heir-of-snakes

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so I got into grad school today with my shitty 2.8 gpa and the moral of the story is reblog those good luck posts for the love of god

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people on this website be like “it’s actually school’s fault that i don’t know how to read because i wanted to write my essay on the divergent trilogy and that BITCH mrs. clarkson made us study 1984 instead. anyway here’s a 10 tweet thread of easily disproven misinformation about a 3 year old news story and btw, who is toni morrison?”

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Understood - that makes sense!

I completely agree. The System - and those that scheme, manipulate, and labor to uphold it - is the root of all of this, and without its need to sustain itself, this sort of systemic indoctrination would be obsolete. Nick represents that very well, especially when attempting to answer the questions, “What happens to those who don’t fall in line?” and “What does it take to make one question and turn away from privilege?”

Certainly, the Order is much bigger than the individual. For all of Nick’s mistakes, there is a degree of understanding that I have in acknowledging he didn’t choose this, and therefore he didn’t choose the disproportionate impact that his actions have on others. He’s just another person in a long line of people who have (mostly) unquestionably done what they were told. So I 100% understand what you mean about the lack of fairness because ‘with great power comes great responsibility’ is a damning destiny for someone who wants neither.

There is such a rich tapestry of questions, thoughts, feelings, etc. that Nick invokes in this cycle, and I hope that readers (whether they like him or not) can engage with all of it without allowing their allegiance to restrict the critical analysis. There’s much to be discussed, learned, and reflected on here!

i'm rereading the legendborn cycle in preparation for oathbound and have some thoughts about nick after legendborn.

i didn't like him the first time around, but as a firm breesel shipper i wanted to take my shipper glasses off and give him an actual shot.

verdict: i kinda hate him more

sel is 100% right. nick is spoiled and selfish as hell. he doesn't give a shit about anything but bree and his feelings and it shows. i don't think he had any obligation to the taking on his position as arthur's scion, but if he doesn't want it then he cannot throw it around when it benefits him.

he just comes of as some oblivious dummy, and on occasion i believe he's absolutely blind to the struggles bree faces not only as a black woman, but as a black woman within the historically white Order. putting her on the spot in a room full of people who view her as an outsider with absolutely no hesitation or concern is dangerous and he doesn't seem to give a shit.

also, i despise what he does to sel. i understand that what sel did was shitty, not disputing that. but attacking someone who can't fight back and explicitly state he did it because he can't fight back? fuck this guy.

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I think this is a very charitable reading of Nick’s character - and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that. Part of why I like this cycle lies in the potential for varying experiences to inform people’s opinions of characters.

But part of my problem with Nick is that he is not passively culpable in these power structures. He is not unaware of the harm he perpetuates. As OP noted, Nick intentionally and wrongfully wields power he previously claimed to dislike when it suits his needs; however loving, suave, and compassionate he is toward someone he is romantically interested in. We know that Nick is kind to Bree and friends, but being on the receiving end of his kindness (and humane consideration) depends on being in his favor and not being a Merlin (as he makes several questionable comments about Sel’s status as a Merlin, but I suppose this is in line with the indoctrination of the Order). It’s frustrating that Nick’s understanding of oppression and power imbalances is predicated on the suffering of others. While he is learning about what it means to have power, others are living the truth of not having it. That’s a hard thing to overlook.

I will say, the reminder that they’re all teenagers was needed. Teenagers are sometimes assholes. They can be mean, petty, cruel, and a host of other things as it’s inevitable you will make mistakes and be less-than-kind as you grow and change and develop. But for every time I remember that Nick is a teenager - and therefore allowed to do teenager things - I think it’s equally as important to remember that those who are nearest to him and who stand to suffer the most from his perpetuation of harmful cycles are teenagers, too.

I am genuinely excited for what happens in Oathbound. None of what has transpired so far makes Nick an irrevocably monstrous person unworthy of growth and development. His potential as a character is immeasurable, and I know that we’re in for a wild ride in a couple of months.

