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Video interviews with Ettinger, and his fellow cast members of the Off-Broadway hit, “Bad Jews” in 2012.

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https://www.rogerebert.com/interviews/sitting-in-the-undefined-philip-ettinger-on-the-evening-hour

(Archiving interview here, in case the link at RogerEbert.com expires in the future.)

Sitting in the Undefined: Philip Ettinger on The Evening Hour - Carlos Aguilar (July 29,2021)

With a timid smile, Philip Ettinger searches for the proper words to articulate the profound longing that shapes many of the men he’s played. An actor on the fastback (fast track?) to stardom since his showstopping performance in Paul Schrader’s “First Reformed” as a pessimistic environmental terrorist, Ettinger radiates unpretentiousness and friendly warmth teeming with curiosity.

He can take the part of a seemingly unremarkable everyday man and imbue him with behavioral details and intimate wounds that turn words on a page into flesh and blood. That’s precisely what he does in the independent drama “The Evening Hour,” a Sundance Film Festival 2020 selection from director Braden King adapted by screenwriter Elizabeth Palmore from the novel by author Carter Sickels.

Ettinger projects his humble complexity onto the role of Cole, an aide at a nursing home, devoted grandson, caring boyfriend, and prescription medication dealer in a small community in Appalachia. ”You can be two things at the same time,” said Ettinger about his character’s many lives in convergence within this narrative, one where religion and loyalty are active participants.

Ravaged by the opioid crisis, but with few means of escape from it, the people around Cole are all directly or indirectly being benefited or affected by the illegal consumption. When his lifelong friend Terry (Cosmo Jarvis) returns to town and begins to stir up trouble, the quiet leading man’s livelihood is disrupted. Simultaneously, Cole’s emotional stability is shattered as his estranged mother reaches out to rebuild their broken bond. A storm brews for him on all fronts.

“It's easier for me to play someone who has insecurities or strong personal struggles or who has a hard time expressing themselves,” explained the actor about his predilection for embattled souls instead of traditionally valiant warriors. In this recent interview, Ettinger considers Cole’s motivations and his interest in stories of reexamined masculinity and relationships that defy classification.

Being originally from New Jersey, did you find the part of the country where the movie takes place, Appalachia, distant from your own experience or were there points of connection that helped you understand the social dynamic you were portraying?

The thing that I related to was Cole. I feel like he's got a big heart and he has a lot of things to say, but he holds them inside, which is, I think, part of the culture over there. He's someone who's just kind of filled with so many questions and maybe not so many answers. Although I grew up in a very different place, I understood his heart and his emotional core. I understand what it is to feel like you have to protect yourself and be a survivor. I understand what it feels like to have a lot to say, but having a wall of protection between how you feel and how you come off to the outside world. I'm from north Jersey, so it was a very different kind of environment. But I feel as human beings we're all more similar than we are different. I went there, felt the speed of the place, put on the clothing, and sat with the people who live there. You have to understand and respect that stuff. Cole just happened to be born in that place during that time, like I could have. That could have been me.

He definitely defies whatever preconceived notions one may have about men from these communities, even if he still abides by the culture of suppressing his emotional needs.

What I love that was in Carter's book is that it showed a different type of masculinity, what it means to be the man of the house or his relationship to Terry, which I feel was very fluid. Cole is such a seeker in a way. He's not really sure who he is yet. And I thought a lot about it when we shot it and reading the script. You don't really know who you are until you leave the place that you come from, if that makes any sense. He's got this yearning to understand who he is and what he wants. I just loved how things weren't defined in the script. He's just got a relationship with all these different people. He's got a lot on his shoulders and he's trying to get through one day at a time. In researching or watching movies that deal with this part of the country, so much of it is just so stereotypical. They clearly have problems going on and I feel like they've been left behind a lot by this country. So I love the fact that in the script no one is good or bad. Cole, for example, buys and sells prescription medication, but he's not some villain. He's just trying to survive. They're all real people and there's just a kindness to the area and to the story that I thought was really unique and beautiful.

Cole is also a multifaceted character, and his personality depends on whom he’s talking to. It’s almost like he has multiple personalities. But in the series “I Know This Much is True” you actually play two different characters. Did you find any parallels between these two experiences? Not sure what you shot first.

Soon after finishing “The Evening Hour” I shot “I Know This Much is True.” That's interesting. I didn't even think about that. What I will say is that Cole is such a receiver. He has a hard time expressing himself. It was so amazing for me to work every single day just taking in the actor in front of me, even beyond the script and just take on their energy and absorb them. It's a beautiful thing when you're the lead of a movie, especially with an internal character, to show up and get to sponge every different type of person who comes in and let that flow, wherever that leads. In something like playing Dominic and Thomas, it's interesting because Thomas is someone who I think can't hold in how he feels. That was such a nice catharsis to just fully be able to express my gut with Thomas after just having to contain everything with Cole and ground it in a culture that doesn't really speak their emotions. They don’t hold their emotions on their sleeves all the time. It was definitely a nice release for me to move from that to the other one. It's so funny because in every single job that you do, you pick up certain pieces and carry them with you. I would have done “I Know This Much is True” totally differently if I hadn't just done “The Evening Hour” beforehand.

How would you describe your approaches as an actor? Do you want to transform into someone completely different or do you find pieces of yourself in the character you are playing?

I can be pretty insecure and in order for me to fully engage with something, I have to be as present as possible and just try to be a vessel. I need to find something that has purpose. In going down the rabbit hole of things, I work more in the subconscious than the conscious I work with dreams often. I try to find physicality to the part. But for the most part, I don't know why I approach something. It approaches me and there's something in me that I need to express. Often I don't even understand why until I finished. “The Evening Hour,” “First Reformed,” “I Know This Much is True,” all of those were so important to me on an emotional level. I feel like I am all three of those characters. As an actor, you get to lean into a part of you that in my everyday life sometimes it's hard to do. I give myself permission to go to places, to really dive into an emotion, or see what it would feel like to be in a different scenario.

What I get from what you're saying is that in playing those emotions, that perhaps in your day-to-day life are difficult to pinpoint, through these characters they become clearer.

You're searching, man. Every job is an experiment and you get a whole bunch of people who have an idea of how they feel about the script, which is great. You have those conversations and then when you're in it, you're just creating. And hopefully everyone involved is learning on a deeper level why they're even there, like what it all means anyway, that's to me the best part. Working with someone like Braden or Derek Cianfrance, they're just seekers and they just want to discover a moment. It's all about trying to represent emotions that are truthful enough so that if anyone watches and relates on any level and there's that connection, that's what it's all about, man. I grew up going through my own stuff and anytime I watched a movie and it looked like something that I was feeling, it made me feel less alone in the world. It's funny, even doing press for this thing; I'm meeting you over zoom. We're separated from each other and I do this to feel a connection between everyone. What's the point of being here other than trying to connect, feel less alone, and find a common ground?

On that note, spirituality seems to run deep in “The Evening Hour.” Not only in how often bible verses are quoted throughout, but also in the way it’s shot, with the bright light of day washing over the land. Do you consider yourself a spiritual person and do you recognize that spirituality in the film?

I definitely consider myself a spiritual person. I believe in the connection between all of us. We shot in Harlan County, Kentucky where you get a 360 view of the Appalachian Mountains around you. It's beautiful. Time is slower there. The colors are a little brighter. People look you in the eye and everyone's just a little more present. I just tried to absorb that as much as possible. There's a scene in the movie where Cole walks into his grandfather’s church and he gets emotional in that moment. That’s a real church. It's been there for a long time. I walked in there, and it wasn't even a scripted thing, and just felt the energy of that the space. It moved me, man. Those are the cool things as an actor. That was unplanned and it was such a beautiful experience for me because I was really opening myself enough to feel the energy in the room. The movie deals a lot with religion, but I love the fact that spirituality can be deep rooted and it's a beautiful thing. There are parts of that to which he really connects to and then there are things that he has to do that maybe go against his faith a little bit. In the whole script everything is present, but nothing is judged as good or bad. I felt like a really special, spiritual production. We were all letting it speak to us in a way.

