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I get that people want to help and report content that they view as dangerous, especially content that includes underage, but i feel like overall people are VERY quick to jump the gun on whats actually considered CSEM.

I do not use the term CP, it is not the correct way to reference such material, so i will exclusively use CSEM / CSAM, just for reference throughout the rest of this post. I would also like to specify that i am American, and my understanding of the law purely applies to the USA, so your laws may vary! Make sure to do appropriate research for whatever country you may be in, but also keep in mind your laws will not apply to everyone you meet online.

As unsettling as the concept of fictional underage can be to some, and i do not judge you for your discomfort for such depictions, choosing to report it is a waste of resources that could be put to use helping real life children. I am not saying this to insult you or put you down, but if you are using government report forms for depictions of things such as lolisho or drawings of bnha characters, you are misusing these forms, as the government does not care about these depictions. This has nothing to do with morality, or what i think is okay vs what you think is okay, this is purely based in what the law declares CSEM.

Pulled directly from Justice.gov:

Visual depictions include photographs, videos, digital or computer generated images indistinguishable from an actual minor, and images created, adapted, or modified, but appear to depict an identifiable, actual minor.

What does this mean, exactly? How does it separate fictional minors from real ones? The use of "Indistinguishable" is one of the important phrasing details. Yes, a drawing can count as CSEM, but the depiction must be nearly to entirely photo-realistic. When using the phrasing indistinguishable from an actual minor, they are not referring to 'you can tell the drawing is supposed to be of a child', they are saying that the image needs to look like a real life photo of a child even though it was created by a person or a machine. If you can tell that it was hand drawn, it does not fall under the CSEM umbrella.

"Appear to depict an identifiable, actual minor" is the other important phrase here. More or less, this just references that you need to be able to point at a real life person who exists and go "yeah this is the kid in the image", even if said photo is edited to some degree or was drawn by hand. This is what separates things like lolisho from someone who is actively drawing real minors that they know in sexual situations.

These distinctions, while seeming small or like i'm purposefully cherry-picking meanings and phrasing, are very significant when it comes to the law. Law is picky, whether we like it or not, and phrasing can and will be nitpicked to the very last little detail. That's why it can be so important to make sure we fully understand what laws we're looking at and interacting with when we do things like make these reports or sling around serious accusations. Regardless of your stance on the matter, you must be educated if you're going to involve the legal system in your arguments.

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i think “video games aren’t really the violent child-corrupting threat some parents worry they are” and “certain circles of gamer culture are incredibly toxic and can lead people down dangerous/hateful ideological rabbit holes” are ideas that can absolutely coexist

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Every year as pride approaches we must prepare for the kink at pride discourse, stay strong brothers we will weather the storm /lh

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Me when people are having actual constructive discussions in the notes on a post

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I've mostly been using they them as an example for folks who exclusively use neos with no 'common' alternatives, but I absolutely agree! If you're aware that they use he or she as well, then that should be your default and not they, THAT is active misgendering in those cases.

I do understand the frustration with neos being exclusively ignored, I think my biggest gripe is simply with people who will assume the worst when someone defaults to more familiar territories. "I do not understand neos, I'll default to they/them [or she/he]" tends to get convoluted with "I am a transphobe and I don't respect you"

But I do think you make very good points, I absolutely agree that assumptions SHOULDNT be made if it can be helped. Some people simply aren't GIVEN those options, and at that point they're just trying to accommodate in the only way they feel is least insulting

I think my most controversial xenogender / neopronoun take is that you absolutely have every right to use neopronouns and emoji pronouns and any manner of things like that but you also need to be understanding of people who might not understand it even after an explanation or might default to they / them.

If you exclusively use neos but they're willing to meet you half way and use they, I genuinely don't believe it's transphobic. Especially when you get into the more confusing ones that involve nouns or emojis, like pup / pupself. People who aren't familiar with neos, people who struggle with English to begin with, people who might not have English as their first language, etc.

