angeldeviloshi

[angeldeviloshi]

Thinking about Pochita walking slowly towards AsaYoru while she's armless again.

And I wonder if he slowed down then in order to be cautious and not end up killing her like he did everyone else coming at him bc he needed Asa alive for Denji's sake. (And why he avoided fighting Yoru directly unlike w Makima despite Yoru doing way more damage.)

It's kinda ironic in a way bc Yoru wants Pochita to acknowledge her as a worthy adversary in their confrontation but Pochita's not even seeing her, which despite Yoru regaining her strength and power as War still speaks to how far she still has to go to fully reclaim herself as a horseman.

And I wonder if she's subconsciously aware that her victory against Pochita is incomplete or that the battle was one-sided but needed that affirmation of victory as proof of how far she's come. (Still thinking about how her convo w Yoshida and Fumiko at the cafe about why she hasn't turned Denji into a weapon yet felt a bit off.)

Like Makima, she just needed to believe she's defeated Pochita, it's just there's still a layer of dubiosity wrt whether or not it was a battle worthy of the War Devil and in turn how Yoru measures herself through it.

Or that she's switching things up after being made aware of how powerless she could be even with her abilities as War and has to find alternative ways to claim Pochita through Denji's heart w another form of ownership. Esp after seeing Asa's success with getting through to Denji & what was revealed about Pochita.

That Denji's love and happiness is Pochita's priority. And for Pochita to see her, Yoru has to become Denji's love and happiness in order to fully claim and stand over Chainsaw Man. And assuming this is part of the plan, I wonder if Asa is made aware of it too bc of this shared role of romance Yoru imposed on her, that she has to want and feel for Denji within required capacity for the ownership to be complete.

The craving for connection and the compassion she feels for Denji being incorporated into an outcome so terrible, hence why she believes she has to be removed and her distancing towards Denji, her being a "toxic woman" because of how little her virtues can do to establish herself and free her of her predicament.

If her presence and connection to Denji is only going to be a stepping stone, then she might as well remove herself and her heart from it, putting out her fire, justice.

But that fire might be returning again as she goes to save Denji this time.

[angeldeviloshi]

Thinking about Angel Devil symbolism again wrt his touch w the context of humanity's evil within csm and Makima's "bad movies".

Humans are flawed and Barem recognises this as an intrinsic sin that makes them the same as weapons and devils doing what's frowned upon; killing. A form of impurity that contrasts against the pure neutrality of being a mere tool or device carrying out its intended function without personal thought or motives. (Miri's dilemma of agency.)

This being echoed and contested in Makima's presentation of self and her disconnect with the "bad movies" she couldn't resonate with while operating as the state's collared dog as she's instructed not to cross unnecessary boundaries in running the Special Division. Strict linearity.

The Angel Devil, in being based on angels is made to serve a linear function to his superior (Makima) and through this assigned purity of his being, he eradicates humans with his proximity by converting them to a state of neutrality; death and weapons.

That his past is rendered a "bad movie" erased by Makima in order for him to carry out this function as her subordinate, as an angel. An extension and mirror of herself.

And of course his killing of Reze as he too returns her to a weapon in her attempt to become human beyond her identity as a tool just as Aki meets his death and is converted into a weapon through him and stripped of humanity in memory.

[angeldeviloshi]

Thinking back to intl.ass arc and what the US President said during Gun Devil arc, about Makima.

And while there are some who read it as the narrative affirming Makima is sus and evil, I personally saw Kishibe's agenda against her differing from the authorities around the world wanting Makima gone.

Kishibe suspects Makima as an enemy to humanity and knows she's a devil, he's acting on a good vs evil mindset. Whereas the governments around the world understand what Makima is capable of and the interests of whom she primarily serves (the Japanese cabinet) especially with the toys she's gained.

If Makima succeeds in claiming most of the Gun Devil, it puts power in the hands of the state she's aligned with, not just the raw power of Gun but the monopoly of guns. And eventually threaten the sovereignity of other states. Devils are weapons and Makima is honed as one of them.

Especially considering that authorities around the world have no qualms about sacrificing innocent lives and causing mass casualties and destruction (Reze's upbringing and rampage, Santa's dolls and the children given to her etc.) to secure their interests, their own "necessary evil".

And this point of difference between Kishibe and the utilitarianism of authorities around the world is something to take note of.

