#that's half the problem with the robin legacy isn't it

[soleminisanction]

Saw your post in his tag and I completely agree with your Tim loves being Robin post! The “He needs to grow up” thing pisses me off so much. I kind of blame Damian for its existence, but that might be unfair. Isn’t there a comic where Dick lectures Tim about going back to being Robin or being in Bruce’s shadow again? I think I remember reading something like that, but I may be misremembering.

It's not a lecture exactly, but there was a fairly recent comic (here meaning, like I think it was from 2021, 2022? It maaaay have been an issue of Tim Drake: Robin but I genuinely don't remember) where he brought the subject up in the context of like, "It shouldn't be your job to take care of Bruce."

Blame is kinda the wrong word because it implies that Damian the character is "at fault" for the shift, but I do think it's fair to say that Damian/Damian's presence in the narrative is the source of where this sentiment comes from.

Partially because there's a not-insignificant number of Damian stans who seem incapable of separating his in-character resentment of and conflict with Tim from the larger scope of their stories and thus view Tim using the Robin name as a threat/insult to their fav, so they make up and glom onto any arbitrary reason they can come up with for why he should have to change and Damian should get to stay, like two people arguing over who should have to change after showing up to a dinner party in the same outfit.

But mostly it's because of the greater damage that the last ~15 years of pushing Damian as Robin has done to the Robin legacy and its role in the narrative. Which isn't really about Damian himself -- Damian is a perfectly fine character as he is, he tells interesting stories and he clearly offers narrative avenues that people are interested in exploring. The problem is that none of those avenues have damn thing to do with ROBIN.

The story of Damian being/having been Dick's Robin during the Batman Rebirth era is important to his personal story and the story of how he relates to both Dick and Bruce. But outside of that very specific era, which lasted a grand total of -- on the very generous outside -- two and half years, every single one of Damian's stories would be exactly the same if he'd been using literally any other superhero codename.

Because they're not really Robin stories, or Batman & Robin stories. They're either Son of the Bat stories, where Damian deals with the angst of being Batman's son; Batman & Son stories, where Bruce and Damian work on their familial relationship very specifically in the context of a father and his son; or Son of the Demon stories, where Damian unpacks the trauma/conflict/occasional pride of being Ra's al-Ghul's grandson.

The lone exception to this is Juni Ba's The Boy Wonder from last year, which is imho the best Damian story that's ever been written in no small part because it's a love letter to the Robin legacy as told through Damian's eyes while he learns to understand and appreciate that legacy. (It's also about other things but that's because it's a very very good story.)

On the flipside, probably Damian's most popular role, the one that people keep trying to shove both him and his costar back into, is kind of proof-positive of my entire point, because being one-half of The Supersons is a role that was NEVER meant to be filled by a Robin. It's a role that was created for, originated, and always intended to be filled, by a character literally named Batman Junior.

And yet. Because they've insisted, for the last ~15 years, on telling those stories while Damian is wearing a Robin costume, using the Robin name, and advertising under names like Robin: Son of the Bat, it's led to skewing the meta-narrative around what the role and legacy of Robin is supposed to mean.

Instead of being its own, complex and distinctly queer relationship ("queer" not in the sense that it is romantic or sexual, but in that it does not fit neatly into one of society's designated boxes for defining social relationships), the way it was for over 60 goddamn years, Robin has now been half-forced into a singular, distinctly heteronormative and patriarchal definition of "a father teaching his son." And sons are, by societal mandate, meant to someday either leave or overtake their fathers. And since only The Golden Firstborn Dick or the One True Blood Heir Damian is """allowed""" by these heteronormative definitions to someday inherit the cowl, everyone else has to be forced out. "To grow up" as people keep putting it.

The shift in perspective is a direct result of Damian being Robin. It's not the only factor -- Jason's post-UtRH movie popularity factors in too, since fandom tends to zero in on certain elements of his Robin years like the adoption and "Robin gives me magic" and reduce a lot of his less-flattering traits to ~sexy angst and daddy issues~ -- but the way Damian gets used in the narrative is the primary factor from where I'm sitting.

Like I said at the top: it's not Damian, the character's, "fault" or anything. It's just a really frustrating result of people trying to force a more ambiguous relationship into a heteronormative mold that it was never meant to fit, and then getting retroactively mad at characters who were never designed to fit in that mold for breaking it.

[havenesc]

hello HELLO!! I am OBSESSED over your rancher AU,, you have such a big brain!! If youre in the mood to yap about it, i am sooo interested in hearing more!!

WOAH HI!!! thank you so so much, that means quite a bit!! I love this AU and it has been quite a joy to work on when I'm stuck in my office job or away from my own horses so :') Always happy to indulge and yap and this........ is a very long yap LOL.

I am writing a frankly ridiculously long fic about it, but this whole shit really started with ""i like jason and i like horses and i keep listening to lord huron's way out there on repeat." so here we are. rotting it out. <3 <3

I think physically removing Jason from Gotham, or from any major metropolitan area containing capes, is a really interesting idea. He lives and breathes and is born from this city. (Where's that one post calling it his wire mother?) Jason is so deeply interconnected in the machinations of the city and how she operates that by removing him, by forcing him into a situation where he cannot go back for the time being and instead has to live among people he perceives as "regular," he gets to breathe outside of the walls that Gotham and Bruce have defined for him. He gets to explore who he could be, really, beneath the masks and the death and the failed legacy of a kid who just wanted to be magic, who isn't living with his mental/emotional triggers sitting on his bedside table like a loaded gun. For once, even under a fake name, Jason Todd gets to be something other than a tombstone or the face of a tightly-run crime syndicate. Jason doesn't even bring that dying shit up all the time, but everyone else seems to hold it against him. (Probably due to rationalizing all the murder.)

