painted-crow - Tumblr blog

[painted-crow]

If you're looking for @paint-the-ravenclaw, you've got the right blog! You can probably guess the reason for the change.

The tags still mostly use the old names, at least for anything not super recent, because it's a bit more involved to change. Maybe at some point I'll figure out the mass post editor and switch 'em. Maybe I'll get around to making a post index like Wisteria has and the tag system will stop mattering. No promises; I have way more projects than energy, which is why this blog's been quiet for a while.

Anyway, name change. I vibe with crows, they're extremely good. 💙

- Paint

[painted-crow]

are there, like, classic types of burned primaries or secondaries? or common things that burned people tend to latch onto?

(heads up, @wisteria-lodge has asked the community if we'd like to help answer asks to get to them more quickly, and this is one that was sent to me! for reference, i'm a birdpri/badgersec with a snakepri model and a whole host of secondary models.)

obligatory disclaimer these "classics" are what come to mind for me specifically. they're not universal by any means, but they Especially are not universal to burnt house experiences. your experiences are your own.

---

burnt lionpris look like birdpris. they're not. what is a habitual status check to birdpris is endless doubt for lionpris.

burnt birdpris are mostly just really tired of questioning everything all the time and please can they stop? but they can't stop, what if they're Wrong, but what if they get through everything and they're Still Wrong,

burnt snakepris look like idealists. they cannot trust in their people, so they fall back on ideals, but ideals do not fulfill them the way people do.

burnt badgerpris are often bitter and isolated. what do you do when your community fails you?

burnt secondary houses, afaik, mostly just look like All The Houses, but especially they look like a chimerical snake sec. lacking trust in the way they do things means they try basically every other way to do things.

[painted-crow]

so, I'm a discovery writer, which is a traditional improvisational secondary thing... but I build the core motivations of each character before I start, then write by following how the characters would logically interact with each other. Throughout the process, I examine what I wrote and figure out why I wrote it, to find themes and such so I can do them on purpose instead of accidentally. (1/2)

Analyzing why I wrote what I just did is also super useful for keeping track of how my subconscious is doing. I think this is a good example of a rapid-fire bird being internally nothing like a snake despite looking like one (2/2)

Oh definitely, that's peak RF Bird. Thanks for sending this in!

[painted-crow]

hi! I hope you're well. I've been thinking about my primaries and secondaries a lot lately. I'm always interested in people and I'm very good with understanding them too: it drives most of what I do, from my job to my choice of education to what I do for fun. ethics in my mind are also a bit contextual because of this: I can't really evaluate an act without knowing more about the person and situation//it's never black and white for me. I'm not an idealist, I think? (1)

I'm already giggling at this. You are such a loud Bird. "Evaluate an act" is an incredibly Bird lens. I think you might be associating Idealists with rigidity, or with certainty. Healthy Birdpris actually make a lot of space for uncertainty and for being able to say they don't have a good conclusion for whether something specific is Right yet.

And Birdpri systems are complex and built gradually over one's life precisely because there's so much nuance to be had in different situations. Not everything is going to run up against the core axioms of your system (things like "human life is inherently valuable" and "unnecessary suffering is bad").

Idealists can value people too. Birds tend to really value understanding others, it's a highly prioritized form of empathy for us, but not everyone works that way. Someone else might say, "I don't understand but I feel for you," or "I don't understand but I want to help, so you tell me what you need." Other primaries value understanding too, but for a Bird it's the first thing we go for--we feel pretty lost if we don't have some model of what's going on.

secondary-wise, much of the understanding of people thing happens sort of subconsciously--I figure out what's happening w people or how they're thinking or what they really want right 99% of the time, and it's always without really thinking about it. when it comes to other things, though, I usually work like this: I plan a thing/reach a solution for a problem, check w one person I trust about whether it works, then I execute. (2)

You've basically written me a flowchart. You lean heavily on plans and processes. Birdsec.

Having a skill down to the point where it works without you thinking about it doesn't make it not a skill; this is a Rapid-Fire Bird thing, not an Improvisational thing.

Checking your work with someone trusted doesn't make you a Badger; in this case it makes you a very meticulous Bird who's using your resources effectively.

I'm guessing at badger primary (I think just ensuring *everyone* is understood well matters the most to me? so it feels like a better guess than the rest rn), but very uncertain about secondary. feels a little gryffy sometimes but not really? I am anti-charging or plowing ahead--plans keep me sane and calm. I also read through multiple posts about shc cross-verifying traits and analyses and had to feel like I was getting nowhere before I sent this, if that says anything? thank you for this! (3)

Again, the "everyone needs to be understood" thing is a Birdpri trait. Why does everyone need to be understood? So that you and everyone else can factor the full context into your personal decision-making systems, of course! If you care about someone, you have a mental model of their needs and priorities and favorite ice cream flavors, right?

