dragonsandphoenix

[dragonsandphoenix]

#people are allowed to not like smut but danmei is supposed to have smut actually#if not then it better be very very satisfying in another way but usually the way it is constructed#and the buttons it is pushing#and the expectations it is setting#mean that when there is no smut it feels like a missing piece. it just feels like plain censorship#and censorship SUCKS omg#tgcf being censored makes me want to bite something#I KNOW fandom mischaracterise the characters wildly because we didn't het to see them be freaks in the sheets

yep this, all of this. the last few danmei i read desperately lacked payoff because of the lack of smut. even the chinese readers in the comments were wondering if it was censored at some point or if it was just written that way. the couples in those novels fall into some shade of dom/sub dynamic which we don't see get fleshed out. imagine, reading the first danmei where the MC actively calls the ML 'daddy' and we don't see how that plays out in bed.

i see a lot of people on this blog talking about smut vs no smut, but I firmly believe that every bl fan falls into one of two camps.

The first one is the group of people that believe smut scenes are simply part of bl; that without it, it's like pancakes without syrup. Fine, enjoyable even given the right pancake recipe, but definitely lacking something. People in this camp can vary in their enjoyment of smut, with some people practically forcing themselves through everything else to get to it, to others simply enjoying it just as much as the rest of the ride.

The other group is made of those who don't believe that smut is an integral part of bl. This camp tends to err on the side of disliking smut. Rather than smut being the syrup on your pancakes, it's like sprinkles on your ice cream. Does it look sparkly and attract a lot of customers? Yes. Does it actually bring anything substantial to the ice cream? No, and it might even disrupt the creamy texture of the ice cream. Like the first group, people in this one can vary in their enjoyment of smut. Some people like it, some are closer to tolerating the scenes when they come along, and others actively avoid it.

My hot take is that camp 2 "should" be correct. And this doesn't have anything to do with purity or the idea that sex is immoral or inappropriate. I myself enjoy smut in various types of media - manhwa, danmei, fanfiction, and even live action bl series. However, I think that one of the main arguments that camp 1 uses to defend their stance is that besides the fact that it can just be enjoyable for the sake of being enjoyable, it's a good insight to the characters, their relationship dynamic, and their development. I don't necessarily disagree, and I think it can be true, just not as often as people seem to think.

The thing is, I believe that if a book is written well, it should be able to communicate those things without smut. A character's personality/development and the way it relates to the other character's personality/development doesn't only show itself through sex. A real human's character is evident in many different scenarios, rather than only when getting down and dirty, so why should it be any different for danmei characters?

If I had to put myself in a camp, it'd be the second one. That said, I have nothing against sprinkles on my ice cream, to bring the metaphor back for a moment. And I have no problem with you if you prefer your ice cream with sprinkles. But I do feel a little icky when anyone starts talking about how you should or shouldn't want them. And if I wished that there were more ice cream that came with less sprinkles, or none at all, that doesn't mean I'm against sprinkles existing as a topping. It only means I don't want sprinkles as a default.

Y’know what this is a completely valid argument and I understand what you’re saying and the analogy is solid.

However… I do believe in the power of a payoff. I’m also old and started my bl journey reading yaoi scanlations and fully support the whole ‘no climax, no point, no meaning’ rhetoric.

I’m more lenient when it comes to danmei because of censorship, though I do favour smut peddling. It’s basically the reason that I’ve never got into manhua. All the manhwa I read is r rated.

I dunno, I just find reading smut really calming.

Basically what I’m saying is, the art of writing itself is important and there’s a lot of really good bl creators out there. But sometimes, sometimes you just need to see a monster cock before you can sleep at night.

[dragonsandphoenix]

OP might understand what anon is saying, but I don't. I'm sorry but why is this a danmei hot take? Most danmei fans who read a novel that was written after 2015 would probably not expect smut like it's a given.

But okay, let's exist in the fantasy land where authors can just freely insert sexual scenes into their work with no consequence

However, I think that one of the main arguments that camp 1 uses to defend their stance is that besides the fact that it can just be enjoyable for the sake of being enjoyable, it's a good insight to the characters, their relationship dynamic, and their development. I don't necessarily disagree, and I think it can be true, just not as often as people seem to think. The thing is, I believe that if a book is written well, it should be able to communicate those things without smut.

Bold parts are mine. And it might just be one of the dumbest things I've read in regards to fiction and art. Nothing in fiction happens because it "should" happen. If you wanna apply that argument, in every piece of fiction, every action scene, every plot point, every genre trope is not necessary, frankly. Go outside, be productive and get a job or something, christ.

