chat-dank - Tumblr blog

chat-dank · 7 months

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Yes, I did read the post. The post itself was fine for the most part, and I can even understand why so many people liked it. Everyone's preferences are valid. This reblog is similarly respectful, well written, understandable and completely justified. Not that it needs to be justified because you owe no one a comprehensive breakdown of your fandom past. And you never will, both because you should not be judged or evaluated based on that past and because no matter what you liked or posted or didn't post, you have the right to have any opinion you want on this ship.

The reblog chain of your original post though was a raging dumpsterfire that went against the original point and entered bashing town real quick with not one single word of opposition, so I deemed it best to not interact with the original post because if this was the conversation you all wanted to have, fine. I know not all opinions are welcome on all posts, and I didn't feel like forcing mine onto yours. That being said, now that you're here engaging with the other side, I'm going to highlight parts of the replies that weren't originally highlighted to demonstrate my problem with it. I am also going to put the rest of this under read more because this is going to be a very, very long post (the whole thing is about 1700+ words).

"what is even the point of this ship if it's not even a tiny bit fucked up?" "really? With these two? :\" "They sell it as a goofy moron cumslut OC with no personality beyond goofy moron cumslut." "He's not nice, he's not a big soft goofy dumbass. I'm not interested in this OC with a Melkor name tag slapped across him."

First of all, to the first 2 lines (that weren't made by you as the OP of your own post, I know) - the point is the same as the point of any other ship. They're fictional characters, and people are allowed to do whatever they want with it without owing a crowd that doesn't like their take an explanation. That's the point of this ship. That's the point of any other ships in this fandom and any other fandom. Yes, really, even with these two. Humanity has suffered more than enough in the last couple years between the plethora of horrid shit going on in the real world, and everyone's allowed to do whatever they want with whatever fictional characters that make them feel happy playing with at the moment. Again, yes, even with these two!

For the next point, why is it that when people disagree with each other in fandom, they just have to throw out this degrading accusation? 'Well he's an OC', 'well he's not the real Melkor', 'well it's because other people dare writing him in a way I don't like'. 'And if they dare to write him in that way, he has no personality either. Because I said so and I'm right and the other side is stupid for disagreeing with me.' This feels like a mean take for the sake of being mean and nothing else. The other side's takes annoy you? invalidate them entirely by suggesting that anything they write is in direct opposition to the written character and that you know better because you write yours strictly canonically by... having a gay ship in a Catholic author's work. You know, I think we've all lost at this point, because none of our takes are canon or can ever be canon. Dragging down the other side doesn't automatically make your side or your takes closer to canon, because in canon, this ship, as well as any other same sex or same gender ship, shouldn't exist.

Regardless, since none of the involved have decided to bring up the fics themselves or their authors, I've skimmed through Ao3 angbang fics of the recent 6 months, and now I suspect I know what fics and authors you two are referencing. Unfortunately, the vast majority of the fics I've found fitting this description are pwp oneshots, one short multichapter, and one long multichapter. I am sorry, but what sort of fully developed personality do you want Melkor's character to have in a one shot about fucking? Does he have to start every session by killing 3 elves, then killing Mairon and resurrecting him? would that be in character enough? Or would that too be OOC because the oneshot involved Melkor saying something nice to Mairon at any point during intercourse? Or is that OOC because this (again, one shot pwp focused fic about fucking) work did not go into enough details on how brutally Melkor killed the poor victims in the beginning?

Is there any specific threshold people should cross in order for their oneshot to be considered "in character"? Or do the agreed upon councils of Máhanaxar appointed arbitrarily by each side have to decide on a case by case basis, taking in factors like "Do we like this writer? have they written the "correct" version of this ship enough times in the past for us to give them a pass? have they swore upon their souls before us proclaiming our version superior, but have written this fic as a gift to their heretic friend who thinks differently?" Do you see how mind bafflingly stupid the whole thing is when you break it down? When will this nonsense end?

Who of you get to decide what is or isn't in character? If the other side does that, and calls your depictions names, the other side needs some serious self-reflection too. If they've been as crass and dismissive to all who oppose them, they need to sit down, shut the fuck up, practice what they preach and ask themselves what authority they have over a ship of 2 male characters that realistically speaking wouldn't ever be considered in character by Tolkien so long as they're shipped together in any capacity, no matter how they're depicted, simply because they're a MxM ship.

