#mcu salt

[eddiesheep]

I love the theory that the elderly Steve at the end of Endgame was a skrull. Why? Because it would literally fix EVERITHING revolving Steve's ending, as well as major plot inconsistencies.

⤷ How come Steve was able to just... wait out at the same park that his past-self left for the past when it was clearly established that when you go back in time to change something, a new branch is created in the timeline, creating a completely new reality, therefore it would be impossible for old Steve to just wait at the same park to meet up with Sam and bucky? (it was literally the explanation they gave as to why they couldn't just go back in time and kill baby-Thanos lmao)

Because that wasn't the real Steve Rogers, it was a skrull pretending to be him.

⤷ Why would Steve ever want to go back to the past to live the rest of his life with a woman he barely knew when it was already established by Steve him-fucking-self that he was ready to move on?

Because he wouldn't. That wasn't the real Steve Rogers, it was a skrull pretending to be him!

⤷ How could Steve ever be capable of living his cute little domestic life, when logically, the past version of Bucky would still be out there at the same time as him? Being abused, brainwashed and tortured into becoming a cold-killing machine for HYDRA??

Because he couldn't. That wasn't the real Steve Rogers!

⤷ In what world would Steve ever be physically capable of, not only forgiving, but also living the rest of his life with Peggy Carter?? Peggy-fucking-Carter??? You know, the woman who knowingly hired and worked with NAZIS??

None! That wasn't the real Steve Rogers!

⤷ How come Steve would ever have the balls to leave Bucky- no! Not just any Bucky- THE James Buchanan Barnes, to fed for himself in a whole new world he has not yet had time to understand as well as Steve did, when he PROMISED him that it would always be them against the world? Till' the end of the fucking line?

Because he would never! That wasn't the real Steve Rogers!

See what I mean? That could transition into to such an interesting conflict too! Maybe (to tie in with a better version of Secret Invasion idk) it was part of the skrulls' plot! To take Captain America off the picture, and manipulate others into believing that Steve just left them out of his own volition, as a way to discourage anyone from looking for him. To make taking over the earth easier!

Gosh! The concept of skrulls has got to be one of the most interesting, most scary concepts the MCU has ever introduced, losing only to The Red Room.

And yet, just like The Red Room, the MCU fucked it all up. I hate it.

[legalandnotease]

You know what annoys me most about Endgame (well a lot of things do), but most of all?

The way that it completely ignores what Natasha did. How crucial her actions were to the ultimate victory. Instead they tried to make Endgame into Iron Man 4, and pretend Tony saved everyone singlehandedly. Yet the truth is the plan to reverse the snap would *never have worked* without Natasha's sacrifice.

They had to have all of the stones to snap everybody back- and they also had to have all the Stones to snap Thanos away. Even one missing, and not only would the Snapped have stayed dead, but Thanos would have won a second time.

In truth, it was Natasha who saved the universe and Natasha who ensured ultimate victory against Thanos. Anybody could have snapped Thanos away (it didn't have to be Tony), but few could have paid the ultimate price for the Soul Stone.

In fact: let's talk about the Soul Stone. It was the most difficult and costly of all the Stones to obtain. I read that some theories that the souls of the Snapped were contained in the Stone, and so it was the key to bringing everyne back.

Meaning that Stone was also the one which allowed Thanos and his army to be Snapped away.

So again, it all comes back to Natasha, and her choice on Vormir.

Yet she didn't even get a funeral. The movie just completely ignores her to give Tony all the credit and all the fuss when he actually did very little.

And had to be emotionally blackmailed and tricked to do even that. Natasha was willing every step of the way.

