Anakin goes for his formal robes fitting, Obi-Wan goes too. Obi-Wan is there during the planning sessions or is commed in. He's basically Anakin's best man and so he is involved every step of the way.

And he hates it, at least at first. Not only is he incredibly hurt by the fact that Anakin got married in secret in the first place, now he gets to have it rubbed in his face in front of the entire galaxy. This is an insult and an embarrassment and Obi-Wan doesn't get to say that to anyone so he keeps it bottled up inside. The fact that Anakin is happy with Padme and gets to keep what he has with her is…a lot.

The wedding planning takes months and slowly, Obi-Wan warms up to the idea. When he does, it is that aspect that convinces him. Anakin is happy. Padme makes him happy. And after being at war for over a year, surely anything that makes Anakin happy it a good thing. Part of him wishes he could have been the one to make Anakin feel that way (happy that is. Padme makes Anakin happy in ways Obi-Wan could never. They are not--they could not--no. If this is what Anakin needs, Obi-wan should count himself lucky that Anakin never asked that of him.) but this is what Anakin has chosen and like it or not, Obi-Wan needs to get on board.

So then Obi-Wan gets into it. He is at every wedding planning meeting. He has opinions on everything. He is more organized than their official wedding planner. He talks Anakin's ear off about the details, the guest list, the colors, the order of ceremony.

And eventually Anakin has had enough. He shuts down whenever Obi-Wan tries to bring it up. He stops answering Obi-Wan's comm calls when he can be sure that Obi-Wan isn't in danger. He shows up late to his own rehearsal dinner.

Anakin should be happy. He knows this. He is on the brink of getting everything he wanted: the woman of his dreams, the promise of a family, and he gets to keep his place with the Jedi.

But he can't ignore the growing feeling that something is wrong. It feels perverse, that the more that everyone else looks forward to his wedding, the less he wants to go through with it. The first time that thought occurs to him, Anakin freezes. He goes completely still, utterly silent in the midst of a conversation with Padme and Obi-Wan, Mace Windu and their wedding planner. Anakin doesn't have to go through with this. He doesn't have to walk down the aisle or stand their at the head of the Senate Chamber. He could simply not do it.

Obi-Wan finds Anakin in the hangar bar at the Jedi temple, fiddling with something inconsequential on his starship. He is ostensibly working on his ship but really, he is playing around with the idea of getting in his ship and leaving the planet.

"Anakin, they're waiting for you," Obi-Wan says, as though Anakin doesn't know.

Anakin manages to look at him but he can't find the words he needs to explain himself. "I made a mistake."

"What do you mean?"

"I can't do this."

Obi-Wan stands there in front of him, his hands folded in the sleeves of his robes, utterly calm. He doesn't panic, he doesn't over-react. In the face of Anakin's on-coming breakdown, he only seems to become more composed. "You're certain?"

"Of course, I'm not certain!" Anakin says. "All I know is I can't go out there again. I can't stand there in front of everyone and smile. I can't do it."

"Alright then."

"Alright?" Anakin feels like he is losing his mind. He has no idea what he wants from Obi-Wan. A lecture? Reassurance? Anger? Frustration? Comfort? But he is getting nothing from him.

"Well, the decision to get married in the first place was made in haste. It goes against conventional wisdom but I'm sure you can regret in haste as well."

Is that what Anakin is feeling? Regret? He doesn't regret falling in love with Padme. He doesn't regret the days he spent by the lakeside on Naboo. He doesn't regret the comfort his relationship has given him, the idea of someone to come home to.

But the idea of standing up in front of everyone and binding himself to Padme? The idea of Senate and the Jedi and the Galaxy at large watching as Anakin makes this decision even as he is making it for the second time? That makes Anakin's skin crawl.

Something about it feels wrong. And even if Anakin can't quite bring himself to call one of the tangled threads of emotion he is currently experiencing regret, that isn't a reason to go through with it.

Obi-Wan interrupts his thoughts by placing a hand on Anakin's shoulder. Anakin meant to snap back at him or banter with him, something, but he got caught up in the same thought spiral that has been dragging him down for weeks. "I agreed to stand beside you, Anakin. Not just for the wedding, though I will be there for you as well if you choose to let it take place. The fact is, I have been at your side for years now and I'm not sure there is anywhere else I would rather be. Choose to renew your vows or choose to run, I will stand by you." He closes his mouth and almost stops himself from continuing but then the thought forces its way out regardless. "I will have faith in whatever decision you choose to make."

Anakin is stricken. He almost would have preferred a lecture. This…this understanding from Obi-Wan is more moving than anything they have ever shared with each other. More honest and true. And on the cusp of making what feels in the Force like a life-altering decision-- although again, the marriage is already legal--it is overwhelming.

The force with which Anakin grabs Obi-Wan, wraps his arms around him and buries his face into is shoulder, makes Obi-Wan take a step back upon impact. But he holds him, takes Anakin into his arms too, and takes some of his weight as Anakin collapses into him.

"Thank you," Anakin says. It doesn't matter what, specifically, his gratitude is for. It is big and vast and Obi-Wan-shaped. Thank you for being at my side, thank you for not hating me, thank you for letting me make mistakes, thank you for helping me through them. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

"Of course, dear one."

Because Obi-Wan's love for him has always been an 'of course'. Even when neither of them could say it. Even when neither of them could locate the emotion in themselves and point at it. The love was there. Of course it was.

Anakin kisses Obi-Wan first. He pulls back enough to look Obi-Wan in the eye, steels himself and takes the plunge. Obi-Wan stiffens in surprise for the smallest moment before softening, accepting Anakin's kiss and returning it with his own affection. They push and pull and they do it together. And after so many weeks of a growing sense of wrongness this, finally, feels right.

"I should be marrying you tomorrow," Anakin says when they part. When he thinks about it, it feels like the two of them, far more than him and Padme, have been married for over a year now. "I wish I could."

Obi-Wan is quiet for a moment. The corners of his mouth lifted in a gentle smile, content enough in the Force that his presence there makes no ripples. "Well, we did go to all this trouble…"

"What are you saying?"

"I'm saying you have several difficult conversations ahead of you but if it helps all of us save face--"

"You would marry me?"

"Darling, I think we've just established that for all intents and purposes, we already are."

[tennessoui]

Ok, but what if in the jealous AU, Anakin receives a week off from the war and Padme plans a vacation on Naboo. Anakin is fine with that, but since the secret restaurant date he is regularly cheking on Obi-Wan, so he calls him but his master is not taking his calls. So a little paranoid he calls to Depa or Fisto and the answer is: Dont worry about Obi-Wan, hes perfectly fine, hes is a diplomatic mission/vacation on Alderaan and he is like: "Sorry Padmé i have to go, I have a secret and important mission on Alderaan."

Meanwhile, Obi-wan's diplomatic mission is plotting with Bail againts the Chancellor, or actual vacation bc he is a bitch and petty and if Anakin can take a vacation with his senator, then he of course can take a vacation with his senator friend-suposed-lover-his-padawan-is-jealous-of.

this ask understands the characters in the jealous au (this prompt fill and this follow-up prompt fill) soooo well like

a) im imagining anakin off-handedly tells padmé that he's been given a week of home planet leave, wherein his troops will meet up with master kit fisto's troops and his padawan will learn from depa during master billaba's next mission to secure jedi ruins (ahsoka's special interest) & padmé is like 'oh that's good to know and it aligns very well with my own upcoming break from senatorial duties. remember when you wanted to run away together to a spa? let's do that now!'

b) anakin is not like thrilled but is 'fine with that' lmaooo like he could take it or leave it honestly. sounds like a fun thing to do. he'll be more enthusiastic he's sure during the actual trip, honey, he's just tired right now and can't help plan it

c) but hey, spa week with his wife is something to do

d) but THEN waIT why has he just received notice that obi-wan is ALSO taking a week break's from the war in the form of a diplomatic mission??? and he's going to alderaan of all places?? that is not good. that is not good at all. anakin is NOT fine with that. he's done enough """"""diplomatic missions""""" to naboo that he knows very well that the only diplomacy getting done is the negotiator himself!! this is horrible!!

e) like didn't anakin TELL obi-wan not to do this very thing?? didn't he warn him? didn't he say that it wasn't allowed?? and now obi-wan is flaunting this affair--this--this insult to the very institute of MARRIAGE right in front of his face!! no. no this takes precedent over everything. anakin cannot be sitting in a spa with his lovely wife for company when his master is getting laid somewhere in the galaxy. it's just wrong. it's just not done.

f) anakin confronts obi-wan about the infidelity and the sanctity of marriage and the awfulness of bail organa specifically, and obi-wan points out that hey, why are you assuming breha isn't in on it? i'm going to alderaan for a reason after all. maybe you and i share a taste for royalty.......

g) .....anakin kidnaps obi-wan for a week. or, well, obi-wan calls it a kidnapping but he could turn the ship around at any point and he has his weapon and after they get back he does not file an incident report. he just bitches about it (even though this is by far the best case scenario in his opinion - overthrowing palpatine can wait.)

[galactic-rhea]

So like, with Empress Padme, what the more nefarious side of that government? Like yeah we focus on the goofy bits but is she doing massive military expansions so they can “better fight lawlessness in the outer rim”? Are they murdering political opponents? Is there an Inquisition still? I’m curious.