You can explain it if you desire, but they may or may not understand even after that, and I think people need to learn to distinguish malicious intent from genuine confusion, wariness of doing it wrong / being offensive, or even just plain neutrality.

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They / them is universally accepted as a neutral, ungendered pronoun, that is the difference I see between it and she / he.

I'm genuinely glad you've come to understand neopronouns! Though eight years is a long time to practice and get comfortable with English, some folks are newer and might default out of a sense of "I don't feel comfortable in my skills yet", and are genuinely trying to learn neos.

Some people, even after YEARS, are never fully comfortable with their English, especially if they've had difficulties being properly taught. I'm not saying every person ever is allowed to misgender people as they see fit, I'm saying that some people do, and always will, have trouble with neopronouns. If you've been keeping track of other reblogs I'm sure you saw the learning deficiency example, and I stand by the language barrier. Some people will simply ALWAYS struggle with the concept even if they try their hardest to understand.

I feel like we just won't see eye to eye on this particular topic, and that's perfectly fine! I understand where you're coming from, I really do, I just feel like there are times when there's more nuance to it than black and white "you are right or you are wrong".

I think my most controversial xenogender / neopronoun take is that you absolutely have every right to use neopronouns and emoji pronouns and any manner of things like that but you also need to be understanding of people who might not understand it even after an explanation or might default to they / them.

If you exclusively use neos but they're willing to meet you half way and use they, I genuinely don't believe it's transphobic. Especially when you get into the more confusing ones that involve nouns or emojis, like pup / pupself. People who aren't familiar with neos, people who struggle with English to begin with, people who might not have English as their first language, etc.

You can explain it if you desire, but they may or may not understand even after that, and I think people need to learn to distinguish malicious intent from genuine confusion, wariness of doing it wrong / being offensive, or even just plain neutrality.

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I'm not really saying they can't be upset, but I feel like too many people are willing to put "active transphobia" and "they're trying, even if they aren't quite hitting what they should be" on the same level. It's wildly more fucked up, in my eyes, if they're actively using gendered pronouns, but they / them is more neutral ground to me and shows that while they may be struggling with the concept at least they're putting effort in?

This is especially a problem in folks who already struggle with English to begin with, and I do feel like seeing it as "it's either this or that" with no in between overlooks a LOT of grey areas. English might not be their first language, they may have a learning deficiency, etc. At least they/them is wildly used and a relatively safe territory

I think my most controversial xenogender / neopronoun take is that you absolutely have every right to use neopronouns and emoji pronouns and any manner of things like that but you also need to be understanding of people who might not understand it even after an explanation or might default to they / them.

If you exclusively use neos but they're willing to meet you half way and use they, I genuinely don't believe it's transphobic. Especially when you get into the more confusing ones that involve nouns or emojis, like pup / pupself. People who aren't familiar with neos, people who struggle with English to begin with, people who might not have English as their first language, etc.

You can explain it if you desire, but they may or may not understand even after that, and I think people need to learn to distinguish malicious intent from genuine confusion, wariness of doing it wrong / being offensive, or even just plain neutrality.

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I just feel like there's a wild difference between hiding behind ignorance [ex. "I'm not going to use the / them that's not how grammar works!"] And genuinely not being able to wrap your head around it, especially bc there's a LOT of neos and some are similar but Not Quite The Same

Like I said, there is a difference between being malicious and at least trying to accommodate, at least to me, though I'm aware I'm a very "idgaf" person and most things don't exactly bother me unless they're done for the sake of being an asshole. I'm not saying that it can't be frustrating, I'm just saying it isn't necessarily an attack and also if you're going to use more obscure pronouns you really should be prepared for some people to not be able to for various reasons or to default to at least a universally neutral one. If they default to he or she and you don't use those I think that's a bigger problem more related to Actually Being Transphobic, but i think too many people jump the gun on assuming someone is actually just as much of an asshole even if they're trying but not quite hitting the mark in the way that's desired.