But! He’s got his work cut out for him.

i'm rereading the legendborn cycle in preparation for oathbound and have some thoughts about nick after legendborn.

i didn't like him the first time around, but as a firm breesel shipper i wanted to take my shipper glasses off and give him an actual shot.

verdict: i kinda hate him more

sel is 100% right. nick is spoiled and selfish as hell. he doesn't give a shit about anything but bree and his feelings and it shows. i don't think he had any obligation to the taking on his position as arthur's scion, but if he doesn't want it then he cannot throw it around when it benefits him.

he just comes of as some oblivious dummy, and on occasion i believe he's absolutely blind to the struggles bree faces not only as a black woman, but as a black woman within the historically white Order. putting her on the spot in a room full of people who view her as an outsider with absolutely no hesitation or concern is dangerous and he doesn't seem to give a shit.

also, i despise what he does to sel. i understand that what sel did was shitty, not disputing that. but attacking someone who can't fight back and explicitly state he did it because he can't fight back? fuck this guy.

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I really enjoyed this read. Long reply incoming as this is exciting to engage with. Apologies for typos.

I can appreciate this perspective - and agree with various points made - but I come to a different conclusion with regard to the absence of a power imbalance between the two when considering everything you call attention to.

I strongly believe that what we’ve seen/read so far makes it unarguable that, as you said, both Nick and Sel have suffered abuse at the hands of their ‘guardians’ throughout the entirety of their lives; however, the nature of their oath, and the subsequent consequences for breaching it, is inequitable regardless of the indoctrination that normalized this relationship. Nick’s perceived power is wielded as a weapon by those around him - AND himself on several occasions - but the existence of this power itself creates the imbalance. When someone is sworn to protect and, more insidiously, obey another at risk of pain, death, etc. that predicates the existence of a one-sided power dynamic. Merlins, by design, are servants of the Order, with the Kingsmage in particular being the most surveilled and criticized of them all.

Your last paragraph was incredibly thought-provoking because you’re absolutely right: they’re both lonely, and as you mentioned before, “two sides of the same coin” that represent the outdated and oppressively hierarchical organization that is the Order, but Sel being treated as lesser and Nick as greater underscores that power imbalance on more than one front, and it highlights the importance of considering the intersections of power and abuse pertaining to multiple facets of one person.

The best analogy (or at least an effective one) that I can think of would have to be the sociopolitical power of white women in the United States (as I am aware of the difference in perceptions and manifestations of race around the globe). There is a significant degree of oppression on the front of their womanhood via the patriarchy (misogyny, violence, etc.) But, consider that same demographic in a context emphasizing their race rather than their gender. Their categorization as women does not completely diminish the power associated with their Whiteness just as their Whiteness does not always protect them from misogyny.

Nick’s power as the Scion of Arthur does not erase (nor minimize) the abuse and trauma he experienced at the hand of his father, but the existence of those stressors and tribulations doesn’t fully neutralize the weight of who he was when he was believed to be Arthur’s Scion. This is especially true when, again, Sel is bound by a threat of a loss of his humanity to obey, protect, and serve Nick (and therefore the Order).

So to delve deeper into your dog example - I agree that Nick is a tethered dog being watched ever so carefully and Sel is meant to guard him, but a deeper look into the interpersonal workings of that relationship would be something like this: the tethered dog is reduced to a symbol or trophy meant to keep all of the other dogs in line despite the fact that it has little freedom, but the guard dog has to do any and everything to honor his duties as a guard at the risk of being put down should he not do a satisfactory job.

While neither life is what I would want for any living creature, I can certainly see the tip of power grasped by the former.

Unpopular opinion. I don't really see the power imbalance between Sel and Nick. Hear me out please.

Yes, they are oathed and Sel is supposed to protect Nick, but both were groomed as kids to believe this is normal behavior and both are unlearning how terrible it is to be put in that position via Bree flipping rules on their heads

Yes, Nick has privilege but he's more of a caged animal, a pet with a long leash while Sel is conditioned to be a guard dog. Nick thought he had choice, but he doesn't because the Order and Martin Davis use Nick's status to harm the people around him (Anna and Sel and Bree) so they can control him.