All these are good questions that I do want to draw, but days just have certain number of hours nksdfjnsdfsdf

Padmé's regency is actually trying to revert a lot of Palpatine's, lots of laws to amend lots of changes in the system, lots of how power is held. In her mind, she's actually trying to do control damage. The massive murders are mostly at the high profile generals and lots of Palpatine's aligned politicians. Padmé's seize of power left a lot of people unhappy, and the most unhappy ones are the ones that were quite alright with Palpatine's, she's dealing with like, 3 murders attempts per day, plus a bunch of generals and politicians with money trying to do a coup because she seems too soft and too progressive (why the hell is she diverting the money from the military?).

Don't get me wrong, she's still evil, is just that Palpatine put the bar so damn low 😂

To give you an idea, most of Vader's job these days are focused in stopping uprisings right and left comming from super rich generals and moffs like Tarkin and the like that aren't very happy about having their power and place questioned. She's mostly enforcing agressively, what she never could accomplish as a senator, which also includes stopping slavery (vader's giddy about this), and probably in her future plans there's some little agressive negotiations with the Hutts (vader's more than giddy about this, he's on his knees actually).

So, to summarize, it seems contradictory because Padmé at heart still believes in democracy, she just doesn't believe that anyone in the imperial senate as it is would vote for a politician on their right mind (spoiler: she isnt' in her right mind) and thus she's doing lots of good stuff in the bad way. In general her goverment is way less brutal than Palpatine's, which makes a lot of people very complacent and less likely to go actively against her because wow, social programs! That's nice, thank you. But she's still like, inviting adversary politicians for dinner and then they get murdered ala red wedding. There's actually a fair degree of demilitarization.

Inquisitors are still there, and their job is, well, for more stealth missions stuff and tracking radicals and spying and the like, rather than looking for jedi. They're more of a secret service with super powers.

Considering she quite literally worked with the rebellion before being able to reunite with her little wheeze wheeze and kill Palps, Bail and Mon know that the only reason they aren't dead is probably because she just doesn't want to, lol, they're in such a bad spot there, like imagine the awkward meetings.

And I do promise the darker stuff is coming bhjbdskhbhjs

[marvelstars]

Star Wars is an uncool story and that´s what made it great

Something I love about Lucas take on Epic movies like Star Wars is the fact that he wanted to tackle very complex concepts like tiranny, fascism, physical abuse, emotional abuse, the choice between good and evil, justice, mercy, redemption, forgiveness, etc. not from the pov of typical hollywoord movies in which the anti -hero can commit hundreds of murders and is still good and cool while the villain is cartoonisly a villain without any nuance or complexity to their evil, they are just evil for the sake of it.

In Star Wars case I feel like Lucas wanted to turn all of it on it´s head and ask the hard questions: what if our heros decisions had real consequences good and bad? what if being a hero or a villain isn´t something already decided by a narrative but something decided by the characters themselves? What if doing good and bad had direct impact on the well being of the world around them?

For example in the first movie Luke became a hero of the rebellion destroying the death star, a clean victory agaisnt evil, only to be told by Yoda that "war doesn´t make someone great" and being shown in the cave that in his violence he was becoming like his archienemy, the man who killed his father, Darth Vader.

We are later shown Darth Vader is Luke´s father so Luke understands that killing his father meant to kill a part of himself and refused to do so while keeping his compromise of fighting the Empire no matter the cost to himself. Luke remains true to himself until the end and the narrative gives him the victory for this by getting his father´s soul back and the end of the Empire, the Emperor and Darth Vader.

We are later shown from where Yoda got his perspective on War, by becoming active participants on the Clone wars and knowingly lead a slave army the Jedi lost the war, they just didn´t know it, from the moment the Jedi became generals all Palpatine had to do was say the words and all active Jedi would be a casualty of war. The Jedi expected to win the war with their hability and POWER and that was used agaisnt them, they had a good intention but the means were not exactly good and the narrative shows actual consequences for this.

Padme was a great leader for her planet who still had trouble getting in contact with what the Republic had become, she could not understand how it could so easily sacrifice her planet in the name of economic interest, she still tried to do what she tought was her duty but she no longer trusted the republic to get things done, she knew enough to make an impact but she didn´t have the means to battle Palpatine as a sith, only as a Chancellor, she still managed to stop his plans for 10 years, without knowing it. She fell in love with the boy who saved her planet who risked his life for her and her people because it was the right thing to do, while knowing his darker side as a result of his trauma(slavery, isolation, his mother´s death) Padme tried to save him and his soul but her love wasnt enough, because trauma can´t be changed with the best of intentions, it doesn´t work like that, people can´t be made to change they have to want it. Padme dies of heartache but her legacy and love for Anakin and wish to change the republic lives on in her children Luke and Leia.

Anakin is the main character who pictures Lucas perspective, part of the reason why Anakin was initiatily so disliked in the prequels was because people were expecting the old formula of cool cold hearted with a hint of good anti- hero, what we got was a good, warm and capable person deeply hurt by the trauma of slavery with the physical and emotional scars to show it, who grew up in a world completely different to his own, trusted the wrong people who took advantage of his youth and had a fall of grace as a result losing everything from his body to his family. He became the villain who lost his humanity out of love.

The republic itself was put in question, the same people who fought alongside the Jedi in the clone wars were the same people who lead the Empire and many of them even died on the Death Star. They didn´t believe they were evil, they just tought they were doing their jobs and giving their service to the Empire who used to be the Republic. The Old republic became the Empire because in many ways it actually acted like it only in smaller ways, an institution who creates soldiers to use them as cannon fodder and serves itself with slave labor from the outer rim isn´t something that is going to become something virtous, it makes sense the leadership of this republic is the same one who made legal for Palpatine to become the Emperor and legal to destroy the Jedi Order. This same Senate is the one Palpatine disolves on ANH because he no longer needs them.

The narrative doesn´t give Anakin any mercy, the acts he made agaisnt the Jedi in the name of love for Padme and seeking peace for the Republic cost him his children, wife, life and body. We meet him as an innocent child who wanted to free the slaves on Tatooine more than anything only to find our his heros, the Jedi, were not interested in doing that and he had to sacrifice his mother to belong to them if he wanted to be a Jedi at all or free and later when he decides to try and save his Wife by any means, sacrificing the Jedi he finds himself trapped completely in the world the Emperor created for him. He is aware of this, he doesn´t seek forgiveness, he just uses what is left for him to try and fix what he broke in the galaxy.

Fandom often does this with Sith characters as well, they look cool so they are allowed to be evil but only until it doens´t make them uncomfortable, that´s what they get wrong about the Sith, Anakin had to actually do despicable actions in the darkside because that´s what choosing the darkside does to people, there´s nothing cool or mysterious about it. So Anakin actions when he fell don´t show him cool, they show him as someone who has been dehumanized, who lost his humanity after showing himself to be a deeply compasionate person who only wanted to do good for others. Falling to the darkside matters.

In the end the story shows there´s a way out of the darkside if you choose it, it isn´t easy, it may mean you have to sacrifice yourself but it may be the only way to get your humanity back, remembering the person you really were without forgetting your responsibilities for your actions and that´s Vader´s choice in the end, Vader chooses Luke and his ideals over his dreams for the galaxy and his love and loyalty for the Emperor and the Empire because he saw them more worthy of being saved. He didn´t expect anything for himself in the end but he got it because redemption isn´t a gift or a privilege, it is a choice and he choose it.

It´s a deeply nuanced story pictured in very simple ways, a tale of good and evil who also aks hard questions but the end is redemption and freedom for all.

[ahsoka-in-a-hood]

Sometimes we get onto the idea of Obi Wan being attached(tm) to Anakin. Him just not killing Anakin is the usual suspect. There's also the way his grief held him down for ten years in the show. That was fun.

My personal pet agenda is the various conversations in tcw Obi Wan and Anakin have about the general idea of padawans who leave the order. They take on a weird tone at times. Especially that one in the deleted utapau arc. To be harsh: Obi Wan doesn't quite say it directly, but arguably conveys the vibe that leaving the Order would be wrong and disappointing.

Which is not good, in my opinion!

I don't think this (which you can take as an interpretation, it's been a while since I've actually watched the scenes now) is some sort of deliberate manipulation on his part. I suspect that he's fallen into a common pitfall of parents and teachers: wanting too much for your child or student to succeed. This is what makes attachment(tm) a culprit. He made a promise to Qui Gon. He made a commitment to Anakin. He took a risk by insisting on his training. And on top of all that, he really likes having Anakin around. It's easy to think that he just wanted what was best for him. What a happy coincidence that what's best for Anakin has also become necessary to his own sense of self and what makes him happy. Right?

(I really did find the vibe of their tcw conversations about these things off)

But that's just the cartoon. In the movie- Well, in the movie, he mostly just makes a comment about Anakin's crush (which was just a crush at the time) and later is aware he's two-timing him with Padme (sorry, couldn't resist), but just sort of decides to not talk about it with him because everyone is happier that way. We know he made an important promise, and we know he was happiest with Anakin by his side.

So not so much. But it meshes well enough, for him to have avoided the idea of having to let Anakin go, for him to not take the path he was training him for.

One last thing: this is barely relevant. I mean it's an interesting character detail, for sure. It's a layer to their relationship that's fun to think about. But it's unnecessary, in a way. For one thing, Anakin did want to be a jedi- he wanted more, and he was conflicted about things, but Obi Wan maybe being a little bit clingy about this one thing wasn't the reason for him sticking around. He had his own reasons too. Secondly, while they might have been more honest with each other if Anakin had decided to leave the Order to be openly married and start a family… Palpatine would still exist, and would still want to take him as an apprentice. Anakin would still have issues of his own that would drive him to fall.

So this interpretation probably doesn't change the outcome. It's just for fun.

