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I feel a fake out self-sacrifice from Will incoming in s5. There's just something about those fake out deaths in LOTR that got the Duffers thinking it's the most wonderful trope in existence, and they can't stop using it to save their lives. I'm eating it up every time, ngl.

It would add the maximum amount of drama, no way they haven't at least considered it at one point or another. Add to that the romantic subplot, and you've got the screaming-crying-Emmy-winning scene.

Will actually dying? Never going to happen.

i know there’s nothing wrong being a casual fan of something , but lately with the s5 teaser and ga waking up for s5 i’ve been seeing so many videos on tiktok and yt about who is most likely to die and they always put will as most likely lol

like do you not understand how storylines work it would make no sense for his character

he has been sad, tortured and left out for 4 seasons like he’s not dying on top of this

and no more kill the gays trope pls i’m tired

also to quote noah “something went right for him”

and the duffers also said that his arc ties it all together- him becoming a man

IT WOULD LITERALLY MAKE NO SENSE

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Changed my pfp. Don't be alarmed, I'm not going through my goth phase. I just like this one better.

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That's my interpretation as well. I think Mike is questioning some of their interactions, and the prospect of Will reciprocating is terrifying to him. There's no need to open that scary can of worms if the person you're in love with is unavailable, right? Now, if there's a slight glimmer of hope, then what? He's constantly fighting with himself and going from "I really want this" to "what happens if I get it".

He was clearly flustered at the airport once he saw that painting, and then tried to play it cool when he "learned" it wasn't for him. That would also explain why he was so frustrated at Rink-o-Mania. He said it himself, he was acting like "a self-pitying idiot".

I saw this post a while ago, where someone pointed out to me, that mike interprets every fight he has with will romantically.

So, I was thinking about this, and yes! He always pushes back harshly “We’re friends. We’re friends!” “It’s not my fault you don’t like girls!” which to me, either means he knows Will is in love with him, which this reaction would then just be cruel OR there's some feelings there from his side too and because of his internalised homophobia he deals with it in this way.

Viewing it from the perspective of a closeted gay/bi guy, he feels the need to emphasise a heteronormative perspective on his relationship with will, while actually he is the one viewing it from a homosexual lens. He feels this need to point out not only his own "straightness" but also Will's presumed straightness. He views and experiences every fight he has with Will romantically, similar to a fight you'd have with a significant other.

This is why the rinkomania fight remains the best byler proof to date because “We’re friends. We’re friends!” didn't make any sense! Because, yes mike, obviously... Will was talking about y'alls relationship as friends... This could mean Mike is aware of his feelings for Will but is actively surpressing them. Which can be interpreted in one of two ways to me personally, namely Mike thinks Will is straight and his feelings are unrequited or maybe Mike is scared of Will reciprocating?

I feel like that's an overlooked perspective. Especially considering the time in which the story takes place, the 80s, during the aids crisis. Most bylers tend to assume Mike isn't aware of Will's feelings but what if he is? What if he has known this whole time, or maybe since some time before the rain fight? Or atleast prior to season 4?

In this case scenario, what if Mike is scared of is own and Will's feelings. Not only having the fear of whether Will would reciprocate but also what if will reciprocates. Maybe both could be equally scary... Doubts about what if Will is actually straight and he misread the situation but also maybe he is gay and they do indeed both like eachother and where does that leave them.

Mike having grown up in a homophobic small town, growning up hearing and reading about gay people dying in the tens of thousands to aids which was often referred to as the "gay plague", the government doing very little to adress the situation, no gay marriage obviously. The idea he wouldn't want neither himself nor Will to be gay, doesn't seem far-fetched to me.

So yeah the idea that his internalised homophobia (which stems from fear) extends to not only himself but also the person he's in love with (aka 'he isn't gay, because I don't want him to gay, because then I have to face my own feelings) is a perspective I haven't seen many other byler shippers talk about.

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I feel like some people just struggle with pattern recognition or enjoy mental gymnastics too much

I feel like these images make things way simpler than people think they are

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Look at them go

I'm so obsessed with Romania'22 ESC performance, I can't stop rewatching it and singing the song.

This is such a bop I wish I was in the audience that night OMG!

