#mcu salt

[legalandnotease]

This. All this.

And then Tony Stans (or clueless normies who haven't actually seen a single MCU movie but just *have an opinion*) act like Mind Control is some crappy excuse Steve created exclusively for Bucky. When there is actually a really strong precedent for it in the MCU.

Like did they all forget about Avengers 1? Where Clint Barton was mind controlled by Loki and killed multiple people including Phil Coulson, and fired at the Avengers helicarrier? Yet 5 minutes later, everyone has totally forgotten about this and basically never brings it up again because it wasn't his fault.

How about when Tony fans themselves fall back on mind control as an excuse for Tony's actions in Age of Ultron? (Which they do *frequently*)? He wasn't actually mind-controlled but Wanda messing with his head becomes an acceptable excuse for him, but not for Bucky?

Tony having a scary vision counts but Bucky having his brain literally and graphically fried and being tortured to the point that he can't even remember *his own name* doesn't? Really?

As for Civil War: Tony doesn't have the moral high ground because he's literally chasing down the wrong guy. Even Ross is annoyed about the time and resources that were wasted chasing Bucky across Europe when the real perp was right under everyone's nose the whole time making fools of everyone. Tony fans can screech about Cap "defending a murderer" all they want but the fact still stands: Tony is literally hounding an innocent man at the behest of the government. Bucky is 100% *innocent* in the matter of the Vienna bombing legally, technically and morally.

...and Tony doesn't care. He only goes to Siberia in the end because Ross is annoyed with him for the whole debacle and there's a chance he can placate him by catching Zemo himself. Make no mistake: Tony didn't help Cap out of the goodness of his heart.

Some people are still out here waving the "Team Iron Man" flag like Tony didn’t completely fumble the moral high ground in Civil War. I mean, let’s break this down: Tony’s whole argument hinges on the Sokovia Accords, which, sure, sound reasonable on paper—regulate the Avengers, prevent collateral damage, blah blah blah. But the dude’s coming off creating Ultron, a walking apocalypse he built because he couldn’t stop tinkering with things he didn’t fully understand. And now he’s all, “We need oversight”? Bro, you are the reason we’re in this mess! The hypocrisy is thicker than his ego.

Meanwhile, Steve was over here fighting for personal accountability and freedom, refusing to let a corruptible system—like the UN, which let’s be real, isn’t exactly a beacon of flawless decision-making—control people with powers they didn’t ask for. Tony’s so blinded by his guilt over Sokovia that he’s willing to sign away everyone’s autonomy, including his own team’s, just to feel better about himself. And then he has the audacity to act betrayed when Cap won’t play along? Come on.

The airport fight? Tony brought freaking Spider-Man—a literal teenager—into a brawl with zero context, just to pad his side. Cap’s trying to stop a global catastrophe with Bucky and the Winter Soldier program, and Tony’s too busy throwing a tantrum to listen. And don’t even get me started on the final fight—yeah, Bucky killed Tony’s parents, but under mind control and brainwashing!!!.! Tony’s ready to murder him in cold blood, and Cap’s the bad guy for stopping him? Tony’s emotions don't equal basic justice.

“Team Iron Man” stans act like he’s this selfless genius, but the guy was wrong—morally, strategically, emotionally. Cap wasn’t perfect, but at least he stood for something bigger than his own baggage. Tony just wanted a leash put on everyone else because he couldn’t handle his own. The damn MCU has said multiple times itself that Tony was in the wrong

[eddiesheep]

I love the theory that the elderly Steve at the end of Endgame was a skrull. Why? Because it would literally fix EVERITHING revolving Steve's ending, as well as major plot inconsistencies.

⤷ How come Steve was able to just... wait out at the same park that his past-self left for the past when it was clearly established that when you go back in time to change something, a new branch is created in the timeline, creating a completely new reality, therefore it would be impossible for old Steve to just wait at the same park to meet up with Sam and bucky? (it was literally the explanation they gave as to why they couldn't just go back in time and kill baby-Thanos lmao)

Because that wasn't the real Steve Rogers, it was a skrull pretending to be him.

⤷ Why would Steve ever want to go back to the past to live the rest of his life with a woman he barely knew when it was already established by Steve him-fucking-self that he was ready to move on?

Because he wouldn't. That wasn't the real Steve Rogers, it was a skrull pretending to be him!

⤷ How could Steve ever be capable of living his cute little domestic life, when logically, the past version of Bucky would still be out there at the same time as him? Being abused, brainwashed and tortured into becoming a cold-killing machine for HYDRA??

Because he couldn't. That wasn't the real Steve Rogers!