Thinking about that I’m reminded of your character in “First Reformed,” Michael, who is on the other extreme side of the spectrum when it comes to faith. Did playing him challenge or made you reconsider your own beliefs? It's such a scene-stealing performance.

Thanks, man. I had that long scene, it was like 18 pages when we shot it with Ethan and it's crazy because I look back on that time and it feels like a memory of a real conversation. I love playing these characters, like Michael in “First Reformed.” He has so much love inside of him, but also walks the line of what it feels like when you've exhausted your hope and you've fallen into despair. I love these complex characters. The things that Michael does you can judge in a certain way, but it's very rare that any of us are bad people. We're all just trying to find connection and love and meaning in this world. And it's complicated. Cole also does things that he compartmentalizes in his brain, but he knows it's not good, but also he's just trying to find a way and life just gets complicated. It's not so cut and dry, sometimes there's so much grayness to it. It's interesting for me because I have more questions than answers in my own life, so it's cool that I've been able to play roles that have help me try to seek purpose and understand why we're here. Not to get like too deep. I don't know about you man, but there are relationships or family members or people in my life that I may have had resentments towards, but as you get older you realize everyone is just trying to do their best.

Could Cole and Michael have an interesting conversation if they met?  

That's so interesting. I wonder how much actual dialogue would go on between the two of them, but I feel like they would have a really nice time sitting together, being in a space together. That's really nice to think about.

You mentioned it briefly earlier, but I wanted to dig deeper into the relationship between Cole and Terry. The friendship between these two men is very tender, in a way that’s not often seen in films depicting their environment. The ways they express their affection is also very physical, which surprised me.

That was such a beautiful thing to read in the script. It was so subtle and nuanced. I love the fact that his relationship with Terry is undefined. Cole was just trying to figure out who he is and find love. I don't know if he knows who he is or how he feels yet. That makes me think about Carter, who wrote the book and his whole story. I don't know how much you know about Carter, but he transitioned. He is a trans man and he wrote this book, “The Evening Hour,” where the lead character is this male figure who has an undefined relationship with a friend of his and also relationships with women. I love that it's a different take on masculinity or what a male relationship is, especially in that environment. I was watching a YouTube interview with Mark Rylance, from not too long ago, and he talked about how he rarely sees movies or plays where people are living in confusion. So often we're going through life and we're not really sure how we feel sometimes, I love the fact that there's a lot of history in this movie and Cole is trying to figure out how he feels about stuff. In those scenes between Cosmo and I there’s what we're saying to each other and then there's the story beneath all that stuff. I just played with him and let myself get out of my own ideas and how society wants to label everything, and just be present with this person in this moment with all this history and see how we both feel. I don't know if I'm making any sense with what I'm saying, but it’s rare to play a relationship that sits in a space of grayness. It was really beautiful.

Do you have any thoughts on “Hillbilly Elegy,” since it’s another recent book and film that portrays this side of America? Personally, I find “The Evening Hour” to be a far superior take.

I appreciate that. I didn't see it. But at Sundance we had a bunch of people from Harlan who came out and supported us, and I think they have a more strong opinion on the subject matter. Someone I worked with on “One Dollar” who was from that area, I actually sent him the script, and he said the same thing. He felt that it was more real to life and to the heart of the place than “Hillbilly Elegy.” But I haven't read the book or seen the film, but I appreciate him saying that. For me, the major thing was that they embraced us and a lot of them are in the movie. Braden definitely spent a lot of time over there and made connections. Everything was done with a lot of love and respect, so I hope it was so exciting for so many of them to come out to Sundance when we premiered and to get their approval and that maybe they feel a little bit more seen. If we were able to tell a story that felt truthful to them, then that’s an awesome thing.

https://www.rogerebert.com/contributors/carlos-aguilar

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A post shared by Jamaica Knauer (@jamaicaknauer)

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Philip Ettinger appears in a new 16 minute short film by Ian Barling called, “Safe”.  It will have its premiere at the prestigious Cannes Film Festival in July.  It stars Will Patton, (Philip plays Patton’s wayward son).  The film also stars Noa Fisher, and Skip Sudduth among others.  I look forward to the day it will be available for all to view. :)

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Through May 19th, pay what you're able, to see the terrific play “Bad Jews” by Joshua Harmon, being performed by three of the original four cast members.  It’s funny, confronting, and ultimately moving.  

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Strand Releasing has loaded up publicity photos in preparation of their release of “The Evening Hour,” which will consist of screenings of the film, a dvd release, and through VOD via Google Play, Amazon Instant Video, iTunes, and Vudu.  

Ettinger is pictured in some of these photos with British actor, Cosmo Jarvis     (”Lady Macbeth”).

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This examination of “First Reformed,” is incredibly illuminating. It enriches my understanding of what is being said by explaining HOW it’s being said. I’m grateful.

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Philip Ettinger in the cinematic adaptation of Carter Sickels’ novel, “The Evening Hour,” directed by Braden King.  A Spring release was the most recent news I have heard.

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Philip Ettinger, Braden King, Michael Trotter, and Kerry Bishe interviewed about “The Evening Hour”.

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(Above:  Ettinger and Ruffalo after a performance of Awake and Sing! in 2006).

Mark Ruffalo and Philip Ettinger on Playing Four Versions of the Same Two Characters in I Know This Much Is True

By Mark Ruffalo for “Interview” magazine

May 19, 2020

What do we want from entertainment when the outside world feels so bleak? Are we in search of a balm, or more salt to pour on our wounds? For Mark Ruffalo and Philip Ettinger, the answer leans toward the latter, which makes their new HBO miniseries I Know This Much Is True perfectly tuned to the moment. Ruffalo stars in the writer and director Derek Cianfrance’s six-part adaptation of Wally Lamb’s 1998 novel, playing Dominick and Thomas Birdsey, identical twin brothers who couldn’t be more different. In the show’s first episode, Thomas, a paranoid schizophrenic, severs his own hand in a public library as a sacrifice to god, and the story refuses to let up from there, skipping back and forth in time as it digs into the traumas that have left these brothers so broken. Ettinger, a 34-year-old actor who mined similarly grim territory as a radical environmentalist in 2017’s First Reformed, plays college-age versions of the Birdsey twins, which meant he not only had two play two characters, but also sync his performances to match Ruffalo’s, an actor he grew up idolizing. Here, Ruffalo and Ettinger connected a day after the show’s premiere to discuss why challenging art is better suited to challenging times, and the cathartic experience of bringing this dark story to light. —BEN BARNA

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PHILIP ETTINGER: How are you doing?

MARK RUFFALO: I’m doing okay, man. I’m feeling really fucking raw today and vulnerable, like I went on a bender and peed on my girlfriend’s parents’ coffee table, thinking that I was having a great time. And then I’m waking up the next morning just saying to myself, “Oh, fuck. What have I done?”

ETTINGER: [Laughs] I re-watched the premiere last night, and it’s much easier to see it a second time. I couldn’t even process it the first time I watched it.

RUFFALO: How did you nail me as Dominick? It’s uncanny to see someone doing a version of me—and doing it so well.

ETTINGER: That means a lot coming from you. I told you this before, but I wrote you a letter when I was doing This Is Our Youth in acting school because you’ve always been an actor that I’ve looked up to [Ruffalo starred in the Kenneth Lonergan play when it premiered off-Broadway in 1996]. I connected to you more than any actor, the way that you led with vulnerability and an open heart. When this audition came up, to play a younger you, it felt like the universe was handing me something. I watched every interview you’ve ever done, and before every night of shooting, I watched your scenes from You Can Count On Me, because I tried to use that as a template for my version of Dominick.

RUFFALO: I think that Dominick is kind of the 52-year-old version of Terry [Ruffalo’s character in You Can Count On Me], in a weird way.