What a diva. The moves? The quick change? The dancers? Perfection

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I'm still not over this

Hola mi bebé-bé hola mi bebé-bé llámame llámame

I'm so obsessed with Romania'22 ESC performance, I can't stop rewatching it and singing the song.

This is such a bop I wish I was in the audience that night OMG!

What a diva. The moves? The quick change? The dancers? Perfection

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I realized I was bi when I was 30. I thought that everyone find women hot. Just a fact of life. That turned out not to be true lmao

I've been running from girlkisser allegations since high school, and they finally caught up with me I guess

people desperately trying to make arguments that a 14 year old kid couldn't ever be oblivious about his own feelings meanwhile I didn't really know I was queer until I was 20 years old and every time I had gay thoughts™ I repressed them and convinced myself it didn't mean anything lmfao

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Maybe the real Gone Girl was Will Byers all along

I can’t believe that Will Byers kidnapped and possessed himself!!!

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I'm so obsessed with Romania'22 ESC performance, I can't stop rewatching it and singing the song.

This is such a bop I wish I was in the audience that night OMG!

What a diva. The moves? The quick change? The dancers? Perfection

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Mike still could be present as a big part of this storyline, by the way. He's the one Will trusts and feels closest to in the friend group. He could be the supportive best friend Will could confide in. Instead, Mike is established as a romantic interest and possibly an important part of Will coming to terms with his identity. Not a simple crush, but someone Will wants to spend his life with.

So, what we have is a character (whose life is just the never-ending series of unfortunate events) stuck in a situation that could either end in another heartbreak or a potential "happy end". My bet is on the latter.

The argument Will's unrequited love storyline exists simply to show that he's gay is still one of the weirdest takes I've seen in this fandom. That's just basically stating the writers can't write a queer character for shit.

There are a million other ways to write this specific arc, and I do honestly doubt that the people writing this show would be that lazy. They do know what subtlety is, and we've seen great examples of subtextual writing in the show when it comes to Will. Will's (potential at that point) queerness exists in the narrative since s1e1. They weren't exactly coy with it. Sure, they could have still used a crush or a love interest to explicitly state that Will is gay by showing and not telling. It's quite simple, actually: let him look at a guy in his class at the beginning of s4. There are countless ways to use good blocking to show romantic interest in someone. Queerness established. Hell, let him be awkward around the guy to drive the point home if needed. Done. No further emotional torture needed.

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The argument Will's unrequited love storyline exists simply to show that he's gay is still one of the weirdest takes I've seen in this fandom. That's just basically stating the writers can't write a queer character for shit.

There are a million other ways to write this specific arc, and I do honestly doubt that the people writing this show would be that lazy. They do know what subtlety is, and we've seen great examples of subtextual writing in the show when it comes to Will. Will's (potential at that point) queerness exists in the narrative since s1e1. They weren't exactly coy with it. Sure, they could have still used a crush or a love interest to explicitly state that Will is gay by showing and not telling. It's quite simple, actually: let him look at a guy in his class at the beginning of s4. There are countless ways to use good blocking to show romantic interest in someone. Queerness established. Hell, let him be awkward around the guy to drive the point home if needed. Done. No further emotional torture needed.

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This is still absolutely crazy to me that they just decided to ignore the part of the story they don't like.

This very relevant to season 5 post was removed within minutes because it was getting reported. Redditors are in for a rude awakening when they realize that the painting lie has to payoff and Mike has to find out about it. How will it affect the story? Well if we pretend it doesn't exist and block out everything that reminds us of it, then it won't have to affect anything, right? Right???

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Why Byler needs to be endgame for Will's romantic arc to be satisfying

I'm a firm believer in Byler endgame but I wanted to talk about the people who say they'd be happy as long as Will gets "any guy" as his boyfriend in the end (I see mostly GA members saying this)

If we look at the main cast of characters, almost all of them have been in a relationship. We already know Robin is getting into a relationship with Vickie in S5. And as much as I find Vickie adorable (I love Amybeth McNulty) she is a minor character that is solely brought in to serve as Robin's love interest. They have a total of 3 scenes together in Season 4, and in one of those scenes they don't even speak to each other.

