#sydcarmy discourse

[endlesslyhyperfixating]

This Is What You Wanted, Right? – SydCarmy & Subtext

Every time Carmy says “This is what you wanted, right?” to Sydney, it feels like Storer and Calo are straight-up taunting us. Like, "Yeah, you wanted this dynamic? This push-and-pull? This agonizingly slow burn? Well, buckle up." They know exactly what they’re doing.

LET ME EXPLAIN

Season 1, Episode 3: "Brigade"

This is the first time Carmy drops the phrase, and it sets the tone for their entire relationship. He’s trying to implement the brigade system, but Sydney’s not on board with how rigid and intense it is. Their exchange goes:

Carmy: "You told me that's what you wanted."

Sydney:"No. I-I said I wanted more to do. I didn't say I wanna run a Russian gymnastics program."

Right away, it’s clear: Sydney asked for something, and Carmy, in typical Carmy fashion, took it and ran with it to an extreme. But the way he phrases it? It’s not just about the brigade system. It’s a challenge. You wanted to be here, didn’t you? You wanted to work with me? And that’s something we see again and again: Sydney choosing to be in Carmy’s orbit, even when it’s a lot.

This is a great starting point for their relationship because it shows that in order for them to be on the same page they have to jump through a few hurdles or misunderstanding and miscommunication first. They will have many obstacles to face before really hearing each other, and for things (between them) to work "the way I think we both want it to work."

Hello. So much subtext in almost every line between these two it makes me CRAZY.

Season 1, Episode 7: "Review"

Now, things get even more intense. The kitchen is a disaster, tensions are at an all-time high, and Carmy, who is spiraling under the weight of it all, snaps at Sydney:

Carmy: "This is what you wanted, right?"

It’s not a genuine question. It’s a LOADED one. There’s frustration, maybe even resentment, but beneath that? There’s an understanding. Sydney wanted something (more responsibility, more control, a partnership with Carmy) and now she’s feeling the full weight of it.

He told her that her dish wasn't ready (or he wasn't ready for her.) And because she put herself out there, and was enjoyed and appreciated by someone else it stings in a different way for him, hearing the review of her superb risotto dish. Hence his frustration towards the pre-order option being left open over night only being excelled due to this.

And this moment is key because it isn’t just about work and the frustrations there, but It’s about them. Their dynamic. Their push and pull.

Season 2, Episode 8: "Bolognese"

This one right here is such a quietly brutal moment. Sydney’s pissed because Carmy’s been running ideas by Claire—who, at this point, is basically in the periphery of everything going on with the restaurant—and it’s clear Sydney feels totally blindsided. So she says:

Sydney: "–So, I should I also send my revised COGS to your girlfriend?"

Carmy: "You don't need to send anything—she's not my girlfriend."

Sydney: "So she's not even your girlfriend."

Carmy: "Right."

Sydney: "And we're, like, arranging this menu—"

Carmy: "She's not arranging anything and she's not looking at the menu—this is what you wanted originally and that is what I'm giving you–"

That line? Oof. He says it AGAIN. And it hits different this time. There’s this weird bitterness to it, like he’s using her own ambition against her to justify why he’s messing things up. It’s defensive, but it’s also exposing, because if it really was “what she wanted,” why does he sound so wounded? Why is she so hurt? It’s not just about logistics. It's not even about Claire, really. It’s about the rift between them.

It's about Carmy choosing to confide in someone else. It’s about Sydney realizing that the “partnership” she thought they were building isn’t quite what she thought it was. And again, choice comes back, choosing each other, or not.

It's straight up saying all these people want is a bit(or all) of each other. Sydney doesn't want to share his focus, just as Carmen wants all of hers.

This, (as far as I know/remember) is the last time he directly says this exact phrase to her. From season one to two it was a challenge to her. A challenge for their relationship. "This is what you wanted?" Almost always checking in with her, too.

It's like saying, hey, yeah, we know the pressure's a lot, and often you feel like throwing a brick in my face, but it's what you chose. It's what you want.