ETTINGER: That’s so interesting. You’ve gone on to have such an expansive career, and you’re just coming off of the Avengers movies. Does this feel like you’re coming back home in a way?

RUFFALO: Kind of, yeah, because it’s about family, it’s working class, it’s in a small town. It’s real people dealing with real problems in really human ways, and it’s a guy who’s very tough, but there’s something beautiful and sensitive about him. It’s the kind of material I was doing before I did Avengers. It’s probably what I relate to the most. Will it be as popular? Probably not. But as an actor, it’s very meaningful to me. You were shooting Thomas before I did, and you really showed me so much of that character. I don’t know if you could see it, but I was pulling directly from you. And then we had that amazing walk with each other when we met that night, and talked about these two guys and tried to integrate our performances. That was really special. Not many actors would be willing to do that, and I really appreciate you opening yourself up and being vulnerable and the give-and-take that we shared in that 40-block walk.

ETTINGER: I think it happened right before I was about to start shooting, and I was totally shitting-my-pants nervous. Like you said, I was playing Thomas first, and I wanted to make my own choices and follow my instinct. But I’m in support of you, and I wanted to be in service of your performance. That night you opened your heart to me, and it’s a thing I’ll never forget. We were just walking the city streets finding it together. And I didn’t even know this, but one day before I’d play Dominick, I’d do pushups. And then then I found out that you did pushups before—

RUFFALO: Every take.

ETTINGER: The energy was so special on that set. Derek [Cianfrance] sets up a playground where you feel like you’re one organism trying to tell a story. Things would happen that were way past intellectual choices. I’m not a good impressionist, I can’t try to copy you. I just trusted that the energy would work itself out.

RUFFALO: Did you prefer playing one character more than the other?

ETTINGER: With Dominick I would get so angry and frustrated, and then I’d go to my trailer and change into Thomas, and I got to be as present and open and empathetic as possible. So it felt freeing. There’s something about Thomas, he just tells the truth, and sees with a certain type of clarity that’s not fogged up by other things. How about you?

RUFFALO: You had it much more difficult than me because you were doing both characters on the same day. How beautiful and delineated those two performances are is mindblowing. But I had a similar experience. Dominick, like you said, has this armor, he has to project strength, and he uses violence as the final way to resolve an issue, whether it’s emotional or physical. When I started to play Thomas, Derek was like, “Let your stomach go.” And I was like, “What?” And he’s like, “Let your stomach go, man. Stop holding in your stomach!” And I was like, “I’m not holding in my stomach!” And I realized I’ve been holding my stomach in my whole life as a show of masculinity, that I have this strong core, that if someone just came up and punched me in the stomach, I’d be able to take the punch. I’ve spent my whole life on-the-ready in that way. And Thomas is so soft in the stomach. He shows his belly, that softness, that vulnerability. He has a kind of freedom about who he is. I mean, the guy cuts his fucking hand off. We shot that scene on September 11, and when I came in and sat down in the coffee shop, we all took a moment of silence. In the moment of silence, I started praying, spontaneously, just like Thomas started talking, and he was praying for America. And I started to realize that if we had listened to Thomas, we wouldn’t be where we are today. The world would be a different place. The Iraq war would have never happened. We probably wouldn’t have had a second term of Bush. We wouldn’t have had the division in the country that has led to Trump. It’s just so funny that that character who we all write off as crazy, or who we’re afraid of, was so prescient to know what was right.

ETTINGER: What is normal? We’ve created a whole society of structure and time and these jobs we have to do, and that is what makes us important. Yes, there’s a part of Thomas that can flip into extreme paranoia, but I made the decision that it stems from an impulse of ultimate truth. Like you said, he’s right on his impulse. He might take it too far, but there’s a part of him that is way more truthful and way more knowing than almost everyone else around him.

RUFFALO: Did you read the book?

ETTINGER: I read half of the book while I was reading the scripts, and then I put it aside. I’ve saved the other half of the book until this all passes so I can have my own moment with it.

RUFFALO: I totally understand the impulse of wanting to find it on your own. What was working with Derek like?

ETTINGER: When I met with you in the diner, the one thing you said to me was, “Don’t worry, he doesn’t move on until he has what he’s looking for.” I love how Derek is constantly chasing lightning in a bottle, and the ultimate truth. And you think you have it one way, and then he just pushes you into a whole different thing so far beyond anything that I can intellectually think about. It’s the greatest.

RUFFALO: It’s so satisfying and so scary.

ETTINGER: He has such a fine-tuned impulse for watching actors and then pushing them in the right direction. You’ve just got to be game.

RUFFALO: Do you think the material is too heavy for this moment?

ETTINGER: I was wondering how people would take this story during the time that we’re in, but I’ve mostly been watching stuff that has a lot of heart and has a lot of pain and has people struggling to survive. I think everyone has felt pain on many different levels, and I’ve always felt a sense of comfort and a sense of being less alone when I watch truthful stories that deal with real-life shit. I’m at a point in my life where I’m trying to be honest with my own traumas and pain, and it’s interesting how the projects that I’ve done lately have been more of an internal dive into some difficult stuff.

RUFFALO: Everyone wants to be hysterical right now, to just laugh themselves off the fucking cliff, but what I see is a world that’s full of a lot of pain and suffering and loss. And to tell the truth about that in art is a cathartic act, a reminder of who we are as human beings in a moment when I feel like this world we’re living in now is post-human, where the technology is actually leaving mankind behind. The digital image is so packed full of information that our eyes can’t even see all of the information that it’s recording. We can’t keep up with it, and we’re living in our shallow social media selves that are only projected versions of ourselves, but not real or human in any way. So find something that really tells the truth about the human experience, about loss, about love, about connection, about responsibility to each other, about fighting for something—all those things are a good reminder of what it is to be a human being in a time that’s so dehumanizing.

ETTINGER: I feel like such an important part of the struggle of just living is to feel connected to each other, to understand that we aren’t alone.

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Archiving this interview in full, in case the link to the magazine that I posted earlier, expires sometime in the future.

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Just wanting to archive entire interview, in case it ever gets removed from Flaunt’s website.

JULY 20, 2020

FLAUNT Q&A | PHILIP ETTINGER INTERVIEWED BY MARGARET QUALLEY

BY MUI-HAI CHU

Philip Ettinger pierces through in his performance as younger identical twins Dominick and Thomas opposite Mark Ruffalo who plays the older brothers in HBO’s acclaimed drama I Know This Much is True.

Ettinger has previously been seen in a myriad of acclaimed festival films. From Sebastián Silva’s Tyrel, opposite Michael Cera and Christopher Abbott, which premiered at the 2018 Sundance Film Festival to Paul Schrader’s independent thriller First Reformed, opposite Amanda Seyfried and Ethan Hawke to The Pirates of Somalia with Al Pacino. Ettinger has also graced the stage, where he’s received a Lucille Lortel Award (correction - nomination) for Outstanding Supporting Actor for Bad Jews.

For Flaunt, he catches up with bestie Margaret Qualley as they discuss his latest breakout performance in I Know This Much is True.

Margaret: Phil.

Phil: (laughs) Margaret.

So you were saying to me on the phone that you are tired and didn’t sleep well.

Yea, I don’t know. I feel like every day is totally different. Last night, I couldn’t fall asleep until 5:30. So I am a little tired, but I am okay.

But now you are sitting by a pool and life is pretty great because you are by a pool?

Definitely. A lot to be grateful for. I am by a pool and there is sun.

It’s so clear in my mind, it’s almost like I’ve been there.

It’s almost like you were here a couple days ago.

It’s almost like I was there a couple nights ago with a mask and 6 feet away from you.

Totally, all the social distance precautions.

Yes.

How are you? Are you tired?

This is my interview for you. But I am great.  Let’s get to business. So there is a lot going on in the world. And it is too much to address. Or I just don’t even know how or where to begin. I kind of want to live in a bubble with you for a minute and just ask you about yourself and the show.  Is that alright with you?