[buckydeservesthebest]

I'm going to write my own general response since some Sam Stans have started with absurd posts about how in their distorted version of reality Bucky "has been a bad friend and betrayed every black person he has ever met"... *sight* this could not be more stupid, untrue and unfair.... 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

On the subject of Bucky and the rest of the New Avengers "working for Valentina", I already wrote a long rant explaining that there is NOT a single shred of proof of this. And that at the end of it all, the OG Avengers literally were formed by a government organization (SHIELD), Sam was going to form his own team of Avengers at Ross's instruction and was going to work alongside him had the Red Hulk scandal not happened and Ross not ended up in prison. THE AVENGERS WORKING TOGETHER WITH THE GOVERNMENT IS NOT SOMETHING NEW. BECAUSE WORKING WITH THE GOVERNMENT DOESN'T MEAN BEING SUBSERVIENT TO IT.

Bucky having his own team literally does NOT in any way in the remotest way affect Sam, because literally nothing detracts from him or minimizes him as Captain America or in any other way, nor does it somehow prevent him from being able to form his own Avengers team and operate as he sees fit.

So this description of "traitor" to refer to Bucky COULD NOT BE MORE STUPIDLY FALSE AND BE FARTHER AWAY FROM REALITY.

And for those who complain that one of Bucky's team members is John Walker, does everyone forget that they already worked together briefly at the end of TFATWS to capture the FS and there was no problem??? Bucky does NOT hate John, literally the only disagreement from Bucky and Sam towards Walker was over the possession of the shield, and that problem is over, so don't come whining that Bucky can now be his ally, because there is literally no moral impediment of any kind for them to be part of the same team.

And do people forget that, again, Sam was going to work alongside Ross?? The same guy who ordered the extrajudicial execution order (which is literally illegal) against Bucky, convicted him as guilty for the UN bombing without a fair trial, which is literally also a violation of his human rights, and on top of it all lamented that the SWAT team couldn't kill Bucky. Ross is a horrible person (no better than Valentina) and literally ordered Bucky's murder, and I don't see anyone calling Sam a traitor because he was going to form an Avengers team under his instructions and was going to work in conjunction with his government.

So don't come with your shitty double standards calling Bucky a "traitor" either, when no one called Sam a "traitor" for allying himself with the one who ordered the murder of his friend.

It's almost funny how no Sam Stan has ever wanted to acknowledge the ableist and victim-blaming attitudes Sam directed at Bucky. All those horrible jokes and tasteless comments like "cyborg brain", "bionic looking machine that killed almost everyone he met", "we're not assassins" "you're going back to your frozen rat diet of your time as the Winter Soldier", that only in the mind of imbecile could be funny. All of this disgusting shit is ableist.

Sam literally held Bucky responsible for what he was forced to do as the Winter Soldier ("you were stopping all the wrongdoers *you* enabled as the Winter Soldier" ep. 5) and gave him "advice" that is exactly the same as Dr. Raynor's, and is nothing more than re-victimization.

There is absolutely nothing healthy about telling a victim of abuse that they should "make amends" for something they were a VICTIM of. Let alone showing up with the other victims of the same abuser and apologizing as if Bucky was the victimizer and not another victim. This is extremely dangerous and damaging to both parties. Already a real life therapist created a Twitter thread where she explains absolutely everything that is wrong with this.

Sam is NOT a victim of abuse or mind control, nor is he a therapist trained to talk to people who are victims of this situation, so he can NOT go around pretending to give advice on something he knows absolutely nothing about. That is unethical.

If you think that telling this truth is "racist", let me tell you that there are people in the black community who think exactly the same thing. Are they racist too??

...

Oh and regarding the Wakandans issue...I've talked about this a lot before, but in light of some Sam Stans wanting to revive this ridiculous issue as an excuse to try to vilify Bucky.. 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

*sigh* first of all the reason T'Challa offered Bucky assistance in removing the Winter Soldier's programming from his brain, was not because of how magnanimous T'Challa is in wanting to help a poor man who had suffered too much, but rather that that assistance was given in the form of an apology for having spent it trying to kill him without being sure if Bucky was the one truly responsible for his father's death, and also in the form of thanks because thanks to him and Steve, T'Challa was able to get to the one truly responsible. The canonical comic Avengers Infinity War Prelude literally said so:

So while Bucky is grateful for the assistance Wakanda offered him, he does NOT owe them lifelong loyalty nor is he limited to only doing what feels right to them and did not represent a damage to their pride, because that is a stance worthy of an abuser.

