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bumblebeesinthetrees · 11 days ago

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Is Forced Conformity what caused our characters to (thematically) lose at the end of season 4?

hello :) I have not written my own post in byler tumblr yet, I think. I tend to lurk usually. recently, I rewatched the last episode of s4 since my mum wanted to finish her first watch of it (it has taken a while!). I enjoyed getting to rewatch this episode because I’ve been feeling a bit fixated on my hopes for s5 for the past 2 weeks (mostly byler heh), to a point which has stressed me out quite a bit. I could focus on what I love about Stranger Things. on the other hand, it was also kind of depressing and frustrating. part of my experience was hearing and thinking about how Mileven shippers love the love monologue, which wasn't the most fun. it gives me anxiety sometimes just how dramatic that scene feels.

the purpose of this post isn't as much to discuss that scene in too much detail and how it relates to the ongoing themes of conformity in Stranger Things. some people here have been discussing this aspect for a while, which I've enjoyed reading a lot. for example, if anyone wants to check them out:

ifistayitwillbedouble post

willthewiz post

therainscene has posted a couple about the forced conformity theme with Byler across the whole series, especially how it has influenced Mike's queercoding.

instead, I'd like to think a bit about the broad theme of forced conformity, talked about explicitly by Eddie at the start of s4, and see how the ending of s4 could perhaps be interpreted as the result of trying to defeat Vecna while most characters are still accepting or are not actively rebelling against some form of the status quo, perhaps as part of their personal efforts to defeat Vecna.

(this post is kind of long and wordy)

I'm curious because some of the way s4 was ending, before the twist of Vecna still being alive, felt like it could have been heading for an epilogue. Mike and Eleven had seemingly repaired their relationship issues (kind of); Joyce and Hopper were home and the house was being cleaned and rebuilt; Vecna was dead so they could focus on recovery, their main mission was over. but then, we were told by Will that Vecna is actually not dead. the characters have not gone far enough in their attempts to kill Vecna. they need to make sure to kill him, not just leave him hurt and in hiding, as he will kill everyone.

Eleven, Dustin, Lucas, and Hopper as possible leading examples

as gayofthefae has recently said a couple of times, the ending of s5 should be distinct from the ending of s4, at least regarding the characters' stories/progression. also, s4's original storyline was split into s4 and s5. it does not make sense for (all) the characters' progression/endings to already be done/reached so soon before the final battle.

my first key point is how each character who was more directly involved in the final fight, for a longer proportion of the time, had significantly progressed or perhaps even completed a personal arc that seemingly involved rejecting conformity in some way.

there was an article being mentioned in this part of Tumblr, in the past couple of weeks or so, I think, which I thought included the Duffers specifically saying that certain characters' arcs were already done as of s4. upon reading back through, it actually says the arcs "are done here", "here" seeming to refer to the original TV series. the characters explicitly named are Eleven, Dustin, Lucas, and Hopper. (it's possible that the Duffers also include other characters in this list, but it's nice to wonder whether Mike and Will might have their own spin-off one day)

nevertheless, thinking about these 4 characters in particular does feel like it shows some patterns.

Eleven

Eleven was perhaps the most directly involved in the fight, at least on a mental level. after initially suffering a lot from forced conformity in California at the start of s4, she had gone through an arc of discovering for herself that she's not a monster, that she is worthy of love and can be independent of others' goals for her. however, as Mike noted, she has still lost, for the first time. maybe there is still a form of forced conformity affecting her (maybe it's her continued relationship with Mike). Matthew Modine has reportedly also said that he'd be interested to see Eleven use the power of love in s5, which implies she hasn't done it yet. so El might be most of the way through her personal arc regarding forced conformity already, with a bit further to go.

Dustin

Dustin fought with Eddie against the demobats, in part as a distraction, and due to Eddie's final stand, adopts Eddie's position as defender or guide of the outcasts, the little sheep. he is already quite a noncomformist, I think, being an atheist(?) nerd and having a Mormon genius girlfriend. I think he's rarely been shown to submit to the forced conformity that attempts to subjugate him, so in this respect it makes sense for him to take on this role. it's been pointed out though that Dustin might be a bit normative, so maybe part of his arc next season will be developing his understanding of who is vulnerable to forced conformity and how he can protect them?

