#the coffee discourse

[vyeoh]

I have to say, as much as I love the fix-its and the spiked coffee theory, the part of me that's the queer kid living in a homophobic and sometimes manipulative household wants to watch Aziraphale make that mistake fully on his own and grow from it

[essektheylyss]

I do find the uptick in folks who got upset that some of us felt like there wasn't enough follow-through on narrative consequences suddenly turning around wanting the Hells to be hunted by Vasselheim very funny, because I'm just like... so what I'm hearing is that you want your faves to be on the run from religious leaders because the choices they made had such massive ramifications and so aggressively spurned that religion it demanded exile if not outright execution, because it makes for a more interesting story with more interesting characters.

I understand the canary in the role mine now: you're jealous of me. You want what the Essek stans have.

[transman-badass]

I hope everyone who's ever said they'd punch a Nazi gets the chance to prove it.

I hope everyone who's ever said "protect trans kids" put their money where their mouth is.

I hope everyone who has ever caused discourse and division in the queer community shuts the fuck up and stop doing the feds work for them.

I hope the world that's born when this one burns down is kind.

[enlitment]

I don't want to sound like an apologist for anything but I feel like it should be acknowledged that the question of morality in different periods of history is complex and not easy to answer.

If you do say things like 'marrying an underaged person was totally okay back in the 1700s so what they did was totally fine actually' it definitely does ring alarm bells (as it should!)

That is not the exactly the same thing as saying 'considering the historical context of the era this person lived in, their behaviour would have likely not been considered too far out of the ordinary'. And I believe you can probably replace this with people's views of slavery or domestic violence and get to a pretty similar thing.

Is it dark and depressing? Sure. It's also, to the best of my knowledge, often fairly accurate.

I mean, I would have to do an actual research on this particular question to make any more definite statements. But just look at Ancient Greece's societal norms concerning relationships. That is definitely a challenge any historian needs to grapple with, but saying that every other man living at that time was a monster just isn't very useful, and doesn't feel like great academic work either.

Sometimes you would need to take a step back and try to look at these issues with more of a dispassionate curiosity to try and understand them. (As with Ancient Greece - what role did these relationships serve? How did they influence Greek culture? The structure of Greek society? etc.) That doesn't mean you renounce your own sense of right and wrong.

I feel like the best approach would be to acknowledge your modern perspective and clearly mark it in the text (something like 'by our modern standards, this would of course be seen as...' or even focus on writing articles from the perspective of the affected/opressed). But then also write about the way such behaviour would have been viewed in the time it took place. This does not, in my opinion, excuse the behaviour - it just helps to put it in the necessary context.

The bonus of this approach is that it allows the historian to highlight when someone's behaviour is genuinely considered morally reprehensible even by the standards of the time (something like 'even in a misogynistic society, his treatment of women was marked as particularly reprehensible' -> well better than that but it's also midnight, I'm tired and I'm sure you get my point).

There is also the possibility that some behaviour that is considered totally okay today will be seen as completely reprehensible by someone reporting on it hundreds of years from now. Something to keep in mind as a historian.

TL;DR definitely don't want to excuse any problematic behaviour but I think we should treat the question of moral norms in history as the complex and difficult issue it is, rather than jumping to conclusions

(also saying that someone's opinion is automatically unworthy because they haven't taken history classes at a university level just feels kind of elitist. Sure, an understanding of historiography and a critical approach are incredibly important, but it is not impossible to get at least the basic idea just from your own reading. And in any case, it is better to explain it rather than to dismiss the person's opinion altogether.)

[katabay]

some kind of. miscellaneous conversation sometime during ac3?? this was actually part of a much longer scene that went in a more serious direction than I originally planned once I started drawing it. I ended up starting over, but I couldnt bring myself to delete the pages I had already started (which is why the dialogue's a little janky bc I decided to redo it before I got to the lettering stage RIP) so I cleaned them up a bit to post :') get some sleep, desmond.

[nepenthe-of-the-nutcracker]

Since they don't regularly drink coffee in Clonmel, It's possible Halt didn't even really know what it was until he met Pritchard

[sdv-confessions]

Nothing screams misogyny more than a Sebastian stan who does everything in their power to make Abigail miserable.

.

[raybeam-littlebean]

I think Tim would think me a disgrace if he knew how I did my coffee.