[fellthemarvelous]

The number of people who defend Order 66 is concerning, especially because it was clearly based on a lie (like all genocides are). Like....y'all remember that we literally witnessed Palpatine twist the Jedi's attempt to arrest him for being the one responsible for the Clone Wars by telling everyone the Jedi were trying to take over, yeah?

The number of people who don't understand that Palpatine committed treason and passed it off as self-defense and a reason to declare himself Emperor is wild. And if for some reason, you still want to justify his crimes against the Jedi, AHSOKA TANO WASN'T A JEDI ANYMORE AND HE STILL TRIED TO HAVE HER EXECUTED!! And then he created The Inquisitorious with the sole purpose of killing any remaining Jedi and other Force sensitive individuals. They kidnapped Force sensitive children so they could indoctrinate them.

I feel like people do not think about this stuff, or they like to say "lol it's not that deep" when the whole issue is that people cannot stand to look any deeper than what their black and white views only allow them to see.

Anakin Skywalker, the one to bring balance to the Force, is a perfect example of how fandom thinks in black and white.

On one hand, you have fans who say "Anakin did nothing wrong".

They are the ones who like to demonize the Jedi, blame the Jedi for all of Anakin's problems, blame Mace Windu for being a big meany-head poo-poo pants to Anakin (spoiler alert: he wasn't, but my feelings on fandom's treatment of Mace Windu requires its own lengthy post), blame Padme and Ahsoka, blame Obi-Wan and Yoda, and then have the gall to say that Palpatine was right all along when it was Palpatine who was the architect for the Clone Wars to begin with!!! He was able to manipulate Anakin through fear, and fear of losing Padme is what caused Anakin to willingly commit genocide against his own people. And side note: Palpatine was ready to discard Anakin and replace him with Luke in Return of the Jedi!

Anakin is responsible. His actions were evil, monstrous, and deliberate. He made the choice. He is guilty of all the horrific crimes of which he has been accused. (And I'm not judging fans because I'm a fan myself, but it is possible to love him while accepting that he did really horrible things.)

On the other hand, you have fans who say "Anakin never cared about anyone" as a way to explain why he became Darth Vader.

None of that is even remotely accurate. Anakin loved deeply. Ahsoka wasn't lying when she told Ezra that Anakin was so kind, cared deeply about his friends, and looked out for them until the end. Ahsoka wasn't wrong when she was able to admit that he was a good master. Painting Anakin as evil from the beginning is dehumanizing and tries to erase the fact that everyone is flawed. Everyone makes mistakes. Everyone screws up. Perfection is literally impossible.

Star Wars has repeatedly shown the humanity (for lack of a better word) of the enemy as well. Anakin's fall to the dark sides doesn't erase the good he did. His story is a cautionary tale, a warning that falling to the dark side can happen to anyone when they give into fear and hatred.

And it's why he deserved to become a Force ghost. Becoming a Force ghost wasn’t a reward. It was a responsibility. He now carries the memory of every atrocity he committed, and must live with that knowledge so others can learn from his mistakes. He's a lesson the Jedi Order will carry on in the future.

He's Anakin Skywalker. He spent half his life living in the light and half living in the dark. He was among the kindest and also the cruelest. He's chaotic and a walking contradiction. He's the story of the Jedi and of the Sith. He achieved balance despite his fall, and he chose to do the right thing in the end, just like a Jedi.

It isn't like he's been absolved of his sins. Instead he's consciously experiencing all his greatest atrocities and having to come to terms with the pain and suffering he caused, but his wisdom will help others. He was the Chosen One though. The Force created him for the very specific purpose to bringing balance to the Force, and when he fulfilled the prophecy, he was given the chance to carry on as a Force ghost even though it meant having to live with the knowledge of the horrible things he'd done and coming to terms with it. Becoming a Force ghost was not a get-out-of-jail-free card.

Because at the end of the day, the Jedi in no way deserved Order 66 (literally no one deserves genocide) and the Empire has always been the bad guys. They were the bad guys long before season two of Andor came out. Everyone wants to talk about the Ghorman genocide while skimming over the fact that it was the genocide of the Jedi that heralded the rise of the Empire in the first place.

Feel how you want about the Jedi, that's not the issue here. The issue is watching fans justify what happened to the Jedi while we are literally watching people justify real-world systems of oppression and violence.

Don't forget that Jedi survivors, families with Force sensitive members, and Jedi sympathizers were routinely rounded up and executed by the Empire. Helping the Jedi in any way became a crime. Being born Force sensitive during the reign of the Empire came with the risk of capture, torture, indoctrination or death.

Not one thing the Jedi did during the Clone Wars will ever justify Order 66. The Empire ruled with fear, arrested those who spoke out against them, and jailed people on bogus charges so they could have more slaves in their prisons to build their weapons.

It is really weird to see people say the Empire was doing the right thing. It is really weird to see fans unironically say "death to the Jedi" when the Jedi were not ones who orchestrated the Clone War.

Star Wars has always been about resisting tyranny, not excusing it. And if you’re justifying fascism (even fictional), you’re missing the whole point of what Star Wars has been trying to teach us for nearly 50 years.

[vsnspring]

Daenerys's show ending is bad AND morally problematic

For a long time, I've been wanting to write this post. A lot of people here and on the non-kneeler subreddit are furious with Daenerys becoming evil, or at least the way it happened. For a while, I vacillated between being okay with Daenerys going evil but in a more understandable way (e.g. becoming Tywin Lannister with dragons, in other words a ruthless bastard but not a psycho like her father Aerys. or just being far less interested in avoiding collateral damage) and her not being evil at all. However, after a few developments, I have concluded that her being evil is unacceptable.

It is unacceptable not only because it's bad writing, but also morally problematic. A lot of people would agree with the former, I know, though many won't - but I'm sure far fewer would agree with the latter. Yet I want to make my case. I should note that this applies mainly to the show - I hope the books will be different and they most likely will be in many ways, although I am dreading the possibility the endings, even if better written, might be similar for the main characters.

Why is Daenerys becoming evil bad writing, you ask - and also morally problematic? Here goes:

Daenerys becoming evil is poorly developed and OOC - there is no actual, gradual process in which she becomes evil. Contrast her with Anakin Skywalker in the Star Wars prequels, where he starts off being distraught at the idea of killing Count Dooku and others but is eventually able to slaughter younglings without remorse, strangles his love Padme (although doesn't really intend to kill her, but this is definitely him going dark), and tries to kill Obi-Wan - only failing due to circumstances, including Obi-Wan having ''the higher ground''. Even Anakin's reason for embracing the Sith ideology is something understandable like wanting to protect his loved ones. He is also manipulated by an outwardly positive mentor figure in Palpatine, instead of becoming evil because of ''genes'' or ''Targaryen blood'' or some stupid crap.

Yet no such thing really happens for Dany. While Daenerys has been brutal and vicious in the past, it has pretty much confined to people who can be said to have wronged her (Mirri Maz Duur, Mossador, Khal Moro, etc), people who were trying to kill her in battle (the Tarlys), or people who were complicit in a corrupt and evil system (the slavers she killed and perhaps the nobles as well). She punched up, not down. When it DID come to killing innocents, however, she did not want any part of it. In fact, she locked her dragons (who are supposed to be her CHILDREN) up to avoid them killing more people by mistake - even though Viserion and Rheagal didn't do it, Drogon (who flew away) did.

People often like to ignore the fact that Dany DID show remorse over killing Hizdahr's father the way she did, once she realized Hizdahr's father wasn't as evil (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFYPuJhyRKk, watch Dany's expressions closely and all throughout). Never mind the fact that killing the slavers in itself wouldn't be wrong back in Westeros, where Ned Stark himself tried to have Jorah executed for trying to sell poachers into slavery. Jorah himself admits Ned was right to want to punish him, and slavery is unquestionably despised by most people (for good reason) today.

Daenerys also repeatedly emphasized she would not shed innocent blood, at least as much as she has talked about burning cities to the ground. She wanted to liberate Astapor not because it would help her take the Iron Throne but because there were 1,000 slaves there according to Jorah, and thus 1,000 reasons for her to save the city. She did give many of the slavers - the villains - a chance to surrender peacefully - book AND show. They refused to do so, and tried to assassinate her as well as did kill Barristan Selmy. And that's without taking into account the innocent people the Sons of the Harpy killed, many of who were freed slaves IIRC (this happened in the books too).

It goes further. Dany is generally ruthless but with a cause, not without. Dany has nothing to gain from burning an already surrendered city to the ground. She won the war. No one was attacking or antagonizing her. Yet we're supposed to believe, as per D&D, she will raze it anyway because ''she is a Targaryen at the end of the day'' and because the Red Keep reminds her of everything she lost? Burn the Red Keep then, not the city! Burning the city would give her nothing.

Daenerys, albeit with Tyrion's counsel, also tolerated Jon's rebelliousness for a long time and was even willing to let him mine dragonglass for use against the Night King (this was when she still didn't believe him). She even showed empathy for him learning his siblings were still alive. This was ALL before ''boatsex''. Then, Daenerys risked her life to go beyond the Wall and save Jon as well as everyone else, this time AGAINST Tyrion's counsel. She saved their lives risking her own.

There is NO WAY Dany would burn an entire city of innocent people down, on purpose. There is NO WAY Dany would burn an entire city down when it has surrendered to her - and absolutely NO WAY she would not feel remorse about doing it in any situation. She has, for all her brutality, regularly shown compassion for women and children as well as the poor.

