nordickies

[nordickies]

Haha, sweblr find your gay Sweden history post

Terrifying

[nordickies]

I've been seeing so many nordic language comparing videos so I want to know what is your favorite nordic accent? 🤔

If you mean accents when speaking English, I'd say Icelandic. I like the harsh consonants, yet it sounds airy. The rest of the Nordic accents just sound silly imo

[nordickies]

Have you ever thought about ancient personifications? Like who the parents of the Nordics would be? I always thought that the Scandinavian trio would share an ancestor and Finland would share a common ancestor with Estonia and Hungary. What are your thoughts though? :)

I’ve been thinking about it! I just haven’t come to a satisfying conclusion yet.

First of all, I’m personally not into the idea of personifications being biologically related, since that tends to make their lineages incredibly complicated very fast. I also have a lot of questions about how they’re even “born” in the first place—so that whole theory is still very much in development, lol.

I’ve been wondering whether there could have been multiple personifications before the current Scandinavian ones, rather than a single "Scandinavia" as many people headcanon. For example, could there have been Danes and Jutes before Denmark? Götaland, Svealand, and Gotland before Sweden? I'm not fully committed to the idea, but it has crossed my mind. I just can’t picture the current Scandinavian personifications being older than their established kingdoms, so I guess they were “born” sometime between the 9th and 12th centuries. If that’s the case, then there were probably a lot of "ancients", maybe even multiple generations, that the current personifications never met.

The idea of Finland, Estonia, and Hungary sharing some kind of lineage is cute, but it wouldn’t be anything recent. Linguistically, Hungarian split from the Finnic languages around 5,000 years ago. For comparison, French and Portuguese became separate languages about 1,200 years ago, and Proto-Germanic was still spoken roughly 2,500 years ago. Finnish and Estonian diverged into seperate languages sometime in the first millennium AD. Meanwhile, the East Scandinavian languages, Old Swedish and Old Danish, became distinguishable by the 13th century, though dialects and borders were pretty undefined before the creation of standard languages. The Western Scandinavian languages, Norwegian and Icelandic, split around the same time. So from a linguistic viewpoint, it makes more sense for the Scandinavians to be more closely "related" to one another.

That said, building national family trees based solely on language is really murky, as language is not ethnicity. I'm just referencing them to give a sense of timeline for the historical context here

It’s all pretty complicated! I’m still pondering it, so I’d love to hear everyone else’s thoughts on the matter!

[nordickies]

Where do you think Timo lives? And what dialect does he speak?

-Finnish follower here

Moi! I think there's really no other option except for him to live in Helsinki. Tragically, everything from politics, transportation, business, to entertainment is concentrated in the capital, and one-fifth of the entire population lives in the capital region.

But Helsinki is a very young capital by European standards, becoming the capital of Finland in 1812. Before that, it was a small farming village, founded in 1550 to compete with the trading power on the opposite side of the gulf—Tallinn. But those plans ultimately failed since the Duchy of Estonia became part of the Swedish realm in 1561, and competition wasn't necessary anymore. But due to its young age, most of the architecture in Helsinki is from the 1800s or the early 20th century (besides the construction of Suomenlinna in the 1740s). And a lot of rebuilding took place after the airstrikes of WW2 (and a lot of architecture was unfortunately modernized).

This little history lesson is to say that Fin hasn't lived in Helsinki for the majority of his life. My take is that before the 19th century, he would have lived in Turku, which was the cultural and administrative center of Finland (but officially a capital only for the years 1809-1812 before the Great Fire). Turku was founded in the 1200s, and it's the oldest official town in Finland. Anything prior to that is kinda impossible to say because that's as far as Finland's recorded history goes. But if you want some variety, Fin may have lived in Tampere. It became the center of the Finnish industrial revolution in the 19th century, and it has some significant WW1 era history. Old trading towns like Porvoo and Rauma (doesn't that get named dropped in his character song or something) are also plausible.