Compared to Sel, who knows he has no choice hence why he calls Nick entitled, but couldn't empathize with why Nick's so upset that Anna got mesmered away from the Davis family in Legendborn cuz she rightfully saw the training as abuse. It's canon that Nick hurts Sel physically and Sel hurts Nick emotionally, and that the only time they could technically box on equal footing was under the guise of sparring.

They show 2 sides of the broken system the Order forces them to live by. Sel's is just more transparent to Nick's seemingly cushier life cuz in the end this system robbed them of their mothers and of choice.

Bree feels what Nick (and by some version her own mother) went through cuz now as the King Arthur descendant, she hardly got free time to be alone in Bloodmarked. She was always watched by either the lodge scions or the regents secretly (watched like her mom after the failed mesmer), or told by Sel to stay put which is why she left the wards to train in the arena with William close by. All the stifling Bree feels at being targeted, that's what Nick tried to run from before she convinced him to return to it. Same to Sel, he went from protecting a reckless Nick shirking his "duties" to a reckless Bree claiming and then rejecting those same "kingly duties", with Sel struggling to maintain humanity and honor his oaths in the process.

Sel is lonely while being seen as lesser than for his Merlin lineage and Nick is lonely while being seen as greater than for his supposed title. The zero-sum game they played was bc Martin Davis liked Sel for his obedience while Nick rebelled, they were both in the hands of shitty adults, and between their oath of shared emotions and Bree, that's the time they can understand what the other is feeling truly.

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Gryffindor: Your lack of caring is incredibly frustrating.

Slytherin: Your inability to stop telling me things that I don’t care about is equally as frustrating.

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Hufflepuff: Stop drinking so much coffee.

Slytherin: No, coffee helps depression.

Hufflepuff: That’s not tr-

Slytherin: More espresso, less depresso.

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those cunning folks use any means to achieve their ends .

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in which a slytherin is made

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all i do is yearn and crave and desire.

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Small penises aren’t bad, balding isn’t bad, being short isn’t bad, being fat isn’t bad. Physical traits are not signs of morality, and the sooner people stop mocking people for their bodies (yes, even when they’re bad) the better.

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“Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much.”

— Oscar Wilde

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Oh, I can certainly agree that it was wrong of Sel to manipulate the bond in the way that he did, even taking his reasons into account, but I feel that the two are different in a very significant way.

While it can be tarnished in either direction, only one expression of this is exploiting a centuries-long power dynamic between two individuals taking on roles in which one's livelihood - his direct and only tie to humanity - is inextricably linked to obedience.

Anger is 100% justified on Nick's part, but assaulting someone in your control and attempting to assert dominance over them immediately after is absolutely not. My feelings regarding this are also definitely colored by my distaste for how Merlins are treated in this series as a whole - especially when considering how Sel was bred for one particular purpose, the current mystery surrounding his mother (her disappearance and Sel's conception), and how Sel was brought up in an environment in which he was led to believe in the whole "The Line is Law" garbage.

In particular, I (of course) didn't like Nick admitting that he was purposefully taking punitive measures in a way that Sel couldn't protect himself from because of that difference in standing, along with forcing Sel to refer to him with reverence by calling rank when it suits his needs. There is at least one time I can think of where Nick forcibly calls attention to the dynamic at play by contemptuously calling Sel "Kingsmage," prompting Sel to refer to him as "my liege."

Again, definitely see where you're coming from, though - cheers.

Huh… really interesting to read that you think Sel is more trope than character when it seems like that’s how everyone feels about Nick. I have always felt weird about not really being into Sel. We have seen the brooding, dark haired love interest a million times.

Exactly my thoughts. I never really liked that type of character to begin with. I think people don’t see Sel as a trope because 1. they eat that trope up and 2. they think being morally gray means a character has depth. They do not, in fact, have depth. They are all copy and pastes of each other.

I actually rolled my eyes when Sel was first introduced because these characters are so predictable. They all start off hated by the FMC (yet she always ogles him). They all hurt people, including her. But they all also do some nice things which makes them immediately forgivable in the FMC’s and audience’s eyes. For years I’ve been wondering why these characters are so popular in books made for girls in their formative years. Why are we trying to teach them to love men that hurt them?