No character development really occurred to make Dany so capable of killing or hurting innocent people like this. Guilty people, yes - and she's shown remorse for doing so. Threatening to attack cities at war with her, yes - and she still backed down from this threat after hearing the truth from Tyrion. At no point did we ever see Daenerys actually weighing the lives of innocents versus the lives of the guilty and then determine, yes, the former need to be sacrificed to stop the latter. We never see her face this dilemma. We even see JON, who is poker-faced, weigh the idea of letting the Free Folk through the Wall in discussion with Aemon. There was no buildup to justify Dany's willingness to directly hurt innocents.

Even Walter White, who ''always did it for himself'', was shocked and horrified by his first relatively accidental killing in Breaking Bad. Of course, he then becomes more and more willing to kill. He had progression - Dany doesn't.

2) It's actually not that unpredictable - A LOT of people have commonly theorized that Daenerys might, or even would, break bad one day. The specifics for each theory is different, but they have been there. Some theorized she would eventually just crack due to bad things happening to her plus her Targaryen ancestry, others theorized she would get turned into the Night Queen by the NK, and still others theorized she would become evil but in a more controlled as well as understandable way (like before). Therefore, the whole Dany becoming bad isn't really subverting that many expectations - ever since we saw she had a ruthless streak, did do bad things at times, and we heard that infamous quote about Targaryen madness, we all thought it was at least possible she would become evil.

The better way to subvert expectations, IMO, would for her to NOT be evil. Or at least, let her actually see the darkness within her cause some serious problems and then realize the error of her ways plus atone for them. Again, good characters face emotional turmoil when thinking of making difficult decisions. Walter White did. Anakin did. Jon Snow of all people did, and this is the guy who knows nothing. You'd think Daenerys, ruler of multiple cities in Essos, would too.

But no, she does not. She feels remorse for doing bad things and eventually decides to not do bad things, but that's NOT development or foreshadowing her being a villain. There's no real sustained conflict inside her between good and evil, she just does good things and either does bad things too to bad people or is stopped from doing them in case they hurt good people too and never bothers about it again. A villain's journey should either start with her initially being gripped by remorse but eventually finding it easier and easier to do bad things, or just start with her already a bad egg that gets worse over time. Neither is true - she shows compassion and empathy in the beginning AS WELL as ruthlessness. She keeps showing this well into S8-E5, and never stops showcasing either side of her personality. She doesn't actually become a worse person over the seasons in any realistic way. There is absolutely zero development in that area.

3) The reasoning for Dany being evil was always kind of forced, even if present - ''Whenever a Targaryen is born, the 'gods' flip a coin''. - Really? We're supposed to accept this psuedo-intellectual nonsense? Lmao. It's actually morally problematic and very contrived writing to have someone be predisposed to genocidal evil (which is erroneously called ''madness'', something else entirely) because their ancestors were. Keep in mind we have the idea of an evil Targ (Aerys) persisting throughout the story and informing our opinions on what a good ruler should or should not be, and Dany becoming a villain just like her father (if not WORSE), because they share the same blood, is fucked up.

D&D outright say that Dany being a Targaryen influenced her to destroy the city. I call horse shit on that. So she became evil just because her father and some other people in her family were also evil? Lmao, that's not even realistic, and that's not too different from the problematic psuedo-science used to deem certain ''races'' as more violent than others IRL.

4) Two ''Mad Queens'' is a sexist plot - Yeah, this one cannot be ignored IMHO, and it's very possible this might happen in ASOIAF as well. I find it highly infuriating that GoT turned Cersei and Daenerys both into mad queens, although one can argue Cersei was already evil and kinda delusional even in the earlier seasons (and that too in a way that was organic as well as made sense for her character - she was always a genuine snob and never cared about the people, and always despised Tyrion as well as was bigoted). The question is, why would you need another mad queen?

Some people, I swear, have actually interpreted Dany's fall as proof that women cannot make good rulers or that GRRM was trying to say modern feminism is bad or something of the sort (ironically, GRRM is what a lot of people today would call a ''liberal''). Never mind the fact that Dany's rule isn't ''woman dominated'', most of her advisors are men and so are her soldiers. Ditto for Cersei, who actually hates other women.

The ending D&D, and maybe GRRM, have to offer us? Regardless of their own leanings towards women and their own intentions for the ending, it is as clear as day that said ending has left sexists and incels feeling reassured about the ''inferiority'' of women and other bullcrap. I mean, pending GRRM's treatment of Sansa and the Dornish women in the finale (which isn't very promising, I think - not with the completely random boy Martell that was there to name Bran king), it seems like turning the one woman who actually was a badass ''good'' queen into a villain would suck even in the books.

It wouldn't just be bad writing. It would be sexist, especially when you remember the only other female ruler of note on the show is Sansa, who is pretty shitty and all but useless (and even the few good moments she has, are not set up properly - e.g. taking down Littlefinger) or worse. After all, Sansa did conspire against Dany and by doing so betrayed Jon as well as simply wasn't a very good or effective leader. GRRM can admittedly avoid this scenario if he ends up having the Stark girl be actually wise, useful, and morally good - none of which she arguably was on the show - and perhaps lets Arianne rule Dorne and stay uncorrupted (unlike Show!Ellaria, another character D&D butchered) morally.

5) Why not turn someone else evil? - If you need to turn someone else into a villain, why not let Sansa become evil instead of Daenerys? An evil or evil-ish Stark would greatly help balance out the few relatively decent Lannisters, such as Kevan and Genna. Let her be Cersei 2.0 but with the intelligence of Littlefinger. Unlike Dany, Sansa AS A PERSON actually has more of a foundation to be bad in that she was selfish and superficial and didn't defend her little sister Arya from the Lannisters' accusations (plus eventually sold Ned out, although she admittedly didn't know what she was doing). This makes even more sense on the show - her behavior and demeanor from S6 onward is incredibly negative even towards her allies or good characters, and she was an absolute asshole to Daenerys in S8 plus conspired against her against Jon's wishes.

Dany, in contrast, was just a defenseless and abused girl in the beginning who slowly but surely learns to fight back against her abusive shithead of a brother and still mourns him somewhat even after everything, as well as works to stop Drogo's men from raping women the best she can. Alternatively, letting Arya become evil and lose herself to vengeance would make for a very tragic tale of lost innocence and the corruption of child soldiers. Instead we get some badass assassin who never seems to struggle with killing either and who is never held accountable for turning Freys into pies among other things. This way you can have another badass female villain who is actually dangerous but also has a much more realistic origin. It never made sense to me that there are evil Targaryens and Lannisters as well as good or good-ish ones for both houses, yet there are only ever good Starks. Like even if Sansa or Arya was only temporarily corrupted and eventually redeemed themselves, it would work.

It would be more realistic, anyway.

6) The moral hypocrisy of the story - Daenerys is not the only person who's done reprehensible things to bad people in-story. Tyrion may talk about how bad people die wherever she goes, but she's not the only one. Arya literally baked two guys into a pie and fed it to their father. As evil as they all were and though I agree with her killing them in general, that was exceptionally sadistic and cruel. There was zero need for it. Sansa, meanwhile, fed Ramsay to his own dogs and smiled as he was torn apart. Again, Ramsay deserved it but that too was unnecessary - just execute him, normally. Jon hung a 13-year old boy who in all honesty could've just been locked up in an ice cell or punished in some other way, something he himself feels disgusted in, as well as kills an old dude for insubordination (granted, this old dude was an evil asshole, but it is unknown on the show if Jon knew of the crimes he committed). Tyrion killed his own father when the latter was no direct harm to him and when he could have easily escaped without doing so, and openly mocked as well as insulted Joffrey and his death to Cersei (Joffrey's MOTHER and his own SISTER) as well as Daenerys, a stranger.

It's also hilarious that people, including D&D, shit on Dany's reaction to Viserys's abuse. This in spite of the numerous years of abuse Dany faced at his hands (which may have been somewhat sexual in nature at times), in spite of Viserys attacking her multiple times WITHIN THE SHOW ITSELF, and even threatening to kill her AND HER BABY directly in front of Khal Drogo. Even then, all she really does is watch him die a fully deserved death at Drogo's hands, she takes no pleasure in it and it's worth noting SHE actually tries to talk him down first but he doesn't listen. As for Drogo, it's clear he would not let that silver-haired prat live after insulting and threatening his wife. I don't think even Daenerys could have stopped him at that point. The dude was worse than JOFFREY, and that's saying something.

7) It's morally problematic to equate a woman who frees slaves, fights to protect women and children, and has people of color on her side...with HITLER. e lmao. Hitler was the most racist dude ever, and as many people including GRRM agree, was literally the embodiment of evil in our world. He wanted to destroy so many racial groups because he saw them as ''inferior'' and before then, stripped them of many of their rights. He hated people of color, which is why Jesse Owens doing well in the Olympics was such a big deal. Owens destroyed Hitler's myth of Aryan racial supremacy. It's very, very on the nose that D&D and Cogman intended for Dany to be like Hitler in the final scene where she's rallying and speaking to her troops. It's literally compared to a similar moment in ''Triumph of the Will''.

Daenerys, on the other hand? She was a refugee when we first saw her - arguably with more in common with those that fled Hitler's repression, if anything. She was essentially sold as a sex slave to Khal Drogo, and raped on their wedding night. Even when Drogo is alive, however, Dany attempts to protect innocent women the best she can from rapes. Once she comes into her own, she makes a point of liberating slaves NOT because she benefits from doing so but because it's the right thing to do. She wanted to liberate Astapor (IIRC) even though Jorah told her it wouldn't bring her closer to the Iron Throne NOT because she benefited from the slaves as she did from the Unsullied, but because there were 1,000 people or so who needed help. She spends multiple seasons trying to root slavery out and eventually succeeds.