The only other character that gets limited screen time with their love interest is Dustin (we never physically see him and Suzie together since their relationship is long-distance).

Lucas, however, is given plenty of screen time on his relationship development with Max, and Mike is given lots of screen time on his relationship with El (even though in S2/S4 they were physically apart most of the season). Then of course we have Nancy who has been given lots of screen time with both her love interests. Joyce and Hopper meanwhile were a slowburn, and only just got together in S4, but we've gotten to see them developing in their relationship every season.

Will, unlike Robin (the only other canon queer character) was introduced in Season 1. Will is a main character (and arguably the main character of the final season) and a lot of his character's plot in S4 was to do with his (believed) unrequited feelings for his best friend, Mike.

Will, whose Season 5 emotional arc (which includes him coming to terms with his sexuality) is said by the Duffers to "tie the whole show together."

So if the show gave Will a half-baked love interest in S5 would that really feel like a satisfying ending? Of course not.

The idea that all of the main cast (except Dustin) would get to be with another main cast member except the two canonical queer characters is frankly appalling. It tells the audience that Robin and Will's love stories don't matter as much. And further it sends a message that queer people should be happy to get "anyone." Because that's literally what the GA wants for Will, they think Will could be with any queer guy and be happy; like would they really say the same for any of the other main characters?

For example with Lucas, if him and Max didn't get together in the end would anyone say, oh that's fine Lucas could be happy with any girl? Absolutely not. It wouldn't be a satisfying ending given all the development between Lucas and Max.

Will deserves a love story on an equivalent scale to the other leading characters on the show. Him being accepted by Mike for his sexuality is the bare minimum, it's what everyone already expects to happen. But there's a reason the painting lie wasn't revealed, there's a reason the California plot almost solely focused on Will and Mike's relationship, there's a reason they were standing together in the final shot of S4. All this setup only for there to be no payoff would be atrocious writing, and lead to a dissatisfying romantic arc for Will.

The ending needs to prove Will's beliefs wrong. He will not just get "any" guy, he will get the boy he loves, his feelings will be reciprocated and as Noah said "something will finally work out" for him in the end.

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Also friendly reminder that season 4 was supposed to be the final season and got split into two, so what we currently have (season 4 vol2) is an incomplete arc and Will's POV (which is as unreliable as you can get when it comes to Mike). Even if the writers' room noticed the backlash from vol2, it doesn't mean they just scurried away to rewrite the final season. They know how that story ends and are clearly leading to it. Changing lanes right now would mean breaking some things they've established and facing backlash for retconning. Lucky for us, they don't have to, because otherwise I would question if they actually went to film school at all.

At this point, retconning Byler Endgame would only work because there's a clear narrative structure and intent, which is already the opposite of what retconning is. Instead, this is a plot twist that works because we lost Mike's POV and have to rely on outside perception. Any good plot twist should elevate the narrative and increase the rewatch value of the show. I believe we're leading up to exactly that.

“it’s not queerbaiting if byler doesn’t happen” uh actually, it is at this point.

before season 4:

there was so much teasing and giggling from the cast about byler during season 4 promotions - they knew exactly what they were doing and the reaction they would get from fans, because people have always had theories about will being queer (and potentially being in love with mike).

these theories actually started when the show started, but got way more popular after season 2 (where byler had a lot of scenes together all season) and season 3 ("it's not my fault you don't like girls").

after season 4 volume 1 aired:

we actually got direct confirmation from the cast (like in actual proper words) that will does in fact 100% love mike. he’s been in love with him since the start. no more arguing or theorising, it's FULLY confirmed now.

the cast CONTINUED teasing (giving people hope that something would happen in volume 2, especially with how much focus there was on will's painting) and obviously the byler fandom became so much bigger.

after season 4 volume 2 aired:

as most of us remember, volume 2 was a mess and we were all so angry and disappointed hearing mike’s monologue to el and watching will once again be heartbroken and alone.

they literally USED HIM as a plot device to push mike into telling his girlfriend he loved her, because he didn’t have strength to do it without will confessing his own feelings for him and giving him the painting he worked so hard on.