The better question would be why not communicate those things through smut? If you want to convey characters and their approach to relationships, sex, sexuality, sense of self, why not do it through smut? Just do it, be free.

Also lots of danmei are ruined by them not having smut (or more likely, have the smut censored). Or at least sexual scenes.

i see a lot of people on this blog talking about smut vs no smut, but I firmly believe that every bl fan falls into one of two camps.

The first one is the group of people that believe smut scenes are simply part of bl; that without it, it's like pancakes without syrup. Fine, enjoyable even given the right pancake recipe, but definitely lacking something. People in this camp can vary in their enjoyment of smut, with some people practically forcing themselves through everything else to get to it, to others simply enjoying it just as much as the rest of the ride.

The other group is made of those who don't believe that smut is an integral part of bl. This camp tends to err on the side of disliking smut. Rather than smut being the syrup on your pancakes, it's like sprinkles on your ice cream. Does it look sparkly and attract a lot of customers? Yes. Does it actually bring anything substantial to the ice cream? No, and it might even disrupt the creamy texture of the ice cream. Like the first group, people in this one can vary in their enjoyment of smut. Some people like it, some are closer to tolerating the scenes when they come along, and others actively avoid it.

My hot take is that camp 2 "should" be correct. And this doesn't have anything to do with purity or the idea that sex is immoral or inappropriate. I myself enjoy smut in various types of media - manhwa, danmei, fanfiction, and even live action bl series. However, I think that one of the main arguments that camp 1 uses to defend their stance is that besides the fact that it can just be enjoyable for the sake of being enjoyable, it's a good insight to the characters, their relationship dynamic, and their development. I don't necessarily disagree, and I think it can be true, just not as often as people seem to think.

The thing is, I believe that if a book is written well, it should be able to communicate those things without smut. A character's personality/development and the way it relates to the other character's personality/development doesn't only show itself through sex. A real human's character is evident in many different scenarios, rather than only when getting down and dirty, so why should it be any different for danmei characters?

If I had to put myself in a camp, it'd be the second one. That said, I have nothing against sprinkles on my ice cream, to bring the metaphor back for a moment. And I have no problem with you if you prefer your ice cream with sprinkles. But I do feel a little icky when anyone starts talking about how you should or shouldn't want them. And if I wished that there were more ice cream that came with less sprinkles, or none at all, that doesn't mean I'm against sprinkles existing as a topping. It only means I don't want sprinkles as a default.

Y’know what this is a completely valid argument and I understand what you’re saying and the analogy is solid.

However… I do believe in the power of a payoff. I’m also old and started my bl journey reading yaoi scanlations and fully support the whole ‘no climax, no point, no meaning’ rhetoric.

I’m more lenient when it comes to danmei because of censorship, though I do favour smut peddling. It’s basically the reason that I’ve never got into manhua. All the manhwa I read is r rated.

I dunno, I just find reading smut really calming.

Basically what I’m saying is, the art of writing itself is important and there’s a lot of really good bl creators out there. But sometimes, sometimes you just need to see a monster cock before you can sleep at night.

[dragonsandphoenix]

One day Mu Qing wakes up first. He’s lying, nestled in the blanket, and watches Feng Xin’s face. A few strands of hair are falling on the nose and mouth. It doesn’t look comfortable, so Mu Qing carefully tucks them behind Feng Xin’s ear. He brushes fingers over his hair a few times. Runs a tip over the edge of the ear. He brings his fingers to Feng Xin’s forehead. Barely touching, he runs them over light wrinkles, stopping for a moment on a permanent frown, to study it more thoroughly or to try to smooth it – it’s hard to tell. Mu Qing takes in the roughness of the skin on the nose, the rise of the cheekbone just below the eyelashes, the deep corner of the mouth. All of his touches are feather-light to avoid waking Feng Xin and they are filled with tenderness and curiosity as if being this close to another person is a marvel to him.

Feng Xin is so fucking glad he woke up first and decided to prank Mu Qing and pretend to be asleep.

Eventually something goes wrong and gives Feng Xin away. Mu Qing is very embarrassed and furious. Feng Xin tries his best to apologize, repeating over and over how much he loves Mu Qing (which leads to even more embarrassment unfortunately), because who knows, maybe Mu Qing will clam up forever now that this lover has solid evidence that he has a soft side (not that Feng Xin didn’t have this evidence before).

All in all, it’s a mess.

Sometime later, Feng Xin wakes up, because a vicious feral beast is quite literally trying to chomp his entire face off. He fights for his life and when he finally pries Mu Qing away, he demands to know what’s gotten into him.