He's like a shelter dog following the 3 Rules of Decompression. This guy gets a horse and gets some friends who don't really know what to make of him at first but he's a hard worker and a fast learner and he wants to work as a team, no matter how prickly and weird he is at first.

Additionally, I think it's also fun to explore what his absence does to Gotham, and how the city would react to not having an enforcer. The Batman and his brood exists, obviously, but there is an ecosystem that Red Hood understands intricately in a way that the Batman cannot and will not. He has the uniqueness of being one of the only Robins to both live poor as fuck and also experience it from Bruce's perspective -- the only other one really being Stephanie -- and he knows how to weaponize this for max efficiency. Red Hood is the wolf introduced to keep the deer population down. How does the crime scene change, how do the Bats have to navigate adapting to that radical change? When it breaks that the Red Hood is out of business, who takes charge? And at what point do you look at yourself in the mirror, say, "Yeah I fucked this one up, bring that guy back?" And what the hell do you do when you find out you can't?

Anyways! I love thinking about how vital Jason is to the Gotham Social Fauna. I also love thinking about how his blue roan gelding, Blue, is a descendant of Doc Bar. I love thinking about the plates in McLaren's tibia because he got nailed by a bull in the exact perfect spot for the damn bone to split in half. I love thinking about Jason experiencing nature, and Glacier Park, and for once in his life feeling so small and insignificant in the world that his problems actually feel the distance they are from him. I love thinking about him finding the connections with people who have always been receptive to him in some way, even when he's a bristling scared snarling dog, because even if Jason Peter Todd is convinced that he is unlovable and irredeemable, nobody else knows that shit. So you might as well put your foot in the stirrup and come along because we need you and your resilience and your strength and your laughter and your good-heartedness to get through another twelve hours in the saddle together.

Also, these two songs in order on my fucking jason rancher au playlist are very jason and dick coded and listening to them makes me want to lay on the floor and stare at my ceiling for about three hours. Actually this whole thing is a love letter to lord huron.

[megamindsupremacy]

Heyyyy so about that pjo/batfam au.... I love it.

I wonder if any of the bat kids are legacies or half bloods? Like, they'd be ripe for urgent adoption and training, given the inherent risk of monsters! Not to mention the specially bred deep rooted battle/hero instincts. Would only some be half bloods? Any? How would that affect the dynamics, to have some (or just B) be aware of and able to interact with this whole secret world complete with monsters hidden in plain sight?? There's got to be tons of secret pjo resource stashes like different metals, foods, weapons, armour hidden everywhere hehe.

Ooh, would a bat kid ever have accidentally eaten ambrosia/nectar (or gotten close) without knowing what it is? Is Alfred a legacy?? A satyr?!! That'd be so so cool. (and it'd be an explanation for how long lived he is lmao)

If the batkids were all legacies/half bloods, who would be who? Would there be a mix of greek/roman? Is Bruce aware of the Egyptians or Norse lot?? I'm so curioussssss

ooo okay so the batkids! i explained it like... a year ago (jeez) in this post but here's the basic rundown:

Bruce: Athena (three parents, complicated situation)

Dick: Hermes (three parents, uncomplicated situation)

Babs: mortal, clearsighted, not The Oracle but calls herself Oracle

Jason: Nemesis (still working this one out)

Cass: Shiva/Nike, raised by David Cain

Tim: Bellona/Janet (who is a legacy of zeus)

Steph: Apollo

Damian: Legacy Athena/Hades

Duke: normal ("normal") meta but everyone up to and including Apollo thinks he's Apollo's kid

-

There are definitely stashes of demigod resources! most of the stock is in the Batcave, but they definitely have stashes in all the safehouses. They're basically like any other resource- medical supplies, celestial bronze dagger, batarangs, smoke pellets, ambrosia, etc. Considering that celestial bronze and nectar/ambrosia are pretty rare, i doubt they're using them daily, but everyone definitely has emergency demigod equipment on them. I'm also making Gotham a Land Beyond Gods, a la Alaska in SoN, so there's less of a monster problem than other cities. Gotham kinda like the trash dump of the demigod world- all the weird fucked up stuff ends up there for our intrepid heroes to get chased by.

-

Most of the Batkids are aware of who they are, eventually! Bruce, Cass, and Damian always know, Dick and Jason figure it out pretty quickly after living with Bruce, Tim figures it out himself before becoming Robin, and Steph only figures it out after she "dies" (poor guy). Bruce isn't very good with the Mist, and monsters aren't like, a huge problem in Gotham, so it's not really a big deal to them if they are/aren't demigods. Babs kept up just fine as a mortal, after all. Like i said earlier, ambrosia/nectar are in short supply in Gotham (bruce doesn't really have a consistent way of getting more besides through diana, who also doesnt really have a consistent way of getting more), so nobody's eating any by accident.

-

I have literally no idea what's going on with Alfred. I joked a while back that he's a minor god, which I'm not opposed to, I'd just have to work that one out a bit more. The satyr idea is fun and works really well, except imagining Alfred with goat legs and eating aluminum cans freaks me out and I don't know what to do about that. He could also just be a mortal blessed by [insert god here] to have a longer lifespan, or someone who made a deal with [insert god here] to be alive as long as Bruce/the Wayne family needs him. It'll be interesting to figure out, whenever I end up doing that!

