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[oli-feli]

Stephen’s video…

…is devastating but it also weirdly gave me hope. He told them after S6 that he wanted to leave after S7, when his contract was up. They convinced him to stay for 10 more eps.

Knowing this for sure honestly makes the flash forwards far more palettable because it means that every episode of S7 was written with the end in mind.

I am sure that Oliver will sacrifice himself in the crossover…but I also think that with 1-2 episodes remaining (the crossover has historically been ep 8 or 9), that the final episode(s) will either:

1) reveal that he is actually alive 20 years in the future (maybe a full episode flash-forward epilogue) OR

2) the flash forwards are the future tied to the current present, but the events of Crisis (multiple earths’s merging) leads to a newer, happier future- maybe Oliver intends to die to save humanity but doesn’t (think Harry Potter) and goes on to live a happy life.

Honestly, the fact that they’ve been plotting/writing torward the end all along this season makes me feel a lot better about the way it will go out. Its the pendulum swing- the future looks bleak as hell now but we’ve got about 18 eps to course correct.

Still…Stephen’s almost-tears during that whole video…😢 I’m gonna miss OTA.

[oli-feli]

I think my favourite thing about the flashbacks (other than knowing some of my faves survived and other than Actual Next Gen) is how I can so clearly see the relation between Team Arrow’s kids to their parents.

William was inspired by Felicity and chose to follow her path, professionally (despite all the emotional baggage). Like Oliver he loves openly, selflessly, wholeheartedly, and there’s no going back for him once he think’s you’re family. He will do ANYTHING for the people he loves no matter how much outside his comfort zone.

Mia, like Felicity, has issues with her parents and the way she was brought up. But like Felicity wouldn’t trade Donna for the world, despite all the problems, Mia too, would do anything for her mother. Despite whatever bitterness she holds towards her Mia said it best: “my mom is the one person I care about”. Yet like Oliver, Mia has learned to guard herself and what she’s feeling. She’s learned to curb her wants and silence her dreams. Yet despite all her walls, it’s fairly obvious that she’s already bonded to her big brother and that despite their messed up past, he’s important to her and she loves him.

Zoe has most defintely inherited Rene’s temper and impatience. Yet you can also see Rene’s sense of justice, his selfless drive to help others in Zoe as well. You can definitely see Dinah’s influence on Zoe as well - not only in the way she fights. But for how she stands her ground and for what she believes in. How she speaks her mind and yet for as badass as she is, she can read a room and see when she needs to bring out her softer side. 

It’s currently more difficult with Connor since we don’t really know much about him at this point. But honestly, the fact that he’s been watching over Mia for so long now, all because his dad asked him to, speaks volumes of his character. Like John - it’s family first for him. He’s kind, and he’s honest, and he knows when to step back and walk away. You can honestly see John Diggle shine through in him.

TL;DR: I LOVE AND ADORE THE NEXT GEN KIDS AND THEY MUST BE PROTECTED AT ALL COSTS

[oli-feli]

I think this future is what happens after oliver “dies” in crisis on infinite earths which is happening fall this year and counts as “immediate future”. Which makes me believe this future timeline will be changed later when Oliver’s death will be reversed somehow. I was against the idea that it can change at first cause this is not flash or legends but i would accept if its to show how much of a difference it would make if oliver lives.

7x14 put me on edge and not in a good way. There were a lot of parallels between present day and the future, the context of which I honestly honestly do not like. 

The episode opens with Oliver trying to contact William again because he hasn’t heard from him since he left. William’s inbox is now full with voice messages from Oliver and I’d bet Felicity as well. Yet, they get no acknowledgement from Will. Not so much as a text saying “I’m ok,”. Meanwhile, in 2040, Will is under the impression that he was abandoned, that his parents forgot all about him and didn’t contact him at all but that they moved on with their lives, and the discovery of Mia has made him think that to top it all his parents simply didn’t want him.