they took 2 extremely important things to WILL that were about his love for mike, and they made it about a straight ship who don't even feel like equals in their own relationship. absolutely horrible. it’s so disrespectful, hurtful and insulting in ways i can’t even explain - doing all this to a traumatised, abused, gay character who has barely had any happiness the entire show is just disgusting, and the cast and writers would’ve 100% seen the backlash and how upset people were because it was everywhere all over the internet.

the ONLY way they can fix what they did in season 4 with how they used will as a plot device, is by making byler endgame. that is literally the only way to solve the messy writing and make up for all the lies and misunderstandings, otherwise it's just one big joke.

mike's monologue to el only happened thanks to will's monologue to mike.

mike wants to be loved the way that will loves him. mike wants to be needed the way that will needs him. this is canon and in the script. will's monologue can only be applied to himself, but mike doesn't know that because he lied and pretended he was talking about el. that's the only reason he ended up being able to say he loved el. it's all one big misunderstanding and it absolutely CANNOT stay this way.

now, years later after season 4 aired:

people are STILL talking about byler, and the cast and writers KNOW IT.

the writers themselves (not just the actors sharing their own opinions at conventions, but i mean THE ACTUAL WRITERS) could EASILY directly say “byler is definitely not happening and we’re serious. we made this clear in the season 4 finale when mike confessed his love to el, so please don't say we didn't warn you”, but they did not.

even if they did, this still wouldn’t change the fact that the monologue only happened BECAUSE OF WILL, but whatever. they’ve mentioned the monologue while talking about the scene, but they have not directly denied byler in words.

why? why is it so hard to just deny byler?

at this current moment, EVERYONE, including the characters in the show (even will himself) are meant to think it’s confirmed mike loves el because of the big "i love you" moment, so telling viewers that byler definitely isn’t happening WOULD NOT be a spoiler. they could easily say it, make it 100% clear so that no one has hope for it anymore and moves on, but they’re not.

the only reason they're not denying byler is if:

1. something IS actually gonna happen with byler and they're going to resolve all these lies and misunderstandings (mike will find out about will's painting and monologue and realise it was never about el), so they have to keep quiet about everything to do with ships/love triangles.

OR

2. they’re leading people on. they're making them have hope so they keep talking about the show and hyping it up, attracting more potential fans and then keeping them all as viewers for the final season, just to disappoint everyone by keeping the straight ship together and not letting the gay kid be with his first true love + best friend that he's known longer than anyone. this would also mean that so much of the writing choices would be absolutely horrendous and make no sense from a story perspective.

THAT is queerbaiting and bad writing.

there was absolutely no point in making will in love with mike if he wasn't going to end up with him.

and no, the issue is NOT mike simply being with el. if they wanted to always keep them together, they could've written their story beautifully in a proper way, WITHOUT involving will. they could've made their relationship healthy, made them feel like equals and made them actually be able to have proper heart-to-heart conversations (aka what mike has with will...), but they didn't. they also could've given will a different love interest a long time ago, BUT THEY DIDN'T. they deliberately made all of these choices, so you CANNOT sit there and blame byler shippers for feeling the way they do when the writers and cast have literally pushed and encouraged it and given us hope even more. it's not delusion, IT IS IN THE LITERAL SHOW. mike wheeler would not have gained strength and happiness if it weren't for will byers in that van scene - absolutely NOTHING you say can change this. you cannot argue. it's canon and it's there.

and even if will did develop another crush in season 5, it would not even be CLOSE to the way he’s in love with mike. that love has been developing for years, and they’ve known each other for so long and experienced so much together. they were literally each other's FIRST FRIEND! you can't get anymore powerful and romantic than that. all the upside down stuff is also a huge part of will and mike knows everything, and even helped him and saved him at certain points. a different love interest in the final season wouldn’t have those shared experiences with him AND it would feel so rushed and like such a massive slap in the face to make him fall for someone new that we don't even care about.

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run

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I'm being whimsical on my main again (dancing on my insta stories), I fear I'm too happy lately and that's not a good sign. I feel a crash out incoming. Well, at least I'm having fun.

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Interesting how Will is the only one not dating anyone and just living with his parents by the end. Robin is also very straight now. Fascinating. Wonder why.

On a video asking for an ideal stranger things ending….