-

Bruce and Co. are NOT aware of the other pantheons! As in, they are so unaware of the other pantheons that nobody can figure out who the fuck Tim's godly parent is. Bellona is on nobody's radar, everyone is split between Ares/Dionysus/Athena/????. They also haven't figured out he's a Zeus legacy, because his ancestor fled to Gotham during WW2 and then did their best to hide their heritage for their and their kids' safety. Poor guy doesn't know what the fuck is going on, basically. Bruce is actually pretty cut off from CHB, so he's not super up-to-date about the demigod world. He tends to focus more on the superhero side of things. His kids have varying levels of interest/affiliation with the demigods, but they're definitely not on the "first to know" end of news whenever things happen. It takes a hot minute for anyone to figure out the Romans exist, and considering that Percy and Annabeth try pretty hard to conceal the Egyptian and presumably Norse pantheons, we can assume the Batfam isn't aware of those guys for quite a bit after the Greeks learn about them.

[tablestoastandtime]

How to Scratch a Record - Multiverse

Just half a one-shot set in my How to Scratch a Record 'verse (which is why I'm tagging Tim). This isn't canon to that verse and a bunch of the little details have changed so don't assume that any specific thing will definitely happen over there, but this concept hasn't left me alone so-

Down the line Jason and other Bats encountering a Batfamily from a universe closer to canon

Multiverse shit was always sketchy. Even at the best of times, with the best possible combinations, it was always weird and a little bit unsafe to have multiple versions of the same person running around. Sure it could lead to really fast problem solving, but it could also lead to some of the worst knock-down drag out fights any particular thunderdome had ever seen.

Jason wasn’t thrilled about having a complete second set of his family on site, was what he was saying. The costumes varied a bit, but it wasn’t that hard to pick out who was who underneath.

What he really didn’t like, was that it was pretty obviously his double dressed to the nines in a leather jacket and shiny red helmet. Jason didn’t want to be Red Hood, and he didn’t like what it said about their world that he was so comfortable in the role.

It didn’t matter, shouldn’t matter. Legacy titles were legacy titles and sometimes people picked them up to pay respect to someone they had valued. Despite their ups and downs, Jason had never wanted anyone to think he didn’t value how much Alvin had done and continued to do for the Alley. If Alvin really ever needed someone to cover for him while he was unavailable for an extended period of time, Jason would at least consider it.

Except. Alvin was a lot of things and stubborn was chief among them. He would never walk away from Gotham, from doing what he thought was right his own way, even when he fucked up. If Alvin Draper wasn’t the Red Hood where these alternates were from then he must not be able to do the work.

Jason didn’t like the thought, like grit caught in his teeth.

To be fair, the feeling seemed to be at least somewhat mutual. The Jason-in-the-Hood had been shooting him stony and clearly assessing glances periodically since they’d arrived, but hadn’t made any attempt to approach. Jason figured it’d be some time in the next twelve minutes or so unless something more pressing came up.

The two Batmen were certainly having fun, if the staredown they hadn’t let up on was any way to judge. Jason was also a little suspicious of how easy it was to tell them apart; his own Bat with navy highlights and yellow accents, armoured to take a bullet and allow for the kind of acrobatics that made him seem half liquid half wraith. The other Bat was all monochromatic blacks and grays, a shadow brought to life and layered with semi-flex plating that looked like it was intended to stop a shell from a tank rather than a shotgun. How he moved Jason sure didn’t know, but he was absolutely certain that whatever this Batman hit went down.

Over at the Batcomputer, in what Jason was pretty sure was a blatant breach of multiversal protocol, the two Tims were huddled over casefiles both on screen and from some kind of tablet the visiting Tim had pulled out. Interesting to see him in a Red Robin suit even with the cowl down, since local Tim was pretty adverse to anything and everything to do with the Red Hood, but maybe he’d stepped into the role to support his Jason after-

Probably not worth speculating on though, not unless he wanted to really get into the nitty gritty of gossip that very likely wouldn’t ever be relevant to him again.

More interesting was the almost identical Batgirl costumes the Casses were wearing. They matched down to some of the semi-decorative stitching and it was frankly more than a little uncanny. Was the design just that good that they’d inadvertently recreated them in some sort of convergent evolution thing, or was the second Batgirl just some kind of multiversal constant? Did Jason even want to know?

Maybe he’d be better off hanging out with the Nightwings. Sure Dickhead could be annoying, but at least they were similar enough to clearly be on the same page about things but not literally indistinguishable. That probably meant they were safe.

“Hang on,” the words from the computer interrupted Jason’s train of thought. Alternate Tim, Red Robin. “If your Jason went straight from Robin to Jayhawk and hasn’t changed since, then who’s the ‘Red Hood’ that keeps turning up in all these cases? And why’s he been operating so long? Don’t tell me the Joker swapped sides and you’ve just been letting him run Crime Alley.”

The temperature dropped.

No one talked about the Joker, not really. Not in years.

To this day, his death was something of a sore point for the original Dynamic Duo. Jason knew where he stood on the matter, but there was no point starting a fight over it, not unless Dick really wanted to push on why he didn’t trust Hood with any of his siblings.

So why did it sound like this other Tim thought the Joker was alive?