The dialect question is a tricky one. Of course, based on this residency history, he'd naturally get exposed to Southwestern dialects. But I don't know if I have it in me to make him speak in Turku, or even worse, Rauma dialect (they're very distinct and thus mocked). Or due to his current living history, he could speak Slangi, which can be comical in its own way.

But most importantly, if he's the representative of all of Finland, he would need to communicate in standard Finnish (yleiskieli), and maybe he opts to do that to not favor one area over the other. And you could consider that in the past decades, dialects were seen as trashy, and scholarly circles would downright demand people to speak the standard language, so it's not hard to imagine Fin forcing himself to speak that way. Or alternatively, since people move around a lot more frequently nowadays, which results in Finnish dialects getting mixed, maybe he speaks with some random, even unexpected, dialect words pushing through here and there.

The language question is a complicated one because his peers won't understand him, regardless. He just speaks in his own way, both domestically and abroad, I suppose!

[nordickies]

What's the story or reason behind "Sweden is gay" jokes?

I could just say “it’s a comedy trope” and leave it at that—but the truth is, the topic is much more nuanced and, in my opinion, genuinely fascinating. The perception of Swedish men as “gay” in Finland isn’t some modern invention; it’s generational. The trope has been around so long that most people have no idea where it actually came from. So let me give you a proper, researched answer!

For most of history, same-sex relationships weren’t explicitly named in Sweden's (and by extension Finland's) criminal law. Instead, sexual crimes were defined through Biblical principles, such as the sins of Sodom, and punishments were meted out inconsistently. In the late 19th century, however, the criminalization of homosexuality became a public issue, driven by contemporary medical debates that aimed to purge society of its supposed moral decay in the name of racial hygiene. Homosexuality was medicalized, and it began to be classified as a psychiatric illness—an abnormal deviation from “biologically normal heterosexuality.” At the same time, psychoanalysts were also looking for ways to "cure" this deviance.

Contradictorily, homosexuality was seen both as an innate trait of certain “lower-class” people and as a contagious epidemic that could "infect" anyone who wasn't careful. Sexuality, now central to modernity, became heavily regulated by social norms. In Sweden, the government appointed numerous commissions focused on sexuality, primarily concerning sexual hygiene and procreation, essentially regulating who was allowed, or deemed desirable, to reproduce.

World War II brought the topic of homosexuality further into public discourse. Beyond the documentation of violent Nazi persecution of homosexuals, Finland began to confront same-sex relationships that emerged on the front lines and in blacked-out Helsinki during the war. War placed people into heavily gendered environments, where same-sex intimacy could form more easily. At the same time, Sweden decriminalized homosexuality in 1944, which brought the topic into Finnish media. Finnish tabloids wrote extensively about Swedish homosexuals and the spread of the so-called “Swedish disease.” Scandals in neighboring countries—like the 1955 Prostitution Network case in Copenhagen and Sweden’s Haijby and Kejne cases—distorted the topic, connecting homosexuality and pedophilia in the Finnish debate.

Stockholms Tidningen 22/1950 - "Homosexuals are a serious problem in Stockholm – rural youth are the victims"

The homosexual, as the "other" and the opposite of the heterosexual, was depicted as a moral threat to society in the 1950s. During the anxiety of the Cold War, the “other” became a public enemy and a danger to national security.

After the war, the national rebuilding project included a focus on moral reconstruction. Attitudes toward sexuality became increasingly conservative. The fear and panic around homosexuality led Finnish authorities to monitor, e.g., parks and public bathrooms, where gay men were believed to meet each other. The 1950s saw the highest number of convictions for homosexuality in Finnish history, with over 1,000 men prosecuted. Public discourse and reporting on homosexuality led to the police becoming more active to prevent a moral panic, which in turn led to new convictions, which were reported in the tabloid magazines—starting a self-feeding cycle. Sensational headlines framed victims of sexual assault as complicit, citing “loose morals,” drunkenness, or a tendency toward debauchery, the victim-blaming adding shame to an already stigmatized homosexuality. There was also the threat of blackmail, real or fabricated, that could ruin people’s personal relationships, careers, and public image.