⤷ In what world would Steve ever be physically capable of, not only forgiving, but also living the rest of his life with Peggy Carter?? Peggy-fucking-Carter??? You know, the woman who knowingly hired and worked with NAZIS??

None! That wasn't the real Steve Rogers!

⤷ How come Steve would ever have the balls to leave Bucky- no! Not just any Bucky- THE James Buchanan Barnes, to fed for himself in a whole new world he has not yet had time to understand as well as Steve did, when he PROMISED him that it would always be them against the world? Till' the end of the fucking line?

Because he would never! That wasn't the real Steve Rogers!

See what I mean? That could transition into to such an interesting conflict too! Maybe (to tie in with a better version of Secret Invasion idk) it was part of the skrulls' plot! To take Captain America off the picture, and manipulate others into believing that Steve just left them out of his own volition, as a way to discourage anyone from looking for him. To make taking over the earth easier!

Gosh! The concept of skrulls has got to be one of the most interesting, most scary concepts the MCU has ever introduced, losing only to The Red Room.

And yet, just like The Red Room, the MCU fucked it all up. I hate it.

[legalandnotease]

You know what annoys me most about Endgame (well a lot of things do), but most of all?

The way that it completely ignores what Natasha did. How crucial her actions were to the ultimate victory. Instead they tried to make Endgame into Iron Man 4, and pretend Tony saved everyone singlehandedly. Yet the truth is the plan to reverse the snap would *never have worked* without Natasha's sacrifice.

They had to have all of the stones to snap everybody back- and they also had to have all the Stones to snap Thanos away. Even one missing, and not only would the Snapped have stayed dead, but Thanos would have won a second time.

In truth, it was Natasha who saved the universe and Natasha who ensured ultimate victory against Thanos. Anybody could have snapped Thanos away (it didn't have to be Tony), but few could have paid the ultimate price for the Soul Stone.

In fact: let's talk about the Soul Stone. It was the most difficult and costly of all the Stones to obtain. I read that some theories that the souls of the Snapped were contained in the Stone, and so it was the key to bringing everyne back.

Meaning that Stone was also the one which allowed Thanos and his army to be Snapped away.

So again, it all comes back to Natasha, and her choice on Vormir.

Yet she didn't even get a funeral. The movie just completely ignores her to give Tony all the credit and all the fuss when he actually did very little.

And had to be emotionally blackmailed and tricked to do even that. Natasha was willing every step of the way.

[stuckydrewx]

If I have to see one more person saying ‘Why did Steve leave Bucky’ I’m gonna go insaneeeee 😭😭😭😭 BAD WRITING OMFG WE’VE BEEN THROUGH THIS SO MANY TIMES HE WOULD NEVER LEAVE HIS FRIENDS THATS THE WHOLE POINT IT WAS BAD FUCKIN WRITING

[ro994art]

James Buchanan "Bucky" Barnes did NOT valiantly serve in WWII, fight decades of torture and brainwashing to save his best friend's life, spend 2 years in Wakanda recovering from said brainwashing, fight against Thanos' army before AND after getting blipped, and help Captain America take down the Flag Smashers, directly saving the lives of several hostages in the process, only to be treated as a "spare" and "not a hero".

Give my man some respect.

[valkyrieandstrangeridingaragorn]

🤨🤦‍♂️

🤨

Yep, it's utterly pathetic (x):

Elizabeth Olsen: "This time, they actually decided not to give us scripts," she continued with a laugh. "They gave me my pages, then they explained other things that are happening." When she actually sees the completed film, Olsen admitted, "I'll be so shocked and surprised." "I'll be like, 'Oh, I see!" she said. "That's what was happening to the world at that time."

It reminds me of what Brie Larson said about EG (x):

“I had no idea what I was shooting, what the movie was. I didn’t know if anybody else was in a scene with me. I didn’t know anything. And it’s not until you show up that you get your pages for the day. But you only get your part. So it was like a scene that was completely black redacted, and then just my one line.”

They did that to an Oscar-winning actress. Go figure.

They keep claiming it's about spoilers but there must be something else going on here. I have no idea what, but after the actors' strike maybe this behaviour will stop and Disney/Marvel will start treating them with respect? Or maybe I'm too idealistic...

[thatsolacegirl]

I don't know if someone has already written in this regard but wtf is that Dr Doom casting. Can't Marvel Studios divorce themselves with RDJ already?

I'm angry as they would probably make Dr Doom a title for Iron Man who went rogue & ended up as a villain. But my point is when are we going to leave the ghost of Tony Stark & move ahead.

We have a great villain in Doom as a standalone in comics, he's a politician, a scientist & a sorcerer. He has a history with the Fantastic Four. He's an interesting character who could've been the main villain of the MCU for the next decade. And we could've had anybody else. There are so many great actors out there who could play him. But Marvel literally said no we want hype so we will go with RDJ.