Definitely.

Okay, so Phil. Holy cow. This show is incredible– just so phenomenal. And I have always known that, I always have known how incredible you are and have seen you shine. But something about this role feels particularly special. Like working with Mark Ruffalo and Derek Cianfrance was in the stars for you. Does that resonate in any way?

Yea, for sure. I mean, I have already said this before, but if there is one actor who I’ve looked up to or whos kind of energetic disposition I related to, it was Marks. Like, when I was in acting school, I wrote him a letter and told him how inspired I was. And I went to deliver it to the stage door when he was doing Awake and Sing on broadway. It is kind of crazy that I get to collaborate with him this. I don’t know… we’ve talked a lot about this… Just opening your heart and trying to be as truthful as possible in life. And also in your work. There is literally no one better to be in the hands of pertaining to that other than Derek Cianfrance. All he is looking for from his actors is truth of emotion and connection. It was just amazing. It’s kind of been a little bit of a come down after finishing shooting. It was definitely an inspiring and cathartic experience.

But no, you will just work with this guy for the rest of your life. He’s a movie soulmate.

Ha yeah that sounds good to me. Derek, if you’re reading this what’s our next thing?? ….. Every project has its own different unique thing. This one was so familial. Even though I wasn’t in scenes with a lot of the main cast because my stuff takes place in flashbacks - I watch it and I am so connected to everyone who I didn’t even get to work with in a way that is really special to me. It’s really cool.

Well you can feel that in the show. You can feel how connected you were to him. That is one of the things that really blew me away. You were able to capture the essence of him. And on top of that, your physicality, your voice, everything really goes hand in hand with Mark Ruffalo. Part of that can be attributed to who you are as a person, but you can tell you freakin’ did the work.

That is awesome that you say that. I am too close to this– I can’t really tell, but I am glad that you think so.

Yea, I just wonder what you did to figure out that physicality? I don’t know, did you do some kind of dream work or something?

Ha I’ve obviously told you this already…Mark this person he works with who is awesome. She works with dreams.. And we all did it. Mark, me, Derek. You gotta believe in it for it to work. But you kind of ask for your inner self and the universe and yadda yadda, to kind of just, like, show you what you’re looking for in the character. It’s hard to really explain in words and capture what it really is… The way that we shot– Mark shot all of Dominik’s parts and then took a month off and gained 50 pounds.

But you didn’t have that luxury, you had to switch back and forth?

Yea, I was switching back and forth the entire time. The thing was that I was the first one playing Thomas. And in preparation and figuring out who Thomas was I had specific dreams that felt really personal and real. Physicalities were coming from it.

Too personal to mention in an interview?

I don’t want to get that specific. Mostly in the instinctual realm when I’m acting, I am too nervous or insecure to make choices and commit to them in my head and then pull them off. I need to, like, somehow find it in my body and my impulse, and then shut my brain off and run with it.

You can see that. I think that is who you are in life. In life, you are someone who can’t really operate in an inauthentic way. You are yourself in every environment. That plays out in your performance. I was particularly impressed by your physicality and the differentiation between being Thomas and Dominik.

Basically, I had these ideas for Thomas. So I met up with Mark uptown (NYC), and we talked for a while. I was like, dude, i am really nervous because I have these ideas for the character. I have been doing these dreams. Basically, he said “Let’s take a walk because I am having dreams too.” So we got outside and we walk 60 blocks and we go in and out of character. The crazy thing is me and him were already having similar dreams. It was so bizarre. We were already so aligned. That night we had a walk all over New York City and meshed our physicalities, our interpretations, as well as we would just walk for 10 blocks and talk about life.

And make out, and keep walking.

Ha ha ha. Verrry funny Margaret…. But I don’t know, we kind of connected on a personal and emotional level. I just trusted that the connection was there because I am not good at impersonations… And I watched some of his dailies from playing Dominik.

I wouldn’t say you are not good at impersonations, rather that you are not interested in them.

I don’t know, I don’t think I am good at it. I have other skills.

That sounds very beautiful and very special and that makes sense. Completely makes sense having seen the show. Absolutely feel that. What was the audition process like?

Funny you should ask… Initially I didn’t even know about it. You forwarded me an email.

This whole thing is a humble brag. Minus the humble part. No, when I read this though I thought, you have to do this. There is not another person that can.

I just got an email that you forwarded to me that said you’re going to get this part. I didn’t even have the audition yet before you saying this to me. I didn’t even know about. I look at the character and it’s a young Mark ruffalo, playing twins, based on this great book, dealing with a lot of meaningful dynamics and mental illness. So I said, I am in, sure. Thanks. Ha. But then when I read it and finally got an audition for it I was like “I don’t think I am going to get it.” And maybe I am just making this up, but I think I expressed to you my nerves

There was a moment where you didn’t want to make a tape for it, and I was like don’t be an idiot you are playing the part.

Here’s the thing though, I have trouble doing making tapes instead of auditioning in the room It is just the fact that my neurotic brain– I need to jump in the deep end. When I make tapes, I can’t get that focus. I need to be in the room. I am glad I didn’t make a tape for it. I waited to be back in town. They were seeing a lot of people. By the time I got back to New York, they saw me in the room and it worked out.

Here is the big question in the the room. What was that morning like for you? How did you get dressed that morning? Really what I am getting at is, how many pairs of underwear did you try on?

I’m OCD and only have 3 of 4 safe pairs of underwear ha. I have one shirt that I wear for most auditions. I have a logo on the front and I wear it inside out with the tag sticking out in the back. That’s my go-to audition shirt. And it worked out.

We can establish that we both have OCD.

Yes, we can relate on that a lot. Or at least some sort of anxiety.

And we both appreciate a uniform.

It can get pretty bad. I can really spin out from choosing which black shirt to wear and breaking down the nuance between each one. It can be stressful and a waste of time while I am doing that, but it can also be helpful when trying to break down emotion in a scene – that is when that part of your brain can actually be useful. I don’t know.

I feel that.

I grew up with my brother dealing with schizophrenic symptoms, and so I had a really strong sense on why I wanted to do this. I wanted to honestly tell that story and I also wanted to represent what it is like to be a family member of someone with mental illness– it was important to me to represent both of these sides accurately and not making them stereotypical or doing the whole cliche general crazy or anything.

I didn’t know how open you were going to be with bringing that to the interview but obviously. First of all, it makes me seem less cool for saying you have to do this part. But more importantly, your depiction of mental illness is done with such immense love, kindness and complexity, an intricacy that I haven’t really witnessed before. And I really, really appreciated it. You can’t watch the show and not have it hit your heart, not have it hit your gut. So, yeah. Hats off.

I mean this is a whole thing I have said too - What’s so cool about this story is that Thomas is clearly a truth teller. He can goes too far, and eventually becomes dangerous to himself. But the thing is– this was always an interesting angle for me– I grew up with my brother, and although he was kind of dealing with a lot of stuff… When you are that open in a way… Thomas doesn’t have a filter. He’s so empathetic to the energy around him that even though his thoughts can get away from him, the impulse of those thoughts are truth. Thomas is a truth seeker and a truth teller. What I found so beautiful with my brother and why he impacted me in such a positive way is that a lot of times he was the most truthful person that I knew. He saw me better than anyone saw me, because he really saw me. He needed help at the time and he’s doing great now, but I feel like that is rarely told in stories. It is usually told that schizophrenia is this crazy danger thing, you know, and this one is nuanced. Dominick is the one who makes a lot of bad decisions and gets really repressed and angry, which is also a real thing because it is confusing. Everyone is trying to survive with the tactics and tools that they have. I don’t know. I love how it’s so gray, and no one is 100% black or white. Everyone is trying.

It makes sense to me that your brother would see you so clearly because he is not abiding by social norms. He is just leading with his heart. He’s not wearing the same glasses.  

And to a certain extent, what is normal? Literally we’ve created time and jobs and money.

Gender.