Especially in the way that Kishibe's idealism (and therefore his black and white understanding of devils) is the exception not the rule and that his anti-Makima faction is an extension of his desperate resistance to the evil that's normalised in the world despite his internalisation of it. And hence why he's both skeptical and hopeful that Denji was able to win with something like love that he couldn't spare.

The understanding Kishibe has of Makima's intentions for the world to make it worse via ruin vs Makima's understanding that she's creating a world that better benefits humanity.

The difference in their understanding of what humanity fears and wants out of the world, yet also being two sides of the same coin. The value of what is gained over the value of what gets lost. And is that not a reflection of the transactionality humans formed with devils stemming from how they treat themselves?

[angeldeviloshi]

Hi, thanks for the response. I do see that we're tackling this from different angles and I appreciate that you're viewing Makima from a differing perspective. Though I would argue that the analysis I've put forward isn't exactly a contradiction to what has been addressed in canon as well (pardon me if this wasn't your intention) hence the elaboration I provided.

I think what we're disagreeing on isn't necessarily Makima the character, but how we interpret Fujimoto's writing of part 1 with regards to her presentation and potential allegories.

I can see that there's a mutual agreement regarding Makima's character going beyond her nature as the Control Devil and her roles under the state as established by the narrative but that our viewpoints diverge from whether or not she's content with existing the way she does based on what evidence we infer.

I have to clarify that my lens of Makima as a tragic figure does not come from a place of woobification by virtue of her gender, but by the larger narrative of identity containment at the core of csm which Makima not only drives but shares in along with the rest of the cast.

And I would argue that the angle of Makima's unfulfilment explicitly comes from herself before the male figures you pointed out, through her foreshadowed longing for Pochita coming out of the movie date as well as her failed attempt at smoking by the cemetery alongside the context behind the cigarette as one of csm's shorthands.

I think our difference in perspective occurs in how we read Makima's situational presentation in tandem to the factors of the premise and her environment vs what is being framed directly to us by the author as a reader as a form of undisputed fact. (And likely why you find my reading fallacious in key areas.)

I understand that much of your analysis is inspired by how csm and Makima turned on expectations with how it sets up logic which in turn informs the lens you approach your analysis with, while I view csm through its threading of unreliable narrators and the rules it reveals and hides from the reader forming the internal logic of the characters.

Going back to Makima's unfulfilment being discussed by Kishibe, Denji and Pochita. I think it's important to note that the sympathetic lens they have towards Makima largely emerged in the conclusion of her showdown after what she chose to reveal about herself after she believed she's won.

And especially in Kishibe's case a softening of his stance after Denji's rhetoric seemed to have led to results and defied the logic that Makima herself stated.

When I mention that Makima's direct manipulation of the reader is an illusion, what I'm referring to is that her control over the narrative is granted through what rules the story chooses to reveal to us, the reader. (e.g what she tells the characters during Gun Devil arc vs how she's perceived as an authority figure and then the revelation of what she's supposed to be.)

And my point in bringing up Kishibe and Aki etc. is meant to highlight their role in establishing her initial framing as a character in the narrative through what she means to them as an individual, both of which carries over into Denji, which subsequent arcs build on (the love interest role in bomb and the threat role in intl.ass).

And it's noteworthy that the point where the story drops all ambiguity on her role as a villain comes with Aki's death (who had been the leading lens that frames Makima as a more charitable figure and an ally in line with the foundational exposition provided to us as the next character Denji and the reader get introduced to after entering Public Safety.) and the betrayal of the trust he placed in her for her authority. This framing doesn't stop being relevant when they're phased out by other characters but when the story acts on its expiration.

I don't think this negates or runs counter to the idea of the influence she holds in the narrative as it's simply that the influence she emits does not exist in a vacuum even if she turns a viewer's perception upside down and takes center stage. If that makes sense.

And it's this influence she wields as her power while there's a negative space the reader has been directed to which that power fell short in filling. Makima herself says that she loves humans the way humans loves dogs, yet she goes out of her way to mimic human behaviour even its self-destructive indulgences.

With regards to my point on Makima categorising herself as a necessary evil and the cruelty of her actions stemming from a vindictive place and your responses to it.

I don't read Makima's necessary evil as a decidedly moral stance on her part, she is as you say utilitarian in her methods but that's why it's a necessary evil and not simply evil. As for the emotional element behind how she acts on it, I didn't highlight them as motivation for a moral failing but that it points to the depth of her characterisation through humanisation stemming from her personal desires. Something that runs counter to what being a devil entails is told to the reader.