Is THIS the kind of person you want to compare to Hitler? Lmao, she arguably has more in common with Harriet Tubman if anything. There's also the fact that the people following her, Dothraki and Unsullied, are people of color. They aren't white like the Westerosi usually are - they are brown and black and Asian. Two of those communities, at least, were seen as ''inferior'' by Adolf Hitler and the Nazi regime, and Hitler actively oppressed black people during his regime (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-48273570). The Nazis were notable because of their whole ''Aryan whites are superior'' jazz. They hated Jews, black people, and pretty much anyone who didn't look like them (maybe except the Japanese, to some extent). The Nazis WERE brutal slavers themselves, exactly like the people Daenerys sought to defeat (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_labour_under_German_rule_during_World_War_II). Why the fuck are you comparing fucking racist slavers to a refugee who sides with people of color and frees slaves?

8) Compromise is a thing - At the end of the day, Daenerys is a living contradiction. She is the mother of dragons. She is compassionate but brutal; loving but hateful; forgiving but brutal; peace-loving but violent; open-minded but stubborn. She is heralded for her successes and ostracized for her cruelty. She is loved and feared. She is arguably the single-most character that represents the divide between good and evil, even more so than Tyrion who is either a flat out hero (on the show) or a rapist (in the books). To turn Dany into a flat out villain kind of undermines the fact she has consistently displayed a good side and a worse one, not just one or the other. That would be bad writing and inconsistent, as well as morally problematic for the sexism/sins of the father factors. However, I can also appreciate that her brutal impulses (which are hard to justify in a number of cases) also cannot just be whitewashed or waved off as nothing. That too would be bad writing.

That too would be morally problematic, as well as bad writing and inconsistent as well. So what do we do? We look for a compromise.

Daenerys arguably comes from the name ''denarius'', which was a kind of ancient coin. A coin, as we all know, traditionally falls heads or tails. However, and although this is exceedingly rare, a coin sometimes falls on its side. In other words, Daenerys doesn't have to be a full villain OR a full hero - she can be a good person who has a dark side she needs to overcome. One great way to achieve a compromise between the show's ending and Dany's earlier ''mostly good'' persona is to have her attack King's Landing BEFORE the war with the White Walkers (perfectly achievable in S7, I must add) and angrily but accidentally raze the city during a WAR by igniting a gigantic wildfire cache underneath. Alternatively, she should've faced a situation where she felt forced to rain fire directly upon civilian areas - an extreme example being Euron highjacks a dragon using his dragonbinder horn (Viserion, maybe?) and turns it against Dany in a Dance of Dragons, where she causes a LOT of collateral damage trying to kill Euron.

Either way, the story could end in that arc with a razed King's Landing, and Daenerys would feel horrified and guilty for what she did, realize her journey for the throne ended up killing innocents and causing needless destruction. She would be directly implicated in the sense that even if there was wildfire underneath the ground (which she would know of anyway through Tyrion), her rage at seeing her dragons injured or hijacked got the better of her and caused her to kill many people. This way she would be guilty while not being the demonic monster we got at the end of the S8. Dany would then seek redemption by fighting the White Walkers alongside Jon and the rest of the kingdoms. She would then redeem herself either killing the Night King and sacrificing herself or live to tell the tale but return to Essos and continue ruling there.

So, what do you think?

the original:

[antianakin]

Antianakin's Second Anti-Anakin/Pro-Jedi Fic Rec List

Same general idea as the first one, this rec list is dedicated to fics that are critical of Anakin Skywalker. That can mean anything from just emphasizing that the Jedi's philosophies are right even if it means Anakin is wrong, to killing Anakin off in the most gruesome (and probably cathartic) way possible as a consequence for his choices. Since I know there are differing levels of feelings towards Anakin in the people that follow me, I'm going to add in some new helpful terms and redefine the categories slightly. Please note that these are MY personal interpretations of the fics, not the authors' stated intentions.

Helpful terms:

Unfinished - Any fic that is marked as incomplete, or a series where the fic(s) in it are still incomplete and cannot stand alone.

Ongoing - Any series marked as incomplete, but the fics in it are marked as complete or can stand alone as they are.

Critical - The fic critiques Anakin's philosophies and choices, but allows for more sympathy towards his character and situation should the reader desire it.

Anti - The fic specifically presents Anakin in a very negative way without any sympathy for him or his choices.

Anakin/Consequences: Anakin experiences consequences for his actions, but does not die. These fics can be anywhere between "critical" to fully "anti" depending on the author's take.

Spoiler Alert, He Doesn't Make It: Anakin experiences the specific consequence of dying. These fics will likely all fall under the definition of "anti" as opposed to just "critical."

The Galaxy Deserved Better: Focus of the story is more on characters' reactions to Anakin's choices or using other characters and their relationships to critique Anakin's choices in canon. None of these fics will be "anti" Anakin probably, since the critique of Anakin is at best a catalyst for the rest of the story.

I've had people ask me how to FIND more anti-Anakin fics, so here's my tips:

Look at your favorite authors' bookmarks. If you like something someone wrote, chances are they like reading the same stuff you do.

There's always the option of looking into tags, but I've found that very few people actually use "anti" tags on fanfiction, so your best bet is to look into pro Jedi/Jedi appreciation tags as much as possible, and the ones that are truly pro Jedi are often also critical of Anakin simply by design (if he shows up at all).

A lot of these fics take things like the Tusken massacre, Order 66, and Anakin's treatment of Padme, Ahsoka, Obi-Wan, and the clones very seriously. Please take that as a warning if any of those things might be triggering, and keep an eye on the tags for all of the fics included here just in case.

There is no specific order to this. I tried to group fics from one specific author together, but other than that, I didn't place anything in any specific position for a reason.

This is not an exhaustive list of good anti-Anakin fics that exist, obviously. If your fic or your favorite fic isn't on this list, please feel free to rec it yourself in the notes, leave a reply or reblog with a link. I'm happy to read more anti-Anakin fic, especially if it's very Pro-Jedi!

One final reminder: NOTHING IN THIS LIST IS ANAKIN FRIENDLY! That means it's likely not going to be friendly to Anakin specific ships either, particularly Obikin and Anidala. If that's going to bother you to read, please just skip this entire list, it's not for you.

Anakin/Consequences

Blood-born Memories by Siderea (anti, 725):

Quinlan touches Obi-Wan's robe after his "assassination" by Rako Hardeen and ends up picking up some memories and emotions from Anakin that give him some heart-breaking revelations about Anakin's true nature.

Technically this one ends just before any real consequences and so the consequences are more implied, but I love the way Quinlan reacts to the revelations he has in this fic. Quinlan is so obviously horrified by it and heartbroken on Obi-Wan's behalf, but also strong enough as a Jedi to know what he needs to do now. He's already grieving his friend, but he has to set all of that aside to deal with this now more important issue. This fic is supremely unlikely to ever get any follow-up, but thinking about how Obi-Wan would deal with this development upon coming back from his stint undercover is delightfully angsty.

Malfunctions & Mutiny by BitterChocolateStars (anti, 6k):

Obi-Wan loses on Mustafar, but Anakin takes him prisoner and proceeds to kill Palpatine and make Padme Empress. He puts Cody in charge of guarding Obi-Wan, and one day Cody's chip breaks when Anakin tortures Obi-Wan. Cody starts working on an escape plan for everyone, Jedi and clone alike.

The nice thing about fics post Order 66 from clone perspectives is that Anakin tends to be represented as an unforgivable monster and little else. Cody's priority is saving everybody he can and getting them as far away as possible, so he's not interested in trying to understand or sympathize with Anakin when it doesn't serve his purposes. One of the things I really like in this fic is the way we see Rex and Ahsoka react to the revelation of Anakin's betrayal. Ahsoka takes it a lot better than she does in canon, but we get a nice sort-of outsider perspective of Rex struggling with believing it until he doesn't have any other choice and the way this impacts his relationship with Cody.

The Temple vs Order 66 by LauraBWrites (anti, 4k):

The Temple has become semi-sentient over the years and starts preparing to protect the Jedi in the eventuality that Anakin Skywalker fails.

The Temple itself being a character is really fun, and I quite loved the way it was almost arguing with the Force about Anakin and how to handle the growing darkness in him and the galaxy. I also really appreciated that, while Padme ultimately leaves Anakin behind, her selfish choices during the war aren't swept under the rug, either. I liked that it insists that Anakin is taken care of and not just left to rot, but that whether he gets better or not remains up to him. It doesn't matter how much therapy he's given by the Jedi, he has to choose to accept the help or it won't work.

For want of a horse, the rider was lost by LacieFuyu (critical, 19k):

Anakin doesn't get left in the dark about the Rako Hardeen mission and it goes disastrously as a result. Everyone has to live with the consequences of that choice.

This one takes place within the Rako Hardeen arc, but it does deal with the revelation of the Tusken Massacre and the Anidala marriage as well. There are a lot of truths being thrown at Anakin in this particular fic by the people around him who start to discover more of what he's done and who he truly is, most of whom choose not to sugarcoat anything for him. Several of the characters choose not to forgive Anakin for what he's done, even as some of them continue to work to help him figure out how to heal and get better. There is hope left for him at the end, but the consequences for him in this feel very real and substantial, it goes far beyond Anakin just having to live with what he's done. He loses a lot of the people he cared about, he loses certain privileges and ranks, and they leave open the possibility that he might have to face a pretty serious consequence for the Tusken Massacre from the Tuskens themselves. So while it's sympathetic, it takes Anakin's choices seriously, which I appreciate. I also liked seeing some of the ways other characters were dealing with their own pain and betrayal, the ways they were taking comfort from Jedi teachings and loved ones to heal in a more healthy way.

