#the amount of infodumping. the amount of autism (affectionate)

[cattestrophic]

Screaming crying throwing up (came up with an absolutely gutwrenching plotpoint and dialogue exchange but has not hope of explaining WHY it's so fucked up to anyone)

[antlerkitty]

Non-stereotypical things I experience as a lifelong higher support needs autistic to show you that every autist is different! (Please please add with your autism things that are non-traditional/stereotypical!)

Love people and humanity and can be very very friendly and often want to be affectionate to people, even strangers/those I barely know, often wave at people, generally extremely enjoy socializing in small/mild amounts with social supports

Good at detecting sarcasm and pretty good at sarcastic/"deadpan" humor

I don't go on long infodump rambles to most people, but instead often reference my special interests in conversations and think about them most of the time (suspect this is due to trauma)

Eye contact lover (tend to stare at people's eyes/face area for entire conversation, and enjoy it, and eye contact is a form of expressing love for me), only exception is that am unable to look at people or even physically face them when uncomfortable

Love being "part of the group" and valued member, but need to be treated differently than the other members due to cognitive/social/sensory issues and being semiverbal

Suspect part of the reason I need to use a cane is autism (not comorbidity like dyspraxia, but genuinely just autism on it's own)

Love to observe people and learn their unique body language (though have hard time actually adjusting behavior to it outside of trauma response)

[aroaceleovaldez]

do you have any other pjo alter human hcs? 👀

Yes!

Leo being dragonkin and Jason being a wolf therian are my two main ones. Like i mentioned in that other post, I imagine Leo's is more spiritual-origin and Jason's is specifically more psychological-origin from being raised by Lupa's pack. I already went over some of the dragonkin!Leo ones in the previous post so I'll focus more on the wolf therian Jason ones here- (under a cut for length)

Because all the Romans are trained by the wolves, plus a small friendly monster population in New Rome that includes dog-headed people, Jason just. does not think twice at all about identifying so strongly as a wolf. He just presumes that's a normal thing. Everybody else just thinks he's being Very Roman so they don't question it either. It probably isn't until he goes to CHB that he realizes not everybody feels like that.

That doesn't stop him and Leo from having a conversation about feeling like a wolf/dragon respectively and continuing to presume that it's totally not an identity thing they're gonna be thinking about A Lot later on and either Everybody Just Feels Like That or they're both just got the same oddly specific unique thing going on (it's not like it'd be the only thing - they're also both Hera's champions. maybe it's just a champions of Hera thing). It's fine, they'll figure it out eventually. Piper is extremely confused about what they're going on about though.

Jason is excited a very normal amount about the concept of werewolves. He's totally not mad that he wasn't able to defeat Lycaon in battle and gain shapeshifting powers. Definitely not. He's also definitely not jealous of Frank for having shapeshifting powers, or jealous that Nico and Reyna got to fight the lycanthropes more.

Leo is also immensely jealous of Frank's shapeshifting and is heavily considering trying to bargain with the gods to swap his fire powers for that.

Jason has an encyclopedic knowledge of like every werewolf myth from different mythologies and folktales and he WILL excitedly infodump about them.

The Greco-roman werewolf myths may have not turned out for him, but the minute Jason finds out that Norse myths are on the table he's begging Annabeth if they can go visit her cousin. For science. Just to see if the Norse werewolf myths are any better. By the gods he will figure out if safely and ethically becoming a wolf is possible somehow. (He has definitely also asked Reyna to use Circe magic to turn him into a wolf before. Up to interpretation how that went down.)

Jason using claw weapons!!!!! He definitely has fought with his teeth before but he gets his hands on some nice hefty and sturdy claws and he is THRIVING with them. If he could get some sort of teeth armor/weapon to use too, he would. Unfortunately that one's a bit harder to get so his real teeth will have to do for now, when an option. (He definitely bit Krios and is 100% up for using his teeth in a fight you cannot convince me otherwise)

Speaking of biting - Jason is a biter, just in general. He affectionately chews on/nips at his friends as both an oral stim AuDHD thing and a 'kin thing. Also playfighting/sparring with them. He'd probably get into quadrobics and parkour as well if given the opportunity.