It's the topic of existence preceding essence that is repeatedly being contested within csm including Makima herself rather than an attempt at sanding her down through sentimentality (but one may disagree depending on preference) And I don't believe this lens is inherently mutually exclusive or reductive to Makima as a character or her presentation when the characters and themes in csm don't exist in isolation to one another in how their meanings are derived.

I think that maybe we have opposing views to Makima's class within csm too and her place in the context of oppression and change regarding her allegiance to the state (and therefore the broader context of what power she has over them, her desires and her identity.) Given that she is a devil with near omnipotent ability. We know what she said and does but the why is where we disagree.

Makima does want to create a better world but she also specifically states that a better world would be void of "bad movies" and I think it's worth considering what she means knowing her view of movies and what they mean to her and therefore her worldview.

Especially with how Pochita's abilities can serve as a form of censorship. And in turn what duality that reflects about her.

I'm capping it off here for now since I can't afford to stay up much longer, but I hope this gets us closer to understanding where we're at with less room for confusion or misunderstanding in further continuations of this discussion. And I'll try to get back to you when I'm available if there's more you'd like to touch on.

(Makima thoughts from bsky to be referenced.)

Makima's image as Control tends to be perceived as dominance what with the femdom popularisation in the fandom, but she personally comes across to me as more conformity as an ideal. Not necessarily as like a tradwife but that that the notion of conformity is itself a domineering presence in society.

Dominance more akin to taking over something and having it controlled within your sphere of influence/management. There's also just the alienating nature of her perfection and the omnipotent image she carries in the power she holds through authority.

A representation of dogma to be followed at the cost of one's self.

[angeldeviloshi]

from bsky.

I believe the reason behind Denji's tolerance of Yoru lies in the fact that he's aversive to the idea that devils are inherently evil and dangerous (and therefore must be killed) esp when that's the justification Yoru uses for her actions.

It's his personal philosophy wrt the othering of devils due to his bond with Pochita and what he experienced himself with Nayuta. He's against Yoru for herself as an individual independent of her devil nature, and in viewing her as her own person he expects her to be able to come around against what she leans on as her default.

It's a matter of personal idealogy that clashes with Yoru's and Asa's assertion of their beliefs in what is only natural. That Yoru can only kill and destroy because she's a devil and that Asa can only be killed for housing one and sharing in that responsibility. (kinda an echo to the denreze exchange on the beach)

There's also just the fact that apart from the advantage Yoru has over Denji for appearing as //female//, the fact that her life and death is bound to Asa makes it hard for him to see her as an out and out bad guy the way he sees Katana and the Church hybrids. Someone he can murderize without guilt.

But Asa insists it has to be this way and the only thing he could think of in the moment is to deter Asa from the temptation of death as a solution by making the fear of death all the more apparent to her with its harsh reality, that death spares no mercy for the hesitation of those it claims.

This is what it means to kill and be killed, and Asa is right to be afraid of what it means for her while that fear grounds her in her humanity. Through this, Denji rationalises that AsaYoru can't be the villain to be defeated by him, but Death.

And in recognising this binding of AsaYoru as one, Denji can't affirm their annhilation through Yoru's act of destruction just as the Gun Fiend's death continues to haunt him despite the devastation he caused as well as Denji's willingness to run away with Reze even if it means abetting her crimes to make a point about what she's worth.

[angeldeviloshi]

Revisiting this post because it's relevant to Fire Devil and the broader theme of protagonism it acts through in p2.

Let this sink in for a bit.

I'm just saying, the topic of the joining and symbiosis of human and devil in body and mind not just in the hybrids but the broader context of identity and perception. How does one reconcile this in oneself and another.

Smth smth the existence of devils as the reflection of humanity abusing and running away from its own fears, this notion manifested in a singular form where devil and human are one and the same, children failed by their world running on this notion and the duty to right its wrongs placed on their shoulders as they're crushed under its weight through their "special" roles.

[angeldeviloshi]

we’re on 2018 and that means that the one who goes first in the ship name is not there because they’re a top, they go there because that way it sounds better.

if you think otherwise, you’re a disgusting fujoshit who reduces a ship dinamic to what they do in bed.

[angeldeviloshi]

from my bsky.

This panel is an interesting parallel to Kishibe wrt their desire to be closer to human/devil vs their own nature.