Spoiler Alert, He Doesn't Make It

here on the edge of silence, half afraid by Siderea (anti, 4k):

Pirate/Mer AU where Fox and the Guard work on Palpatine and Anakin's ship and Fox manages to kill Palpatine, causing Anakin to throw him overboard only for Mer!Obi-Wan to save him.

I like the development of Fox and Obi-Wan's relationship in this one, from some very understandable mistrust to attraction and the beginnings of a friendship. The glimpses we get into a wider world and a rebellion of sorts and how Obi-Wan being a merman fits into the Jedi still existing and fighting alongside the clones under Palpatine are SO tantalizing. Fox's opinion of Anakin is immensely low and Obi-Wan himself is far enough along from whatever betrayal Anakin committed in this AU that he is able to criticize Anakin's behavior and obsessions with people. Anakin never actually appears in this fic, he remains a far-away obstacle to be removed, and I love that for him.

The Galaxy Deserved Better:

Ahsoka is Mace's Padawan series by SkyeBean (ongoing, anti, 442k):

The title of the series speaks for itself for the most part, but this is an AU where Mace chooses Ahsoka to be his Padawan around a year prior to AOTC and it follows the various consequences of that change both to Ahsoka herself and to the galaxy at large. The first fic goes all the way through the end of the Clone Wars, but other fics in the series continue beyond that to at least the end of ROTJ and explore the impact of the Empire on the Jedi as they struggle to survive.

I made an entire separate post strictly about this series because it basically changed my brain chemistry for the week it took me to get through everything, and I know several other people have recc'd it in various lists, but I'm putting it here again for anyone who hasn't yet seen it because it's just that good and that worth it. This fic understands how to make Ahsoka develop and mature without making her some angel or goddess of light without flaws. It is BREATHTAKINGLY pro Jedi and especially pro Mace Windu. There's some really great exploration of Ahsoka's relationship to the clones both before and after Order 66 as well a lot of delightful diversity in her relationships to other Jedi. This fic does not pull punches with regards to Anakin, Padme, and Anidala, or the consequences of their choices. If you were disappointed in how the Ahsoka show treated her reaction to Anakin and his atrocities, this fic is the OPPOSITE of that.

After the War (Part the First) by KChan88 (critical, 7k):

Instead of Obi-Wan, Mace and Yoda choose Quinlan to be the one who goes undercover during the Rako Hardeen arc. Obi-Wan, who has been in an off and on relationship with Quinlan since they were teenagers, reacts to the loss.

This is actually incredibly positive towards Anakin, but I'm leaving it in here as "critical" because pretty much any fic that has someone else reacting to the Rako Hardeen act is sort-of critical of Anakin's canon behavior by design, and the underlying issues that ultimately lead him to darkness. Obi-Wan reacts like a Jedi should, letting go when he believes Quinlan to be dead, and understanding when he has to face Quinlan after he knows it was a lie even as he is still angry at the circumstances putting Quinlan in that position in the first place (not the JEDI, just the war and the way it's forcing the Jedi to run themselves ragged and put themselves through the wringer). That anger gets acknowledged and accepted and Obi-Wan and Quinlan are shown to have an incredibly healthy relationship with each other that's incredibly sweet.

After the War (Part the Second) by KChan88 (critical, 6k):

Quinlan manages to catch up to Obi-Wan during his confrontation with Anakin during the Obi-Wan Kenobi show and the two have a reunion after things settle down on Tatooine.

Part of the same series as the above, this one lands more sympathetic towards Anakin than positive, since it's set post Order 66 and, for obvious reasons, it's pretty hard to be positive about what Anakin's done and what he's chosen to be at this point. But it's not unsympathetic, both Obi-Wan and Quinlan remember good times with Anakin, Obi-Wan has a line about having felt some kind of light in him during that last conversation they have in the show, and Quinlan makes comparisons to Anakin sounding like a scared and lonely little boy. So the critical aspect of it is relatively soft and minimal aside from the obvious references to his betrayal. Much like the fic above, I really love the way Obi-Wan and Quinlan's relationship is represented and the dynamic they have with each other.

Meet in the Middle by BilbosMom (critical, 9k):

Baby Luke and Leia are working on some Force shenanigans to try to find a way to speak to each other through a middle ground within the Force, but have trouble getting to each other on their own and end up recruiting Rex and Obi-Wan to help them.

This one is also pretty positive about Anakin in that it talks a lot about how Luke and Leia are going to save him by reminding him of how to love and things like that. I'm leaving it in here because it is also set post Order 66 and does reckon with the impact of that, especially on Rex who is finding out this betrayal for the first time, so it's hard not to end up at least a little critical just naturally. Anakin has done some particularly heinous shit and is still DOING some heinous shit. That remains true whether he can be saved in the future or not, whether he used to know how to love selflessly or not. I particularly like the structure in this one, the way it bounces back and forth between Obi-Wan's perspective with Leia and Rex's perspective with Luke. I like the way that Luke and Leia land sort-of wiser than their years due to their stronger connection to the Force but also still very much children who get impatient and annoyed with the adults around them.

scraps series by grumpyhedgehogs (critical, 9.5k):

Cody's chip fails when Obi-Wan dies on the Death Star and he goes searching for Rex and the Rebellion. He deals with his grief and guilt along the way.

Cody isn't Anakin's biggest fan, obviously, but both he and Rex acknowledge that Anakin USED to be a better person. The focus of the story is on Cody's relationship with Obi-Wan and how, even after he's died, that relationship still helps Cody move forward from his grief and find some measure of peace. I like the way Cody, Rex, and Ahsoka all connect over the different ways Obi-Wan had meant something to them and the ways he impacted their lives.

may you inherit his light by notbecauseofvictories (critical, 2.5k):

Leia reflects on her relationship to Bail Organa and the impact of his loss in the years after ROTJ.

Leia is also not Anakin Skywalker's biggest fan and dislikes that she inherited anything from him. I appreciated that Leia never forgave him in this. Even in the moment where she claims to wish he showed up, it's so she can rage at him for being the reason she ISN'T Bail Organa's daughter instead. It's a heart-wrenching story and dive into Leia's character, the ways her life at constant war have defined her as well as her experience as an adopted child who wanted nothing more than to have something physical to connect her to the family she loved and to make them proud. Mon Mothma saying Leia reminded her of Bail about made me cry.

Thank the Gods, I'm Not Alone by BitterChocolateStars (critical, 16k):

Obi-Wan and Rex from ten years post Order 66 both get sent back in time to the Clone Wars and work together to make sure it doesn't happen a second time.

Since Obi-Wan and Rex are primarily dealing with an Anakin who HASN'T betrayed the Jedi and the clones yet (depending on whether you count his marriage to Padme and his murder of the Tuskens a betrayal of the Jedi or not), they both have to figure out how to forgive this version of him that hasn't committed the crime they're angry about yet. He's the same person who DID go down that path before, but circumstances change enough to make different choices this time around. I appreciated the acknowledgment that it's okay to choose not to forgive the version of Anakin that DID make those choices, even as they recognize that it's not fair to hold this version of Anakin accountable for things he didn't do.

Gentle Welcome by Miandraden1 (critical, 1k):

Short and soft post-Rako Hardeen one shot where Obi-Wan reflects on Anakin's reaction to his stint undercover but gains comfort from the people who understand.

I love Obi-Wan discussing his worries about Anakin with Mace, it's such a nice call back to AOTC where he was more explicitly pushing back against the Council's decisions and had less faith in Anakin, whereas here he's so clearly trying to continue to have faith in Anakin's ability to grow and learn, even as he can tell Anakin's struggling. There's no lack of acknowledgment of Anakin's continued struggles, but there is a choice to continue to believe in him. I love how sweet the clones are in how they react to the Rako Hardeen deception, in some ways this is just another Tuesday for them, but Waxer explicitly leaving Obi-Wan a little gift he knows he'll like says something slightly different and it's adorable.

The Temple of Hope series by Zarz (ongoing, critical, 93k):

Obi-Wan, Anakin, and their battalions stumble across a very old Jedi Temple that reveals certain truths about both the Jedi and the clones and changes everything.

This one is also mostly about just forcing Anakin to face his own truths and fears while everybody else gets to make their way to a happy fix-it AU as a result. One of the tags on the first fic is "anakin skywalker faces consequences" but the primary consequence is just Anakin feeling bad about what he's done more than anything else. It's overall a sweet, soft, Force-sensitive Clones!AU with a lot of pro Jedi vibes to it.

"... if you remain his student" by Peppermint_Shamrock (critical, 4k):

The Wrong Jedi arc doesn't happen which leaves Ahsoka at the Temple during Order 66 and she was never going to be enough to save or stop Anakin.

To be perfectly honest at this point, this is the ending I'd have wanted for Ahsoka. It wouldn't have been able to happen in canon given she's not in ROTS, but like... this is probably one of the most impactful ways for her story to have ended (and one of the kindest, given how shitty her character has become). I love the way this fic insists that Ahsoka isn't enough, any more than Padme or Obi-Wan were, he'd have cut her down the same he did the others, no matter what he might have felt for her once or what she believed he felt for her.

Reversi by LacieFuyu (critical, 2.5k):

Anakin and Obi-Wan's roles are reversed in the Rako Hardeen arc and Anakin is startled by everyone's reactions to his deception.