Turns out this time Mu Qing actually woke up first, scrutinized Feng Xin’s face for 20 minutes, thought he pretended again and decided to bite his nose as a punishment. By the way, despite exaggerated reaction, Mu Qing was still sure Feng Xin was playing tricks on him.

[dragonsandphoenix]

First official trailer of upcoming omegaverse chinese BL Desire The Series shows mpreg happening to 2 characters 🫃🫃❗️ Coming in 2025

"Super reversal! Adorably cute escape plan with mpreg!"

Summary: Yong Hua wants Sheng, a proud alpha, to be his exclusive omega. After an incident, the doctor shocked Sheng with the news of him being pregnant. The second couple’s story depicts Shen and Gao, an omega who pretending to be a beta. Shen hates omegas and makes it impossible for Gao to be with him.

BTS confirmed it will feature the main couple's child too.

13 episodes, 30 minutes each. Filmed in China through a taiwanese production company, will only be broadcast internationally. Wrapped filming this February.

[dragonsandphoenix]

After the arrests last year of danmei authors who published their works on the Taiwanese website Haitang, the authorities have allegedly arrested another 200-300 authors, many of whom took to weibo to share their experiences recently.

What struck me is how the authors always blamed themselves for not being cautious enough or being led astray by their financial needs, but nobody put the blame on the unjust rules and the greed of the authorities that led to their arrests - not that they would dare to. It's an utterly bizarre situation that, as a new danmei English license seems to be announced once every few days here on the other side of China's Great Firewall, within China the persecution keeps getting more rampant and the danmei community feels more and more cornered and frightened. Reality is always more surreal than fiction.

I translated some of the author's weibo posts, please see below:

“I knew I was being naïve and over-optimistic (about the repercussions of writing danmei), so I can’t blame anyone. Sometimes I want to resent society but then I’ll give up the thought. As for the criminal punishment, my view on it is still the same - I even feel that I’m different from those who engage in prostitution; after all, I made all this money by typing my stories word by word. Yet when I got into trouble, people talked about it as if I didn’t have to work for my income.” - This is from an author who wrote danmei because her family’s poor and she wanted to save money to travel. She got into a master’s programme before this and the programme kicked her out because of her arrest.

“Ever since I was little, I’ve always been the well-behaved golden child in my parents’ eyes. I had the best grades among my peers and won scholarships in both high school and university. When we visited family during New Year and other festivals, my parents were always proud of me in front of our relatives. But that day I shamed them thoroughly and the shame will always stick around...I love the characters I wrote very much, planning and creating their stores always brought me so much happiness and fulfillment. But a mistake is a mistake. I want to use my personal experience to admonish others - don’t try to go against the regulations in any way ever, don’t put yourself in the slightest bit of risk.”

“I’ve never felt this horrible in my entire life. I’ve always firmly believed that nobody in this world could be that bad. My rose-tinted glasses were broken along with my romantic expectations for the world. My values and outlook on life were shattered. When something like this happens, perhaps only the family of the author involved and the author herself would be hurt deeply! It’s just business for everyone else!”

This one’s written by the author’s sibling: “Another sleepless night. Tomorrow is the Dragon Boat Festival, and it’s been three festivals since we could be together...I’ve felt remorseful for countless times that I didn’t contact more people and I felt that I haven’t done enough. I prayed to the gods and the Buddha for more times in the past two months than in the past 30 years. Besides asking for the Heaven’s protection and blessing, what else can we do?...You supported yourself financially during university solely by doing part-time jobs. We’ve always put too much importance on money, and that’s how we allowed you to make a mistake.”

(link to the original weibo posts: https://x.com/whyyoutouzhele/status/1928763362541818266)

[dragonsandphoenix]

op took off rb but this one rly sat w me🧘

[dragonsandphoenix]

Yet You're In Love With An Idiot Audio Drama || Theme Song, "Withdrawal"

演唱：白翎@一白翎一、秋风MusiX 制作人： 奇才@亿万虎力 作曲：奇才@亿万虎力 作词：龙小套@龙小套是一颗桃 编曲：老闫@亿万虎力 混音/母带：Newyounggo@亿万虎力 监制：阿仓@次昂仓 海报设计：伪鳝@普遍善良

Don’t you know you had me…had me at first sight. Your words, refuse, and the way you waste my time. But I can’t help myself falling tonight. I’m falling for you~ Oh

