buckydeservesthebest - Tumblr blog

[buckydeservesthebest]

You mentioned Erik Selvig was subject to mind control, do you mean the guy from Iron Man III? Or from Agents of SHIELD?

If you do mean Erik the "antagonist" of Iron Man III remember that Tony Stark killed him by blowing a hole in his chest with his unibeam laser (the same one which disintegrated Bucky's arm in CW). Seems like T*ny Stark has a history of murdering mind control victims.

Hello dear anon! Thanks for your question. I was referring to Erik Selvig, Thor's friend, who was mind controlled by Loki in The Avengers movie. The point of mentioning him is that neither he, Clint, Bruce nor Helen Cho were blamed by Tony for what they were forced to do under mind control.

In fact none of them were considered guilty by any of the characters or the plot. Erik and Helen even received psychological help to help them overcome that traumatic event.

That is why it is hypocritical of both Tony and all of Marvel to hold Bucky responsible for a situation in which he had no agency, when he is an innocent victim, and they know it perfectly well.

The fact that Marvel has no problem considering everyone who has been mind-controlled as a victim, everyone but Bucky, is horrible and unfair beyond words.

[buckydeservesthebest]

OK SO HEAR ME F*CKING OUT!!!

Bucky Barnes, the Bucky Barnes we know would NEVER, EVER agree to try to murder anyone, not even bad guys, WILLINGLY.

Bucky didn't even want to kill the bad guys he faced like the Flag Smashers, not even Zemo, even when he had plenty of reasons to do so.

Bucky has made it clear time and time again that the last thing he wants to do is hurt others.

To make him act like the Winter Soldier voluntarily is horrifyingly out of character! Proving that he is not the Winter Soldier is literally the crux of his story in TFATWS!!!!

His suit in Thunderbolts has virtually the same components that HYDRA used to outfit him as the Winter Soldier.

Besides it is obvious that this scene is identical to that of CA:TWS.

The only explanation for this is that Bucky is being mind controlled again... There is no other way...

My theory is that whoever is mind controlling Bucky is using a different method than HYDRA's trigger words.

We know that something similar will happen to Isaiah Bradley in Cap4. That means the government has access to mind control methods. And Bucky "works" for Congress/Government. The new Ross government! The pin that Bucky wears is the same one that can be seen on the Ross Funko. Of course there is a connection there.

Also, we know from the book The Wakanda Files, that Bucky's brain has irreparable damage that even Shuri couldn't heal... So maybe Marvel is building on that...

Another possible explanation is Loki's scepter, suspiciously shown in the same scene as Bucky. Maybe some of the power of the mind stone is still there and that's what they're using to control him!

I strictly refuse to believe that Marvel made our Bucky become a ruthless bad guy voluntarily! THAT'S NOT THE BUCKY WE'VE SEEN FOR 13 YEARS!!!!!

Besides, if Bucky were really the kind of person to accept those kinds of missions, he would have already been recruited by Val to do her dirty work like the rest of the TBs.

Precisely, according to an insider, Congress assigns Bucky the task of investigating Val and exposing her dirt.

And if that wasn't enough, even when Bucky pretended to be the Winter Soldier in TFATWS, HE NEVER CARRIED WEAPONS!

So my complete theory is:

Bucky is being blackmailed by Ross' government to work for them, in exchange for not pursuing charges against what he "did" as the Winter Soldier, and that explains the court scene.

He is assigned the task of investigating Val.

He discovers what she is doing along with the TBs, and reports it.

At some point they (or perhaps Val herself from the shadows) assign him the task of tracking down and/or eliminating the TBs, but he refuses which causes them to resort to some sort of mind control to force him.

Bucky eventually breaks free of the mind control and ends up having to work alongside the TBs to overthrow Val.

And as a bonus, Bucky is the voice of reason and the leader who inspires the TBs to improve and be better people, as Seb said: "A guy coming into this group that was chaotic and degenerate, and somehow finding a way to unite them."

Bucky is and always has been a good man who has never enjoyed having to fight. I SWEAR IF MARVEL CHANGES THAT, WHICH IS ALL WE'VE SEEN FOR 13 YEARS, I DON'T KNOW WHAT I'M GOING TO DO.

Whatever the truth is, I HATE with all my heart that our poor boy is going through this horrifying situation as if he hasn't already suffered enough!! 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭 😭😭😭 😭

[buckydeservesthebest]

God, there really are people who suffer from existential crisis just because someone does not share their same distorted view of reality about their idols, and dares to prove that they are not as right as they think. As to take it so personal as to reach threats towards users who have every right to express their opinion.

Social networks are made to express our opinion, it is called freedom of speech. And my friend @tragicfantasy-girl has not been offensive at any time.

The mere fact that @gunsandspaceships has blocked all reblogs and replies that don't share the same unrealistic perspective on Tony is a cowardly act on its own.

These people think they have the right to criticize other people's ideas, but when they are the ones on the other side, and they are the ones being criticized, they act offended. As if they are not adults who can handle a debate with maturity.

There is nothing, absolutely nothing that excuses taking a fandom discussion topic to such an unhealthy and harmful level as to want to seriously threaten other users who don't share the same opinion. That is a crime!

Let's remember that in the end, fandoms are for the enjoyment of fans, not for us to try to lynch each other just because one of us dared to disagree with someone, and express this out loud.

Beware! About @tragicfantasy-girl

Some may have noticed that some of my posts have been attacked by this person. I wasted almost 3 days on her endless stream of nonsense (which was stupid of me). She said she was "checking me out through her contacts" (which is hilarious, btw), so I actually checked her and this is what I found:

***

I know this is very, very long and not that interesting for you guys. Just be aware of this person's hobby - annoying people from whatever fandom she's in. Unfortunately, she has now come to our fandom. Perhaps because she was blocked by everyone in SW and LotR.

I have a rule here that I don't block people - freedom of speech and fair communication, you know. But this is obvious provocative behavior that does not lead to any fair communication.

So I'll ask you - should I make an exception and block her?

[buckydeservesthebest]

One of the most ridiculous things someone (a Tony fan) could say to try to defend Tony's inexcusable, selfish outbursts, is to say “why didn't Bucky apologize”. Let me hold my breath after laughing! Did they even watch the movie blindfolded? No, they watched it with filters excusing their idol's bad decisions of course.

Take a good look at what happened here. Sam apologized for Rhodey's accident even though he wasn't directly responsible for it. And what did Tony do? Did he listen? Did he understand? Haha of course not! Tony did what Tony does best, react out of an emotional outburst, and without any attempt to reason the situation out.

Now, are you still able to say that “if Bucky had apologized Tony would have acted differently”? Are you still able to defend that idea?

Doesn’t matter if he was brainwashed or not – his hands were used. “Sorry” is always good in such situations. He didn’t do that.

To say that Bucky had to apologize for a situation in which his agency and identity did not exist and in which he was just another innocent victim, is one of the classiest and lowest acts of victim-blaming. NO, Bucky did not have to apologize for a situation in which he DID NOT HAVE THE REMOTEST CONTROL OVER HIS ACTS. Bucky had nothing to apologize for, just as Clint, Bruce, Erik Selvig and Helen Cho also had nothing to apologize for what they were forced to do under mind control, because they were victims too.

It is hypocritical of Tony to blame Bucky when two of his friends were also victims of mind control and caused a lot of damage under this state, and yet he never condemned them for it.

It is hypocritical of Tony to blame Bucky, when he himself knows what it feels like to have someone mess with his mind.