About Nick, I think he seems like a trope because Deonn wrote him off in order to give Sel a romance arc. He could have had so much more depth than Sel with the identity crisis thing going on, but then the romance Deonn wanted wouldn’t have worked.

I try to write MMCs more like Nick. I will admit it is challenging to create a character who is both nice and compelling, but there are ways to make it work. And we need to make it work. We need more diverse storytelling than falling back on what everyone else is doing, and we need to move past the internalized misongyny that keeps making its way into books made for girls.

I hope the girlies aren’t too mad about this take.

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Lots of interesting thoughts here - thanks for engaging. Another long post ahead because if there's one thing I am good at, it's talking too damn much.

To start, I know that Sel is a trope (and still, I'm not sure that this disqualifies a character from having depth). The second half of my response was pointing out that Nick is also a trope - which is something I felt was missing in your initial post. It seemed as though you were creating a comparison in which Nick was your preferred character because of his lack of adherence to a particular trope versus your perception of Sel. It seems as though your issue is less with Sel being a trope and more with him being a trope you just happen to not like. "I specifically remember Sel admitting that Bree was obviously a oblivious once-born and he can’t believe he ever thought otherwise once he spent time alone with her in the trial. Part of that is to save his pride, but if he was willing to admit it was foolish to focus so much on Bree as a threat, then I think we can too."

I think it's important to put this sentiment into context. He says this is the case after he's had the opportunity to closely watch her throughout her training, which makes him privy to information he did not have before. Then, again, he makes his intention to back off clear by stating he investigates threats as opposed to people like Bree who have powers he doesn't understand but still pose no danger to the Order as she can't control them (277).

This statement has less to do with acceptance of having willfully ignored certain signs and more to do with his conditioning to accept fault. He bitterly calls himself a fool for ever having believed her to be an uchel. We, as the readers, know that Bree was never a threat, but Sel couldn't have. I don't agree with the notion that he was foolish to fully assure himself that she was not a threat given just how little information he had to go off of. Taking his statement as assuming genuine responsibility for negligence doesn't take into account the role that shame plays in his character, his position as Kingsmage, and the specific conditions surrounding his upbringing and his birth.

"Sel's standards for his own behavior are terribly high, it's true - and they come at a terrible cost. I can't help but think of Sel's self-recrimination. His acceptance of Erubus's charges of negligence." Bloodmarked (208).

As for Sel continuing to hurt Bree - I didn't claim otherwise. I said he doesn't continue to try to kill her, which is of course a low standard, but if the threshold for a suitable romantic partner is set at someone not hurting you, neither Sel nor Nick make the cut. I'm not sure that anyone does, but that's beyond the point. Yes, he continued to hurt her for reasons depicted throughout both books, but I admittedly don't understand why someone hurting you diminishes your ability to communicate and decide for yourself whether it's a dealbreaker. This goes for both love interests.

I'm also confused about what the genuine issue is with apologizing for your actions - morally grey as they may be - and altering behavior afterward to convey sincere remorse once realizing you were wrong. Are we meant to permanently write Sel (or anyone) off as toxic with no path for redemption (this has limits, of course)? I offer no excuses for mesmering her to hide his visual process of succumbing to the blood. While wanting to hide the figuratively ugly parts of yourself from people you love is normal, doing so by manipulating their perception and infringing on their autonomy is not. Bad Sel.

However, when presented with this, Bree blatantly calls out the abuse of his powers and verbalizes that she deserves better than that. She asserts that she can't trust him or herself if everything is based on lies. She communicates. She is not some spineless, docile character who perpetually rolls over and takes whatever Sel dishes out without proper correction. But this scene plays out in a way that reveals the nature of Sel's shame that I spoke about before along with Bree's strength. He doesn't expect her forgiveness or her understanding. He is fully prepared to follow her order for him to leave and go off to find Nick should she decide to give it. While that order never comes, that doesn't mean she forgives him.