So NO. In absolutely no way did Bucky betray Wakanda because Zemo's temporary freedom does NOT affect them in the slightest. Literally Bucky always intended to send him back to prison and literally Ayo understood this and that's why he gave him the 8 hour deadline to come back for Zemo, and literally Bucky NEVER objected to this.

Regarding Zemo. Literally the plot gives Bucky the reason to enlist his help and assist him in his escape, because as "the foremost expert on Hydra and the super soldier program" his knowledge was needed to figure out how the serum was recreated to get to Karli. This is what canon book The Art of TFATWS says, and it literally also says that Sam knew this and agreed.

People deliberately and conveniently forget that Zemo is NOT only responsible for the death of T'Chaka and the other dozen people from the UN bombing. Zemo was also an ABUSER of Bucky and one of the people who hurt him the most in his life. Zemo framed him for the UN bombing causing everyone to try to kill him, put him in the crosshairs of any Hydra member that still existed, had him imprisoned in cell that was electrocuting him all the time, subjected him to mind control and forced him to kill people and fight his friends which caused more charges to be added against him, etc, etc, etc. Now it turns out Wakandans know more about their own abuser than Bucky himself?? This is bullshit.

In just world part of Zemo's sentence should have been for all the damage he caused Bucky.

And the point is, again, Ayo understood and agreed with Bucky's plan and that was why he gave him an 8 hour deadline to come back for it. Ayo was NOT upset about that. Ayo didn't handicap and dehumanize Bucky because she felt "betrayed" but because she was upset that he had stopped her from committing unjustified murder against Walker. Bucky tried to reason with her and only defend himself with non-violent techniques, Ayo disconnected his arm in a low and dishonorable move, and now it turns out that Bucky is to blame?? 🤡

"Bucky betrayed the Wakandans" say the same people who always planned to betray him by putting a kill-safe (on a prosthetic that he didn't even request to have in the first place, but was given to him by T'Challa himself for him to fight for his nation) behind his back whose unawareness could have proved fatal to him, in case by sheer bad luck something could activate it when Bucky was hanging on to it for his life...

IT IS NOT JUSTIFIED UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES TO REMOVE DISABILITY ASSISTANCE FROM A DISABLED PERSON.

BEING A BLACK PERSON DOES NOT GIVE YOU A FREE PASS TO HAVE ABLEIST AND VICTIM-BLAMING ATTITUDES TOWARD ANOTHER PERSON.

And yes, people in the black community also think Ayo's attitude was unjustifiable.

Are they "racist" for daring to say this?? Of course they are NOT.

[eddiebloombug]

the blorbo-ification of john walker that’s been developing in this fandom lately has been.. interesting to witness. i’d be less mad if marvel built a compelling reason to root for him and his development after thunderbolts (because i don’t subscribe to the idea that characters can be irredeemable) but like.. we have yet to see a compelling reason to root for him (imo obviously). i think people just saw a man being sad and sassy and completely forgot that he was the physical representation of white privilege in the narrative of tfatws. he became cap with miles less resistance than sam would have had initially, despite steve gifting sam the shield. walker had a violent episode and murdered a civilian (who, reminder, did NOT kill lemar) in a scene that served to contrast the extreme levels of restraint and self-possession sam has to show AT ALL TIMES to even be a hero as a black man in america.

and then in thunderbolts, john is just a man with a few funny lines, and a few sad lines, experiencing (minimal) consequences of his actions (his wife leaving him, public backlash. honestly he could be in jail.). once again i’ll say, i’m not even opposed to a john walker redemption arc. i just think it’s poor storytelling by marvel to not address the themes of race/privilege so inherent to john walker’s character in tfatws if they’re trying to “redeem” him and put him in the mainstream of mcu heroes. and i think it’s an interesting interpretation by fans to ignore the themes of race and privilege in walker’s character to go ahead and woobify him into a lovable pathetic wet cat man, in love with bob and play-bantering with bucky.