Their Tim clicked open the file, and Alvin’s masked face filled the monitor. “The Red Hood, a.k.a. Alvin Draper has been operating for almost a decade now. He started making waves in Crime Alley before debuting officially by murdering the Joker on live television, and ever since he’s been a big player in the Gotham underground. He’ll lend a hand sometimes, but he’ll just as often blow something up to act as a distraction if he doesn’t like an investigation. By day, Draper runs a medical research company with multiple production labs in the city and a prominent IT division that donates labour to small businesses across Gotham. He’s got a good dozen other investments and corporations, most linked to aliases, though that he owns them is an open secret. By most recent estimates, he’s got at least two precincts on his payroll and he and Gordon have been in a kind of cold war about controlling police patrols in his territory for years. Draper is-“

“Not real,” Red Robin interrupted.

“Excuse me?” Their Tim sounded offended, and honestly Jason agreed. Who did this guy think he was deciding who was and wasn’t real?

Apparently even Bruce agreed, finally breaking the stalemate and stepping towards the workstation. “Alvin Draper is very much a real person. He’s been both a help and a hinderance on countless cases, and I’ve personally spoken with him both in and out of costume-“

“Yeah, yeah, I’m sure that’s all true,” Red Robin waved off the sentiments. “I’m not denying that there’s a guy running around doing all of that, but I’m telling you that that’s not a name that belongs to a real person. It’s an alias I’ve been using since I was fourteen. If you’ve got someone claiming to be Alvin Draper on your hands, what you’ve actually got is a Tim Drake that is lying to you.

“And has been for ten years apparently, wow.” Red Robin blinked. “Good for him, I guess, though not so much on the very prolific murder.”

“Oh you’ve got to be fucking kidding me,” Jason’s double said, dismissive and cold and so fucking sure of himself. “You’re telling me that even across universes you’re stealing my shit? What this guy crossed dimensions and decided to try being a crime lord for the fun of it?”

His words were tacks under Jason’s skin. What the fuck did any of these people know about Alvin?

“You don’t get to talk about him like that,” he snapped. That red helmet caught the glare of the overhead halogens like a warning light.

“Just look at him,” Red Robin waved at the monitor and then back to himself. “That’s literally me in six years and a domino mask. Sure, the beard hides the jawline a bit and I think he’s got some light contour on his cheekbones or something, but it’s not like we don’t know how to recognize someone in a disguise. That’s literally my face.”

Tim grimaced, shifting uncomfortably. “I did notice he kinda looks like me back when I was younger. But I looked into it, and it just turned out he was my dad’s illegitimate brother-”

Bruce stepped closer, getting a hand on Tim’s shoulder and Jason’s gut twisted. “I found those records as well, some of them paper copies down at the city archives with all the hallmarks of original documents-“

“But if we’re looking at an alternate version of Tim Drake,” the Bat in black caught the thought mid-train.  “Then he may very well have planted those records years ago to handle the inevitable questions that would emerge from sharing a face with an actual resident of this universe.”

“Or maybe he just exists here! Maybe that’s the big differentiating factor between our universe and yours; that to you Alvin a lie but here he’s real,” Jason exploded. It wasn’t true, it wasn’t. He’d known Alvin for years, grown up with him always there in the background even after they lost touch, Alvin hadn’t been lying to him all that time. Not about something as fundamental as his identity.

Right?

Nightwing, not theirs but the one with the heavier gauntlets and the extra inch of lift in his boots, rolled his shoulders casually. “Well there’s an easy way to find out. Bring him here, grab a few samples, and test not just for the genetic match to the Timbos here, but also for any lingering magic or transdimensional radiation that might suggest he’s not supposed to be here. Anyone got his number?”

All eyes turned to Jason, which he kind of resented. It wasn’t like Cass and Alvin hadn’t gotten close during her run as Red Robin. He was pretty sure they still texted, whereas he and Alvin has been rocky for a long time. He knew he could rely on Hood if he really needed help, but Alvin was always unwilling to push for any kind of closeness and Jason had never quite managed to purge the slimy guilt that came from spending too much time with him. It wasn’t fair that he got to do that when others couldn’t, wasn’t fair that Alvin prioritized his wants and needs when there were people that needed him out there.

He did still have his number, though.

Maybe calling would help, would get Alvin in here and he could prove that he wasn’t secretly Tim Drake and this was all a big misunderstanding. He could be a Martian in deep cover or something, or he was a rapidly aged clone, or maybe he was just a guy who looked kind of similar to Tim.

Maybe he hadn’t lied to Jason.

There really was only one good way to find out. So he pulled out his phone and dialed.

Maybe it was going to be okay.

[aikoiya]

DC AU - Bruce the Burdened

You know, I wonder how Bruce would've turned out if his parents never died. And if he himself hadn't died like that one universe where Thomas became Batman & Martha became the Joker.

Which, I have thoughts on.

But that's for later.

Generally, I think that he would've just been Bruce from the Animated Series, but with only small hints of Batman in there every once in a while.

Like, he's Bruce, but not the oblivious, idiot Brucie Bruce. More so the Bruce from the animated series but with Batman's innate competence. Because Batman wouldn't exist, at least not yet, he doesn't need to distance himself from it, so he's free to be as intelligent as he truly is.

Now, this is the product of my Legacy 2 idea, which you can find here:

You will have to read the link if you actually wanna understand where I'm coming from here.

But anyway, the idea is that instead of becoming Batman, he sorta becomes a warden of Gotham. He learns the apotropaic magics of his family like he was always meant to & maintains the seals & wards like the Waynes who came before him. He sort of becomes a magic user/supernatural hunter.

