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[catofoldstones]

OHMYGOD YES ARIANNE AND THE ENTIRE DORNE PLOT!!!!! MY GOD THE BLOOD ORANGES, THE SAND SNAKES, REVENGE HOW COULD I FORGET 😭

GRRM did AFFC so good actually. Flipped the male-centric series on its head with majorly female PoVs and then started the book with our resident paranoiapilled Cersei Lannister convinced that her killer is hiding in the walls of the Red Keep. He introduced the first true knight of the series, keeping an oath to a dead woman. No chance, no choice. Asha fighting centuries of patriarchy to fight for her throne. “Balon let her believe she was a man.” “Your father made the same mistake with you.” Sansa and the whole Vale arc? Arya’s Cat of the Canals arc?? Hello? We have been served female characters on a platter here and I for one am eating. it. up. He truly snapped here tbh.

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Show Dany’s burning of KL has always been seen as a Mad Queen argument but I always thought of it as entitlement and rage emanating from that entitlement. The people of Westeros were supposed to welcome her and her armies, they were supposed to open their arms and open their forts up to the rightful ruler of their kingdom, they were supposed to vouch for her not be resistant to her rightful conquest, not attack her, provide her with what was hers all along, overthrow the usurpers in her name before she even came along. They were supposed to be on her side and they weren’t. They betrayed her. So she burned them and she took what was hers, with fire and blood. It wasn’t some of unreasoned madness but I feel wrongfully reasoned clarity.

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The thing about arya fans' argument that arya comes before sansa in the line of succession because robb disinherited her because of her forced marriage is the underlying misogyny and victim blaming of it, and their assumption that grrm thinks the same. We don't have jon [you know the actual person robb chose over sansa, and i think its time we start talking that the will specifically was about sansa and jon and that shit means something narratively] asserting that winterfell belongs to sansa despite everything and him not falling to the bait of stannis calling her a lannister, to just assume that according to grrm what robb did was OK. If people actually think grrm wants to show robb was right and girls truly are not important and thus his disinheritance of his sister's rights will be upheld, then they need their heads checked. Its not like he showed us that jaehaerys's sexism was what led to death of the dragons and downfall of targaryens even though grrm considers him a good ruler. Ultimately, catelyn will be validated when brienne saves either sansa or arya with oathkeeper and sansa will become lady of winterfell/qitn DESPITE robb's will. He [and arya fans] can suck it.

Hi soulmate anon,

Before we start, I have to let you know that one our previous posts was screenshotted and circulated in the arya stans circles because “we’re spreading our agenda on a neutral public platform” or something along those lines. Idk if you’ve seen that or not but I had to let you know before we go off kicking another hornet’s nest lol.

Anyway, that out of the way, to the Arya stans who are so hellbent upon removing Sansa from the Stark succession, Robb declared Jon as his heir, pushing Sansa further down the line (not disinheriting her jesus fuck) because through her Tyrion may lay claim to Winterfell, landing it in the hands of the Lannisters, exactly what Robb and Cat are trying to prevent. Robb didn’t “disinherit” Arya because he thought she was dead. Hope that helps.

WAIT!

the will being specifically about Jon and Sansa and that we need to start thinking about that narratively

SCREAM

Okay, I have now moved on (I have not). Though please feel free to talk about this more, I wanna know more. Guess I’ll now have to add jonsa tag to this answer hehe :P

I mean Robb did come from a place of “authority over the female members of his family” here with the will and that’s exactly the kind of thing we have to side eye. Taking it at face value and uncritically thinking about it is not a fair way to engage with the text I feel. You’re right when Jon himself reiterates Sansa’s claim over Winterfell, we are supposed to think twice whether Robb’s action was equitable or not. Stannis calls Sansa “Lady Lannister” to coax Jon into staking a claim over Winterfell so that Stannis gets a good reason to march to Winterfell and attack the Boltons (which he will anyway, but Jon’s, a member of the Stark family, support would mean political backing and reason). If we fall in the trap that Stannis thinks Sansa is now a Lannister, and therefore she is now a Lannister with no claim to Winterfell, then we’ve lost the plot and are coming from the same misogynistic hypocrisy (he wants Shireen on the throne if he dies but calls Sansa a Lannister, how does that work old man?) that destroys Westeros (your Jaehaerys example). And are no different from a crusty medieval era middle aged man btw.