Everything. And everything just to feel like we have purpose. I don’t know. This is getting too out there. In a way, I don’t know, I have also worked a bunch 1 to 1 with autisitic kids and adults. And it’s like, yes, maybe they don’t understand the world or see exactly like we are supposed to because society tells us that we need to act this or that way. But what is the normal thing? I have been doing digital therapy during quarantine, which has been helpful a lot. And I have been doing childhood regression exercises, and I did one kind of meditation to when I was four or five, and then another when I was thirteen. When you are four or five it is before you have been knocked around a little bit. You lose some trust. That security and freedom is beautiful in a way, like, we kind of lose it. A lot of us lose it. When I was thirteen I was insecure and scared and have gone through my own traumatic experiences– I am jumping around, but there is something about playing Dominick and Thomas that reminded me of these differences. Even in the same day, where I get to experience the same location and experience and just remove the filter when I am playing Thomas and take things in as personal and open my heart and let things affect me. Part of that is like why can’t we all be like this more often?

Absolutely. I feel like one of my biggest goals in life is to chase that inner kid that is in all of us. You know? And lead with my heart, and allow myself to be open and see the world with fresh eyes. A child’s perspective is so pure. I feel like I learn from kids more than I learn from adults.

Yeah.

But the thing you were saying about the childhood regression thing– I actually had a dream two nights ago that I saw my old self. I was walking down the street and I was looking for– I should not be saying this in an interview. I was looking at street signs and then I saw one that said “Sarah Margaret Qualley.” And then I walked up to the house and a woman opened the door and it was me as an old woman and we had a weird connection. It was very strange. I can send you the voice memo because I recorded it. And then I can call you back for therapy. I guess what I am trying to establish here is that Phil is just as equipped as any therapist that I have ever spoken to. And what I love about you, and I think this really translates into your work, is that you don’t take whatever the obvious route is. You end up tackling things from the side or from the foot or whatever and weaseling your way in there in a way that I wouldn’t have naturally done alone. And, Phil, you have no judgement. Like ever. Not that you won’t call me on my shit, which I really value. You’ll be like “Yes, that’s fucked up.” But at the same time, it is coming out of a place of love.

Thank you, Margaret.

You’re welcome, Phil.

I don’t know, I mean it’s too easy– especially with everything that is going on in the world right now– to filter through preemptively getting ready for someone to let you down, or hurt or offend you. I wish we could just give everyone else the benefit of the doubt and try to get through life listening and having a little less judgment. And often if we could trust each other more, then maybe everyone would get a long a little better. I wish we could all just respect each other. Unless you do something really terrible. What is the point of judging you? Because we are all trying to figure shit out. I don’t know. Um… Maybe I’m being naive, but I think there’s something in there. I don’t know….

No, yeah. I mean, yeah. I am going to kind of switch into something. I just wanted to talk about this one scene because I loved it. One of my favorite scenes in the whole show. Basically everything that takes place in that bar. Dominik and Thomas’s interaction. Thomas is met with bad news and he laughs. I think that it hit me because that is what I do too. And you don’t often see that. You’re just so pure. And that dance scene. I love seeing you loose, dancing like that. I have never seen you dance like that. Not that you aren’t loose and light, but that was like another level of freedom. What was it like to do that scene?

Well, what was cool about the dancing was I was having all these conversations with Derek and talking about personal history and my brother and different stuff. And he added that dance scene. That wasn’t in the original script.

What was it based on?

You know, it’s hard to– I don’t know how much I want to get into it.

Absolutely.

In that moment, he was expansive. He was taking up space. He almost inspires other people in the space to dance around him.

That is how I felt.

He gets horrible news. He is alone. He doesn’t know how to cope. He is a little bit drunk. Instead of having a breakdown scene, it was just like, “Why don’t we just have him dancing and expressing himself in a more primal way?” When I was doing it, I’ve never danced like that. I don’t care where I am or how many drinks I have had. To do that in a room full of 100 extras was so freeing and cool because you can really express yourself in ways that I am too afraid of as Phil because society has told me that I might be embarrassing or something.

Do you feel like after playing this role you would feel more inclined to do that?

I don’t know. I don’t think so, no. That is what’s so cool about what we do because when I am doing it, i just have to jump in the deep end and commit and do it and it feels great. And I was kind of fearless when I was doing it because I wasn’t thinking. But also that scene on the other side Dominick is looking at Thomas, and I think part of him is like “Fuck, I kind of wish I could do that.” But he could never do that. That dynamic shows that the one that is supposed to be the better one, or the one that is more sane or more put-together, he is kind of envious that Thomas is able to really express himself. When the whole time all Dominik does is repress all his feelings and anger. He is just breaking things when he is pissed off because he can’t deal with his own emotions. But yeah, that scene was crazy. And also, you know, that dance sequence works because right before it you get that moment with the two brothers trying to connect and communicate to each other from their different perspectives. I really love that scene and a lot of it was improv which was kind of crazy. I would shoot Dominick, go to Thomas, improv a lot, and go back to Dominick to respond to whatever I had just improv’d. It is funny that you said that scene because that one is really from the gut. I actually left that scene feeling really shitty that day.

I remember.

I think whenever you do something that is kind of scary, we kind of quantify what we think is the way we should do something, or what is a successful version of that day or that scene or something. But we are limiting ourselves because– I mean I left that day thinking, “Fuck this. I fucked it up.” But that is because it was scary. I felt scared and a little bit out of control of how I thought it would go, but in the end… it was a real moment and was something unexpected. Which is life.

Yeah, I always end up kind of disappointed in myself when I’m– or, it’s really nice to be surprised.

Yeah, totally. And especially talking about how we both deal with OCD or anxiety or something. It’s like I try so hard to control things. Things are going to go the way they are going to go anyways. The more I try and squeeze and control it, the less it’s like actually probably the good thing.

Right, a big thing for me in life is reckoning with the fact that ultimately we have no control, and that is really what the whole OCD thing is wrapped around. Trying to maintain some semblance  of control in a world in which we don’t have it. And it ends up being so much easier when you go with the flow, and you’re alright with it. Finding that is challenging.

Going back and working on this regression stuff of when I was a kid, I remember when I started really getting anxiety and OCD when I was like in fourth grade dealing with a lot of personal stuff. And it was for a sense of control when things felt a little unsafe or out of control. And it is so interesting how we carry this shit from our childhood and we Pile all these habits on top of it. And now we are who we are…. It’s nearly impossible to go and try and work on the types of project I like to work on without any self reflection and evaluation and all that shit, which is so cool. If you are approaching certain projects that challenge you, and you’re trying to be as truthful as possible, and search your core, then it forces you to evolve as a person. Or, hopefully.

Without a doubt, hopefully I am learning something everyday. No matter what, even if I feel terrible about a project, I always take something away internally.  I wanted to ask you what your family’s reaction to this was?

Yeah, I mean it’s interesting. My dad who– what is the best way of putting it?– isn’t always emotionally expressive in certain ways. Like, he’s been calling me after every episode and says “I think I’ve repressed a lot of feelings and emotions.” Which is beautiful to me. For me to hear. And it has opened up a whole conversation with my brother. It is such an interesting thing, also. I think in a weird way, my dad felt seen. What I love about this show too is that is shows the struggle of a family member really trying to make the right decisions. Doing the best you can, but not sure if you are doing the right thing or not. Trying to help someone, and how frustrating that can be. And not in a negative way, like that is just how it is. And I think that meant a lot to my dad. And for my brother, I think it was really nice for him to see, you know, a non judgemental version of that experience. I think that Derek did such a good job. Even in the writing, no one was fully right or wrong.

Right, and it’s complex.

And, yeah, and everyone was so on the level of opening their heart and truth. And bearing their gut in a way, that I don’t know. It just felt like– I don’t know. It felt like people were just sharing their truth. And, I know that– I don’t know. It’s a complicated question.

