#this was from Batman 428

[dying-isnt-good-for-your-health]

This is every Robin to ever hold the title

[martyrbat]

batman #428 / batman: legends of the dark knight #100

It's over. It's begun. The end of the training and the worry that he wouldn't pass the tests and make the grade, the beginning of a life with meaning. Jason smiles. A bright smile. The kind of smile Robin, The Boy Wonder should have. And he is Robin after all. For now and ever more.

‘Part of me recalls him putting on his costume that first time... the look on his face... his smile... as if it were yesterday. That first time, I must keep it alive... the memory of it. Alive in my heart so that the memory of this... here now... doesn't destroy me. We're together at least. One last time together... as it should be.’

[nyukaart]

hiya leo— im pretty new to the dc fandom, i've just been absorbing content through fanart ( big fan of batfam ), but i wanna approach the actual comic sources now since im interested, but there's just so much content, I don't know where and how to start ;-;

any recommendations?

I'm gonna suggest this with categories because there are tooooo many to cover .

There's not much of all the modern batfamily being together at once unfortunately at from what I've remembered/read I fear💔 I'm so sure there's some out there but I just haven't got to them yet😭

Batfam in general I'd suggest Gotham Knights ! Lots of cute brotherly moments and Bruce being a good dad hehe

Dick(robin) and Bruce:

Batman year three- Dicks backstory and Tim introduction

Robin year one- Dicks time as Robin

Batman and Robin year one-another story of Dicks first few missions as robin

Batman(2016) #54 - Dick opening up to Bruce after the incident

Id add some Nightwing stuff as well but most of it has like lore built up to that so it might be confusing if you're still fairly new!however if youre willing to read 160 something issues then I'd really suggest Nightwing (1996),a warning,the artstyle is VERY nineties and there's an SA scene in #93 which I'd suggest skipping if you're uncomfortable with that sort of thing. Buttt there's SOO many Dick and Tim moments in this comic! There's also occasional dickbabs which is really sweet

Speaking of Tim, his robin(1993) run has many moments of him with Bruce,Dick and Steph which was cutee(pretty sure Steph as Robin also originated from this run)

For Damian and Dick I'd heavily suggest you read batman RIP,Time and the Batman, final crisis before you can go into the battle of the cowl and finally,Batman and Robin(2009) (this is the one where Dick takes over the Batman tittle and is Damians mentor figure for a whileee) if you want to understand wtf happened and why Dick became batman for this time period, personally,I think it's worth it since all the titles before Batman and Robin(2009) were just really short, under 10 issue runs that you can finish in like 30 minutes

If you're interested in the batgirls then definitely read

Batgirl(2000) -basically Cassandras Batgirl run that I enjoyed a lott, lots of her and Steph moments but also Babs being a sister figure of sorts towards Cass(teaching her how to speak and etc), there's also moments of her and Bruce together which is cute cute cuteee

Batgirls (2021) -its just the girls going on missions together and doing their own thing hehe

As for Duke and Cass, I haven't read thattt much on duke unfortunately besides his we are robin run BUT! Batman and the outsiders have lots of cute Duke and Cass moments,including Cass and Bruce moments that I recall

I'd suggest detective comics but there's quite literally over 1080 issues. So ermmm yea, you'll have to do your own deep dive into that💔

I fear I don't have that any Red hood/Jason comics because. I just haven't got that into him yet however issues #366 - #428 of Batman is Jaybin centric :3

Honorable mentions of Khoa and Squire because I like them a lot in Batman Inc

This is all for now😋, I'm just yapping through memory cause my notes apps isn't working so I'm sorry if the timelines are a little off..hope this helps anyways !

Feel free to add your own suggestions in the replies I wanna sleep

[fandomfactsfunfacts]

Jason Todd Major Injuries

Face:

Legends (1986) #2-3, #5: Mob rushed, left with bandage around the eye

Red Hood and the Outlaws (2011) #17: Helmet filled with acid by The Joker

Head:

Legends (1986) #2-3, #5: Mob rushed, left with bandage around head

Robin War (2016) #2: Knocked unconscious by Damian

Batman: Urban Legends (2021) #2: Mother’s deal slams his head into a wall as a child

Batman: Urban Legends (2021) #2: Knocked unconscious by Grifter

Throat/Neck:

Batman: Under the Red Hood (2011): Throat slashed by Batarang thrown by Batman

Torso:

Detective Comics (1937) #574: Robin Jason is severely injured

*Batman (1940) #573-574: Shot 4 times with .38 caliber

Back:

Task Force Z (2021) #1: Burn scars across entire back

Arms:

Legends (1986) #2-3, #5-6: Mob rushed, left with arm in cast

Robin (1993) #177: Wrist hit with Robinarang

Legs:

Detective Comics (1937) #698: Bone Spur in Hip

Batman RIP (1940): Shot in Leg

Legends (1986) #2-3, #5-6: Mob rushed, left with leg in cast

Robin (1993) #177: Shot in leg

Entire Body/Unspecified Injuries:

Batman (1940) #427–428: Beaten by The Joker

Batman (1940) #650: Caught in explosion

Legends (1986) #2-3, #5-6: Mob rushed, left with many injuries

Battle for the Cowl (2011) #3: Falls off bridge into Gotham River

Zero Year (2014): Injured after being orphaned as a child

Batman and Robin (2011) #11: Attacked and electrocuted by Damian Wayne

Red Hood and the Outlaws (2016) #25: Beaten by Batman

Robin (2021) #5: Electrocuted by Damian Wayne

Batman: Urban Legends (2021) #4: Frozen solid by Freeze

Deaths:

Batman (1940) #427–428: Blown up by The Joker

Emperor Joker (2000) Re(?)murdered by Emperor Joker

Trinity (2016) #15: Killed by Bruce Wayne to free him from demonic possession

Dark Nights Death Metal (2021): Killed by Groblins

Task Force Z (2021) #3-4: Shot in the back by Zombified Deadshot

Batman (2016) #148: Killed by Batman of Zur-En-Arrh

Faked Injuries:

Unknown

Potential Older Self

Future State - Future State: Dark Detective (2022) #2: Large scar along left side of face

Alt Timeline:

Titans of Tomorrow - Batwoman (2017) Vol #6: Missing Left Eye and Right Leg

Other Earths:

Arkhamverse Video Games: J scar on cheek

Gotham Knights Video Game: Scar running from mouth to cheek

Death in the Family Film: Facial Scars or Burns

Earth 63- DC VS Vampires (2021) #6: Shot through the chest with arrow, after bitten

*thank you arcade-confetti for the additions in the tags, i appreciate it!

[avayarising]

Deaths of Jason Todd

Part of the Batfam Death Project.

Jason has died five times. There are also a further three times when he might have arguably died. I have not found any instances of Jason visiting the afterlife without being dead.

Total time dead: 6 months, give or take a few days.

Verifiable deaths

1. Killed by the Joker in Ethiopia (Batman 1:427–428, 1988)

As we all know, Jason was killed by the Joker (Batman 1:427–428, 1988).

He went to Heaven (Green Arrow 3:7, 2001).

He woke up in his coffin six months later because something something Superboy Prime (Batman Annual 25, 2006),

and was restored from catatonia by Talia via the Lazarus Pit (also Batman Annual 25).

Time dead: probably around six months, but it’s complicated.

2. Killed by Batman to release him from demonic possession (Trinity 2:15, 2017)

Circe and Ra’s al Ghul worked together to get the Outlaws (Jason, Artemis, and Bizzaro) possessed by demons from the Pandora Pits intent on sacrificing Batman, Wonder Woman, and Superman. Bruce injected a possessed Jason with potassium chloride to kill him, forcing the demon out, then restarted his heart by defibrillation.

(This comic also features Superman and Constantine climbing through a portal to hell in possessed!Jason’s mouth.)

Time dead: a minute or so.

3. Beaten to death by groblins (Dark Nights: Death Metal 7, 2021)

Jason, along with other members of the Batfamily, was overwhelmed by a swarm of ‘groblins’: mindless evil Jokerised Robins invading from the Dark Multiverse, led by the Robin King (an evil child Bruce Robin).

Shortly after that he was raised as a zombie (missing an arm) by Black Lantern Batman to continue the fight.

Jason was restored to proper life when Wonder Woman, powered by the determination of her friends, defeated the evil Batman Who Laughs and persuaded the gods to remake the multiverse as it was before the evil universes invaded the good ones.

Time dead: somewhere from quarter of an hour to an hour? Or perhaps a lot longer, if it took longer to rebuild the world. It’s always a little tricky to be sure when world remakes are involved.

4. Shot in the back by zombie Deadshot (Task Force Z 3–4, 2022)

Jason joined a team of zombies called Task Force Z, an organisation run by Harvey Dent with questionably legitimate government backing and copious quantities of Lazarus resin to bring them back every time they died. He was sent to recruit Deadshot by raising him from the dead. Apparently some fool buried Deadshot’s wrist guns with him, because the first thing Deadshot did on being resurrected was to shoot Jason in the back.

Jason was rushed back to the organisation’s facility but flatlined on the operating table.

He was revived by an injection of Lazarus resin into the brain (or possibly just the outer ear? picture is unclear), administered by one of the staff of the questionably legitimate facility.

Time dead: less than a minute.

5. Killed by the Batman of Zur-En-Arrh (Batman 3:148, 2024)

Batman’s dissociation backup personality, called Zur-En-Arrh, turned evil and downloaded itself into a robot. It fought Batman and Jason jumped in to save him; Zur took him out with a stong uppercut to the jaw, smashing his facemask, and threw him down hard, which broke his neck and killed him.

This was a setup by Bruce and Jason: Jason was wearing a special suit that injected him with Lazarus resin, so he was revived almost instantly, while having killed someone caused Zur-En-Arrh to crash.

Time dead: a few seconds.

Inferrable and arguable deaths

1. Arguably died when Joker takes over the world (Emperor Joker, 2000)

After the Joker stole reality-altering powers from Mxyzptlk and remade the universe to his liking, he placed Jason’s rotting corpse alongside Dick’s and Tim’s for a macabre poker game.

Emperor Joker was published in 2000, well before Jason was revealed to be alive in the Under the Hood storyline, published in 2006 (and later retconned to have been present in the Hush storyline in 2003), and absolutely before any writer had conceived of bringing him back to life. But given that he is supposed to have been shambling around as a zombie and then getting assassin training for a long while before that, taking the retcons into account he ought to have been alive at the time of Emperor Joker.

So while at the time of writing Jason was intended to be continuously dead, after the retcons we have to say that Joker killed Jason again, perhaps even unknowingly, to put him in his poker game.

After Joker was defeated, Mr Mxyzptlk, with Spectre!Hal’s guidance, restored the world to its previous state, which presumably also involved restoring Jason to life again.

Time dead: it’s complicated.