I know it must be a fanon joke that he loves coffee, but it's my joke and I love it.

The way I do coffee is more or less like this:

If I actually remember, I'll make coffee in a coffee maker and then put that coffee in the fridge to cool over night.

In the morning, I take it out and either put it in a cup or my thermos. Coating the sides with Hershey chocolate and caramel syrup.

With 3-4 scoops of sugar, tablespoons I think is the scooper I use.

I then put like, a little bit of coffee creamer in there, but just enough to get the good taste. I have caramel creamer this time around, it's good.

And then, the rest of the way, I fill with whole milk to make the creamer go a longer ways.

There's about 2-3 cups of coffee in that thermos and the rest is creamer and whatever the fuck I put in there.

My brother, a chronic coffee drinker, refuses to be around me when I make said coffee or drink it because I'm just "wasting coffee". I feel like Tim would have the same reaction.

[ingravinoveritas]

Firstly i dont think she adjusted since moving to the UK what do u think?

And secondly this post feels that its all about her again like and the character is based on her in real life but the project was longed talk about in 2017 as michael said on the Graham norton show to which michael was with Sarah at that point. It's again trying to be the centre of attention again and stay irrelevant just cos she not getting it from michael

What ur thoughts on this recent of post of Al

So, apologies that it took me all week to answer this--I feel like the entirety of the month of February has just caught up with me, which essentially feels like a lot of tiredness hitting all at once.

I did see this on Monday, however, and I just...am again at something of a loss. I got a bit down on myself over my response to her Insta story from the first preview of Nye and thinking I was overreacting/reading too much into things...and then this happens.

The first thing I would say is that I agree with you that AL is making it all about her again. The post itself comes across as PR, which it likely was because Georgia also shared the same clip that day--albeit with a caption that was actually about Michael/centered on the show. And the contrast becomes even more stark when you look at this post from Caroline Sheen. Caroline is Michael's cousin and she had a small role in The Way, and her post is much more personal and essentially what you would expect from someone who is close to someone in the production. Which subsequently makes AL's post look even more like PR in comparison.

But I think what irritates me the most about Anna's post is that it's yet another instance of her making a dig at Wales. Talking of patterns as I tend to do, she did this previously in September of last year (the #FromManhattantoTonypandy hashtag), and in both of these cases it's her reminding everyone of where she lived before, and likely where she still wishes she lived. In thinking of your initial question, AL may have adjusted to Wales in some ways, but it's clearly not where she belongs or thinks she belongs. I've written previously on my blog about her likely thinking she would be living the celebrity life in New York or London, and Wales was almost certainly a place she didn't even know existed until Michael. So this entire post feels like it's tinged with passive-aggressive resentment as a result.

Let me be clear: In no way do I think that moving to a new country is an easy thing, and it is more than understandable that someone might not love every single thing about the place in which they live, especially if they are an outsider coming from a completely different culture. But the thing is, The Way is literally about Wales. It is entirely focused on Welsh identity and history, and it is a project into which Michael has poured a tremendous amount of his passion and energy and time, which speaks to what you mentioned about him talking about this since 2017.

Why, then, would you make such a snarky comment on a post promoting a show so centered on Wales? That your own partner directed, no less? At best, it comes across as thoughtless and self-centered, and at worst, as deliberately disrespectful.

I can also fully understand why Michael put out a tweet of his own promoting the second episode less than an hour after Anna posted that story. If we are to say that Georgia is a good representative for David on social media--which she arguably is, most of the time--then Anna, by contrast, is the worst possible representative for Michael. And a post like the one above only further highlights how mismatched and wrong for each other they truly are. I also think it's pained him to refrain from tweeting for this long, and now he finally has a reason to start again, for which both we and Michael can be thankful.

So yes, those are my thoughts on AL's story from earlier this week. Glad to hear from my followers as well about your reactions to this. Thank you for writing in! x

[transman-badass]

Look maybe it's the cold talking but I think at the core of the whole "people don't send asks or comment on fanfics anymore" the issue isn't entitlement or not wanting to be part of the community but fear

Look at the notes of any of those posts. Look at what you see over and over. It's the same refrain. 'but what if they don't want to hear from me' 'but what if I'm bothering them'

These are not comments by people who don't care, who aren't interested. These are made by people who are afraid you're going to bite their head off and probably doxx them for good measure.