No, but that makes a lot of sense. Everyone is going to have a completely different experience, you know. Your dad is going to be hit in a certain way, your brother is going to be hit in a certain way, you’re hit in a certain way. And everyone finds their place in it. Or a couple places in it. I felt myself relating to Dominick, I felt myself relating to Thomas. We all play so many different roles in our lives. I think that is what good storytelling does. It allows you to walk away with whatever you want instead of hammering one thing in.

This whole time, I was wondering how people are going to take this story. It is intense, and emotional, and stuff. What is crazy is I’ve been getting messages from people– you know, we are all locked up, we are all kind of…. It is such a weird time. We are all connected but disconnected, and we all just yearn for contact, and human interaction, and emotion. I have been getting all these crazy messages that have been meaningful to me of people who have been watching this show for some kind of emotional and mental feeling and support and connection. Or people are relating through truth of emotion or struggle or pain. Dominick is trying so hard for a lot of the story to just see his brother. Be face to face. Like they can’t even physically be together. I don’t know. I feel like that is kind of relatable right now. It is just kind of cool because the more specific you get with yourself, and your emotion in a way, and your expression, this is kind of cliche, but the more universal it is to the people taking it in.

Absolutely.

It doesn’t even have to be the same story that someone goes through, but I watch something with someone that is really opening up and giving their own unique truth, and I feel it and connect to it. And it can reminds me of something totally different, but relevant to me. We all have the same emotions inside of us.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel like people always ask actors at the end of the interview what they want to do next and blah blah blah, but I am going to go ahead and assume– and correct me if I am wrong– that you don’t have a map for your career, and that really you are just listening to your instincts and following your gut. Or just, you know, waiting for an email from me. Just kidding.

Yeah, I guess so.

Unless there is something that you are already doing that you have actually found.

I mean, I have been banging around for a while. I have been acting professionally for 10 years now. And I think the first 8 years I had so much, I don’t know if it is insecurity or self doubt or self criticism, and I tried to control things. But that doesn’t really work. The more I just try to, like yeah, just trust my instincts. I honestly believe the more you kind of open yourself up to things, and be more specific with who you are, then things will come the way that they are meant to come. I don’t know. I want to do something that I can connect to and have purpose with. I don’t fucking know.

No, I think that makes sense. And ultimately it’s weird because when you do that, when you allow yourself to kind of be open in that place, you end up feeling like magic. I can even say that on a personal level with you, I feel connected to you and like we operate in a similar plane. Like the time when we were both living in New York, but happened to be in Los Angeles unbeknownst to each other and ended up being seated beside each other at a random theatre downtown. Or like, pretty much anytime– a couple of times I have been on the Upper East Side, which is a rare occasion for the both of us, and then we end up running into each other. Weird shit like that. Where you allow yourself to be open to these beautiful– I mean, coincidences?

I am so interested to see what this interview is going to look like on the page ha. I do believe we are all connected, and we are more similar than we are not. And, like, I don’t know. It sounds cheesy and shit, but if you’re open to it, I feel like we are so connected. It is not surprising that I will think about you and then you’ll call me. And we will be a block away from each other on the Upper East Side.

Right.

So random for the both of us. But, yeah. I don’t know. As long as you’re kind and can lead with an open heart, and you know, as much truth and love as possible, then … I don’t know, it’s like we try to control things. But they’re happening the way that they’re happening. We might as well just kind of like try to relax and be present and kind– let go of some of that anxiety and clinging to something, and maybe we can actually get along better, and like, stop trying to control everything.

I think we can just drop it there, and I can say that I love you from the bottom of my heart. I am also going to call you after to debrief and make sure I didn’t say anything wrong.

I just wanted to say what I think about you is that you’re also really nonjudgmental and special and I appreciate that we have a friendship where I never feel like I have to worry about what I am saying to you.

Of course not.

I feel like it is just a mutual support, and I don’t know. The world is a scary place so it is kind of nice to have people in your life that you feel like have your back and are looking out for you. It’s just all love.

I love you, Phil.

I love you, too.

Alright, are we all good here? Can I call you privately?

Photographed by Nolwen Cifuentes.

Styled by Jenny Ricker at A-Frame Agency.

Grooming by Kim Verbeck at The Wall Group.

Photo 1:  DUNHILL suit and FENDI sweater.

Photo 2:  LOUIS VUITTON MEN’S suit, SAINT LAURENT BY ANTHONY VACCARELLO shirt, SALVATOREFERRAGAMO boots.

Photo 3:  DUNHILL suit and FENDI sweater.

Photo 4:  DUNHILL suit, FENDI sweater, LOUIS VUITTON MEN’S shoes, and FALKE socks.

Photo 5:  LOUIS VUITTON MEN’S suit and SAINT LAURENT BY ANTHONY VACCARELLO shirt.

[mypearchive]

Philip Ettinger’s role on ‘I Know This Much Is True’ hits close to home

By Michael Starr / NY Post

June 10, 2020 | 6:32pm

Philip Ettinger’s dual role in “I Know This Much Is True” hit very close to home.

Ettinger, 34, plays teen/college-age identical twins Dominick and Thomas Birdsey in the acclaimed HBO drama starring Mark Ruffalo (as the older brothers).

As the series progresses, Thomas’ paranoid schizophrenia manifests itself when the brothers get to college; Dominick, who fiercely loves and protects his brother, can only look on helplessly.

“My brother, who’s 13 years older than me, started to get symptoms [of schizophrenia] when he was in his early 20s and I was around 9,” says Ettinger, who grew up in nearby Fair Lawn, NJ. “The age gap what it was between us, I didn’t understand what was happening.

“He’s doing great now and he’s been watching [the series] and it’s really moving him,” he says. “My own dad, who’s not the most outwardly emotional person, has called me after every episode and he’s really emotional. He repressed a lot of his own feelings and related to Dominick’s frustration and anger toward Thomas.

“Yes, Dominick can act like an a–hole at times, but he’s trying to cope with the skills and tools he has,” he says. “He’s got so much weight on his shoulders — and I’m happy we didn’t sugarcoat that.”

Ettinger (“One Dollar,” “The Evening Hour”) says his personal history was his motivating factor in auditioning for the roles.

“It wasn’t to score a job with cool people,” he says. “I felt inspired to represent [the brothers] correctly and subtly and not do the crazy cliche thing, to find the nuance. When I got the audition, a good friend of mine, who had already auditioned for the young Dessa [Dominick’s future wife], e-mailed me and said, ‘You’re going to get the role.’ I felt that the universe was laying something out for me.” 

Ettinger shot his dual roles while Ruffalo — who filmed his part as the 40-ish Dominick first — took time off to gain weight for his portrayal of the older, heavily medicated Thomas, who’s spent two decades in Connecticut psychiatric facilities.

“I was the first one to play Thomas, so that was interesting,” Ettinger says. “Mark and I had to collaborate on that. There was a great night where we met in a diner on the Upper West Side and walked all around the city. I kind of needed to get his blessing because I had this idea of how to play Thomas and luckily there were many kindred feelings between us.

“We joined forces on that one.”

Ettinger says that filming both roles simultaneously was extremely challenging.

“We tried everything that first day,” he says. “We had a double there and recorded his voice and played it back to me and that didn’t work. I played Dominick first, to try to get the skeleton of the scene — I would do scenes that made me a little frustrated, angry and repressed — and then I would release that filter [for Thomas]. We ended up improvising a lot.”

Ettinger says the scene that really helped him “get” the brothers’ emotional essence is when Thomas asks Dominick what it’s like to sleep with a woman.

“I got so emotional playing Thomas in that scene, where Dominick is telling him what sex is like and Thomas knows he’ll never experience anything like that,” he says.  “That happened in the moment and it wasn’t planned. Luckily they caught it on camera.”

And, Ettinger says, he’s been hearing from people all around the world since the series premiered.

“The response of people who’ve dealt with these issues of survival and are struggling to keep their heads above water has been so special,” he says. “I didn’t know if people would tune out because it’s too much to handle, but they’re relating to it and connecting through the pain and emotion.