Except that’s not what’s been happening. William wasn’t sent away, he ASKED to leave despite Felicity and Oliver not wanting to let him go. Felicity and Oliver ARE trying to contact him, they are simply being stonewalled by someone/something.  It’s this context exactly that makes me believe Rene is wrong. William is not mad. He has nothing to be mad about in this case because he got what he wanted. So him not contacting his parents is not okay at all.

Then you have the entire team INCLUDING ROY, THE ACTUAL UNCLE, not ever knowing about Mia’s existence. In fact, no one except Diggle (by proxy of Connor) seems to have known about her. Which is all sorts of ridiculous considering that even during the s6 break up the team still managed to more or less stay up to date with one another. Plus, a pregnancy is not something that can exactly be hidden after a certain point and if something caused them to lose touch so completely, then it’s about to happen in the almost IMMEDIATE future because they had no idea Felicity was pregnant to begin with. What’s more you’d think Oliver would tell HIS LITTLE SISTER he was going to have a baby.

This sort of dissonance between the present and the future makes me think that there’s something ELSE going on here, that we don’t know about yet. And while Arrow as a show generally has a shit record with their continuity, they absolutely know better than to have it on THIS scale. 

I just can’t help the feeling that someone is playing them all super hard and for the sake of how emotionally attached I am to everyone I sincerely hope I don’t have to wait till season 8 to find out what the heck happened. I have a bunch of theories at the moment as to what’s what and each one is more outlandish than the other.

[oli-feli]

Okay i love this idea so much.

The Future of the Arrow-verse

I haven’t watched any of the CW superhero shows since 6.09, when Olicity got married. In my head it was “suck it, fanboys, we won,” and I no longer had a need to see the story continue.

That being said, I know this universe and how it functions in terms of storytelling and in terms of behind-the-scenes industry matters.

Ratings don’t matter. People point to the ratings as if to say “Arrow is failing!” but that’s one thing Marc has said that’s true; ratings don’t matter, because these shows make their money in syndication.

This universe is aging, and Superhero fatigue is settling in. There will always be the core fanboy audience who watches, and in Arrow’s case, the core Olicity/OTA audience who watches, but there really isn’t any potential audience they need to grab. The only new audience I can see Batwoman garnering is the LGBTQ+ audience because she’s a queer superhero headlining the show (lest we never forget Sara Lance doesn’t exist in the comics), but the audience for all superhero shows is dwindling. Even being brand spanking new, Batwoman will never get the audience highs as early Arrow or early Flash. 

Arrow is in its seventh season. Flash is in its fifth. Supergirl and Legends are in their forth, and Black Lightning is in its second. 

I honestly don’t think there are any new audiences for superhero shows. The people who will watch a new show will be already watching.

Now, in my completely uninformed opinion, Arrow’s expiration date will be set by Stephen Amell. It will go on as long as he wants to play Oliver Queen, and both Emily and David have the option to stay on as long as they want to. The show may be focused on the core 3, but if either of them want to move on to other projects (i.e., Emily wants to do movies, David wants to direct more) they have the option of having a reduced season order, like Willa asked for or like Katie currently has. 

All this being said, I don’t think they’ll kill Oliver Queen permanently. He is the rock upon which this house is built. If they get an eighth season it will be more than the 8-9 episodes that usually run before the crossover hits. There will be episodes of Arrow after the crossover, even if season eight is its last. Killing Oliver in the crossovers and having him only appear in flashbacks during the rest of the season guarantees there will be no audience left to watch, and even the CW will know a sinking ship when they see it.

My prediction, having not actually watched an episode since 6.09 and only knowing what the franchise is doing by osmosis, I believe Oliver will sacrifice himself. He will die so Kara and Barry might live and will save the world. However, the main point of Crisis in the comics was to align the multiverse into a single universe. 

For those playing at home, you may recall the original Black Canary, Dinah Drake Lance, became the current Black Canary, Dinah Laurel Lance, but both had romances with the Green Arrow and everything was fucked. After Crisis the story was streamlined. Dinah Drake Lance was Dinah Laurel Lance’s mother. Arrow has thrown the actual history of the Black Canary in a blender so we won’t have this outcome, but my point is Crisis unifies the multiverse into a single timeline. This is where you get your multiple Flashes in line, your eleven versions of how Batman met Superman in line.