Viikon Totuus 11/1959 - "Male homosexuals in the limelight: Is the 'Swedish disease' spreading in Finland?

Whereas homosexuality was associated with communism in the United States and the United Kingdom, in Sweden, homosexuality was seen as a problem within the right-wing and upper classes of society, with young and impoverished working-class men being the victims. In Finland, similar ideas arose, as homosexuality was primarily considered an urban problem. Until the 1950s, Finland was a largely agrarian society where people, regardless of gender, were expected to contribute to agricultural labor. Oftentimes, it was the women who had to do labor-intensive work while the men were drafted as soldiers. This fostered a less rigid gender hierarchy, to a point it's argued that rural life didn’t necessarily stigmatize the "feminized" man in a same-sex relationship. Same-sex relationships were seen as less problematic than extramarital relationships between women and men, which could result in illegitimate children. As long as everyone contributed to the community, same-sex couples could often go unbothered. However, this concealable nature of same-sex relationships meant that rural communities weren’t exposed to homosexuality as a concept until the media framed it as a threat. What had once gone unnamed became a symbol of urban moral decay and a danger to national purity.

Viikon Totuus 1/1963 - "Homophiles chase boys and men in central Helsinki"

In Western patriarchal societies, homosexuality is “othered” because it challenges hegemonic masculinity, which relies on the expectation of unequal heterosexual relationships. Male bonds are expected to remain non-sexual to uphold the social hierarchy. Men who deviate or fight against these norms are seen as weak, effeminate, and thus lacking masculinity. This dynamic fosters homophobia, misogyny, and heterosexism, keeping heterosexual men united in opposition to anything deemed feminine or non-conforming. By associating homosexuality with something “other” in the new wave of moralism in the 20th century, it was possible to create an image that Finnish masculinity and homosexuality are not compatible. Homosexuality becomes the “other” to the Finnish man’s identity—something that cannot co-exist within him. Swedish men who are “feminine and interested in men” create a contrast to the “strong heterosexual Finnish man”. The othering of the Swedish man was easy because Finnish national identity was, from the start, shaped in opposition to Swedishness. By excluding homosexuality from the cultural narrative, society reasserts its ideals of masculinity, moral integrity, and national cohesion. The othering of the Swedish man gives a satisfying itch to the inferior complex and validates the national identity.

I personally think it's worth noting the upper class of Finnish society being traditionally Swedish speaking (and gayness seen as a vice of the rich), alongside the rural flight which lead to over 400,000 Finns moving to Sweden between 1950s-1970s and thus exposing Finns to more liberated sexual environment, have in my opinion certainly also contributed to the pre-existing conception of Swedishness as inherently homosexual compared to that of Finnishness.

Norwegian petition in Dagbladet magazine, 28.6.1979. "We demand that the competent authorities in Finland immediately repeal the anti-gay law to bring Finland into line with other Nordic countries."

Timeline of the development of same-sex rights in both countries:

Homosexuality criminalized: 🇸🇪 1864 / 🇫🇮 1894

Homosexuality decriminalized: 🇸🇪 1944 / 🇫🇮 1971

No longer classified as illness: 🇸🇪 1979 / 🇫🇮 1981

Anti-discrimination laws: 🇸🇪 1987 / 🇫🇮 2000

Registered partnership: 🇸🇪 1995 / 🇫🇮 2002

Adoption rights: 🇸🇪 2003 / 🇫🇮 2009

Marriage equality: 🇸🇪 2009 / 🇫🇮 2017

During the HIV crisis in 1987, Sweden passed a law banning gay saunas and prostitution (repealed in 2004). In Finland, although gay sex was decriminalized in 1971, it was replaced with a “Promotion Ban,” which made "promoting" or discussing homosexuality effectively illegal until 1999. This vague law created a culture of censorship and fear, discouraging media from covering LGBTQ topics positively—or at all. As a result, many queer Finns sought refuge in more progressive countries like Sweden and Denmark, forming small diaspora communities. It's worth noting that Sweden and Denmark also liberalized porn in the late 1960s, while Finland had strict regulation regarding "promiscuous publications" until the 1990s. Swedish and Danish magazines and films were imported both by private consumers and smuggled by sex shops, reinforcing the association with sexuality, and especially sexual deviancy, with the Western neighbours.