This is yet another one that is critical by comparison to canon. Even Anakin himself acknowledges by the end of the fic that he's pretty sure he wouldn't be reacting this compassionately and calmly and reasonably if their positions were reversed, something we know to be true. There's also a small moment where Anakin begins to doubt his choices regarding the Tusken Massacre, but instead of actually reflecting on it, he buries the feeling all over again and chooses to learn nothing. It's very in character for Anakin.

[saphronethaleph]

Task Failed Successfully

Senator Amidala closed the door to the Naboo senatorial office, and smiled.

“All right,” she said. “Knight Kenobi, Padawan Skywalker. I’m glad the two of you were available.”

“We are, of course, at the disposal of the Senate,” Obi-Wan said.

“And I can guess what the problem is,” Anakin added. “Can’t you, Master?”

“Of course, my young padawan,” Obi-Wan replied. “But what about if the Senator explains?”

“To put it simply, then,” the Senator said. “The Supreme Chancellor would like to know what in the galaxy the Kaminoans are talking about.”

Anakin blinked.

“You don’t know?” he asked. “He doesn’t know?”

“The Senate has some idea of some details, but at this point some or all of them could be incorrect,” Padme replied. “And the Chancellor wanted me to try and understand the specifics.”

“That… could be a problem,” Obi-Wan admitted. “Because the Council doesn’t have much idea either.”

“We were speaking with them for over an hour,” Anakin contributed. “Master is one of the better diplomats in the Jedi Order… we were actually told to try and find out who in the Senate might know what’s going on.”

Padme frowned, slightly. “You mean you were trying to find out if someone in the Senate had done this?” she asked. “But the army was ordered for the Jedi.”

“So we’ve been told,” Obi-Wan replied. “Obviously, it’s only been a few hours, but we haven’t been able to come to any conclusions – and, to put it bluntly, Senator, it could be that this army was ordered with the blame being placed on the Jedi in order to confuse the issue.”

Padme considered that.

“Possible, but I don’t think it’s likely,” she said. “Whoever ordered this army clearly had a reason behind what they were doing, we just don’t know what it is.”

“Which means we’re just going around in circles,” Anakin concluded.

“Perhaps, but simply hearing it from Padme has been useful,” Obi-Wan said. “I hope you’ll keep us informed if you learn anything?”

“Of course,” Padme smiled. “The two of you helped save my planet, Obi-Wan, Ani. You’re friends.”

“The Jedi Order teaches us to avoid attachment,” Anakin said, then grinned slightly. “But friends don’t count, right?”

“If friends did count, then I don’t think most of the Order would be very happy,” Obi-Wan replied.

“Yeah, true,” Anakin agreed. “I think Yoda still sends holocalls to his last padawan.”

“Is there something unusual about that?” Padme asked.

“It’s… more of Order business than anything,” Obi-Wan said. “My padawan really shouldn’t have passed on gossip like that. It’s not going to do him any good when it comes to whether he’ll be knighted.”

“Master,” Anakin complained. “You said I had nothing to worry about!”

“And you seem determined to prove me wrong,” Obi-Wan replied. “Perhaps you can prove me wrong about proving me wrong about that.”

Anakin’s lips moved.

“...okay?” he tried. “I’ll do my best, Master.”

“In that case, Anakin, I will have nothing to worry about,” Obi-Wan replied.

Padme smiled.

“So what are you going to do with the army, anyway?” she asked.

“That’s a very good question, but you should probably ask one of the members of the Council,” Obi-Wan replied.

“Master, everyone knows you’re going to be on the Council some time soon,” Anakin said.

“And I’m not one yet, and everyone doesn’t include me,” Obi-Wan pointed out. “But… really, that does depend on who and why there would be an order of over a million clones to fight for the Jedi. The only possibility I can think of is the Sith, but… why would the Sith order an army for the Jedi?”

“If it’s a Sith plot, do you have any chance of unravelling it?” Padme asked, worried. “You stopped whatever they were trying to do with Naboo.”

“Did we?” Obi-Wan asked.

“No, I mean you, specifically,” Padme replied. “And you, Anakin. The Droid Control Ship was key to whatever it was they were doing, and Obi-Wan killed a Sith.”

“And there’s been no sign of the other in a decade,” Obi-Wan said, thinking back to the Naboo crisis. “Though… now I come to think about that particular series of events, Senator, I do have to ask whether a specific member of the Senate was involved.”

“With the Sith?” Padme asked.

“There’s got to have been some Senators working with the Sith, back then,” Anakin pointed out.

“Perhaps, but that’s not what I mean,” Obi-Wan explained. “I mean the clone army. Because if there is anyone who could accidentally order an army, it is the junior Senator from Naboo.”

He turned, to direct something that was not quite a glare at Senator Binks. “Isn’t that right, Jar Jar?”

“Mesa not as bad as all dat,” Jar Jar protested. “Mesa been doing quite well for mesa self in the last ten years. Mesa has been takin’ classes on avoidin’ disaster and not bein’ clumsy.”

“Perhaps you have,” Obi-Wan said, relenting slightly. “But you must admit, Jar Jar, that certain events have given you a reputation it will take many years to live down yet.”

Jar Jar sighed.

“Mesa knows dat,” he admitted. “Theres-a all kinds of jokes about mesa. It seems like even when mesa floatin’ legislation, people makin’ jokes about waterfalls.”

Obi-Wan nodded, closing his eyes for a moment.

“I apologize, Jar Jar,” he said. “It’s easy for me to forget that you have to deal with that reputation all the time.”

“Yeah,” Jar Jar said.

“Speaking of which,” Anakin began. “Did anyone ever figure out how that happened? If they did, I missed it.”

“Mesa has said it over and over again,” Jar Jar protested. “Mesa was simply showin’ the bombad Chancellor-Elect the really pretty bits of Theed that mesa wasn’t sure that he’sa seen before, and mesa was wavin’ mesa hands around, and mesa… made a boopjak, big mistake.”

“The Chancellor-Elect fell three hundred and eighty metres,” Obi-Wan said. “Then he hit the ground, and exploded. It put something of a damper on the celebrations.”

“Jar Jar does know this,” Padme pointed out. “And he’s heard it over and over. He’s done his very best to put it behind him, and is as valued an ally of Chancellor Stonk as I am.”

“Hesa was a big supporter of rebuildin’ Naboo!” Jar Jar said, brightening as he rebounded in the way only he could. “Stonks even gone to the moon!”

“I heard about the colonization project of Ohma-D’un,” Anakin said, interested. “Do you think the terraforming equipment could be used to help make a planet less dry and sandy?”

He frowned. “Actually, Master… could we use the army for that? The only reason the Republic won’t do anything about Outer Rim slavery is that it would mean building an army, right?”

Padme looked interested, but frowned.

“We’d probably need to find where it came from, first,” she said. “But… I’ll definitely suggest it, Ani.”

She smiled. “Assuming the Senate gets any say in what to do with the army, of course.”

[threebea]

Sheev hits the cloning Sith magic hoping for eternal life in exactly the wrong way and time and now he's a small redheaded child.

1. Everyone thinks the Supreme Chancellor is missing or captured.

2. Everyone assumes he's the bastard child of Obi-Wan Kenobi (as all redheads of a certain age are traditionally assumed).

3. Obi-Wan is once again asking people not to assume he is the sole provider of redheads. (He is ignored).

4. Due to plot reasons naturally Obi-Wan and Anakin have to look after him.

5. Sheev tries to act cute so that he can win over Anakin.

6. Somehow it backfires and Anakin is weirdly threatened by Obi-Wan's (probable) son.

7. Sheev does have a few tantrums and falls into brat mode. Not because he's a Sith in disguise but because he was a rich boy and assumes that's how kids are.

8. He claims to be the Supreme Chancellor several times. Padme thinks it's adorable that he wants to be a little politician.

9. the Jedi figure out he's force sensitive and are wondering if they should take him in if they can't find his guardian. Anakin now views him as a rival and is waiting for Obi-Wan to say he's going to train his son the boy.

10. Obi-Wan is not doing that again, thanks. He just finished the last one. He needs a break.

11. Sheev due to child body can't control the Force as well as he can as an adult (as far as he knows) so trapped playing baby games and getting hugs and also getting rules which did not happen the first time around. Weirdly nice but it isn't going to stop him from being Emperor and murdering these people. He just needs to reverse the spell.

12: as it turns out his spirit accidentally went into one of his prototype clones and they find his dead elderly body. Looks like it's time for elections.

13: Jedi decide no, this time they're not breaking the he's too old rule. They're gonna look after him and when he's old enough they'll send him to one of the corps. It's for the best. Especially since the war is going really well under the new management and they'll probably have a treaty by next life day.

14. Also as it turns out the clone body does not have a high m-count like his former body. He's a little less than average. The Force is whistling innocently in the background.

Of course he's still going to try for galactic domination but oh boy is it not gonna go well.

Not sure if he becomes reformed or what. Either way he's probably gonna be farming for a few years which he will not enjoy. Yes he can still manipulate people, but it's hard to manipulate who he needs without any money or power to offer.

Tries setting off Order 66. Voice isn't the right register and doesn't set it off.

[hannah-snow]

What is your favorite fictional redemption arc

Note here that I am describing my favourite fictional redemption arc, not necessarily the best - although of course, I think my favourites probably are the best ones.

I would say Darth Vader. I was old enough to appreciate the story when I got into it, I think.

