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Do you think that Marinette had character development and that she lost it in Season 6 or that she never had character development at all?

No one in this show has true character development where they grow over the course of the narrative. At least, no one has lasting positive development. Any positive development will be limited to a single episode and then be immediately undone such as Marinette promising to be more open with Chat Noir in the season four final only for her to maintain all the secrets in the next season.

The only kind of development that sticks around is when characters get worse. Marinette is allowed to keep more and more secrets, Chloe is allowed to be a bigger brat, and Gabriel is allowed to treat Adrien worse and worse because those things don't move the plot forward. They make the plot stagnate.

If Marinette was allowed to actually show off her supposed growth from season four, then she wouldn't keep things from Chat Noir and then Adrien would learn the truth and we can't have that so Marinette must never be truly better. She can only ever be worse because she has to keep secrets for the show to work the way the writers want it to work.

Similarly, Adrien couldn't actually learn to stand up to his father because then Adrien would have been able to make it to the final fight and that would have lead to him learning the truth so he has to be too weak to resist the nightmare dust. A strong, independent Adrien is too dangerous for a show that's all about the status quo.

This is, as always, why you don't introduce big serialized conflicts in episodic formula shows. The two just don't mix.

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i know everyone's gonna be focusing on marinette's actions this episode (which honestly, even as someone who's always leaned more in marinette's favor, i can't even begin to defend), but can we talk about how sublime is portrayed for a moment?

bc as far as i can tell she's basically the poster child for the "saintly disabled" character. like literally. her only "flaws" afaik are her lack of legs and her overbearing mom. she's literally shown playing a harp as birds flock around her like a goddamn disney princess. it honestly feels like she only exists to be perfect and thus stoke marinette's jealousy.

so uh. congrats on once again botching writing a disabled character ml writers.

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Anyway the big issue with the crew’s approach to tropes and “plot twists”, aside from being very lazy attempts at shock value, originality, and unpredictability, is that they never seem to have considered what the intent and messaging is behind certain tropes, whether they agree with said intent and messaging, and if there’s another original way to convey the intent and messaging instead of immediately abandoning it in favor of skipping to whatever the opposite of a trope is without further thought for what it implies

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Random thing but Zoe being canonically into girls is the equivalent of putting a toothpick with the lesbian flag on a slice of white bread, it still has no flavor or substance, it just has a neat decoration

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I’ve always wondered why I’m so harsh on Zoe outside of just her character being used to it’s simplest degree (ie just being a replacement for Chloe) and I think I get it now.

Zoe is a perfect example of the “good/perfect victim”. The writers literally used her to downplay Chloe’s own abuse experiences by saying “See? Here’s a teen who was also abused at school and she turned out to be a sweetheart who’s so much better than Chloe in every way” blatantly ignoring She and Chloe possibly different home lives because Zoe had a different father.

As someone with experiences of toxic home lives I don’t appreciate it when abuse gets undermined especially parental and Zoe being used as a mouthpiece for what I guess can be summed up as abuse apologia made me think so lowly of her as a character.

Thoughts?

I actually just got another ask about my thoughts on Zoe, so I'll schedule this to post the same day since it's topical. In that post, I talked about why she bugs me and it's because she reads like the main character in an escapist self-insert power-fantasy fanfic. Once again, to be extra clear, those types of fanfic are FINE! Power fantasies and escapism are extremely valid things that are popular in professional works, too. For example, they basically dominate isekai and romance stories, but Zoe showcases exactly why characters like this only work as main characters in escapist fantasies. If you try to make them work as a normal side character, they just feel weird. Make them the main character or don't write them. Since she's not the lead, why is she even here?

I didn't consider the perfect victim angle in that other post, but now that you've brought it up, I'm wondering if that was indeed why she was introduced. Is she here to show that someone could have Chloe's mom and still come out to be a good person? The writers do seem really obsessed with that idea as we see from this moment in Derision:

Marinette: (as she goes down the stairs) I just got three more hours of detention on Saturday, and it's all because of Chloé. Rose: Don’t be mad at her. She's this way because her mother left her when she was young. Mylène: So did mine! And you don't see me having fun bullying Marinette. We've got to do something about your pants. I'm afraid they might be ruined for good.

This isn't even why people think that Chloe is the way she is? It's not just because her mother left. It's her father's terrible parenting, her absurd wealth, and the fact that her mother didn't actually leave. Audrey is still very much around, she just ignores Chloe most of the time and insults her on the rare occasions when they're in the same place. That's a recipe for disaster.

