dreadfulman

[dreadfulman]

A very enjoyable and not at all annoying thing about the userbase of this website is if you word something tangential to the actual point of your post poorly people who don't feel like taking anything you say in good faith won't ask for clarification but will skip directly to calling you an idiot who can't possibly know anything.

[dreadfulman]

I think very deliberately calling a trans man a "stupid bitch"/"dumb cunt"/"hysterical"/"whiney" (especially when that person never uses such language for cis men) is coded misgendering. Transmascs, I think you should get angrier about it.

I've noticed that when people don't know I'm intersex and think I'm just a regular cis guy, they will almost never use such language for me, even if they hate my guts. That changes the second they learn I'm intersex + have some "female" sex traits (uterus, & breasts notably), or if they believe I'm a trans man.

It is 100% targeted. You aren't overreacting.

[dreadfulman]

Might start tagging my post with transandronoir too from here on out. Wanna make it very clear that this all comes from a place of my color in my case and if someone cant habdle that, they never cared to have the talk on ravism to begin with and are a waste of my time and breath.

It would mean much of the same as transandrophobia, just specific to me as a black trans man.

I also say I may consider using transracialphobia for post where i feel transphobia is directly tied in with the racism, regardless of race

[dreadfulman]

The idea of framing oppression as "who has it worse vs who has it better based on a list of marginalized identities" is inherently flawed and foundationally anti-intersectional.

An intersectional lense is meant to be a tool to discuss the lives of marginalized people complexly and discuss the ways multiple systemic power structures that impact, oppress, and marginalize us simultaneously — not do math to figure out who is the most oppressed.

Kimberlé Crenshaw has talked extensively about how she dislikes the way intersectionality is misused to just add up different marginalizations and say "this demographic is the most oppressed group to exist". That is not the purpose of intersectionality in an academic context, nor is it the purpose of intersectionality in an applied context. It's a tool for analysis. A tool for understanding. A tool for giving language and voice to complex systemic issues while treating marginalized people like their entire selves.

It's not a tool to go "this demographic has it the worst ever" online to attempt to shut down other marginalized people.

It's like you people don't even know Kimberlè Crenshaw is also a foundational voice in the development of Critical Race Theory.

[dreadfulman]

Its rlly clear thats when someone says that non passing trans men are treated like woman that they dont fucking know shit and also have like, two mental ideas of a trans mans state of being

one: dressed up and dolled up perfectly confirming for cis womans standards of beauty so they "pass" as cis woman by being one of them perfectly obviously. if youre intersex you surely go through the effort to hide your traits every day at all times to everyone.

two: cis guy, usually white, skinny, haircut assumed, with a passing voice and facial hair and such. you of course always bind or have your definitely easily achievable top surgery and you never dress outside of gender conforming masculinity in your area.

they cannot fathom the spaces between about how trans men come across, especially because bigots aren't some monolith hivemind who all share the exact same perception of gender and how it should look

Which is annoying because many of them seem to be able to understand that space exist, but for some reason a sector of trans people dont qualify??

I wish those who aren't living our experiences would quit comparing it to the outline that society has, when the one of the issues trans people have is that we don't fit that outline.

[dreadfulman]

Reminder before you post here: There are trans people of color in this tag speaking on their experiences. Are you ignoring them before you make a genralized statement about what you think we go through due to what we were assigned at birth? Are you considering the naunce of the non-white, and honestly, non-american/uk experience? Are you making a shitty conparison to race where it's not needed? Are you ?

[dreadfulman]

The way people cant stoping bring up (perisex) cis men when talking about trans men. the way they can so mad that (perisex) cis men are the center of everything but they cant stop bringing them up to shut trans men and transmasc down. The way they swear up and down that we only want certain words because we want to be like a (perisex) cis guy and not because we are trans and having our own talk. Im so fucking sick of persex cis people ebing the default even in trand talks. We can stop talking about them actually. Shut the fuck up. Perisex cis guy number 7152 has nothing fucking to do with us.

[dreadfulman]

If you as a trans man, transmasc, or queer masculine person uses transandrophobia to post, please make sure to boost poc voices in this tag!! Same for anyone who regularly post or boost the tag really. It was coined by a poc and absolutely should have our voices heard and I feel as if many of us end up being shoved down or white washed by the way people speak in the tag.

