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Forgot to reply to this, but yeah, this also spins the choice of centering LeBlanc and Jarvan IV for that Runeterra promo pic in a whole other light. Last time you could argue it was a bit of a callback to pre-2014 lore where she infamously impersonated him to start conflicts to promote Swain; now tho, we got very different lore and context.

As it is tho, because of how redesigned LeBlanc is now, he actually resembles her more post-Fortiche-design rework. Which is funny cos in-game her hair color is actually not the same as the cinematic, it’s bluish. And Jarvan’s in-game model is also bluish lol

I think Jarvan IV’s design is evergreen, but like with Talon, maybe he’ll get another redesign to cement what he’s suppose to look like ‘currently’

LeBlanc & Jarvan IV - Legends of Runeterra Promo Art

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(I’m getting into my Hazbin Hotel theory crafting hours good lord)

Prefacing this. I saw some of the Season 2 leaks. It prompted me to think about something. That which was leaked has nothing to do with Zestial and Carmilla - it simply opened the door to a certain possibility.

Again, I’m warning everyone here, I talk freely about some of the content of one leaked episode. I won’t say which characters are actually involved, but I have to give context for what is revealed is possible in the episode, to give context for my theory.

It has nothing to do, and doesn’t affect, the current canon that Sinners cannot reproduce. I’m just theorycrafting in that direction cos who doesn’t want actual-daddy Zestial, right?

Anyway, LAST WARNING. Nothing will be spoilered after the cut.

In the leaked episode, it’s revealed that Sinners in the Pride ring can be contacted by living humans, via occult means.

In retrospect, I guess this makes sense cos Sinners are considered demons - and you can contact demons and the deceased on earth in most cultures and in general pop supernatural culture.

But I think a lot of people just never thought it was a possibility. Generally the canon is Sinners can’t leave the Pride ring right? And only Hellborn demons have been shown to go to earth.

From the leak tho, it seems remote contact is possible. Prolly not officially allowed but possible.

So.

What I see is the sudden possibility that for some reason, somehow, Carmilla could have actually communicated with and known Zestial even before she ever died and went to Hell.

Like imagine for some reason. Carmilla decides she has to make ‘a deal with the devil’, and for some reason the demon that answered was Zestial.

Ok the rest of this is mainly fluffy headcanoning with literal regard for what canonically is possible. But for example, Zestial does greet Carmilla with “Enchanted as always”. And it would be so poetic for a demon to be ‘enchanted’ by a mortal, especially a dancer.

On the flipside, if somehow Zestial can actually go to the human realm in a limited fashion, it would be fitting to show off his power level being another level compared to other Overlords. Like even if it’s briefly, if he could leave the prison everyone else is stuck in, maybe that’s why he has that kind of reputation.

And yes, I’m suggesting that IF that was possible, and IF there’s some kinda loophole about Sinners and living humans reproducing, then there’s the possibility that Zestial could have fathered Clara and Odette, due to having an affair with Carmilla when she was alive.

Like being impregnated by a demon, is a common trope/supernatural story. Granted the Sinners are both demons and actually dead so it’s not the same as maybe a Hellborn having children with a human, since Hellborn are technically alive and living but just in Hell.

Still, Sinners/Overlords are still considered demons, and demons hybrids with humans are known as Cambions.

Btw there was actually 19th century debate about how Cambions can be possible cos Succubi and Incubuses can’t actually reproduce, so they’re actually transporting genetic material between multiple partners like a horny pollinating bee. This was actually was discussed in great detail, in 19th century theology debates.

For obvious reasons, I don’t want to think about it being that complicated if a Sinner demon is involved. But if the restriction is like an aura around the Pride Ring or Hell itself, so if a Sinner demon managed to get out and you know got busy outside, maybe it becomes possible to have children.

But this is the little theory I’ve been thinking about. I don’t know why and how Carmilla could contact a demon, but I’m tickled by the idea of Zestial answering her, and being ‘enchanted’ with her, and this affair resulting in the twins being born somehow.

And that just simply doing this was what damned not only Carmilla’s soul, but also her daughters for simply being part demon/Sinners already by birth. Cos the Carmines seem so level-headed and nice, that it comes up, why were all three damned to Hell.

Especially her daughters, who seem so young, and not cannibals. But granted, Hell doesn’t have a minimum age limit for sin, since young children who were prolly starving and forced to cannibalise, still went to hell. So even if the girls were sort-of involved with whatever prolly illegal business Carmilla was involved in in life as minors, it was still considered a sin.

Still I just like the idea and possibility that the whole family turns out more related than we thought. Like Carmilla choosing not to tell them, Zestial respecting that choice but still being close to them and protecting them the moment they descended into hell, yada yada.