the crux of john walker’s character is this: he is a white man who achieved things far easier than others with more personal merit could. he entered the us military as a young man and spent near-constant years involved in foreign intervention. he is a man who believed himself heroic enough for the serum and the shield and he was wrong. his entire life has been marked by narratives of nationalism and american exceptionalism, and thus implicit white supremacy. these are things he (and his redemption arc) must grapple with.

when it comes down to it, walker fans, i’m not saying walker shouldn’t be your blorbo. i’m asking why you’re sanitizing the sociopolitical commentary his character served to give in tfatws in order to blorbify him.

[stuckydrewx]

If I have to see one more person saying ‘Why did Steve leave Bucky’ I’m gonna go insaneeeee 😭😭😭😭 BAD WRITING OMFG WE’VE BEEN THROUGH THIS SO MANY TIMES HE WOULD NEVER LEAVE HIS FRIENDS THATS THE WHOLE POINT IT WAS BAD FUCKIN WRITING

[ro994art]

James Buchanan "Bucky" Barnes did NOT valiantly serve in WWII, fight decades of torture and brainwashing to save his best friend's life, spend 2 years in Wakanda recovering from said brainwashing, fight against Thanos' army before AND after getting blipped, and help Captain America take down the Flag Smashers, directly saving the lives of several hostages in the process, only to be treated as a "spare" and "not a hero".

Give my man some respect.

[amarriageoftrueminds]

Hi. I'm somewhat confused about how the Winter Soldier's past is handled for Bucky in Thunderbolts. I mean, as part of his political campaign for Congress, his past had to be touched upon, and I think that's where Bucky's comment to Mel about if she claims to know him, she must know his history too comes from. And while I'm very glad that no one has rubbed Bucky's past in his face and openly criticized him for it (not even Val! that's saying a lot), I can't help but feel that Mel's “I know who you are” comments, and the other about whether "she's talking to Congressman Barnes or the Winter Soldier" feel like some sort of criticism. Because precisely, if like many others, Mel knows Bucky's past (besides the information that was given publicly by Bucky now being a public figure but also by the information OXE has on him) she should know that the Winter Soldier's name is not accompanied by positive connotations because of course it's tied to Hydra as their tool that was used to accomplish their purposes.

I've heard some people consider the fact that Bucky said that, unlike Mel, he didn't choose who he worked for, as groundbreaking, when in reality I think it's not much different than the way he has always acknowledged that he had no choice (the same thing he acknowledged as Steve in CW, and the same thing he said to Yori in TFATWS) but it's a line that is always accompanied by the unspoken words “but I did it”. Although I think compared to “Hydra was my people” from TFATWS that's a big improvement.

So while I think that, thankfully Bucky didn't face criticism and backlash for trying to make the Winter Soldier look like an innately bad/corrupt part of him, I think it's still handled with a certain wariness so to speak...

I would love to know your opinion. And sorry for the long ask xd

@buckydeservesthebest

Yh, I can't really speak on this much as I haven't seen the film, but characters continuing to refer to Bucky as the Winter Soldier is fucking annoying and inaccurate, and calling what he did 'working for' Hydra is still mischaracterizing it. (If that is a direct quote; but even if they used the phrase 'did for' or whatever, that's still missing the most crucial point.)

He didn't work for them, he was enslaved by them. They may as well be paraphrasing that Thor: Ragnarok line. 'Oh, he wasn't a slave, he was a 'prisoner with a 'job.'

Not much better than calling Hydra 'his people,' IMO!

And the Winter Soldier being framed as a part of Bucky, a corrupt part, is a stupid retcon from TFATWS' writers who want to victim-blame/villainize him and were too lazy to watch the movies. Absolute bollocks.