Lucas

Lucas had to literally fight against a leading agent of forced conformity in s4, Jason, who he also literally had idealised. it was framed as him coming to terms with accepting his status as an outsider, as non-popular, so he could retain his relationships, values, and integrity. he became disenchanted with it, despite understanding all too well the benefits/privileges of (apparent) safety it lends those who submit to it or are part of it. Jason's interference in great part led to Max's death and Vecna's victory, as Lucas became unable to intervene when the walkman was destroyed. it will be nice to see how Lucas's perspective and behaviour in relation to conformity and popularity have changed next season.

Hopper

Hopper killed a demogorgon with a sword, which was cool. he and Murray (who is another proud, but also kind of hidden? nonconformist) caused Vecna enough pain to enable other characters to rejoin the fight. perhaps like Dustin he is and will be a defender against forced conformity. I'm not sure what Hopper's continued arc could be in s5, at least regarding conformity; I suppose he might be hiding from the government/military with Eleven, but I'm not sure how this fits with the theme of nonconformity vs forced conformity. sometimes in the series, it feels like working with the government or military is a way of submitting to conformity. at first I was going to say that he's long been nonconformist, but now I've remembered his more conformist behaviour in s3 when he was trying to date Joyce, at first with little success. when he was more himself, he succeeded. he used to be the police chief, but now he's working entirely out of the law, rather than using his position within it to his advantage. interesting. I'm also curious how the whole plotline with Russia might fit into this theme of forced conformity or not.

so. there appear to be people who can act as defenders against forced conformity for other characters. there are also characters who struggle with the decision of whether to submit to forced conformity (e.g., Eleven with Bremer, Lucas with Jason), even if it would seemingly benefit them or make them feel safe. characters can inhabit both roles, but it seems like the less you are submitting to forced conformity, the more you can defend others from it?

Applying this Pattern to Other Main Characters

offers herself as bait, tries to fight back with smartness (by hiding 👀 Will) but minimal success, and dies, only momentarily thanks to El.

how does this apply to the other characters in the fight? how involved or not are they? what might this then suggest about their current experiences with respect to forced conformity and how much more they might need to do to resist it? let's try going in a rough order of proximity to the fight and how much is actively done versus passively or supportively done. the active vs passive/supportive distinction here obviously assumes that the Duffers intend for each of the main characters to get to confront Vecna directly at some point, but I'm curious to see where it leads.

Max

is typically a somewhat proud nonconformist in previous seasons, at least around friends. acted as a primary influence in Eleven's nonconformity, defending it.

has become a victim this season. has struggled with forced conformity primarily due to Billy, and later his continued influence on her after he died.

distanced herself from others at first in s4, but was less vulnerable when she had support and music. could her use of herself as bait, and insistence on this to save others, be an expression of submission to conformity that she was unable to avert in time?

is currently in a coma and her mind has not been found. curious how finding her will contribute to the final battle in s5, and how she might progress during this plotline.

Eddie

fought demobats with Dustin, at least in part as a distraction at first, then alone maybe in part as an effort to save Dustin and/or the others.

the season's personification of rejecting forced conformity, interestingly died as part of this "final" battle with Vecna.

this might have depressing implications for the timeskip if it is taken to imply further submission by main characters to conformity during the interim? or interesting ones - where did the characters get to in the finale? are their apparent developments, actually regressions?

perhaps his death suggests that in some way his hardline nonconformity made him very vulnerable to the dangers of forced conformity - he needed protecting too?

or actually, he was willing to die a nonconformist; he stopped hiding and running away from the pursuit of forced conformity (the town), and decided to protect others like him. unfortunately, this cost him his life - but yeah, there are lots of possible implications here. hopefully the intended takeaway is not that people should have to sacrifice themselves to defend against forced conformity (seems less likely intention now that I've written it that way), or that it is simply the sad reality?

maybe the forced conformity view is that anyone should have to die at all to succeed against it or escape it? (see gayofthefae post) fun meta if so

Nancy, Steve and Robin

not able to fight for large part of the battle, disabled by Vecna's vines during this time - Robin first, then Steve, then Nancy; however, later are freed by Hopper.