Attitudes towards homosexuality in Finland started to change slowly after the decriminalization. However, the repeated generational perceptions of "effeminate" Swedish men compared to heteromasculine Finnish men continued to shape the perceptions of homosexuality in, e.g., comedy tropes. Additionally, the perception of homosexuality as a sensitive issue that wasn’t being talked about during the Promotion Ban left a mark. Belonging to a sexual minority was seen as a private matter that should not have any weight in public debate, which left especially politicians hesitant to bring up LGBTQ issues forward, and thus, LGBTQ legislation in Finland moved forward painfully slowly.

Homosexuality, since its appearance in wide public discourse in Finland, was associated with Swedishness from day one, being framed as an urban disease, sensationalized through scandals and pseudo-science, sparking moral panic. The issue cut deep into medical, social, and cultural anxiety. The othering made it easier for Finnish society to distance itself from homosexuality by projecting it onto a "familiar" outsider, the Swede, who was easy to make fun of.

Recommendations for further reading:

Juvonen, T., Vastapaino. 2021. Varjoelämää ja julkisia salaisuuksia — Homoseksuaalisuuden rakentuminen sotien jälkeisessä Suomessa. https://www.finna.fi/Record/fikka.5795725?lng=en-gb 

Kettunen, S. 2022. Martti rakkaani: Hiljaisuus ja vaikeneminen seksuaalisuuden kokemuksessa miesparin kirjeenvaihdossa 1956–1961. https://urn.fi/URN:NBN:fi:tuni-202210267896 

Hagman, S. 2014. Seven queer brothers: narratives of forbidden male same-sex desires from modernizing Finland 1894-1971. https://hdl.handle.net/1814/32118 

Põldsam, R., Taavetti, R. 2024. Sisters Across the Gulf: Transnational Connections and Frictions in Estonian–Finnish Lesbian Networks of the early 1990s. https://doi.org/10.34041/ln.v29.933 

Rydström, J., Mustola, K. 2007. Criminally Queer: Homosexuality and Criminal Law in Scandinavia 1842-1999. https://library.oapen.org/viewer/web/viewer.html?file=/bitstream/handle/20.500.12657/34830/353810.pdf. 

Sundén, J., Paasonen, S., & Tiidenberg, K. 2024. Sex at the Borders: A Special Issue Introduction. https://doi.org/10.34041/ln.v29.928 

Söderström, G. 1999. Sympatiens hemlighetsfulla makt. Stockholms homosexuella 1860-1960.

Nyegaard, N., Heede, D. & Rydström, J. 2022. Special Issue Editorial: Nordic LGBTQ Histories. https://doi.org/10.1080/08038740.2022.2104022

Suomi on Queer. 2023. Yle. https://areena.yle.fi/1-66734852 

[nordickies]

Since Easter is soon, Swe and Fin dressing the kids as little Easter witches?

YESS! Sorry, I don't have my drawing equipment with me, but this should absolutely happen. You just unlocked a childhood memory of going door to door with a coffee pot and wearing grandma clothes...

[nordickies]

Do you have any ideas about what happened to sigurd and alasdair's old letters? Did anyone ever find out about them, have they successfully been kept secretive and private, or have they been destroyed as time went on? 👀

I like the idea of some of them surviving to the modern day! I feel like Sigurd would be very protective of these letters, a well-kept secret, thus maybe they survived stored in his attic or cabin. But I don't think he'd let people see them, they're that personal.

But imagine, in a tragic twist, Alasdair has lost his half of the letters. Fire, relocating over the years, something like that. And since I think Nations' memories can be rather fragile, he has slowly forgotten some of these earlier moments with Sigurd, without the physical evidence helping him to remember.