We lost our community years ago. And if you've been paying attention, you can think of the exact moments when that happened. You can probably think of more than I can. (I'm just saying, the people who grew up with the Steven Universe and Voltron discourse are adults by now...)

How do we fix this? Well, I'm sick so you probably shouldn't be asking me that. But I think collectively re-establishing ourselves as safe places for creatives - especially the shit you don't like - is the only way we'll ever have a healthy community again. Because right now there's no social contract. There is no line that we can trust others won't cross. We navigate a minefield just by being on this site. Just by being online, even. You may have the most mild, gentle creations around, but that doesn't mean you're safe.

Also we need to do something about the people who are pieces of shit that are scaring everyone, but even when I'm not sick, that's hard to figure out how to handle.

[momentomori24]

Long-ass fandom rant because I need to scream into the void to find a reason to live let's gooooo

[For context I wrote most of this last friday which I thought was good to mention so the timeline makes a bit more sense. I really held off on this one XD Welp, let's start this trainwreck.]

Ok, I know I have other long posts I should be paying attention to (*cough* Keiji's shady shenanigans rant *cough*) among other probably more important things, but quickly wanna get this off my chest because it's kinda started to bug me and add even more concerns about the yttd fandom than I already have. This is specifically going to be about soushin-- yeah, yeah, I know-- but also bleed into something more... broad. Or broader. Idk, I'm a Tumblr user not a grammar teacher.

While browsing through Twitter I've been noticing a little spike in popularity for yttd with more fans and soushin shippers emerging as well. Which is cool, the game deserves all the praise and popularity it can get. And as someone whose been here for years, I'm glad that the fandom is slowly and steadily grown more accepting of soushin compared to the attitude around it way back when. There's been some genuinely really cool stuff that really does the ship justice from a lot of talented artist and writers that I absolutely love (will link some later), but something I've also been seeing a lot of from fans is what I can only describe as a "sanitisation resurgence" (but not really. kinda). A week or two ago on Twitter I stumbled across some soushin discourse where some people were sharing the sentiment that "if soushin end up being related and/or have a big age gap the ship is ruined". That they can only be two years apart max or else Nankidai has "fumbled them".

And the only response to that I had is "what". Like, how is that a deal breaker to you lot? How did you even get into the ship without accepting that those things could very likely end up being canon? How are you here and not ready to ship them no matter what's revealed about them after everything we've learned about them? Midori and Shin possibly being related was always on the table, and Midori potentially having already been an adult when Shin was in high school was always a very real possibility ever since we learned that he was never actually a student at his school. This is literally what soushin shippers got harassed by antis for years ago. Soushin is "problematic", and that's why people who shipped them where treated so badly in the fandom or just excluded all together. I can't count how many timed I've come across a "soushin shippers dni" or "soushiners are freaks and I hope you all have a bad day" or soushin fanfics/art with "I DON'T ACTUALLY SHIP IT BTW" and "not a ship" and "actual soushin shippers dni" attached to it. I can't recall how many times I had to explain myself with the "I ship but I don't condone it irl" or explain why I shipped them to not be labelled as a freak as if you need an excuse to ship anything fictional to begin with. I still remember soushin artist @uououoon and how they ended up deleting their Twitter account years ago because of the harassment and slanderous comments they were receiving for ships the fandom deemed problematic. When a person was saying their goodbyes to them on reddit and made some goodbye art (which is now deleted), some assholes in the comments were calling them weirdos and pedophiles for how they explored fiction and "glorified abuse" (which are the usual comments to uououoon's art posted on reddit unfortunately). I only caught wind of this one because back when they were still active in the fandom they were my favourite soushin artist and I went through their stuff almost every day and was tipped off when I randomly couldn't find their account anymore. They were such a nice and incredibly talented person too so the fact they essentially got bullied by a flock of stupid western fans seriously irritates me thinking about it again. This is why we cannot have nice things.

Soushin is "problematic". It's toxic and subtly abusive and important to the characters in question, but that didn't stop people from going after people who wanted to explore a dark, canon relationship (romantic, platonic or otherwise). How the actual hell did we go from "soushin has very toxic and problematic elements and you shouldn't be shipping it, you fucking freaks" to "you can ship it but don't make it actually problematic, you fucking freaks" like what is happening right now???? The worst part is that this is coming from other soushin shippers. The fact that there's actually soushiners with "proshippers dni" or "soushin is not for proship" genuinely makes me want to bite someone. Like, you horrible summer child-- not only are you demonstrating that you don't even know what "proship" actually means, but you're also spitting in the face of the people in our community that have CARRIED this ship for us for years. Why throw them under the bus to be one of the “good ones” in the eyes of antis when they hate us all anyway?