In Buddy Stories, Kishibe believes seeing subordinates as dogs is a weakness too bc you can still feel for animals. And strives to move closer to the dehumanising nature he associates with devils in order to stand toe to toe with them.

But his compassion, what he associates with being human, still persists hence his alcoholism.

Makima on the other hand desires a family but can only see them as dogs beneath her, but she loves her dogs at home too.

Her conditioning under the state and her nature as the Control devil prevents her from forming the connection she seeks with others, only engaging with them through what she can reference at work and at home. As dogs to be used and coddled. If this is how she loves them then surely they must love her the same way.

If they're all dogs like her one way or another.

Side note, Her dogs being acknowledged by Barem as "family" and therefore worth burning for pain, linking her to Kishibe's notion of feeling for dogs as a sign of humanity + Fumiko's dismissal of them as family is interesting for this too.

(addon thread)

Revisiting this.

The context of alcoholism alongside having your screws loose trumped by Makima with Aki and Himeno as the ones who fail to measure up to her via the gap of human and devil. Esp. echoed with the panel with Power below about having restraint as a devil w a human mind and body.

Also Himeno's line "Denji WON'T die because he wants to kiss me."

Denji defeating, surviving and emerging victorious over Eternity motivated by something like her kiss. The acknowledgement of Denji's anomaly as a devil that separates him from the human vulnerability that kills and holds her former colleagues back.

Her recognition of Denji as a minor as her grasp on her existing "normal" which she pushes away to survive her job under PS, yet she teeters on the edge through her flirting with him, eventually violating his youth with the vomit (transference of her drunkeness) and the beer in bed as a precursor to sex.

That she does all of this drunk to put herself in the state of not being in the right mind while she recognises that it's not what she should be doing with Denji as a minor, yet Denji's circumstances mark him as different. Almost like a shared state of in-between she has w him.

Even the context here about quitting PS alongside fear and guilt stemming from retaliation in the form of unforgivable acts. Himeno's flippancy in calling Kobeni and Arai "kids" despite them being of drinking age (and prob not much younger than her) that being a PS hunter is to "live shamelessly".

And yet she wanted to leave too.

So back to the context of Himeno transferring her drunkeness to Denji again as the precursor to sex + her calling Kobeni and Arai "kids" as the soft greenhorns contrasted with her taking the cig away from Aki when he was a minor to preserve what normalcy he can still retain.

All of these presented as a rite of passage, growth, maturity, age through Denji's indestructibility via his immortality, power through "toughness", toxic masculinity of the CSM as Denji's manhood.

This debauchery and apathy aligned with maturity reflected in Kishibe's mentorship of Power and Denji.

Something something recognition of Denji as a child and his perceived lack of human rights and respect as a devil.

Much to think about...

Also the way Denji is designated to take down Gun for his immortality and devilhood (in Aki saving him + Makima's deal with Denji) and in turn Gun is //made human// as a fiend through Aki and the emphasis of his defining humanity through his heart to be slain by Chainsaw Man.

[angeldeviloshi]

Hi, no worries I appreciate the discussion!

Before proceeding, I would like to elaborate that when I describe Makima as a symbol of conformity as well as the perfection she presents herself through as a result, I'm referring to what she represents and inspires in-universe with her given standing, her adjacency to literal authority, which also holds influence over society and how it shapes Makima's beliefs, role and identity which she then imparts to those beneath her.

Rather than a direct manipulation of the reader as described in your reblog, which I find to be a subjective interpretation as well. And an intended illusion that speaks to her limitations as a character with designated purpose within the story given that Makima is in fact passive to how readers perceive her characterisation as well as the tropes and beats of csm in part 1.

This can be seen in how the framing in some of the panels you've shown in your examples is done through how she's perceived by the other characters (notably Denji's (or Aki's) awe of her vs Kishibe's (or Himeno's) skepticism of her which also serves to highlight a pocket narrative regarding conforming to binaristic beliefs too.) while Makima had been establishing herself by sticking to her guns as a government agent and the harshness and cruelty it would entail. She is as she said, a necessary evil. While simultaneously being the state's collared dog with dogs of her own in her Special Division 4, the collaring/being collared is the key here.

You brought up the Anima and Sophia reading which is something I've thought about too before and it fits in this context as well if we were to understand Makima as the demiurge to god (the government or fujimoto). Makima is in a position of power as well as a mastermind while the curtain unveils around her presence, she involves herself when necessary to ensure her plans do not go astray but she's also doomed to fail because the canon of csm is larger than her, even as we're shown the world she has contained in her palms with what she's been imparted as a character, a horseman, a devil and a dog.