However, that doesn't stop all of the problems that continue to show itself in the Batman continuity. Like, the villains might not be the same as in the original.

For one, there's no Joker because there's no Batman.

There's also the fact that Mrs. Fries didn't get Huntington's Chorea, her husband did. So, we get Mrs. Freeze instead.

Harley & Bruce become besties, even date for a bit, but even after breaking it off, they stay besties.

Keep in mind that the Batman Rogues Gallery is still out there basically in tact, just without Batman, so Bruce sees what's happening with his home & comes to the conclusion that he can't just work from the shadows anymore. So, as a teenager, he runs away from home & goes on the same training journey as in canon, but this time, the fuel isn't to avenge, but to save.

As such, when he comes back, he becomes the Nightengale in honor of his ancestry.

He has more of a focus on magic, but that doesn't stop his use of gadgets. Even inventing a sort of magi-tech.

Either way, he's a much more lighthearted hero here. Like, he's still dark & brooding, but not as much as in canon. He actually smiles every once in a while.

Then, he begins collecting kids, but he's got his parents to help him along the way. When Jason comes along, Thomas tells Bruce outright that he shouldn't just give the name Robin to the boy without Dick's permission. It's his title, given to him by his mother. That Bruce has no right to take that from him. So, Jason goes by the name Cardinal because they symbolize strength, courage, & loyalty. However, there is a secondary symbolism that comes in later.

If the guy who became Joker still becomes a villain, it won't be because of Bruce. So, it won't be Joker & more than likely, he'll stick with og Red Hood.

If dude gets as bad as Joker it'll be due to his own choices.

However, if Red Hood ends up killing Jason, then, due to Bruce not having been traumatized at such a young age, he won't even hesitate.

That's the last the world sees of Red Hood, period. Whether it was by the Nightengale's own hands or by him simply turning a blind eye when Nightwing did it to avenge Jason is entirely up to the writer.

At the same time, because of the presence of his parents, he's able to understand shit better & the name on the headstone is written Jason Todd-Wayne.

However, because Robin is not just a symbol here, Tim has to choose his own name too.

When Jason comes back, his vigilante name comes with an entirely new meaning because it's said that when you see a cardinal, it means that the spirit of a dead loved one has come to visit. This one just happened to be very angry & aggressive.

I also feel like due to Bruce being more well-adjusted, he'd have managed to get into a legitimately steady relationship with Selena. Even married. He doesn't try to make her stop stealing, but he does ask for a compromise. Only steal from master criminals &, if she can manage, why not help him to expose their dirty dealings. After all, what better whetstone to sharpen her skills with?

Selena finds that... Yes, that is very much acceptable.

Talia still steals Bruce's DNA to create Damien & when he shows up, it creates turmoil between Bruce & Selena.

Random Stuff Masterlist

[toflyandfall]

I just saw a photo of "What persona. Dick Grayson isn't a mask. Not like Bruce Wayne is" from Detective Comics #725 and I find it interesting that Dick and the rest of the bats, with the exception of Bruce, don't wear "masks" per se. They are who they are with or without the domino mask/helmet. The only time I can really think of Dick faking things is when he pretended to be an incompetent BPD cop. How was he able to avoid creating and living, half the time, through a "persona" like "Brucie"?

Oooh, this is a lovely, meaty question.  There’s a lot more analysis of Bruce than I planned because let’s be real, it’s kinda weirder for a guy to run around with half a dozen personas than for someone else to run around as himself.  I hope you still find it interesting, but if you want to skip straight to the more Dick-centric stuff, head under the readmore.

A simple but significant factor is that Dick thrives on the company of people in a way that Bruce does not.  I suspect if you talk honestly to many introverts, you will find they too have an extroverted ‘mask’ they put on to the larger world, though probably not quite so extreme.

Another factor is that the civilian social circles Dick and Bruce travel in are vastly different.  Though they each have a reason for being in those circles, that difference itself enables Dick to escape much of the scrutiny that Bruce’s public identity undergoes, because he doesn’t frequently associate with the much more media-hounded elite.

An interesting thing here is that the large difference in social circles between their civilian lives is actually caused by their own personal similarities: they are 100% committed work-a-holics.  It’s just that they have differing civilian approaches to their goals.

I want to start with Bruce because as you point out, his use of persona is distinct among the bats and his reasons for using them in part explain why Dick and the other bats do not.

Bruce is a child of privilege, he has always lived a lifestyle of privilege, regardless of the tragedies that have occurred during it, and his default view of the world, through no fault of his own, is natively that of the extreme upper class.  This drastically influences his perspective and approach to change, and changing the world is his perpetual goal, the reason he put on the suit in the first place.

Bruce works a top-down society approach toward systemic change, and he works it all the time.  This is actually my favorite but woefully under-emphasized part of him: he is not just someone who punches people on the street ‘for justice’, he uses his company, his money, and his social position toward substantial systemic change. This post does a wonderful job covering the ways he does this through his corporations and personal wealth, as does this one.  I cannot recommend either enough because I constantly want to push even the most casual Batman fans to understand: Bruce Wayne is not just a violent punchy puncher man.  He is a traumatized person genuinely trying to use all his resources including himself to make the world safer.

Detective Comics #725

Bruce has many personas he maintains, and he uses all of them according to what suits his need--Batman for places the law can’t go, Bruce Wayne the CEO pushing for systemic changes, Matches Malone for street information, and Brucie the society high roller for society information and social influencing.  He is rarely ever not in a persona and simply ‘Bruce’.