Leo's not so much into that sort of very active stuff (or very platonically affectionate stuff). He's mostly hanging out with his hoard of machinery in his den Bunker 9. They're still shiny things, they're still his hoard. He's a bit more territorial of Bunker 9 than he'd like to admit since it's his space (also combo dragonkin brain/autism stuff) but trying to explain why is way too much of a headache for him, and most people stay out of there anyways so it doesn't come up much which is fine by him.

In terms of more dragonkin-affirming activities though, despite his aversion to fire, Leo's fallen asleep in a fireplace/bed of coals/etc a couple of times in his life and he will never admit how comfortable and affirming that was for him. He does also generally feel a bit better about his fire powers if it's just the fire-resistance part, or if he's breathing fire specifically (because also it's just cool, and how can he not feel like a badass super big and strong dragon when he's literally breathing fire?) (that time in BoO he totally let loose his fire and turned into functionally a supernova of flames was also weirdly affirming for him and he doesn't know what to do with that information). He's also probably tried making arm stilts before, just to see what they're like, and if he could improve the design at all to feel and look more natural.

...Atypical pronoun sets? Atypical pronoun sets. It'd probably be awhile before they actually start using them, but I think both Leo and Jason might vibe at least a lil with he/its for otherkin/therian reasons. Leo also probably dre/drem/dris. I also think Jason would particularly vibe with wolfgender. He didn't know that was an option and once he does he really likes it. (Also have you seen the masc wolfgender flag? Look at that and tell me that's not Jason.)

Camp Jupiter probably has more alterhuman folks than CHB, just in terms of population sizes and also just given how they're trained/raised it probably comes up more over there. This does somehow simultaneously make Jason more convinced that it's just an average thing but also less aware that being otherkin/a therian is even a thing.

My friend and I have talked a lot about the absolute weirdness potential that might occur with being an alterhuman demigod. Can you imagine being some creature from mythology and then finding out not only do they actually exist in that exact moment in your world, but also they will try to hunt you down? Something something intense alterhuman linguistic debates about if you're a mythological monster does that qualify more as therian or otherkin (based on the proposed delineation of therian = real world creatures / otherkin = mythological/legendary/etc)? (second philosophical/linguistic debate happening in the background of feral/animalistic = therian / less feral/animalistic = otherkin delineation but if that monster was originally a mortal then which do they qualify as?) (third conference happening behind that one of demigods journaling their experiences as monsters who were originally mortals and how that impacts them as demigods.) The awkwardness that must exist from being like hydrakin or something and then having to fight a hydra. Or being a different kind of hydra than exists in the riordanverse (or, weirder, being hydrakin but Monster Donut hydra specifically and having to explain your odd inexplicable connection to donuts before you figure out that's a thing).

Again: Leo making 'kin gear for demigodsssss. Maybe he's the one who makes the claw weapons for Jason, who knows.

For other major characters: Annabeth would definitely be totally fascinated by daemonism and probably experiment with it at least a bit. Nico I could see vibing with voidpunk. Hazel I could also see vibing with just general label alterhuman relating to her whole being-revivied-from-the-dead situation. Maybe same for Thalia for the same reasons, or Thalia even vibing with being like dryad-hearted/kith due to the whole pine tree thing.

I got another ask about this so there will be more headcanons along these lines soon as well.

[turneverybodyintopuppets]

Hi. The following is my attempt to systematically hash out the “Mr. Infodump” controversy in the TS fandom. It’s primarily for my benefit, but I’m posting it on the off chance it helps someone else who’s just as confused/dismayed as I was. I’m not attempting to argue for blind absolution (”Thomas is an angel who can do no wrong!”) or cancellation (“He’s no better than the likes of J.K. Rowling!”), just to present as intellectually honest an assessment as I can make of what happened and the degree to which the TS team is responsible.

Laconic: Thomas Sanders, a content creator on youtube, posted a skit in which a character calls an aspie-coded character “Mr. Infodump”. Several fans have expressed hurt and anger over the use of a trait associated with neurodivergence as an insult.

My own initial impression: I’m on the autism spectrum myself, and personally, “Mr. Infodump” didn’t register as offensive to me; in fact, as a huge Logan kinnie, I liked that a neurodiverse trait I see in myself was being explicitly linked to my favorite character. That said, there are many in the community who feel deeply hurt and betrayed, and it would be a) irresponsible and b) close-minded to handwave their concerns. Thus:

[Abridged version: Bolded]

Context for use of the word:

Line from Roman: “I was going for regal sophistication [in last commercial pitch], but Mr. Infodump over here [*gestures to Logan*] wasn’t cooperating.” Defensive tone, alluding to the fact that Logan’s commercial pitch included excessive product information that would leave buyers disengaged.