Her incapacitation of Reze, coercion of Angel and blaming of Denji highlights this strongly as her way of nipping off diversions to her established canon (denji finding happiness without her involvement, angel having a family as a devil, denji deserving to have a normal life) her extermination of the country mouse as a necessity yet it also reveals her frustration and envy when things don't fall in line the way she understands it, the possibilities exist but she can't be a part of it because of who she is and so she maintains control of what she can reach with her influence until it feasibly converges and concludes in what she truly desires in how it most befits her perceived existence.

It's also interesting to consider Makima's integration to humanity in how she carries herself in contrast to what we're told to believe devils are typically like as unpredictable chaos. Yet her cruelty still points to her being inhuman and an enemy (to humans) despite it being of interest to (or even a product of) the state.

I've shared a post here about my thoughts on this angle here. More on it here, here, here and here.

The crux of it is in the presentation of dichotomy addressed within csm manifested as obligation on the part of the characters.

Makima herself understands this dichotomy and picks the side that leans towards order with humans yet the callousness of what her position entails makes her less "human" (which is a definiton that is also built on social constructs, hence the conformity angle in my original post.) And we can see her opposite in Nayuta who's more indulgent with her devilish antagonism yet is more grounded with her "human" side. The distanced refinement of the state as the apex of society vs the messy earnestness of Denji from the bottom rung of society.

(Makima thoughts from bsky to be referenced.)

Makima's image as Control tends to be perceived as dominance what with the femdom popularisation in the fandom, but she personally comes across to me as more conformity as an ideal. Not necessarily as like a tradwife but that that the notion of conformity is itself a domineering presence in society.

Dominance more akin to taking over something and having it controlled within your sphere of influence/management. There's also just the alienating nature of her perfection and the omnipotent image she carries in the power she holds through authority.

A representation of dogma to be followed at the cost of one's self.

[angeldeviloshi]

Thinking about Whip's words about her hybridhood marking her as a chosen one superior to humans as a buff and how that contrasts against Miri, Denji and Reze. But particularly with the case the Fire Devil brought attention back to, that is the cheapness of people's lives as collateral or assets.

Just been thinking about the irony of how despite the framing of the human vs devil conflict that frames the premise and Denji's heroism, humans do still disregard and turn on one another for selfish reasons because of motives and interests that stem from being a human.

The dispensability of Asa's life at the hands of the class prez as not just the pariah of the class but a face in the crowd from the beginning of p2 illustrates this. The sheer insignificance of the civillian deaths throughout p2 yet their life and death are worth something of value to devils.

Death consuming the dead, Yoru's weapons and existence through destruction, Falling's cooking and the head she claims etc. It's a funny irony esp. when thinking abt Pochita's relationship with Denji and how that framed Denji's capacity to feel for other humans through his hybridhood. And in turn how Asa's claim that she'd rather kill a human than a cat echoes this too even as she eventually labels herself a "toxic woman".

Because who are the hybrids without their devil identities? Miri and Reze pursue the essence and authenticity of being human by having a place in human society, the mundane sincerity defining the faces in the crowd. But they can't fully become just some nobodies just as Aki can't allow himself to stray from his purpose and lead "a normal life".

As hybrids they become important carriers to the devils within them as mutual preservation, their roles are elevated at the cost of having their personhood compromised. And in the case of Reze, she was nothing as a child trained to be an assassin and being Bomb gave her something to form herself around while simultaneously being her prison.

Like Miri, her story is encased in the everlasting struggle of identity crisis due to what they're made to be, yet at the same time it serves as drama that compels engagement to their weight as characters, an individual with circumstances that speaks to the depth they crave to be seen with. And therefore valued.

[angeldeviloshi]

Uhhhh cross-brainrot of csm and DRRR! since I rewatched the latter to supplement csm brainworms.

Thinking about DRRR and how Izaya places himself in the position of an observer/voyeur to distance himself from humanity as a means of rising above them such that even their tragedies and flaws seem entertaining or endearing to him. Even though he is himself subject to the limitations of humans, the rules as he calls it e.g dying from falling from a high place. Being rotten is a fundamental part of being human to him as much as having woes and compassion, but he doesn't let them weigh him down as an "observer" in how he measures the vastness of his "love" for humans. Categorising himself differently such that he isn't hampered by the human complexity that he can't separate himself from either, as a human himself, but still desiring to appreciate them for what they are through his understanding of it, because he's human.