And it's even more hypocritical of Tony to blame Bucky WHEN HE KNEW FULLY THAT BUCKY IS INNOCENT, AND THAT THE ONLY PERPETRATOR OF HIS PARENTS' DEATH WAS HYDRA AND NO ONE ELSE. But I think the worst part of it all, is that part of the reason Tony wanted to kill Bucky was to hurt Steve! Tony was going to take the life of a man he knew was innocent to get revenge on someone else! This is horribly unjustifiable beyond any words. BECAUSE IF TONY FELT BETRAYED BY STEVE, THAT IS SOMETHING HE SHOULD HAVE SETTLED WITH STEVE AND ABSOLUTELY NO ONE ELSE.

It is interesting, or rather predictable, that this Tony fan would use precisely the idea that Steve betrayed Tony as a way of trying to excuse his vile attempt to murder an innocent man. NO. Let me tell you, this is not an excuse that justifies murder, absolutely no one with morals could say that this is excusable in any way.

And back to “Bucky's lack of apology”. Do you even remember the conversation between him and Steve: "What you did all those years... it wasn't you. You didn't have a choice." "I know. But I did it."

Did you even watch TFATWS and notice that when Bucky revealed the truth to Yori, he said: "I have to tell you something. About your son. He was murdered. By the Winter Soldier. And that was me."

The reason Bucky has never tried to excuse himself or apologize is because he believes he is responsible, even though he had no control over that situation, so he doesn't believe he deserves to be forgiven either. “Assuming responsibility” is precisely what Bucky did in the ‘I remember all of them’ scene, because Tony wanted him to ”admit it.”

In the writers' own words, “Tony wanted to hear Bucky say that he did it and wanted to see him suffer.” TONY WANTED SOMEONE HE KNOWS PERFECTLY WELL WAS NOT RESPONSIBLE IN THE LEAST BECAUSE HE WAS MIND CONTROLLED TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT HE IS “RESPONSIBLE”!? HOW COULD ANYONE IN THEIR RIGHT MIND SAY THAT THIS IS JUSTIFIABLE?

Tony Stark: I didn't approve any shipment. Christine Everhart: Well, your company did. Tony Stark: Well, I'm not my company.

Iron-Man (2008)

Tony himself knows what it's like to be blamed for something he had no say in. Bucky is NOT the Winter Soldier, Bucky is NOT the living weapon controlled by HYDRA. Bucky Barnes is an innocent victim and TONY KNOWS IT PERFECTLY, BUT HE SIMPLY DOESN'T CARE.

It's because of the difference between the situation with T'Challa, that Bucky decides to tell him that he wasn't responsible for T'Chaka's death, BECAUSE HE LITERALLY DIDN'T DO IT.

Bucky is not running here. He wasn’t trying to run until Steve told him

Bucky wasn't trying to run away earlier because he didn't want to leave Steve alone having to deal with a flying tank with murderous impulses. That's why when part of the fight centered between Tony and Steve, and Steve was getting beaten up, Bucky decided to step in and help his best friend, and not run away while Tony was distracted. Bucky was not going to abandon his best friend when he was at a disadvantage in the fight and could end up dead! Would you run away and abandon your friend to his fate?

This is the face and reaction of fear, of a man who is trying to be killed by a guy in armor who is the equivalent of an erratic atomic bomb with murderous impulses.

And yet someone dares to say that the real victim of this whole situation is Tony, who committed the deliberate murder attempt, and not Bucky, who was unjustly tried to kill?

Only someone with no real sense of morality could think something like that.

Review of some anti-Tony comments from Ao3. Part 6

Let’s talk more about things from Part 1 today:

 “Tony was actively attacking someone from behind, who was just trying to leave.”

Eh? So how did that happen that he only attacked from behind ONCE? Semi-behind, to be exact - see my post with Part 1. Why Bucky tried to leave if he was innocent? Just like he did before with T’Challa. “Why did you run?”.

I’ll add the extension of that statement here so we could figure the whole thing out: “Steve was actively defending said person in any way, even if that meant attacking Tony from behind.

And before you get on me about how I'm being hypocritical - it's been done - it isn't the action that's being criticized, it's the WHY behind the action. Tony repeatedly attacked someone from behind who was only trying to flee the scene vs Steve repeatedly attacked someone from behind to protect his best friend from being killed. That's the difference between the two. You can't hold them to the same standard when their reasons for doing the same action are complete opposites. It isn't the action; it's the reasons BEHIND the action.”

Let’s think about the most appropriate thing Bucky could do in the scene instead. Well, first he could say “I’m sorry”. That would be a good start. Doesn’t matter if he was brainwashed or not – his hands were used. “Sorry” is always good in such situations. He didn’t do that.

Instead he raised his gun at Tony and was ready to fire at his face (CA:CW 2:03:15). Yes, Tony hit Cap there. But it was for a reason. And you simply don’t point a gun at a guy who just watched his parents die by your hands, if you are innocent and truly regret this. It was so wrong to attack him that it just showed Bucky’s position “there’s nothing to explain and nothing to apologies for”, if the best thing Bucky could do is to raise his gun and run. Low and cowardly.

But we should actually take a closer look at that scene (starting from 2:02:17), because it’s even more complicated if we watch the scene frame by frame.

2:01:33 – Tony is watching the video of his parents’ death. Steve looks at him with a very interesting expression. At him, not at the video. He already knows what’s going on there. He is looking at Tony for his reaction.

2:01:38 – focus on Bucky who looks a bit regretful, looking at the floor first, but then raising his eyes to Tony.

2:01:53 – Tony hears his father saying “Sergeant Barnes” and his mother calling “Howard!”. Tony glances at Bucky.

2:02:05 – Winter Soldier hits Howard in the head and kills him. Tony’s expression tells us he is enraged.

2:02:25 – Winter Soldier kills Maria, strangling her with his biological hand.

2:02:33 – video ends with Winter Soldier shooting at the camera. Tony is in shock. Steve is looking at him, saying nothing. He had enough time to say something.

2:02:40 – Tony turns to Bucky and makes a step towards him. Not putting his helmet on. He is not attacking yet. Most probably he just wanted to grab him by his jacket and ask some questions or something like that. What Bucky does? He raised his gun at him. We can see tears in his eyes. Why did he do that then?

2:02:42 – Steve says “No, Tony. Tony”. He says that to calm him down, and that would be a good start. But then he does some “stupid-ass decisions”, how Fury would put that.

2:02:45 – Tony turns to him. He is devastated. He just realized something. “Did you know?”. Steve’s eyes are shifting rapidly, and after a long pause (when he was thinking of what to say, I guess), he says “I didn’t know it was him”. By his behavior here we can infer that he is lying. Tony sees it “Don’t bullshit, me Rogers. Did you know?”. Steve looks Tony in the eyes and swallows hard. “Yes”.

Let’s make a digression to show Steve really knew that Bucky killed Tony’s parents.

CA:WS 1:04:50 – Zola is explaining how Hydra eliminated unwanted individuals. Chronicle footage shows Bucky with a sniper rifle and then next frame with news article about Starks’ death. Zola says “Accidents will happen”. Next few frames show Howard in the car in the same position Bucky left him in the CA:CW 2:02:10 scene.  Then Fury’s file is shown, “deceased” – another victim of the Winter Soldier. No need to be a genius to put two and two together. Especially when you don’t know that there were other Winter Soldiers yet. There were no other options – Steve and Nat knew that Howard was killed by Bucky from that exact moment. But let’s add more evidence, shall we?

CA:WS 2:05:28 – Natasha gives Bucky’s case files to Steve. Logic tells us that they should contain his targets. Including Howard and Maria.

CA:CW 2:15:52 – Steve’s letter says “I know I hurt you, Tony. I guess I thought by not telling you about your parents I was sparing you, but I can see now that I was really sparing myself. And I’m sorry…”

Conclusion is pretty clear, isn’t it?