(That line should be 'Congressman Barnes or Bucky Barnes', because those are the only two fuckn options. Although CACW also has Steve saying similar stupid shit; you could already see them beginning to turn on Bucky, even then!)

I've said it elsewhere, but the Soldier is not a part of Bucky; it's the absence of Bucky. No personality, no memories, no capacity to have morals because of said lack. It's a blank void that can be ordered to act in anyway you want. (Which you'd think they'd pick up on in a film that has Bob in it, but oh well!)

The Soldier was an automaton with a good man trapped inside; the source of that metallic scream which made CATWS's soundtrack (why else would he be screaming, if this was always a part of him? wouldn't it be a metallic laugh, instead? if this was a part of him, why wouldn't he retain his personality? It's important not to mix comics and MCU here!)

It was not some Evil sub-personality that was always alive inside Bucky and just waiting to come out under the right stressors.

To use a fantasy analogy...

You could say that Bucky is not a werewolf; but the Winter Soldier is a zombie.

That's it. The Winter Soldier is the zombie of Bucky Barnes.

Imagine Hydra had Steve bitten by a zombie and turned into a zombie, Hydra made him do some zombie stuff, but then he got cured and turned back to normal.

Now, you might look at Zombie!Steve and say 'that's Steve,' but you wouldn't look at completely sane and normal Cured!Steve and say 'he's a Zombie.'

But we've got this situation where Bucky has been cured of his zombiedom and got his mind back and everything, to the point where he can even become an elected official (!)

And yet characters are still coming up to him like 'omg am am I talking to Bucky Barnes or ...The Zombie??' 👀

Bitch do you see him eating brains? Is he stumbling around and visibly rotting? No?? Then stfu then! 🤬

[valkyrieandstrangeridingaragorn]

🤨🤦‍♂️

🤨

Yep, it's utterly pathetic (x):

Elizabeth Olsen: "This time, they actually decided not to give us scripts," she continued with a laugh. "They gave me my pages, then they explained other things that are happening." When she actually sees the completed film, Olsen admitted, "I'll be so shocked and surprised." "I'll be like, 'Oh, I see!" she said. "That's what was happening to the world at that time."

It reminds me of what Brie Larson said about EG (x):

“I had no idea what I was shooting, what the movie was. I didn’t know if anybody else was in a scene with me. I didn’t know anything. And it’s not until you show up that you get your pages for the day. But you only get your part. So it was like a scene that was completely black redacted, and then just my one line.”

They did that to an Oscar-winning actress. Go figure.

They keep claiming it's about spoilers but there must be something else going on here. I have no idea what, but after the actors' strike maybe this behaviour will stop and Disney/Marvel will start treating them with respect? Or maybe I'm too idealistic...

[thatsolacegirl]

I don't know if someone has already written in this regard but wtf is that Dr Doom casting. Can't Marvel Studios divorce themselves with RDJ already?

I'm angry as they would probably make Dr Doom a title for Iron Man who went rogue & ended up as a villain. But my point is when are we going to leave the ghost of Tony Stark & move ahead.

We have a great villain in Doom as a standalone in comics, he's a politician, a scientist & a sorcerer. He has a history with the Fantastic Four. He's an interesting character who could've been the main villain of the MCU for the next decade. And we could've had anybody else. There are so many great actors out there who could play him. But Marvel literally said no we want hype so we will go with RDJ.

[catlady48]

The scrapped Avengers 5 script that was cowritten by Waldron was seemingly posted online and he was not done ruining Loki (at least the show version). Not sure if it's actually the real script or a hoax, but I still wanted to inform people about it, because it's bad. The entire thing is a mess. It's basically a copy of Infinity War as in the main villains (several versions of Kang) need the plotdevices to do catastrophic damage and basically everybody dies. Really, almost everybody gets killed off. He also involves almost every character that's currently alive in the MCU in this script, so they each barely get any screentime and no personality whatsoever. I haven't actually read the thing so I can't say how much time he had to ruin the characters, but it's Waldron so I'm assuming he still managed to do that somehow.