The decision to make Crisis the next crossover is a good one, because it means all the CW shows can be involved, even Black Lightning, which exists in another universe. It is going to be the ultimate DC crossover, their Infinity War. Perhaps we’ll even see John Stewart Diggle as the Green Lantern.

Oliver will sacrifice himself, but the multiverse will be streamlined and in this unified universe he’ll come back to life and finish out season 8. For me this is a good thing because it means meaty roles for Emily and Stephen in the next crossover as they say goodbye and then are reunited. Oliver’s sacrifice will mean he’s just as good a hero as Kara and Barry, and they need to respect him as such. They haven’t died for the universe, Oliver has. 

Oliver Queen will not be dead permanently, and Arrow will continue as long as Stephen wants to play the character.

I can only hope the same for Steve Rogers in Infinity War.

[oli-feli]

—  I don’t know how to tell if you’re real. That’s the Vertigo. It’s just messing with your head. Don’t trust it. 

—  This must be strange for you. Oh. What gave you that idea? I don’t know. Maybe it’s easier for you to hear this coming from Barry Allen.

[oli-feli]

Black siren didnt even make an appearance and she is still my favorite.

Um, excuse me, officer?

[oli-feli]

Beautiful

So here’s my take on the Oliver/Felicity tension. 

This particular conflict isn’t/wasn’t about Oliver. It was about Felicity and her fear of abandonment. 

Felicity feels like she’s changed into a new person (I would say this is an exaggeration because her fears and all her other complicated feelings are amplifying the differences rather than showing her what was already there and what remains that is the same). Felicity has had a fear of abandonment, coupled with the typical gifted child pressure to be ‘perfect’. This drive for perfectionism makes her push herself to always be the smartest, to always dress immaculately, to be the moral center for the team, to cover her emotions with humor and only let them out in private etc. But “new” Felicity bucks some of those habits, particularly the last two. This Felicity is angry, and hurt, and afraid and she’s showing it and acting on it. She’s taking steps that don’t befit the “good girl” “light” of the team. And so, in a sense, it could be considered growth because she’s allowing herself to be less than perfect. 

But doing so is throwing her fear of abandonment into overdrive. There’s a little voice in her head saying, “if you’re not perfect they won’t love you. If you’re not perfect they’ll leave you. And you’re not perfect anymore.” But, at the same time, the anger and the fear and the hurt are pushing her to stay on this path. So she gets defensive of the New Felicity. Whether it’s with Diggle, or Laurel, or Rene, if anyone brought it up she’d snap at them a little and push back, and adopt a general demeanor of not caring what they think. And with them she didn’t try to hide it. Partly because I think she already felt a little bit abandoned by Diggle (and maybe the rest of the team, though I’d have to rewatch her interactions with Rene, because he was pretty on the same page with her) and with Laurel the footing was unequal enough that she still felt she had the moral high ground. 

With Oliver though, she hides it. Just at first. And it may not be intentional, more just trying to assume old patterns. But the idea is also present, Oliver is the one she can’t lose, so he’s the one she sort of tries to be Old Felicity for, the one she’s afraid to show New Felicity. Then danger comes into their home and she responds, as New Felicity. She can’t hide it anymore. And Oliver reacts negatively. 

I’d contend that Oliver reaction is mostly the result of him being surprised, and him disliking the idea that Felicity had to become harder and darker because he never wanted her to go through anything like the things he’s been through. But what Felicity sees is rejection. Especially when he says that Old Felicity “was the woman [he] fell in love with” it sounds to her like he’s saying “I loved the old you, not this new you” (when really Oliver was responding to her saying negative things about her old self and trying to reassure her that there was nothing wrong with the old her). 