Badger language tends to be more like, "everyone needs to be cared for, their voice heard, not forgotten about--they deserve to get the help they need because they're people." But understanding is so important to Birds because a lot of our identity is often wrapped up in our systems, which we see as a thing that can be understood--and not everyone has this intricately defined worldview that they think about a lot and can explain to other people.

Plans keep you sane and calm and you've been problem-solving your Sorting by doing tons of research and cross-referencing everyone's different writing to come up with a mental model of the system to work with. Also, for all the reading you've been doing from probably a variety of different posters, I was the one you chose to write to--probably because my extremely double Bird writing voice sounds comfortingly familiar.

Welcome to the birdhouse, nonny.

[painted-crow]

Hello, is the SHC discord still active? And if so, is it open to everyone?

Thank you!

Yes! Message me for an invite link :)

There aren't any special qualifications or anything to join. I do quickly check that people wanting in aren't obvious TERFs or anything blatantly harmful like that, but I only turn people away like... 2% of the time. This community is super chill on the whole.

[painted-crow]

I was reading some of the original sorting hat chats stuff about burning, and it mentions that when it comes down to it, all completely burned secondaries look similar and are hard to sort, but a somewhat burned secondary can be identified. Any thoughts about ‘levels’ of burnt secondaries/primaries? I’d think that how burnt your houses are is less of a binary scale and more of a spectrum.

If there is anything in the world that exists as a true binary, and not a spectrum, I haven’t found it yet. 

If you had a truly burnt secondary, if you felt absolutely no joy in your methods anymore, it would be very hard to tell what was under there. But I think it’s much more common to have a partially burnt secondary - one that only comes out in specific situations when it’s allowed, or one that you use but feel guilty about using. Or a temporarily burnt secondary where you’re just - I can’t right now.

Someone with a burnt secondary will either shut down, approach life as a series of orders they are given, fall back on a secondary model, or live completely in their primary (the only thing that matters is what I’m trying to do, how I do it means nothing). I suspect that these flavors of burnt relate back to different secondaries - Lion secondaries have a tendency to just *shut down* as they burn, for example. But I’m workshopping that one. 

Also, you can have an unhealthy model over a perfectly healthy secondary. Sokka just needs to let go of this idea that he’s supposed to be a brash Lion secondary, and there’s a perfectly good Bird secondary under there, just ready to go. 

[painted-crow]

on secondaries ~

(this is kind of an exercise for myself. I'm going to run though an explanation, and see how many words/terms I use to do it.) 

Secondaries are about problem solving. That can be a serious problem, or a problem like “boredom” (which is how secondaries relate to hobbies.) But the question is how do people solve problems. That's it. So a good place to start is how people solve problems while alone.

PART 1 - SINGLE PLAYER

BOOKKEEPER BADGER chips away at a problem in increments. Things are done throughly, all the scaffolding in place. No corners are cut. Usually a community's load-bearing support beam (even if they are personally unpleasant.) Would rather do something well than quickly.

COLLECTION BIRD collects knowledge, skills, tools, contacts. If they want something that doesn’t exist out in the wild, they make it. Tend to have a lot of weird, seemingly unconnected skills. The kings of "work smarter, not harder."

~ these are Built secondaries (or Prepwork secondaries) because the more time Badgers and Birds have to build, the happier and more successful they are. ~

Lion and Snake are much much better known for their interpersonal "multiplayer" skills, that’s what you normally see in fiction. But here's how I see their single-player working:

EXPERIMENT LION "what happens if I plug the thing in the thing?" There's a lot of throwing things at the wall and seeing what sticks. Dive in, figure it out as you go. For examples, think of the more "science flavored" Lion secondaries, like Tony Stark, Lord Asriel, or Merlin (of Merlin.) It's a rarer character type, but it's there.

ENVIRONMENT SNAKE "what have I got to work with, what have I got in front of me, how can I look at it/use it in a new way?" This is Ferris Bueller making his Rube-Goldberg contraptions, or Maria from the Sound of Music making clothes out of curtains. There is also a pot-stirring element to Single-Player Snake: if it turns out that you don't have anything to work with, then do something that changes up the status quo, and react to the fallout. (This a favorite tactic of Jack Sparrow, and the Joker.)

NOTE: I've also seen these guys called "Storage Bunker Snakes," which I think is a metaphor that steps on the toes of Bird a little: when I think of a storage bunker, I think of a collection.