History: Roman regularly invents nicknames for fellow sides and employs them in a manner that can range from fond teasing to a juvenile way of insulting the side he’s presently bickering with.

Names previously directed at Logan include “Calculator watch,” “Egghead,” and “No-Funsen Honeydew… Doo.” They generally play off of Logan’s tendency toward being uptight, stereotypically nerdy, and eager to furnish the group with information in the capacity of a teacher.

In this particular instance, I doubt anyone would say the word’s use was “malicious,” but it wasn’t “affectionate” either. Roman is visibly preoccupied and defensive in the scene, throwing out a nickname offhand.

Power Dynamic: There is no imbalance of power between Logan and Roman that would indicate anything resembling a bully-victim relationship. Logan responds to the word in the same manner he does Roman’s other antics and displays no particularly hurt reaction.

In-Universe Response: No character corrects or condemns Roman’s use of the term. This may, however, be because Logan is the first to respond, armed with his own complaints about the others’ commercials.

Meta-Level Implications: The audience is not encouraged to agree with Roman’s sentiment that infodumping is a negative trait anymore than they are his other commentary on Logan via nicknames like “Egghead,” because Logan’s role in the story consistently proves it wrong; all that infodumping saved an unconscious Roman from his murder-happy brother, for one, and the audience knows it. Given the posturing and defensiveness that accompany Roman’s delivery of the line, it’s clear the creators were communicating that he was in the wrong to say it. That, and Logan will almost certainly reinforce this by verbally decimating someone in the next episode, as per usual.

I think that last point is key. People will accuse others of infodumping in a negative way IRL—I know I’ve been called far worse for failing to mask—and to pretend that such things don’t exist in fiction is misrepresenting reality. Instead, creators can and should include minority characters (race, sexuality, gender, neuroatypicality, etc.) *confronting* discrimination, dealing with it complexly, and showing both the misguided character and the audience how wrong they are. Logan resonates with me—and other aspies, I think—largely because of how he clearly struggles in dealing with the other sides’ occasional criticism of his eccentricities, but he ultimately remains committed to his identity and ideals. If the TS crew continues to write a show that reinforces the fact that his neurodivergent qualities are what make him strong—and god knows there's not much media that does this well—, they’re doing something incredibly important for us.

The issue here, then, wasn’t the show promoting ableism as a message, because its handling of the conversation here doesn’t. Rather, it was the use of a term that many consider inherently ableist as an insult. So:

“Infodump” the word:

I find this fascinating, actually—Science is discovered. Math is discovered**. Language? Language is unequivocally invented. We’ve create these words with combinations of mouth-sounds, and we’ve assigned them meaning.

But the thing is, people have different backgrounds and experiences that define both who they are and the nuances of the meaning they tie to those mouth-sounds

Basic example of varied mental prototypes: I live in the northeast USA, so when I hear the word “bird,” the first thing that pops into my head is a bluejay or robin. If you ask my friend who’s studying in Brazil, though, he’d likely think of a macaw or toucan. 

For me, “spring” = my mom’s pink zinnia garden and “chocolate” = a square of hershey melting against gooey marshmallow. This idea of memories and experience informing word-meaning mapping, of course, extends to a) more nuanced concepts and b) a more subconscious level of understanding. Poetry in particular, I think, tends to play with this to invoke the sensory experiences it does... I could infodump about translated poetry but that’s a whoooollleee other thing and I’m getting off track.

But essentially, an individual’s experience of any given word, to a degree, is subjective. Our dictionary definitions are merely approximations of a collective understanding of that mouthsound-to-meaning mapping, and we have to update those definitions as language evolves (remember when “Google” couldn’t be used as a verb?)

So, what happens if I look up “infodumping”? TVTropes tells me it’s a “type of exposition that’s particularly long and wordy”. UrbanDictionary says its “used to deposit large amounts (usually entire articles) of information in online forums without summarizing or paraphrasing the information.” I reach the resources that explain it in the context of autism and ADHD over halfway down the Google results. The word “infodumping” has quite a few circulating meanings, and the one associated with neurodivergence isn’t as visible as we’d like it to be.