In fact, she states on 436 that she hasn't fully forgiven him and isn't sure how they'll ever be able to "repair that rift." She thinks forgiveness is possible when they are in a place of "protection and peace," but she explicitly states that they're not there yet. There is no part of Bree that thinks, "It's okay to love him even though he hurt me because he has valid excuses." She listened to his reasoning and understood it, but understanding is not synonymous with brushing it to the side. There have been numerous times in my own relationship where I have been hurt, taken the time to understand the reasoning/explanation, and still asserted that the actions weren't okay after opening lines of communication to promote healing and growth.

I'm not exactly sure what you meant by, "I actually think this excuses thing is gross." I'll refrain from commenting on that to avoid the risk of an uncharitable interpretation on my part.

As for Nick in Bloodmarked, his temporary decrease in importance can be explained in that his chief role in Legendborn was to be "Scion of Arthur," Bree's passage into the world of the Order. He doesn't have that role anymore and needs to identify his sense of self beyond it. Still, I think it's too early to make claims about the importance of his character overall, especially since it's been heavily hinted at that he will be a major player in the upcoming release. Even in Bloodmarked, it's clear that something big is brewing with Nick specifically as he develops an identity beyond the Order by seeing more of what's out there, so I don't consider my lack of seeing Nick as written off to be a "problem." I don't purport to know the plotline of an unfinished series, so it's something we'll have to see in March 2025.

Thanks for responding - cheers.

P.S. I sincerely hope my first response didn't come across as aggressive or rude as that wasn't my intention. Tone is difficult to gauge via text, so I wasn't sure if I was looking too deeply into some parts. I don't like for things to be vague and I thought it best to make myself clear.

Huh… really interesting to read that you think Sel is more trope than character when it seems like that’s how everyone feels about Nick. I have always felt weird about not really being into Sel. We have seen the brooding, dark haired love interest a million times.

Exactly my thoughts. I never really liked that type of character to begin with. I think people don’t see Sel as a trope because 1. they eat that trope up and 2. they think being morally gray means a character has depth. They do not, in fact, have depth. They are all copy and pastes of each other.

I actually rolled my eyes when Sel was first introduced because these characters are so predictable. They all start off hated by the FMC (yet she always ogles him). They all hurt people, including her. But they all also do some nice things which makes them immediately forgivable in the FMC’s and audience’s eyes. For years I’ve been wondering why these characters are so popular in books made for girls in their formative years. Why are we trying to teach them to love men that hurt them?

About Nick, I think he seems like a trope because Deonn wrote him off in order to give Sel a romance arc. He could have had so much more depth than Sel with the identity crisis thing going on, but then the romance Deonn wanted wouldn’t have worked.

I try to write MMCs more like Nick. I will admit it is challenging to create a character who is both nice and compelling, but there are ways to make it work. And we need to make it work. We need more diverse storytelling than falling back on what everyone else is doing, and we need to move past the internalized misongyny that keeps making its way into books made for girls.

I hope the girlies aren’t too mad about this take.

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This was an interesting read, and I'd like to engage more. Apologies in advance, but this will most definitely be a long entry, haha.

I'd like to start by saying that I recognize and agree that encouraging instant forgiveness in scenarios where men hurt women just because they do one nice thing is, of course, terrible and feeds into deeper power dynamics that are prevalent within patriarchal societies. That said, I'm not sure that I agree this series fits into that particular mold the way you describe it.

For one, I don't see Bree as immediately forgiving Sel. From what I can remember, she is actually quite angry with him for a decent portion of the books we have available so far. It's also entirely possible to be angry with someone and still find them physically attractive, and that's especially the case with Sel who is part uchel/sex demon. He's meant to be alluring in that way, and there are several points where she (Bree) notes that for someone so beautiful, he's volatile.

I saw that someone else already pointed this out, but Sel didn't hurt Bree for the sake of it. When we read this book through Bree's eyes, it's easy to write Sel off as some paranoid, overly-obsessed maniac who targets her for no good reason, but when we consider all of the pieces of evidence in total summation, we see he had very good reasons for believing her to be a threat. By noting that this itself is inherent to the problem you're identifying, you're creating a situation where there is no potential explanation for the character while also potentially misrepresenting the circumstances. In most cases with this trope, the MMC is awful to the FMC because of some tragic backstory where he doesn't want to let anyone in and pushes her and everyone else away. While this is part of Sel's arc, it's not the chief reason he treats her the way that he does.