As for what he did to Loki specifically, apparently one of the Kangs drains him of his powers and presumably killed him (again). This is going to disappoint a lot of people who, despite the ways Loki as a character has been ruined by the show, still hoped that the ending would lead to them doing something cool with his new position and powers and/or would lead to him reuniting with Thor. Neither of this happens and I think even the show fans would be disappointed by them ruining the so-called "perfect ending to his character arc." Guess it was just a new way to kill him off and rub it in our faces after all. It's Infinity War all over again. He would've gotten ruined for nothing.

So glad this script got scrapped, even though I have zero faith in the Russo's considering they were the ones who thought of IW in the first place. I do think they will do somewhat better than Waldron since they can at least do action scenes. Even so, this is another warning not to get your hopes up that the MCU will not ruin Loki in some way or another in the upcoming movies.

[azural83]

It's such a shame that loki never made an appearance after the dark world:/

[therese-lokidottir]

Marvel announced that Loki's going to be in Doomsday. Idk how to feel about this. I mean, hasn't he gone through enough?

And why can't Marvel Studios let go of him? IMHO, he's basically a cash cow for Marvel Studios at this point.

I'm scared and tired rn.

It's not even Marvel Studios not letting Loki go, it's their constant attempt to try to get rid of him and/or try to say he sucks and then keep bringing him back after that.

I get into a whole rant about how much I hate the casting of Doctor Doom and how everything I hear about what they're going to do sounds awful but....

Like, at least when Tony Stark died it was because RDJ at the time legitimately wanted to move on to other things, and at least some significant amount of time and a lot of behind-the-scenes production changes had come to pass before the actor's return. Now it's still yet to be seen what version Loki this is going to be, but not a lot of time has passed between Loki grand exit to his return. What makes me ask, what was the point of getting rid of him.

The creators keep making this active choice for Loki to sacrifice himself over and over. Apparently, that wasn't going to happen in the series, but then the directors felt like it didn't feel right unless Loki had to sacrifice himself. The MCU is so desperate for that to be Loki's ending but then they never want to follow through or give Loki credit for what he has done.

[legalandnotease]

Its always struck me as a weird coincidence that so many people who Tony Stark didn't like or had a beef with were snapped. It seems almost diproportionate, how many of his enemies or rivals conveniently got dusted whilst those closest to him survived.

The notable examples: Hank Pym, along with his wife and daughter. Pym famously hated all Stark. What's also interesting about Pym is than given his knowledge of Quantam physics, he could have cracked time travel had he not been dusted mere days after creating the Quantam Tunnel and discovering time travel existed.

other notable examples: T. Ross (no great loss to the world), T'Challa and Shuri, Bucky Barnes, Wanda Maximoff, Sam Wilson, and Clint Barton's family. (Tony made no secret of how jealous he was of Clint in Age of Ultron.) Not forgetting Nick Fury who Tony never really got on with.

Then the thought kind of struck me: the Stones can be influenced by will power. We know this. Well, it turns out Tony was one the last people to touch the Gauntlet and the Stones before Thanos snapped in Infinity War. Steve also touched it in the Battle of Wakanda (in fact I think he canonically was the last person to do so...) but Tony was like second to last or a few down from that.

So here's my theory: at some point, probably in space when wallowing in resentment or bitterness Stark began to fantasize about who he'd get rid of if he had The Stones. He later touched the Gauntlet when trying to fight off Thanos.

Maybe the Stones sensed his thoughts so that when Thanos snapped mere hours (days?) later, the Stones picked some of those people be dusted. Yes, I think Tony influenced who was snapped, albeit unwittingly.

That's why its important that Bruce/Smart Hulk was the person who reversed the Snap- because he didn't have the baggage that Tony did. Tony could have somehow, with his lingering resentments against certain individuals have influenced the stones so that those people weren't bought back.