Anyway, needed to get this theory worm out of my hood. Do what you will with it.

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for kiss prompt: Anbai except it's during Guilty Gear X and the kiss is more somber than anything else :)

Clinging Hard and Clinging Fast

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Wonder how that happened...hmmmm

a mystery indeed.

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Because I'm both a big fan of Talon and slowly getting back into LoL/Arcane lore (which hopefully means I'll get back to my Arcane rewrite), I gotta ask. Where's the theory that Jarvan IV is LeBlanc's son, and where else can I find Talon is a SwainBlanc child theories, plus this about Jarvan? I need and want to know more.

(Also this has no real bearing on anything, but since Swain and Talon are among my favorites, I just feel that in a decent reveal/meeting scenario, Swain would admit to Talon that he would have named him Roland. Again, no bearing but I just gotta get part of that wholesomeness off my chest. Addendum, visualizing Talon and Jarvan as half brothers is gonna be my new favorite thing.)

For Jarvan IV being LeBlanc's son, this was actually hinted at since Legends of Runeterra, which gave both LeBlanc and Jarvan voicelines where J4 gets more and more confused over why he finds LeBlanc familiar, and LoR LeBlanc taunts him about it.

This gets brought up again with LeBlanc's new lines in-game when versus a Jarvan IV. This video lines up LeBlanc's new voicelines and J4's LoR lines (cos he didn't get new LoL ones) right at the start of the video (yeah I know the thumbnail but this video's actually really good to hear the conversation the characters seem to be having in their disjointed in-game voicelines):

For Talon potentially being a SwainBlanc child, that was really a crack theory that floated around maybe reddit and the old LoL forums way back in the pre-2018s. It mainly sprung up when Talon was first introduced, since just having Beatrice and thorns from the Black Rose in his comic was the only bits of lore we actually had on him besides his affiliation with the Du Couteaus. There might have been some speculation that leaving Talon with Marcus was planned but, honestly if there was, it would've prolly be on the old LoL forums that were frozen and deleted back in 2020.

Which is a crying shame, a LOT was lost with the LoL forums deletion from the community side. Fan-theories, all kinds of art, fan OCs, writing etc. And we could even directly write to the writers (heck a lot of SwainBlanc stuff was supported by Swain's lore writer directly answering questions and being coy about stuff in the forum).

The current run of Talon being their kid came out cos of his Wild Rift model giving another new face, that's completely different from his LoL model and also from his last appearance in the Katarina comic. The thing is that in normal gameplay, you can't see Talon's full face, at least not in his default skin. So it was when someone removed the mask on his model and we see Talon now sports basically Swain's eyebrows.

This thread mainly was where people started comparing their Wild Rift models and edits of younger Swain with his black hair and well, the resemblance got uncanny!

Considering both is based on their newest models in Wild Rift, it does feel that the WR design team was doing this very deliberately, especially for Talon.

There's also a bit of a parallel going where in-story, Swain's basically became Katarina's adopted father cos she's loyal to him and he exploded her bio-dad Marcus to protect her. Something which LeBlanc taunts Katarina about in in-game voicelines.

Meanwhile, Talon works for the Black Rose instead cos he's at loggerheads with Katarina about where their loyalty lies, and really, Talon being Swain's son would be fitting, cos LeBlanc sending Swain's own son to kill him is the kind of hater energy she'd have. As is Swain completely missing or dismissing his own son in favor of Katarina who he trusts enough to task with killing Swain if Raum takes over.

The drama writes itself basically.

ALSO, now this is about the ancient lore, pre Swain's 2018 rework. In the old lore, Swain and Jarvan IV were in fact mortal enemies. It's heavily implied that J4 is the one who broke Swain's leg and left him with the limp. Swain tried to ambush J4 at J4's League Judgement scenario, which is basically like trying to kill someone within the UN, and the UN actually has mages that can kill you for that but you don't care cos you HATE the other guy even more.

With J4 representing Demacia and Swain representing Noxus, the two of them were THE original representatives of the two nations' rivalry and duking it out constantly, way before Garen and Darius took on that posterboy roles later.

They even had a cinematic of them fighting each other for the Dominion game mode (the cinematic surprisingly was never released except airing on Twitch, so you won't find it on LoL's official YouTube).

Riot this year even reposted old artwork (actually a fan repaint of older artwork) which showed the then iconic clash between Jarvan IV and Swain for the Dominion map just like the cinematic. Except it's actually LeBlanc pretending to be Jarvan IV but no time to get into THAT old subplot in the old lore.

