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While I do completely get that it makes thematic sense for Josh to just have the Wendigo end and death, I think takes about this can get over-the-top in tone. Like dang, I’ve run into people who act like you’re not literary if you wish Josh could be saved (I would honestly like that as a VERY hard-to-earn thing). I even saw a take that people who do “Josh lives” AUs are “bad readers.” That’s a wild leap.

The devs have said that Until Dawn is ultimately Josh’s tragedy.

But they have ALSO said they really enjoy looking at takes on “Josh lives.” Josh having a bad end is not some sacred thing.

i saw a post saying something about how josh being unsavable is because the story is supposed to be a tragedy and i do see the vision but i would like to argue that even if he is rescued with the others its still not a happy ending. like he's probably gonna have some kind of legal trouble on his hands and i could see the police thinking his friends are covering for him by saying there are monsters so he's probably getting in trouble AND realistically he would've lost most of his friends and it wouldn't be the same again. not to mention the possiblility of him being institutionalized- in every ending he would end up alone.

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Until Dawn fan theory (development theory about the gun-and-saw trap)

Ok…. Hear me out. I want to get my thoughts straight before I post something similar on Reddit.

I am wondering if Chris initially was not going to have the option to actually fire at Ashley. And I’m wondering if “do nothing” is meant to be the most “correct” decision.

A few months ago, I was trying to figure out why the fallout of the gun-and-saw trap scene was so weird. I started wondering if Chris had ever actually shot the gun. It actually makes no sense that he did. I looked at these things:

There’s no animation for him actually doing it. The gun gets aimed then the screen goes red with the gun shot effect.

No matter what, Mike and Sam can hear Chris telling Ashley he’s still deciding when they break into the room.

Chris is always surprised that the gun has blanks when he tries to shoot the Psycho. If he’s already tried to kill himself or Ash, he shouldn’t be surprised.

Chris’s choice is NEVER brought up by anyone even once. Nothing in the actual dialogue refers to him shooting Ash OR himself. (Josh mocks Chris for attempting to shoot Ashley in the face, but that dialogue is actually NOT tied to Chris making the choice to kill her. It’s tied to him aiming at her first. If Chris aims at himself but then shoots Ashley, this dialogue doesn’t happen which is actually so weird. Of course, Ashley’s behavior changes if he did. There’s no kiss, and she locks him out. But let’s note one thing: Ashley’s flashback when she kills Chris also doesn’t show him shooting. It shows her reaction to him aiming at her, even if that didn’t happen).

There’s also the fact that blanks will still kill you at close range, but it’s also possible we’re just supposed to accept that blanks are harmless in this world.

Now, after taking time to think and read more— I get that he is meant to have fired even if it makes no sense. The trophy says he did and so did the devs in their Halloween stream.

But I’m not done thinking about this.

My next thought was that the scene acts as though “do nothing” is the “canon” choice here. The story proceeding from this scene just behaves as if he did nothing, even if he fired already. I’ve seen people point out holes in this scene that I’ve already addressed above. BUT these largely check out if the player did nothing. Chris’s “I can’t decide” dialogue then makes sense. Him shooting at the Psycho makes sense. Nobody giving him shit for shooting Ashley or praising him for shooting himself makes sense.

To further this thought— the totem attached to this scene ALSO indicates the player should do nothing. We get a guidance totem of Chris putting the gun on the table.

So that’s where I am with this. The whole scene behaves:

like aiming at Ashley was really bad. It’s given an odd amount of narrative attention— in comparison with Chris ACTUALLY having shot her. Again, of course, him actually doing so triggers the death scene. But it was always funky to me that we have Josh’s dialogue and Ashley’s flashback only referring to the aim.

like Chris never shot. There’s no indication he did after you make the choice. So many things proceed like he did nothing. The totem tells you to do nothing even though Chris shooting himself also saves him.

So we come to my main point. I had a theory that, originally, Chris could only aim at Ashley but not shoot her after, and that, for some reason, the story was meant to lean into “do nothing.”

I stopped thinking about this theory for a while until I was just browsing through more PS3 footage, as one does. And saw this:

Here, Chris picks up the gun and there’s no initial aim option. Ashley just gives the “it should be me” dialogue. Then we have the following options: AIM AT ASHLEY or SHOOT.

Oh my gosh guys. I’m just— THIS COMPLETELY SUPPORTS MY THEORY FROM MONTHS AGO which I deleted off of Reddit because I got self conscious about it being wrong. I mean, I still don’t think this proves anything. Of course, I can’t know for sure because I can’t find a build where Chris does aim— but it looks like there was only a choice to aim at Ashley or fire at Chris. In any case, Ashley’s “it should be me” dialogue does not seem determinate. She just says it whereas that’s attached to a choice in the final game. Here, it looks like there is just one choice and it’s this.

Final thoughts:

I’m actually not sure how there initially being no option to actually shoot Ashley fits with all this emphasis that Chris should do nothing. I think there are still dev conversations that happened that I don’t know about, obviously.