Once interesting observation (thank you @reds-burrow) is that Lions and Badgers work by changing their surroundings, and Birds and Snakes work by adapting to their surrounding. I think this is why a Coiled Spring Badger who has been prepping for a long time before finally releasing can look a lot like a just-go-for-it-and-see-what-happens Experiment Lion. And a Rapid-Fire Bird who is really comfortable in their environment can look a lot like an Environment Snake just coming up with things on the fly.

PART 2 - MULTI-PLAYER

We've all got to interact with people (some more than others.) So how is that accomplished?

COURTIER BADGER - There is no acting, they become whoever they need to be in the moment. Mostly this means mirroring the energy of whatever group they're in, and shifting accordingly. This is still a Prepwork secondary, because better you know a group/person, the easier and more effectively you can match them, and the more trustworthy you will seem.

ACTOR BIRD - They have different personas or roles they have prepared beforehand, and which they are able to pull out when needed. Often Actor Birds give their personas names like "Professional!Me" or "Artsy!Me." It's likely that they modeled at least one after a character or another person. It's also likely that they enjoy or rely on costumes.

BEACON LION - We all know this one from fiction. The person who's going to be completely authentic, and if they alienate people then so be it. They hate lying. They feels safest and most powerful when they just put themselves out there and speak their truth. BUT in real life these guys have to face-change just like everyone else. Their metaphor is a raising or lowering of intensity. They are always themselves, but they can be louder or softer versions of themselves.

MASQUERADE SNAKE - Another favorite from fiction. These guys are a slightly different person with everyone they interact with, and while every mask is them, they don't need to believe what they say the way a Badger does. They're also good at choosing what kind of impression they want to make, and telling 'creative truths' - how do I phrase something to get this person to listen to me?

This group is interesting, because you can break it down in a few ways. The Prep-work (Badger & Bird) vs In-the-moment (Snake & Lion) divide is still definitely there. But I think it's interesting how Badger and Snakes talk about their mirroring and masks as being fundamentally *them.* Birds talking about personas, or Lions talking about raising and lowering intensity will go... that's constructed, that's something different from *me.* Badger & Snake shifting pulls from the unconscious self, Lion and Bird pulls from the conscious self. @sevilemar is right, that is a real difference.

In which case, I guess for me it comes down to:

PREP-WORK (Badger + Bird) vs IN-THE-MOMENT (Lion + Snake) 

DELIBERATE (Lion + Bird) vs AUTOMATIC (Badger + Snake) 

YOU MOVE (Badger + Lion) vs I MOVE (Bird + Snake) 

(And Neutral? Neutral is what you get when your multi-player is not actively face-shifting (and even Lions face-shift a little.) So... when you're existing in your single-player. And there's no reason you can't be having fun with your single player around people.)

[painted-crow]

Nonny you sound like me. For context, in the last year or so I've picked up kind of a Snakesec model, alongside having to lean really hard on all my Actor Bird masks for Reasons. Underneath, I'm an obnoxiously loud Birdsec. But I mention that upfront because I'm actually going to talk about this from a slightly different angle.

See, one of the complaints people have with the term "Actor Bird masks" is that "masking" is also the word for when--for one reason or another--you can't trust that the people around you are safe. Not just physically safe, but emotionally: that they won't harass or reject or abandon you. This kind of masking is associated with neurodivergent people, but honestly I don't think it's exclusive to us.

It's that feeling like you're performing pieces of yourself, showing people what they most want or need to see in you. Or maybe you're performing you but more charming, you but more competent, you but more *whatever* that person values. You're prioritizing the other person's (perceived) desires and expectations over your own comfort and authenticity. And sometimes that's necessary, but it's exhausting. It kind of requires you to become hypervigilant in order to do it effectively. Basically, it feels like you're in a job interview, but all the time.

Both the energy drain from ND-style masking and the constant undercurrent of feeling like it's dangerous not to can take a toll on your mental health the longer you have to maintain them. If this is a constant or frequent issue for you, I recommend finding a therapist you click with and just getting that outside check to make sure you're not dealing with undiagnosed trauma and/or neurodivergence, because knowing about those things is important to being able to take good care of yourself.

(Further reading--I saved this post for myself: how to identify masking --and my therapist was like "yup that's a good post" although it is kind of dense and technical.)