Sure, some people are lucky enough to come out being a good person in spite of their messed up home life and those who come out as jerks don't get a free pass to be jerks, but it's not like it's a total shock when bad home lives lead to people being jerks. The bully with a bad home life is a stereotype for a reason.

I'll once again point to The Good Place as an excellent show to watch if you want to see a realistic journey for a Chloe-like character. A journey that acknowledges the struggles that come from a messed up home life without giving the characters a free pass to use that home life as an excuse for their actions. Part of their journey is accepting that they have to stop blaming their parents and take charge of their lives.

Miraculous could have done something similar if it wasn't a formula show. The potential was there. But it is a formula show and the writers apparently don't think that Chloes are capable of change. I get that childhood bullies suck, I had one! I am very happy that she's no longer in my life, but I also don't think that she was incapable of change. She just needed to be put in the right situation where she accepted that change was needed and that never happened when we were kids. Has it happened since then? I don't know! Some people never change, but that doesn't mean that they can't change. Most of us are capable of changing. It just takes the right catalyst and a lot of hard work. People rarely start changing out of nowhere. It almost always has an inciting incident.

That's actually part of why Zoe's story feels so shallow. We're never really told why she was the way she supposedly was pre-canon or what caused her to change into her canon self. This is the backstory we get in Sole Crusher:

Zoé: I'm... really sorry about today. I thought that if I did everything Chloé wanted me to, she'd accept me. I just wanted to meet my family's expectations. Which is why I left New York in the first place. At the boarding school, I was playing a part; being someone else, hoping they'd accept me. But finally, I just couldn't anymore. That's when everyone turned against me, and one day, I found roaches in my locker. They all said I was a loser. Maybe they were right. I get that I'm different, and... I'd understand if you guys didn't want me as a friend.

So Zoe lied about everything and, when she revealed that she was a massive liar, everyone turned against her? Shocking. Why wouldn't they welcome a confirmed liar with open arms? That's so weird! (That was sarcasm.)

Seriously, why are we acting like Zoe was the wronged party here? This is literally Lila's story save for the motivation behind the actions (as far as we know). There are times when motivation matters, but this is not one of them. If you've spent weeks (months? years?) lying to people, then they're not going to trust you when the lies are revealed. Maybe you'll get lucky and someone will be willing to hear you out and give you a second chance, but that's an act of kindness. It's not an act of basic human decency.

This speed run story probably wants us to believe that everyone at Zoe's school was evil and that Zoe had to fake a personality to fit in, but I don't believe that. Writers, if you want me to believe it, then actually show us her story! You had a full New York special to do it! Why didn't you make Zoe the lead there since the specials love to introduce new characters to hog the screen? Have Zoe's school be the American school they go to and have her personality change be caused by Marinette and Co. so that Marinette and Co. trusting Zoe in Sole Crusher actually makes sense instead of feeling like something the plot forced on them! This is the scene I'm talking about, btw:

Marinette: (confused) I don't understand. When I met her this morning, she was so nice. Alya: That's crazy. Chloe's influence is so toxic that she's managed to corrupt her sister in a few hours. Alix: We gotta get her out of there.

Why are you all so sure that Marinette's two-minute-long interaction was the "real" Zoe and that her new personality is all Chloe's fault? Why are you acting like it's impossible to fake being nice but faking being evil is totally reasonable?

It really feels like this show is trying to say that people are either inherently good or inherently evil. Zoe was inherently good and just played at evil, so she's fine, but Chloe is just evil so she's doomed. That is really not how the world works, but now that I think about it, it does match the way the miraculous are often used. There are "evil" and "good" versions of some of the powers instead of just powers that can be used for good or evil. I've never liked that because it makes no sense. Why do akumas need a good form? Why is there an evil transformation phrase? Why do the miraculous even have an evil mode? Who programed that in???

While were on the topic of things that were possibly done just to show that Chloe is evil: is this why they made Jagged Stone an absentee parent to Luka and Juleka and then made the "twins" totally cool with it? Is the show trying to say, "Look! Luka and Juleka are nice! Therefore this is a Chloe problem. Stop blaming her parents!"

Who knows, but your idea certainly has merit. I wouldn't go so far as to claim that this must be what's going on, we don't know and I don't like to treat educated guesses as fact because they're not, but the text certainly has evidence to back this read.

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I need to figure out what I'm gonna do with this blog because I'm not deleting it but I'm also not watching season 6 so like... can ya'll give me some ideas?