Let’s get back to the pre-fight situation:

So Steve admitted that he knew who killed Tony’s parents (and his own old friend btw).

2:03:05 – Steve’s “Yes” hits Tony. Rogers is just looking at him there. No sorrow or regret in his eyes. Tony loses it.

He is the victim in this scene. He came to help and was betrayed again.

2:03:12 – he hits Rogers with back of his hand. Cap is thrown a couple of steps back.

2:03:15 - Tony puts his helmet on. Now he is going to attack.

Put yourself on his place and answer the question “wouldn’t you act the same way?”. If your answer is “nope, I wouldn’t” - try to pass a CAPTCHA, because you are most probably a robot.

Same moment – Bucky points his gun at Tony. He almost opens fire, but Tony shoots the gun with a repulsor, knocking the weapon out of Bucky's hands. Back to the beginning of this essay – why would you shoot at a victim? Tony, most probably, would just hit him couple of times using his hands, if he had not faced counter aggression.

 Bucky is not running here. He wasn’t trying to run until Steve told him to at 2:04:02. He is attacking Tony. Look at his face (2:03:17). This is not the face of regret or sorrow.

[buckydeservesthebest]

We believe and profess Bucky's innocence.

Any act or attempt of victim-blaming or ableism towards his person is considered an extremely serious offense and will be prosecuted as such.

Long live the innocence and heroism of Sergeant James Bucky Barnes!

In this house we love and support Bucky Barnes. We do not stand for any Tony Stark fans saying he deserved to be kIlled or sacrificed on the altar of Tony's vanity in Captain America: Civil War.

[buckydeservesthebest]

T*ny who knows what it is like to be blamed for deaths "that were not his intention" (but in his case, which he was aware could happen).

T*ny whose two of his friends were victims of mind control but who did not blame any of them for what they did in this state.

T*ny who knew perfectly well Bucky was also mind-controlled and had no control over his actions, being a victim just like his friends, but simply didn't care, because his selfish desire for bloodlust was unfairly directed towards the victim who suffered the most in the whole situation and not towards the real perpetrators. And of course, incidentally also trying to get revenge on Steve, because in the words of the writers: "he also wants to hurt Bucky to hurt Steve... 'you love this thing so much, I'm gonna take it away from you'".

T*ny wanted to kill a man who he knew was innocent, who was unarmed and who at no time fought back to get revenge on his friend/ally? And so they call him a hero!??

Notice how the writers refer to Bucky as "thing/it"... they shamelessly dehumanize him and act as if that is normal!?? This is unforgivable to say the least!

Of course they're going to try to excuse Marvel's spoiled brat, even though he's one of the most flawed, most self-centered, narcissistic and cynical characters of all... And on top of that, the biggest victim of the whole situation is blamed...

that part where tony’s blast gets reflected by steve’s shield & he ends up shooting himself in the face is the only good scene to come out of cap3

[buckydeservesthebest]

Bucky who was drafted into the army and did his best to fight for his country and for the greater good, even though he never enjoyed fighting. And he only put on a brave face so that Steve and everyone would believe he was okay...

Bucky who didn't want to go back to the battlefield and risk being captured again, but fighting for the greater good and watching his best friend's back was more important...

Bucky who after having some peace in Wakanda did not want to join another battle but fighting for the greater good was more important...

Bucky who never wanted to fight, but when the world needed him he didn't hesitate for a second to risk his life to defend it, always putting on a brave face for everyone to believe that he is okay...

He has put his life on the line for the greater good more than anyone ever has.

"The guy to make the sacrifice play" was alway Bucky...

"Why", you ask Steve?

Marvel Comics

♥♥♥

[buckydeservesthebest]

That someone has openly acknowledged Bucky's very complex and tragic nature, without branding him as a villain or a bad guy, is a great little achievement on the way to our boy being recognized as an innocent victim by everyone... 🥺🥺

Thank you Seb, without your genuine interest and care for Bucky and your outstanding performance this would not have been possible...

“Sebastian Stan has above all become that familiar face for many fans of the Marvel Universe, that of a mutilated, frozen, ex-American soldier turned ruthless killer. It’s James “Bucky” Barnes I’m talking about, of course. Sebastian Stan has been donning the Winter Soldier’s costume for ten years now in the Captain America film series, the Avengers, and other TV series. But it’s above all, because he succeeds in conveying the pain, doubt, redemption, and above all, hope of this broken man caught up in the torments of his past.”

I’m so glad they are acknowledging the talent it takes to play Bucky. Sebastian is finally getting his flowers.

[buckydeservesthebest]

It is interesting, or rather predictable, that Antonia can be recognized as a victim and never blamed for what she did under mind control, because well... she is a woman, and "women are always victims". Even if after regaining her freedom, like Yelena, she continues to do dirty jobs like contract killings, theft, etc, as will be seen in Thunderbolts.

There is also the case of Echo, who no matter how many crimes she committed while working for Kingpin, was never depicted as one of the bad guys, but rather as the victim of life's adversities that led her to that life of vandalism. We are supposed to sympathize with her, and by the way, her disabilities as both a deaf and an amputee were NEVER joked about at any time. Even Clint's hearing problems were not the subject of jokes either, and if I recall correctly, there wasn't a single joke about Thor's one-eyed situation either, or Fury's… and if there were it wasn't for a derogatory purpose, unlike Bucky.

We can conclude that: both Clint and Thor are disabled male characters, but at a much less severe level than Bucky. Clint was also a victim of mind control but at a much less invasive, damaging, severe and lasting level compared to Bucky.

Thor and Clint are blamed subtly for crimes or mistakes they committed while conscious, of course. But in the end they are still heroes, still a symbol and still respected and loved by their friends, by society and also by Marvel production.

But Bucky is the only one who does not have this privilege, in the eyes of Marvel he will never be more than a “former villain in search of redemption”, redemption that he will never fully achieve, because according to them “he will always have to take responsibility for what he did and recognize himself as guilty”, in the words of Kari Skogland. They are deliberately denying him the opportunity to become a hero from the beginning. They are never going to allow him to step out of the Winter Soldier's shadow and be something more.

And why? As you rightly say, it may be because of the bad luck of being the combination of being the only male character to have his agency and identity taken away from him, subjected to the will of a third party for decades, and who is also disabled and amputee.

Bucky is literally the embodiment of the worst experiences anyone could ever suffer, and he is the only one who is blamed and vilified for it...

🤡 Markus and McFeely 🤡: “Yeah, Bucky’s just a POW who had his entire agency explicitly removed in not one but TWO ways but he’s for sure guilty because we don’t want him to have fruit salads with Steve”

[buckydeservesthebest]

One of the things that I find interesting about the situation of the other mind control victims, is that in comparison, the degree of subjugation and inhumanization that Bucky suffered was far worse in every way...

I mean, unlike him, absolutely none of the other characters were stripped of their identity, they all knew who they were, they knew their names, their family and their history. Each of them continued to exist as a consciousness/person. HYDRA broke Bucky's mind, for decades they tried to erase, remove and take away everything that made him himself, and it was only until they succeeded that the Winter Soldier's programming began, not before, because as Zola's notes said, Bucky's will continue to resist. To force him to do what they wanted, Bucky had to cease to exist, and even then, despite all their attempts, his memories and emotions continued to surface over time, which is why the erasure of his memory and the use of trigger words was mandatory before every single mission.

Regardless of how the other types of mind control work, neither Clint, Erik, Bruce, Jessica, Luke, Yelena nor the other Black Widows had to be "broken" before they began to comply with the orders of their mind controllers. Perhaps there was indoctrination in the case of the Black Widows as infants, but it was precisely because of this that they were not "broken" morally and psychologically, because nothing they did under mind control went against the beliefs the Red Room instilled in them, quite the contrary.