As for the claim that people on here are dragging darker content, I'll admit that I've only scrolled the angbang tag as far down as January and didn't see any of that, but that might be on me. Maybe some people did and it was in December of last year or earlier. Maybe some posted such takes and then deleted them reasonably quickly and I wasn't here to see it, maybe the people who did post that sort of things have me blocked (which is presumably because I'd call out their side too for that sort of behavior lmfao). If you ever see that sort of behavior again feel free to tag me, because being a douche to others is deserving of callout and criticism no matter which side of a ship debate someone is on and they deserve to be told this as well. Dragging either interpretation is an idiotic take and should be treated as such before it grows roots. If you are implying that this post is here to drag down yours, then no, it isn't. OP was making a joke about the disproportionate "too much moral purity" (which I suppose can translate into 'too much fluff') claim by asking where all these fics are, as did the person who first reblogged it adding all of their tags. I'm not dragging your opinion either, by the way. My first addition was about the fact that any fandom, in the absence of the first choice of popular punching bag, will soon move on to the next one, and in this fandom all of the popular non-canon ships can be scrutinized and picked apart for hours across dozens of posts, which the people who do not like specific brands of angbang and don't mind invalidating others for liking them, but mainly follow these other ships will absolutely not like being on the receiving end of. This second reblog is to point out the issues people might have a problem with regarding the way some of your side treats the opposition. As for the feeling of people being actively discouraged from writing different takes on or different interpretations of angbang, I'd say that statements of encouragement for them, like ones you've ended your reply to me with, are far, far more preferrable and effective than dunking on the people with the other take, with whom you and the people reblogging from you seem to disagree. I hope everyone gets to feel safe and happy and encouraged to experiment and knows that someone out there will support them! I just don't think that going as far as presenting the other side as inferior or laughable or worse than yours is the correct type of encouragement anyone should be looking for or offering.

I do hope you managed to rally people with similar views and got a nice illuminating discussion out of it the way you intended though, because some of what I saw there was just mean to writers, while just being vague enough to not call out anyone by name, and this feels targeted in a way that the people actually being criticized cannot even respond to because of the plausible deniability involved in not naming them directly. I'd like to finish this post by adding that I genuinely hope that one day tumblr as a whole would finally treat fanwriters the way it treats fanartists. Not in the "let's guilt trip people into reblogging something they don't like to support the creator anyway", because that's an idiotic take and we need less of it. I mean it more in the sense of "See something you don't like? Remember that it's for others, not just for you. Interact with the content you do like instead and have a wonderful day." Maybe next time the writers themselves could drop by and give us their perspective, too, because it is starting to feel very stupid that I'm here trying to defend the side of people I've never interacted with from the other side of people I've never interacted with.

Also I'm going to remind everyone here that this post's OP's goal was to collect all of those horribly controversial soft Angbang fics and it seems like they haven't been delivered. Maybe at this point we should get on that instead.

Ppl are complaining about all the soft angbang fics nowadays and I’m like damn where can I find them so I can read them

#I'd tag the writers but they've seen it and want no involvement in it and also OP is just as “guilty” for writing one such fic themselves.#and it's a very cute fic with nothing wrong with it #Ship and let ship #long post #blood mention #violence mention #murder mention #ask to tag #this is so redundant at this point #I could've written one of each version of this ship a 900 word ficlet with this amount of words #but some of this stuff had to be said #only a matter of time now before the other post starts attracting actual antis who would run with it to slander all aspects of the ship

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chat-dank · 7 months

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#angbang #shitpost #I'm trying to reply to another person regarding the recent drama but tumblr keeps telling me that they have trouble processing my post #so in the meantime here's the soldier meme I promised earlier

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chat-dank · 7 months

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What people seem to forget is that while to them, mocking or ridiculing an interpretation or ship they don't like is all fun and games, the Silm fandom is not especially large. So if the people who create the content being publicly laughed at all decide to go quiet with it for a while, there won't be much new content for a ship like Angbang to ridicule in the future. And the problem with that is, of course, that Angbang isn't the only "problematic" ship in this fandom, and some of the other all-time fandom darlings are also not immune to criticism. How long do these people think it will be before everything they like gets dismissed as "OOC" and gets called to be treated as less valid because "this is not the ship you should go to for X type of content"?

Ppl are complaining about all the soft angbang fics nowadays and I’m like damn where can I find them so I can read them

#Ship and let ship #I want to add the meme of the cartoon soldier kneeling between a sleeping kid and a bunch of bullets and knives but I'm at work #maybe later #tangent aside OP is completely right #why is this the one tag in the entire Silm where all of 3 people go “hehe I wrote these characters cuter than the widely accepted norm!”#and 10 other people jump at the chance to be publicly baffled at them for daring to take a fictional ship in a direction they didn't expect #genuinely and respectfully - what are those people doing?#I've seen some of the depictions of characters other popular ships. They will NOT like when the dismissals and ridicule is directed at them #they should've left the “cute angbang” people alone because none of them are ready for the conversations regarding THEIR blorbos' morality #fandom discourse