Nancy

Nancy delivers the "killing" blows to Vecna's physical form. she was subjected to visions of Hawkins' destruction and Vecna's backstory before the battle.

Nancy is generally quite nonconformist in recent seasons but is building romantic tension with Steve again, and this relationship was indicated by Jonathan in s1 as being part of a conformist pattern that masquerades as rebellion. will this be maintained?

when Jonathan returns, they each pretend that their relationship is fine and do not address their issues with each other, or at least do not push. perhaps this suggests that they are either suffering from forced conformity by staying in the relationship, or external influences of forced conformity are threatening their relationship, maybe such as Steve. either way, this issue will likely be a big part of their arcs in s5.

it has been debated whether Nancy might die in s5.

Steve

somewhat fits the conformist camp - he had to work on himself to not be part of its enforcement, and later became somewhat of a defender for those who might be victimised by forced conformity, such as Robin and Dustin.

I'm not sure how much of an avid nonconformist he is personally, though? does he proudly nonconform in some ways? perhaps, in some respects, he is learning about rejecting conformity from Robin and Dustin.

curious how his apparently persistent love for Nancy might be considered in the lens of conformity, as well as his dream of going around the world with 6 kids. suppose a big determiner in this might be which relationship for Nancy is ultimately found to be a submission to conformity. could it be both of them?

Robin

is subjected to forced conformity and struggles with how to pursue her romantic interest in Vickie (or other women) for most of the season. she is resistant to believing that Vickie could be interested in her, in return, similar to Will's beliefs.

otherwise is quite a nonconformist, is openly quirky. is out to Steve and openly talks about her struggles with Steve. not yet out to anyone else though.

Erica

progression of this in s5 is likely as Vickie is now single and Robin feels more open to pursuing her.

perhaps, like Eddie attempted to nurture nonconformity for the Hellfire Club, Robin will do the same for Will (and Mike?).

is less actively in the fight until she is chased by Chance(?) and kicks him (yay)

supports Lucas with communication during the fight, mostly?

perhaps has increasingly opened up over the seasons to being a nonconformist? but she was always presented as confident. may have always been nonconformist but maybe not as much part of a team like this, before?

is she more of a defender against forced conformity or does she struggle with it herself? how actively does she resist conformity?

interested to see how she progresses in s5.

Joyce

if I remember right, originally was planned to provide support for Hopper and Murray by trapping the demogorgons, but actually ended up attacking one to protect Hopper, before being placed in a safe area in the pit at the prison, by Hopper; was in large part responsible for Hopper's freedom, though?

has been pretty openly nonconformist for most if not all of the series, cared more about her kids than what other people thought of her. likely a defender against forced conformity like Hopper, but perhaps has been subject to it herself?

was her arc with forced conformity expressed via how she felt about living in Hawkins? how she could best protect herself and her kids from what they were being subjected to? ooooo

maybe her arc with forced conformity was also explored via her romantic relationships, like Nancy's, Mike's and Karen's? Lonnie, then Bob, then Hopper

will (all of) the Byers return to Hawkins at the end of s5? I'd assume so

And of course, the people who didn't directly fight anyone and only supported Eleven in her mental fight with Vecna: Will, Mike, Jonathan (and Argyle)

I won't touch upon Argyle since unfortunately his actor seems to not be part of s5? and i'm not immediately sure how much of an arc with forced conformity can be described for him this season. in some ways he might already be a nonconformist?

Jonathan

didn't contribute much to this fight, aside from assisting in the setup, was effectively passive.

could be compared to his passive behaviour in his relationship with Nancy. he was struggling at the start of the season because he had decided to stay in California to support his family, instead of going to university with Nancy, but he hadn't told her yet nor communicated much at all. his inactivity was killing the relationship.

again perhaps it could be debated whether the forced conformity is staying in the relationship, or is letting it fail and prioritising his role in his family. maybe it's commenting a bit on themes of conformity related to class, that he believes he shouldn't pursue his own life (e.g., go to university) because of his family's struggles. this would suggest that in order to succeed against Vecna in s5, he needs to break free of what he feels is wrongly expected of him.