It also seems to me that there is another big difference between Bucky's case and that of the others. And is that unlike Bucky, all the others had a certain degree of freedom that allowed them to be able to perform actions that required more thought and planning. As in the case of the BW, who to be able to do complex jobs such as espionage and infiltration had to be able to act, pretend, lie, make decisions on their own to fulfill their mission, *without* the need for Dreykov to order them to do so. It came from one of the BWs the idea to request Taskmaster's intervention after Yelena defected. One of them even told Taskmaster to "smile"! An indication that they retain their emotional capacity.

Clint played an advisory role for Loki, thinking and offering the most efficient tactics and plans to accomplish his goal. Erik offered his scientific knowledge for the same. The point is that they kept their ability to think at a complex level, so that they both thought on their own about the best way to help Loki. In Jessica's case for example, the act of assassinating Reva Connors was not exactly the order Kilgrave gave her, he told her to "take care of her", and while the order was ambiguous, the idea or impulse to "kill" technically came from Jessica.

Interestingly, both the mind stone and Kilgrave's mind control seem to make their victims believe, to a certain degree, that they want to do as they are told to do. That's why in Clint's case, the respect he felt for Fury influenced his intention to kill him, as Loki told him. Kilgrave's case is clearer, as all those who have been controlled by him feel that they want to "please" him. Even the case of the Black Widows seems similar, as Yelena said "you are fully conscious, but you don't know which part is you". And if I remember correctly, Jessica also questioned at some point which part of her was the one following Kilgrave's orders.

When the Winter Soldier was activated not only did Bucky not exist, but the remaining non-person was under a trance that forced him to comply with the orders of his handlers, he was not even conscious of what was going on around him. That's why the missions HYDRA assigned him were "simple", assassinate a target, leave no witnesses, retrieve objects and/or protect his handlers. No espionage, infiltration or advice on planning and tactics, no actions that required more freedom to think on his own. He didn't even understand Pierce's sarcastic question about whether he wanted milk, because he had no wants. He couldn't even speak unless he was ordered to do so! Each and every one of his actions were, what I'd call, robotic, programmed, without a level of reasoning or complex or abstract thought, unlike all other cases of mind control.

And the irony is, of all the mind-controlled victims who were forced to commit murder, the only one who suffers endlessly with remorse is Bucky! The only one who feels like a monster who does not deserve forgiveness is Bucky! The only one who feels he must make amends is Bucky! Neither Clint, Yelena or Jessica feel they must right the wrongs they were forced to do.

The horror of being controlled is never addressed for Bucky like it is for Clint, Erik, Jessica, Bruce, Yelena, even for minor characters like the people of Westview.

THIS. Each of them have said "poor me, I'm a victim of abuse by a third party and suffered greatly". *They recognize themselves as victims*. Bucky has not once complained about the 70 years of torture and enslavement he suffered, or the life that was taken from him, or the identity stripped from him, no... because what haunts him are the crimes he was forced to do, and on top of that he believes he is the victimizer and not the victim in these situations. And yet some Marvel executives dare to say that he "hides behind the excuse of lack of control"!? He has literally never tried to excuse himself! He has literally done the complete opposite, believing himself to be solely responsible for the wrongs his captors have done, for a situation in which he didn't have the remotest agency.

But of course, everyone else can be recognized as 100% innocent by the rest of the characters, by the premise of the show and by the production itself. Everyone, absolutely everyone, but Bucky...

I swear this... this situation, this unfairness outrages me, infuriates me, makes my blood boil and turns my stomach beyond what any words allow me to express....

🤡 Markus and McFeely 🤡: “Yeah, Bucky’s just a POW who had his entire agency explicitly removed in not one but TWO ways but he’s for sure guilty because we don’t want him to have fruit salads with Steve”

[buckydeservesthebest]

So beautiful I can't 😭💕💕

[buckydeservesthebest]

God... the more I think about this issue... the more analysis and perspectives I read about the injustice that Marvel has subjected Bucky to non-stop... I feel worse.... I mean, this is literally the worst mistreatment in every way a company has given his character that I have ever seen..... You guys basically said everything that needed to be said...but this makes me so mad I want to give my two cents..

1. The way in TFATWS they wanted to make Bucky look like a willing participant of HYDRA, rather than an enslaved man who had his agency and identity taken away from him, contradicting the canon we know all too well is the height of chutzpah. Bucky was never indoctrinated, his mind was broken and rebuilt until Bucky as a person/consciousness no longer existed. As the Winter Soldier, he had no beliefs, desires, motivations, opinions, or thoughts of his own. He had none of what makes up an identity, which is why the Winter Soldier IS NOT an alter-ego, he was a trance state devoid of consciousness.

And that is why to say that he is "not morally innocent", as some claim, is absurd to say the least! Because nothing he was forced to do was done with "malice," which is the definition of being "morally guilty". Bucky couldn't even reason out that "speech" Pierce gave him about "he was doing the right thing". He didn't even understand the question about whether he wanted milk! Because the Winter Soldier only existed to obey orders and nothing else...

2. I mean... this was a reference to the slave trade too! And such a sensitive subject was treated as a "joke" without any kind of shame! And yet some people dare to say that Bucky "is not a victim" in this situation because he agreed to go along with Zemo's plan? Bucky was dehumanized, treated like an object to be sold... The level of trauma he was subjected to, that was only treated as a subject for laughs... is horribly unimaginable... By definition, Bucky is a victim of this specific situation as well!

Also, can we talk about how he felt somehow responsible for the Flag Smashers issue after believing HYDRA was behind it all? It is for unjustly believing that HYDRA was "his people and his cause" that he feels responsible for all the evils they caused... And this unjustified and aberrant perspective is shared and fueled by all the characters and by the very production of the series.... HYDRA was his captor and slaverr, and in all the evils they caused the most harmed in every way was Bucky....

3. I personally think that, out of all the terribly handled themes in the series, Bucky's attachment to the shield is the least far-fetched... I mean, the shield is Steve's most personal belonging, it's the embodiment of everything he stands for because it was he who gave it meaning in the first place. The shield represents the spirit of sacrifice for the protection of others, the two times Steve gave it up was because he chose Bucky as more important. Sacrifice to protect is basically Steve's main dogma... And well, generating emotional attachment to the belongings of a loved one we lost is totally normal, because it's a way to continue maintaining that connection, to continue feeling close to that person... And when that loved one is the only family you had left... when you have nothing else... the attachment and the need to preserve and protect that belonging becomes very, very strong...

Beyond the fact that maybe Bucky's sister is still alive, which I really doubt very much, they seemed to drift apart after the death of their parents. She moved to Shelbyville by the time Bucky joined the military. The point is that from that moment on, Steve was the only family Bucky felt he had... And after everything that happened, their brotherhood was strengthened even more. Canonically, Steve is the only person who believed in Bucky, he's the only person who saw him as himself, as his friend, as his brother... when for the rest of the world he was just the Winter Soldier... And when Steve was gone (or rather abandoned him), Bucky was left all alone...

It's worth noting that when grieving the identity of the mourner is severely affected, because part of what forms our identity are the interpersonal relationships we form with others. Steve was not only the only person who truly believed in Bucky, or the only family he had left. Steve was the only thing he had left from his past life, the only one who could understand what it's like to have to adapt to a world he doesn't feel a part of... That is why the degree of importance, of pain, of shock and sadness of Bucky's grief is far beyond what anyone else could ever experience... This explains the reason for the strong attachment to the shield and Bucky's feeling of wanting to protect it as well as the legacy of his best friend...