2. Perhaps dies in the confrontation with Bruce involving the Joker (Batman 1:650, 2006)

When he returned to Gotham as the Red Hood, Jason engineered a confrontation between himself, Batman, and the Joker. Batman ended up throwing a batarang which clipped his shoulder. (Jason had previously in this story monologued about how shoulder wounds can kill quickly from blood loss but are easily treated if you’re quick.) Then the Joker shot the explosives Jason had set and the building blew up.

Batman presumably assumes Jason is dead (Jason and Joker were right on top of a large pile of explosives – in fact, it’s pretty amazing even Bruce, who was standing a few feet away, managed to get out). So no-one is around to rescue and treat Jason. But Jason returns later with no explanation of how he survived. Either he’s returned from the dead again or he is supernaturally good at not dying.

Then again, the Joker survived too, so who knows?

Time dead: unknown, if any.

3. Perhaps dies when Dick throws him off a bridge into Gotham River (Batman: Battle for the Cowl 3, 2009)

After Jason nearly killed both Tim and Damian, during the Battle for the Cowl while Bruce was lost in time, Dick confronted him in a battle which ended up on top of a train going over a high bridge. Dick knocked Jason off the train, and they ended up on the bridge with Jason dangling off the edge.

Dick did the whole ‘Take my hand’ thing and Jason said “I’ll be seeing you sooner than you think,” before letting go and dropping into the water from a great height.

This suggests either Jason knows he’s going to come back from the dead or Jason thinks Dick is going to die soon. Dick definitely reacts as if he thinks Jason is dead, and Dick probably has a pretty generous idea of what’s survivable when it comes to heights.

Again, Jason returns later with no explanation.

Time dead: unknown, if any.

Batfam Death Project Masterpost

[everwalldigan]

genuinely curious in comics (haven't gotten to jason as robin yet) why on earth is the narrative that jason as robin wasn't good enough, was an idiot and got himself killed because he didnt listen? i know the sheila was alive when bruce came so did she NOT tell him how she sold him out or did she tell him but bruce hid that knowledge?? im like so confused on why tf he'd allow that crap to be said about HIS SON?? i feel like im gonna get into reading jason comics and rip my hair out over every person that knew him being cunts to him and sucking ass AUGFHGHF

Short answer: disgusting classist stereotypes that have unfortunately plagued Jason for decades. The idea that only because he was a displaced child that was failed by the system, he would have become a criminal had Bruce not “saved” him by taking him in and making him Robin. This was proven as false more than once by showing that in alternate universes where Jason wasn’t taken in by Bruce, he was much better off (famously like in flashpoint timeline where he became a priest).

Long answer:

Okay this is gonna be LONG but let’s start at the scene of the crime: Batman #428

Misconception #1: Jason was an incompetent Robin.

No.

Misconception nr 2: he was violent, impulsive and hot-headed

No. He literally let his father’s killer walk away, he literally stopped Bruce from killing the joker during their last encounter with him before ditf.

Detective comics #570

Jason was a traumatised child that was displaying effects of emotional distress/neglect. His emotional needs were not met and were severely underestimated by Bruce. That’s what lead him to seek out his birth mother in the first place, he was just a traumatised child looking desperately for any emotional anchor that he could feel safe with. That’s also the reason why he was “acting out”, disobeying orders, making risks, which lead to Bruce benching him and taking away the emotional anchor they had (Robin). Jason felt safe in his connection to Bruce when he was Robin because Batman needed a Robin and couldn’t abandon Jason if he was Robin. Now that there’s a real chance it would be taken away, what’s stopping Bruce from throwing him out like he did Dick*? Jason had nowhere else to go. He didn’t have a superhero team like the other robins, he didn’t have anything tangible outside of Batman, really.

*Thats unfortunately the canon we have to deal with post crisis instead of the REASONABLE version of Dick growing out of Robin and passing on the mantle willingly THAT LITERALLY MAKES SO MUCH MORE SENSE IM GONNA KMS

A lot of the tragedies surrounding Bruce Wayne are in their core caused by miscommunication and misunderstandings.

Now to Bruce’s last conversation with Sheila. from her words alone you couldn’t really discern that she was the one that lied to Jason and lead him to the warehouse where the joker was waiting to beat him up and had a direct hand in Jason’s death.

I’ve been looking for a couple days for the very first instance of someone using that rhetoric for Jason but I couldn’t find it. It’s usually Alfred or Tim that are most likely to say something like “Jason got himself killed”. Tim in his very… charming… way to proclaim that he’s better than Jason in every way and that Bruce shouldn’t worry about him “getting himself killed” like Jason and Alfred in his very… Alfred… way to try to absolve Bruce of blame in Jason’s death by saying he would have died anyways and there was nothing they could do… as you see Jason is not exactly the best treated character both in and out of universe.

The most memorable instance of someone fully protesting smth like that being said about Jason and fully raging about it was this, when Dick damn near beat Daniel Chase cause he said “we knew this job was dangerous” the literal minute after dick found out Jason died. I mean. Time and place😭

The new titans vol 1 #55

But heres a few instances of Bruce talking about Jason because despite all of this “Jason was angry and rash” bullshit, the first and only person Bruce blames for Jason’s death is himself and nobody else.

Detective comics #790

Gotham knights #45

Anyways I hope that answered the question!! Thank you for the ask :D

[spiritsglade]

so, about that death certificate

OR: Revek is a hater for too many words straight. Sorry about the negativity. This is technically a continuation post from the two I made [1] [2] about Jason's death.

This is Jason Todd's death certificate. We've all seen it. As far as I can tell it's from The Batman Files, a book of sorts that compiles in-universe documents--"Bruce Wayne's secret journal."

This fucking thing sucks. And I HATE it and it's WRONG. The information in it blatantly contradicts canon, and on occasion even blatantly contradicts the cover-ups in canon. Let's break it down:

Dying "in Bristol County and the City of Gotham"

No he didn't

No, he didn't, not even in the cover-up version of events

As we all know Jason died in Ethiopia (or Qurac, or Bosnia, depending on adaption or comic continuity). He does not die in Gotham unless we're digging into deeply removed elseworlds like the HBO's Titans (2018).

Within post-crisis (which is where we're living, given that the publication date for The Batman Files) Bruce literally tells Ethiopian authorities that the kid who died in the rubble was Jason Todd.

Bruce is basically pretending Jason died in an accident here. An accident in Ethiopia, not Gotham. Getting Jason a death certificate from Gotham in general is just??? Wrong??????

Aside: Bruce should probably be concerned about the Joker potentially making the connection between the Robin he beat and blew up in a warehouse in Ethiopia with the Famous Gotham Billionaire Bruce Wayne's adopted son Jason Todd blowing up in a warehouse in Ethiopia. But Batman also later beats up the Joker while screaming Jason's full name at him, so... secret identities who?

Jason Todd's height and weight

The numbers (4'6" and 87 lbs) are pulled directly from one of his character info pages from the 80's. Namely, one written when he was still alive. When he was... you know, still growing. Yes he was 4'6" at some point in his life, which most of us were!! That doesn't mean he's that small when he died.

On the other info sheets, he's 5'2" and 105 lbs (pre-crisis) and 5'0" and 110 lbs (post-death). In The New Titans #55, his height is listed as 5'4".

Yes, other sources about Jason's height are inconsistent! There isn't a right answer but 4'6" is pretty clearly a wrong one.

Tangent about I, MORTIMER GUNT, City Coroner

Mortimer Gunt is apparently an actual guy in the DC universe. His job is listed as mortician. MORTICIANS ARE NOT CORONERS. Why is he listed as City Coroner!!! Coroners are elected officials who determine cause of death, morticians are the ones that prepare funerary arrangements.

(Coroners also do not need to have a degree, are distinct from medical examiners/forensic pathologists, and there's many an anecdote out there of coroners fueling conspiracy theories and helping cops by providing inaccurate information about cause of death, but that's a discussion for another time.)

"Asphyxiation due to smoke"

Death of the Family (Batman #428) has Bruce stating that Jason's corpse is already "cold to touch" by the time Bruce reached him

Deadman: Dead Again (Issue #2) has Jason immediately appear as a ghost after the explosion

Red Hood: Lost Days (Issue #2) has Jason's vision go black as the rubble falls on him from the explosion, and then the darkness lifts upon him crawling out of the grave

While the first is clearly incorrect (corpses take like 24 hours to cool, not minutes) all of these imply that Jason died in the explosion, not afterwards due to the smoke from it.

Sheila also died from, presumably, explosion-related injuries, since there's no visible smoke on panel when Bruce is talking to her, nor is Bruce wearing a respirator or rebreather of any kind (though he probably should, tbh). Sheila was less injured, further from, and also shielded from the explosion by Jason. The explosion killed Jason.

We can argue that "asphyxiation due to smoke" was part of a cover-up--after all, it's a lot easier to explain that Jason died in an accidental house fire or something, instead of the getting beaten and murdered thing.

I am okay with this. This would, however, still make it not how Jason actually died.

(If you want cigarette smoking angst with Jason please please please use the fact Sheila was smoking as she when Joker was beating Jason with the crowbar. Pleaseeee. On my hands and knees. You should use that you should use Jason getting betrayed by Sheila and still calling her mom anyway and smoking the same brand of cigarettes as she was when she lead him into a death trap and looked away pleaseeeeeee)

Miscellaneous complaints: I am extremely pedantic about things that don't matter

Hair color-

The Batman Files were published in Oct 2011, which is after the entire Batman and Robin run that retcons Jason into a redhead. The death certificate still lists Jason's hair as black. Pre-crisis Jason was also ginger (NOT blond. I will fight you on this.)

When the death certificate was filed-

Ethiopia is 7 hours ahead of New Jersey. A flight between Ethiopia and New Jersey takes... somewhere around 13 hours, based on quick searching I didn't bother properly verifying. So that means whatever time Bruce leaves Ethiopia, he's landing in New Jersey six hours later in local time.

(Batman #428) Bruce is still in Ethiopia at this point. If he means the night of April 28th, by the time he gets back to the East Coast on any flight, it's already going to be the 29th, so there's no world where Gunt files the death certificate on the 28th.

If he somehow means the night of the 27th, well. I guess there's time.

Age-

Given that Tim's 16th birthday was in July 19 in Robin #116 and Jason's 18th birthday was in August 16 in Detective Comics #790, their age gap is hard-coded as 1 year and 11 months.

Given that Jason died in April, which we're all running with, and Tim is thirteen in LPoD, this means that Tim staged his Robin intervention less than 3 months after Jason died. Presumably the timeline is even tighter than that because Tim says that he's thirteen instead of almost fourteen. Not a lot of room to breathe! I like to solve this by making it so Jason died at 14 and 8 months, so Tim comes into Bruce's life a few months later, when he's had more time to wallow in the suicidal self-destructive grief that makes him punch people too hard. Which would mean the death certificate is wrong about yet another thing, but I know I'm reaching at this point.

In conclusion

Even if we pretend this is an in-universe document and thus will be unreliable and lie to you in that sense, it still gets basic information wrong. If we do pretend this is an in-universe document that is unreliable and lies to you, then we should not be trusting anything it says, because billionaire Bruce Wayne has shown he'd love to obscure the truth of what happened to Jason Todd, in universe.

Death certificate bad and wrong. The end.

[glitter-stained]

I'm sure you've probably been asked this before so forgive me if it's repetitious, but if I wanted to learn Jason Todd's character, what comics would you suggest to start with?

Hi there! I think you might actually be the first one to ask this anon.

Because this is an intro starter pack, I'll try my best to stay limited to a short/reasonable number of comics so that it makes a quick read and hopefully gives you the essentials/compelling parts. I'll make a more complete reading guide with all my recs later, when I've finished all the more recent ones that seem compelling.

I'm putting them in the order I'd recommend reading them. The one thing I'll say is this: Judd Winick, who created Red Hood, is probably the writer who most influenced Jason's modern characterization for Red Hood fans, but his writing is somewhat divorced from a lot of Jason's Robin run to, imo, the detriment of Jason's character; therefore, while I am counting Winick as an essential Jason writer, in my opinion a good Jason characterization is one that ties the bridges between jaybin and red hood. How you personally conceptualize that is up to you, but I think it's an important preamble to include. So, without further ado, let's get into it!

Jason Tood starter pack

As Robin:

-Batman 1940 #408-411 (408-409 is my favourite Jason story ever)

-Legends

-Batman 1940: #416*

-Detective comics 573-574

-Batman: The Cult*

-Batman 1940:#421-422*

-Batman 1940: #424-428*

*warning for racism in those with a *, aka in the Starlin ones. Starlin's Jason is great, but that's because Starlin hates Jason and accidentally wrote a good character. To enjoy it you have to read it "ironically", as in pretending that the narrative is Batman-critical. Racism is a problem in all of Starlin's stories, but A Death in the Family, which is unfortunately an essential Jason read, is perhaps the worst I've ever read in that regard. Sorry in advance.

As Red Hood:

-Batman: Under the Hood

-Batman Annual #25

-Red Hood: Lost Days**

-Robin 80th anniversary 100 pages spectacular TPB: More Time. This one is very short and I don't know if I would consider it an essential to understanding Jason per se, but it has both excellent Jaybin and Red Hood which is rare to find in a comic.

**re: lost days: there is one specific scene wrt Talia that may surprise you, you will know it when you see it. Rest assured that specific scene has been retconned out of existence and winick himself says he regrets it; please don't let that inform your perception of Talia's character, both in general and in lost days!

[amethystandemma]

Everyone wish a happy death date to Jason Todd!

Panel from Batman #428

[sora-no]

I'm not a big fan of this design, but it could've been worse (at least he doesn't have this ugly ass tube on his head)

But what I'm getting at is that obviously his inmate number is his first appearance in batman #357 and his death in batman #428 connected

I'm sorry, I guess I'm simply obsessed with those details involving Jason and the numbers and whoever does this deserves a respectful bow from me 🙇🏻‍♀️

(Batman and Robin 2009)

[haithhegimp]

Jason Todd is Mentally Sixteen During Under The Red Hood*

(The overly long introduction is all in brackets! You will not experience too much confusion should you choose to skip, so feel free to skip. The content of the post will be under the cut.

*As always with the DCU, consistency is far more dead than the Waynes could ever be. This post is about Jason's timeline from UTRH, and only UTRH. I will use a couple of sources from other places for information we cannot confirm from UTRH, but can vaguely assume are true there. However I will not be talking about the timelines from other media, and especially not other continuities, in this post. I will also be interpreting certain scenes, and that ultimately makes this post somewhat subjective.

I love UTRH a lot, and I found that most other Jason fans love it too. We often use it as a major content source and base a lot of our opinions and feelings surrounding Jason on it. However, in hyperfixating and re-reading it several times over, I have realised that a lot of us miss a major detail that gets exposition-ed to us in Chapter 14/[Batman(1940) Annual #25]!

Of course, if you've come to the same conclusions as I have, and choose to ignore them, then absolutely more power to you. I'm not here to police which canon you folks choose to stitch together and treat as your own, if you choose to interact with canon at all. These are all just comics, have fun!

On top of that, it sometimes gets vague and up to interpretation (which is honestly an aspect I kind of like) so this can all be considered my own opinion if you personally disagree with an interpretation I make <3

Anyways, a lot of us enjoy the angst factor that comes out of Jason being young, but not many of us realise exactly how young he is. This is something I wish to explain to you folks for your content consumption pleasure ^^

Overly long introduction done, yo!)

1. Jason dies at 15 years old.

I am so sorry, I could not find a primary source for this.

Secondary Source A- Word of mouth. Various different Tumblr and Reddit posts I have found when looking this up have listed Jason as being 15 when he dies. Including this post from @thebatmanfiles-blog, this post from @fuckyeahjasontodd, this post from @oh-mother-of-darkness, and these posts from u/GooderCand and u/InDarknessOftFindI

Secondary Source B- Jason's death certificate from [The Batman Files]

Not to be mistaken for [Batman Secret Files], Matthew K. Manning's [The Batman Files] is not a canon DC property work, to my knowledge. (It's honestly kind of confusing, but I'm listing this as a secondary source because I am... pretty sure that [The Batman Files] is not a canon DC property, it is not available on the DC Database Fanwiki or the Official DC Website).

2. Jason Is Revived Six Months After His Death

[Under The Red Hood #14] / [Batman (1940) Annual #25] *(This is just a fun fact, feel free to skip. The page of Jason being alive is taken directly from the, at the time unreleased, [Batman #428: Robin Lives!], with only being slightly recoloured. Due to the gimmick of Jason's death, [Batman (1940) #428] had two different versions drawn out, and though I wasn't able to find any interviews or comments about this on shallow research, it's nice to imagine that the producers of UTRH wanted to showcase Aparo and DeCarlo's unseen efforts ^^)

Jason was originally supposed to live (according to the narration)-- we can use this to say that his injuries (by comic book logic) were non-fatal.

Jason, in his coffin, is shown with the same injuries as his dying-but-not-supposed-to-die-body-- we can use this to say he is biologically 15 when revived.

After Revival Jason's Chronological Age- 15.5 Jason's Biological Age- 15 Jason's Mental Age- 15

3. Jason Gets Into A Coma For One Year

[Under The Red Hood #14] / [Batman (1940) Annual #25]

After digging himself out of the grave, Jason is hit by a car (man, he cannot catch a break)

He is hospitalized and operated on, before going into a coma for One Year

General-Comic-Book-Logic and Actual Research (I sincerely apologize but I'm not looking through genuine medical documents to verify this one, I'm just gonna trust the basic google search) both agree that coma patients do not mentally age

This means Jason's mental age stagnates for One Year

One Year After Revival Jason's Chronological Age- 16.5 Jason's Biological Age- 16 Jason's Mental Age- 15

4. Jason Spends Two Years Catatonic*

[Under The Red Hood #14] / [Batman (1940) Annual #25] *The original describes this state as Jason being run by his instincts, without reason, clarity, or memory. Fans have labeled this as catatonia. I will be referring to this state as catatonia for convenience sake.

Jason wakes up from his coma, but is catatonic

He spends One Year being homeless and living off of instincts (man, he CANNOT catch a break)

[Under The Red Hood #14] / [Batman (1940) Annual #25]

An international game of telephone occurs when a thug sees Jason doing some Robin moves

The Al Ghul's are at the end of the line and kidnap Jason

They keep him, in his catatonic state, for One Year

It is unclear, at this point, whether Jason's catatonia has impaired his mental aging

Three Years After Revival Jason's Chronological Age- 18.5 Jason's Biological Age- 18 Jason's Mental Age- ???

5. Jason Gets Dunked Into The Lazarus Pit

[Under The Red Hood #14] / [Batman (1940) Annual #25]

Here is where my interpretation comes in,

Jason's first words upon leaving the Pit are ["What!? What is happening to me!?"]

Jason, while running away with Talia asks, ["Talia?! What the hell do you-- Where was--!"]

Both of these show Jason being confused about his situation, and unsure of his surroundings. Especially the confusion in ["Talia?!"] means that he is surprised/confused to see her.

All of this goes to say-- he doesn't have any memory of how he came to be in this situation, and he doesn't have any memory of his time being catatonic.

HOWEVER!!! The possible counter-argument is that during his remembering sequence, Talia is a figure on screen, which has the mild implication that she is something he remembers?? This contradicts my interpretation but also has less evidence.

[Under The Red Hood #14] / [Batman (1940) Annual #25]

Jason remembers his death and the events leading up to it, but there is no mention of whether or not he remembers his years being catatonic.

I interpret this as him not remembering.

With My Interpretations, Three Years After Revival Jason's Chronological Age- 18.5 Jason's Biological Age- 18 Jason's Mental Age- 15

6. Jason Prepares For Being Red Hood

[Under The Red Hood #14] / [Batman (1940) Annual #25]

We get that... and then the BTS of Hush. That's literally all we get.

It's so unclear, I'm sorry it's really sort of impossible to give you even a vague estimate of how much time passes.

I've been trying to comb through the rest of UTRH to find things but we only get clear time stamps after Jason's debut as Red Hood. (i may have missed something, though! feel free to lmk if youve found a time stamp in UTRH before Jason's debut)

I only have my personal thoughts that it was probably a year or less between this and Jason's debut.

For the purposes of this post, we'll just say that roughly a year passes with training and preparation.

7. Jason Debuts As Red Hood

[Under The Red Hood #1] / [Batman (1940) #635]

So, at the start of Under The Red Hood, Four-ish Years After Revival Jason's Chronological Age- 19 - 20 Jason's Biological Age- 19 Jason's Mental Age- 16

And alternatively, if you mentally age him during his catatonic era, Jason's (alt) Mental Age- 18

(Now it is time for the Overly Long Conclusion! These will just be more of my personal thoughts and comments, and will be within brackets as well ^^

Honestly, despite me piecing this version of canon together, I don't usually subscribe to it lol. I find UTRH Jason attractive, and canon is what you choose to Frankenstein together, so I usually place him as actually around 19.

But if you consider the events of UTRH through the lense of a deeply traumatized and angsty teenager, that happens to have way too much power? It feels... oddly logical? Like, through this perspective, I look at Jason telling Bruce that he's the better Batman in quite possibly the most dramatic way ever and I go, "Oh of course he would, he's sixteen. I would say shit like that at sixteen if I had even half the baggage."

TBH, I don't think that Winnick actually considered this timeline when writing UTRH Jason, but it fits together really funnily well with his character.

It also makes everything quite a lot more tragic. With this perspective, its more than just losing his teenagehood to shitty circumstances. He is actively and presently still a teenager, a child, when in shitty circumstances. Jason is a sixteen year old child when his father slits his throat.

Actual For Realsies Not Just By Technicality Teenage Crime Lord is absolutely insane, deeply tragic, and more than a little bit funny to me.

If you read through all of this, I'd absolutely love to hear your thoughts and perspectives. Whether you see where I'm coming from, whether you have a completely different perspective, or whether you like thinking of this only sometimes! Hell, even if it's just to cry with me over The Tragedy of Jason Todd, I'd love to chat.

Thank you for your time, if you made it all the way through! Overly Long Conclusion done, yo!)

[My Drawing, lol]

[redhoodinternaldialectical]

Too Dangerous for Kids

So, recently I had reason to go back and read Jason's post-crisis debut comic Batman (1940) #408 and it clicked really hard that basically the central theme of Jason becoming Robin was that Robin was too dangerous a job for kids. Before he becomes Robin, Dick got injured, badly, by the Joker, and Batman swore to never endanger another child like that, which is the reason Dick stops being Robin at all

Batman (1940) #416

And I'm friggin realizing now that the posing in Death of the Family is straight up a mirror to this scene of Dick having been shot?? I'm losing my mind???

Batman (1940) #408

Like, look at this in universe magazine shot with this talk on the radio compared to Bruce holding Jason and tell me this was not deliberate????

Batman (1940) #408 and Batman (1940) #428

And THIS TALK?????

Batman (1940) #408

I just... HMMMM, idk there's something very fascinating to me that the theme of 'this is too dangerous for kids' has been there in Jason since day zero.

It also makes me sympathize a lot with poor Dick who got fired "cause it's too dangerous for a kiddo out there", when he was no longer a child, and then WHAT DOES BRUCE HAVE WITH HIM NOT EVEN A YEAR LATER?!

Batman (1940) #416

He's devastated by the realization there's a new Robin, then harsh and critical of the new Robin because he's sure they're gonna screw up and get hurt

Batman (1940) #416

Not because he wants his old job back

Batman (1940) #416

Despite his misgiving about the mantel being passed on at all, at the end of it, he still gives Jason his respect and acceptance into the role

Teen Titans (2003) #29

And this has such fascinating parallels to Jason's reaction to finding out there's a new Robin after him!

Red Hood: The Lost Days #4

He is devastated by the realization there's a new Robin, then attempts to brutally dissuade the new Robin from keeping the mantel because he's sure they're gonna screw up and get killed

Teen Titans (2003) #29

Not because he wants his old job back

Teen Titans (2003) #29

Despite his misgiving about the mantel being passed on at all, at the end of it, Tim still has his respect, and perhaps even his acceptance into the role, although he was far too violent about it to actually properly give the role over like Dick did for him.

Teen Titans (2003) #29

Neither of them have a petty, jealous reaction of you replaced me, but instead have a tangled mess of "I was sloppy, I wasn't good enough, I got hurt, and now you put an even less prepared child in the line of fire?!" Jason is wildly more violent about it, but at the core I feel like the sentiments are the same, and it kinda makes sense because really the end of their times as Robin were very similar to each other, just Jason's was wildly more violent!

I can't help but wonder if maybe part of Jason's reasoning somewhere along the line was "Now I finally get why Dick was so harsh on me back then." And... honestly I don't think it is. Cause while it would make sense it just doesn't seem to be a parallel either of them is conscious of.

It's just this fascinating set of reflections neither one seems to see.

[the-star-rigel]

Jason (from the Greek Iásōn, “healer”) Peter Todd (from the German Tod, “death”) - I hope you find your way out of that grave.

dc comics + The Oresteia, Aeschylus / Lady Windermere’s Fan, Oscar Wilde / Grief Lessons: Four Plays [tr. Anne Carson], Euripides + Batman v1 #385 / Batman: The Cult #3 / For Example, Mary Oliver / Batman: Legends of The Dark Knight #100 / Batman: Under the Red Hood / Eight, Sleeping at Last / Red Hood and the Outlaws: Rebirth / Batman: Urban Legends #10 + ? / On Earth We’re Briefly Gorgeous, Ocean Vuong / Red Hood and The Outlaws #25 / Slay the Princess / pinterest + Batman #422 / Batman #424 + Rilke's Book of Hours: Love Poems to God, Rainer Maria Rilke + Batman #428 | A Death in the Family / @/metamorphesque, tumblr / American Teenager, Ethel Cain / Anecdote of the Pig, Tory Adkisson / interpretations of A Death in the Family + The Oresteia, Aeschylus / Nightwing: Secret Files and Origins #1 + the Haunting of Bly Manor + Red Hood and the Outlaws #23 / @/petrichara, tumblr / I Didn't Apologize to the Well, Mahmoud Darwish / Infinite Crisis: Secret Files + pinterest / Ruin and Rising, Leigh Bardugo / Red Hood and the Outlaws #26 / The Cruel Prince, Holly Black / pinterest / Red Hood: The Lost Days / Sue Zhao / Red Hood: The Lost Days part II + Red Hood: The Lost Days #4 / I See Boats Moving, Fernando Pessoa / Oedipus the King, TV Tropes / @/devilsmoon, tumblr / Red Hood: The Lost Days + Speeches for Dr Frankenstein, Margaret Atwood / Saving June, Hannah Arrington + embroidered patch / Slay the Princess / unaligned, @/hamletmaschine + Batman: Under the Red Hood / Batman: Under the Red Hood + Batman and Robin #11 + South and West: From a Notebook, Joan Didion / The Good Fight, Ada Limón / Batman: Under the Red Hood / Grief Lessons: Four Plays, Euripides [tr. Anne Carson] / Batman: Under the Red Hood / Slay the Princess / Under the Red Hood / Slay the Princess / @/sainticide, twitter / The Truth About Grief, Fortesa Latifi + Batman: Under the Red Hood / Batman: Under the Red Hood / Ten Legs, Eight Broken, mandana on tiktok / War of the Foxes, Richard Siken + Under the Red Hood + Batman #428 | A Death in the Family / The Unabridged Journals Of Sylvia Plath, Sylvia Plath / Under the Red Hood + Batman #428 | A Death in the Family / @baitmeat, tumblr + Batman: Under the Red Hood (Deluxe Edition) / Origin Story, Desireé Dallagiacomo / Vive, Vive, Traci Brimhall / The Dogs I Have Kissed, Trista Mateer + Batman: Under the Red Hood + Three Jokers / Red Hood and the Outlaws Rebirth #9 / @/sainticide, twitter + Red Hood and the Outlaws #10 / Would’ve, Could’ve, Should’ve, Taylor Swift / ? + Robin 80th Anniversary 100 Page Super Spectacular / Ep. 4: Joseph Campbell and the Power of Myth -- 'Sacrifice and Bliss', Joseph Campbell / White Knight #7 + Heaven, Mieko Kawakami / Forest Fire, Mitski / Red Hood and the Outlaws Vol. 2 #9 + Batman Annual #25 + Free Will Astrology, Rob Brezsny / Letter XV, @/lucidloving / Red Hood and the Outlaws Vol 1: REDemption / briscoepark + The Civil War, Anne Sexton [compiled by @/lovejoyparadox here] / @/soapstore, tumblr + I Await the Devil’s Coming, Mary MacLane + Claire C. Holland / @/havingrevelations, tumblr / Meditations in an Emergency, Cameron Awkward-Rich + Deathstroke #34 / Grief Lessons: Four Plays by Euripides [tr. Anne Carson] + Red Hood and the Outlaws

[kara-zor-els]

Batman (1940) #408 : Bruce carrying an injured Dick Grayson after a fight with the Joker. Said injury led to Robin being presumed dead by the public, Dick's firing from the position and ultimately Jason Todd taking up the Robin mantle as a result.

Batman (1940) #428 : Bruce carrying Jason's corpse after his death at the hands of the Joker during the events of A Death in the Family.

[astronaut-isa]

Take Pity on the Prodigal Son: Religious Imagery in Relation to Death in the Family

This panel below on the left, one of the final ones we see in Batman #428 parallels that of Michelangelo’s magnum opus (besides the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel) the Pieta (c. 1490). It is a life-sized marble statue in St. Peter’s Basilica depicting the moments after Jesus died by crucifixion. His mother holds his emaciated, punctured body in her lap; her face is one of controlled anguish, not wanting to show the extent of her grief in front of the surrounding Roman soldiers. One can infer that beyond the pain Mary must feel some sense of pride; her son, the Messiah, served the purpose for which he was put on the Earth to complete: to protect those who cannot protect themselves. And that he succeeded, but at the expense of his own life. Notice that both Batman and the Virgin Mary are almost positioned in the same way, cradling their sons’ bodies close. Their faces share the same controlled sorrow mentioned prior. Jesus and Jason are positioned almost identically as well; their arms and legs dangle, their heads loll back not fully supported by the hands of those who cradle them. If one looks closely they can see that the Jesus statue has indents in his hands and feet, the places of his body in which he was nailed to the cross. Interestingly and morbidly enough, those are the same places in which the most blood seems to be pouring from Jason’s body. Beyond the physical similarities of the two pieces of media lie the thematic elements. Bruce Wayne/Batman and the Virgin Mary are similar because they are challenged with the burden of raising a child who is born into a world that has already laid out expectations for them to meet. Not only is the challenge of raising a child with a destiny laid out for them difficult to deal with, but in addition is the notion that people hate your little boy and would go as far as to kill him only for helping those who are in a worse position than himself. There is an innate need to protect your child from all the dangers laid before him, even if the contact is inevitable. 

Jason and Jesus are parallels when it comes to their decision to walk the roads placed before them, although Jesus’ fate as the Messiah is decided for him, and Jason ultimately chooses to become Robin under Bruce’s tutelage. Nevertheless, they still choose to follow their paths of goodness and righteousness, even when put in undesirable situations. Unfortunately, they both meet their ends at the hands of those they thought they could trust and paid the ultimate price. Bruce and Mary, reluctant mother and reluctant father, are left to deal with the crushing guilt and wonder what they could have done better.

(The writing is from my own essay that I wrote for a class, and I ask politely that it not be cross posted on other sites, besides TikTok where I have already posted.)

[gotham-at-nightfall]

Robin lives!!

What if one of the darkest hours in Batman's crime-fighting career never happened? Thirty-five years ago, fans voted on Jason Todd's fate after his brutal encounter with The Joker, which set Jason on the path to becoming the gun-toting vigilante Red Hood. But suppose fans had voted differently... DC Comics transports you back in time with this special faux-simile edition of Batman #428 in which Robin lives! Featuring pages reconstructed from artist Jim Aparo's alternate art boards--which have been plucked from the DC vault and fully restored and remastered--this reedited version of A Death in the Family, Book Three turns the Dark Knight's greatest tragedy into a moment of triumph. 

Batman #428 (alternate version)