只不过是眼神触及 连呼吸也一瞬入迷 让四周空气逐渐变得稠密 靠近你的鼻息 无处藏匿

靠近我 埋下伏笔 却侵袭 所有领地 这边界 一再退避 Oh

思绪翻云覆雨 不能自己 每寸吻的痕迹 成为烙印 印刻在身体里 缠绕我 甘之如饴无法抽离

将我紧紧困住挣脱不出如何才能把你看清楚 oh 我可以让步 为你放弃所有的退路 从未如此清醒却放纵自己跟随沉沦盲目oh 谁是圈套里 盲目挣扎求生的猎物

就放过彼此一条生路 赦免你我都曾执迷不悟 我们像是忘记逃亡的俘虏 未能将彼此禁锢 却各自作茧自缚

背弃我 用心良苦 真与假 天翻地覆 我和你 末路穷途 Oh

为何无法解除 无名的想念混合着嫉妒 在回忆里变成一种痛楚 不肯走 将我报复钉在原处

就当误入迷途我想至少还能趁现在及时止步 oh 我可以让步 任由你 将自己放逐 从未如此清醒却放纵自己跟��沉沦盲目 oh 我可以盲目 直到你 教会我醒悟

画面一幕一幕 随着指针倒数 过往水落石出 I’ve got nothing left to lose to lose

就放过彼此一条生路 若谎言和情话一样刻骨 我们像是病入膏肓的赌徒 无法戒断这爱慕 仍为你一掷孤注

[dragonsandphoenix]

We will have to wait until these come out but I am looking forward to the translations of Larivegauche's licensed works (Tailhook by Rosmei and The Approach by Haitang Books) as their smut is pretty top tier. Another aspect of good smut writing to me is the relationship dynamic. That's why while I can acknowledge Meatbun writes some erotic smut, I can't say I care for them because I don't really care for her characters. I'm also looking forward to some other novels like Gold Class Enforcers and Beyond The Snowstorm, both by Rosmei which are also heavy in spice and sound like they're up my alley in terms of tropes.

Finally, one of the biggest reasons I want someone to license Shui Qian Cheng's novels already is because of the high level of spice that they contain, and while that's not the only reason why more people should read her work, the fan translations are really inconsistent in terms of quality and accessibility and I really just want easily accessible SQC novels. Also it'd be really nice to read her smut in one place rather than finding them scattered all across the internet and MTLing them.

Getting Smutty With It: Results

Tumblr ranking of the best smut:

8) Riverbay Road Men’s Dormitory

7) To Rule in a Turbulent World

6) Lip and Sword

5) Remnants of Filth

4) Case File Compendium

3) Grandmaster of Demonic Cultivation

2) Ballad of Sword and Wine

1) The Husky and His White Cat Shizun

I’m not going to lie… I have some thoughts.

Mainly, Lan Wangji does not deserve 3rd place. That man is bad at sex and Mxtx needs to learn what foreplay is.

Secondly, I’m not surprised Ballad of Sword and Wine scored so highly, but the art is definitely doing a lot of heavy lifting.

Personally, I would’ve put Case File Compendium as higher than The Husky and His White Cat Shizun. Like chapter 102 should’ve swung it alone.

Finally, I need to talk to the smut appreciators of the tumblr danmei community - you all need to go read Lip and Sword. It has the most frequent sex scenes of any danmei I’ve ever read and is basically some of my favourite bl tropes in general. Also, welcome Fei Tian Ye Xiang into your lives:

To Rule in a Turbulent World Chapter 3:

Riverbay Road Men’s Dormitory Chapter 20:

[dragonsandphoenix]

So I just randomly found this danmei called Notes from the Grey Tower and the audio drama. There's also a complete fan tl. I think what's unique about this one is that it takes place in Britain during WW2 and both the main leads aren't Chinese. I'm kind of intrigued because this would be by first time reading a danmei that is completely removed from a Chinese setting. I listened to the audio drama trailer and I gotta admit it is kind of weird to be getting that "danmei vibe" when applied to a non-Chinese setting.