To Felicity, Oliver’s reaction paints this picture: she can go back to who she was, and he’ll love her still/again. Or she can stay as she is and it’ll drive him away. He’ll leave. Like her father. Going back feels like an impossibility. What she went through was too much to allow for that. So it seems like an inevitability that, even if he’s not leaving now, Oliver was going to walk away. So she gets defensive and puts up walls and pushes him away. Because better to push him away then for him to leave. At least then she has some control.

When she talks to Caitlin, she claims that Oliver doesn’t trust or respect her but that’s not true. That’s just the voice of her fears. That voice is telling her that Oliver doesn’t love her anymore because she’s changed; that a person that’s less than perfect can’t be trusted, can’t be respected. It’s telling her that if she was still perfect, then she would have sensed that it wasn’t really Oliver, the same way that Iris did. Perfect wives get a love strong enough to see past these things; broken angry wives can’t tell the difference between their husband and their ex because neither really loves them. But admitting those fears, even to herself, isn’t easy so she falls back on old issues of trust that they dealt with before and tries to convince herself that what the voice says isn’t true– that if Oliver doesn’t trust her it’s his problem, not because she is unworthy. As she tries to convince herself of that, she can’t see the real explanation: that she didn’t notice because she doesn’t have experience with other worlds like Iris does, and because she’d been pushing Oliver away even before the switch. 

But when Oliver finally does come to her, it’s with the perfect words. 

“We’re gonna be okay. People change, Felicity. It means we’re growing. It means we’re evolving. Except for one thing, one thing that will not change is how I feel about you. ‘Love’ is  too small a word. And no matter who you are, or what you become– no matter who I am, or what I become– you will always be… you will always be the love of my life. People change. That never will.” 

That speech touches all her fears and melts them away. He is not rejecting her– the new her, the old her– and never will. If she is different, he will love her. If she evolves, he will love her. If she is broken, he will love her. No perfection required. It’s a promise to be her constant, her always, the way he asked to be years ago. No possibility of abandonment. Just the certainty of an unconditional love. 

I don’t know whether this will be the complete resolution of this problem. It seems more likely that there will be a learning curve as they establish new routines and relearn each other. But Oliver stood firm through her attempts to push him away, the same way she has done for him so many times. And now they’re back, headed in the same direction, even if it takes some time to reach smooth sailing. 

[oli-feli]

Not only is it badly written but also badly acted.

Lois lane might be the worst introduction to a chracter in this universe.

The dialogues were as cringy as the acting.

The plot is not interesting.

Dont even get me started on the treatment of oliver queen...both the way he was written and others talking about him.

[oli-feli]

Well....that is the worst crossover ever. And thats including the hawks centric one that oliver lied about william, which is saying something.

[oli-feli]

Unpopular opinion #2: As much as I hated Felicity referring to her old self as weak (and so does Oliver if his face is anything to go by in that scene) I truly think that’s where her trauma is manifesting. I mean think about it, her old self went out in the field, sure, but she always knew she had people who would have her back and her brains to rely on. This time, even with all her mental and emotional strength, she felt she failed to protect herself and her son (which resulted in her sending him away), and she was left alone to fend for herself.

That’s why the moment Anatoly gave her the gun was important because of that. Because being in the other side of the weapon, having the enemy on the other end made her feel strong, like she could protect herself and her loved ones. Her new self is basically Oliver’s old self. It’s a flip. She judges herself more than anyone else can. The self-loathing, now that Oliver is back home, the trauma she’s experienced in the last months is coming out.

And this will be Oliver’s test now. Because he’s come to accept himself and his own light in the prison. Now he has to be her anchor, her guide, her partner, through thick and thin and light and dark, just as she’s been for him.

As much as I hate her ever referring to herself as weak, I understand why she would at the present time.