[catlady48]

The scrapped Avengers 5 script that was cowritten by Waldron was seemingly posted online and he was not done ruining Loki (at least the show version). Not sure if it's actually the real script or a hoax, but I still wanted to inform people about it, because it's bad. The entire thing is a mess. It's basically a copy of Infinity War as in the main villains (several versions of Kang) need the plotdevices to do catastrophic damage and basically everybody dies. Really, almost everybody gets killed off. He also involves almost every character that's currently alive in the MCU in this script, so they each barely get any screentime and no personality whatsoever. I haven't actually read the thing so I can't say how much time he had to ruin the characters, but it's Waldron so I'm assuming he still managed to do that somehow.

As for what he did to Loki specifically, apparently one of the Kangs drains him of his powers and presumably killed him (again). This is going to disappoint a lot of people who, despite the ways Loki as a character has been ruined by the show, still hoped that the ending would lead to them doing something cool with his new position and powers and/or would lead to him reuniting with Thor. Neither of this happens and I think even the show fans would be disappointed by them ruining the so-called "perfect ending to his character arc." Guess it was just a new way to kill him off and rub it in our faces after all. It's Infinity War all over again. He would've gotten ruined for nothing.

So glad this script got scrapped, even though I have zero faith in the Russo's considering they were the ones who thought of IW in the first place. I do think they will do somewhat better than Waldron since they can at least do action scenes. Even so, this is another warning not to get your hopes up that the MCU will not ruin Loki in some way or another in the upcoming movies.

[azural83]

It's such a shame that loki never made an appearance after the dark world:/

[therese-lokidottir]

Marvel announced that Loki's going to be in Doomsday. Idk how to feel about this. I mean, hasn't he gone through enough?

And why can't Marvel Studios let go of him? IMHO, he's basically a cash cow for Marvel Studios at this point.

I'm scared and tired rn.

It's not even Marvel Studios not letting Loki go, it's their constant attempt to try to get rid of him and/or try to say he sucks and then keep bringing him back after that.

I get into a whole rant about how much I hate the casting of Doctor Doom and how everything I hear about what they're going to do sounds awful but....

Like, at least when Tony Stark died it was because RDJ at the time legitimately wanted to move on to other things, and at least some significant amount of time and a lot of behind-the-scenes production changes had come to pass before the actor's return. Now it's still yet to be seen what version Loki this is going to be, but not a lot of time has passed between Loki grand exit to his return. What makes me ask, what was the point of getting rid of him.

The creators keep making this active choice for Loki to sacrifice himself over and over. Apparently, that wasn't going to happen in the series, but then the directors felt like it didn't feel right unless Loki had to sacrifice himself. The MCU is so desperate for that to be Loki's ending but then they never want to follow through or give Loki credit for what he has done.

[nikkoliferous]

after reading the one hundred and one millionth inane quote about how Loki is such a pRiViLeGeD pRiNcE while Sylvie is just a poor baby who had no real childhood and had to learn to fend for herself from a young age, I feel the need to point out that even the ONE thing we know about Sylvie's past, the thing that's supposed to be her mAjOr tRaUmA and set her apart from him somehow, was literally stolen from Loki.

this is how Tom described Loki's experience post-suicide attempt back in the day while doing press for Avengers:

“I think he went, like with everything else, to a sort of… it was just like, the worst place imaginable. I think he went to all of the darkest recesses of the universe. I’m sure he had a brush with—several brushes with death. I think he ran into the shadiest characters you can find in the Nine Realms. I think he had to rely on his wits to protect himself. It was really, really, really unpleasant, I think. I don’t have any frame of reference for that, except for imagining what it might be like to be kidnapped by a terrorist or something and have to survive a very, very frightening and precarious existence. But whatever it was, it was important when Loki came back for The Avengers, that whatever compassion he had left was absolutely shriveled to a minimum because of the experience that he had. Harrowing, I think, and scarring for life—in a way that Thor and Odin and Frigga find very, very difficult to understand.” [source]

and now the show pretends that Loki teamed up with Thanos completely of his own will, even though Marvel had JUST confirmed that the sceptre was influencing him throughout Avengers, and they hand that traumatic backstory that was Loki's off to their precious OC.

[breckstonevailskier]

Okay, not a fan

As I see it, a lot of good story ideas. But they planned to fridge Foggy and basically act like Karen didn't exist. And that is not something I can forgive.

(That last bit is meant to be said in my best Wilson Fisk voice.)

[legalandnotease]

Me: The whole "making amends" idea in The Falcon and the Winter Soldier is incredibly stupid and smacks of victim-blaming because Bucky should not be forced to make amends for things he was *made* to do against his will.