His top-down perspective of enacting change are what dictated the usage and necessity of these personas. He has the means and capacity to basically disappear from society if he so chose--he in fact does so to train during his younger years so successfully they don’t even know how long he was actually gone. 

The Batman Files

So he doesn’t need the personas.  Not Bruce Wayne, CEO, or Brucie, or any of them really, to protect his identity.  That tells us that Brucie is a deliberate choice he made at some point.  He could have been a recluse billionaire Batman indefinitely.  Even though he fully has the status and means to not maintain a job or a persona or, let’s be frank, a life outside the mask at all, it’s his own work-a-holicness that led to the creation of his public personas.  He’s an obsessive strategist, so if Brucie is a choice, that leads us to why?

Bruce does many philanthropic things with his money, but he isn’t the only rich person around, especially not in a city as old and corrupt as Gotham.   But he’s one of the very few ones doing good with it.

The comic you mentioned has a very beautiful moment where Bruce touches on that, and in full context you can feel how consumed he is by this goal of creating the Gotham his parents would have wanted.  Batman mentions he never sees himself in that place, and the morbid interpretation is that the city kills him before he reaches it, but the hopeful interpretation is that in that shining city, Bruce Wayne and Batman and Brucie and all his masks will no longer be needed.

Detective Comics #725

Back in the old days they’d call it noblesse oblige: the inferred responsibility of privileged people to act with generosity and nobility toward those less privileged. Thomas and Martha Wayne ingrained this feeling of responsibility into Bruce by example, and as all things related to them, he obsesses over it.  It urges him to fulfill expectations within segments of society he finds onorous for the betterment of society as a whole in order to carry out their unfinished works.

Enter Brucie.

Brucie serves a two-fold purpose.  Since Bruce has chosen to maintain personas among society, it becomes a false face to justify any oddities Batman might bring into the life of Bruce Wayne by setting himself up as a eccentric, popular social scion.  But that persona itself also allows him to manipulate the upper crust of society.

I have some insider perspective on the kind of society events Brucie attends.  They’re all about the who’s who of making connections, name-dropping and networking, and unspoken class-based elitism.  Charity events among the upper class have these things at the forefront and the cause is the background.  You don’t get your hands dirty, you don’t go out and make change yourself, you pay money to be socially seen and sometimes it happens to go towards a philanthropic cause.  If you want to raise money from the rich and keep people with deep pockets coming in the door, you have to have social currency yourself. This is where, and why, Brucie comes in.  I believe Brucie ws crafted to maintain Batman’s cover but still attempt to carry on his parents’ legacy to grease the wheels of the rich in the directions he chooses: one of generosity towards those less privileged. 

Superman/Batman #51

The inevitable flaw of Bruce’s approach to his personas and their philanthropy is that in a city rife with corruption, money distributed from the top has many opportunities to disappear well before it reaches the bottom.  As in many of ways they are complements to each other, Dick’s approach balances that out, because his approach to helping his fellow man starts out at the street level...literally.

Nightwing #153 (Nightwing: The Great Leap)

Dick, we know, does not come from privilege.  His mother was from a middle class family before she joined the circus, and despite being world famous athletes, most circus workers are lower to middle class.  The people he grew up with, was comfortable with, were all working folk who expected everyone to pull their weight right alongside each other.  He enacts this everyone-together approach in almost all aspects and phases of his life. 

Batman #615

Even once he had settled into being Robin and adapted to living at the manor, he didn’t feel belonging to a culture of privilege, materialism, or high society. He preferred shotgun in the limo to chat with the driver to riding fancy in the back.  Once he was able to start making his own decisions about where and how he lived, despite having both Bruce’s money and then later inheriting a substantial amount of his own, he chose mostly lower-class communal places.

Batman Black and White #6

Dick also doesn’t see the value of throwing money at a problem when there is an option to fix it with his own hands.  We see this frequently, from building his own car instead of buying a finished one or outsourcing the work, to deciding the best way to clean out the BPD was to start at the bottom and work his way up (literally), to quitting college because his classes never got prioritized over crimesolving.  Most of his day jobs ended for similar reasons. 

Nightwing #153 (Nightwing: The Great Leap)

Despite the showmanship training, he gravitates away from spotlight on the rich and wealthy, who are notoriously the kind of people who do not get their hands dirty or go out and take care of things themselves, and prefers to find or build communities around the kind of people who do.

Finally, Dick is an extrovert.  He doesn’t need to act extroverted as Brucie does because he is extroverted.  He likes people and likes being around people.  Whether by conscious choice or not, he tends to put himself in situations where he is surrounded by people in nearly all aspects of his life.  He chooses apartment buildings whose occupants frequently pass each other on the stairs; jobs that involve interacting with many co-workers, patrons, or students; and collects superhero teammates like Boy Scout badges.  And all of these behaviors come very naturally to him.  

He doesn’t need a mask or a role or a persona for those kind of interactions; his mask is pre-supplied as “neighbor” or “co-worker” or “teacher” by the situations he puts himself in.  It helps make him an exemplary leader, because just by acting authentically to himself, he automatically builds up little communities around him any time he arrives somewhere.

Bruce, on the other hand, is an introvert.  For him, interacting with people isn’t easy, automatic, or comfortable unless it has a purpose, but as a strategist, he knows the necessity of human interaction as a catalyst to achieving dynamic change. So he adapts personas to suit people’s expectations.  Extroverts have more social currency; the life of the party can generate more resources than a brooding wallflower.  