Basically what I'm saying, is that them HATING EACH OTHER was part of their lore and part of their entire deal. But when Swain got reworked, his entire rivalry with Jarvan IV evaporated and went into him now having beef with Irelia and Ionia, and barely with Demacia or J4.

This actually hurt Jarvan IV lore more than it did Swain, cos Swain got a whole bunch of new in-depth lore, Jarvan got zilch. Hell, in old lore, J4 was technically not even really him in several key moments, cos it was LeBlanc pretending to be him to stir up trouble.

But you know what? LeBlanc being Jarvan IV's mom, would actually bring J4 back into the lore drama, and give him significance. Cos it gives a reason for Swain, who we know is actually kinda hung up on LeBlanc in a borderline sexual harasser way, to actually hate Jarvan. Cos that might actually get to Swain, that she had a kid with someone else. Even if that was really a clone but at this point I don't even know how we differentiate between LeBlanc clones, seriously.

Plus we should note, this is a really interesting way the lore was reworked from LeBlanc kidnapping J4, using his blood to pretend to be J4 and power up Sion, all to help Swain become Grand General - and now we have not only Swain and LeBlanc being enemies, but poor Jarvan, is now a sidestory to them at best, and instead of being J4, LeBlanc's now J4's mom, possibly.

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James Inglehart wrote this. The fact he voices Zestial is cracking me up. Fuck it, I take this as Zestial’s origin story, vigilante murdering spider let’s go.

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“And Zestial.”

Still loving how Carmilla always includes Zestial in her priorities. She REALLY wants to keep her ‘family’ together.

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Pre-2014, both Swain and LeBlanc were actually allies and Swain was an ex-Black Rose member, who deliberately came back and contacted LeBlanc once she became Matron of the Black Rose. This meeting was shown in LeBlanc’s League Judgement, and it’s heavily implied that they had a history together, as LeBlanc reached out to touch him and was upset over what Swain did to get his current position in the Noxian army (this includes gaining the ability to transform into a giant raven powers) when he left the Black Rose. He contacted her to ask her to “join him in fellowship” and to take back what was theirs, as well as saying how everything he’s done so far was “for us”.

League Judgements are actually recreations of memories by the Summoners to gauge the champion’s intentions and personality, with the chosen memory usually the main reason they’re even joining the League of Legends. The Summoner evaluating LeBlanc was actually play-acting as Swain in this memory and he mocked LeBlanc a bit for showing her vulnerability regarding Swain as he caressed her face as Swain once the evaluation was done.

So LeBlanc’s League Judgements established she and Swain knew each other in their early days in the Black Rose, and LeBlanc was quite tender towards him and heavily implied to be in love with him, and her main motivation for even joining the League was to help him.

Should also mention that Marcus Du Couteau was said to arrive at the end of LeBlanc’s meeting with Swain, which she was not happy about as she felt Marcus wasn’t the same as ‘them’, but Swain felt he would be useful.

Fast forward to when Talon was introduced, with that specific comic showing that both Swain and LeBlanc were keeping tabs on him, that would really likely be more cos of how Talon was investigating Marcus’ disappearance by then in the old lore.

However, cos of how vague the ages of Swain and LeBlanc were - Swain always looked old or decrepit; while LeBlanc uses illusions and in the old lore the title of Matron is passed down from one woman to the next and they use illusions to look the same - there was the chance that they were more closely related to Talon.

And cos Talon’s name literally refers to the ‘talon’ of a bird and Swain turns into a giant raven so thematically, there was potentially something. Yes this is a weak sauce link but this is old lore, we make do.

Add in how Talon basically has no lore, literally lived in and was found by Marcus in a sewer, it opened up the possibility he was more relevant in some way by being related to the two champs who are featured in his intro comic. Not to mention later he turned up in another illustrated panel in the Journal of Justice observing when Swain became Grand General.

Buuuut, in 2018 when Swain got reworked, something offhandedly mentioned kinda jossed even the vague theories. Cos turns out that Swain is only in his late 30s in old lore.

Like I dunno wtf Riot was smoking, but apparently when they designed Swain, he was just meant to look weakened and mysterious but really only at most in his late 30s, but between his limp and voice, everything made players believe he was at least in his 60s. So him being Talon’s father, while not impossible, became highly unlikely. Cos LeBlanc was likely around the same age as Swain too, if not a little younger.

So in old lore, nada, impossible. But in new lore…

Swain’s reworked actually made him older, as he’s in his late 50s now. Leblanc is literally 1000 and according to her lines with Jarvan IV, it’s heavily implied she or her clones, may have been his mother or pretended to be his mother. So her/her clone having kids just for greater scheme, is actually like a method she would do.