The way this feeds into my csm brainrot in terms of how Barem treats humanity and devilhood/weaponhood as synonymous but also treats animals, devils and family as interchangeable, primarily stemming from perception of value and virtue. +Makima's distance with humanity despite her integration.

Barem telling Miri that humans, weapons and devils are the same because they kill, motivated by an intrinsic evil that thirsts for destruction, Barem telling Nobana/Haruka that Asa can't feel pain because she's like an animal just as much as she's a devil now. Yet also recognising the pain the death of Denji's pets would cause him because they're family.

Barem's comparisons/analogies seem contradictory but he kinda makes his point through his utilisation of human values to highlight the cruelty of himself and his views, which he embraces through his understanding of himself as a devil/weapon.

Barem is human because it takes being human to become someone like Barem, yet at the same time it's also what humanity rejects and he's aware of this.

And this is contrasted by Makima's pristine image as one who stands above humanity in what she represents, that even with her hands sullied it is perceived as an act of purging, necessity.

Such that it separates her from the qualities that become defining of humanity which she lacks and yearns equality/completion through. An outsider. But she is still herself a curated and crafted product of humanity expected to perform evil as a devil.

And ofc Miri and Reze both mark the halfway points of this spectrum.

[angeldeviloshi]

Thinking about the vol.20 omake and stars and stripes Yoru and while there's the whole interpretation abt embracing the unbridled chaos of devilhood w Asa and Denji, to me it reads more as an extension of Yoru reflecting the military industrial complex via the US as War.

And this bleeding into Asa with the things she has on hand (as potential impromptu weapons) esp w the context of theft + saving money and Denji calling her out on it. Asa has become a soldier in the context of war's exploits.

The theft wasn't necessary but it saves money and justifies itself through the creation of weapons.

Ofc this also goes into my whole analysis on the vol.20 cover and inside cover wrt Asa's protagonism with her justice which Death uses to enlist her into the Church setting her on this path.

[angeldeviloshi]

Asa rambling on bsky.

Thinking about Asa's whole thing during Falling again and how she's understood as a character. Part of the reason Falling stuck with me as one of p2's stronger arcs (which I'm an outlier on apparently 🥴) action aside, is how deeply and accurately fjmt managed to communicate that paralysing dilemma of isolation through Asa's words and characterisation.

There's been readings of Asa as being ND or consciously restraining herself due to self-hatred as traits to describe her, but I approach Asa with the angle that her personality is an adaptive byproduct of her environment which is something rarely addressed, (why I use RSD as a lens of analysing her bc that's my whole life lmao) generally there's more emphasis on her behaviour stemming internally rather than the external factors Asa tip toes around to establish herself.

It's Asa's own choice to shun others for being flawed bc she believed herself to be above them, be a do-gooder to look good for attention and praise and this has been interpreted as a form of repressed vice by viewing Asa as petty and selfish which ironically plays into the bias that corners Asa into isolation in the first place.

It's Asa's choice, but a choice that Asa had to make to fend for herself when No One Else Would. Esp. as a constant recipient of ire and antagonism for her weakness and failures. Asa understands the injustice she's had to live through but she also internalises the blame for a sense of control, even if deep down she resents it, while seeking to compensate for her negative impressions with personal virtue and passion, what she values about herself despite the demons.

That isolation is further highlighted through Asa being outnumbered by her peers or subject to a figure of authority/power. When being vulnerable hurts you and all you have is yourself, you deny yourself the means to be hurt. But that too reveals your circumstances as the outlier, the unwanted, the scapegoat. And you just want to escape or rise above the judgment to be understood as a person.

[angeldeviloshi]

Thoughts on AsaYoru protagonism somewhat shared in Kenzou's protagonism in Buddy Stories.

(Buddy Stories spoilers under cut.)

Tbh it's a shame we don't actually get to see how Yoru's confrontation w Falling went, but this is also in line with the skips on Asa's work at the Church which still plays into my protagonism thoughts.