The tragic thing is that Sigurd still remembers; he has those letters to read through. If they both had forgotten, it wouldn't really matter. But now Sigurd will be left with his memories all alone, remembering a version of Alasdair that is not really there anymore. It has bittersweet potential.

[nordickies]

On the topic of Nordics with instruments. Very random, but Iceland can play Langspil (traditional Icelandic instrument) and Denmark can play harmonika and the kazoo

Okay, I love the idea of Iceland being that guy who plays some very specific instrument which the majority of people have never heard of. And which has only very specific usage/audience. That suits him.

But idk do Den's instrument requires that much skill... Denmark knows how to run his mouth, is that an instrument?

[nordickies]

I’ve been thinking about where to properly share all of my artwork, especially the pieces from my old blog and those that don’t quite fit here anymore. As much as I enjoy using Tumblr, it’s not the most practical platform for showcasing art. Over time, the blog fills up with text posts and replies, making it tricky to find specific drawings or view the gallery as a whole

So, I’ve decided to launch a Ko-Fi page!

Donations are completely optional. My entire gallery (400+ pieces) is publicly available for everyone to browse and enjoy!! If you want to trip down memory lane or just see the horrors where I came from with my art, it's now possible <3

[nordickies]

I think Sweden should be able to play the accordion (dragspel/trekkspill), as a treat. No one can convince me that man can't belt out our good ol' dancing songs.

True, it's a good party when there is an accordion involved. Okay, yeah, I can accept that

[nordickies]

When it comes to musicality I think Norway and Sweden are as follows:

Sweden: Absolutely tone deaf and can’t play any instrument. Yet when drunk will absolutely belt out an ABBA song.

Norway: The most musically talented of the Nordics. Plays piano and violin and is just as gifted as Austria. Loves playing Norwegian folk violin music and pieces pieces by Edvard Grieg.

As for the other nordics I’m not sure. As a violinist I absolutely adore Jean Sibelius’ violin concerto and think Finland would as well. Denmark and Iceland are a total mystery. What do you think?

I agree, 100%

I think Finland appreciates good music but isn't particularly musical himself. He has some random instrument that's just collecting dust in his house, maybe a guitar or drums. I don't see Denmark or Iceland as being that musically talented either. Though maybe Norway has tried to teach the basics of the violin/fiddle to Iceland, but he just doesn't have the patience to get better (he's so hotheaded)

[nordickies]

Is there a way to ask for Denmark and Nyo Norway 👉👈

I'm torn on the Nyo versions because it'd be nice to have them exist in the same universe as the regular counterparts, perhaps personifying a different area of the country. But I can't be bothered to add more muses to this blog, so I just ignore them. Sometimes I like to genderbent characters because having more than a handful of fem characters would be nice in general (I'm still clinging onto female Ireland, Philippines, and Portugal)

Anyway, it’d be fun if every now and then, immortals ran into people who looked eerily like themselves or like someone they had known in the past... doppelgangers...

[nordickies]

What's your opinion on Romania/Bulgaria/Norway?

I like it! In any shape or form, friends or lovers, I think it's fun

[nordickies]

do you think there is a genre of "found footage" in hetaverse of people wearing go-pros or hidden camera to catch norway on tape

LOL, okay, there must be public photos of Norway out there. He just coldly turns down selfies or something, he doesn't want to be bothered

[nordickies]

@hetagrammy Cackling at this

I am always right about all my takes on this blog, actually

[nordickies]

I am always right about all my takes on this blog, actually

[nordickies]

Leeeaaaannnnns into your askbox. I would love to ask for lietpru, and if you have any takes on them. Thank you for being a bright spot on this site.

You? Asking for LietPru?? Seriously, thank you for sticking around and supporting the blog (even though there's a shortage of Lithuania and Prussia here). I have no idea what you’re getting out of it, but I appreciate it all the same!! I’ve got to admit that your writing has genuinely sparked my interest in these two. Consider me successfully converted..

Anyway, read Call to Alms <3