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chat-dank · 10 months

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You have the right to like your Angbang intense. You have the right to like your Angbang fucked up. You have the right to like your Angbang unhinged. You have the right to like your Angbang harmful. But you also have a right to like your Angbang fluffy, too. You are not woobifying them if you like it soft or write a fic where they say they love each other or kiss or high five or take a bite from the same sandwich or whatever. You have a different interpretation, that’s all. You’re not committing some horrid unforgivable atrocity against your fandom. You’re not an “annoying fan” if you want your ships happy, even if other people dislike you for it, the same way you are not an “annoying fan” if you like your ships intense and other people dislike you for it. You’re not a mean person for having an opinion that the majority dislikes. You’re an individual human being who has an opinion and your opinion is worth JUST as much as every other opinion in your fandom. Because that’s how opinions work. You’re not disregarding canon any more than people who bend it to fit their other non-canon ships or headcanons or other interpretations of this ship or their interpretation of any other ship or anything else that JRRT or Christopher or the Tolkien estate disagree with. We all see a piece of media and interpret it differently. It doesn’t make any of us better or worse for it. Ship and let ship.

#Can the #Silmarillion #fandom stop being hostile towards different depictions of their own ships #for five minutes?#Yeah another post about #angbang #Remember how the Tolkien estate was FURIOUS with the LOTR trilogy for the changes that were made?#Remember how millions of people still saw the films and fell in love with LOTR and Middle Earth and the very concept of fantasy regardless?#Children who never saw another LOTR adaptation prior and adults who remember the Bakshi version& their localized low-budget tv adaptations #all saw it and agreed that a story made with so much love still deserves to be told even if there were changes made to the source material #If a story or a headcanon or an opinion about a ship or a fanwork or an interpretation is made with love to bring people joy...#it has the right to be shared #even if those people aren't the majority by the way #Did Jackson woobify Aragorn by giving him extra angst? If so.. where are all the takes about bad fans liking woobified angsty movie Aragorn?#Remember the times before the 2-3 artists who often drew supportive angbang left when people kept giving them crap for their depictions?#And now you don't see that art anymore either on tumblr or at all. Does that make anyone happy? did anyone accomplish their goals?#Why make people leave again? Do you hate differing opinions so much that they do not deserve the right to exist?#Does it genuinely make anyone happy to try rid a fandom of all ideas they disagree with them their preexisting friends' ones? Why?#I'm so old I still remember when it was common fandom etiquette to NOT tag the thing you were insulting without the word 'anti' before it.#...Do I need to keep going or can we ship and let ship now and NOT mock people for having a different take on a FICTIONAL pairing?

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chat-dank · 1 year

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If you’re not into Angbang for the "In a world where I hate everyone and everything, against all odds, I found acceptance / love in you” dynamic and the ancient, poetic intimacy of order and chaos, of creation and destruction, I’m not really sure what you’re here for.

#angbang #every time I see people try to abusify this ship it BAFFLES me #there are horrible ships all over the place in Tolkien's work!#the FUN of Angbang is that they're probably aware their side is living on borrowed time but they fight together for their cause regardless #at some point they aren't even afraid of the war to come they just enjoy finally being reunited in the same fortress under one roof again #They will destroy the entire world and lay its corpse at each other's feet as a token of affection because they know it'll be appreciated!#What makes two people a couple isn't the approval of God/Eru or lack thereof. It's the people's compatibility #And there's something so beautiful and powerful and intimate and all-consuming in its magnitude #about primordial forces like Order and Chaos working together to find a balance that allows them to thrive #Fun fact - Norse mythology (which was an inspiration for Tolkien btw) is based precisely on this. The delicate balance of Order and Chaos.#...Do I need to keep going or can we ship and let ship now and NOT mock people for having a different take on a FICTIONAL pairing?#because I can keep going

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chat-dank · 2 years

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Here’s a revolutionary idea:

If you hate the angbang ship, don’t go searching the angbang tag because you’ll find content on that tag containing the angbang ship. It’s that simple.

#And also block tags you don't want to see to avoid posts that have these tags... pretty self explanatory.#angbang #y'all weren't kidding when you told me that the silm fandom is even more hostile to its own ships than the ML one lmfao.#and at least the ML fandom has the excuse of being 35% teenagers #NOT that teenagers being hostile is a good thing. But we don't hold them to the same standard as adults for a reason #not putting it on my sideblog because it's not ML related #fandom discourse #that a//ma//zo//n show has been out for a month and a half and it's already causing widespread ship hate. That did not take long lmfao

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chat-dank · 4 years

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I've already watched the french version, so the eng dub cant hurt me!!