They/them IS also wildly common and it's very stupid for transphobes to claim it isnt, but things like vae/vaer, kit/kitself, etc. ARE far less common, I don't feel like they're quite comparable, especially when brought into contexts like "this person has trouble with English to being with" for whatever reason

I think my most controversial xenogender / neopronoun take is that you absolutely have every right to use neopronouns and emoji pronouns and any manner of things like that but you also need to be understanding of people who might not understand it even after an explanation or might default to they / them.

If you exclusively use neos but they're willing to meet you half way and use they, I genuinely don't believe it's transphobic. Especially when you get into the more confusing ones that involve nouns or emojis, like pup / pupself. People who aren't familiar with neos, people who struggle with English to begin with, people who might not have English as their first language, etc.

You can explain it if you desire, but they may or may not understand even after that, and I think people need to learn to distinguish malicious intent from genuine confusion, wariness of doing it wrong / being offensive, or even just plain neutrality.

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I think my most controversial xenogender / neopronoun take is that you absolutely have every right to use neopronouns and emoji pronouns and any manner of things like that but you also need to be understanding of people who might not understand it even after an explanation or might default to they / them.

If you exclusively use neos but they're willing to meet you half way and use they, I genuinely don't believe it's transphobic. Especially when you get into the more confusing ones that involve nouns or emojis, like pup / pupself. People who aren't familiar with neos, people who struggle with English to begin with, people who might not have English as their first language, etc.

You can explain it if you desire, but they may or may not understand even after that, and I think people need to learn to distinguish malicious intent from genuine confusion, wariness of doing it wrong / being offensive, or even just plain neutrality.

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This isn't an accusation or anything but I'm genuinely curious as to why specifically the hitting part makes you happy? I absolutely agree that a minor should not be engaging in that sort of media, but I feel like a sit down discussion about why this is bad / dangerous would be more beneficial for them, especially since most folks against problematic content want to protect abuse victims and this is a genuine case of physical abuse.

Physical harm also makes them more likely to simply hide the content they consume, as opposed to a conversation about why it might be dangerous.

Again, not trying to argue, I'm just genuinely curious about your logic / reasoning

shoutout to my auntie for smacking the shit out of my cousin when she found their darkship and loli art 💜

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Blocklists are something i have never been able to get behind. I feel like even with the best of intentions theyre just used to harrass and attack people, because it doesnt matter if YOU wont do that, fucked up people will. Putting WHOLE groups on blast is dangerous territory. Its one thing to privately share stuff like that with your friends, but when i see someone publicly sharing stuff like that i tend to block them.

Callout posts fall under this category too, unless its someone whos actively going out of their way to harm people. if its just someone minding their business but making content you dont agree with i think sharing it around causes more problems than anything.

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NGL i feel like people need to realize sometimes ppl they dont agree with will like or reblog their stuff. I don't think its fair to expect people to dig on your blog or carrd or patreon or whatever it is you use to see if they arent allowed to look at it. ESPECIALLY with stuff like 'basic dni criteria', thats wildly vague. Like, if theyre going to actively chat with you i think its more important to keep in mind your boundaries? but if you see you get a like and go to their blog and you see something you dont enjoy, thats really just on you to block at that point and it really isnt something to get particularly upset over.

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there was a great study a few years that went into the whole "ppl online are bigger jerks than irl cuz theres a virtual wall and no repercussions" and the researchers were expecting to see that be the case but it turns out that people who were really angry or argumentative online were also found to just be assholes in person and people who were pretty patient and nice online were found to be patient and nice in real person as well

and it just debunked that whole cynical idea that people will naturally be mean if theres no punishment for it

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Publishing it has several reasons! People like finding others who are like-minded, so a sense of community or finding friends who might be able to understand your preferences or even your trauma can be one reason. Someone publishing their works might not even be looking to directly interact with others, but might hope they resonate with their work and feel seen. Another, less in depth reason is simply approval. Some people create fan works because they like to get a response, be it a work that came from a place of trauma or a work from a place of 'i just want to get off on this'. Some people just like sharing what they create with no intention of getting feedback, they want to write or draw something and just put it out into the world for people to view and then they don't really think about it again! It really just depends on the person.