Storer Knows Exactly What He's Doing

The writers love their little winks at the audience, and this phrase? It’s definitely one of them. Every time Carmy says "This is what you wanted” to Sydney, it’s like the show is turning to us, the SydCarmy truthers, and saying:

"This is what you wanted, right?"

A relationship that’s layered, complicated, built on mutual ambition and unspoken tension? A connection that’s frustratingly slow, where every tiny shift feels monumental? The show is teasing us, making us earn whatever payoff is coming. (And it is.)

And the proof that this is all intentional? Fast-forward to Season 3, Episode 1, when Sydney asks why Carmy is changing everything, and he responds with:

"So I can push you, and you can push me."

It’s all connected. From "You wanted to work here, right?” to “This is what you wanted, right?” to “So I can push you, and you can push me.” It’s all part of the same conversation. A question of choice. Of whether they’ll keep choosing each other, through the chaos, through the pressure, through everything. Despite the obstacles, despite the slow realization, they keep coming back to each other. They're gonna keep coming back to each other.

Because we know that everything in this show is purposeful. It's meaningful. And these significant repeating lines are powerful tools to hint and push us towards what they're working for. It's a question of how long can they keep this up.

And we already know the answer.

So yeah, it’s going to be slow. It’s going to be maddening. But this is what we wanted, right?

[outmakingmoonshine]

It was even out in the previous episode after the locker scene where he was trying to hang out with her. Maybe he was expecting to take her back to his apartment then so she'd see it, but she didn't come.

The next episode he directly asked her to come to the apartment so she would see it.

Someone tell me to fuck off if this is too much of a reach but:

What the fuck was this doing out if not to impress Sydney????

Man has 3 things in his apartment besides furniture (and by furniture I mean a couch a bed and tables/counter space) books, tv, journal WHAT REASON DID HE HAVE TO LEAVE HIS VERY EXPENSIVE MONAGRAMED CHEFS JACKET OUT WHEN HE KNOWS SYDNEY KNOWS WHO HE IS MAN WAS FLEXING

“Have I done it? Have I impressed her?” JESUS CHRIST

[freedelusionshere]

Are Syd and Carm already seeing each other outside of the restaurant?

Syd, off screen, has seemingly made several pasta dishes now.

Unless of course, Carm made all the noodles for Nat and Pete, and they just chose not to show it? Bolognese, minestrone, lasagna, beef stew with noodles. All of these dishes require pasta.

Did Carm contribute to making the meal Syd drops off for Nat and Pete? Little hints of things going on that they're not showing. Similar to Syd mysteriously being able to sign an apartment lease with shitty credit and without her dad's support.

The last time we see Syd trying to make pasta herself she ends up frustrated and unsatisfied with the results.

We also see Tina making pasta in the S4 trailer, but I'm going to speculate that she's learning that from Carm and that Tina and Carm will get closer in S4, mirroring Mikey and Tina's relationship. Tina will be able to get through to Carm where she could not to Mikey.

That was a bit of story that was mentioned and hasn't been brought up again since S1, when Tina tells Carm that she loved Mikey a whole lot. Carmy never brings it back up, because he's tried to bury his grief about his brother's death beneath his work. He even admits to Marcus in S3 he didn't deal with it.

All that to say, the pasta making once again hints that perhaps Syd and Carm actually are already hanging out together outside of work off screen. His behavior in Apologies just before he asks her out is very much like a husband telling his wife not to wait up for him because he's working late.

Just like when Carm tries to ask Syd what her dad thought about the apartment, and she changes the subject. Her dad, who basically had been using the apartment as a metaphor to talk trash non-stop about Carm being her partner. Carm seems to be the only one who knows about this, no one else mentions it to her or asks about it. They all show up there later in Forever to party there. But narratively, it's only given importance when Carm asks her about it.