This brings us back to the sanitisation point: I feel like soushin is slowly being "sanitised" to fit the sensitive palette of antis by trying to make them as "morally acceptable" as possible. It's a worry I’ve had for a long time that once the fandom grows more accepting of the ship we'll be seeing more people basically scrubbing soushin of everything that made, well, soushin, to justify enjoying it. I've seen a bit of it already with a few people trying to say it's "not abusive" or just erase Shin's very obvious trauma by Midori all together for quite some time. Guess it's starting to happen on a bigger scale sooner rather than later. Maybe. Personally I don't think soushin having a big age gap or being related would ruin the ship. It just adds another layer of fucked up to their already fucked up relationship (I already hc Midori to be significantly older anyway so maybe I'm just biased). It doesn't really matter. I came here for toxic yaoi. I want nuclear waste level toxicity, not nuclear waste level toxicity presented in the most conventional and moral way possible. What would the point even be? It’s like packaging poison in a grape juice box. Like, it might be harmless to look at and more justifiable to think of as delicious, but it’s still poison. You making it look all cute and innocent isn’t going to change that. It's kinda funny and by that I mean not really that people will talk about wanting more "toxic yaoi" but when the yaoi is actually toxic and messy and horrific they will cry about it being "bad" or "ruined". You don't actually want dark dynamics, you want dark dynamics stripped of everything that makes them uncomfortable and dark so it's digestible to your tastes that don't even align with said dynamics in the first place. The worst part of this whole "soushin isn't proship so it's fine" bullshit is that it relies on trying to make the ship more "morally acceptable" or "legal" than other ships. Dawg, we are talking about abuse. You shouldn't be minimising that to say "well it's not [insert other terrible thing] so it's fine!!" That's not the "gotcha" you think it is. It’s one of the reasons why antis being into soushin made me feel weird cuz like you can’t ship it and then turn around to insult someone else, man (I’ve seen so many soushin defenders bash other “proships” to justify theirs like what are you doing--).

Realistically, the simplest and smartest thing to do when I see someone mischaracterise or butcher my faves is to either block or ignore and pretend to not care so I don't act on my sixth sense telling me to off them and myself. Realistically, this shouldn't be a big deal or anything that important, but this attitude is usually weaponized to harm and harass people who don't conform to their purity crisis over fiction. I'm in the unfortunate position of being not only a Your Turn to Die fandom dweller, but a Hazbin Hotel and The Coffin of Andy and Leyley one too. I'm used to being labelled a rapist and incest apologist irl who's delusional and deserves to be harassed and insulted by virtue of the media or ships I like (probably not a good thing). But people who are more active in these fandoms than me have it much worse as they get this shit directly waaaay more often while I mostly get called these things indirectly, which is what motivated me more to make this post.

So a couple days ago someone made some art of Monika from ddlc, Nikole (don't know the game sorry) and Ashley from Tcoaal. A lot of people on Twitter, unsurprisingly, bashed it for including Ashley to the point where some felt the need to clarify that they like her as a character but her actions (for some reason I do not understand like Monika has also done some seriously evil shit why are you not applying that logic to her too?). What struck me the most is that a yttd fan-- a self proclaimed "Midori enthusiast"-- ALSO quoted it to bash having Ashley in it. A freaking Midori fan. I told them to mind their business and start separating fiction and reality and to stop being a hypocrite, and thus ensued the most hilarious and stupidest convo I've had in a while:

You can literally count the seconds it takes for these guys to start throwing predator accusations and slurs at people. So "not exploring fiction correctly" makes me weird, but harming or putting real people on blast for nothing is free game, apparently. They're not the worst, both in this instance and in general, but it just stuck with me. Which is impressive, cuz I normally don't have much emotions to spare aside from general mild irritation for things like this. Maybe it's the Sonic feet.