Myself as an example again, I tend to post taboo works because I want people to know they have a right to create and share them, and also because I just want people to enjoy and possibly engage with it! I don't feel the need to hide that I make these works because I don't find them shameful, regardless of if I'm venting my own issues or writing/drawing them for purely sexual reasons.

RPF is a tricky issue in my opinion, personally I don't enjoy it but as long as it is contained within it's tags, isn't shown to the people it depicts without their consent, and the actual people it's about werent mistreated to create said work [ex. Actual pedophilia hidden behind the guise of RPF], then it at the very least has the right to exist within those spaces, like AO3 having designated tags for it. It really just boils down to "did a real person get hurt to create this work?", and if the answer is no I mostly ignore it in regards to RPF

When it crosses the threshold of a fictional scenario into reality [ex. Actual CSEM or snuff], it no longer becomes a discussion of fandom spaces or fiction vs reality or even whether it's coping or not, as real people are hurt, at that point it's just abuse and exploitation

Also ocf! I don't mind discussing things like this :]

alright i’m getting jumped on reddit for this so i’m gonna ask for other opinions. proshippers, why don’t you just write your own characters if you want to write things such as incest. especially when it comes to characters from children’s media. also does it actually help process trauma because most people i’ve heard use that excuse were doing it for unrelated trauma. keep discussion respectful and i’ll keep it respectful.

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For some people they use pre-existing characters for simple reasons, they like their designs or it's easier. There's established relationships and worldbuilding you can use as a base. For others it might be they have an attachment to the character. Some people find it interesting to explore how taboo dynamics will affect their faves. Some people just think the characters are hot and should fuck about it.

Children's media remains wildly popular even to older audiences, it's no different from using an adult media imo as long as you remain respectful and tag appropriately / actively warn kids away from your content. You can't really control if a kid seeks it out regardless, that's on them and the parents.

As for trauma, that varies HEAVILY from person to person. What helps one person might heavily trigger another. Personally I enjoy noncon or heavy violence in fics from a consumption and a writing it myself standpoint because when I read what others write, I can choose to stop, or I can make less negative associations with trauma. From a writing standpoint I get to DECIDE how the scene goes, it gives me control over something I otherwise had no control over in my original experience with it :]

alright i’m getting jumped on reddit for this so i’m gonna ask for other opinions. proshippers, why don’t you just write your own characters if you want to write things such as incest. especially when it comes to characters from children’s media. also does it actually help process trauma because most people i’ve heard use that excuse were doing it for unrelated trauma. keep discussion respectful and i’ll keep it respectful.

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Frankly, in regards to fanfic and fan content, the concept of "if you see it in fiction you do it / will be persuaded to do it IRL" is a strange take to me simply because it's so obviously not backed up by reality. There are obviously exceptions, but on a grand scale, when we are talking about SPECIFICALLY fandom spaces and taboo themes and shipping, I don't particularly see this trend? If you have evidence otherwise please feel free to enlighten me bc I really don't get where this sentiment comes from

Let's use incest for example, because it is quite frankly one of the more popular forms of taboo shipping. Early Tumblr was FULL of it. Wincest, pinecest, stancest, whatever those little bitches in ouran had going on, stridercest, basically ANY version of Homestuck incest NGL, elriccest, I could just keep going. If the fandom had siblings, people shipped them.

These ships were WILDLY popular, you can't really argue that they were niche in fandom bc everyone knew about them, even if they didn't ship it. And these were popular years ago. Yet,, by now, don't you think we'd STATISTICALLY see an increase in incest cases IRL that can be linked back to fandom spaces? As far as I'm aware, there has never been such a connection made, nor has incest related abuse even really drastically increased among younger generations. It fluctuates, sure, but with HOW MANY people shipped these things wouldn't there be a dramatic and drastic shift?

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if you've ever wondered why fandoms suck so much these days, this is why