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The fact that they’re still trying to sell us what is essentially a copy-paste of the previous arc and trying to get us excited with the heroes’s new supposed power-ups is insane cuz why would anyone get invested? They spent five entire seasons on the first arc only to have pretty much all the relevant “buildup” occur during the final season in the form of back to back retcons and had it all culminate in the heroes losing

And sure, endings where the heroes lose can still be exciting, satisfying, and, in weird ways, cathartic, but the only audience members that came out winning with that finale where those who particularly related to abusive shithead fathers and don’t care about what the narrative could mean to other demographics

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I'm not dead, I just have nothing to post on this side blog rn. Also I've been busy watching Precure

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Have you softened on Adrien?

Sort of? I kinda feel bad for the guy after the shitshow that was season 5. I still think the writers and fandom like him too much that issue has less to do with Adrien himself and more with how people react him. I realized that what I hate is Adrien's writing rather than the character himself so that led to me soften up on him.

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Red Moon (not gonna bother remembering its "-ion" title) was a terrible concept.

Why Marinette isn't traumatized by Felix basically pulling a Chat Blanco (expect with full control of himself). You know, seeing an empty Paris and experiencing death (instead of seeing her dusted corpse).

Are the writer are going acknowledge Red Moon ever again? Felix is a murderer. An indiscriminate murderer. Her friends' murderer. Her murderer.

Besides the common aspects of Chat Blanco and Red Moon, I'd argue Red Moon was written worse for the plot. Felix straight up killed Gabriel (accomplished his goal) in this episode, but needs Marinette (the girl he thought he killed permanently) to stop Gabriel in the finale.

I like Felix as a concept, and partially in execution. However, he basically always has the ability to end the plot, even before gaining the Peacock. That was alright when he was a dark gray "third-party" with an ambiguous goal around "me and my mom," but now he's supposedly always been heroic with an expansion to protecting "Adrien and his lover."

Yeah... Season 5 pretty much ruined Felix for me, I liked him better when he was just an asshole. The arc they tried to give him did not work since most of it happened off-screen and his redemption feels more hypocritical when Chloe gets shit on for doing less evil things than Felix

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Extreme Adrien salters and Marinette salters aren’t even two sides of the same coin, at this point they’re the exact same side

Both say that their characters are victims of terrible writing, and yet can’t extend that to the other half, their terrible writing is just their character, or rather “____ is the writer’s darling!”

The problem is both Adrien and Marinette (and everyone else but this is about these two) are victims of terrible writing. Not only that, but their bad writing tend to negatively affect the other, and every other character, like the densest black hole trapping everyone within its field. Both need to stay in the molds the writers made for them, and the second they try to expand from that? The literal universe punishes them (ex. Marinette being pushed to be into Adrien from all sides even when she’s trying to move on and Adrien destroying everything the second he finds out anything about his family)

Taking some time away from the show and coming back to look at it from a more overall critical view has shown me how often the writing is literally fighting itself right in front of you. And it’s still losing

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Do you think that there's the possibility that official Miraculous could be "fixed*?

I mean, is it possible to use what already exists to fix it without a reboot?

Nothing short of a complete reboot will be able to fix this mess, sadly. 5 seasons worth of garbage is not something any show can recover from.

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Forgiveness in Miraculous

The main issue I have with the redemption in ML is that redemption = forgiveness

The fact that characters get redeemed/forgiven/absolved when they haven’t done anything to warrant any of that: they simply change their mind and oh they’re good now! The good guys fully accept them as good too!

The characters who are “redeemed” so far have not put in the work to be redeemed

Literally the only character I can think of who did something bad and is actively putting in the work to be better and be there was fucking Jagged Stone

Felix barely did shit to be actually be a better person, and yet Kagami’s vouch for him is supposed to be our indication that he’s redeemed, not only that but he’s on the team!

Nathalie changed her mind, then changed it back to continue helping Gabe, then changed her mind again at the last possible moment, and she’s just chilling at the end with Marinette not doing anything about it, somehow that’s our indication that she’s redeemed (if it turns out Marinette forgot because of the wish somehow someone please throw a brick at my head)

Andre literally hasn’t even tried to act better or be better, and he’s completely absolved from all his actions because “he’s sowwy!” At least the other two characters tried doing something at the end, he didn’t do shit!

I am aware that them being better people could come around in season 6, but that’s not my issue. My issue is how they are treated as already redeemed without them putting in any work whatsoever!

