#which is a part of his dynamic with lestat

[pynkhues]

Interesting idea about Marius maybe being noticeably taller than both Lestat and Armand. I haven't read the books and I've been thinking that it doesn't matter what Marius looks like, but I've seen some people say that he looks like Lestat and that's important. The show can obviously adapt or not adapt whatever elements of the books it chooses, so it doesn't really matter for the show, but does it matter in the books that Lestat resembles Marius?

Hmm, I don't remember it being super important that Marius and Lestat look alike? But again, I've only read the first five books and I read them a hot minute ago (although I am re-reading TVL now - I just got pulled in again when I was reading sections for this fic, haha, Anne is such a compelling writer).

Marius and Lestat's relationship is fairly unique in the books in the context that they take on a bit of a father + favourite son dynamic. Marius is the one who coins the term 'brat prince' for Lestat (and it's absolutely a term of affection when it comes from him), and he's the one who kiiind of steps in in the way it would've been expected Magnus do of that era of ancient vampires when Lestat tracks him down after leaving Paris and before he goes to New Orleans. Marius also has a bit of a flirtation with Gabrielle and is the one who tells Lestat to go live a human life because he was turned before he got to have one (absolutely hilarious levels of hypocrisy coming from Marius who loved turning children lol) which is a big part of why Lestat settles down with Louis in NOLA as opposed to doing whatever else with him. So yeah - it's very much a quasi fatherly role he steps into with Lestat, at least in the early books.

I do think in that sense that it's important Marius see parts of himself - or at least, traits he wants to have - in Lestat, but I don't from memory think it matters too much in terms of physical appearance? It's more that he needs to be extremely charismatic in a way that's not dissimilar to Lestat (but I'd argue not that similar either - they're very different characters, and I think Marius' persona is a lot more of, well, a persona than Lestat's is). Arguably, it's a part of why Armand effectively imprints on, and has the degree of idolatry that he does for Lestat too.

[existingtm]

A lot of you are gonna hate this, but Dadbastian and Sebaciel are fandomized readings based on the same canon undertones. This is because Sebastian fits the Gothic trope of the parentified predator.

Curiously, his role doesn’t just follow demonic tropes but also takes on a vampiric form. He’s nurturing, yet preys upon the one he nurtures. It’s very reminiscent of a vampire siring a human, yet the end goal in this case is demonic, Sebastian aiming to win their game and claim Ciel’s soul.

Of course Sebastian is perverse. Of course his and Ciel's relationship breaches the boundaries of normalcy. It’s predator and prey, parent and child, sexuality through consumption. 

Sebastian and Ciel’s dynamic embodies much of the Lot complex. Debbie Joyce Chung goes into depth on this concept in her article "SUCH BLOOD, SUCH POWER": THE LOT COMPLEX IN ANNE RICE'S INTERVIEW WITH THE VAMPIRE. To quote some key parts:

“Broadly speaking, both the Gothic tradition and the Lot complex emphasize desire and transgression, subversion and the unconscious, doubling and projection. ‘The horror’ in eighteenth-century Gothic literature often pertains to incest, homosexuality, revolution, the pollution of lineage, and the disruption of linear succession of property” (173). While we’re mostly talking about transgressive sexuality, this excerpt has an interesting note about doubling and projection. Sebastian is absolutely a double for both the twins and their father, projected straight from O!Ciel’s own image.

“[V]ampires procreate, like Lot and his daughters, through a form of incest that involves penetration and the exchange of bodily fluids (blood) with their offspring. Their blood symbolizes life, family, and racial ties; it is the fluid of reproduction, the seed of the father” (174). We see blood and consumption take on this sexual undertone a lot throughout Kuroshitsuji media. While vampires procreate more directly, it’s interesting that Sebastian is forming Ciel in his own image.

“Through vampires the Lot complex transcends normal male-female gender categories, for vampires do not engage in genital sex and possess a relatively gender-free perspective” (174). The relevance of this is also pretty evident. Ciel and Sebastian are often queered from a gender perspective, whether in form of dress, pronoun or title use, mannerisms, etc. I would also argue that Sebastian is asexual (I even have a whole analysis drafted about why that is), and Ciel could be read as such too. Sexuality between them takes place in wholly inhuman terms (feeding and ownership).

Hold onto your hats, because I’m about to quote a quote within a quote when Chung describes how Claudia “is simultaneously innocent and monstrous, a literal and literary construct of our culture's anxious vacillations ‘between perceptions of children as little angels and as little monsters [. . .] sexually attuned, sometimes even predatory’ (Warner qtd. in Edmundson 34)” (175). We can see this perception forced on Ciel throughout Kuroshitsuji. This perception is reserved for children and women, once again demonstrating the queered element. Not only is Ciel the victim, he’s also the corrupted young maiden of the narrative, innocent and monstrous all at once.

“Incest is not limited to the physical: Lestat and Louis commit ‘emotional incest’ upon Claudia as she ‘grows up’; to them she is a magnificent and deadly ‘magic doll’ upon which they can lavish presents and affection (Interview 103). They dress her exquisitely in the latest children's fashions, disguising her as ‘a golden-haired child, a Holy Innocent, a little girl’ to fool her sentimental mortal victims, usually kindly, admiring adults (Interview 116)” (175–176). This one’s also pretty self-explanatory. Sebastian takes far more pleasure in dolling Ciel up than would be normal, especially when Ciel uses the guise as a means of deceiving enemies.

“Interview follows the Lot myth's subversive pattern of the powerless achieving power, but it is a Gothic novel, so Lot strikes back in a horrific return of the repressed. Nothing more is heard of the biblical Lot after the incest episode, but Lestat twice reappears to terrorize and punish his rebellious offspring. Both of his attempts are thwarted by enormous fires, reminiscent of the purgation of Sodom and Gomorrah by fire and brimstone, that enable the culprits to escape” (177). Notably, Toboso utilizes purgation by fire often in Kuroshitsuji, which doesn’t necessarily implicate the Lot complex, but it does, intentionally or not, mimic the biblical punishment.

“The incest between Lestat and Claudia is therefore a Gothic version of the incest between Lot and his daughters. It is committed not for the positive end of ensuring the survival of the human race, but for the negative ends of revenge and domination, rape and patricide. . . . Claudia's story has neither happy endings nor beginnings. Forced reenactment of the original incest is Claudia's weapon of vengeance, expropriation/preservation of the father's seed/blood her goal. The pattern of victimization and incest comes full circle, as Louis senses beforehand” (177–178). Another part of the Lot complex is the ultimate turning-back of this predation on the predator. I’m curious to see if Toboso will adopt this as well, but we’ll just have to wait and see. I personally think it would be really interesting if rather than condemning Ciel to lose his soul, or alternatively saving his soul, Toboso instead turns Sebastian’s own predation back on him.

“There is no escape from Sodom and Gomorrah, but the fascination of Interview, like that of Lot's wife, is that it looks back to them longingly, and envisions as strangely beautiful and passionate and tragic, the doomed cities and their now immortalized inhabitants” (180). This conclusion would make for an apt summary of Toboso’s story. As Louis narrates his Lot family tragedy, so does Sebastian—immortal, horrid, otherworldly, monstrous, beautiful.

Kuroshitsuji embodies many Gothic themes. It makes sense that Sebastian and Ciel’s dynamic blurs between familial and sexual. This is super common in the Gothic, but I think Kuroshitsuji’s Western audience, for the most part, isn’t really in touch with the genre’s history. As such, a more fandom-typical interpretation emerges. If the reader dislikes taboo themes, they choose the safety of the found family trope. If the reader likes engaging with taboo themes but more from a fandom perspective than an analytical one, they may romanticize the dynamic to suit fandom shipping tropes. Either way, the original character dynamic is lost to some extent.

Sebastian and Ciel’s identities become more entangled as the story progresses. We’ll likely continue to see their relationship cross boundaries of normalcy, and as the end nears, something will have to give. Who will be the monster? Who will be the victim? Will anyone be able to escape this enticing hell they’ve created? I can’t wait to find out.

[heliza24]

I want to talk a little bit about Daniel in the Interview with the Vampire show, because the new trailer material has me stuck thinking about him, and also I’ve never written about how meaningful he is as disabled character to me before.

I don’t see many people thinking about show!Daniel in these terms, but he’s a canon disabled character. And I think the way he is written is just SO good. The acerbic wit, his relationship to doctors and his medication, his rueful acceptance of the way his disability has changed him. It is all so correct!! It’s really incredibly rare to have not only a disabled character written this well but specifically a chronically ill character written this well. His illness is always present; it doesn’t get forgotten about by the story. It gives Daniel insight into the vampires (more on this in a min), but it also gives Louis and Armand leverage over him. When Louis triggers his Parkinson’s symptoms? Deeply not ok. But that’s what made it such a great scene, and really made Louis feel dangerous and threateningin that moment. Armand and Louis arranging Daniel’s meds is a sign of great care and also great power over Daniel. It’s the perfect way to communicate the complicated power dynamic in their relationship.

I also just fucking love that this show takes place in 2022 and doesn’t erase the pandemic. Covid is a very present concern for Daniel and I cannot describe how validating that is for me as someone who is clinically vulnerable to Covid and who has had to really limit my life and take a lot of precautions because everyone else has decided to stop caring whether they pass on Covid or not. The fact that Daniel gets on a plane to Dubai is a BIG DEAL. He’s risking his life to talk to Louis and Armand before he’s even in the room with them. He really wants to be there. I have to make a similar calculation every time I travel, and trust me, getting on that plane knowing getting sick could spiral you into even worse health or kill you is really hard.

I think making Daniel disabled and including the pandemic is kind of a genius level decision on a thematic level. Of course Daniel is now facing down his mortality, which gives him a whole new lens on the vampires and the fact that he once asked them to turn him. And the pandemic further highlights his fragility, and is also possibly being used as a cover for drama that’s happening in the vampire world. But I think it also really sets Daniel up as a foil to Louis.

There’s a lot of analysis of the vampire chronicles that reads vampirism as a metaphor for queerness. But I would actually propose that it’s a much neater parallel for disability and illness in a lot of ways. So many of Louis’s initial experiences after being turned resonated with me, as someone who became chronically ill in my 20s. My appetite and relationship to food completely changed, much like Louis. My relationship with the outdoors and the sun changed, because of dysautonomia and allergy reasons. I was very mad, and very depressed, and I too have missed out on birthday parties and big life events like Louis did because I was too sick to go. Hell, you can even say that the way that Louis is treated as evil by his family, that the way vampires literally can’t be a part of society during the day, is reminiscent of ableist exclusion and ugly laws. (Ugly laws were laws that forbid disabled people, especially those with visible differences, from being out in public, and they were on the books in many American municipalities until the 1970s.) You can look at Lestat being an out and proud vampire in the first few episodes on the season and imploring Louis to leave his shame behind as a queer thing, but you can also view it as a disabled thing. Disabled people are portrayed as monstrous so often (and in a way that has gone relatively unexamined compared to say, the queer coded villain trope) that sometimes it’s just easier to embrace that label: I’m the monstrous Crip, but at least I’m not ashamed of or disgusted by who I am anymore.

I do think the real strength of this adaptation is that while you can find parallels between queerness or disability or other forms of marginalization with vampirism, ultimately it’s not a one-to-one parallel. It speaks to the real world but ultimately it is a gothic horror story about supernatural monsters. So I don’t mean to say that vampirism directly equals disability, because it does not. But I do think that making Daniel disabled was an intentional choice to help draw out some of those parallels, and I think the text is richer for it.

So Louis and Daniel have had these kind of parallel experiences of uncontrollable and difficult things happening to their bodies. It sets them up perfectly as foils, and even, I would argue, as the A plot and B Plot protagonists. This is one of my favorite ways of kind of examining the structure of a TV show (or maybe it’s that most of my favorite shows seem to be structured this way?). When TV was all episodic, it would be common to refer to the A plot (mystery of the week), B plot (interpersonal drama happening as the mystery gets solved) and C plot (any overarching plot tying the season together) in an episode. Now that stuff is serialized, there’s often a main protagonist, who has the main dramatic question and the most agency, and then there is often a secondary B plot that explores similar themes and mirrors the A plot, or presents a second main character who is the ldifferent side of the same coin” to the main protagonist. (My favorite example of this is Flint and Max in Black Sails, and I’ve also made the argument that Wilhelm and Sara fit this pattern in Young Royals.) In IwtV, Louis is obviously the main protagonist of the show, especially in the A Plot, which is the stuff taking place in New Orleans/Paris. But I would argue that Daniel is the protagonist of the B Plot set in Dubai. At the very least they’re intentionally set up as mirrors of each other:

They are both unreliable narrators, who are struggling with the way memory contorts (through memory erasure, illness, deliberate obfuscations, and just the passage of time). The most recent teaser trailer, where we hear Louis saying “I don’t remember that”, with panic in his voice, further underlined this similarity between Louis and Daniel to me. I don’t know if it means that Louis has also had his memory tampered with, as I’m assuming Daniel has, but I do think it means that Louis is going to be struggling with feeling out of control of his own narrative more in season 2, a thing that was already starting for Daniel in season 1.

They are also both locked into power struggles with people more powerful than they are. The fact that Louis is under Lestat in the flashbacks and above Daniel in the Dubai scenes in terms of power/status makes it all the more interesting. And, if we want to go ahead and assume that the Devils Minion’s years have happened in the past by the time we get to Dubai— it’s possible that both Daniel and Louis are united in being the less powerful partner in their own respective fucked up gothic romances.

They’re also both the audience’s entry point into their respective stories. Louis’s narration guides us into the world of vampires. Daniel’s questioning satisfies our human curiosity in Dubai.

I think one of the things that makes the show so special is the way that these two protagonists interact. In a lot of shows the a plot and the b plot stay pretty separate. I love talking about Black Sails for this because I think it’s such a good example; Flint and Max never exchange dialogue the entire show, even though they’re so clearly affecting each other the whole time. But the way that Louis and Daniel clash in Dubai is so exciting. We see them both wrestling for control of the narrative. It’s thrilling to watch and it just hammers home the theme of how complicated and changeable stories can be.

I am SO excited to see how the Dubai scenes play out in season 2 because of it. I really can’t wait. I’m really hoping we’ll see Daniel and Louis’s relationship evolve in surprising ways, and I’m holding my breath that we’ll get a lot of Armandaniel material to work with. (I have a whole other post drafted that’s much less smart than this one and is just me waxing poetic about Devil Minion’s theories which I may post at some point. You have been warned.)

I do have two wishes for Daniel in the new season, and they’re 1: that he gets to have romance/sex, because disabled (and older!) characters are so often seen as unworthy of being desired, and I would like to see that challenged and 2: that he continues to refuse to be turned/is not offered a vampiric cure for Parkinson’s. The magic cure for a disability or chronic illness is probably my least favorite disability trope, because it serves to erase disabled characters and representation from the narrative, and I want to see my experiences continue to be reflected in Daniel’s. That means that whatever ending Daniel’s story has will probably have at least a bit of tragedy baked into it, but I’m ok with that.

[danlous]

Months of reading how Armand is the Big Bad man behind the curtain manipulating and mindcontrolling everyone with his godlike powers, and now suddenly in one day it switched to cruel Pimp Louis manipulating and enslaving Armand and Armand being his poor victim. I'm begging you to look at these characters and their relationships with some nuance. I'm not denying that Louis is trying to manipulate Armand in some moments (Jacob said it himself in the post-episode bit) but seeing that park scene as Louis intentionally evoking Armand's trauma and a pimp and slave assuming their old roles is in my opinion a stretch and i didn't read it that way. Tbh i also find it pretty offensive that some people are acting like when Louis was a pimp he was doing something similar to people who subjected Armand to literal sexual slavery because they're vastly different situations.

Arun isn't Armand's 'slave name' or 'prostitute name', it was his actual birth name before he was sold and abused, and he lost that name due to abuse. If Louis had actually wanted to push a master-slave dynamic he would've probably called Armand Amadeo, because that was the name Armand's abuser, who Armand served and in some way still loves, gave to him. When Louis was a pimp he notably also didn't actually act particularly domineering with sex workers, on the contrary he was usually friendly to them, because he felt guilty for exploiting women and tried to convince himself he was just helping and working with them and that they were equals. He made sex workers like Bricktop Williams minority owners of his business and they felt comfortable with criticizing him. If Louis had actually 'treated Armand like one of his prostitutes' in this episode he would've acted completely differently. Remember also that Armand has a remarkable mind gift and that Louis is bad at hiding his thoughts: if Louis had actually been trying to manipulate Armand in this specific way, Armand would very likely know it.

In the beginning of the episode Armand is frustrated that Louis doesn't acknowledge that they're companions, and Louis expresses that they don't really know each other. Later at the restaurant Armand gets angry and uses his powers dramatically which upsets Louis. He also talks to Louis rather harshly, saying that he and Santiago are acting like fledglings (children) and angrily tells Louis to come back when he leaves. Later Armand comes to apologize bringing flowers. All this reminds Louis of Lestat, and reveals how apprehensive he still is about Armand. Armand deciding to tell Louis his story is a conscious effort to show vulnerability and convince Louis of what he promised: that Armand isn't like Lestat and he isn't going to hurt him. Jacob said that dreamstat represents not only Lestat but Louis' doubts about Armand. In the museum scene this is particularly obvious when Louis feels deep sympathy for Armand, but at the same time dreamstat - a part of Louis - looks angry and distrustful. According to Jacob in the park scene as Louis lets go of Lestat he's also letting go of those doubts and accepting Armand as he is and for who he is.

So when Louis calls Armand by his birth name that could be considered his 'real' name even though no one has called him that for centuries, i see it as him saying 'Do we see each other now? Are we honest about things now? Can i trust that you are who you say you are?' When Armand calls Louis maitre he's trying to establish an impression of equality, because as they both know Armand is the maitre and the leader of the coven and the one with much more power. For Armand the ideal of love is the one of mutual worship and servitude. Like many things with Armand, his actions in this episode are both sincere and manipulative, and his seeming submissiveness is also certain kind of domination that helps him to get what he wants.

I just don't think their relationship is anything like Louis being a master and Armand being a slave at all. It's a very, very complicated and mercurial relationship that is not easily defined and where the dynamics are constantly shifting. As Jacob said, they're constantly flip-flopping between who's the dominant one and who's the submissive one, and who needs what out of the other. He also said that at the end of this episode their relationship takes on this almost BDSM kind of role playing where their roles switch, which implies that a) it's a play and not what their relationship is actually like and b) there was earlier a different dynamic where Armand was more dominant. Their Rashid role play in Dubai was also that, a role play.

When talking about those Louis' 'manipulative instincts' as Jacob called them, it needs to be considered they're something that Louis developed having to live in a racist society for all his life ("using his weakness to rise") and being in an abusive relationship for decades. For Louis that kind of soft power has often been the only power he has, and of course he's resorting to it when in a relationship with much older and much more powerful person he doesn't fully trust. The way i perceive Louis and Armand's relationship, it's a fragile, carefully crafted design built on contradictions, performances and illusions, where they both seek to maintain a fantasy where they both feel sufficiently in control and the relief of releasing that control at the same time

[yesimwriting]

Do you think whether Louis shares this past family at all?

I imagine it’d hard to talk about Claudia being that he doesn’t really acknowledge vampirism, and it plays such a huge part with her whole stunned body, the broken laws, and the coven. Not to mention Claudia took pride in being vampire and was phenomenal at it.

Also, I think about the conflict with his late human family. Paul’s death was crazy af, and the blame he got for it. The whole Graces’s baby thing. Him watching his family mourning his death.

I know he had to tell Daniel in order for the book to happen, but how much could he possibly tell the reader?

OMG what if she could create a painting with Louis and late (actually dead, not undead) his loved ones, that he either didn’t have a lot of photos of or they were lost in time.

Ohhhh this is such a good question/ask 😭 I've been thinking through their dynamic in relation to this for such a long time.

The painting idea are you kidding me 😭. That's such a great idea and something she'd definitely do/try to piece together based on any remaining photos and Louis's description.

Okay so, onto what Louis has told her. Louis has definitely told her about everyone/everything at least once. He trusts bestie reader sm and he wants her to know that, and also they're together so much it'd be kind of hard for certain things to never come up.

However, Louis isn't consistent with the level of details he provides. Bestie reader knows more about Lestat and Louis's fights and the complexities of their relationship more than anyone else. He's told her things about Lestat he's never even mentioned to Armand. Some of this is intentional, but sometimes it's just bc they're both drunk (or on other substances) and he's thinking about it and she's serving as an outlet.

Also, because I'm a firm believer that no matter how separated Louis is from Lestat, he still loves him, he talks about Lestat a lot bc it's the closest he can get to reader meeting Lestat. In some ways, reader knowing Lestat is this fantasy Louis has that he's incapable of acknowledging, but I digress.

Anyways, back to Louis's inconsistency in detail. Some of what he leaves out is because of his memory and limited perspective (kind of like what we see in the show), and other things are left on purpose. He's so afraid of reader seeing him how he sees himself, so he'd never directly address how he failed Claudia. For example, he'd tell reader about how Claudia came to be and the age that she was turned and how hard it was for her, but he'd never talk about all the ways that he made her existence harder.

Claudia is also a difficult topic for him to discuss with reader because while he doesn't see reader as Claudia, he sometimes sees a little bit of Claudia in her. Sometimes when they're really happy, Louis remembers the early years when things still seemed like they could work out. When reader wants to do things that make him nervous, he sees the ways in which he could have tried harder to keep Claudia safe. When the reader is happy and in her element (like at an art gallery), he sees what Claudia might have been.

He censors himself the most when talking about Armand. Partially because of how controlling Armand is, but also because of reader and Armand's dynamic. Armand's behavior around bestie reader is visibly different, he's more restrained, almost gentle. If Louis were to tell reader about some of the things Armand has done, she'd start seeing Armand as a monster, and Armand wouldn't feel the need to play nice anymore bc her mental image of him is already ruined.

Louis is not risking reader's safety and peace to tell her about things like Armand's torture era in the 70's.

Also, Louis isn't planning on leaving Armand so it's kind of like when the person your dating has seriously wronged you but you can't tell your friends bc then they'd hate them too much. AND reader would probably try to slap Armand or something if she knew everything, and Louis doesn't think Armand's patience with her will extend that far.

I think Louis is very back and forth on mentioning his family to bestie reader. Stories about them are, by far, the least dangerous, but they also make him think about things in certain ways. Sometimes it's weirdly healing to be able to tell her about the way that his family viewed him and other times it's nauseating.

I think he'd talk about Paul's absence the most, but he wouldn't delve into the details of what happened if that makes sense. Like he talks about his feelings over Paul's death, but he divides his emotions from the chain of events that caused them. Tbh that's how he handles most discussions of grief.

Okay, some new bestie reader lore that you have no way of knowing about because I haven't written it into existence yet that's super relevant to this question, but part of the reason that reader lets Louis get away with being relatively 'cagey' about certain aspects of his grief is bc she's doing the same thing.

Not to drop crazy lore here, but in my head, bestie reader lost someone important to her a little before she met Louis. In some ways, she feels similarly to what Louis feels, in the sense that sometimes she's scared that she's replacing the person she lost with Louis. However, her grief is much more plain sadness than actual guilt, and so she assumes that Louis doesn't want to talk about certain things because it's hard and not bc of vampire self hatred/guilt.

Louis also knows that there's someone reader isn't talking about enough because he pays attention to how she acts, but also because he can see into her thoughts. I do think he works hard at actively giving her mental privacy, but at times he gets really worried or her thoughts are particularly loud bc she's distracted or overwhelmed and he hears things.

So basically, to an extent, they're living in a mutual denial. I have an idea for a drabble/fic where this is forced to end and they talk about a lot of things, and if you'd be interested in that pls lmk!

Also, slightly off topic, but a big part of the reason he keeps anything from reader is rooted in a subconscious self hatred. Bestie reader is going to get Louis to love himself or die trying, and I'm so serious. As the story progresses, bestie reader is going to lock in and get Louis to feel less guilty about what he is.

He's actually so delusional, so convinced that any blunt conversation about vampirism could be the thing that pushes reader away. In reality, reader does not gaf about him being a vampire. She is generally curious about vampires, but she thinks everything about Louis is so much more interesting.

That's her Louis, and if she walked in on him actively draining seven people at once she'd just be like 'sometimes I need a late night snack too'. She'd actually become a vampire activist if it meant Louis would feel better about himself.

[pynkhues]

brat lestat and brat tamer louis are literally so dear to me 😩😩 i love how you always write that aspect of each other and as a couple so well in your stories and to a degree that is so in character and realistic, thank you for your writing always 🤩

Ah! You're so welcome, anon, and thank you! I have a lot of fun with it, and I personally feel it's authentic to them as a dynamic (particularly with Lestat never really being in control of himself, as Sam said in the recent press events, which I think comes through in the show too, and Louis, in my interpretation, needing a degree of control over himself, his life and how he interacts with those around him to be not only empowered / rooted in himself, but to be happy). I don't know, it makes sense to me, and I'm always so thrilled to hear that the way I write it makes sense for others too.

[oedipalcomplexes]

I think it’s really a somewhat unfortunate thing for people to be so weird and racist about louis exploring his sexuality and kink as a black gay man in paris (and jacob talks sooo extensively about james baldwin’s influence on his character this season) after escaping his abusive white father-maker-lover (one of the first things he tells people in paris is that he’s still trying to discover himself). why wouldn’t he want to step out of the role of the subservient suffering wife that lestat forced him to play and enjoy pushing against the constraints forced on him by the maker-fledging + white master-black lover dynamics without those specific power dynamics overshadowing his romantic relationships. there’s a lot of conversation about armand’s trauma informing his sexual preferences but you have to understand that this happened with louis too to a certain degree even if I personally feel it just comes down to his personal preference at the end of the day. the show is explicit about one thing - armand did feel safe sharing his history and ceding control to louis under consensual circumstances which are probably not things he’s ever done even when he had sexual relationships with other members of the parisian coven. a relationship with louis gave him the freedom he needed to extricate himself from the confining circumstances of coven life and the job he didn’t particularly enjoy.

the relationship having undercurrents of complex issues that inform their dynamic and lay bare their vulnerabilities and flaws isn’t something to comment upon uniquely just because they have an established dom/sub dynamic. there are a lot of angles informing the dynamic they settle into besides just their trauma because the show is specifically trying to make a lot of other commentary. armand seeking a master and lover and god in louis in vain because of his history with marius (and probably informed by the part he played in claudia’s death) is just as significant as him constantly micromanaging louis who’s treated like the metaphorical mad woman in the attic with mental illnesses who’s confined for her own safety. louis’ own worship of lestat’s masculinity, his desire to ascend the capitalist hierarchy, and his familial roles often acting as an extension of the patriarchal ones you see him engage in with his mother and sister and claudia are just as useful tools to examine the subtext in their relationship besides just. trauma lol.

at the end of the day it’s literally fine for louis to enjoy being a dom in their relationship. I think I hate the concept of louis being a suffering dom enduring the dynamic for armand even more because it seeks to apply moral judgement to anybody who takes on a more dominant role during, what is after all, just sex. a lot of people didn’t really absorb louis really enjoying cultivating a dom/sub relationship with 70s daniel, I guess.

[nerdmutant]

i may be wrong but doesn't it feel like turning daniel is armand's first "free" decision?

like think about it

at first he was an enslaved child

turned by marius

the cult comes along

then lestat happens (and maybe he gets some sort of agency there, but we know how dominant lestat's personality is)

then he is acting in favor of the théâtre (even through his relationship with louis)

the play, the trial, everything surrounding claudia, he did to keep his place, to maintain a certain status quo because he's terrified to live outside of it

after this he feels guilty, he gives himself to louis as a way of maintaining the same power dynamic he had been living under even in this new environment

he goes from master to master, that's the way he has always lived, everything he does is for the sake of maintaining control -which he can only do if there are specific rules he has to follow

enter twenty-year old daniel molloy

the structure he has (re)created for himself is falling apart in one night -no doubt the consequence of many other things going wrong, but it's easy to blame daniel because he is right there

and louis -who calls him boring in contrast to this fascinating boy- is crumbling down along with their relationship, along with the structure (which, just like louis, just like all his "masters" before, has always been unstable)

armand is only barely able to keep all of this from crashing down in the 70's (thanks to mind control and how powerful he is as a vampire)

but the problem™ comes back to bite him in the ass -again, because this structure is as stable as his mental stability- again in the shape of daniel molloy

and when louis finds out the truth and kicks him out, armand has no more master, no more structure, no more safety

he is terrifyingly free for the first time in his life

and what is the first thing he does with that freedom?

turn daniel

and -again, in my opinion- this is not revenge

daniel wanted to be turned, he saw it as a gift, he had wanted to be turned back then and he wanted to be turned now

back then armand would've killed him (he almost did) but now he is free, alone and scared, but free

and the first thing he chooses to do with that freedom is give daniel the gift he has wanted for the most part of his life

[jayktoralldaylong]

There have been crossovers with Interview with the Vampire and Sinners, and those are always fun to see. I love ‘em. 🥰 Mary and Stack with Claudia, meeting Louis and Lestat and competing for sexiest biracial vampire couple. There’s also just the fun scenarios of how it would play out if these very different vampires interacted.

Like, how would Smoke and Louis relate to each other as the ‘big brothers that failed’. Would they judge each other harshly for making the same mistake in different ways? How would Mary and Claudia connect on not truly belonging, with Claudia frozen as a youth and Mary who could never blend in with the culture that raised her. Just all those fun little conversations.

And I see people try to fit Remmick in one way or another, sometimes pairing him with Lestat, which sounds like a match made in hell in a way that’s somehow worse than every other dynamic in IWTV. There is just no way that would ever work. 💀

But you know what? Nothing made sense like when someone mentioned Remmick and Armand.

Oooooooooh.

Remmick and Armand. Now that…is art. I want to see those two characters interact because I love how they sort of reflect each other in a both really clean and really ugly way.

Cause Remmick is a vampire who is hundreds of years old. He is ancient. So ancient that he has lost the people he grew up with, the language they used to speak, the songs they used to sing, the places they used to go. All of that has been erased by time. All of the time that he’s existed works against him and he is alienated from his culture because it has slowly disappeared, evolved and changed while he is stuck either standing still or sacrificing the parts of himself that matter so that he can better blend in with the Americans, and this makes him lose more and more of his core identity until there is more vampire than Irish man left.

And then on the contrast you have Armand….who was betrayed by his culture (going by the show, not the books). I mean, his parents dumped him first hand on that human trafficking ship. They did not look back. They dropped him and they ran and he was bundled away. Assuming he was sold to an Indian brothel house, he was still young when Marius came and picked him up and trained him to be his pet. Unlike Remmick, Armand is old but he is not too far removed from his culture. He knows the language, he knows the people, but he has no attachment to it because he was never allowed to truly be a part of it. 🥺 What he became instead was an extension of the will of Marius, and after Marius, he became the extension of whatever it was that people wanted him to be, what they needed him to be.

A puppet.

Remmick is going about physically, pleading his case from house to house, changing his accent, his way of speaking, his posture, his story, his words. He is becoming so many different people at once in the same way that Armand keeps switching masks depending on which role people require him to play, and they’re both conforming to achieve acceptance, yet at the end, that acceptance crumbles because they are both also dead-set on remaining in control. 💀

They think the control will protect them. Armand manipulating Louis, Remmick destroying Sammy’s family one by one instead of just ASKING him to play music. 💀 And all their need to maintain control does is destroy the thing that they are so badly trying to cling to.

Two hands reaching out, trying to hold on to someone, praying that someone will hold on to them. And people try. People try to comfort them because they are so pitiful and so alone. But their grip is vice tight and their claws dig in because they are scared of letting go of any kind of control, because they know how terribly it hurt when they did not have control (Armand as a sex slave and Remmick oppressed by colonialism), and yet they’re so stupid that they don’t truly realize that they’re doing that same thing to others. And that is exactly why they keep losing.

[heliza24]

Armand and Unbreakable Cycles

So (perhaps unsurprisingly at this point) I have a TON of Armand thoughts after yesterday’s episode. Specifically I want to talk about the function of the 1790s section, and how it perfectly illuminates the cycle of maladaptive behavior that Armand is caught up in and the difference between his stated wants and his actual needs. I think the setup we saw in this episode will also be crucial to understanding how Dubai plays out, so I want to talk about that too.

I know a lot of people love the show and TVC because of Lestat, and there’s some frustration that Lestat was presented in a way that was untrue or filtered. But I really think you have to view this episode as a lens into Armand, which we in turn need in order to understand Louis. Everyone has someone similar to Lestat’s role in Armand’s life; an ex or a situationship or a former friend who takes up so much real estate in your brain because of their outsized impact  on you, who probably never thinks of you in return. We give these people a role in the story we craft of how we became who we are. That narrativizing is kind of the only way to understand yourself and survive (especially if you’re going to live forever). So I don’t doubt that there are things that Armand says that are untrue, or exaggerated, or twisted in his favor. But I do think the important part is the emotional impact his encounter with Lestat had on him, and I do think he’s being honest about those emotions.

(That being said I am of course very excited to see these events play out again in season 3 from Lestat’s POV. Don’t fuck it up AMC!!!)

The main thing that the flashback does is set up the cycle that Armand finds himself in over and over again. He consistently finds himself clinging to control in an institution he is starting to lose faith in, and is then shaken out of his complacency by a new love that seems– falsely– to rescue him.

Depending on how they adapt his very early backstory, I think we can probably assume that this pattern started in childhood for him. Marius rescued him from being forced into sex work, and seemed to offer a much better life. But in reality he was just grooming Armand. (Thanks @toriangeli for correcting a piece of my Marius lore here!)

In Paris he continues maintaining a strictly enforced life of misery for the coven long after he stops believing in it himself, and (by his telling at least) he was grateful to Lestat for having the strength to end it when he could not. It’s so clear why Armand falls for Lestat. Lestat’s refusal to live in shame, his love of the arts, his ability to exist amongst humanity (at least when he is on stage). Lestat is of the world, while Armand and the coven hide from it. 

The reason I think it is so important that we got to see this play out in Paris is the way it illuminates the sometimes tricky relationship between Louis and Armand. Once again, Armand is the head of an institution that operates on strict and oppressive rules. Once again, we can feel Armand’s enthusiasm for this system waning (and see it reflected physically in the lack of ticket sales and general shabbiness of the theatre). And once again, Armand is swept off his feet by this new vampire who refuses to join, who loves humanity, and who has a passion for art. Louis is very much of the world. He refuses to be pinned down into coven life. Armand can’t resist taking what looks like the opportunity for escape in Louis’s love. 

What I think is so fascinating about this cycle is that it allows Armand to remain passive. He never has to be the one to make the hard call to walk away from a kind of life that is no longer serving him. He just has to wait for the next gorgeous man to arrive to deliver him.  As he says to Louis, “those with the most power are often the weakest”. His status and power in the coven prevents him from changing his own life. Or at least that’s what he believes. 

Thinking about this helped me understand the dynamic of what goes down in the sewers, when Armand threatens Louis’s life. Assad says in the behind the scenes clips that Armand goes into that encounter very set on killing Louis, and I believe him.  So I rewatched it a couple of times trying to understand when, and why, Armand changes his mind. The shift occurs when they start talking about Claudia, and Armand says that her mind will break apart soon because she was made too young. Louis says “you don’t know her,” and Armand responds, “I don’t have to. I’ve seen it before. I’ve seen too much.” That admission– I’ve lived through this cycle multiple times before, it is painful, and I don’t want to do it again– is what shifts Armand from being ready to kill Louis to letting him go. 

There is of course an irony here; mentally ill and child vampires do not necessarily need to go mad. Generally they go mad at least partially because of Armand’s actions. And as we’ve already discussed, Armand going to sleep with Louis instead of killing him is really just a repeat of his actions with Lestat. He isn’t really breaking a cycle at all. But I think in that moment he believes that he is. Maybe he even believes that by being with a man who enacted great violence on Lestat, he can drown out the love and anguish he still feels about Lestat. At the very least, Louis has also loved Lestat and can therefore understand Armand’s narration of his own life in a way that not many other people can. 

Ok, so now we are caught up on the past. Let’s talk about Dubai, and how once again Armand is engaged in the exact same cycle of behavior.

The penthouse is Armand’s new coven. He maintains perfect order by controlling the physical environment and shaping Louis’s moods and memories. But just like before, this way of life is no longer serving Armand (or Louis for that matter). You can see that the spark between them has died, only rekindled as a kind of performance when they are in front of Daniel. When Armand is telling Daniel about Lestat destroying the coven, and Daniel accuses Armand of leading Lestat to the coven intentionally… he might as well be talking about himself. Armand has let Daniel into his fortress, and there is at least a part of him that wants whatever destruction Daniel is about to bring into his life.

Daniel fits Armand’s type completely. Daniel is of course more human than Lestat or Louis could ever be. He knows about telenovelas and Bollywood and all other types of art. He’s whipsmart and inquisitive and is not going to let Armand get away with passively maintaining his old order. He’s of the world in a way that Armand finds irresistible. 

I specifically found it interesting how many of the “Great Laws” Armand would be breaking by being with Daniel. Granted, Armand isn’t in the coven anymore when he meets Daniel. But I imagine old habits are hard to break, and being with Daniel would break almost all of them. Daniel is a mortal Armand has revealed his true nature to and allowed to live, Daniel has written about and exposed vampire secrets, and (if we’re looking at book canon) Daniel begs for the dark gift himself, a thing only the maitre is supposed to be able to approve. 

Assuming that a chunk of Devil’s Minion did happen in the 1970s, something interrupted that love affair, before it could settle back down into a new but still oppressive status quo. Something prompted Armand to actively break his pattern of behavior and erase Daniel’s memories. I think it’s impossible not to think about Nicki’s example here, especially after seeing the 1790s flashback. I’m going to assume that 1970s Daniel was struggling with addiction and mental health issues in a way that may have been reminiscent of Nicki. How intentional was Armand in withdrawing because he saw what vampire involvement- his involvement- did to Nicki? How much was his treatment of Daniel a reparation for past mistakes he made?

These last couple of paragraphs are speculation, really, because we won’t know exactly what Armandaniel looked like until Ep 5. But I think it was crucial that we saw this part of Armand’s story before we see San Francisco, because his actions with Daniel will make more sense if we can compare them with the love affairs of Armand’s past.

Regardless, I do think the disparity between what Armand claims to want (maintaining the status quo) vs what he actually wants (to be liberated by a romantic partner) vs what I think he actually needs (to take action himself, instead of waiting for someone to do it for him) is going to play a role in the way Dubai unfolds. I don’t know that Armand will ever get to the point where he’s actively able to break out of the cycle he’s in, because this is Interview with the Vampire, the show of fucked up gothic romances. Vampire life is a series of bad decisions! It’s a weird arrested development you never quite get out of despite living for forever! So it would make total sense if the ending of Dubai mimics the ending of the Children of Satan and the Paris Coven in an unhealthy way. But regardless, it’s gonna be a fun ride, and I can’t wait to see it.

[yusiyomogi]

i think when louis says that lestat was his "murderer, mentor, lover and maker" all parts of this are equally important in the eventual failing of their relationship and louis' struggles as a vampire. i mean, aside from obvious power imbalance and complete shift of louis' support system onto one person. and the one role that's discussed the least, i think, is the "mentor" one.

vampirism in iwtv is usually discussed as clear-cut queer allegory, where the struggle of louis to accept his nature depicted in parallel with his struggle to accept himself as a gay man. but i feel like vampirism represented more than one thing for him and definitely represented more than one thing in the narrative. one of those things is that louis saw vampirism as yet another role he was expected to fill and couldn't. he felt like "a botched vampire", as he said hundred years later. "i'm never gonna get control over it", "i can't do it", "throw me into incinerator and make another one", "afraid to disappoint" etc.

there's a continuous thread of guilt for never meeting lestat's expectations of him, which i think culminated in the end of s1e2, where lestat lost patience and yelled at him for not accepting his nature. lestat didn't understand the whole complexity of the issue, but obviously he couldn't read louis' thoughts anymore. and then lestat's antagonism makes louis put up the defense mechanism, where he basically "rebels" against lestat's way of life, similar to a teenager who rebels against expectations of their parents or teachers they can't meet.

a large part of it ofc that louis did grow up with a lot of impossible expectations placed on him, many difficult roles to fill. we see that he was a constant disappointment for his mother, never "enough" for her, not even when he had to do something horrible to keep her financially safe. she never accepted his sexuality and everything connected to it, like him not getting married or not being enough of a man in the eyes of society. the way she blames him for paul's death demonstrates the dynamic they've probably had for decades at that point, as louis most likely was the child his parent held all the hopes for and he "failed" each of them, so he was always the one responsible in their eyes.

despite doing his best, despite giving everything to his family, he was never enough. and that's the big thing for him, that why i think that the softest word for claudia he could think of was "it would be enough" for him if she was the last vampire on earth, as this is what he always wanted to hear from his parents, from anyone. and also probably why he - unfairly - felt like she betrayed him when she wanted to leave him for the theatre and then madeleine.

i felt like louis was never truly proud of the way he chose to live, because it was also a defense mechanism, not his true feelings. i think morality of his choice matters very little in the grand scheme of the story, but i also don't think that the problem was that he refused to accept what lestat wanted him to be. the problem was that louis always wanted to be something else, but didn't have the environment and mental state to do this. most of all, the unhealthy choice to stop drinking human's blood was a desperate response to pressure he experienced from all the directions.

[yesimwriting]

hi! I love your writing when it comes to the bestie reader x louis x armand stuff. are you ever going to do like longer fics for that universe? maybe even a story with chapters? either way, keep up the good work x

hi!!

I do have some longer fic ideas for bestie verse that aren't drabbles that would provide some general structure, but I'm not sure bestie-verse works for a full on, multi-chapter series.

've thought a lot about doing a chapter series for the bestie universe and am still considering it, but I'm hesitant because bestie has only been alive for the modern timeline. The show's structure weaves itself through time and a lot of the emotional layers and subtext come from the experiences of the past (which bestie wasn't there for), so I'm struggling to think of a plot for a multi-chapter fic that still focuses on bestie while still feeling connected to the show. (if anyone has ideas on how to make this work pls feel free to share)

I could also write a longer fic for iwtv that's kind of like a bestie AU, where the reader's dynamics with Louis and the other characters remain the same/similar, only reader belongs to a different time period.

I do have a few ideas for that, which I'm putting below the cut in case anyone's curious/interested.

Keep in mind I'm not sold on anything, these are just some longer story concepts I've been thinking about:

I like the idea of bestie existing in the early 1900's and developing a close friendship with Louis. This fic would probably revolve around a lavender marriage and explore a lot of the dysfunctional family dynamics that we see with Louis, Lestat, and Claudia. I'd probably have to condense the timeline a little to fit bestie into it, but I think this could still feel a lot like the show. Armand wouldn't be able to be there until Louis and Claudia murder leave Lestat tho :((

I've recently been thinking about the Paris era and potential fics set during this time. I kind of like the idea of Louis meeting reader there, befriending her, and accidentally getting her involved in some of the coven drama. I can also see a potential fic where bestie came to France with Louis and Claudia and already having her be a part of their group. In general, I'd love to be able to write about Armand's coven leader era.

Pls don't judge these concepts too harshly, I haven't really planned anything out for them, they're very much in the idea stage <3

[pynkhues]

Idk if uve discussed this before, im new haha but I really enjoy your readings of the show and I’m curious, would u call louis a femme? Idk i think it’s a widely accepted canon in the fandom and i constantly see it spread all over twitter with no argument whatsoever and im over here like i.. i dont see it?? Idk!

Hey! Welcome, anon! And thank you for your kind words! You’re very sweet!

I think I’ve probably discussed it in fragments before, but not outright said it, but no, I wouldn’t call Louis a femme. It’s certainly a largely accepted fanon in a vocal part of the fandom, particularly on Twitter and ao3, and yeah - - I mean. I’m really glad people are having fun with it! I do also sometimes feel they’re watching a different show to me though, because it’s honestly not something I see at all. I don’t know if their arguments are necessarily organized in the one place (although I could be very wrong in terms of that!) but I might use this as an opportunity to collate my thoughts and the previous posts I’ve made addressing the arguments around this particular topic. SO! Okay! Let’s break it down and dive in:

Louis is femme because he’s a Gothic Heroine

I just don’t agree with this argument, I’m sorry. I’m not going to get into the weeds of this one, just because I feel like I’ve done so already, but I don’t personally read Louis as a gothic heroine at all. In fact, I see him as a very archetypical Byronic Hero, which I talked about in this post, and in others in my Byronic Hero tag.

Louis is femme because he is a Battered Housewife / relying on a Sugar Daddy

This point often gets tied up into the gothic heroine one, and it’s one that always kind of surprises me a little bit. Even putting aside the fact that it’s an ugly, misogynistic trope in general, Louis’ relationship to being a quote-unquote ‘housewife’ is one that – to me – is symbolic of his feelings of emasculation in the Rue Royale household not as a result of Lestat alone, but as a result of the white power structures in New Orleans that would disempower and disenfranchise him. He doesn’t like it, it doesn’t make him ‘femme��, in fact, my interpretation is the opposite – it emasculates him as a Black Man, and he feels that in every part of his life to the point that both his daughter and sister weaponize it against him, and I personally think it’s a factor in his periodic impotence in his marriage. Respectively, Claudia calls him the housewife, and Grace calls Lestat his white daddy – these aren’t compliments, these are callous insults from both of them designed to bruise his pride and force him into action. The fact that neither of them work to move him the way they want doesn’t mean Louis identifies with them, rather it means he’s – at the time – committed to Lestat for better and worse, but their words compound in a way that fuels his resentment of Lestat as both an adulterous husband and a symbol of everything wrong with his life.

Further to that – and I say it in the Byronic Hero/Gothic Heroine post that I link to above  – but a vital part of power dynamic tropes in gothic literature is that women lose power through marriage, they don’t gain it, and Louis does, in fact, gain it. Lestat’s a ticket to social advancement for Louis because as much as Louis (rightfully! It’s extremely racist!) hates being forced into a servitude role publicly at the theatre or in lease agreements, it’s Lestat’s whiteness that allows Louis into more conversations politically, and eventually allows him to buy the Fair Play Saloon and turn it into The Azaelia. It’s a limited power, of course, as a result of his race and the era, but the show actually explicitly lays out certain things for us like the fact that Louis pays Lestat back in full, and pointedly, that Louis never felt that he had to pay Lestat back at all:

The last line of which is Louis greeting Lestat not as a sugar baby or a housewife walking out to his sugar daddy or husband, but as a business man to his husband.

In fact, the interesting exchange of power in that sequence actually leans to the reverse as Lestat ends up playing host to a new client while Louis lords over an empire.

(You can't see it exactly in these subtitles, but it's Louis who says 'you about five years late', and Lestat honeytrapping with taking the man away).

It's a dynamic that repeats with the musician who tries to leave that Lestat coerces into staying - Louis' king of the castle, and Lestat, the show implies, I feel, plays the placating partner smooting over the edges.

But isn’t Lestat a symbol of patriarchal power in the Rue Royale Household?

I’ve had a couple of asks about this and have a long reply in my drafts that I’ll try and post this weekend, but yes and no? I think in Rue Royale, Lestat’s definitely a symbol of patriarchal power to Claudia, and I think Louis sometimes feels him that way too, but I don’t think it’s actually true for Louis in the way that it is for Claudia. Gender isn’t what divides Louis and Lestat, it’s race, and every time Louis has the chance to exert patriarchal power against anyone outside that house or inside it, he uses it – from coercing Lestat into Claudia's rebirth to physically assaulting Claudia over Lestat’s murder, to even trying to influence her diet and guilting her into staying, to throwing Lestat out of his own house and then fucking him in his lover’s bed (which, obviously, are after Lestat's singular act of violence), to being literally a pimp, strongarming his sister and his mother, to giving less than 0 fucks about Lily’s murder and the attempted anal-rape of Bricktop - - just.

Yeah. There are two patriarchs in the Rue Royale household, and both their names begin with L.

Eldest daughter syndrome

Sometimes men are also eldest siblings who feel the burden of responsibility?

Even beyond that though, I think Louis’ response to Grace is particularly paternalistic, a pattern he’d repeat with Claudia, which I talk about here. I do think Louis has a lot of responsibility and weight on his shoulders as an eldest child, absolutely, and I actually think there’s a lot to talk about in terms of his complex position as brother-father to Paul and Grace in s1 (and I empathise with him intensely in this regard as someone who’s been a sibling’s guardian), but like. That’s not a feminine trait, nor is it one that makes him an eldest daughter. I’m not one, and he’s not one either. Sibling dynamics aren’t cut and paste.

But Louis buys and reads Madame Bovary and obviously relates to Emma

I mean, he doesn’t buy it – the show literally, explicitly makes the point of telling us that it’s Lestat’s copy of the book that he’s reading, which honestly makes sense to me. I talked about it here (where I include the caps of it being Lestat's book too), but Emma as a character cheats because she finds monogamy boring, provincial life even more so and dislikes her daughter, while married to a successful man in a regional town. Louis’ not the Emma in that equation, Lestat is, given he's fucking Antoinette – allegedly because he wants variety – escaped the Auvergne in Paris, and can’t cope with parenthood and/or Claudia.

Interestingly too, Louis’ focus in that scene is on the 'denseness' of the prose and 'the absence of metaphor' not the content, as he ignores Lestat having a meltdown directly opposite him. My interpretation of that scene is that the writing is pointing out exactly how disconnected they are from each other, and that Louis can read a story that parallels a lot of Lestat’s experience, and fail to relate it to, or empathise with Lestat at all, even as Lestat indulges Louis’ depression and hoarding, which ! I love Louis, but Lestat does in that sequence (not that that justifies anything that Lestat does, of course).  

Isn’t Louis compared to Juliet and Mélisande?

Mmm, yes and no? Armand does put him in the Juliet role, which Louis riffs with Dreamstat about, but I tend to interpret that more to be about the involvement of the balcony than I do about their roles as Romeo and Juliet – because, y’know. Not everything’s actually about gender, particularly with same sex couples of that era who had limited reference points generally, and certainly limited mainstream ones.  

And Melisande - - not at all, actually? I do have to say that I’m a little bit baffled by this particular argument given we have the lyrics to Come to Me and Lestat puts himself in the feminine role of Mélisande (and I actually do think you can mount the argument that he's done that because he’s intending for Antoinette to sing it, which I thought for a long time before hearing Long Face tbh, and now I actually do think it’s deliberately playing into Louis’ sense of masculinity), and he does cast Louis in the masculine role of Pelléas. The chorus literally goes:

Ruin each other Like star-crossed lovers Your Pelléas, my Mélisande Oh, come to me Come to me

So, yeah. Again, that argument just doesn't quite land for me.

Wasn’t he jealous of Grace’s pregnancy though?

Was he? That wasn’t my interpretation, but I’d actually genuinely be interested to hear a case for it, because I feel that’s kind of tasty on a narrative level, haha. My interpretation of that entire sequence though kind of feeds back into that eldest sibling thing again where he a) resented Grace building something of her own before he could, and b) was terrified of the idea that her having her own family would mean that she’d pull way from him which she, of course, did.

I tend to see Louis’ desire to have Claudia as a fairly impulsive one, and I actually see (in the show’verse) his desire to have Lestat be the one to turn her as a part of him further interlocking him and Lestat together, particularly after he's effectively just broken up with Lestat. It's messy! But yeah, I mean, I think 2.07 laid out pretty cleanly that Louis' choice to turn Claudia was inherently a selfish one, and I personally don't see it as one borne out of jealousy so much as needing an anchor. 

Anne bases Louis on herself

She also bases Lestat on herself and/or everything she wants to be, and also washes her hands of Louis as a character for books at a time, and like - - I’m sorry, this is not the tone I usually take, but like - - lowkey, who cares? Everyone in this fandom loves death of the author until Anne says one thing they can use to justify their headcanons, and I just don’t really get it. Why are you trying to interpret a vampire novel as a memoir? Obviously it’s not factual? Anne’s not a man, she’s not drinking blood, she’s not romantically entangled with her dead daughter, like I do understand that it can feel noodly sometimes with authors and characters, but as someone who works with a lot of writers, I can promise you they’re dipping in and out of characters like crazy, haha.

It doesn’t mean a character’s them, and it certainly doesn’t mean you’re interacting with Anne when you're interacting with Louis, which I suspect a lot of people don’t want anyway? I don't know, personally I view this one as a bit of a non-starter.

Louis’ pretty though

Yeah, he is! He’s your Helen of Troy! He’s beautiful! He’d look amazing in tights and heels! That doesn’t mean he’s canonically femme though.

[danielmolloyshole]

@ahubofreadersandmagicians:

Why would Daniel hate Marius? He’s already read the “forced prostitution” and “Marius de Romanus” folders from the Talamasca’s Armand file, we’ve seen them. His only response was to shame Armand for talking abt the Arun/Amadeo days and imply he was lying. Even knowing Armand was telling the truth. Daniel’s bad w/abuse victims generally and hates Armand. Sadly, I think he’ll be ok with Marius.

This got stupid long and also needs to broken into parts to try to minimize how all over the place I am so let's gooo. Friendly disclaimer that this is my opinion but I am literally trained in media analysis like this so I promise I am coming from a place of knowledge. I'm gonna start with my interpretation of Daniel's character and go from there.

RE; Daniel is bad with abuse victims

I'm assuming you are saying this because of how Daniel talks to Luis about his abuse. The way Daniel approaches this topic is, frankly, awful. Daniel is not good at it. However, he is not supportive of it. He calls Lestat out on how badly he was treating Luis, the racial dynamic (again, said in a really bad way but later we do see Lestat minimizing Luis's feelings about how he is treated as a black man so he wasn't wrong). I also think about the rent boy line, which to me was more directed as a snide remark at Luis and his assumption of what their relationship is. Not saying it wasn't also supposed to be a jab at Fake Rashid (by this point he is suspicious and annoyed and staring all the time and in general does not know what to make of him, which Daniel doesn't like), but Daniel was in active conversation with Luis and not Fake Rashid. Daniel is mean, this is not in contention. He is not a good person. But he does not ignore or get down with abuse and instead calls it out into the room, both explicitly and implied.

RE; Daniel's Past & Hating Armand

Now, what informs the fact that Daniel is such a bitch, especially when he is chasing the high of bringing out the truth? Working under the assumption of my previous post, Devil's Minion has happened. The evidence of such is, in my opinion, scattered throughout both seasons and would be a whole other post to detail. This, in my opinion, is supported by comments made by the actors and show runners that imply they have purposefully planted seeds. All I have to work with in terms of analysis right now is the book and these seeds and my last post stated that we are treating the Devil's Minion chapter as canon up until Daniel's turning, at which point Armand would have erased his memories. This implies that from 1973 until 1985, the ages of 20 and 35, Daniel's memories are incomplete. Imagine your most developmental years as an adult are now so full of holes that you wrote a memoir about how inconsistent your memory is. Your first love, your first heartbreak, the first time you debased yourself for someone's love, the first time you really fucked up with someone, countless mistakes now altered. Any self-actualization that would have made Daniel a better person is now incomplete. This includes the memory of Daniel fucking a girl with a bag on her head. It is a shameful memory, that's why Armand brings it out, but as a twenty year-old shitty kid from Modesto, Daniel might not have fully conceptualized how ashamed he is of it until it is used as weapon against him. Assuming the memories begin to return next season, either in partial or in full, this would mean that Daniel would suddenly have a much fuller context of his trauma and why he does what he does. Eric Bogosian mentioned in an interview that both he and Daniel have forgotten trauma and I do not believe San Francisco is the end of that trauma. A relationship as volatile as Armand and Daniel's, influenced by drugs and blood and danger, would hold just as much trauma if not more than the six days spent in that apartment. Bogosian went on to say that those traumas influence how someone acts and interacts without even being aware of it. I believe a lot of the development we're gonna see in Daniel is him reconciling the mean, tear-it-all-down journalist with the man he was at the height of his affair with Armand. We've already seen heightened emotion from his Paris memory (another tangent but I do not believe Alice is Armand but rather that this specific memory was altered. Daniel cares a lot less about the memory of Alice telling him she's pregnant so the inconsistency is odd).  Daniel is going to need character development moving forward. Does this mean he's going to stop being an asshole? No. He's still an asshole. I just think he'll be a different kind of asshole.

RE; Daniel Shaming Armand

I don't interpret that Arun/Amadeo line as shaming him, exactly. Asking where the lies start, implying the Arun dynamic was something of a sham (master when it's hot and convenient, etc), yeah. He's in the throes of bringing down the castle of lies, he's gotten his hit, he's basically high on exposing the truth. To me, especially given how he looks at Armand while he's on the floor, I don't think Daniel hates Armand. In book canon, it's said that he could only feel ravening desire and it is my opinion that that remains true. Daniel was gloating until the high wore off and then he was at the very least incredibly shook and definitely not making a move to rub it in Armand's face that he won.

RE; Daniel hating Marius

The show has set Marius up to be a pedophilic groomer. I don't even know if grooming was a widely-used term in the seventies but they dropped it in there and modern sensibilities make that very purposeful writing. Daniel, as stated before, does call out abusive behavior. Is he doing it in a way that reduces harm? Fuck no. Is he hurting everyone in the way he does it? Absolutely. But he has shown no evidence of being supportive of abusers and Marius has been set up explicitly as an abuser.

RE; Conclusion

Daniel Molloy is not a good person but he is not an abuser and there is no evidence that suggests he would love Marius or be in any way supportive of his actions. This is true in particular with Armand, since it is now well-established that they will have a romantic relationship in the future.

[lestcat-de-lioncourt]

In response to the assumption that Lestat never loved Claudia

Whilst there were moments describing that he didn't really care about Claudia, it's not certain but he seemed to think she was in the way, though, this story is told by Louis who is known very well to be a totally unreliable narrator with now Armand who is butthurt about Lestat running off from him as well, whispering in his ear. Likewise, Claudia's diary has multiple pages stripped out, and it's mostly the parts favouring Louis left.

Lestat gifted what was assumed to be a family heirloom, at least in fan theory, (the gorgeous antique necklace) rather than given to him by a marquis as he mentions upon doing so, something you would often gift to your child you ultimately cared for and saw as your child. Though, whoever gave it to Lestat, it was still a special gift.

Lestat taught Claudia a multitude of talents, which Louis would not teach her nor encourage her to do. Piano, chess, hunting to survive (not particularly done by Louis due to his vegetarian vampirism), and Daniel calls out a lot of what Louis has to say was her relationship with Lestat and how he's painting it to be.

Looking toward the time when they conspire to kill Lestat, children can be easily manipulated, not to mention that she has the mind as a young person and there's trials and tribulations we have to go through during puberty, and it's a rather vulnerable time.

He looked regretful when he called her a mistake as well.

I know people so often accuse him of not loving her just because he's telling her off, normally in situations that would literally threaten her life and anonymity, and safety, this drastic opinion and assumption parents don't love their kids if they tell them off during moments that could end up killing them, is really telling of who has got kids and who hasn't ever needed to look after one.

Maybe he loves her, maybe he doesn't, he certainly struggles with her, and it's the age old tale of one parent being jealous of the other, or feeling lonely once having kids as the relationship may because less consistently intimate with less time to spend together, alone. There's things she's done that upsets him. He struggles with her playing them off against each other, but that's what kids often do. It's a survival technique.

It's very clear that he's too messy to be a good parent. He needs a whole lot of therapy, but that doesn't remove someone's capacity to love their kids. He has a lot of love for them.

This isn't related to his unchanging polyamory taking on various lovers, which he was very clear about with Louis, and he'd initially consented to and even done himself.

People look at Lestats behaviour and immediately assume he doesn't care nor has any real love for any of them, but that's so not true. The reality of love and family dynamics aren't as clear-cut as people try to paint them and disqualify more complex expressions of their feelings towards one another.

It is stated that he is forever haunted with the guilt and shame of Claudia's death.

You can see love and hurt and a series of emotions he felt when Louis asked Lestat to make them a baby (in the adaption, though yes, it is an adaption), for them to start a family, that he wanted a kid with Lestat. In that moment, he did, though he says he made her as the ultimate gift for Louis, a daughter, a child, and starting their own family. This is a very raw feeling that people who decide to have kids will often experience. I don't believe he "baby trapped" Louis though, as many keep saying, considering he was worried about the consequences that would happen to her and her future as a child immortal. Seeing how distraught Louis was and empathetic to the potential death of the child, he changed her. He tried to highlight to Louis that in the end, it could do her more harm than dying.

I don't think he never loved Claudia, I may well be wrong, though.

[littlestsnicket]

random armand focused iwtv thoughts and headcanons with absolutely no fandom wank this time:

i think armand is actually probably a really good teacher. he was certainly successful at teaching louis to use the fire gift, and i think it dovetails nicely with his desire to provide service and his capacity for levelheaded severity and dominance. (which he does have--the evil trauma gremlin is a separate trait and doesn't usually get triggered when teaching)

fucking obsessed with the park bench scene. louis sitting there in the rain with an umbrella in his lap, looking at armand, looking at the umbrella, and being like "i'm a bit wet". he's feeling that out, seeing how armand responds to this power dynamic before they have the rest of that conversation. like... this is calculated, louis knows and is telegraphing what he wants from armand, and armand is so eager to give it. it makes me insane. obsessed with their dynamic. truly obsessed.

and the scene before louis is going to give madeleine the gift... i actually don't think armand takes poorly to having his boundaries respected. i don't think armand is quite that fucked up (or more accurately, he is that fucked up, but has a good understanding in at least some parts of his brain about exactly how fucked up he is even if he has some weird cognitive dissonance about it, and is able to rationally interpret that as a good thing in that moment, even if it puts him off balance). what armand takes poorly is louis being wrong. louis took responsibility for something and couldn't actually handle it and that totally undermined armand's sense of safety in their relationship. which is obviously not reasonable or healthy, but i think makes a lot of sense for armand and his decision making process.

i'm also really attached to the idea that armand has a good working knowledge of modern risk aware BDSM practices. he has the internet. and as much as louis and armand don't have many (hardly any) actual peers and are therefore wildly codependent, i think they both have a ton more casual contact with people than they appear to in the dubai interview. i think louis is coming out of a particularly bad depressive funk so temporarily doesn't have much contact with the outside world, and showing himself to have outside contact doesn't serve armand's narrative. anyway, i think armand has been to his fair share of kink clubs.

i think a large part of why lestat lets louis go with armand in the tower is because he believes (correctly, at least in this case; that is literally the least convincing yes i have ever heard when louis asks armand if he saved him) that armand is not a very good liar so if louis doesn't believe lestat saved him, it's primarily because louis doesn't want to. armand is great at controlling a narrative, significantly less great at flat out lies.

armand functions, structurally, as a femme fatale in a detective story. he's exactly as simultaneously shady, secretive, tragic, and alluring as he seems to be--the reveal is just that he's done something worse, but still totally in character, than we thought.

loumand from louis' perspective: i loved you in paris, i'm not sure if i love you now or am just scared of being alone. sometimes i can work with that and things are good, other times i think i'm betraying claudia's memory by being this close to you and am going to punish both of us for it. a lot of the time i'm clinically depressed in a way that actually has very little to do with you, but you're such a martyr you can't see that and sometimes i crave the resulting attention and subservience and other times it makes me sick with both of us.