“It’s cool to see.”

[mypearchive]

PHILIP ETTINGER
                                                                                     in HBO Series I Know This Much Is True


PHOTOGRAPHY Mark Squires FASHION EDITOR Deborah Ferguson 
Interview by Sydney Nash


Philip Ettinger is an American actor, whose credits include starring alongside Ethan Hawke and Amanda Seyfried in “First Reformed” and “The Evening Hour,” which debuted at this year’s Sundance Film Festival. Ettinger’s most recent project is HBO’s “I Know This Much is True,” helmed by director Derek Cianfrance and starring Mark Ruffalo. Based on Wally Lamb’s acclaimed novel by the same name, it tells the story of the complicated relationship of two brothers (twins), one of which lives with paranoid schizophrenia. Ruffalo stars as the older iteration of the twins, while Ettinger inhabits the two characters in their youth. ContentMode spoke to the actor about the limited series and arguably, his best performance yet. 


Q: Before we dive into questions about I Know This Much Is True, I must first say, bravo. This show is visceral, heart-wrenching, and achingly beautiful. It was a very emotional experience watching, I must say. I’m curious as to the type of feedback you’ve been hearing from viewers and the people around you about the show. 


A: Thanks for saying that. This project is so close to my heart. It felt super emotional shooting it… it’s been really special. You know we’re going through such a fucking crazy time right now. You make a thing and have that whole experience of shooting it, and then you never really know how it might connect in the time of when it’s finally released. When I’m working on something, I’m so much in the state of not even thinking of it as being a product. Then, when it’s time for it to come out, it’s a bit of a mind fuck and scary.  And this in particular was such a vulnerable experience. Everyone gave so much of their heart to it. It’s being released in a really crazy and heavy time, and the show deals with a lot of real and heavy things. But what’s been amazing is the people who have reached out to me to tell me how important it’s been to them. And how much of an emotional balm it’s been. People have vulnerably shared with me how this show has made them feel less alone in their own unique situations and emotions. Honestly, it’s been fucking beautiful to see how much we all can relate and share in the really difficult work of being a human being.


We’re all connected. It’s been a nice reminder for me personally in this isolating time of quarantine.


Q: Tell me about how this role came about. I know you’ve been a long admirer of Mark Ruffalo’s work, so this must have been a dream project.


A: The whole thing just feels kind of kismet. One day, I get a random email from a friend of mine who was going in to audition for young Dessa (younger Kathryn Hahn). This was before I really knew anything about it. She forwarded me her appointment with the script and said, “You should be young Dominick/Thomas.” All of young Dessa’s scenes were with young Dominick/Thomas, so I was able to see what it was like.


I’ve always looked up to Mark and have been compared to him in the past. I even wrote him a letter when I was in acting school and doing This Is Our Youth, which was the play he did in New York, and I expressed to him how much I connect to his work. He was doing Awake and Sing! on Broadway at the time and I went to see the play and gave him the letter. On top of that, I grew up with a brother who dealt with schizophrenic symptoms. I felt a really strong purpose to tell this story as real and accurately as possible. It’s rare when it happens, but sometimes things come along where it’s much deeper than it just being a job. The purpose for doing it is so strong and instinctual that I’m able to move through any fears or insecurities to do it. I went into this audition with a really strong sense that I was the person who was meant to help tell this story.


Q: Did you and Mark ever prep for the role together? I’ve read that you and him took a long walk around the Upper West Side before shooting started.


A: Yeah we did. The way it worked was Mark shot all of Dominick first and then took a month and a half off to gain about 50 pounds in order to play Thomas. During that time off is when I shot most of my stuff. We would text back and forth with ideas and before shooting began we hung out and read each other’s scenes together. Then Mark went off to shoot his Dominick side. Derek Cianfrance our director showed me a bunch of Mark’s dailies for me to kind of get a sense of what Mark was doing with Dominick, but when it came to Thomas, I was the first one to introduce what he’d be like. It was fucking scary because I wanted to be as instinctual as possible and to make my own unique choices. At the same time, I didn’t want to paint Mark into a corner because he’d have to evolve whatever I was doing into older Thomas.

About a week before I went to shoot, I met Mark on the Upper West Side at a diner. We talked for hours. I had been waiting in the wings for months, getting ready to take over when he took his break. I can be a pretty obsessive thinker, so at that point, I was pretty much bursting holding these two distinctly different characters inside of me, ready to express myself and let my Dominick and Thomas out. At the same time, I was absolutely terrified because the thing I’d been obsessing about and literally having intense symbolic dreams about was finally going to happen. Mark encouraged me to make it my own, and on the way out of the diner, I started to tell him about these crazy and intense dreams I was having that were kind of informing me who these guys were. He said, “I’ve been having dreams too. Let’s take a walk,” and then we just walked like 50 city blocks. We were just meshing our energies, ideas and physicalities, as well as sharing stories and quickly connecting on a really vulnerable level to each other. We were having very similar dreams. It was crazy and beautiful and a night I’ll always remember. Talking about it now makes me yearn to get back into more collaborative experiences again.


Q: If you don’t mind me asking, how emotionally intense was performing the roles of both Dominick and Thomas? Did you find one character more challenging than the other and were you able to separate the two performances, or were they always informing the other?

A: It’s hard to really describe it using words. The whole thing was one big instinctual and emotional experiment. It was kind of impossible to anticipate the best way to make it all work.

First day was completely trial and error. Mark shot each character separately with a lot of time apart, but I was having to do every scene going back and forth. The whole thing was very out of body and cathartic. Or more like in my body and out of my head.


It’s interesting, I’ve been doing therapy in quarantine and have worked a bit with childhood regression exercises and going back to a time when I was four or five. I’ll go back on impulse and really connect to the feelings I was feeling without too much awareness of social rules and insecurities and ideas of how I needed to be and act. Then, doing the same thing, but going back to the thirteen year old version of me, who at that point had been knocked around a bit and was very insecure and shut down and scared and had less trust and freedom of emotion. Both of them are very alive inside of me. Shooting every scene, I’d be Dominick and feel really repressed and kind of locked up and angry and insecure in my feelings. Then when I’d switch over to Thomas, I got to rip off the shield and filter that I’ve created to personally protect myself in my life and just feel my feelings and pain and fear and anger and fully be on my impulse in a safe environment. It was freeing and painful and blissful, and all of the feelings. I gave myself permission not to judge myself. Then, I’d go back into Dominick and the shield went back up. It was a lot of back and forth of that.


Honestly, it’s impossible to really explain it in retrospect. It was like one giant therapeutic experiment. It definitely changed me and gave me some different perspectives.


Q: Did you ever feel like your acting influenced Mark’s performance or vice versa?


A: It felt like one ongoing collaboration. We were taking from each other from the preparation through the shooting. But there was an ease to it all, which just shows how generous Mark is as a human being and artist. He didn’t have to invite me in the way he did. I’m very grateful for that.


Q: What was it like working with director Derek Cianfrance? Did Derek allow you to bring your own experiences and POV to your characters?


A: Derek is my emotional soul brother. The guy has so much fucking heart and just sets up an atmosphere of trust and love and challenges you to go deeper than any ideas you may have and to find the truth of every moment. He wants you to bring all of your heart and soul to the part. He’s done so much work and has thought so deeply about the characters and the scenes, but then challenges and almost expects you to surprise him. It’s all about, as he says, ‘trying to capture Halley’s Comet in every scene.’ Something that’s straight from impulse and truth and surprising and spontaneous and can never be exactly recreated. It’s all a big experiment and diving into the truth of every dynamic and relationship.

That’s exactly the way I love to work, so it was just a fucking dream to play like that.


But in order to work at that level, you need to have such trust in the leader and it needs to be such a safe environment. With Derek, I just felt so safe.


Q: Tell me a little bit about how filming two characters on-screen at the same time worked. How much of what the audience sees when Dominick and Thomas are together is CGI?