In a way I think the detective story of Buddy Stories functions as a nice comparison point in terms of AsaYoru and Denji's protagonism wrt perspective and their respective value systems that drive it as weird as it probably sounds... (Buddy Stories liveblog excerpt listed under cut)

The way the narration provides the civillians' persp. of what PS devil hunters handle and their reaction/awe to hearing Makima's name and just the fact that Denji and Power are from PS, adds a nice layer of exposition not just in the gap between PS/civs but also to the reader if this is their entry to CSM. In a way the reader is put in Kenzou's shoes here as he experiences DenPawa for the first time, but this could also be new info introduced to you about csm's world if this is your first piece of media about csm somehow. So on the one hand, you have manga/anime fans who know the personal stories of the main cast and this is supplementary material in a slightly different lens as a treat. And you have people potentially reading this knowing nothing about the main cast past what the story lays out for you for the premise of the short story and get fed info about the greater setting and there being more to these characters you can check out from the source material. Either way it builds context to play with.

The narration emulates Power's ego when it shifts into her side of the story by playing into her genius detective roleplay and Kenzou is now playing along with her to monitor what her and Denji are really sent here for.

The thing that sticks out to me more as mentioned before is the way Kenzou and his lens is presented in framing the narrative. And it reaches the point where he pretty much became the main character by the end of it while also being a story about Power's day in the limelight. And it playing into the parallels in the shared role with Aki as the tsukkomi, the "normal" one in Aki's absence while being a civillian devil hunter, trying to align himself with how he thinks PS operates down to being a young adult wielding the same weapon and the group's voice of reason. Esp. with the context that this took place after Eternity Arc where that dichotomy of normal/screws loose presented in Himeno, Kishibe, Aki was first introduced. And before Katana Arc where it's cemented in the reader with Kishibe's training and Himeno's death as its applied and passed on to Denji as well in his bond with Aki. Kenzou's actions mirror Aki's in Eternity while ultimately also not being Aki in the way he lacks Aki's disciplined coldness that he ingrains in himself under PS. And this difference between them highlighted in Kenzou's failure of getting into PS is noteworthy along w Aki's absence as his stand-in. Esp in Kenzou's dynamic with Power where the tsukkomi/boke routine is as straightforward as you get. He's the normal guy amongst the normal guys framing the narrative inside the hotel while Power has her own detective thing going on. Similarly to how Aki himself also frames much of early part 1 to the reader as the "normal guy" which circles back in the way Aki and MAKIMA discussed the truth of the hotel and the case. Yet they're also caught in their own delusions/projections as unreliable narrators despite positioned as more level-headed and reasonable than someone like Power, presented as the utter illogical chaos that Kishibe touts as the devil hunter ideal that PS devil hunters should aspire to be. And Kenzou's rejection of that as he sees what it entails in Power, Denji, Makima and Aki amongst the gruesome corpses of the people he came with, he talked to, he worked with. Idk if I'm making sense here with this lol. I guess what I'm trying to say is Kenzou is very much this outsider looking in both as a non-PS guy given narrative status to show us his side and a character in this side story to the main cast, but also as a sort of cautionary tale of the lens early part 1 presents us with through Aki's narrative status and his connection/influence with Himeno and Kishibe (PS) that leads into Denji's Chainsaw Man legacy & cycle.

[angeldeviloshi]

(Yoru motherhood analysis further expanded on from my bsky.)

When I made my thread of Yoru as Denji/Asa's mother figure it's moreso in the angle of the social/cultural idea that a mother is Always Right. Hence the "mother knows best" phrasing.

I find that there's a general disconnect in this understanding of motherhood as a facet of evil/horror on this front likely due to cultural differences, but my view of it is generally that stern mothers are often normalised (in asian cultures at least) and justified in the name of tough love even if it turns out to be abusive (which is sadly quite common) due to traditional values like filial piety.

And mothers are the most revered on this front not just for their domestic duty but as the parent who withstood the hardships of bringing a child into the world, which is the root of why kids are kinda expected to take it when their moms lash out at them 🥴. The belief that a parent's harship will always take precedence over their child's distress.

And part of that also has to do with the idea of respecting your elders on the basis of them having more wisdom. The odds are just stacked against you for hierarchal reasons.

We can see this in Goodbye Eri too in how Yuuta's obligated to memorialise his abusive mother through a romanticised lens because she's his mother and doing so would prove that he's a good son. Which he ends up turning against with the explosions, yet it also reflects his hesitance to face his mother's death.

Even the way the story opens with this duty taking precedence over the joys of his birthday with the weight of his mother's sickness. His present literally being a tool for him to do what his mom wants, cuz it's a birthday gift from his mother. On the anniv. of the day that she gave birth to him!