So yeah, of course you want to know people are safe to fully be around before they become inner circle. Makes perfect sense. When you're thinking this way, you kind of have to become methodical about how you handle people. I wouldn't rule out Snakepri for you, buuut it's possible you're a slightly crispy one if so. Sorry. ^^;

You've asked, is it okay? Well... in terms of "can you still be a Snake primary," yes, you might be. In terms of whether that's a happy and unburned Snake primary, probably not so much. *hugs*

Is it okay for a snake with bird primary to have no one fully in their inner circle since they're also snake secondary and behave differently with everyone, thus can't know if any of the potential-inner-circle-material people accept all of themself which is one of the criteria for being inner circle?

Hmm. Snake secondaries in the community correct me, but that... doesn't sound like how Snake secondaries think about their shapeshifting. Since the process is automatic, every mask you wear feels like *you.* If anything, that particular angst of 'they don't really like me, they like one of many parts I play' is more Actor Bird.

(and I dunno.... going by this mini-ask... that primary sounds preeetty constructed. I would look into Bird, both primary and secondary, as possibilities. You might be a Double Bird who looks like a Double Snake, like Blackbeard.)

[painted-crow]

i really enjoyed this insightful ask from a Bird secondary :)

The quiz: when encountering a problem do you take out one of your tools/skills.

Me: no, obviously my immediate reaction to a new problem is to run a quick Google of about thirty articles on the different approaches to the problem, duh. I improvise preparedness! Just give me ten minutes here real quick to pull up a quick plan and I’ll totally be good to go!

The quiz: okay cool you “improvise” preparedness sure, whatever. You’re in a situation where you do not have five minutes of Google time. There’s no time. You need to react right this second. No preparation whatsoever.

Me: what kind of sadistic universe is this? Anyway, obviously this is why it’s great to have some general all purpose fallback skills in advance, so that I can improvise in the moment! This is a very improvisational thing to do. Let me tell you all about my research into surviving survival situations and how to triage in a crisis to decide what to focus on first.

The quiz: so, would you say… You prepared… Skills to help you in a situation?

Me: haha don’t be ridiculous this is just the normal way to exist in the universe. I’m very in the moment and making plans beyond the reasonable small scale decision flow chart I have over here in triplicate is just a way for me to crash and fall, I need lots of room to maneuver and figure out what my next step should be as the situation changes . Preparing too much makes me super anxious and then I have to charge into the situation before I panic!

The quiz: okay, but just to be clear for the audience, what you mean by preparing too much is not, like, any preparation at all. You mean more than a certain amount of preparing.

Me: well obviously I have to have SOME preparation, but that’s just, like, the baseline. The zero the scale is calibrated to. Just the kind of preparation you do like breathing. Just a quick Google of common interview questions, basic negotiation techniques, review a few books of the relevant material… Not, like, actual preparation or anything.

The quiz: what if I took your Google away. And the library. And you weren’t allowed to know anything about interviews in advance.

Me: that’s fine! I already researched interview techniques when I was in fifth grade, just in case I needed them. I can extrapolate the details. 

The quiz: I don’t know how to help you at this point, you are not a Lion.

Me: I needed to be able to CHARGE into interviews, so obviously interview prep books were a no brainer.

The quiz: you were not even in high school yet

Me: you never know when a sadistic quiz will take away Google though. Gotta get the prep in while you can, like all improvisational secondaries definitely do, all the time. But anyway, I don’t have a toolbox and I don’t need a plan, so I’m not a bird!

[painted-crow]

Is there a neutral state for all of the secondaries or only Snake and Badger?

All the secondaries interact with "Neutral" (how you look when you're not working at being perceived a particular way) a little differently.

Snake secondaries talk about their Neutral states being relaxing, like taking your bra off at the end of the day. It's something they do when they feel very safe. They also tend to think that everyone is hiding a neutral state under their day-to-day presentation.

Birds deliberately build personas. They give their personas names, take them off, hang them up in the closet. So Birds slipping into Neutral is usually not very dramatic. It's like washing off makeup. They're going back to the base layer - where they need to be to build and experiment. Birds run into trouble when they get *stuck* in one of their personas, because they see them as tools, not identity the way Snakes and Badgers do. It's like how Jack Skellington hates being JUST "The Pumpkin King" and Edward Teach hates being JUST "Blackbeard."

If a Badger secondary is in a Neutral state around people, that's... not fun for them. Since bouncing off people's energy is automatic and it feels good, if they're not doing that, it's probably because they're too tired, angry, or are in a group of people who they just can't figure out how to gel with.

And Lion secondaries are basically in their Neutral state all the time. Or at least, they'd like to be.