And regarding Bucky's other relationships... let's be honest, outside of Steve, he didn't have any other true friendships. The only time the Wakandans seemed to treat him with respect was in the post-credits scene in BP. Keeping him with only one arm in IW, and on top of that tasking him to do farm chores, offering him the prosthetic left arm only until the battle got closer to Wakanda and *not before*, thus reinforcing the idea that his arm and Bucky himself can't be more than a weapon.. is already insensitive and dehumanizing enough on their part. And don't get me started on Sam, who even before TFATWS always had a hostile and rude attitude towards Bucky, criticizing every single innocent comment he made and barely tolerating his presence just because of Steve...

4. Gosh... what more can I add.... Sam, Dr. Raynor, who bragged about being "one of the people who want to help Bucky", literally nothing, absolutely nothing in her attitude made the remotest reference to the intention of wanting to help him. And as you guys rightly said, NO ONE, EVER, AT ANY TIME AT ALL, EVER TREATED BUCKY WITH EVEN THE MOST MINIMAL RESPECT THAT SOMEONE AS A VICTIM AND SURVIVOR OF ABUSE, DESERVES. What can we expect from other characters like the Wakandans, Sharon, Isaiah, much less Zemo? Each and every one of them represented a different angle of victim-blaming, ableism, dehumanization and discrimination towards Bucky, whose sole purpose was to feed the false and outrageous idea that Marvel has insisted on selling, the idea Bucky cannot be a victim.

5. Just the sheer idea that Bucky's nightmares are caused by "guilt for his sins," i.e., they are self-inflicted, and not the product of decades of torture, brain damage, and the worst case of PTSD in history...There are countless other examples, but I think just this one idea alone says it all... This exhibits the null knowledge, the null interest in investigating what trauma is and how it is adequately treated in the victim and survivors of abuse, in war veterans, in people suffering irreparable brain damage, in disabled people... All this is displayed in the most cynical and shameless way in the world.

And everything Bucky suffers from, all the mental illness, all the irreparable brain damage and its side effects ARE NOT MAGICALLY GOING TO DISAPPEAR BECAUSE HE "DID THE WORK" AND PUT HIMSELF INTO THE SERVICE TO MAKE OTHERS FEEL BETTER, following Sam's "mOtiVaTioNal sPeEch." NO! THAT'S NOT HOW YOU DEAL WITH THE TRAUMA OF AN INNOCENT VICTIM AND SURVIVOR OF DECADES OF ABUSE AND ENSLAVEMENT!!!!!!

Damn it! No matter how many times I express this... I'm never going to feel like it's enough nor is it going to stop making my blood boil...

But speaking specifically of the "therapy", from what I've been able to read, sadly the IRL therapy offered to war veterans is not much different... because its purpose is not to help them feel better but to *get them in condition to return to work*. This makes me wonder... if all that was planned from the beginning to make Bucky "a functional operative" that the government could recruit whenever it wanted? That's what he was to Walker, just a "valuable asset" that he wanted to have at his disposal... and not a man who has been through the worst horrors anyone could imagine.

Will this be the direction we will see in Thunderbolts? The government using any method of blackmail and manipulation to force Bucky to work for them is something I can totally see coming... sadly...

It pains me to say it... but the idea that Marvel will never let Bucky live in peace, that they'll never let him shed the Winter Soldier's shadow, that they'll never let him be more than "a reformed villain", let alone that they might someday recognize him as a victim, the victim who has suffered the longest... are very very unlikely hopes....

This infuriates and frustrates me beyond what any word will allow me to express...

Bringing this back because there is still confusion: Bucky is not responsible for the crimes of the Winter Soldier. The analogy is not “if you crashed your car and killed someone you still need to be responsible for what your car caused”. It is not “if you’re a soldier who followed orders you still need to be responsible for the life you took”. Bucky was not distracted or indoctrinated. He was induced into a state where he had no idea who he was, could barely recall what he did, and where “he will do anything you tell him to”.

The correct analogy is “if someone hijacked your car, tied you up and locked you in the trunk, then drove your car into people, you are not held responsible for what happened to the victims because you were as much a victim as they are”. Yes, maybe you will feel guilty for not putting up enough of a fight, or for not killing the hijacker when you thought you had a chance. But you should be told by your good therapist that while your guilt is a natural reaction of a good person, it wasn’t your fault and you should not make contact with the other victims on your own, much less apologise on behalf of the people who hijacked your car.

I hope that’s how you get treated in the real world anyway.

[buckydeservesthebest]

I'm really terrified of the direction Marvel will take Bucky in Thunderbolts.... First of all being a congressman doesn't make any sense to him unless he is being forced in some way to work for the government. My theory is that Ross' new presidency is the one blackmailing him not to pursue the charges against the Winter Soldier, in exchange for working for them... hence the courtroom scenes...

But the way in which it seems Marvel will never let Bucky disassociate himself from the Winter Soldier name and develop as a hero in his own right is terribly hopeless...

And the fact that they pair Bucky with John, Yelena, Ava and Antonia, who do fall into the category of former bad guys seeking redemption, is an attempt to continue vilify him disguised as a "healing process," in the same aberrant way they presented his "amends" arc in TFATWS...

It looks like Bucky is wearing a harness again in Thunderbolts*

It seems that the costume department are once again utilising the iconic Winter Soldier costume motif, the harness, as a symbol of control and Bucky’s constant subjugation to the powers at be - which, if they stick with Valentina’s comic origins, could potentially be Hydra.

He still isn’t free :(

[buckydeservesthebest]

The way Bucky was never excited about going to war, because he knows knows its horrors, but fighting for the greater good was more important. So he just put on a brave face so Steve would believe he was okay...

The way Bucky didn't want to go back to the battlefield after experiencing those horrors first hand, but fighting for the greater good was more important and there was no way he would leave his brother alone either. So he just put on a brave face so Steve would believe he was okay...

"The guy to make the sacrifice play, to lay down on a wire and let the other guy crawl over you." That was always Bucky.... 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭

Sergeant James Barnes, shipping out for England first thing tomorrow. SEBASTIAN STAN as BUCKY BARNES Captain America: The First Avenger (2011)

[buckydeservesthebest]

I want to start by apologizing for my previous post, it was terribly terse, and I didn't explain myself as I'd have liked, as I ignored many factors that must be taken into account. The truth is that I wrote it while I was in college online classes... it wasn't my best idea...

Back to the topic. You have interesting points. I think this is a much more complex topic than we initially thought... The mouse in my head didn't stop spinning until I came up with this two-cent theory:

I’d like to start with the point that it actually makes a lot of technical sense that Bucky under the Winter Soldier programming possesses the memories of what happened in his missions prior to the memory wipe. I mean, it doesn't mean at all that every instant the WS is activated he remembers everything, but that the memories are there and when his handlers order him to give information, he can, with some effort, access them.

Let me explain, the first decades after Bucky's capture, HYDRA tried in all its capabilities to eliminate all his memories and thus make his identity disappear, as they needed a… it hurts me to say it… blank canvas that offered no resistance to start with the conditioning and programming. But we know that all this presumed "wiped" memory was never truly gone, as Bucky finally regained his identity, so in reality what they did was not to erase but only to suppress all this data in a very recondite place in the subconscious of his brain so Bucky's consciousness could not manifest itself and interfere with the Winter Soldier's programming.

But according to Zola's notes (in The Wakanda Files book) even without an outside stimulus to help him remember his past life, as Steve was, Bucky was already beginning to manifest memory fragments and emotions on his own, which is why immediately after each mission they would place him in cryostasis and at the start of each new mission they would begin the process of memory erasure and the use of trigger words.