But it ties into my issue. Midori's an absolute piece of garbage, yet some people will convince themselves that his actions are in some way justifiable to justify their hatred of something else (that is a lot less severe in this case) rather than love and let love. Tcoaal is not an "incest game" and if you describe it like that unironically you are not ready to be on the internet. No, it doesn't condone or glorify incest-- it literally does the opposite. If you need the characters to look into the camera and say "what we're doing is wrong and immoral" before doing something bad, I think you're the problem at that point. For the same reason you liking Midori (probably) doesn't mean you support human experimentation and torture, someone liking Tcoaal doesn't mean they support incest and someone shipping soushin doesn't mean they support abuse. These things are dark and shouldn't be condoned irl, but this is fiction. We can do whatever the hell we want. Being into darker themes and media doesn't have to reflect your real world views, but the inability to grasp that sentiment leads people to make their interests as moral and sanitised as possible and, feeling morally superior, will go after people who don't do that. This person deadass said that "incest is not morally grey and absolutely unjustifiable" (didn't even say that it wasn't btw) as if their blorbo hasn't committed so many atrocities for kicks that I personally find more unjustifiable. That line implies that they think that everything else Ashley has done and everything Midori has done can be justified because it wasn't incest specifically, which I find is a WILD thing to insinuate XD But it really does encapsulate the hoops antis will jump through to defend their likes while attacking yours despite the fact that it's literally the exact same as theirs. Rule of thumb: if someone accuses you of condoning something immoral because you like it in fiction, apply that logic to them, look at what they like and if their wet little meow meow is the Joker, Eren, Killua, Makima, Midori or whatever other morally bankrupt character you can come up with, take that as a confession and run. Cuz half the time these guys are actually nuts. While quote tweeting someone to shit on their art isn't the worst thing, considering how twitter has treated tcoaal artists the fact that they'd potentially open them up to harassment pissed me off, which is probably evident from my tone.

[Hi hi, this is me from the present right now cuz a more recent development came up so I’m using it as an example here too.]

While most of the things listed here have all been happening online, this attitude can come up in the real world as well.

As OP states, a bunch of hellaverse cosplayers were targetted at a french convention by haters of the show trying to ruin their cosplay. This is already completely unacceptable but the thing I can’t for the life of me get over is torching their costume while they’re still wearing it. Literally attempting to set someone on fire. All over a fucking show. It’s baffling how people can justify actions like this because they think your taste in fiction is so disgusting it’s Ok for them to hurt you. Not just online, but outside as well. It’s not the first time a hellaverse cosplayer has been harassed (last time it was a Valentino cosplayer but then again Val fans get shit from all sides all the time), and while I’m pretty sure these will remain as isolated cases it’s still scary to think about. What’s even more scary to think about how people think that their opinion on hazbin hotel has any relevance to the situation. So many of the comments in that post are just “I hate Hazbin Hotel, but—” or “I hate the fandom, but--” or “I hate Vivzie, but—” and I’m literally here ready to start pouncing like SHUT UP. No buts. That is not in any way important here. You not liking the show or the creator should not be important to the situation of cosplayers being actively harmed. You don’t have to signal your allegiances before showing basic human empathy, goddamnit. And what’s even worse is that some people have just turned this into a “b-but the hazbin fandom!!” issue, which is insulting. For example:

The “Hazbin fans do blackface and disrespect black people daily” is a reference to ONE Alastor cosplayer that nobody had defended. Not even fans. At least no one I can find. Yet they are using this one bad apple to generalise the whole fandom as "bad" and down play the amount of bullshit the hatedom does to fans on a regular. It kinda makes me feel sick that someone would look at a situation like this and spin this into a “fandom thing” rather than focusing on the victims. That they don’t deserve to be taken as seriously just because of the fandom their in. Some lunatic in the comments was literally completely minimising this whole thing saying “some red paint (fake blood capsules) isn’t nearly as bad as lynching and what black people have gone through in America” before calling anyone who called out that that’s completely irrelevant racist for liking Hazbin Hotel like are you kidding me. My homies in Christ, someone almost got lit on fire can everyone please stay on the goddamn topic. This is one of the rare moments where I was kinda proud of twitter as the majority of the comments and quotes where calling out their bullshit, but the amount of likes and some of the comments are still disappointing.