From what I understand, Thomas Sanders and co. merely knew “infodumping” as the practice of talking at length about a subject, like closing a rant with a friendly “aw, sorry for infodumping on ya” and such. This was exactly how Logan opens his commercial, so they stuck it in as a—frankly, kinda feeble—nickname á la the creative genius behind “Mr. Smarty... Pants”. They had no knowledge of the term’s gravity to the autism and ADHD community, because they haven’t been exposed to settings that use that definition.

So, where does that leave us on accountability? If they’re ultimately not producing ableist content, do Thomas Sanders and his team have the responsibility to be aware of how an insult featuring this particular word might be inherently triggering to a community?

Many accounts show that the inclusion of the term caused real emotional harm and as content creators—particularly ones with a relatively young fanbase—the TS team should have taken more precautions. A more diverse staff/writing room may have caught this, given how egregious some fanders found the error. Furthermore, why shouldn’t it fall on neurotypical people in general to “educate themselves” on these issues, as in the cases of other minority groups?

That said, however, can any creative team be reasonably expected to know of any-and-all potentially triggering content? I’ve avoided speaking of Thomas Sanders’ personal character to maintain some impartiality, but a long history of promoting representation and careful content warnings does suggest a genuine commitment to self-correcting. Accepting the well-intentioned criticism of fanders—many of whom are so broken up by this precisely because of the amount of faith they place in the TS team—and taking active steps to change is ultimately the best course of action, and I, for one, will be sticking around to see the results.

[atricksterproblem]

Unpopular Headcanons: The Papas supporting someone with autism

Having read the excellent post by @ask-the-clergy-bc regarding the Ghost boys and autism, I thought I’d take a stab at summarizing some of my headcanons for the Papas on this topic. I’ll leave Copia to those who know him better there, but I’ll put this out there in case anybody is interested.

Papa I - being on the spectrum himself, he understands your challenges and strengths very well. This Papa is excellent company when you don’t want to be alone but don’t want the stress of social interactions--you can pursue your interests quietly together in the same room without there being any pressure to talk. He will, if given any opportunity, infodump about his special interests to you (gardening or Satanic religion and philosophy primarily), and is very good at returning the favor by listening to you in turn. He tends to be a peaceful, soothing presence as a general rule, so if you’re overwhelmed, you might find his workspace to be a good retreat.

Papa II - In public, he’s known for being taciturn and, when he does speak, often blunt. If you tend to be quiet around other people, or if you have times when you’re nonverbal, he’ll be very understanding and not pressure you to interact beyond what you’re comfortable with. He also appreciates people who are direct, so if you’re someone who has trouble filtering what you say for social purposes, he’ll be more patient with your style than some others might. He has learned a certain amount about how to support someone with autism from observing his older brother, and he will be willing to do the same for others that he cares about.

Papa III - The youngest Emeritus is also neurodivergent. He has ADHD, so you may find that you have traits in common depending on how your autism manifests. Since he’s had to live with being different himself, he’ll be very sympathetic about your own experience. He is particularly good at taking care of someone who’s had a meltdown or is on the verge of one, getting you to a quiet, safe place for some down time. He has an affectionate nature, so if being held helps you, he’s more than happy to oblige. He’s as comfortable with talking about whatever’s bothering you as he is with silent support.

While he is a talker and very much the extrovert, he’s also caring, so he’s good at supporting someone he loves even if they have a very different basic temperament. If you have to be in difficult social situations, he’ll be there to support you whenever he can. If you find yourself at a crowded party where you’re expected to make small talk, he’ll casually pick up the slack for you without calling attention to it and give you a break if you need one. Set up some predetermined signals for the two of you so you can let him know if you have to find a quiet place or do some other kind of self-care away from the crowds.

This Papa has some stims--he often needs something to do with his hands, so he has some small puzzles and stim toys. He enjoys certain textures--fabrics like silk and velvet appeal to him in particular. If you have the kind of stims that are helped by toys, he’ll want to get some for you as well.

He also has very little in the way of a verbal filter much of the time, so if you’re prone to saying things that other people find inappropriate, he’s much more likely to just laugh it off.  He’ll appreciate your uniqueness and encourage you to fly your freak flag with as much openness as you like.