My point is, no matter how much damage HYDRA did to Bucky's brain over the decades, they could NEVER truly erase the memories of his past life, so that means the memories Bucky acquired as the Winter Soldier could not be erased either.

In reality, it would not be convenient for them to continue to cause such severe damage to Bucky's presumed “formatted” memory, because his brain must still be able to apprehend information. In fact, it is under the REM sleep state (the type of trance to which the Winter Soldier is subjected) that the brain is most receptive to information, there the brain regions used for learning are stimulated. That makes sense why HYDRA chose this type of trance, because it is the best way to make the human brain accept new information... basically, reprogramming it.

Trying to eliminate the memories the Winter Soldier acquired during his missions is directly proportional to the brain damage caused. And severe amnesia causes damage to semantic memory (general knowledge, facts and concepts), procedural memory (this is the memory of skills and procedures), short-term memory (the ability to retain new information) and anterograde memory (refers to the difficulty to form new memories after the onset of amnesia).

All of this would be counterproductive for HYDRA, as after every memory wipe before every mission, they would have to basically retrain the Winter Soldier in combat tactics, use of weaponry, tactics to leave the scene of the crime unseen and without leaving a trace, and a long etcetera... This is definitely a situation they don't want to deal with...

This must mean that the ECT to erase Bucky's memories must be located more specifically in the oldest memories, those of his past life that make him who he is. Long-term memory is mainly stored in the hippocampus, according to the studies I could read, and precisely in the Wakanda Files book, Shuri says that this is the area most widely affected.

But leaving aside the more technical aspect, and returning to what Marvel has let us see, it is worth noting that when Zemo asked Bucky for the specific place in Siberia where he was held captive was *after* having pronounced the trigger words and the Winter Soldier was activated, because Bucky would never have shared that information voluntarily.

Zemo: "Why don't we discuss your home? Not Romania. Certainly not Brooklyn, no. I mean, your real home" (this is the moment when Zemo shows Bucky the red book and starts to say the trigger words, with no other flashing scenes).

That means Bucky did remember what he talked to Zemo about while he was under the Winter Soldier trance, because well, that's the information he gave Steve and Sam.

Also, there's the fact that Bucky remembers information about the other WS, like they were HYDRA's most efficient assassins before receiving the serum, etc... (the following flashback about them seemed to be a flashback Bucky had, at least that's the impression I got). This is information he must have heard by the time his handlers had assigned him the task of physically training them. And this seems to be something Zemo asked him as well, as Bucky thought that was the reason he wanted to get to Siberia. And in any case if this was information that Zemo told Bucky in that moment, it'd still mean that he remembers what happened under the Winter Soldier state.

And Zemo's comment: “Did you really think I wanted more of you?” reinforces the idea that they talked about it. (By “you” Zemo must be referring to Bucky, as he replies, “what the hell?” in confusion.)

So why couldn't Bucky recognize Steve and Natasha? My theory is that the WS's level of conditioning and programming is such that he is literally incapable of performing an action that is not part of the order his handlers gave him. I mean, if they ask him for information about a much earlier event, as Zemo did, Bucky is forced to go out of his way to remember and access those memory files that do exist, even if they are very hidden, but if the action of remembering is not part of the order then he doesn't have to, or rather, is unable to remember.

Note: I think this shocking degree of conditioning could be seen in the training of the other WS. For the order given to Bucky was to train them, and one of them seemed to hold the upper hand in combat. But once the situation got out of control and Korpov ordered him to get him to safety, the order changed and he was able to defeat almost all of the WS single handedly. All this maintains the familiar stance that the Winter Soldier exists only to obey... i'm not okay... 😭

Also, when Bucky questioned Pierce about who Steve was, it was because when a tiny fraction of his memories came back, a tiny fraction of his personality surfaced, and this allowed him to ask a question. For the Winter Soldier never questions, because he doesn't have that capacity. So, I wouldn't say it was so much that “what Bucky’s handler said doesn't make sense for him, but he can't be sure” but rather that he was incapable of performing on his own the act of trying to recall and access those memories of the supposed mission Pierce was telling him about. (added to the fact that his short-term and long-term memory are in constant flux, something he cannot control... I'll explain it below)

Natasha's case is simpler because the assigned mission for the Winter Soldier was to neutralize or assassinate her, remembering her was not part of the order of course, also she doesn't represent anything important in Bucky's life to remember, unlike Steve.

But he couldn't remember Steve when they met again on the Helicarrier either, right? Well, Bucky also had no flashback manifestations when Steve called him “Buck”, unlike the first time. I think it was the fact that HYDRA subjected Bucky to another ETC within a short time of each other - which they hadn't had the need to do before - or perhaps that this ECT was more intense, which caused Bucky to take much longer for a fragment of his memories to manifest.

That's why it took longer for Steve to try to get him to remember, tell him that his name is James Buchanan Barnes, that they are friends and have known each other all their lives, and it was until the end with “I'm with you until the end of the line” that finally a glimpse of Bucky's memories came back. I mean, Steve had to try a lot harder this time to get the same effect that calling him “Bucky” had the first time.

Note: I feel like besides the new ETC, the reason it took Bucky a lot longer to remember was because that was the order Pierce gave him, like “if that guy in disguise wants to make you think you know him, don't listen to him, you don't know him, don't think and just take him out” or something like that... and hence the very aggressive reaction to try to combat the resurgence of memories…

I find it interesting that at the very end of CA: TWS, despite Bucky remembering a sliver of his life, which gave him back his autonomy, there was not a flashback of his life before being captured by HYDRA to follow, unlike the first time Steve called him by name. So, I think maybe this could mean that in this case, he didn't have a manifestation of episodic memory, i.e. a memory with images, voices, etc. But rather it was a manifestation of emotional or associative memory, i.e. feeling that he knew Steve and feeling that he was a very important person to him, feeling that he was his family...

Note: Associative memory is memory through associations, such as a smell or a song, in this case I'd say it was the phrase “I'm with you until the end of the line”...

Did in the following time, more memories and flashbacks manifested in Bucky's mind? Well, this is difficult to answer, because there is nothing to indicate that his rate of memory retrieval is linear or constant, I mean, it is not continuous or patterned.

In fact, in the book The Wakanda Files, Shuri says that repaired memory centers/retrieved memories are temporary! For Bucky's short- and long-term memory are in constant flux.

"it was as if Sergeant Barnes was in REM sleep while awake, in a dream-like state where he would comply with orders. And while in this induced state of mind, his short- and long-term memory were constantly in flux. However, the shared memories of Barnes with his best friend, Steve Rogers, *momentarily* fired memory centers, jogging bits and pieces of his past life while in the sleeplike trance." “It would seem that stimulus, especially emotionally resonant stimulus – the sight of a loved one, the mentioning of a familiar phrase, etc – has the ability to access a presumed “wiped” memory in those who have been brainwashed… *at least for a fleeting moment*.” – The Wakanda Files

So, this means that if Bucky retrieves a certain amount of memories at a certain instant, he may no longer have them a moment later. That explains why his backpack was just full of notebooks with notes everything he can remember, for fear of losing those memories, just like those with Alzheimer's, as Seb put it.

So, the idea that Bucky didn't quite recognize Steve at their meeting in Bucharest is not far-fetched, because it's possible that at that time he didn't quite have memories of him or their friendship but only what he read about him in the museum. So, his response “I read about you in the museum” would technically be true!

Then, the idea that Bucky had access to all the memories of his past life at the end of CA: TWS is actually not correct. In fact, it can be seen in CW, in the talk he had with Steve when they arrived in Siberia, that the memories of their childhood together were something he was remembering even at that point, as he didn't remember Dolores' name, for example. The point is, each and every one of Bucky's memories come and go (maybe only until before he got help from Wakanda), so they can be there one moment and for the other not, he can go a long time with no trouble remembering and a second later lose a bit of information.