So what points am I trying to make here? This was very spontaneous and rushed so apologies if it feels messy cuz it very much is messy. But my main points boil down to this: Purification, sanitation and the “fiction equals reality” and "your fictional tastes reflect on you morality irl" arguments need to die. They just have to. While petting Shin on a daily basis gives me enough serotonin to find the will to live, the only true solace I will find is when people start being normal. People shouldn’t be getting harassed or labelled as freaks for fiction you don’t like both online and real life. People are not less worthy of basic human decency and empathy solely based on their fictional interests. People should be able to explore fiction however the hell they want without worrying about there being made a call out post on them somewhere. I search Tcoaal on twitter and there’ll always be a bunch of posts with over 10k likes calling all fans annoying weirdos or say it’s an “incest game” even tho it literally isn’t. I will try looking for some Valangel art on tumblr and see some loser use the tag to basically shit on everyone who ships it and lying about the treatment these shippers get while defending Charlastor or just shit on the ship in general. I just exist on the twitter side of the HH fandom chilling with other Val fans and literally every single one of them has either received death/rape threats or told to kill themselves, got ratio’d by a bunch of haters, had a call out post saying not to follow dedicated to them, had their art reposted and Val scribbled out, repeatedly accused of ““romantising a rapist””, or all of the fucking above. Valentino’s VA gets asked if he’s actually like the character he plays in real life or a fan being “relieved that he didn’t abuse them like Valentino” when they met (kudos to Joel for being chill about it btw I would be fuming this fandom does not deserve this man). I type in a certain controversial yttd ship to search and most of the latest posts are just people being rude, saying that if Nankidai makes them canon they’ll drop the game, calling the man himself a freak, calling other shippers freaks, shitting on soushin as well and then having soushiners defend their ship while also shitting on said controversial ship. It genuinely feels like fanbases are circuses and we are the clowns 💀

I could list other examples people being weirdos but I can't do that without breaking the momentum of this post even more than I already have. I guess what I wanted to vent about is how these attitudes regarding fiction and the way people police how others engage with it and how people think of you based on what you like can go from just annoying to downright dangerous more often than you’d think. That belief that you are morally superior to someone else based on the fact that you ship or like things the “legal” and “pure” and “healthy” way (which is never actually the case btw) can lead to you being really disrespectful or a complete asshole and not feeling bad about it at all, which does more harm than good. Which is why I thought it was important to bring up more extreme cases to empathise how this obsessive gatekeeping of fiction can and does hurt real people, who should be more important to you than fictional characters.

All of this is very likely going to sound very aggressive in tone and I want to quickly clarify that this is not meant to be an attack towards anyone in particular. I'm just tired and recalling all this stuff is making my mood sink like a stone lmao. Who knows, maybe I'm just overexaggerating and things won't get worse when the game gets more popular. This is just what I've been witnessing both in and out of my side of the moon. The amount of yttd fans I've seen act like this are a lot tho. No fandom is perfect obviously, and this one is the farthest from it, but with new people coming in and this weird attitude and need to sanitise not only towards soushin, but other "problematic" ships and media as well growing more prominent (mostly on Twitter and Tiktok) my biggest worry is that the hostility in this fandom will just... increase? Roulettefeel made pretty good posts about it-- my favourites being this one, also this one and this one's pretty short and sweet, summarising most of my soushin points a lot better and shorter than my trainwreck of a post so I recommend checking them out. If you like soushin, go check them out. If you don't like soushin, go check them out anyway. They make stuff outside of soushin too. They're pretty cool.

[I also want to add that the whole sanitisation thing in the yttd fandom is nothing new. It’s been a thing for longer than I have been here. I’ve just been seeing it again with soushin, which is was what made me want to do this in the first place. There’s another dynamic the fandom obviously does this for, but uttering it would not only get me flamed but straight up burned at the stake of bad takes so I’m saving that for a rainy day.]

Aaaaannd, I'm done, I think. I didn't have a good conclusion for this in mind. Idk, just be nice? You don't have to like "proships" (or what the fandom has defined as proship cuz that's not the actual definition), but that's what the block buttons for. Don't like, don't read, I say. Fandoms are for everyone and as long as what the person is doing is harmless, let them feel safe being themselves without having to worry about someone coming after them. Real life cops already suck. Let's not bring them into our collective escapism. And something you personally don't like ending up canon doesn't mean the game or ship is "ruined". That doesn't just go for soushin. That goes for other things too. To tie up loose ends, soushin having an age gap or being related has always been on the table and fits with other themes in the narrative. That does not count as "bad" if it makes sense. Soushin is not "Ok to ship" because it's "not an illegal ship" (whatever tf that means) and it's not "bad to ship" because it's "romanticising abuse". It's fine to ship because it's fictional. You don't need a moral justification to ship anything. That goes for all ships. That's why NOTPs exist. And "proship" doesn't and has never meant "shipping problematic pairings". It's a stance on shipping. It means being pro people being allowed to ship whatever they want. That includes being cool with problematic pairings, but is not limited to those. It means not being a fandom cop. Please stop saying otherwise, I cannot keep living this way--