[oli-feli]

 I am actually incredibly happy about Oliver and Felicity’s development in 708. We got the cutesy anniversary mention and Felicity being on top again (tho ngl I do miss the 9pm slot). And yes, angst fucking sucks especially considering they’ve been through hell and back these past 7 months and they deserve a break, but it was still very well executed and oh god did it show some much needed relationship development on both their part - AT LAST

Yes, they did yell at each other - Oliver mostly due to the shock of seeing Felicity shoot someone, though what’s so different about her shooting an assailant that came into her home to kill her and her stabbing Slade with a Syringe or running over Isabel, or taking down that meta in 318 (ish) or taking a lamp to that Bee lady in 417 or being some ghosts down with a pipe or shooting the hell out of that Card throwing dude in 403, I’ll never know because in all instances she was defending herself and her loved ones. And you know what she was right to get angry and call Oliver out on being a hypocrite.

But that fight was not the important part that I’m happy about. It’s what came after - the fact that they both sat their asses down and talked about it and what the changes in both of them mean for their relationship. They talked openly like adults and had a chance to voice their concerns and fears with each other. In the past such an argument would have resulted with the two of them sulking and keeping to themselves and being petty about it and not having this conversation at all because usually either one of them or both walked out during a fight and things very often were left unsaid.

Having said that, do Oliver and Felicity admitting that they have problems mean they’re over? No. Show me one relatioship on this planet (familial, romantic, platonic etc) without problems? - You can’t. It’s what you do about the problems that counts. Oliver just flat out said that yes, they seem to be drifting apart but that he wants to work on things. Felicity, by telling him that she loves Oliver “more than any human could love another” pretty much confirmed his sentiment that yes, she wants to work on that, too. Them taking some time to figure out how to go forward is not a bad thing. Though I’m already tired from the fake drama and panic that’s gonna flood the fandom from this.

THEY ARE GOING TO BE OK GUYS. This show didn’t spend 6 years building them up just to tear them down again.

[oli-feli]

Same. This season is already my favorite

The last time I’ve written so much about an episode of Arrow was 508 and before that it was season 2B.

Goes to tell you how much I love 708.

It’s def in my top 10 Arrow eps of all time.

[oli-feli]

Actually the fandom has been suprisingly loving it too.

one of the best things about not having time to be involved in fandom right now is that I can enjoy the black siren redemption arc in peace

[oli-feli]

Nope. Curtis is still a writing problem. I mean echo did not come up with the ridiculous 14 phd thing. But he is also not doinh anything special with what he is given so maybe its both writing and acting.

The fact that Boss Beth was able to take e2 Laurel and in the span of 5 episodes make me actually enjoy her scenes tells me a hell of a lot about the writing room this season. It also tells me my main issues with Curtis might stem from acting….

[oli-feli]

I think she lied about him wearing the hood of her student. What didnt really make sense is she knew about his father’s list...unless i dont remember correctly. What if she tracked Robert after the gambit went down and ended up on lian yu. Or yao fei really was her student and she went looking for him and ended up on lian yu came accross yao and robert’s graves so she went looking for oliver instead. There has to be something cause her showing up to teach Oliver in russia just didntt add up. The excuse thats it’s because he was wearing yao fei’s hood didnt make much sense either. So what if he was wearing it? She didnt even mention yak fei after that so im sure he didn’t really matter to her if he was infact her student.

So Emiko is definitely Robert and Talia’s daughter. It will make alot of sense and explain Emiko’s training and how she is almost as good as oliver. It will also explain alot about talia in season 5 flashback cause i always wondered how she knew about robert’s list and oliver’s mission.

[oli-feli]

Oh ofcourse! I mean in the seasons of guggenheim she went from one male villain’s pawn to next despite being more powerful than all of them. This season she only has scenes with felicity and dinah and the dynamic is fun because she is snarky and not all serious like e1 laurel. Katie cassidy also plays this version so much better than e1. The redemption is also going better than i ever expected. Its still a work in progress and she didnt become a saint overnight. The problem with Arrow’s writing has always been the pace. They rush everything and it feels unearned. But every storyline this season is getting its due. Even if you dont like it for whatever reason you cant say its rushed.

my favorite thing this season is BS trying to have emotions when dealing with Felicity

[oli-feli]

My favorite thing this season is BS doing anything. Lol never thought i would say that.

my favorite thing this season is BS trying to have emotions when dealing with Felicity