In Swain’s backstory, he crossed paths with LeBlanc when he was younger and was manipulated by her into executing his parents. But even more, his lore writer implied that he and LeBlanc had a further relationship, as they were together at a high society ball which is where Swain ‘killed’ her.

Also his lore writer mentioned he knew what was implied about them in their old lore and was actually very shippy about them in Swain’s rework, hence his voicelines that all flirt with LeBlanc. Tho we find out since LeBlanc’s rework that it’s way more one-sided on his end (or not, turns out in her short story more than half of all her sister clones were ‘merciful’ towards Swain).

Anyway, Talon then got his face rework AGAIN, in Wild Rift, and he distinctly looks like Swain, especially in Swain skins that make him look younger. With hair tone kinda similar to LeBlanc’s. So now the theory has returned and it actually is more plausible than before (yes, even with LeBlanc clearly hating Swain’s guts, because it’s implied they did have a fling when Swain was younger and even more, her own clones are all individuals and more than half were soft on Swain at one point in time).

Add in how Talon still basically has no lore about his origin; but NOW is attached to the Black Rose and LeBlanc’s pet assassin. And you know, I can totally see her use Swain’s own son to kill him. She would be petty like that.

So there you go, the longer explanation about the theory lol. It’s cracked, but I’m very amused how it gradually got more plausible over time.

Look with how LeBlanc clones work and the hints that LeBlanc is freaking Jarvan's mother, there are no limits anymore. This could actually be true IMO.

AND the theory goes back to 2011 cos this was Talon's original release comic that hinted both LeBlanc and Swain were aware of. and possibly connected to him.

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Screw it, extra big creature art dump for today

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After a long day

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Look with how LeBlanc clones work and the hints that LeBlanc is freaking Jarvan's mother, there are no limits anymore. This could actually be true IMO.

AND the theory goes back to 2011 cos this was Talon's original release comic that hinted both LeBlanc and Swain were aware of. and possibly connected to him.

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Because I saw people questioning Swain's romantic interest in LeBlanc...

So here's an 8 year old podcast from just before Swain's VGU launch in 2018, where Riot localisers explicitly reveal the new story element (back then) that Swain is romantically interested in LeBlanc from the get go, with even specific citations of which lines have romantic intent (hint it includes the one talking about LeBlanc's 'flower)

Full downloads of the transcription file with timestamps is available on the video description. And here's the full translated bit where the podcasters start talking about Swain and LeBlanc's then new relationship in the reworked lore:

It ends with the localiser laughing wistfully "Why is he being so sweet (to LeBlanc)?"

The story can change after 8 years, and it's more blatantly one-sided on Swain's part than ever before (OR IS IT, considering we now know there is a substantial number of sister-clones who managed to argue to let him live when he was younger); but to say he never was flirting with LeBlanc in his voicelines from the moment his VGU went live?

HA!

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🥀🐦‍⬛❤️

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There’s a potential angsty backstory revealed in the new LeBlanc color story, including her past with Swain. In Everywhere, and Everyone, we get some insight into how LeBlanc’s ‘sister clones’ work.

They’re independent individuals. There’s a ‘main’ LeBlanc (or at least the LeBlanc narrating the story believes she’s the ‘true’ LeBlanc), and can have differing opinions.

We learn it was because several of them convinced the rest that Swain was no longer a threat at some point, that he wasn’t killed earlier. The ‘main’ LeBlanc in the story blames them for their situation.

But we also learn something interesting. The ‘lesser’ sisters seem to be more emotional and respond to genuine kindness; or at least the ‘true’ LeBlanc believes she’s has more self-control.

Now here’s my theory of how this all could connect to what happened between LeBlanc and Swain when he was younger.

Quick context, when Darkwill tired of LeBlanc and the Black Rose, LeBlanc decided to ‘die’ and go underground so she won’t be actively hunted anymore. To do that, it’s stated she manipulated Swain at the time, by revealing his parents were part of the Black Rose, so he being a super nationalist and loyalist to Darkwill at the time, executed them for treason with no hesitation. AND executed LeBlanc the Matron of the Black Rose for good measure.

Now here’s where it gets a bit strange. Because Swain’s lore writer stated that Swain hadn’t executed LeBlanc with his parents, but that he was with her at a waltz together and he killed her personally then and there; not in a public execution.

Here’s currently my angsty theory: The ‘sister’ clone who was the one manipulating and prolly seducing Swain at the time had truly been charmed by him. To the point she had successfully argued for him to be left alive after he fulfilled his function to ‘kill’ the Black Rose publicly. This clone continued to have a relationship with Swain, hence why they were attending a waltz together. However she hadn’t realised that Swain had figured out she was connected to the Black Rose herself, and that he would kill her himself that night.