Now, according to all this we can make a relationship between the percentage of memory obtained, the percentage of personality/identity manifested and the degree of influence of the Winter Soldier programming. We have that:

Percentage of memories gained is proportional to percentage of identity manifested.

% of acquired memories = % of manifested identity.

The percentage of manisfested identity is inversely proportional to the degree of influence of the Winter Soldier's programming.

In other words, the more memories Bucky recovers, the more of his personality comes to the surface and the less effect the WS trance state has on him.

This may explain the change in Bucky's personality at the beginning in Bucharest, for if by that time the amount of memories he possessed was small, i.e. his manifested personality was not complete (ergo: the Winter Soldier trance state was still influencing his behavior), then his continued nervousness and hyper-vigilance - yes, this in addition to the PTSD already present - was normal. And this would explain the slightly more aggressive behavior when fighting the SWAT team in the fight in his apartment. Also, did you notice how Bucky knocked Steve down immediately after he touched his shoulder? It was a self-defense reaction based on the tension induced by the trance-like state of the Winter Soldier.

Note: I believe Bucky was really really trying hard not to kill or hurt anyone, but the influence of the WS trance-type, which is mostly violence, was still having an effect on him (sorry if I have said it many times already, but I feel that if I don't, the sentence loses meaning), so he couldn't control the aggressiveness of his fighting form even when he tried. But our boy is so good that in the end he was able to control himself enough to actually not kill anyone... :')

Now, following this logic, this would also explain Bucky's more relaxed and cooperative behavior after passing out, as the severe head concussion would have brought back his memories/consciousness in a way analogous to how the emotional stimuli from the outside (the power of friendship) did the two times in CA: TWS. That being the case, Bucky immediately recognized his best friend and returned that affection and that gentle, soft manner with which he always treated him in the past.

Note: This means that the concussion to the head had a greater effect in giving Bucky back some of his memory, as opposed to the external emotional stimuli whose effect seems smaller (sorry Steve).

You can see in his body language how the memories started to flow in his mind… “Your mom's name was Sarah...You used to wear newspapers in your shoes.” He even laughed when he said this! That is a spontaneous reaction to a thought that is forming at that moment.

So, the sequence of events, where Bucky first asks “what did I do?” and then with effort remembers what he talked to Zemo after the Winter Soldier was activated, is not contradictory, because:

i) His short and long term memory is in constant flux.

ii) He had just woken up from a concussion fainting so it's natural that he was confused and that it took a while for his memories to start flowing.

Note: In this scene he appears to hit his head as he releases his arm from the chair, was this intentional? Was he trying to knock himself out before Zemo finished uttering the trigger words? Had he succeeded, he would have regained his memories upon awakening... 😭😭

Now, finally speaking of Tony, does it make sense that Bucky said he remembers all the victims he was forced to kill? The answer is yes, it can make sense, in the interpretation in which that information exists in Bucky's brain, those memories are stored there. And Bucky's ability to access those memories, while volatile, also exists. And by probability, the possibility that at some point in time all of those memories will suddenly appear in Bucky's mind, also exists.

Perhaps... perhaps and at that moment, in which Bucky said that to Tony, he had indeed remembered a large number of those victims, maybe not all of them because he could not be sure, but a considerable amount that in the metaphorical sense can be taken as “all”... that is possible...

Then there is the more symbolic perspective of the situation, where saying “I remember all of them” is a way of saying “all those deaths are something I'll carry forever, even if I don't remember literally all their faces... their deaths matter to me....” ... this is the interpretation I always had of the scene....

Note 1: But I also agree with the interpretation that by saying this, even when true, Bucky was giving Tony the excuse he was looking for to try to kill him... and if someone had to die there, Bucky wanted to make sure that was him... tell me our boy is one of the noblest characters of all without telling me! 😭 Note 2: I totally agree that, although Bucky remembers the people he was forced to kill, it would be in any case, a memory of only their faces and not their identities, because this cannot be deduced (unless HYDRA gave him the names, but I think this was never shown), as in the case of Tony's parents, certainly Bucky did not know their identity until the moment he saw the recording...

So, well, I feel all of this would disprove the idea that Bucky tends to lie or fudge the truth about his memories to put the situation in his favor (which, indeed, there is absolutely nothing wrong with), because Bucky is at the mercy of the volatility of the manifestation of his memories, and he can only rely on what he remembers at the time. Also, nothing that has been seen about Bucky indicates that he ever lied to turn things on his favor.

We can come to the conclusion that it is not a question of whether in the ABC situations he was Bucky or was not (not counting the time he was under the control of HYDRA, because here Bucky did not exist), but the percentage of Bucky's consciousness/personality that manifests. Nor about whether his memories are reliable or not, but about the volatile flow of memories that come and go and the ability to access this information that always exists.

*Again, I apologize for the wrong impression I gave in my first post, on the subject of emotional detachment to memories and whether Bucky's memories were reliable or not, i expressed myself terribly badly, so please feel free to ignore it.*

.

Now, talking about whether TFATWS confirmed the fact that Bucky remembers everyone. The short answer is yes. This was the premise of the series, and the book "The Falcon and The Winter Soldier: The Art of the Series", which we can consider canon because it was published by the entire production of the series, clarifies it:

In fact, Bucky's line in episode 6 also confirms it: “You think your cause justifies all this death, but in the end, the nightmares won’t go away. You’re gonna remember all the ones you killed. Trust me. Don’t do this. Don’t go down this path.” (no Bucky, HYDRA was never your cause, because your consciousness didn't even exist at that time!)

There is also Spellman's comment he gave in an interview: "So when Bucky enters the series, he's never ever shaken what he believes, which is, 'I remember everyone, murders, which means that part of me was there, which means a part of the Winter Soldier is me.' And if even a fraction of Winter Soldier is you, you are an awful person."

Talking about the idea that the show doesn't explicitly say that Bucky's nightmares are memories. Actually, the show did say that, again in a Bucky line:

Sam: “You still having those nightmares?”

Bucky: “All the time. It means I remember. It means a part of me is still there. Which means a part of the Winter Soldier’s still in me."

Yeah, it’s clear that he seeks information about those victims in order to make amends, but those nightmares are still memories, because those events are information, and well, by definition a memory is the brain's ability to retain and retrieve information.

Nightmare = Memory = Information

Speaking about the amends, well, in fact, it was never explicitly said that the government imposed them on Bucky as a condition of his pardon. In reality, only mandatory therapy was discussed as the only condition. That's why in episode two, the cops arrested him for not attending the mandatory session.

In the conversation between Bucky and Dr. Raynor it is made clear that it is the government's intention to be sure that he is a “non-dangerous member for society” (the real dangerous people were the ones who at the time were the Winter Soldier's handlers, as by himself he didn't have the capacity to do anything!). And therefore, the necessity of mandatory therapy...

“You’re a civilian now. With your history, the government needs to know that you’re not gonna… It’s a condition of your pardon. So, tell me about your most recent nightmare.”

That's why the only issue she wants to talk about is whether he's still having nightmares, not whether he's made progress with the amendments: “So, Mr. Barnes, are you still having nightmares?” “So, tell me about your most recent nightmare.”

And later again: “So, you did it all right, but it didn’t help with the nightmares.”

It seems that for Dr. Raynor nightmares are considered as “a sign that something is not right" (no! they are a manifestation of PTSD caused by decades of torture and are treated with years of a real healthy therapy!), so it has to be worked on so that Bucky can reintegrate into society. And for that, it was concluded that Bucky “had to make amends to make him feel better" (that's not how this works, on the contrary, it's only harmful to him!).