It’s so fucking funny when the readers start emulating the same sexism that the author wants them to critique, and then start calling themselves feminists because they’re supporting a woman’s rights! Which woman’s rights besties? Because the one that clearly has them, you’re actively against her staking her claim. Wait till they read the books with their eyes open and realise that Arya comes at the end of the heirs to winterfell list, despite Sansa getting “disinherited” lmao. And I love Robb, he’s just a boy trying to do his best, but he truly made mistakes, especially with not listening to Catelyn. We also cannot deny the undercurrent of misogyny and chauvinism that Robb demonstrated with the will. Re Sansa’s rights and Jon’s decision to be with the Nights Watch. I will patiently wait for Catelyn to be validated and Sansa to be the Lady/QiTN not only because that subverts reader’s expectations and Westerosi patriarchal standards but because I want to see Sansa antis have a grand old meltdown.

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I am hopeful that at the end, the Iron Islands, Dorne and the North will be independent and will be ruled by women.

Yup me too. All of the three kingdoms have a strong history of demanding independence from the iron throne pre-asoiaf and have recurring themes of independence in asoiaf. (Balon’s war of independence when Theon was taken as a hostage by Ned, the entire Robb Stark arc and now the Great Northern Conspiracy, and finally, Dorne burning to avenge Elia pipeline to breaking away from the IT after Aegon VI dies). It would be a reasonable resolution to have the kingdoms gain independence.

I genuinely don’t know how George is going to resolve Asha and Sansa being the queens of their respective kingdoms considering they do have living brother(s) whose claim is stronger than theirs… solely by account of them being men…. :/But anyway, Theon could vouch for Asha and then declare a rule of simple primogeniture, like in Dorne, going forward, much like he did in the show. If it even comes to that …(Euron, Victarion, general misogyny do stand in the way). As for Sansa, she has a much more complicated path ahead, both for getting her family back together and then ultimately becoming the QiTN. However, all of that being said, all of the three girls’ arc is barreling towards unequivocal independence, agency and leadership. It’s not hard to guess that they will end up as the effective rulers of their own respective kingdoms.

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Whenever people talk about lack of media literacy they always bring up people who think a character doing bad things=the author endorsing said bad things which are very annoying but I feel like we're ignoring the opposite, equally annoying side of the discourse who think if you criticize the inclusion/depiction of dark/sensitive topics in any way it’s bc you’re a dumb baby who can’t separate fiction from reality. and it's like no I know I’m not supposed to clap and cheer at violence against women I’m criticizing how much of it there is. Idiot

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what do you think fandom wise would happen if j0nsa was heavily hinted at in winds? most BNFs would have the biggest aneurysm lol

Well, it will definitely divide the fandom even more. As for the BNFs they will react the same way they did when the affc outline was released and the “resolve to be sansa stark” and “take north” excerpts came to light: by writing lengthy essays about how it’s something else entirely. Or maybe go full ostrich syndrome and duck their heads into the sand, and deny everything; claim that jonsas are delusional and we’re only seeing things we want to see. They might even go one step further and argue that Jon has lost his character and the Jon they know would never do anything like this, which is fairly common for fandoms in general to do.

As for jonsas, there might be schisms in this fandom too. I know and love mutuals who wish for Jon & Sansa to fall in love while they think siblings and get married to save the north and unmuddle the claim to the north, but I personally feel like the story is moving towards Sansa gaining more agency and independence in her life, so I would like for her to choose who she wants to marry, and it has to be someone who wants her despite her claim to the north. So them marrying out of obligation will never work for me, and people like me. But, a win is a win ;)

I think jonsa neutrals will continue to be just that and analyse the book from a non-ship perspective, which they still do.

Would love to see the tiktok “who is jeyne poole” and “cersei jaime incest explained” and “did you know in the books…” plebeians have a collective meltdown because they usually seem to have the strongest opinions on the books without ever having read them. I’ll have popcorn ready lol.

HOWEVER, the hints will only worsen the fandom wars we have going on. Every single anti opinion will trigger us and every single meta post by us will trigger the antis launching into an all out nuclear attack from both sides which will result in both new jonsas and new jonsa antis, twitter blowing up our posts, and a frustrated and unfruitful yearn for ados on all ends. The world side-eyes us and moves on, we don’t.

But, for that George has to release twow first, which rn feels both inevitable yet impossible.

TLDR: fandom remains fandom, we fight over the book like surviving factions over a fresh deer carcass after a zombie apocalypse, no one moves on.