Its literally like telling a SA victim to apologize to all the other people their attacker also hurt.

Also, don't tell trauma survivors to *get their shit togeher* its extremely insentistive and misinformed. Mentally ill people aren't just being annoying or mean on purpose.

Sam Stans and people in wider fandom:

*That's not victim blaming! Bucky was never a victim, it was doing it all willingly anyway and that's why Sam said to make amends!

Also Sam has PTSD too. He is the only person in history who ever suffered discrimination, so Bucky trauma doesn't count and if you keep mentioning it you are a big bad racist!!

Me: OK, that's messed up. Don't dismiss and invalidate people's trauma.

Also know its not just black people who are subject to discrimination? Lots of people suffer discrimination, including disabled people and mentally ill people and this applied historically as well.

Furthermore, having been subjected to racism doesn't give Sam or anybody else a free pass to mistreat others. What's wrong with just treating those around you with basic decency, sympathy and compassion?

That includes Bucky, who is also disabled BTW.

Sam fans and others in general fandom:

"Bucky is not disabled! I already told you HE IS NOT A VICTIM he never was! He is not marginalized! Stop babying him! He's an adult and he CHOSE to do all the things he did as the Winter Soldier!"

He's just being mean to Sam on purpose and being selfish. Sam doesn't have to be nice to him! That's so tone deaf and its racist!"

Seriously poeple: if Bucky had bought up how the disability jokes and blaming him for things that caused his PTSD made him uncomfortable IRL Sam would have been receptive and understood because he's actually a decent human who knows its wrong to mock people for things they can't help. Or blame them for things that they didn't choose.

It is a shame that the writers of FAtWS and a good number of Sam Stans can't seem to grasp this.

[lunarspiral1127]

Y'know, it's one thing to announce your cast of an upcoming movie, but it's also how you do it.

In the case of Avengers: Doomsday, the Marvel channel on YouTube had a livestream that's over 5 hours long to announce the cast by showing their chairs every 10 or 15 minutes.....oh and Robert Downey Jr. shows up at the end.....yeah, that's pretty much it.

[captainwidowspring]

An excerpt from my Captain America music paper, for I just made a seriously disgusting discovery:

"The other appearance of the breaking-up-of-the-Avengers theme is during the Siberia fight, where it is played twice. The first time it plays is when Friday tells Tony, “You can’t beat [Steve] hand to hand,” and it continues as Tony tells Friday to analyze his fight pattern and she does it, up until Friday says, “Countermeasures ready,” and Tony grabs Steve’s shield. The second time it plays is shortly after Steve disables Tony’s suit, and shortly before Steve, exhausted and injured, slides off Tony’s suit and onto the ground; this plays until Steve helps Bucky off the ground and starts to walk away with him. Now, as the previous use of the Avengers-breakup theme helps show that Civil War was more of an Avengers movie than a Cap movie, this use actually happens to show how the film is more of an Iron Man movie than either of those other two. For considering that the theme was obviously meant to have the most impact after Steve broke the arc reactor, the fact that it first shows up a little before then is quite notable: and when exactly it shows up is very revealing. It first appears when Tony does not exactly have the upper hand (though Steve is doing no damage despite pummeling Tony’s suit), but then it stops when Friday allows Tony to get the upper hand over Steve and seriously hurt him, and then it resumes again when Steve is able to thwart Tony and disable his suit.

Such use of the music that symbolizes the Avengers team splintering seems to be the movie implying that if Tony had won the fight, whatever fracture the Avengers were experiencing would be less severe, but it is solidified now that Steve won the fight. Now, this is very much not true, as the entire Siberia fight was literally Tony trying to kill Bucky because he was upset, while Bucky tried to avoid this and Steve defended Bucky: and while Tony did some really despicable things throughout the movie, successfully killing Bucky and/or Steve while he was having a temper tantrum is something he would never be able to come back from. But considering the lengths the movie went to to try to make it seem like Tony was justified in doing this and not acting monstrously, it is not surprising that these fraudulent efforts extended to the music. And curiously, the Avengers-breakup theme does not play when Tony provokes Steve into dropping the shield, even though that is much more symbolic of the Avengers breaking up than Steve preventing Tony from killing him and Bucky. But that, too, might have painted Tony in a bad light, and the movie avoided such a thing at all costs. Civil War is seriously messed up."

Truly, the more one examines this mockery of a Captain America film, the more it becomes clear just how thoroughly rotten this movie is, and how it is most definitely not Cap 3.

[hersheysmcboom]

Mcu writers: you ingrates, YOU DON’T EVEN KNOW TALENT!

Fans: NO TALENT!! NO TALENT!!