It's a good redemption arc because Return of the Jedi is such a beautiful movie. I've thought it is the best of Star Wars for a long time: deeper than ANH, more satisfying than ESB. It really sells the longing for redemption: from Luke, wanting his father and his family back, and believing that he is truly there; from Vader, believing himself beyond saving and clearly mourning that fact, and longing for his son but feeling too trapped by the Dark Side to help him. The longing is so palpable, which is what makes the reconciliation so delicious.

And it's also a good redemption arc because it doesn't sugar-coat or gloss over the terrible person Vader is, or what he's done. One gets the sense that Vader fully admits his guilt, regrets it, and turns away from evil for love - not 'love' in the sense of 'I want to kiss the pretty girl', but in the sense of 'I will do right by this boy even though I won't benefit from it, because I love my son so much'. Justice, love and penitence go together as they should. It's just so, so beautiful. We're Christians. We love a repentant sinner.

Also of note is the moment that Luke stops attacking Vader: when he realises that he could become just like him. It's Luke's admission of his own fallibility and fallenness that actually makes him a Jedi (which is why TLJ made no sense. But I digress).

The Prequels deepen this. They show us that once, Anakin Skywalker was a genuinely good person. He loved his mother. He wanted to help people. That was all he wanted, really - and it showed how that love got beaten out of him by the legalistic atmosphere of the Jedi, and the Sith just picked off what was left of him. It shows how good he was, so that you can mourn the loss of that person. You mourn his evil actions for his sake and everyone else's sake.

And that brings a whole new level to his redemption, one that we as Christians can appreciate. I think one of the reasons that Anakin fell to the Dark Side was because the pressure placed on him to be the Chosen One and A Good Jedi meant that he had trouble admitting his own failures and problems, much less seek help for them. I think he had trouble trusting Obi-Wan - not with his life, but with his vulnerabilites. Understandable, since Obi-Wan was a lot more critical than he needed to be, and when Anakin brought up his premonitions of his mother's death, Obi-Wan just brushed them off. But in Return of the Jedi, there's no trying to look good, no valuing of appearances and status over admitting what's really wrong. Vader gets to admit his sins in a sincere, penitent way, because he is no longer in a legalistic environment with the Old Order Jedi, but in a loving one with Luke. His story is suspiciously like that of the child raised in Christianity, but who only internalises The Rules, and never meets the Lord - until he does, and oh, how different the living Lord is from dead rules! It becomes of story not only of penitence and reconciliation of father and son, but a story of one who was once with God, went far from him because of shepherds who oppress the flock, and has now returned.

And then there's the way that Anakin's fall and redemption are inversions of each other. Anakin fell to the Dark Side for love; then found out that the Dark Side didn't want Padme alive and didn't want to let him love. Anakin's love, twisted by the Dark Side, destroyed Padme - so it is very fitting that he was redeemed by his love for their child. Padme, and love, got the last laugh in the end.

(Disregard that steaming dogpile of a Sequel Trilogy).

[jewishpadmenaberrie]

🔥(anything Padmé)

ok this is hard because on one hand most of my padmè takes are unpopular with general fandom on account of i take her seriously and shes a woman so everyone either hates her or puppets around an oc with her clothes on, and on the other hand all of my truly hot takes have been put way better by my mutuals and mutuals in law who are obsessed with her, so whats to say? that i dont think she was fridged any more than juliette? that i dont think shes completely unhinged for caring about anakin and in fact that she was proven right in the end by luke and by anakin himself?

OH WAIT I HAVE ONE!! i dont think her goals while raising the twins in an "all that mess never happened au" would be to continue a career in politics at all. i dont think she'd be able to stop herself from working herself sick on everything from charity benefits to the space pta but i also don't think she'd be able to throw her full self into both a political job and the ideal family life she wants. i dont think she'd want to half ass her job and i dont think she would want her children to be public figures or to have to work long hours at the expense of time she could be spending with family. ultimately her ideal job is probably something part time that lets her focus on passions, helping people and having a family that shes deeply entwined with. maybe she does taxes lol she'd get people such good tax breaks i bet. ok yeah i actually find that very cute, because the job would be helpful to others, something she'd understand, something that she can focus on and make an effort at, and i assume anakin would be working part time as a mechanic so its not like she'd need to do more than work for herself 4 hours a day, probably throughout the day in her spare time, during the twin's naps, while theyre at school or lessons, maybe a little before bed if shes feeling antsy and not ready to settle down yet.

i literally never have thought of this au or really any kind of "none of that happened" aus seriously because i find a lack of appeal in cutting away some of the juicier or harder hitting thematic aspects, but now that i Have thought of it i see the appeal. padmè happy... i love it.

(also some of you are wrong about which of her outfits are better. @mathildepadme understands me. stop voting outfits we like off of the padme outfit polls. you should all just ask me what to vote for and i will tell you. the ideal final match is between the red invasion gown and the end dress. those two are the best ones by far for me. it's too bad they dont make end dress merch like maybe no one else did i would absolutely buy a little figurine of her in her casket carefully arrayed. but at least i'll always have red invasion gown stuff XD they make so much of it. and for good reason.)

[marvelstars]

Anakin Skywalker, the Republic and Politics

Shmi cut me off. “The Republic doesn’t exist out here, ” she said sharply. “We must survive on our own.”

I have placed all my faith in the Republic. Its laws are formalized, enforced throughout the galaxies. Yet there are places, whole worlds, where they are ignored.

Am I placing too much faith in the Senate? It is all I have. But is depending on it to right the wrongs of the Naboo asking too much?

Padmé Amidala | Episode I Journal: Queen Amidala

It´s quite simple really why would a former slave trust the Republic to enforce their laws if they failed so epically at enforcing their "no slavery allowed" law on Tatooine and other planets and not only that but part of their politicians openly practice it? and as a Jedi he wasn´t asked to help free slaves on Tatooine as a guardian of peace and justice but he was made to save the heir of the main slaver in his home planet.

No wonder Anakin was of the mind that Republic citizens need to be given the tools to take care of their own needs, see security during the clone wars, because the alternative, the republic doing something about it, was next to zero.

He became authoritarian because of Palpatine but even as Vader if he didn´t trust a Grand admiral he didn´t just let them know that but it was kind of Vader´s job to keep them in line or be done with them which the Emperor allowed, we can´t allow an admiral become too powerful to become a menace for the Emperor, the only untouchable one was Tarkin and still I am pretty sure the main reason Vader was on Death Star I was to make sure Tarkin didn´t got any ideas about using the weapon agaisnt Palpatine to take over the Empire with the power of the Death Star. As Vader he believed he could bring order to the galaxy with the power of the Empire but also wanted a Senate to represent the system, Vader didn´t agree on the use of the death star or the dissapareance of the Senate.

Anakin Skywalker at heart wasn´t left or right, he certainly hold ideals "The biggest problem in the galaxy is that no one helps each other" and "Lest free all the slaves" but I don´t think he believed politicians from either ideology truly represented those ideals and star wars is pretty vague about the ideology of the politicians during Republic time, in fact neither did Obi-Wan and that´s quite interesting given they expend a lot of time around politicians and using diplomacy, they didn´t get those ideas from ignorance, they got those ideas from interacting with politicians and most often than not, they saw Politicians used those ideals to get power and didn´t care for much else besides that.

Anakin looks to me like an idealist - realist who later became a pragmatic who supported an authoritation regime, his heart was idealist but his mind told him the galaxy moved to the sound of realpolitik and that´s what he practiced as General in the clone wars and later as Darth Vader.

He loved and trusted Padme because he knew with every fibre of his being that she was honest and truly cared and that´s the example he wanted Ahsoka to learn from, that´s why he send Ahsoka to learn politics from Padme, not from Palpatine but he trusted and listened to Palpatine because he appealed to his more pragmatic side.

Anakin would have loved to think the galaxy worked as Padme wanted it to work but his mind and his past told him that in practice power was what truly moved the galaxy highest espheres just as it worked when he was a kid. His actions in the clone wars reflect that, he served all his orders but also made an extra effort to help those who were not the priority of anybody in a position of power, be it Plo Koon and his men, the clones, Saw Guerrera, Neutral planets in the war, citizens with no bone to pick with either side, etc.

TBH while he probably didn´t agree with Satine on her peaceful stance towards the war, he didn´t criticize her for seeking a peaceful end to the war as Obi-Wan did, in fact he tried to talk with her on her terms, telling her they were at her service as guardians not soldiers even if she and he knew what he really meant, Anakin certainly approved of her distrust towards the Republic and didn´t argue with her about the Jedi becoming soldiers because that was exactly what they had become, Anakin doesn´t argue with reality, he just did´t think that was permanent and that they could get back to what they were once the war was done. He also agreed with Satine wish to keep her people out of the war "She is a remarkable woman" Anakin told Obi-Wan.

His problem was that he didn´t got to voice those oppinions or discuss them in a serious way with Padme or Obi-Wan because he knew they probably woulnd not agree with him and promptly expect him to follow their lead, he only did so with Palpatine because he apparently listened to him or at least let him express himself Anakin truly wanted to agree with the people he loved most in the galaxy but he didn´t ,not on this matter.

I believe fandom and sometimes the clone wars and new material doesn´t truly explore Anakin´s political ideas in part because Lucas made the mistake of reducing them to a tease between Anakin and Padme on their firt date to give more chance to the tragic part of his story but originally (OT)Vader fell to the darkside because of his politics and his relationship to the Emperor, the story is still there and it´s a real shame fandom just makes fun of them when they add so much to the story, Anakin brings the realism into the fairlytale in many ways, including the political one.