Wouldn't it be wild if Carm does show up to Syd's place while she's in the alley having a panic attack because that is where he was always headed to begin with? Her reaction to him going off about Chef David is very "oh well" and not like someone trying to pull him out of the mess he's making. She's not even checking in with him, Luca is. Now, this could be just because she wants to have a good time and she's over it, but she's very non-plussed by it, I'll just say that. Because she knows they're going to talk about whatever is going on with him later.

Syd playing coy when Luca asks her if there is anyone besides her dad because there actually is, they're just not telling people? Syd is very private; it wouldn't surprise me at all. Doesn't want to end up on those team text threads!

It also would be funny, because it mirrors the dumping situation at the house party with Kelly, and Claire going in on Carm would then make perfect sense. She will accuse him of cheating on her with Syd. Syd and Carm start seeing each other outside of work again after the walk-in incident (they had already been at his place twice before he started seeing Claire).

Now, Syd is the one "cheating" on their restaurant by possibly dumping him for Shapiro. Which would mean he doesn't get to work with her and see her every day, except maybe outside of work. But that is ultimately what he wants, of course, to be able to have her as part of his family and for her to need him.

Carm telling Ted and Neil at the dumpsters that he thinks about Claire every day when it's actually about Syd. He's lying because they're not telling people about it, but it's something he wants to be able to talk about and can't. Syd asks, "Where are the Faks!" she doesn't have anyone she can talk about this to. She's not going to do it with Nat because it's her baby brother.

Her saying she's his "accomplice" makes sense if they're behaving codependently because they are emotionally closer than ever. Her whispering to him she's not his babysitter and he stops acting up immediately instead of being upset by her putting him in check which requires a certain level of trust and knowledge of the other person's triggers. It's a sign of intimacy between them.

If they show them making pasta together onscreen in S4, I'm definitely going to think that's what's been up. Carm thinking about Claire in S3 is not because he wants to still be with her. He's trying to figure out what made him drawn to her in the first place. Like Claire, he's trying to understand her in order to figure himself out and what he really wants.

Hiding, as Nat mentions to Carm in the S4 trailer. Syd also hides emotionally as well. Nat feels like he is hiding. Meanwhile, they show Syd and she's basically telling him off directly about how he can't let his chaos fuel everything. This is after she watched him get out of control at Ever. It's her having enough understanding and intimacy with him to be able to say these things to his face, in contrast with Nat and Tina saying that he's "chasing something" and he "doesn't need to hide" because they aren't as close to him as Syd is. That scene with her telling him chaos fuels him is very different from her calling him a POS to his face and walking out on him. And it also shows him listening to her and looking contrite.

The legerdemain of it all! I mean, who knows, but I've always suspected this could be a possible twist. It doesn't even necessarily mean they've had sex or are committed (although Claire will think so as will Donna). It just means that they've come to rely on each other more emotionally than what they're showing us at the moment and are actually trying to figure things out outside of the confines of the restaurant.

[ruethrills]

REAL

REALER

[endlesslyhyperfixating]

How am I only just seeing this??

[goddessxdivine]

the scene in Brigade where Carmy brings Syd the family meal, which she doesn’t even take a bite of, and stays outside with her clearly wanting to be alone:

“what’s goin on with you”

“nothing”

“Sydney…”

for me it’s specifically the way he said her name and her folding immediately. by then they’d only know each other for maybe a month and they were so familiar in that moment. and rest of their conversation feels like they know each other so well … that and the Syd fancam to calm down a panic attack scene

[fairestbeard]

Now why did I burst out laughing finding out that french "Carmy" has a white love interest? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[outmakingmoonshine]

I completely agree with this OP! That line in 2x08 seemed very significant. And Carmy said to Syd in 2x09 "she's expecting some kind of miracle or something" talking about Nat but he couldn't look at Syd when he said the word miracle. The way he delivered that line felt like it was important and the annoucer on Syd's phone in 2x08 was definitely important imo. It wasn't muffled or drowned out, it was clear audio and it was in the subtitles so that line was supposed to be heard clear as day.

they need a miracle!