So I see Yoru's tendencies esp as War as a reflection of this social construct wrt the paternalistic nature of horsemen and how that ties into authorities as cornerstones of society, which in turn affects the characters ofc. Given that domestic values are also utilised by the government to invoke an idea of national harmony and conformity. (what my mkm thread earlier was pointing to)

It's also why I personally have a hard time connecting with critical analysis of Yoru that frames her transgressions and behaviour as an individual thing when so much of it doesn't exist in a vacuum because she's first and foremost, a devil.

She pretty much illustrated it herself here LMAO.

The understanding that the cruelty and violence of conquest is presented as a necessary or noble cause for the welfare of a nation by its authorities.

But unlike the presentation of necessary evil through Makima as Control in its recognition of unpleasantry, the necessary evil through the lens of War is a logical part of the process in the detachment it calls for to enact its violence.

Cold logic over empathy in pursuit of material results. The overlap of domestic discipline and military obedience applied via Yoru's actions and behaviour. Hope I'm making sense nfsmkdjnf.

Ofc this is just one facet of the body of themes in the whole of pt2 and csm.

[angeldeviloshi]

(Makima thoughts from bsky to be referenced.)

Makima's image as Control tends to be perceived as dominance what with the femdom popularisation in the fandom, but she personally comes across to me as more conformity as an ideal. Not necessarily as like a tradwife but that that the notion of conformity is itself a domineering presence in society.

Dominance more akin to taking over something and having it controlled within your sphere of influence/management. There's also just the alienating nature of her perfection and the omnipotent image she carries in the power she holds through authority.

A representation of dogma to be followed at the cost of one's self.

[angeldeviloshi]

(Expanded from this post on bsky in a convo with someone.)

AsaYoru and chickens...

My response:

I hadn't thought too deeply about it at the time of posting LMAOO it's mainly in the egg dish being tied to family and domesticity due to its simplicity (like Denji's potstickers) but the egg and chicken also serve as a symbol of birth and reincarnation.

But extrapolating on it. I think the egg/chicken symbolism plays into the chicken or the egg dilemma, which comes first? Wrt AsaYoru if we were to view them in the lens of parent/child inferentially.

Notably, who's influenced by who? Is Asa led by Yoru (from her revival and Yoru's push on her to be more of an active player for War's goals + forwardness in making weapons or lean towards apathy etc.) or is Yoru subject to Asa (sharing a brain, absorbed by Asa's feelings and desires, reliance on Asa's body etc.)

Is Asa the child of War in her journey or War as a child? Is Yoru the mother who forms Asa or the adult Asa transforms into? Mindfucky I know.

The nature of Asa's and Yoru's revival (or rebirth) being dependent on each other while playing on a dynamic of authority and agency.

Much like how the CSM is a representation of Denji's manhood in his revival through Pochita as his heart and what informs it. Is the one who holds influence in the contract the boy who dreams or the dog who wishes to be fed dreams?

Asa's dream of the chicken carcass in the alley with Yuko's shoes. She's choosing to follow her heart as long as it's in the right place, but the dream asks her where does her heart lie really, does she really mourn Bucky and see him as a friend or was she merely devastated by what it marks her to her class?

Does she save someone because she recognises the value of their life or to feel that she managed to do the right thing instead of making a bad decision, a screwup.

How much of herself does she have to betray/step on in this new self to reach her conclusion in the darkness beyond? Both in what she can't perceive ahead of her and its potential nature.

The egg carton panel in your QRT somewhat reflects this too in Death presenting AsaYoru a form of "both choices" like Denji's, the idea that their goals/wants are not mutually exclusive. (the panel in question)

Likewise Death asking Yoru if she's just gonna have the bread plain as she consumes it with the jam and her exposition of her desire to save the CSM alongside demonstration of her hunger.

And we can see this as a transferrence of dream/goal to AsaYoru, the bread doesn't have to be plain, it tastes good with more on it. Esp since we see her pop in while AsaYoru were arguing over Asa's poem about Denji, which Yoru was vehemently resistant to as we see how Asa's feelings had seeped into her as it grows. Death feeding Denji's start and heroism through the jam bread (og dream + ch.92-93) as a proxy to AsaYoru as she becomes the idolised devil hunter of the Church in Denji's place.

This aligning of origin through Death given that Denji and Asa's transformation begun with death as their passage. The jam on the bread being what keeps AsaYoru walking into the unknown depths of the alley. And we know what happened there.