[dragonsandphoenix]

if anon sees this, and i say this with all respect to meatbun and her fans, i think her work is a great litmus test and gateway into dark and toxic danmei: if you do want meatbun with good plot then read shui qian cheng's novels. shui qian cheng is one of the most popular danmei authors in the chinese fandom and there's a good reason for that. it's genuinely baffling that none of her works have been licensed honestly. if you want something with the same vibe as erha then read wu chang jie. if you want ancient political drama, read blood crown. shui qian cheng is actually most well-known for her modern 188 boy group series however.

my point is you can be a toxic danmei girly and have higher standards for plot and character writing.

here lemme art bait you

Love meatbun's ideas, not her execution, I've only read erha (haven't finished it) but I'm very confused on why ppl praise meatbun's writing so much. It feels like she just thought of whatever is cool and would impress ppl and just stuff it all into the book without bothering to stitch it all together in a coherent way, abandoned plot points are left like dangling threads, bad guys are cartoonishly evil, character development besides the mcs (and xue meng) feel very awkward, female characters are... something and the technicalities in the story is basically non existent if ranwan isn't the main focus, also don't like how she basically skipped the entirety of mo ran's 5 year journey and all his character growth bc chu wanning is not present during that time.

Meatbun is good at doing Meatbun. I actually love the way she writes. She’s definitely the author I binge the fastest (alongside Fei Tian Ye Xiang). I think the thing with Meatbun is she’s a massive fan of the genre and so uses a lot of tropes (especially toxic yaoi) so if you’re into that, you’re guaranteed to have a good time. But I guess if you’re not…

Although I do have to roll my eyes when people suggest she’s making some sweeping statement about the ills of sexual assault which is just not the case at all. Non con is her favourite trope and I think she’s very honest about that.

I’ve read all Meatbun’s novels up to their official English translations. I am slightly concerned by Yuwu because I didn’t really vibe with vol 6 and I’ve heard she can’t stick a landing which does concern me. On the other hand, I didn’t think a lot of the Meatbun hype is linked to how she’s kind of an outlier in that there’s really no other options for dog blood and that kind of smutty toxicity that’s been officially translated yet. There probably are authors that do it better, but they’re not accessible yet.

That her plots fall apart when you remove the romance I don’t think is necessarily a bad thing. It’s probably why she was never able to get adapted to the extent as mxtx. Like you can censor the shit out of those and it will still make sense, but if you censor Meatbun what is there?

[dragonsandphoenix]

[dragonsandphoenix]

[dragonsandphoenix]

Drink, Drank, Drunk aka 千杯 by Jingan Road No.1 is so good god damn. The audio drama adaptation is also great, particularly the Paris arc.

I love danmei. Shen Zhaowen and Jiang Mo you have my entire heart.

[dragonsandphoenix]

BDSM gets a bad rep as like a violent (male) dom pushing the boundaries of a reluctant (female) sub but in my experience it's a lot of subs with wildly elaborate fantasies screaming shit like "PUT MY ASS IN THE CHILI" while a new dom is like "Okay I think, we are reaching yellow for me,"

[dragonsandphoenix]

GOD I wish more Western books would take cues from danmei for how to write fantasy romance, danmei is like the only genre I’ve encountered that understands my ideal ratio of fluffy romance to body horror

[dragonsandphoenix]

fq dump :vv

[dragonsandphoenix]

Xianle Quartet is a top tier polyship not only because of the metric ton of emotional baggage (and the sheer volume of sexual tension and awakening possible between 3 virgins and an effectively celibate fertility god), but also simply because they're all from a country renowned for beauty and pretentiousness, therefore treating impossible beauty standards as the norm.

Xie Lian's canon internal thoughts consist of not infrequently calling people ugly. Can we blame him? He was raised constantly surrounded by and continues to surround himself with devastatingly attractive people. Feng Xin, canonically olive-skinned and handsome, archer's figure. Mu Qing, canonically delicate-appearing and pretty. Hua Cheng, growing up to be tall and savagely beautiful.

Meanwhile, Hua Cheng is a literal fashionista, decked out in every possible silver accessory at any given moment, jingling like a Christmas elf and fabulous while doing it. He throws money around on luxury items just because he can, and his taste is impeccable. Mu Qing straight up destroys his own statues if they're ugly, literally described as wearing luxurious robes that he probably made himself because no one could do it better. They're the divas of this operation. They're judging you, hard, and they want you to know it, so you will.

Xie Lian is the equivalent of the naturally beautiful friend who doesn't wash their face with anything but a bar of soap and comes out looking flawless. He needs absolutely zero fashion sense because he could wear a trash bag and people would think it looks high fashion. Feng Xin is the himbo friend who washes with 10-in-1, yet his skin glistens in the sun like an oiled up ancient greek olympian. He does a normal amount of working out and comes out shaped like Captain America. They're simply God's Favorite, so they don't need to try.

Basically, I picture them as the blindingly hot polycule walking around like the Cullens entering their high-school cafeteria. Hair blowing in an invisible wind. Throwing incredible amounts of shade in the communication array.

They're hot. They're judgmental. They're literally the Mean Girls.