[buckydeservesthebest]

The lack of media literacy of some Sam Stans is frankly disturbing and should be made to look ridiculous.

To rely on the fanfiction in their minds to jump to the conclusion that Bucky and the others "work for Val", just because we DID NOT know how Bucky proceeded after the abrupt ending of the movie, and we STILL don't know how the New Avengers operate, because we only had a 2 minute post-credits scene whose sole purpose was to connect to the events of Avengers Doomsday, which basically gave NO information about them as a team. It's stupidly absurd.

Just because Bucky and the others decided to stay as a team (because literally the movie was about a group of people being forced to work together to confront a seemingly indefensible threat, and to connect and form a bond of mutual support in the process), and take the Avengers name is NOT proof that Val is somehow exerting her influence on them. Did these people even watch the same movie?? Do you really think that Bucky, Yelena and the others would listen to any of the lies of an evil manipulative person like Val after all that happened?? Tell me you didn't understand any of the plot without telling me...

Val does NOT own the Avengers name, so her publicly introducing them as the New Avengers does NOT mean shit. Bucky was already an Avenger since Infinity War or before. John literally said people considered him an Avengers since TFATWS.

Clint brought Wanda to the team, and Steve brought Sam to the team as well, there is no clause prohibiting members from inviting their own recruits to the team. So of course Bucky would have every right to decide to form his own team and invite his new teammates. Bucky has as much right to do this as Sam.

Literally people forget that Val has NO support, she is in the crosshairs of the authorities, she got rid of all her labs and all her research. Her only hope was to be able to control Sentry and of course it slipped through her fingers. Literally Bucky, Yelena and the others have her on a short leash, and they can literally take her down whenever they feel like it.

Also, exposing Val at the press conference wouldn't have worked as the only people who knew Bob was Sentry and The Void were Val, Mel and The Thunderbolts. If they'd presented Bob who didn't even remember what just happened people would have thought they were crazy or just lying to try and bring her down.

Even if Yelena and the others were to say publicly that Val hired them to get rid of any evidence that might convict her, it would be their word (that of former criminals) against hers. It could equally be interpreted that they are just lying because they have no evidence.

And another thing, when Bucky captured the Thunderbolts he was going to take them to testify with the impeachment committee. Their statement would only be useful against Valentina in this situation. For this information to be made public before it got to the Committee would have been counterproductive and would have most likely lost its credibility. So there is literally nothing to prevent Bucky from later arranging a deal in which Yelena, John and Ava could testify against Val in exchange for protection, a reduced sentence or even a government pardon.

People make a stupid fuss that the New Avengers might be somehow related to the government, when we don't even know if this is true or to what degree, but they conveniently forget that the OG Avengers were literally formed by SHIELD, a government organization. And their first team mission was ordered by SHIELD as well. In CA:TWS Steve and Natasha are still considered to be working for SHIELD, i.e. the Government. That only stopped because SHIELD was bought down. The Avengers only gained autonomy because the government organization controlling it ceased to exist.

The idea to form a new Avengers team in CA:BNW literally came from Ross, the same guy who wanted to have enhanced people under his control, the same guy who said Bruce's body was government property, and the same guy who ordered an extrajudicial execution order against Bucky, convicting him as guilty for the UN bombing without a fair trial which is literally a violation of his human rights. Ross is NO better a person than Val, and Sam was going to work with him just because he told him he "had changed", as if Ross wasn't known for lying, he already did it by telling the Avengers that they were "going to have a degree of freedom" if they signed the Accords, and this is NOT true.

Had the scandal of Ross transforming into the Red Hulk not happened on national TV, and thus not ended up in prison, Sam would have ended up working with him. The line between Sam "and when we disagree on how to manage a situation… what happens then?" and Ross "we figure it out together" literally already is a clear implication that they were going to work together.