It always seemed to me that amends are something that Bucky wanted to do. I mean, it's an idea that came from him. He let Dr. Raynor know about it at some point and she imposed those “three rules” on him...

And about the idea that Bucky didn't have nightmares in Louisiana because he wasn't thinking about the list. Actually, Bucky told Sam that he has nightmares all the time... this has nothing to do with thinking about that list or not...

Sam: “You still having those nightmares?”

Bucky: “All the time....”

Again, nightmares are one of the many ways in which PTSD manifests itself and depending on the severity (Bucky's case must be the most severe there has ever been) it requires years or decades of real healthy therapy to disappear, if it disappears at all. In addition, what Bucky suffers from is NOT only PTSD, but irreversible brain damage and many serious mental illnesses... and none of this is going to magically disappear because of "Sam's motivational speech and putting himself at the service of others" (which is nothing more than victim blaming and... ahhh.. but I won't talk about it right now)...

So, the possibility Bucky will always have nightmares is very high... 😢😭

Maybe this is part of the reason we find him in such a depressing state in Thunderbolts???? :'((((

“That line was an interesting moment. At the time, the choice I was making is that [Bucky] had realized there was no way he was getting out of there, and someone was gonna die, whether it was gonna be him, Steve or Tony. When he says that line, to me, it was a turning point — he was, like, ‘Okay, I know what you want me to say, and I’m just gonna say it.’ When someone comes at you over and over again, and they can’t hear you, they can’t see you’re pleading with them, you’re trying to figure out how to get through to them and they just won’t accept it, at some point you just give in, and you go, ‘that’s right, that’s what you want.’ Of course [Bucky] didn’t remember them all.” —  Sebastian Stan

[buckydeservesthebest]

Thanks for sharing your opinion!

I was reviewing the CW's Berlin prison scenes to be sure. And when Zemo asked Bucky about the specific place in Siberia where he was held captive it was *after* he had spoken the trigger words, i.e. the Winter Soldier was activated. So, with difficulty, Bucky did remember what he spoke to him under the trance. Also, he remembered information about the other Winter Soldiers, such as that they were HYDRA's most efficient assassins before receiving the serum, etc. All added to the fact that in TFATWS it is made clear that Bucky does remember every single mission he was forced to do, all of that was more explicitly stated in the book “The Falcon and The Winter Soldier: The Art of the Series”. And for better or worse, this is canon now…

So, the mouse in my head kept going round and round trying to make sense of it all, and I came up with a theory where the dots seem to connect, and that is that all the memories of Bucky's experiences as the WS, are there stored in his brain, the problem is the volatility with which these memories manifest themselves.

Thanks to the book The Wanda Files, we know that, under trance, Bucky's long- and short-term memory is in constant flux, and when an external emotional stimulus is received, in this case Steve, momentarily repaired certain memory centers that allowed Bucky to recall fragments of his past, presumably erased, at least for a fleeting moment.

This means that, sorry to repeat, all that memory is there, it exists, but the damage to Bucky's brain prevents him from remembering everything, all the time. That is, his memories come and go without him being able to do anything about it, but those memories do exist. This would explain why after waking up from the head concussion Bucky asks what he did, and later recalls it with effort. I'm working on a complete theory of how it's all related and makes sense… I'll post it as soon as I finish…

By the way, I totally agree that, although Bucky remembers the people he was forced to kill, it would be in most cases a memory of their faces (unless HYDRA gave him the names, but I think this was never shown), as in the case of Tony's parents, certainly Bucky did not know their identity until the moment he saw the recording...

“That line was an interesting moment. At the time, the choice I was making is that [Bucky] had realized there was no way he was getting out of there, and someone was gonna die, whether it was gonna be him, Steve or Tony. When he says that line, to me, it was a turning point — he was, like, ‘Okay, I know what you want me to say, and I’m just gonna say it.’ When someone comes at you over and over again, and they can’t hear you, they can’t see you’re pleading with them, you’re trying to figure out how to get through to them and they just won’t accept it, at some point you just give in, and you go, ‘that’s right, that’s what you want.’ Of course [Bucky] didn’t remember them all.” —  Sebastian Stan

[buckydeservesthebest]

Well, it's a fact that after TFATWS it's indisputable that Bucky DID remember every mission he was forced to do, and therefore every person he was forced to kill, so he was telling Tony the truth. I always felt this scene as a way for Bucky to express that incessant guilt that would stay with him forever, even though he was the victim who suffered the most in all of it..

But I can't blame Seb for interpreting Bucky's line that way, since by that time it surely wasn't even thought about whether that issue would ever become canon. Although on the other hand, it is implicit that Bucky was obliged to remember everything that happened in his missions (including all the assassins), because at the end of each one of them, his handlers always demanded detailed reports of this missions.

This was also seen in the non-canon comic Captain America: Civil War Prelude Infinite Comics, where we saw for the first time the nightmares that Bucky suffers every night..

And although this is non-canon comic, it still offers this detail as an addition to Bucky's character, an issue that was later canonized...

It is possible that Bucky was obligated to remember absolutely every mission and be a sort of database, so that in a given situation he could provide the information his handlers demanded. Just as he remembered the 1991 mission that happened 25 years before the events of CW...

I'd also like to refute the idea that Bucky supposedly lied to Steve in Bucharest by saying he didn't know him... I mean, he never said he didn't know him!

First, we must start with the fact that by this point, Bucky was not yet released from the Winter Soldier's programming - this can be seen in his body language, he is tense and hyper-vigilant all the time; and this is also confirmed by the book The Wakanda Files - he had only regained a small fraction of his memories which allowed him to regain his agency but not his identity as such, at least not completely. That's why at the end of TWS, Bucky's next stop was the museum, where he read about himself as well as Steve.

Bucky wasn't sure if his memories were real or completely reliable, so it was only the museum's information that he can fully believe. Steve's question was "do you know me?", not "do you recognize me?" or "do you remember me?" In case, could Bucky say he really knows him? When he can't totally trust the few fragments of memory he has, which are to him as if they belonged to someone else, they are memories, information, to which he feels no emotional attachment as such...

So his answer: "I read about you in the museum" is the most honest and true, because what Bucky can be sure about Steve is only what he read about him. That's why in the Berlin prison scene, he didn't answer to the name James even though he knew that was one of his legal names, and he answered "my name is Bucky" because he only felt a connection to the name Bucky.

And it was only after he awoke from the blackout caused by the helicopter crash that Bucky's personality/consciousness fully emerged. (That's what happened with Clint and Banner, they broke free from Loki and Wanda's mind control respectively after suffering a blow that caused them to pass out.) He recognized Steve immediately, his body language seemed more relaxed, his speech was more fluent...

So no, Bucky wasn't "using his memory fragments as something to bargain with if things weren't in his favor", because by that point he wasn't even Bucky completely, and while still under the trance-like effects of the Winter Soldier programming his little memory wasn't very reliable even for himself.

The fact Bucky was back to his old self right up until that very moment, 71 years after being captured by HYDRA, is beyond me... 😭😭

“That line was an interesting moment. At the time, the choice I was making is that [Bucky] had realized there was no way he was getting out of there, and someone was gonna die, whether it was gonna be him, Steve or Tony. When he says that line, to me, it was a turning point — he was, like, ‘Okay, I know what you want me to say, and I’m just gonna say it.’ When someone comes at you over and over again, and they can’t hear you, they can’t see you’re pleading with them, you’re trying to figure out how to get through to them and they just won’t accept it, at some point you just give in, and you go, ‘that’s right, that’s what you want.’ Of course [Bucky] didn’t remember them all.” —  Sebastian Stan