I really wish I knew about making gifs because this is hard to explain with just text but I really think one of the most underrated sydcarmy scenes of the series, and the one that to me confirms a sydcarmy endgame that has been plotted throughout the series is the montage at the end of "Bolognese".

We see Carmy at the grocery store and then cooking alone in his kitchen, finishing the pasta he was rolling out in the earlier episode with Syd (not the actual same pasta dough obviously, but I think it is a spiritual continuation of that pasta).

We see Sydney at The Bear scrubbing, also alone, and exactly a mirror image of Carmy scrubbing the same spot in Season 1.

And then! my favourite part! We see Sydney on the bus going home with her headphones in watching college basketball on her phone. The commentary for the game says "they need a miracle".

The Bear is a show that plays a lot with aural overlays providing commentary on what is happening within the show. In Season 1 the ballbreaker music loudly plays over the most tense moments when everything is falling apart - it's a bit of comic relief.

In the Bolognese scene it's a bit more meta, that specific line of commentary is the only one we here from the game, and apart from the lyrics of "Throw Your Arms Around Me" which plays over the monateg, this is the only line of dialogue. So it stands to reason, it's got to mean something.

But who needs a miracle? Certainly not Carmy and Claire, who in this montage are probably at their most romantic, and it's not The Bear because nothing in this montage is anything to do with the business, so it can only be Sydney and Carmy. Sydney and Carmy who in Pasta, a few episodes before were so in sync, on the brink of tipping their friendship and their partnership into something more.

As an aside, I think it's also pretty signficant that the lyrics end on "if we never meet again" in this episode, and in the following episode, we pick up the theme under the table with Pearl Jam's "Come Back"

[radio-audience]

whenever people don't like a m/f ship, they say "men and women don't always have to be in love!!!"

the internet and fandoms always take actual issues and dilute them until they're meaningless. men and women can be friends, but seems like a lot of people just want to use that phrase as ammo in shipping wars in order to have the moral high ground.

yes this is about sydcarmy. if you don't like the ship for some reason or think their relationship is different, that's fine, but come up with some actual compelling points instead of just saying "sydcarmy shippers are stupid!" or "they don't know how relationships work!" or "men and women don't always have to be in love!" and stop saying that it's going to ruin the show without any real line of reasoning as to how that could possibly ruin the show.

there's no reason to shoot down the possibility of sydcarmy being real yet, except for you being overly emotional about it. you're just going to make yourself angry if/when you get proven wrong, and that doesn't need to happen. it's a good show, stop letting other people and yourself ruin it for you

[thoughtfulchaos773]

Pearly Dewdrops-Drops

Hey, remember @currymanganese's post about the song from the last season when Claire and Carmy had their first kiss? It was "Can't Hardly Wait" by the Replacements.

Curry noticed that Fak was talking about the song with the contractor, and Sydney rolled her eyes at the conversation. It's a song played in the coming-of-age teen romcom Can't Harly Wait, in which the guy has a crush on this beautiful girl, and on his graduation day of senior year, he promises to confess his love.

In Episode 3x04 Violet, the song "Pearly Dewdrops-Drops" by Cocteau Twins sets the mood for a teenage romance scene that reminds of something you'd see on the CW, like in One Tree Hill. As Carmy and Claire whisper in the dark, Claire shares a story about a girl with scars who has yet to feel pain, echoing deeper themes of growth and healing (this girl was also a teenager, from what I can recall). This song was also featured in the film Perks of Being a Wallflower, which is about a teenager dealing with PTSD while finding friendship and love. In a way, this plot is similar to Carmy's journey as he grows up and grapples with his mental health.

Claire is embodies an idealized version of teenage love..

Also, when Fak gives Claire Carmy's number and expresses his love for the classic coming-of-age song "Can't Hardly Wait," it represents Fak as a symbol of Carmy's naive side @outmakingmoonshine post explains. Fak captures Carmy's teenage experience - he missed out on youthful experiences, where the teens' characters navigate pain, love, heartbreak, and joy.