It’s so ironic that the writers rag on Chloe because they say she only did good things because of selfish reasons, when the redemptions for the other characters literally amount to them changing their mind and that’s it

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Miraculous and Redemption

You know, I think I understand what my issue is with this show’s stance on redemption. It’s not specifically who gets the redemption, even the hypocrisy of who does or doesn’t get redemption/forgiven is only one part of the issue.

It’s specifically how they treat the characters who don’t get redemption.

I have seen, in media, where terrible characters who’ve done terrible things get a redemption, and the mean characters, who are just mean, don’t change at all. That’s fine! People are complex, some change and some don’t, some have done horrible things and some are just school yard bullies. It’s fine to showcase this, I mean hell, in the Owl House, Boscha was still an asshole in season 2, and this was past the point that characters like Lilith were forgiven (Lilith isn’t really terrible in Season 1, she just has done a lot worse than Boscha)

Miraculous’s massive issue with this, however, is that the narrative/the authors treats those mean characters as worse than those characters who’ve done horrible things.

I mean, what other media has one of the creators say that some high school bully is comparable to Trump when her literal rich, corrupt, politician father is right fucking there?

Usually the media where a terrible person is redeemed and the mean character isn’t doesn’t treat it as a moral issue. It’s not “oh well this person can’t change” or “oh this person is even worse!” It’s usually “they’re mean, and that’s annoying, but oh well”. That media never treats the character like Satan incarnate, or treats their meanness compared to actual villainy as a moral issue. When characters are around them, they aren’t treating that mean character as literal scum compared to the former villain, the narrative doesn’t treat them as more than an annoyance or, for lack of better words, “small fry”. I mean, while Owl House acknowledged that Boscha was still a prick in season 2, they didn’t act like she was worse than Belos.

Miraculous treats Chloe and Lila, some petty, mean teenagers, as the literal devil compared to other characters. Lila is a master manipulator who somehow convinced 3 people she’s their daughter and has a trillion disguises! It doesn’t matter that that twist came out of nowhere, and it makes it a little weird that this teenager has multiple disguises that she uses around the city apparently, one where she looks like a 20 year old, making people theorize she’s an adult because how on earth is she smart enough or resourceful enough to do this. Chloe is a villain comparable to Gabe, even when she was a hero! Her backstory doesn’t justify any of her actions, but for literally everyone else, we are going to justify their actions! If they don’t do that, they’ll just sweep their actions under the rug completely! It doesn’t matter that she’s consistently being manipulated by the fully grown adults around her, she’s terrible don’t think about it! She neglected her father somehow (???????????????????) so it’s fully justified to send her off with her abusive mother! We aren’t even going to acknowledge that Andre literally had a part in raising her and her turning out this way, because somehow he did no wrong! And what sucks is that it’s succeeding at making those characters appear that way, because some fans are completely genuine when they say that Gabriel is more sympathetic than them. I mean, if you frequent the Reddit (which you absolutely shouldn’t, one way or another it will melt your brain), you’ll consistently see character rankings with Gabriel, Lila, Tomoe, and Chloe in the same category. Somehow the show put the bullies in the same categories as the literal abusive terrorist and his helper in these people’s eyes. You will constantly see these literal teenagers be put on the same category as adults who have done infinitely worse. Even Andre, who is a corrupt politician and terrible role model and literally RAISED CHLOE… is “woobified” by some fans, even going as far to say that Chloe abused him! Nevermind how that would even be possible when she was like, 5-7 when her mom left! I can’t point my fingers at the fans for this though, because the show goes out of its way to place all of its sympathy on the adults, even when they don’t deserve it, EVEN WHEN THE PAST WRITING LITERALLY PAINTS THEIR ACTIONS AS BAD

(It also doesn’t help that the fully grown adult’s actions are all forgiven but god forbid you’re terrible as a teenager, then you’ll get sent off to live with your verbally abusive mother while your basically deadbeat father adopts your half sister literally right after wiping his hands of you)

I will talk about the hypocrisy in redemption at some point, and how bias and forgiveness is handled, but godDAMN, this sucks

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How do you feel about what they did with Felix in Season 5?

I hated it. I liked Felix better when he was a full time bastard instead of whatever the fuck he was made into in season 5, Felix did not deserve a redemption arc and he didn't need one, he was fine as he was! I loved how he was just terrible to everyone!.

And Feligami is just trash, it's such a bland and forced relationship, there's nothing to like about this damn couple.

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The Season 5 finale really had Gabriel win the battle between him and Ladybug and acted like it was a good thing, huh?

Basically, yeah