I bet if BNW had ended up in a similar situation, with no word on whether Ross was arrested or not, and before that he had introduced Sam, Joaquin and maybe others as the New Avengers, people wouldn't jump to the conclusion that Sam is now working for him.

BECAUSE AGAIN, WORKING IN COOPERATION WITH THE GOVERNMENT DOES NOT MEAN BEING SUBJUGATED BY IT. AND THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED WITH THE OG AVENGERS, WHAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN WITH SAM'S FUTURE TEAM AND WHAT MAY HAPPEN WITH THE NEW AVENGERS.

Literally the only mention of the government with the New Avengers was Yelena's "we're the Avengers, the government said so," which couldn't be more ambiguous. Bucky literally has his trusted contacts within Congress, so without any problem they could have been the ones who could have offered them backing. Bucky literally already worked within the system and that did NOT stop him from stepping in and running things his own way. Of course he is going to seek that same freedom for his team.

In the same PC scene Yelena says that "there is a possible space threat and no one is informing them". If the New Avengers were really a government sanctioned organization, why isn't the government asking them to be the ones to investigate this? See the lack of sense? Bucky told Yelena to get a satellite image and send the jets when they are being kept out of the situation. That is literally clear proof that they are handling the situation their way and NOT asking for any permission.

Valentina is NOT the entire government, and NOT all members of the government are corrupt criminals. There's Rhodes who remained a colonel in the army even after he knew the system was infiltrated by Hydra, but that doesn't make him any less of a hero or any less of one.

Sam Stans think that Sam is supposedly so worried that now "the Avengers name is linked to a corrupt politician like Val", and that's why he waited 14 months to file a copyright lawsuit, when TB* could easily use a variant like The Revengers, The Avengerz, The New Avengers, East Coast Avengers, or any other that doesn't infringe copyright. Because avoiding that "The Avengers name is linked to Val" is the problem, not that a "bunch of super people are working for her" 🤡🤡

[nikkoliferous]

after reading the one hundred and one millionth inane quote about how Loki is such a pRiViLeGeD pRiNcE while Sylvie is just a poor baby who had no real childhood and had to learn to fend for herself from a young age, I feel the need to point out that even the ONE thing we know about Sylvie's past, the thing that's supposed to be her mAjOr tRaUmA and set her apart from him somehow, was literally stolen from Loki.

this is how Tom described Loki's experience post-suicide attempt back in the day while doing press for Avengers:

“I think he went, like with everything else, to a sort of… it was just like, the worst place imaginable. I think he went to all of the darkest recesses of the universe. I’m sure he had a brush with—several brushes with death. I think he ran into the shadiest characters you can find in the Nine Realms. I think he had to rely on his wits to protect himself. It was really, really, really unpleasant, I think. I don’t have any frame of reference for that, except for imagining what it might be like to be kidnapped by a terrorist or something and have to survive a very, very frightening and precarious existence. But whatever it was, it was important when Loki came back for The Avengers, that whatever compassion he had left was absolutely shriveled to a minimum because of the experience that he had. Harrowing, I think, and scarring for life—in a way that Thor and Odin and Frigga find very, very difficult to understand.” [source]

and now the show pretends that Loki teamed up with Thanos completely of his own will, even though Marvel had JUST confirmed that the sceptre was influencing him throughout Avengers, and they hand that traumatic backstory that was Loki's off to their precious OC.

[lunarspiral1127]

The more I hear about what's happening with Bucky, the more I wish he'd just stay in Wakanda and live in peace in his hut and with his goats.

Can someone explain to me why the hell his storyline has him becoming a congressman? Is it because of that one What If...? episode?! It just doesn't make sense to me. He doesn't even last long as congressmen anyway, cause apparently, he's leading the New Avengers? Which is a thing now and not even his own choice? And it's not even Sam Wilson's team, which his movie was supposed to set up since it was brought up many times? So what's even the point?!

*sigh* At this point, can this Multiverse Saga just end?