And boost that its and intersection of the *fear* of men and how that can be weaponized at different class levels!!

Those are two very important points that I feel are being blurred in this tag nowadays and it would really I think help with the confusion

[dreadfulman]

I am absolutely dying to know how a black nonbinary multigender butch lesbian whos openly poly has privilege in this society on even a general level. absolutely dying to know. please tell me as someone who uses multiple pronouns openly, is black in america, is nonbinary and cannot ever transition into a state that meaningfully expresses my gender, has privilege.

Even if it didt exist I can barely buy groceries, how the fuck would I save enough for surgery. The government just cut cost thatll now cut out half my medical care. do you people not see this??

I am like.

Really tired of being called tme and told I have a privilege that litterally isnt there in this society.

I'm trying to work so hard to fight for our rights. Voting, Community work, Events, and even at those I am not always respected! And I still fucking come back and do the work because it's needed-

And then I get on here and people are telling me to acknowledge what a privilege it is to- what?

Like they don't even elaborate. they block me or insult me or they tell me about a type of experience that doesn't apply to me and demand i identify with it.

Tme tells you nothing about my experience except seemingly what direction Im transitioning in and that's disgusting.

typing tme trans people knowing that youre going to ask every non-binary person to sort themslves between tme and tma, and if they dont you do it for them, is disgusting.

[dreadfulman]

A sticking point I feel like a lot of people have with refusing to consider transandrophobia as a real thing, is that people automatically assume it's simply the opposite of transmisogyny. Which wouldn't be the worst assumption to make in the world if not for the fact that in some very out of touch spaces online, transmisogyny has stopped meaning "bigotry targeted towards transfems" and started meaning "transmascs specifically oppress transfems".

So of course, if you have stopped viewing transmisogyny as bigotry targeted towards transfems, and started seeing it as bigotry enacted by transmascs towards transfems, and see transandrophobia as just the opposite of transmisogyny; you assume Transandrophobia means "transfems oppress transmascs". Which is frustrating to have to keep shutting down as an assumption, because I can count on one hand the number of guys I've actually seen saying that, and run out of fingers and toes to count the "transandrobros" telling them to shut the hell up.

[dreadfulman]

Non passing trans men don't benefit from misogyny whatsoever, besides possibly on the internet. If they are seen as a woman in someone's eyes, especially legally, they do not benefit from it. If you are not seen as a man by society, regardless of if you are or not, you do not benefit from misogyny.

It's that fuckin simple.

[dreadfulman]

"The only logical conclusion if you acknowledge misogyny is real and think trans men are men is that trans men have male privilege over cis women."

This is entirely incorrect and is only logical insofar that your logic does not allow for an authentic trans manhood, and that trans men aren't also systemic targets of misogyny (regardless of whether you think that misogyny translates into transphobia because it's inherently misgendering).

There is "man" as an internal identity and then there is "man" as belonging to the dominant social class, and to believe that one must constitue the other is inherently transphobic, queerphobic, anti-transmasculine, anti-(trans)feminist, and anti-intersectional.

In order for the above statement to be true, you must not recognise an authentic manhood outside of the dominant cishetero social hegemony. That is, you must think (white) cishetero manhood is the only valid and authentic manhood, and that every other type of manhood seeks to emulate that, because that is the only type of manhood that truly begets male privilege.

Basically, if you think trans men MUST have male privilege otherwise they aren't men, then you do not believe that trans men are genuinely, authentically, actually men. If the only way for you to see trans men's manhood as authentic and real is if you can align it with dominant cishetero hegemonic manhood, then you are restricting what authenic manhood is and what trans men can be, and impliclty stating that a manhood outside of the dominant cishetero hegemony is not a true manhood, and therefore trans men are not real men.

The reason for this is that any manhood/masculinity outside of the dominant cishetero hegemonic ideal is PUNISHED because it is a deviation from that norm. Even within the standards set to uphold this restrictive type of manhood, it leaves room for those who would otherwise be set up to succeed, to actually fail (such as men of colour, queer men, disabled men, intersex men, etc).