A: It’s crazy. The editing is incredible. Other than a few connecting shots, many of the scenes the two brothers are never in the same shot together. I think Derek wanted to make it feel as natural and un-CGI as possible, so he relied on the performances to connect the dots. The response has been that it feels pretty seamless and not a distraction, which is great to hear. We all definitely tried to avoid the trick of it all and really cared about making each brother his own three dimensional being.


Q: The show was shot on film as compared to digitally. What’s the difference that shooting on film makes to the final product and the audience experience?


A: It’s awesome. It was my first time shooting on film. There’s a heightened intensity to it all, because there’s a limited amount of time before the film rolls out. It’s exciting. I tend to work best and am able to commit more when adrenaline is a little higher and there’s a little more pressure. There’s also something more tactile about it all. It feels more activated and felt like we were shooting a movie instead of a TV show.


Q: I’ve read in other interviews where you’ve spoken about how your relationship with your own brother (who has a history with schizophrenic symptoms) influenced your performance. Can you tell me a little bit about this (if you don’t mind sharing)? How important was authenticity to you?


A: My brother is doing great now. It’s amazing. But there was a long time when I was growing up where he was suffering. I watched him struggle through a lot of thoughts and emotions inside of his head. On the flip side, he was probably the most honest, empathetic and connected-to-the-energy-around-him person that I knew. And has deeply affected how I see things in a really special way. I also watched my parents try and understand and protect and deal with it and help. And do the best that they possibly could under the circumstances. They were amazing. But I also watched them struggle and make questionable decisions in order to help in the only ways they knew how. I was also having my own experience.


What was so important to me about this show was to be able to express all sides of the situation and the nuance to it all. Often, when there’s mental illness in a family, everyone is doing the best that they can with the tools that they have. Sometimes the “crazy” one is the most tapped in and actually present and intuitive and available. Sometimes the ones, who on the surface have their shit together, have no idea what they are doing.


I think this was a way for me to express myself and better understand what repressed feelings I had having a brother with mental illness. One thing’s for certain: I don’t think anyone involved was interested in anything but navigating the truths and realities of these situations.


Q: Based on your own experiences with your brother, the director Derek added in a scene to one of the episodes. Can you elaborate on what this scene was?


A: Yeah, I told Derek a bunch of stories about me and my brother. There was a period of time when he was around 22 and in the midst of a mental break. I was around 9, and we shared a room. Some of the stories were scary, but a lot of them were really funny and beautiful. I observed my brother be so present and tapped in to the energy and people around him. Sometimes his thoughts would get away from him, but almost always, the impulse of the thought and the intuition he would have was so on point. It made me feel like he was often more present and truthful and sane than so many other people around me who seemed to be repressing, overlooking and complying to the rules of society and the pressures of fitting in and saying and doing the right and popular thing. I felt like he really took me in and saw me better than anyone else.


I told Derek about how often my brother’s energy felt so expansive and truthful to his feelings that it would be infectious to the people around him and magical to me. And then Derek added a scene in episode 4 where Thomas is feeling a lot of emotions and the best way he’s able to express himself is through unadulterated dance. It’s a moment that Dominick watches on and knows he’d never be able to be so free in his emotions to express himself like that. [Derek] told me he added that scene inspired by the stories I told him about my brother.


Q: At its core, the show is about the relationship between two brothers, but the show touches on so many different enduring themes. What about the story speaks most strongly to you?


A: We’re all trying to get through life in the best ways that we know how. We all have unique family situations, life expectations, and struggles and pains on different levels. The show and Wally Lamb’s novel just touches on what it’s like to be human and the possibility for growth and change when it may feel like it’s impossible. As he says, “But what are our stories if not the mirrors we hold up to our fears.” And another quote that seems to resonate more than ever: “With destructions comes renovations.”


Q: You must be very proud of this show and the reception it’s receiving. How did you feel seeing the finished product?


A: It feels a little surreal to watch. It’s hard for me to fully take in my own stuff or to judge it good and bad, but what I will say is that there’s so much heart in the show and I’m forever proud and grateful to be a part of it. And to watch Mark and Rosie and Kathryn and John and Melissa and Archie and everyone else and feel so connected to them. And to have my family watch it and have it inspire new conversations between us. It feels very healing in a lot of ways. 


Q: Moving forward, what types of roles are you hoping to pursue? What’s the most important aspect of a project to you?


A: I don’t really know. I want to continue to work with people who inspire me and to feel a purpose with what I’m doing beyond ego and expectation. And to keep doing stuff that really scares me and to ultimately just find things that will help me evolve and gain some different perspectives. To continue to do things that make me feel connected and out of my own head.

I’ve been lucky to be a part of a few things where everyone involved is connected and on the same page and doing it for the right reasons, and the material is strong and every once in a while, when all those stars are aligned you can have moments of transcendence absent of ego and fear and judgement and you’re just riding on your impulse and intuition and heart. I want to keep chasing that.


Q: With the world in the midst of a pandemic and social unrest, what are you most hopeful for?


A: How connected we all really are even though the world feels divided right now. There’s so much pain and fear and anger right now, but there’s also a lot of change happening. And beauty. If there’s any silver lining to all of this loss, pain and suffering, I think it’s that it’s forced us to be more present with our families and loved ones. And maybe break some habits that we’d never be able to break on our own. And slowed things down a bit. And forced us all to look inward and to take a pause from all the fast and constant external validation so many of us think we want or need. I’ve witnessed thousands of people coming together to support each other and to stand up to injustice. This time has been traumatic on many levels for everyone, and I’m sure there will be long term effects of that, but also I’m excited to see the positive effects and positive changes this time may cause. In a way, it felt like we needed a bit of a reset and recalibration to really make some changes.

Quick Qs


Q: If you weren’t an actor, what would you be?

A: Maybe a therapist? I’m endlessly fascinated in why people do what they do and how they do it. And don’t do things. And why. And the relationship between our conscious and unconscious bodies and minds. And the potential of evolving our thought patterns past or through our blocks and pain and traumas. I’ve also spent a lot of time working one-on-one with autistic kids and adults, so maybe that. Something to do with human behavior and connection and growth and expression. Or if I was taller and more athletically gifted, it would be pretty damn cool to be an NBA basketball player.


Q: Role model?


A: Literally anyone who’s able to get through life with continued kindness, open-heartedness, positivity and evolution.

Q: Pet peeve?

A: People giving advice to other people based on what they would want or how they would act or react, instead of taking in the other person’s perspective.

Q: Most slept-on movie?


A: This is not particularly slept on, but this conversation and question is making me think of The Devil and Daniel Johnston. 


Q: The last thing you binged?


A: I’m a novice TV watcher. This past year and during quarantine is the first time I’ve really caught up on shows. Recently I’ve gone through Mad Men, The Affair – Maura Tierney’s so good in that. I just watched Normal People. I thought Paul Mescal was such a subtle and good actor in that. Oh, and In Treatment. I love In Treatment. I just heard that they may be bringing it back, which is exciting to hear. The nuances of two people in a room talking for a long time really does it for me.


Q: Dream role?


A: Hamlet? Even though that scares the shit out of me and seems to be a cliche’d answer for an actor my age.

Q: What’s the best advice you’ve ever received?


A: To try easier. It’s not necessarily the amount of time spent working, but more the quality and headspace of that time. 
Also, to stop trying to control the outcome of what and how I think I want something to go. Because guaranteed it won’t go exactly as planned and trying to force what I think is the best thing is quantifying and limiting the possibilities of what it could be. 
And something that I saved that Mark actually said to me:
  Hang tough, stay real, make your shots count when you get them and no matter what, keep moving. Just keep moving.


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For remaining photographs from the Content Mode article, scroll down to the next post. 


(I am archiving this entire article here, because I have no idea whether or not the Content Mode site will continue to host the Ettinger interview in the future, as more is published there in time. No copyright infringement is intended.)