So, it boils down to just a few elements: Dick believes in living and interacting at the street level to accomplish the things that he wants to, and he is extroverted enough that the level of social interaction that entails is not a burden to him.  He surrounds himself with the types of people he is more familiar or perhaps more comfortable with, which happens to keep him further out from the media’s eye than associating with the upper crust does. The lower profile is more incidental than intentional, but it lessens his need to have a cover story for every single bruise and lets him get away with even less of a ‘persona’.

Bruce, on the other hand, is introverted and follows a more classist view that systemic change needs to be effected from the top down.   His personas are more of a self-assumed duty than a necessity, as a way of trying to carry out his parents’ legacy.  Any of his children could have chosen to follow his path in business or the high society limelight, but the sense of obligation toward it is something personal to him that most of them don’t share.

[wesonerdy]

Regina faces off with the Evil Queen, as Killian and Emma’s engagement is put to the test. Get a sneak peek of tonight’s Once Upon a Time!

Courtesy of ABC/Jack Rowand

Oncers, the OUaT writers have done the impossible… Rumple’s redemption arc is in full effect and I can’t believe I’m on board with it!

“Ill-boding Patterns” began in Fairy Tale Land with the First Ogres War. Beowulf was leading soldiers into battle, but just as all was lost, Rumple stepped in with his Dark One magic and savedd them all from the ogres. (It turns out Rumple first took the Dark One magic in order to stop the First Ogres War and save Baelfire, anyway!)

Later at the pub during a celebratory drink with the townsfolk, Rumple was joined by Bae. Everyone was in a good mood, except for Beowulf, who was jealous. He called Rumple a coward and then accused him of using dark magic, which was true. Bae then asked Rumple to give up the dagger and magic and just live a normal life at home. Rumple agreed. Unfortunately, Bae was still picked on by other boys who accused Rumple if being a monster.

Soon, the townsfolk came to Rumple to help save them and Beowulf from a monster called Grendel. With Bae’s encouragement, they set out to find Beowulf and prove they could be heroes without dark magic.

Rumple brought the dagger anyway, but gave it to Bae who promised to stop Rumple if he went to use the dark magic. They eventually found “Grendel” in a cave… butut it turned out there was no monster! Beowulf killed the villagers and planned to frame Rumple for it so that when he killed the Dark One, he could be the hero everyone celebrated.

Bae eventually got the Dark One dagger back and in a crazy turn of events, he ordered Rumple to kill Beowulf, despite Rumple’s hesitations. This darkened Bae’s heart. But to save his son from himself and his new lust for power, Rumple gave Bae a memory potion and took the blame for Beowulf’s murder himself, even though Bae now thought his father was a real monster.

In Storybrooke, Rumple, Belle, and Blue Fairy are looking for Gideon. Rumple promised Belle that he’ll do anything to save their son.

We saw Gideon break into the sheriff’s station and steal the remainder of the broken sword he tried to kill Emma with; however Rumple intercepted him. He warned Gideon about giving into the darkness, that doing so could only lead to heartbreak and not becoming a hero.

With encouragement, Gideon told Rumple about being with the Black Fairy… how he was locked away in a dungeon and being too afraid to save another boy who the Black Fairy was beating.

Then Rumple tried to give Gideon a memory potion to rid him of the bad memories of being with the Black Fairy. It didn’t work! Gideon now had the dagger and planned to make Rumple help him kill Emma and fulfill his destiny. They would repair the sword, but needed the blood of the person who forged it, the Blue Fairy. However (like with Baelfire), to protect Gideon from snuffing out the good in his heart, Rumple interceded and took Blue’s blood himself. It repaired the sword, but Blue was sapped of her magic and in a coma.

However, would there be enough time to stop Gideon again?

Elsewhere, Alt Robin stole a box of potions from Regina’s mausoleum. Regina genuinely wanted to help him settle down in Storybrooke, but Robin was still reluctant. Instead he turned to Zelena for help to escape the town protection spell and leave Regina’s attempts at reform. Zelena agreed to help, but before they could escape (with the Evil Queen snake in tow), Regina stopped them. Robin made it very clear that he resented being on Storybrooke where Robin Hood’s legacy loomed. Alt Robin tried the anti-magic potion anyway, but it exploded back on him. Regardless, Regina promised to help Alt Robin find his happiness, even if it meant leaving Storybrooke.

Later, while drinking his sorrows away in the forest, Alt Robin was bitten by a snake… who turned out to be the Evil Queen, back in full form. Since Robin still had remnants of the anti-magic potion on his hands, when EQ bit him, she was able to strip the magic from the spell that kept her as a snake. And a new doppelganger alliance was born…

Meanwhile Killian was also drinking his sorrows away. Yes, he had permission to marry Emma, but Killian knew he was keeping the truth about Davids father’s death. He knew he should keep the secret, but in truth he was desperate to tell Emma the truth. But wouldn’t he lose her? Killian confided in Cricket who gave the advice that he owed it to the relationship to be honest.

When Killian finally went home to Emma, he planned to confess. However, she stopped him before he could do so. Emma had found the engagement ring and thought Killian was proposing! So Killian got down on one knee and asked Emma to marry him. Yes there were secrets, but it still was the most beautiful moment when she said yes and he put the ring on her finger!