Soooouuu, to end off on a more positive note and finally put this whole thing to bed I'll link some of my fav newer soushin accounts for anyone who's interested:

Hyo (orewagahai on ao3 check that out too): They are an amazing, amazing writer. If you're into dark, abusive co-dependent, complicated soushin with beautiful characterisation I would highly recommend. They just posted another soushin drabble on twitter and it's great.

jinn: They've been putting out banger after banger ever since getting into the game. Their art is absolutely stunning and they upload frequently, so go check 'em out if you can! It's actual medicine for the soul, I promise. They also draw for dead plate, so if you're into that go ahead too.

angel: Also cool. They're soushin art is hilarious and cute. As much of a sucker as I am for toxic, abusive sludge, they give thses two idiots a silliness that I enjoy. Also if you like trans!Shin content they're pretty good.

欣武 (my dumbass forgot to add them the first time sorry): They are INCREDIBLE. Extremely incredible artist. Their art is so, so freaking good. Not checking them out is absolutely your loss, ngl.

Be nice to them. If I catch anyone attempting to annoy them I'm coming after you and your entire family. Let's be better and not chase new comers off this time :3 Thanks for listening to my incoherent venting. This is mostly for me to feel a bit better, but anyone is free to read. If anyone's got an opinion or observation, feel free to offer it. I need coffee. Coffee sounds good.

[duchess-of-oldtown]

So my English lecturer talked about ASOIAF today and described Cersei and Jaime "freaky" rather than just saying they're fucking and I had to sit there amongst actual normal human beings like

[cephalopodvictorious]

a fun tip I've taught everyone at work is that if your coffee is too bitter, instead of a bunch of sugar, you can add the smallest bit of salt to your coffee and it'll cut the bitterness

[wistfulcynic]

listen.

aziraphale made the only choice he could make. From a narrative perspective, yes, but primarily from a character one. He would never have been happy if he'd run away with Crowley. He wouldn't even have been content.

however much he loves Crowley, Aziraphale has never been the impetus in their relationship. It's always been Crowley, nudging, urging, pushing, tempting and Aziraphale, for all the progress he's made over the millennia, still retains a deep-seated and not wholly conscious horror of giving in to temptation. The more he wants a thing the more bad he believes having that thing would be, and while he can rationalise the food and drink and clothes and books as harmless earthly pleasures, to turn his back on his devotion and his duty and give in completely to what he wants more than anything--that remains unthinkable, impossible for him even to contemplate.

he's a true believer, and true believers cannot be swayed by arguments. The more convincing the arguments are, in fact, the more the true believer refuses to consider them. The only way Aziraphale can find his way back to Crowley is through a crisis of faith. He needs to see the truth for himself and independently reach his own conclusions. If he didn't then he would always feel, deep down, that Crowley had manipulated him, that what they were doing was wrong, and that he, Aziraphale, had failed by giving in. Those kinds of doubts are the ones that kill you, slowly, by attrition, and by extension destroy everything you love.

but just think how much more powerful it will be when (not if... projecting) in Season 3 Aziraphale chooses Crowley with full willingness and his whole heart. Not because Crowley talked him into it but because he knows himself at last and knows what he wants. And is finally unafraid to take it.

"i choose you" is, has been, and always will be the most powerful declaration of love.

[yutamayo]

you dont even try to justify how terrible you are or reason with people who disagree with you. you have the idgaf attitude and yet you create 15 posts on the spot. looks like gaf energy to me 😭😭 ur such a joke. & stop blowing up people’s inboxes on anon telling them to kill themselves freak

Is this BC I said don't bully me I'll cum :(

I don't use anon :/ if I'm gonna say something I'ma say it with my entire chest, esp if it's to tell someone (who?) to yeet themselves into the abyss. By all means please do take notes 🙏🏽