Research about trans men & male privilege has shown that "...many participants perceived that they did not experience male privilege because they did not meet the required gender norms. These findings further support observations that masculinities and male privilege are based on perceived embodiment and performativity of the social construct of maleness."(x)

tl;dr: saying trans men MUST have male privilege because they are men means you have a reductive view of manhood and do not view trans manhood as authentic as it functions outside of hegemonic manhood. It is transphobic.

[dreadfulman]

I think a lot of people who make mpreg jokes do it because they consider pregnancy something that 'tames' a person and 'knocks them down a peg'. They think pregnancy is something that marks a person as inherently submissive. Getting pregnant means being submissed to them. They also think that male pregnancy is a feminist concept not because it recognises trans and intersex men as men, but because something 'feminine' and 'submissive' is forced upon a man. Because that's what pregnancy is to them - something that is done to a person. They think pregnancy is emasculating. Remember this meme?

To people like this it's a feminist line because a woman dominated a man by impregnating him. This is an incredibly fucked up and misogynistic view of pregnancy, and it also reveals the shallow understanding of feminism a lot of people have: masculinity is dominance and femininity is submission, so the idea of a man in a feminine position is inherently feminist, because he is submissed. Especially if he was put in this position by a woman, because then the switch is complete - the woman is the dominant one by forcing him into something.

And yes, I said the idea of a man in a feminine position is inherently feminist to them, NOT the man himself. The feminine position he is in makes him an object to be viewed and discussed, not a subject with thoughts and beliefs. The pregnant man is not a feminist, he's a feminist concept. That, I think, is the core of the problem with mpreg jokes - to people who make them, a pregnant man is an idea, a symbol, a fictional situation, instead of a real human being. They ignore the existance of actual men that can get pregnant in favour of the idea of them, because the first one has agency, and the second one has no agency (because he exists in their head). To people like that, pregnant men = blorbos jokingly impregnated by defying biology, or blorbos in ABO AUs, not the living, breathing trans and intersex men. They imagine pregnant men for many reasons: as a sexual fantasy, to make a joke, to declaw and tame them, but never to actually consider what it's like for real life men with uteruses. Pregnancy is just another situation they can put their blorbos in, not a real thing some men go through. So there's no space in their minds for the discrimination we face in gynecological and prenatal care, or the fear of being forcibly impregnated as a way to detransition us. Pregnant men are theoretical to them, just like catboys, so they get annoyed when we remind them that we exist and shoo us away claiming they're not talking about us.

[dreadfulman]

its like fucked up that people keep comparing a term coined by a tmoc to white womens entitlement right

[dreadfulman]

I think we should talk about how one of the core aspects of transandrophobia is ableism. They do not think transmascs are confused girls, they think transmascs are disabled girls. The rhetoric of ROGD and similar revolves around the concept of young autistic and mentally ill “girls” transitioning instead of dealing with their disorders. They lack many friends due to their disabilities, so they easily are “preyed upon” by older transmascs (because the theory is not that trans women make girls trans, it is that other trans men convince them. This is the entire basis of the “social contagion” of transgender identity amongst people AFAB).

The stance that transmascs are “just” treated as “confused” refuses to acknowledge the actual goal of refusing autonomy to what they perceive as girls who are too disabled to know who they are or what they want. It is not nearly as trivial as people make it out to be.

[dreadfulman]

The way some people on here say shit like "status quo hater doesn’t think transmisogyny is real and THAT'S why it's ok to harass it" is so stupid. You can literally just search #transmisogyny on my blog and immediately see that they're just making shit up about me bc they hate intersex people.

[dreadfulman]

People who say shit like "oh all foids- I mean pussies- I mean theyfabs- I mean bitches- I mean transmascs make is whiny ukelele music meanwhile transfems make EPIC music" piss me off so much but also. Do they know that ElyOtto! was transmasculine. The guy who made Sugarcrash. THAT Sugarcrash. One of the most viral trans-made hyperpop songs from this decade (the 20s). That hit Rolling Stone and Billboard rankings thrice.

ElyOtto is transmasc nonbinary. If you didn't know, now you do! Stop doing this wacky girls vs boys shit. You look like children. We can all make cool music.