Do #CaptainSwan have a happy ending in sight? pic.twitter.com/l1WXYqSYAd

— Once Upon A Time (@OnceABC) March 20, 2017

  Some other observations:

Beowulf’s sword (Hrunting) is the same sword Gideon plans to use to kill Emma!

Is Rumple seriously every iconic villain?! He’s the Beast (to Belle’s Beauty), he’s Captain Hook’s nemesis the Crocodile, and now it turns out that Rumple is really Grendel!

  In tonight’s episode “Page 23” (written by David H. Goodman and Brigitte Hales, directed by Kate Woods):

REGINA FACES-OFF AGAINST THE EVIL QUEEN, AS HOOK’S AND EMMA’S ENGAGEMENT IS TESTED—Believing there isn’t room in Storybrooke for both her and Regina, the Evil Queen sets out to eliminate her other half using Robin to bait the trap. Hook, determined to make things work with Emma, turns to his old friend Capt. Nemo for advice, but Gideon torpedoes his plan before he’s able to set things right. In a flashback to the Enchanted Forest, the Evil Queen learns a surprising lesson about the true source of her misery. (via ABC)

Take a look at two clips from the upcoming show. In the first, Emma shares her good news about the recent engagement… but then we get the bad news that EQ has escaped. And in the second video, a flashback, the Evil Queen’s hunt for Snow White takes her to a small village. But her father tries to convince her to show mercy.

Regina's news about the Evil Queen puts everyone's happiness for Emma on pause. pic.twitter.com/czeRWgFFRZ

— Once Upon A Time (@OnceABC) March 25, 2017

The Evil Queen has malicious plans for Snow White except there's one problem… #OnceUponaTime pic.twitter.com/OnmdmYHk7J

— Once Upon A Time (@OnceABC) March 23, 2017

  So… I’m all for a CaptainSwan wedding as soon as humanly possible, but until Killian tells Emma the truth, things feel so tenuous!

Check out 15 images from “Page 23” and live tweet Once Upon a Time with me at 8pm ET on ABC over at @WeSoNerdy!

Courtesy of ABC/Jack Rowand

Courtesy of ABC/Jack Rowand

Courtesy of ABC/Jack Rowand

Courtesy of ABC/Jack Rowand

Courtesy of ABC/Jack Rowand

Courtesy of ABC/Jack Rowand

Courtesy of ABC/Jack Rowand

Courtesy of ABC/Jack Rowand

Courtesy of ABC/Jack Rowand

Courtesy of ABC/Jack Rowand

Courtesy of ABC/Jack Rowand

Courtesy of ABC/Jack Rowand

Courtesy of ABC/Jack Rowand

Courtesy of ABC/Jack Rowand

Courtesy of ABC/Jack Rowand

PREVIEW: ‘Once Upon a Time’ Season 6, Episode 14 “Page 23” Regina faces off with the Evil Queen, as Killian and Emma's engagement is put to the test.

[soleminisanction]

What kind of Lanterns do you think the Batfam are? I would pin most of them as Green lanterns but I'm curious about what you think

Green Lanterns is a good fit for any of them, I agree. You don't work your way into fighting toe-to-toe with the superpowered types without some serious willpower. Bruce, Babs and Duke I think fit that ring best out of all of them, though.

Outside of that, Dick would also be the perfect fit as a Blue Lantern -- preferably with the awkward "holiest beings in the universe" caveat ignored like they did with Barry Allen, although I could absolutely see circumstances coming together to make him a literal martyr. I honestly think he's the only one in the family who 100% suits the role as a symbol of hope and inspiration, and anyone who says otherwise is frankly just lying, to either themselves or to you.

Jason as a Red Lantern is kind of an obvious cliche but it really does suit him, given how much his struggle with anger issues has played into his character over the years. But I could also see him as a very effective Yellow Lantern, as he's probably the protoge who most often makes use of the "Put fear into the hearts of criminals" side of their arsenal.

Likewise, Cass would make a very talented Yellow Lantern, as she can be terrifying... but it would make her miserable, she'd absolutely hate it. If we ignore the What the Fuck is Your Problem Geoff Johns aspects of the Indigo Tribe, she'd be much happier and a much better fit drawing on compassion with them.

Ditto Tim, who I personally would peg for compassion before willpower if, again, the Indigo Tribe wasn't weird for no reason. (Seriously Johns, did you really need to add a mind control/brainwashing aspect to both the love and the compassion corps??) You could also make a decent case for him falling in with the Star Sapphires, especially a lot of them are specifically motivated by lost love and if a ring happened to be looking, say, around the time he'd lost a half-dozen loved ones in rapid succession and was desperately trying to clone Kon back to life... it could work.

Finally, and this is going to be controversial, but while Damian is ultimately another of the ones who favors Green over all the rest, I think he'd be at real risk, in his darkest moments, of falling victim to the Orange Lantern Corps. Because while he can be short-tempered, anger isn't really what drives him. Pride is, and jealousy, and the iron-hard belief that certain things are his by right. It's not enough for him to be a Robin, he has to be the Robin. It's not enough for Bruce to be Damian's father, he has to be only Damian's father, no adoptions allowed. Gotham and Robin and being a Bat all only matter to him because, in his mind, they're his legacy. Even the way he loves can be greedy -- the way he collects pet after after pet after pet just because he wants them, the way he needs Dick to reassure that he'll always be his Batman, and on, and on.

You get my point. It'd definitely be a fall to the dark side for Damian and, like I said, I think he's ultimately a Green at heart, but the potential is there.