I was thinking about when and why this was changed. The easiest answer is that… it’s way lame for Ashley to kill Chris over him just aiming at her. If he actually fired, her not opening the door is less petty (though…. Ugh I hate that scene either way).

Another thing to point out is that, in a Halloween stream, a dev mentioned that the gun trap was VERY hard to get right and took a lot of their energy. It seems as though they tried lots of directions with it and filmed different things.

If you have any other helpful info on this, tell me!! I’d like to post this on my theory account on Reddit but I’d love to talk it out with people more.

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Afterword.

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I’ve written fanfic for a few fandoms. And every time I get a compliment, my heart swells with joy and my head explodes with serotonin. But there’s like an extra hit of glee when I’m complimented on a The Secret History one shot. Because the person commenting has read The Secret History.

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I haaaaaate what TikTok is doing to the way we consume media.

Someone said Jess is one of the most well-written characters in *Until Dawn*, and that this is shown by her number of TikTok videos. IT’S FAN CAMS, GUYS. Jess does not have a lot of engagement because people are writing video essays about her (What would a video essay about Jess even say after ten minutes? You’d have to talk about the process of creating her character which has some interesting points. But her story lore? Barely enough for a video.) She’s prime for girl boss fan cams. But she and Matt are the most under-developed characters in the game.

Josh has way less TikTok engagement yet he is at the center of the story. He is psychoanalyzed between every chapter. He is the ONLY CHARACTER whose family we actually get lore, designs, and names for. Not to mention that his sister is VERY lore relevant and that splashes onto him, and he’s the antagonist of a whole story arc.

TikTok is going to be the death of me. It’s not even like— I hate seeming like I’m just shitting on Jess. I’m not. She’s fine! I’m not saying it’s weird to find Jess really appealing and enjoyable and like her best as a character. But the fact that we’re measuring the story value of a character in *number of fan cams* is nutso. This is like the person who said Emily is an overall main character due to her number TikTok vids.

I’m so tired of the clock app. Every opinion that escapes the clock app and makes it into my lap is so odd.

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Me, tears streaming down my face because Chris is fighting for his life and if he dies, it’s my fault: “Hell yeah I love this game.”

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obsessed with them

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Todd?!!!!???? Knox????!!!?

Here for the The Dead Poet Society x The Tortured Poets Department crossover.

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whenever i'm trying to talk myself out of buying something i don't need i always hear my old russian professor's voice echoing in my head: "WHAT??? WILL YOU DIE THE RICHEST MAN IN THE GRAVEYARD?" and then i make an unwise financial decision

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Ok more listens to THE TORTURED POETS DEPARTMENT. Here are some thoughts.

Praises:

Lyrics 🖤🤍 I know that the lyrics are polarizing, from what I’ve been seeing, but I like the metaphors and strong imagery.

The vibes are relaxing and thoughtful

This album continues on with the things I loved about Folklore and Evermore (though I don’t think anything will ever, ever top Evermore) while being still different.

Criticism

Too many songs and they start to sound similar. I generally am opposed to the criticisms that Taylor Swift’s music all sounds the same, because her whole thing is dabbling in new themes. I feel like I can really articulate the differences. That said, TTPD has 31 songs, and I love a lot of them but some of them just blend. It feels like she took a book of poetry she’d written and put it all to music, and some songs were excellent and some were just kind of there. Maybe I’m just overwhelmed.

I wish certain things had been more subtle. For example, spelling out Kim Kardashian’s name in caps in “thanK you aIMee” felt very inelegant.

Anyway, people are always really surprised when I actually talk about liking Taylor Swift. I guess I don’t give that off lol. I had her first album as a kid. I loved her at debut and have nostalgia. I was very into her music until Reputation and Lover. I did not like either of those albums aside from a few songs (“Delicate” and “Cornelia Street” 🤍). And basically I was over her. But I ended up getting Evermore to listen to during like one of the most emotionally confusing years of my life, and it was the exact music I loved and needed then. I went back and listened to Folklore and liked it. So I was back full force. Evermore just means that much to me.

Midnights and TTPD both get good marks from me. It’s not the same emotional shot-in-the-head, but both are good. I liked the lyrics better in TTPD, but Midnights had more variation.

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Uh, hello! Taylor Swift’s THE TORTURED POETS DEPARTMENT: The Anthology is great?! Holy hat— the lyric-writing is so pretty. She crushed it.

I can’t stop thinking about “The Albatross” and its possible allusions to Rime of the Ancient Mariner and the way the chorus flips. Pure magic.

And that’s before I got emotional to “I Hate it Here.”

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"What do you want for your birthday"

"Whatever possessed Donna Tartt when she wrote The Secret History"

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girls don’t want boys. girls want to know what henry whispered to camilla.

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Another ✨️WORK IN PROGRESS✨️ cause I can't bring myself to finish anything lately

It looks better in my head and I WILL make it look better

I just have to gather some stamina...

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When you turn off your PlayStation to save your favorite Until Dawn character.

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Here’s a challenge I did on Reddit.

Identify the Until Dawn girl by her manicure. Extra points if you can tell what moment I got the pic from.