[catofoldstones]

GRRM did AFFC so good actually. Flipped the male-centric series on its head with majorly female PoVs and then started the book with our resident paranoiapilled Cersei Lannister convinced that her killer is hiding in the walls of the Red Keep. He introduced the first true knight of the series, keeping an oath to a dead woman. No chance, no choice. Asha fighting centuries of patriarchy to fight for her throne. “Balon let her believe she was a man.” “Your father made the same mistake with you.” Sansa and the whole Vale arc? Arya’s Cat of the Canals arc?? Hello? We have been served female characters on a platter here and I for one am eating. it. up. He truly snapped here tbh.

[catofoldstones]

Show Dany’s burning of KL has always been seen as a Mad Queen argument but I always thought of it as entitlement and rage emanating from that entitlement. The people of Westeros were supposed to welcome her and her armies, they were supposed to open their arms and open their forts up to the rightful ruler of their kingdom, they were supposed to vouch for her not be resistant to her rightful conquest, not attack her, provide her with what was hers all along, overthrow the usurpers in her name before she even came along. They were supposed to be on her side and they weren’t. They betrayed her. So she burned them and she took what was hers, with fire and blood. It wasn’t some of unreasoned madness but I feel wrongfully reasoned clarity.

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yeah overthinking prophecies is the mind killer but i have to say my piece re azor ahai, that is, if it's really meant to be one character, then the best narrative choice is dany. not only because she fulfills every word of the prophecy an entire book before we even learn of its existence. but also "no one ever looked for a girl," aemon tells us. in-universe her gender precludes her from being imagined as the saviour figure and on a meta level even the readers don't think the 16 year old girl with this much power (dragons) will be allowed to keep that power and fulfill an important narrative destiny as a hero of the story. the expectation is that the character will be brought low and/or surpassed by the classic warrior hero archetype of jon. which is why i think dany being AA is the most subversive choice. and would actually make jon the red herring.

[catofoldstones]

The Cave of Spleen by Aubrey Beardsley (1872 - 1898)

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I Love them

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son of elia

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breakup so bad you turn to a life of service to god

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Can you imagine the incandescent rage Cersei would feel if she knew Stannis Baratheon WAS seduceable all along she just had to magically kill one of his brothers? My girl would be steaming she'd be like I DID THAT WITH MY WITS AND JUGS (of wine) AND SOMEHOW IM IN THE WRONG???

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No joke you guys NEED to get more comfortable blocking people. No more insulting people in public over different blorbo opinions no more making 2k long posts on how whatever ship you don't like shouldn't exist we've grown past that shit. Consistent posts about shit that make you uncomfortable? Block. Rancid blorbo opinions? Block. Is mildly annoying in your replies? Block. Pisses you off for reasons so petty you could never admit it publicly? Block. YOUR mental health will improve from not being upset 24/7, THEIR mental health will not be at risk of you lashing out because you happened to catch their posts on a bad day, and EVERYONE ELSE will benefit from not seeing the most embarrassing arguments known to man on their dash. "Oooh but they didn't deserve it-" dude you're presumably running a personal blog as a hobby not a public service. Who fucking cares.

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Listen I know I like to shit on the Game of Thrones show since I started reading the books but nothing, and I mean nothing, tops Bronn as Lord Paramount of the Reach, because the Tyrells are all dead, as one of the scenes that sends me up a wall on all fours in a rabid rage, hanging onto the ceiling with nothing but my teeth

[catofoldstones]

Actually scratch all of that, this ↑ is the correct answer

what is "you will dance with me anon?"

It’s a callback in Jon’s mind to Alys Karstark’s dialogue to Jon during her wedding, but with a twist.

The conversation goes something like this

“You could dance with me, you know. It would be only courteous. You danced with me anon.”

“Anon?” teased Jon.”

Jon X, ADWD

“Anon” is an old English word which I feel is most closely translated to presently or shortly. It’s an adverb that denotes a future tense, something that is yet to happen, and Alys uses it in the past tense to say that, “hey we danced just now”, which is why Jon teases her.

Jon later thinks back on this moment but uses the correct tense of the word

A snowflake danced upon the air. Then another. Dance with me, Jon Snow, he thought. You'll dance with me anon.

Jon XII, ADWD

To me, this feels like a cry across time a space. Maybe you had the wrong dance partner last time (past tense use of the word anon which is wrong), Jon Snow, next time (the correct usage of anon) it will be the right one.

And also, since anon means soon, I am led to believe that Jon and Sansa will also meet pretty soon (as soon as twow, if my eyes ever have the good luck of seeing its pages), for a dance maybe, literal or metaphorical.