related to this, wonder whether the university tension will be touched upon in s5, since the timeskip is 1.5 years - would guess so. will Nancy find out that Jonathan lied about the admissions letter? did this happen during the timeskip? aaaaa, Wheelers and the Byers who lie to them out of love/obligation/self-deprecation - but interestingly, Jonathan's lie seems currently motivated to keep their relationship for now, maybe, while Will's was to "rip off the bandaid" sooner rather than later?

thewisewill80sbyers has said he might die in s5 as a tragic death, submitting to his obligation to his family at the expense of his future. maybe, but I hope that since he and Nancy are yet to discuss and settle the issue that this maybe isn't true? (i prefer jancy though so am likely biased)

also, interesting that jancy weren't shown in new clips for the date announcement considering their presence in the final shot of s4, with whom some of us presume are the endgame couples? seems they're in a team with Steve and Dustin for at least some of s5, based on behind-the-scenes info?

Will

supports Mike in his declaration of love to Eleven, sacrificing his own feelings as part of this. other than that is passive except maybe in giving El suggestions on how to look for Max 👀.

is obviously struggling deeply with forced conformity, as a gay teen who is yet to explicitly come out to anyone, and may have barely come to terms with it. has "accepted" that he will never be in a romantic relationship with Mike; has also previously said that he will "never fall in love".

is likely the central character of s5, given the date announcement and what the Duffers and Noah have already said about his arc. in some way will resist forced conformity, perhaps as part of his arc and becoming more directly involved in the fight against Vecna again.

I'm sure most people reading this guess what I hope this means for byler (please endgame). also hope it means that his role in the fight will be more active in some way than acting as a spy on Vecna, which requires him more to hide than to fight - maybe this is where the possible possession threat comes in, if he needs to fight mentally against Vecna?

Mike

he acts as "the heart" for Eleven to renew her motivation/strength in the fight against Vecna. other than that is passive.

could be interpreted as literally submitting to forced conformity, in that his only role in the fight, his only available way to influence the battle at the time, is to be Eleven's romantic interest. it makes sense if we follow the byler interpretation that he is not actually in love with Eleven, and is in some way repressing his feelings for Will, since in this scenario as well he believes his only safe/"normal" option is to be romantically involved with Eleven.

this moment is presented very dramatically, one of the last main beats of the fight, but of course we now know that Eleven nor the Nancy, Steve and Robin team managed to defeat Vecna in the end. this is despite Will identifying in Mike that a great part of his contribution against their enemies is the inspiration and support he can provide for others. without the heart, we all fall apart. maybe the party failed in part because Mike is failing somehow, as the heart, to resist conformity himself.

this is also in line with what Finn has said about Mike's arc in s4, apparently trying to be a normal teenager despite his quite proudly nonconformist personality while in Hawkins before going to California.

maybe Mike needs to be more actively involved in the fight in s5, like he needs to do more to resist forced conformity. the date announcement clip suggests protector Mike is in greater prominence in s5. so am curious to see how Mike resists forced conformity further in s5. hopefully at least part of this is what many of us assume it will be (byler endgame).

some of my thoughts here don't feel as developed as they could be. but the overall point I wanted to try to make was that s4 ended the way it did because most of our characters have not yet defeated the influences of forced conformity in their personal lives. they tried to defeat Vecna while still in some way remaining in submission to conformity. it feels pretty obvious with characters who were most actively involved in the final battle, but I believe that it's been shown to also apply well with characters who were less involved, or the pattern suggests further evidence that the characters that were the least directly involved in the fight have more they need to do in their personal arcs, which can have interesting implications. if byler endgame is right, there could be a strong positive correlation between involvement in resisting Vecna and resisting conformity. which just makes sense. there's also the whole aspect of defenders of other nonconformists, and how vulnerable some characters are to danger if they are more or less conformist, and what other factors might affect this vulnerability.

maybe I'll focus on some of these points in more detail another time, but I'd be really interested and happy to hear what people think about any of this :) I'm glad I let my brain whir on this, it's been fun.

#byler #byler endgame #stranger things #stranger things s5 #st5 speculation #stranger things s4 #jumpscare for anyone following me who might not have known i'm a fan of ST - hi!#stranger things analysis

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