At the very beginning of Legendborn, Sel was aware that Bree saw the uchel in the woods - which she should not have been able to do. His mesmer attempts wouldn't hold for her which, again, shouldn't have been possible. It also just so happens that when Bree enters their lives, there is more discord within the world of the Order, and as a Kingsmage, he can't interpret this as a mere coincidence. Yes, many people in the story attempted to assure Sel that Bree wasn't a threat, but how did they know for sure when they weren't aware of all of the reasons Sel suspected her? They knew her for all of one week, it didn't make sense that they could have been so certain of her innocence despite the strange things happening around her. Once Sel was certain that she wasn't a Shadowborn threat to Nick, he immediately backed off his attempts to kill her. Keep in mind that this is not a mere duty for him, it's his entire life's purpose. He was bred to be Nick's Kingsmage, and his tether to humanity is directly linked with how thoroughly he adheres to his responsibilities - something that both Nick and Nick's father routinely hold over his head.

Regarding Nick, he is certainly a trope along with Sel, and he embodies a trope we see often. They represent a Light and Dark dichotomy, with Nick representing your stereotypical, tall, blonde hair, blue eyes, conventionally attractive, Golden Retriever MMC. From what I've seen Deonn say, this next book will feature Nick in a significant way, so it isn't clear to me that he's been written off to make way for Sel and Bree's relationship.

Beyond that, it's easy to see Nick as "nice" because of his chipper demeanor, but nice is not always a direct line to goodness. A primary example that turns off many readers from Nick in Legendborn, myself included, is his blatant exploitation of the power dynamic that exists between him and Sel. Put plainly, it's abusive. When Bree is understandably disgusted by this and brings it to Nick's attention, rather than taking accountability, he both justifies himself and is upset that she appears to be defending Sel rather than remaining on his side unconditionally. He has an expectation of loyalty from her that is seemingly unjustified to that degree. It's also important to note that this power he holds is something he actively avoided but saw fit to throw around when it suited his purposes of punishment.

This isn't to say that Nick is irredeemable. I strongly believe in the potential for growth and redemption, and I have no doubt that there will be many opportunities for Nick to show himself to be a great character. But the problems that many people have with Nick don't just boil down to "Sel and Bree belong together, Nick sucks!" It makes sense that that particular instance was off-putting for many, especially Bree who had (at that point) experienced varying degrees of discrimination from people in positions of power over her.

Huh… really interesting to read that you think Sel is more trope than character when it seems like that’s how everyone feels about Nick. I have always felt weird about not really being into Sel. We have seen the brooding, dark haired love interest a million times.

Exactly my thoughts. I never really liked that type of character to begin with. I think people don’t see Sel as a trope because 1. they eat that trope up and 2. they think being morally gray means a character has depth. They do not, in fact, have depth. They are all copy and pastes of each other.

I actually rolled my eyes when Sel was first introduced because these characters are so predictable. They all start off hated by the FMC (yet she always ogles him). They all hurt people, including her. But they all also do some nice things which makes them immediately forgivable in the FMC’s and audience’s eyes. For years I’ve been wondering why these characters are so popular in books made for girls in their formative years. Why are we trying to teach them to love men that hurt them?

About Nick, I think he seems like a trope because Deonn wrote him off in order to give Sel a romance arc. He could have had so much more depth than Sel with the identity crisis thing going on, but then the romance Deonn wanted wouldn’t have worked.

I try to write MMCs more like Nick. I will admit it is challenging to create a character who is both nice and compelling, but there are ways to make it work. And we need to make it work. We need more diverse storytelling than falling back on what everyone else is doing, and we need to move past the internalized misongyny that keeps making its way into books made for girls.

I hope the girlies aren’t too mad about this take.

[heir-of-snakes]

"The one who plants trees, knowing that he will never sit in their shade, has at least started to understand the meaning of life."

— Rabindranath Tagore

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Lee Krasner // Franz Kafka