We don’t know if clones share anything - memories or mentions etc. They actually appear to be very independent of each other. To Swain, he seems to think the LeBlanc he see ‘return’ after the one he killed are the same person - but it’s likely he killed the only one who potentially loved him.

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Ok, let’s see what else she’s do-

Oh.

Oh no.

WAIT IS THIS WHY SAHN-UZAL HAS RED HAIR LIKE A KNOCK-OFF RADAHN?!

Fuckit, Swain’s Mohg now too.

Also here’s Naomi’s work as Miquella.

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Oh you don't understand the deeper fuckery that went on at the bit with Swain 'revealing the conspiracy'. Cos that was LeBlanc's plan all long. She WANTED him to reveal the conspiracy and got him to execute his parents (and her) so she could go dark and into the shadows while Swain thought he did a good job.

In fact part of the plan is implied she seduced him, and planted the clues to his parents being part of the Black Rose.

But it gets screwier, cos we learn LeBlanc DIDN'T 'die' from the execution, cos she was still with Swain dancing with him at a high society waltz. And THEN he killed her with his bare hands as they were dancing!

Then when Raum shows him that she was still alive, he didn't get angry or scared, he got 'intrigued' aka horny af.

And NOW in present day, what happens?

She screams at him on sight and seethes, meanwhile he is so pleased to have her attention and keeps flirting with her, completely unbothered by her rage.

These screenshots don't do justice to the amount of thirst you can hear from his voice when he talks to/about LeBlanc.

Meanwhile LeBlanc is such deep denial of her own obsession and interest in Swain that she doesn't even notice she lost the plot when she redirected her entire cult to killing Swain, over her actual job of keeping the undead big bad suppressed.

And she hates herself for admitting she admired something Swain did.

And getting all her 'sister' doppelgangers together to just talk about one man. The entire time. Just hyper-focused on him. Yeah, a little sus with that obsession there!

So in summary, LeBlanc seduced a young noblemen into executing his parents and her in a plot; but possibly kept posing as whoever she was pretending to be to keep fucking him. Goes to a waltz with him where he finds out or reveals he knows who she is and kills her.

Then she plots to get her ex-boytoy killed in Ionia, but forgets to double-tap, and he winds up getting a powerful demon and he finds out she's still alive, but is 'intrigued' that she's alive.

Meanwhile, she completely fails to notice ex-boytoy lived, gets couped in a single night, tried releasing a gremlin designed to kill him but it ate her handlers instead. Now in-lore and in-game, she rages at the sight of him and ex-boytoy, still missing that MILF energy, keeps whimsically flirting with her like they're just exes with a chance to get back together.

And she is so massively tilted, she forgot her own original masterplan, to pour all her energy into killing her ex-boytoy; who she can't even admit to herself she admires in some way.

Yeah they really do need to fuck, for different reasons. She needs to fuck Swain out of her mind so she can actually focus on her actual job; and Swain is gonna die or be corrupted from Raum at some point so he's shooting his shot and I wish him all the best.

on the real the funniest thing about vladimir and leblanc is that when they first meet they get so deep into their freak shit that they literally rot flowers and turn food into ash and make wine become undrinkable and they're both like a million years old and presumably have had limit experiences beyond imagination but for some reason their reaction to swain is "i mean i can't NOT fuck him"

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Omg the situation in-game when you line-up LeBlanc and Swain’s voicelines and how they actually interact now is kinda hilarious.

She absolutely hates Swain’s guts and is seething the moment she sees him.

Meanwhile Swain is just happy for her attention.

Leblanc continues to seethe and be passive aggressive around him.

Meanwhile Swain is unbothered, continuing to flirt with her all through it.

And of course the infamous line that they’re “enemies with benefits”

Which btw, considering how infamous it is, I’m surprise Riot didn’t include a SPECIFIC response to this line, but unfortunately budget of an indie company /s

However her generic taunt response of tossing him into a pit for his horny also works lol.

Some may have wanted LeBlanc to flirt back, but honestly, this whole dynamic is actually much funnier and interesting to me.

Aside from Mordekaiser (for understandable reasons), Swain is the ONLY other person who causes LeBlanc to raise her voice and exhibit more emotion. While she rages and seethes, Swain is talking to her completely normally, even with affection.

There’s also the larger contrast between the two, where LeBlanc obviously doesn’t trust ANYONE except herself and is very defensive as a result. Meanwhile Swain actually once had to depend on other people and does have true friends, people he trusts (Darius, Draven, Katarina) and fostered true bonds and loyalty with. I’ll get into that discussion at a later date.