Returning to Claire, her role in Carmy's journey suggests their relationship might not last. Claire's presence marks a point in Carmy's coming-of-age story, a journey of gaining experience since his life stopped and he never learned how to navigate relationships healthily.

Looking back on the music, it seems thoughtful in its use to move the narrative and provide a deeper understanding of the characters' inner worlds and growth. That's what season 3 was for me- it focused on the characters' inner life.

But all the music for Claire and Carmy includes heartbreak songs and 80s music, and there are references to coming-of-age movies like John Hughes' filmography.

I think the heavy references to coming-of-age stories show Claire's role in Carmy's life as more about his personal growth than a lasting romance.

Feel free to reply or reblog to discuss!

Tagging @moodyeucalyptus, @vacationship @brokenwinebox, @mitocamdria, @ambeauty, @yannaryartside if you are interested but no pressure!

[freedelusionshere]

Just wanted to have a place to collect my predictions related to this topic:

The perfect dish will be pasta

My Donna is Syd's Mean Pasta Lady theory

Sydcarmy will not be "gluey and mushy" pasta

My E-rated fic solution to Mean Pasta Lady 🤣

Are Carm and Syd already seeing each other outside the restaurant (and makingatha pasta)? And my G-rated fic related to that, Italian Beef Stew and Minestrone.

Syd making nothing but dishes full of pasta to serve Nat after she has the baby.

Mangia!

[cchickki]

this is how i gotta be in fandoms now shipping the black character with any non black lead 😒

[mod-doodles]

Explored Reddit because boredom, here was my experience:

1. Sydney is being defended a little bit more, progress. I wonder what changed, I don’t want to reduce it to this but they have been posting Ayo’s magazine photos.

2. Read this really interesting post about how many times ‘beautiful’ is mentioned in season two. <has anyone else read this post>. The writer claimed they weren’t arguing for or against Claire and Carmy, but interpretations skewed more pro Claire in a diplomatic way. They brought up Molly’s statement that intimacy for Carmy is starring at a woman. Conveniently does not address he spends most of both seasons starring at Syd. But no harm, no foul, it was interesting.

3. They think the romance angle is coming from Sydney if at all, this truly made me chuckle. It’s literally the complete opposite of what we’re picking up, because sometimes I have no read on Syd. Only when Claire appeared or was mentioned, or the latter half of the table scene and the stare off Syd and Carmy had in the first episode of season one reacted as though she had any feelings or interest, she’s so guarded. So that was hilarious.

4. When they discuss the pairing, they still flat out dismiss it. Don’t address any of the one thousand scenes that what suggest romance. Nothing new there.

5. They think Ebon had the best acting, and I’m not anti Richie but Jeremy Allen White carries the show, @moments-on-film addresses this. End of discussion.

6. There was one thing we could all agree on was that the table did not need fixing.

7. They also tried to run a poll on if The Bear’s audience was more male or female. I’m no statistician but I can without a doubt state that running that poll on Reddit would render an deceptive results.

Rating: 3/10 would not recommend, it’s not as bad as when the new season was released but it’s still Reddit.

[bananapopsicies]

it’s them ur honor

(beautiful art of maireadcarmy in their yet to be published seven fishes scene by the impeccable @darkostudios-blog)

[mcondance]

being anti sydcarmy is one thing but saying THE sydney adamu can’t cook. . now you blocked 🙁 and full out saying that she fucking stalked carmen. . is crazy?? attributing all of the bear’s success to carmen when that man is holding on by the grace of 5 cigarettes and a bottle of pepto bismol is also crazy. he can’t even do math! complaining about syd bringing richie’s daughter into things when the man literally said she sucked dick to get a good review is even crazier like!!! that person a fucking loser i cannot.

[kiarpennington]

Name a hot take you have; I’ll go first! For me, I feel that a platonic friendship and a platonic soulmate ARE NOT interchangeable terms! Furthermore, just because the word platonic is used, does not make it so! What’s your hot take? Let me know in the comments! And for more fun content, check out the Kia’s Commentary podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube!