#willelmike analysis

[bylerpining]

I firmly believe that willelmike is the greatest love triangle ever written. a triangle where all three characters get the same amount of focus and care put into their individual arcs. three arcs that perfectly intertwine right from the beginning. three arcs that will all be fulfilled by the love triangle's conclusion rather than tossing one character aside. three characters who all have love for each other and no real competition or resentment. the internalized homophobia of one character being such a major factor in how it plays out and making it so complex rather than it simply being about "I think this person is hot but also this other person :( who will I choose??"

most love triangles in media are so formulaic and oftentimes just a cheap way of putting an obstacle in the way of the endgame couple, but willelmike is such a good exploration of conformity and heteronormativity and societal expectations. muah I love you duffers

[gayofthefae]

There's a scene of Mike and Will uniting in loving El

There's a scene of Lucas and El uniting in loving Max

There's even a scene of Will and El hugging Dustin together

And Mike and Will hugging Lucas together

There's plenty. This is the SEASON for these trios. Even without hugs, the Lucas, Max, Dustin trio has been majorly back too! It's the SEASON for three people loving each other, especially with a focus on two united in loving one, in a way it never has before.

My point is that if Mike and El had been written to unite in their love for Will or invite him in in any way like that, it would have fixed so much that implies Byler.

One very simple way they could have done that is instead of El stepping out of the frame with Mike to be alone in a shot hugging Will, Will could have stepped into the shot with them. Just a very simple visual symbolism, can still even be just a one on one hug.

But instead, the continued to isolate any two pairs. Because they are not done emphasizing that the three of them in their current state are not something that can coexist. Mike and Will can be together. And Mike and El can be together. But Will and El can be together. But because Mike cannot be with Will in front of El, they cannot be all together. A group hug is off the table. A group is off the table...right now.

Because of the natures of their relationships.

But it would have been so easy. That was his entire conflict of 4x02. For people who still weren't sure he was gay by this point, that was his only conflict: feeling excluded by the both of them. A silent apology at any point after their reunion of just inviting him in in some way would have been huge. The equivalent of that subtlety of Mike telling Will not to donate his D&D book. A simple callback, but framing Will's main issue with it as being excluded and resolving that issue.

Will can still be gay. He can still have feelings for Mike. But if he is going to in the end be fine despite currently not being over Mike, they would need to make that statement that his main issue was their exclusion of him and now that that's resolved, he is okay!

That he is gay and in love with Mike. But that isn't the issue that needs resolving. The issue is that he wants all three of them to be able to be together. And the other stuff is just for the purposes of queer representation, his true happy ending is having his best friend and sister in a room together.

But they didn't do that. In fact, they did the opposite. They showed Mike and El still separated from him, implying that the reason Will and El cannot coexist in Mike's life is still present and was not any of the reasons he previously listed and fixed, then showing Will still sad.

The painting could have been him letting go. It wasn't. His closure could have been all three of them having a moment together like they didn't get in 4x02. It wasn't. They made certain to emphasize that Mike & El and Mike & Will are still very separate and that, despite being on good terms with Mike again, despite being on good terms with El again, despite making a commitment to never pursue his feelings, he does not have closure, he does not have peace.

So that's not what it was. They really knocked them out one by one. They said "he needs to be happy. You suggested put his friendship with Mike back? Nope. Reunite with El? Uh uh. Let go of his pursuit of Mike? Eh, didn't work."

And then they gave the interesting implication with that lack of trio:

"All three of them together? Sorry, that can't exist without the natures of their relationships changing".

In not doing it even when everything else was fixed, they cemented that the problem was not that Mike and Will had been apart, it was not that he was scared El would leave him, it was not that he thought he was unneeded, it wasn't even that he hadn't said "I love you" yet because they still aren't all together in the epilogue, it was the only remaining fact. They stripped away every possible option to ensure you could see with no excuses the only unchanged variable left:

Mike and El are still together. And Mike and Will are not.

Until that changes, their happy trio like Will wants cannot exist. So people can believe all they want that the thing he truly wanted in 4x02 was all three of them together and that's all he truly wants in the end, but they made sure that even that itself required Mike and Will to be together too.

[tsugarubecker]

iykyk!!!

Star Wars x Stranger Things

Mike Wheeler's favorite franchise

[therainscene]

I didn't start shipping Byler because I picked up on a few moments of chemistry and decided they'd make a cute couple -- I started off by absolutely refusing to entertain said moments as reciprocally queer until I ran into the ridiculous homophobia on the ST subreddit and decided to review Mike's character arc out of sheer gay spite.

Let me clarify: Spite isn't what made me change my mind about Mike. Spite just made me read a few Byler analyses and rewatch the show with an open mind because I didn't want to be like those pricks who would insult and censor queer fans for... [checks notes]... thinking something gay might happen in a TV show with gay people in it. I truly wasn't expecting a queer interpretation to fit Mike's arc anywhere near as well as the default interpretation -- but by the time I'd finished my rewatch, I was reeling from how much better it fit.

Cause that's the thing: Mike's queerness is pretty obvious once you look for it. The difficulty is in giving yourself permission to look.

-------------------

A question Bylers are often asked is "why would the show spend four seasons building up Milevn just to tear it down at the last minute for some unrealistic woke ship? Mike literally said he loves El!" And yeah, Mike's grand love confession at the end of S4 certainly seems like a triumphant pay-off to all that build-up... but I have a few questions of my own.

Firstly: why establish in no uncertain terms that feeling loved is the key to unlocking El's fullest potential against Vecna--

--only to undermine the power of Mike's longed-for confession by having it only be good enough to delay Vecna instead of defeat him? Yes, it's the penultimate season -- so why did Milevn's pay-off happen here instead of S5 where it could properly shine?

Secondly: why couldn't Milevn fix their relationship by themselves? Even if you believe that El commissioned the painting (she didn't) and that the feelings Will describes are truly hers (they aren't), it was still Will who had to perform this romantic gesture on her behalf, and it broke his heart to do so. Why hand this important work off to a third party? Why weave queer tragedy into the build-up towards a heterosexual pay-off that's supposed to feel triumphantly romantic?

Speaking of which: why undermine the intimacy of this scene by having Will hover behind Mike's shoulder the whole time? Couldn't they have asked Noah to take a few steps to the left for the sake of a better shot? Couldn't they have waited until after Milevn's big romantic moment to remind us for the millionth fucking time how sad Will is about it?

In my opinion, this scene and its four seasons of build-up make much more sense if you read them as three entwined character arcs about the trials of growing up in a suffocatingly heteronormative era: the gay kid who doesn't think he's entitled to a happy ending; the abused girl who thinks shallow romance with the first boy who's nice to her will make her feel normal; and the confused hero who hasn't figured out the solution yet.

For all the insistence that this show has to stick to "realistic" depictions of 80s queerness... it's hardly a realistic depiction of 80s straightness for Mike to score an awesome magical girlfriend, either. That's just nerdy wish-fulfillment, and common only as a trope in fiction.

So it's not unreasonable to suppose that Mike's true role in the Subverting 80s Tropes Show might be to represent the actually very realistic 80s experience of getting swept up in compulsory heterosexuality.

Think about it: Will's vulnerability to the horrors functions as a metaphor for being visibly gay in a world that despises gay people--

--whereas Mike's girlfriend quite literally has the power to protect him from monsters and homophobic bullies alike.

This doesn't mean Mike is callously using El, though. He learned the hard way in S1 that treating an innocent girl like a means to an end would only end up destroying her, and the guilt and fear of hurting her again has been weighing heavy on him ever since.

Comphet isn't about taking advantage of other people's feelings so you can pretend to be straight -- it's about deluding yourself into believing you're straight because queerness isn't an option you're allowed to consider.

Mike genuinely does love El and he genuinely does want to be an important part of her life -- so surely that means he wants to be her boyfriend, right? Twelve is perhaps a little young to know that yet... but surely there's gotta be something here that sets his feelings apart from how a friend or brother would feel?

Surely the reason he later finds himself struggling to say to her face that he loves her is because he's just an immature loser who needs to try harder to grow up and be the man this girl he adores deserves to have...?

...and certainly not because the guilt and fear of losing her just keeps piling up as the romantic instincts he thinks he's been waiting to grow into turn out to be developing at exactly the pace they're supposed to -- in the wrong direction.

That would be ridiculous. Will's his best friend. Yes, he loves him and can't bear to be without him, but that doesn't mean anything. Why can't a guy display a little unhinged devotion to his special friend without it having to mean something romantic?

Why can't he, indeed.

At his core, Mike is someone who desperately wants to be as special as the straight heroes in the nerdy media he loves. But there isn't anything inherently heroic about being some lame middle-class white nerd who's bad with girls, so he believes that the best he can do is to be a dutiful sidekick who would sacrifice himself in a heartbeat for people he perceives as more special than himself.

For all the "build-up" Mike's romance with El has enjoyed across four seasons, it's done absolutely nothing to help him grow as a character and overcome this self-worth problem.

So is it really any surprise that even after realizing El would be fine and still want to be friends with him if he told her the truth, and even after realizing just how good Will is at understanding his insecurities and reassuring him of his inherent worth--

--Mike would still sacrifice his chance at happiness for the sake of the greater good?

El was literally dying in his arms. How could queer desire possibly be as important as this girl who needed him to be a man and do his damn job so she could do hers?

I'm interpreting Mike as gay here, but I think it's important to note that this principle applies even if he's bi or straight -- Mike can be attracted to girls and still be forcing himself to stay in a relationship with a girl he's not a good romantic match for because that's just what he thinks he's supposed to do.

His sister had a similar problem: Nancy was legitimately attracted to Steve, but her infatuation with him was more about doing what cool teen girls are supposed do than about authentic connection. And because this is a horror story as much a coming-of-age story, Wheeler's conformity had horrendous consequences -- her critical-of-comphet bestie was killed by the horrors.

Which sounds familiar, doesn't it?

(Sure, Max technically didn't die -- but she still died enough for Vecna's plan to come to fruition. Which just brings us back to my first question: why couldn't the Power of Heterosexual Love prevent this? In the same season that said "forced conforming is what's killing the kids", no less?)

Will describes Vecna as an inevitability that won't stop until he's taken everyone -- which in my opinion is the same defeatist attitude demanded by comphet.

It's not that Mr. Refuses-To-Participate-In-Society's-Silly-Play symbolizes comphet itself, per se; rather, he represents the despair of feeling like you can't truly escape it. But either way, this means that the solution to defeating Vecna is the same solution to defeating comphet:

Giving yourself permission to look and see that your true self is far more valuable than whatever you think you're supposed to be.

[reo-bylerwagon]

just find it funny that will continues to stare at mike, while el barely looks at him despite being the one he initially addressed.

who actually has a crush on mike impossible challenge go

but in all seriousness, i've been thinking about what noah said recently about him having to do very subtle and masked acting in season 3 in terms of will's feelings for mike, and this scene popped in my head. like, not only have they been doing the "mike and el can't have a moment alone without will loitering in the background (in focus, too)" theme since the snowball, but they've also been exhibiting the duality of will and el's actions when mike isn't looking.

that last image above is extremely telling to me. el doesn't look back once mike looks away, proving she wasn't just putting on a nonchalant act until he couldn't see her anymore. meanwhile, will just always has his eyes on mike, and this is one of the few examples we have of will pining in the open (something we mainly see in season 4 when he's more sure of his feelings, and mayyyyybe even hopeful of reciprocation.) the more i think about it as i'm writing this out, i actually think this is the first shot we have of will watching mike in a sort of (obviously masked) yearning nature(?)

[butter-bubbles]

The thing that absolutely gets to me in this scene is how Will doesn't even look upset when he sees El and Mike (totally platonically) reuniting.

The GA always argues that Will's included during their “romantic moment” to convey his sadness/unrequitedness/queer alienation, but like he's just happy to have his sister back in this moment. There’s not even a hint of sadness on his face. It's Mike who's acting strange here.

Bro looks like someone just electrocuted his cat, like who is this loser boykisser? Cringefail Mike Wheeler, never change.

[gayofthefae]

I have a rule with all predictions that before I commit to them as a belief, I check them against themes and arcs. If they don't fit, they're out. No matter how much foreshadowing, I must have misinterpreted somewhere. The thing I keep. finding. and that got me on board from the start was not that Byler fits the themes but that I ran all the other scenarios and they don't. This is it.

El's independence.

Mike's going after what he wants.

Will allowing himself to have things.

the fact that the first word El said to Mike was "no" and the first word Will said to Mike was "yes" makes me wonder why anyone ever has any byler doubt whatsoever. It's so obvious, byler endgame.

[bonskidin64]

Uhhhh I don’t know if anyone’s going to understand this edit🥶.

I need s5 byler right neow

[queen-of-hawkins-why-ler]

No but like El will be happy about Byler. Like actually happy, not just okay with it. It's not just her who doesn't "get" Mike and his nerdiness and need to be the hero, it's also Mike who doesn't understand the depths of El's humanity despite being a "superhero" and all of the trauma she deals with and has yet to work through. Her uniquely feminine experience and all of the challenges and milestones that come alongside maturing as a young woman, which is something that Max understands perfectly well, and this is the reason why El has begun to prioritize her friendship with Max over her relationship with Mike. El knows in her heart that she and Mike are already doomed romantically, I just think she was in denial about it until Mike's monologue. The only fear both El and Mike have now is that the absence of romance from their relationship means there won't be a relationship period i.e. they are destined to lose each other. For El, knowing and understanding that Mike is gay and in love with someone else and literally CAN'T be with her romantically will be the biggest signifier that they were never going to be able to hold onto that romance in the first place. Now they can work on being friends. If anything it's Will who's going to struggle to be with Mike in light of the guilt he will feel from "stealing" Mike from El, and I wouldn't be surprised if El is going to be the one to ultimately push Will towards Mike and encourage the two of them to be together.

[silverliing]

uhh anyways i have more thoughts about the lithos on mikes wall (i.e. i think the metaphysical reading of these works won’t even represent mike’s arc in s5 bc he hasn’t even been involved with the supernatural plot as of yet… rather im just trying to understand they could mean like what does it mean!) anddddddd…

Dimensional sight (metaphysical)

Dimensional travel (physical)

he has both will and el on his wall 🥹

[ven0moir]

jfc wtf is the Upside Down??? the more i think about it being a cognitive world (some sort of replica of someone's nightmare or dreamscape or something), the more i question my sanity and the stranger this show gets bc holy freaking shit?????

[gayofthefae]

The thing about a character's main plotline is you only get one. Mike's isn't Will no El no Will no El no it's Will but now it's El,

it's his relationship with his own queerness as he confronts it in his relationships with both men and women.

Because if his story is Will, what are seasons 1 and 3 about? If it's El, what about seasons 2 and 4, why are they apart and not working towards the same goal together?

You have to find a consistency. It reminds of something I like to do when I'm doing character work, which is to ask "what is this character's biggest fear?" I had a character who I decided feared being forgotten above all else and let me tell, that fed into every aspect of my performance in some way. Mike's biggest fear for a long time is being queer or being out. We know that because of how it impacts everything he does.

You have to find the consistency. You go back through and see what he does and feels and how he reacts to both Will and El the same, or maybe very differently but always around the same topics. Those topics are what inform us.

Mike's story is one thing, and if it were his love for El, they wouldn't have wasted so much time on him and Will. Professional writers know that scenes must serve all characters involved, and if Mike's story were El, what a waste of an entire season for him. That would mean he has little to know growth from season 2 because it doesn't affect him, something that would also break every screenwriting structure and give us a feeling of lack of momentum - which we did not feel.

No, he has a singular plot. Queerness through his relationships with both El and Will. That's what those homophobic bullies were really there for. It wasn't just easter eggs. It was drive for a character present.

If his story is about both Will and El then no it's not. If it's about multiple people that just means it's about only himself. It's about what those people reflect of him. But they have to reflect only one thing...

There's only one plot consistent enough to be his one plot. And we already know, if the requirement is that his relationship with Will impacts his relationship with El and vice versa...we already know there's only one way it could have done that the way it did.

[therainscene]

After reading your latest Mike analysis, I’m interested in what you think of people who say that 1. Mike would still have given the love confession to El on his own regardless of whether Will prompted him or not, and 2. that Will’s unhappiness is not portrayed as being sad enough to override how joyful Mike’s love confession is. These are takes I see often, and they’re hardest to argue with because they have to do with technical filmmaking aspects like editing and cinematography, which people disregard as being subjective and therefore up to interpretation, as well as each individual viewer’s empathy and ability to read facial expressions and non-verbal cues. Rather than create genuine discussion that holds water, I find that these takes just expose mileven fans as being cruel people who are either wilfully or unwillfully denying Will’s importance in this story for their own personal reasons, but of course that gets into psychological territory rather than discussing the show itself, which can be controversial (although I do believe it to be the explanation for why milevens still exist). Interested to hear your thoughts on the 2 takes.

Hi, thanks for the ask!

1. I agree with this, actually. El was dying in front of him and Mike is a man of action -- of course he was going to do the only thing he could possibly do in that moment, regardless of whether Will prompted him. So why did the writers feel the need to weave Will into Mike's decision anyway?

2. Mike isn't a prize to be awarded to whichever Vecna victim would be made the happiest by him. He's his own character with his own character arc, and being entwined with the character arcs of his love interests doesn't negate the fact that whatever he chooses in the end is an expression of his coming-of-age journey, not theirs. The real question is the one I addressed in my last analysis: Why couldn't his confession empower El well enough to stop Vecna?

I feel like a lot of Milevn-vs-Byler discourse boils down to endless bickering over details that are ambiguous on purpose; there comes a point where you just have to accept the ambiguity for what it is and start looking at the bigger picture.

And I'm not just referring to the show when I say that. I think this applies to the fandom, too.

Who cares why some people still ship Milevn? Ships don't have to be canonically endgame or understandable/tasteful to the majority of the audience to attract an enthusiastic fanbase; us queers should know that better than anyone. And does it really matter if some rando on the internet doesn't get a fictional gay boy's importance in a story that's been deliberately downplaying his importance?

I have zero tolerance for bullies who call us delusional or degenerate over something as petty as a TV show -- but equally, it's not worth getting worked up over people disagreeing with us about how that TV show is going to end. Bylerposting can get folks to question their heteronormative assumptions, as it did with me -- but they need to have decided they want to question it first, and that's not something you can force by arguing about which tortured kid deserves to date Mike more. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[miwiheroes]

Day 38: Something's Not Adding Up...

Remember, the analysis posts where they have "Day 35 etc etc" are going to be going on my byler slides

So my last byler slides post on here was to do with the lightning flashes and the imagery created from El being in the UD. I am going to be continuing to make posts on the love monologue from here on out its going to be...interesting as there is just soooo much to unpack. Today's is going to be about the fact there are lots of things that Mike says in the monologue that don't add up. There were so many other words that the Duffers could have written into the monologue to make it more convincing, but they didn't.

Straight off the bat, some people might not be convinced that Mike is lying in the first place and never will be. Unfortunately for you, one of the main themes in Season 4 is lying. SO many characters lie to each other at every single turn. However, this theme is especially very very present in the Willelmike love triangle. Lying isn't so much a theme during El's lab storyline, on her part, but whenever she's associated with the love triangle's storyline, she is associated with that theme.

Every single character in the love triangle is lying about something, and they do these things during monologues:

El lies about her life in Lenora during her letter monologue.

Will lies about his feelings towards Mike being El's in his painting monologue.

Mike lies about how he feels towards El in his love monologue.

Another main theme in Season 4 is the fact that they don't win. It was a shock for the audience when they weren't necessarily successful and didn't kill the Big Bad, just like the other seasons. Many things were unsuccessful and unsatisfying. Max's heart stops despite her fighting so hard. This theme can clearly be seen in all the monologues near the end of the show.

Funnily enough, all the monologues' aims are unsatisfying in the end because of the lies in them:

El's lies are found out and then cause her and Mike to have a huge fight.

Will's lies and self-sacrifice and his words about Mike being the heart means that he (in his mind) loses Mike to El forever.

Mike's lies means that 4 gates open in Hawkins because Max's heart stopped.

And this makes total sense because the show's main mantra is literally: Friends don't lie. Meaning lies = bad, yeah

This is the rule of three in action. There is a clear rule of three seen from the fact they are all monologues, from each person in the triangle. Meaning they all need to follow the same pattern. So in this season....Will lies, El lies, Max lies, Lucas lies, Joyce lies and Mike......has no lies? Hm, not likely. So in this season.....Will's lies mean he loses Mike, El's lies are ultimately found out, and Mike's monologue......ends up unsuccessful. But why?

Because he lied.

We've established that due to the themes of the show, the pattern in the monologues, and Season 4's overall theme of them not winning. This just means to me that the love monologue while super important, was not supposed to be wholly truthful and this big positive thing.

Now we can unpack these lies:

The first is obviously the big 'I love you' moment. I would love to talk more about this specific phrase obviously, but I more go into why this is implied to be a negative thing rather than a positive in my other monologue post and my upcoming ones. Without the depth however, I can say that the audience is not supposed to be satisfied when they hear Mike say this. The lightning strikes, Mike's face, the fact Will is behind him in the background, El's face - they all point to that.

To me, this face he makes before saying it not only screams him thinking that he's about to lie, but it screams "i really don't want to do this but i have to otherwise she's going to die." It really feels like something bad is happening rather than something the audience is supposed to want, especially with Will in the background of the shot.

El do you hear me? I love you. I'm sorry I don't say it more. It's not because I'm scared of you. I'm not. I've never felt that way. Never.

Choosing to make him say "I'm sorry I don't say it more".....Hm.

The whole point of El's argument in Episode 3 is that he never says it. Mike then goes onto say "I say it" and El throws the fact that he can't write it in his face, like she thinks it's something that he can't even fake. Not only does he never say it, he never shows it. Just because you can't say it doesn't mean that you can't show it, Mike. That's one of the big reasons why El needs Mike to say it to her - because she just doesn't feel it from him. Ergo, he shouldn't be saying sorry for not saying it more. He should be sorry for not showing it more.

Mike is completely incapable of talking to El directly about anything of the romantic sort, because he knows it's lying, and he doesn't want to feel like he's lying because....that would incriminate himself to himself (if that makes sense). Instead, he tries to perform it to other people, make sure that other people are aware that he has a girilfriend, be more romantic with her in public rather than alone. Byler has many, many scenes by themselves where they have a satisfying intimate moment. In all of Milkvan's one-on-one scenes, Mike either stumbles over his words to refuse to force a romantic moment, just makes out with her, gets interrupted before doing anything satisfying, or argues with her.

The thing about him not being scared of her... I do believe that Mike is not scared of El harming him. He was upset and shocked that she harmed Angela because it went against his idealised version of her, despite her being in the right - this led to him making passive aggressive compliments and ignoring her for the rest of the day. His reactions was enough to remind El of Brenner. Her abusive father figure who was scared of her because he thought she killed these kids violently. This then led to her projecting her anxious attachment towards Brenner onto Mike again - but maybe that's for another post.

But I am scared that one day you're going to realise that you don't need me anymore. And I thought that if I said how I felt it would make that day....Hurt more.

The first sentence is funny because we heard him say something very similar in the van scene, which means that this portion is true. He really wants to be needed. I don't know why, but this rubs me the wrong way. It makes me feel like El just began to attach herself to Mike because she was definitely not independent herself, since he gives her love sometimes and takes it away the next moment. Mike only liking the fact that she needs him is...interesting because he never says that he needs her. Wants her. Loves her? This is just an unequal relationship, as Mike has stated as one of his main insecurities when talking about it with Will.

He just wants El to feel these things that he himself does not. He wants someone to need him. That is how he wants to be loved. But the thing is....El realises that she doesn't need him to say I love you during the lab arc. My next post on the monologue will touch on El's arc more, and the fact that her needing Mike to say I love you was not because she loved him so much and wanted him to say it back. She just wanted to feel like she wasn't a total monster. But then she said to Brenner that she no longer thinks she is. So yes, Mike, she doesn't need you anymore.

But you know who does need Mike? Will. Will loves Mike in the exact way that Mike wants to be loved, which is. not. a coincidence.

But the truth is El I don't know how to live without you. I feel like my life started that day we found you in the woods.

While this sentence is not nice, don't worry, because I do believe one of the main reasons it's there is to make the audience angry. There are so many fucking shots of Will during the monologue, just to remind you of him, to remind you how much this monologue is hurting him, to remind you that these words are only happening because of him. I will be, again, talking more about this in an upcoming post.

Saying I don't know how to live without you is not proof that he loves her. I'm sure you can imagine that why this suggests that their attachment to one another is unhealthy. It is true, that he doesn't know what to do if he loses her, which is exactly why he is saying these things to win her back. Not because he loves her.

The second sentence, again, is very false and codependent as well. Saying that your life depends on someone else....uh. This also contradicts what Mike had said about stumbling on her in the woods not being fate, not being destiny, but dumb luck. Instead of an active choice that he made, just like with Will when he says that meeting him and asking him to be his friend is the best thing he ever did, it's something that he'd never meant to do.

One of the biggest differences between Mike's speech in Season 2 and Mike's speech in Season 4 is the fact that his speech in S2 instantly breaks through to Will, there is no music, it's extremely intimate. When Will says in his Van speech that Mike gives El the courage to fight on, Mike takes that and therefore gains the belief that he is the one that needs to tell her he loves her even if he doesn't, in order for her to fight on. WHEN REALLY it's Will. The proof is in the pudding:

You were wearing that yellow Benny's Burgers T-shirt and it was so big it almost swallowed you whole.

Meaningless line that deadass has no point to it, other than to remind El of a memory that he thinks is good for her. This is the only time that she smiles/laughs a little, before going back to looking upset again. This is so weird - "You were wearing a yellow shirt so I loved you". I could talk about how the colour yellow is so obviously associated with Will, but honestly, I don't know if that's a reach or not.

And I knew right there and then , in that moment, that I loved you. And I've loved you every day since.

And this ladies and germs, is the Biggest Lie. Why did the writers feel the need to have Mike emphasise the fact that he knew. right then and there. in that moment. ?

It's because..... They really wanted us to notice that they were talking about LOVE AT FIRST SIGHT which can be proven wrong by going back and rewatching the show. They really wanted no one to make an excuse and say that maybe Mike didn't actually know then. HE SAID HE KNEW.

"Maybe he just meant a little later." HE SAID RIGHT THERE AND THEN. IN THAT MOMENT.

This is why I believe the writers only put this line in to make the audience actually question the truthfulness of the whole monologue. They could have had Mike easily talk about the moment he fell in love with El. That would have been just as romantic, but no, they made it something to be provably wrong. On purpose.

Now, we have a lot of evidence from the show itself to prove that when Mike met with El, he did not love her instantly:

In the trailer for Season 1, they show Mike finding El. The first thing he says, portraying what his first thoughts were, was "That's not Will." - at the time of making the trailer, the creators had already filmed and written the season. So they knew what they were doing putting this in the trailer.

Mike cared about her and took her in, but was completely ready to prioritise Will instead - he said to Dustin and Lucas that the reason they couldn't show their parents who they had found was because they'd be on house arrest. He then tells them that he can get El to talk to his mom and his mom can "send her back to Pennhurst or wherever she comes from. And tomorrow night, we go back out, and this time, we find Will." This shows that his main priority was finding Will. He's a little careless about El at this point. He emphasises find Will! because he wants to state that he'd never meant to find El.

The next morning, Mike comes down to feed her and then asks her to go to the front and pretend like she's never met him before so that his mom can help her. She refuses. He then realises that she might be in trouble, and when she says there are, that's when he decides to keep her.

From this point onwards, he's somewhat indifferent towards her, showing her around the house, like he's teaching a toddler/ alien life force what his house is like. To me, this is not love. Mike's excitement seems more like friendship, care for another person, or just that he made this scientific discovery. When El points Will's photo - that's when he really takes priority in hiding her and keeping her. The very next scene is him hiding her in the closet (lol) - the scenes are back to back so that you don't need to question whether Mike hides her because he wants to be friends or hides her because he needs her to find Will.

The only time that Mike began to get the idea that his care for El might be romantic is because of Lucas. He was the one to say that he should 'marry her', aka a very heteronormative 80s, nuclear family thing. Mike seems annoyed that Lucas is doing this, but he is genuinely confused - not shy. He seems fed up. The moment after this conversation, he learns that being queer is a bad thing from the bullies, therefore making Lucas's daydream more of a preferable thing. Read more about this here.

Okay so that's some of the evidence from the show, but I guess we don't have to take all of that as complete evidence, because that may be up to interpretation (not really but whatever).

There is some evidence from sources outside the show too:

This is direct evidence from the show's writers that they do not believe in love at first sight - aka why the hell would they write something into the show that they do not believe in?

Above here is where Finn was asked about how 'strong' Milkvan are and about the confession. Keep in mind he was asked about the confession as the last thing. With this, Finn chose to specifically talk about how Mike didn't forsee himself to be in any kind of romantic relationship - this was something that he was insecure about. Saying romance was not on his mind even initially when he found eleven, is crazy fucking work. This had caused a lot of Milkvan's arguments to change from "Mike said he loved El at first sight!" to "Mike never meant at very first sight, just the next day or something! He was just being hyperbolic!". Girl. He literally said in his speech - Right there, in that moment. It was emphasised to you. Hyperbole would have been: "I knew in that moment that I loved you more than I love life itself" or something. Learn the definition of a hyperbole.

I also love how Finn expresses that Mike's feelings towards El are similar to how Elliott felt towards ET - which was obviously not romantic love. This is Finn explaining away all the seemingly romantic behaviour that Mike has towards her in the beginning of S1. Thankyou for that <3

(Also can we talk about how he said its his first romantic feelings for someone like we get it, he's not going to stay with El.... "going into to s5", "still a couple going into it" - OKAY WE GET IT HEEHEE)

It's so funny because all this fucking evidence I just showed you can be completely made null and void if Mike had simply said something like "I've loved you since *other moment*" "I fell in love with you that week." But no. It was a provable lie.

I love you on your good days I love you on your bad days.

Saying this stuff can't possibly mean he actually shows it. Just saying that you love someone on your good days and bad days doesn't actually mean you do, or that you're showing it. The whole reason that El wants Mike to actually say it is 1. because she needs reassurance that she's not a monster, and 2. because she doesn't feel the love coming from Mike whenever she's having a 'bad day'.

In my opinion, the only reason why he says these things is because he wants her to survive. He thinks this will make her happy because he's remembering what he did wrong - even if it's not true.

Consistently, from Season 1 onwards, he doesn't show that he loves her or consistently shows affection towards her even when she's doing something that he doesn't like:

Season 1: Only shows care for her when she's helping him find Will or saving him with her powers. Says 'What is wrong with you' three times. The first two are when Mike thinks that Will has died and therefore thinks that El lied to him, his anger and sadness mix into this lashing out. He says it again when she attacks Lucas.

Season 2: Has a very idealised version of her due to his guilt and so doesn't think of her as a bad person at all - this then fuels the fact he puts her on a pedestal, therefore making him more likely to take away that love as soon as she doesn't hold up to his standards. He doesn't see her this season until the end.

Season 3: Shows extreme frustration at her behaviour when she breaks up with him. He calls her (and girls in general) a "different species", says that he doesn't understand what he's done to deserve this despite not explaining anything to her, and says that he is the victim in this situation. He believes himself a victim of her wrath or something. This isn't even him lashing out because he's upset or sad, because he seems perfectly happy to have fun with Lucas as if this isn't a serious situation.

Season 4: Oh boy. Again, he has this idealised version of her in his head. Now that she doesn't have powers, El feels the need to perform for him again, making herself seem like she has the perfect life. As soon as she deviates from this perfect image, Mike is cold towards her. He says "what did you do" when she attacks Angela, and this is paralleled within the show with her abusive father figure (hello??). He then ignores her when she is clearly upset, and says rude comments at dinner, not caring when she storms off. He begins to try and apologise, but as soon as he's attacked for his incriminating behaviour he gaslights her by blaming other people for their problems, and calls her ridiculous. Again, he tries to place her on his pedestal that she can't reach by calling her a superhero.

I love you with and without your powers. I love you for exactly who you are. You're my superhero.

The last time that El was called a superhero by Mike, where she realised that she was never going to be enough for him unless she can be of benefit to him:

And the same exact thing in the love confession, though this time, El knows that she is not a monster, knows that she doesn't need Mike to think she's a superhero.

Mike constantly talks about how El is a superhero or his superhero - this just shows that he went from point A in the third episode to.....point A again??? The difference here is the fact that Mike used the fact she's a superhero as 'proof' that he loves her when they first argued in her bedroom, even though he didn't want to say it. Even when he seems to want to tell her i love you, he still uses this excuse as if he needs extra proof.

Another thing about the superhero thing is that it directly contrasts to Will and Mike's dynamic. Mike seems very happy to be working with Will as a team when he talks to him earlier in the season.

He would much rather work with someone as a team than work under them as their inferior. He literally expresses to Will about how insecure he feels surrounding El's superpowers and how he doesn't feel special or needed - and yet he somehow uses this as a reason to love her.

HE HAS SEVERELY POOR SELF-ESTEEM if he is using something that makes him feel worse about himself as proof that he loves her. The big difference between Milkvan and Byler is that Mike is not on the same level as El, so they never work as a team. Mike has expressed his preference for working as a team with Will.

This part of the confession is also very different from the argument scene because he is calling her "MY superhero" rather than just a superhero. This may seem more romantic on the surface, but to me it just proves how much he places her on a pedestal for her powers and how they benefit him and increase her positive image only. The next thing he does is talk about her powers, nothing to do with her personality, nothing to do with her bravery or anything like that. Awful wording from Mike.

And.....I can't lose you. Ok do you hear me I can't lose you.

This....is not a lie. Absolutely not - and that's what makes the rest of the lies so plausible. I don't need to elaborate that much on how attached he feels to El, how much he doesn't want to lose her because he wants to feel needed by someone, as a result of his poor self-esteem. More proof that he's saying all these because he doesn't want her to die, and he feels responsible for her life time and time again.

You can do anything , you can fly you can move mountains I believe that. I really do. But right now you just have to fight.

Wasn't the whole point of El's fucking argument that she can't do anything sometimes!!!! Putting El on a pedestal and claiming that she can actually do things they can't, exaggerating her powers to the point where its unrealistic, will just make El feel bad that she can't do those things. It will make her feel even more that Mike doesn't love her for who she is, but rather the idea of her.

His inflated idea of her is fuelled by the things that she has done for him, which include getting Will back from the Upside Down, it includes her saving him, it includes her defeating the mind flayer. His idea of her became so inflated during Season 2 when he couldn't see her, so much so that when she doesn't live up to that, you can clearly see that he acts cold. This is not love, even if it was, it's not fucking healthy.

Now, this is the point of the monologue where El looks over at Max. Up to this point, the vines have not stopped tightening around her throat, despite Mike trying his best to make her focus.

The fact that they put this image over Mike saying "you need to fight" is to portray El's reason for fighting. It is portraying the fact that the only reason she is able to fight is because she is reminded by the fact Max is in danger, and reminded by Mike that the only thing important right now is that she needs to stay alive.

However you read Mike's sexuality as, it is a fact that his love for El isn't romantic. He cares about her, he has a clear idea of who he wants her to be, and idealises that version. Whenever she doesn't live up to it, he takes it away. Her character arc means that she realises she doesn't need this in order to survive. I hope you can see the sheer amount of lies, vamping, him not wanting her to die, the ideas he has about her and think that they are not healthy.

This was such a long ass post, forgive me tumblr gods.

[bylerpining]

yes yes yes yes this is my fav thing to talk about when it comes to the willelmike triangle. will and el have always taken up the same space in mike's life!!

s1: will is gone, and el is mike's substitute for will in a way, bc she is his only mode to connect with will

s2: el is gone, will and mike connect just like he and el did in s1

s3: everything goes to shit with both of them, bc this is the first season where they're both in his life at the same time and he doesn't know how to balance them (bc while he's in a romantic relationship with el, his connection with will is inherently romantic)

s4: again, having issues with both of them bc mike is beginning to realize that there's an issue with where each of them stand in his life. he doesn't want to take things further with el bc it directly conflicts with his connection with will and where his heart is pushing him to go

BRO GETS IT IDK IF U HAVE TUMBLR BUT KISS ME ON THE MOUTH

[conflictofthemind]

I can't answer a lot of asks I'm getting about my / your opinions on this leak because y'all are putting the leak right in the ask itself and I don't want to jumpscare anyone with possibly series defining spoilers!

However my opinion and analysis is as follows!

I agree that this makes whatever they're doing with the WillElMike love triangle messy as all hell. This is going to require some heavy lifting on the writing to not give off the impression that Will is, as so astutely put, "sloppy seconds". It changes the game a bit on my opinions of Mike's sexuality. I'm neither a gay or bi Mike truther because both interpretations feel equally valid to me. But now as to not invoke the previously mentioned trope, I think they'll have to explicitly make him gay and frame his relationship to El as comphet and a possessiveness resulting from trauma.

If I disregard the handling of the romantic aspects though, my possibly controversial opinion is that this ending makes total sense to the themes of the show. Some of the show's main themes are about childhood, nostalgia, and growing up. That's also what Spielberg was trying to do with ET.

ET is based on an imaginary friend he created as a child to shield himself from the trauma of his parent's divorce. EL magically appears to Mike to provide hope and shield him from the trauma of his best friend's disappearance (and his looming feelings for him).

Mike can't let go of her because then he'd actually have to face his trauma, his grief, his fears, his queerness. She's been his safety net for seasons and she's fought his battles for him. He finally starts to feel like something's wrong in Season 4. Mike becomes a very inactive character throughout this all and then having to rely later on Lucas and Will to help fix his growing relationship issues, so he can continue relying on her. All of it completely antithetical to him being a leader and you can see the degradation of character that has happened. Leaders don't rely on people, they are the reliable ones.

Not to mention Hopper's grief and experience with Sara never being something he could get over, and still isn't over to this day. He is controlling over El in Season 3 because of his helplessness over Sara. He's barely healed the wound - just put a bandage over it with the introduction of another daughter that he can use to ignore his grief. In accepting El's death (or departure), he accepts Sara's and finally moves on. Is it sad? Yes. Is it a lot more relatable to an audience of people who have lost loved ones and never gotten the chance to have a figurative replacement show up at their door and heal the wound for them? Yes. But through it all he has still found love and a family.

For a brief segue into Max, she's never really relied on El. You can see the contrast where Max directly opposes Hop/Mike and encourages El to make her own decisions. Max is more of a mentor figure to El. She's strong on her own right. It would be devastating to her regardless but has a lot less to do with her individual character arc.

I have thought this forever and have not been able to say it because of people who will accuse me of misogyny. As if I am not a lesbian feminist who runs a himejoshi (femslash) blog, almost exclusively stans female characters and has a vast majority female friend group but my opinions on El are just because she's a woman. But this is my honest to god interpretation of the work and if all fits what we are seeing plus the stated inspirations for the show?