[painted-crow]

Hi! Would it be an exploded bird if I wanted to stop thinking? There are times where I just feel content doing things without thinking. Somedays, I feel okay that I put my conscience on other people, so all I have to do is just follow their orders. Thinking about anything (even morality) can make me feel tired. Some days, I stop thinking about how my actions will affect others just so I can bluntly make a decision and be done with it all. I'm even content with doing that. I can also just (1/2)

try to put responsibility onto others just so I don't have to think. There are also times where I'm able to think, but I feel incapable in making the right decision, so I hope that other people will take the responsibility in doing it. Thanks you! (2/2)

Uwa! Sorry, here's another thing: I've been feeling more and more like this recently, and it's this: I want to stop trying to do the right thing all the time and stop worrying about what's right and wrong. Being moral feels hard, and trying to be moral all the time feels hard. I just want to do something I want to do. This doesn't seem birdy right... (3/3)

Ah, a tired Birdpri. This is more Burned than Exploded, where you've lost confidence in yourself around making moral decisions and everything is just exhausting.

It sounds like you're leaning on a model in its place. I'm going to guess it's Lion primary; burned Lions are notorious for leaning on the morality of the people close to them, and it's not at all uncommon for a primary model you picked up to replace a Burned primary to end up a little crispy itself.

You're an interesting Burned Bird, nonny, because you aren't mentioning any parts of your system you've lost faith in, you're just... tired. I wonder if part of your old worldview involved putting a lot of pressure on yourself to always know and be responsible for all the effects of your actions, even those you couldn't really be expected to predict, because you feel like you should have been able to figure it out. That part of your system may warrant revision, if and when you come back to it.

That's a shot in the dark, but anyway, just remember that you doing your best a) is all anyone can ask of you, and b) on average has a better effect on the world than someone who truly doesn't care about others. (Really.) And I'm not saying that latter category applies to you now, because I do think you're still doing your best--what you're doing is a coping mechanism for burnout, and getting help from others is perfectly valid. :)

[painted-crow]

[painted-crow]

I'm stuck on the "You're at a crossroads in your life" question. What happens is I get a bad feeling and then I panic and research until I feel better about the decision or change my mind completely. I planned a trip and then with Delta I freaked out (even though I'm vaxxed) and was about to cancel. Asked around and researched the area and the risks until I no longer felt dread. But I know I'm going to spend the next few weeks second-guessing myself. Is this Burned Lion? My secondary is Bird.

That sounds more Birdpri. You got a new piece of information (about Delta), then you had to find more information in order to figure out whether you should change your decision.

(Just in case: Nobody yell at anon for their decision. Regardless of your opinion on travel at the moment, we don't know the details here, and they clearly put care into deciding. Anyone saying mean things will be blocked.)

It's normal to be anxious about something like this, nonny. Of course, you could still be a burned Lion modeling Bird (as many do), but if you felt better after your research then I'd look into Bird first.

[painted-crow]

wait, it's a normal idealist thing to hang on to persons whose morality diverge from yours? i think there is not a single person i am close to whose metric of right and wrong/stances on issues is the same as mine. i am kind of comfortable there because one of my fears is falling into an echo-chamber but i thought that because i am okay with this I couldn't be an idealist because of the idealist rep for not meshing with people who are ideologically different. idk i'm confused now.

Yeah, that's a Birdpri thing, especially the fear of living in an echo chamber.

Badgers can get a little edgy disagreeing with their community--not because they think they should leave, but because they might wonder if their community is right.

Snakes tend to pick people who are similar to them in terms of moral code. There are plenty of exceptions, of course, but generally Snakes avoid giving their loyalty to people who might turn out to go way against them on issues they care about. That's a potential clash of priorities and they usually screen those out early.

Lions are probably the most likely to drop people for holding beliefs that oppose their Causes. It's a very individual thing, though.

Birds sometimes feel more stable having people around who disagree with them, honestly. It depends heavily on the Bird whether they keep those people particularly close, but a Bird needs at least some access to different perspectives and opinions or they'll start to feel itchy. Restless.

I lived in a fairly homogeneous university town for a few years. It felt like I was living in a bubble; like I was missing something, long before I pinpointed what that was.

[painted-crow]

I know I'm a Ravenclaw primary but I don't know my secondary. I'm torn between Gryff and Claw. The idea of being true to yourself like a Gryff is appealing but when I try to do it seems very hard. It's just, so vulnerable. You can be as honest as you want, but what people take from your words is not going to be what you want to convey. It's easy to get misunderstood. There's also the fact that the truth isn't always enough. But it seems like a very liberating idea in theory. (1/2)

On the other hand, I really really like it when things I've learnt in the past become useful to me. It's a very joyful feeling whenever that happens. I also enjoy learning and reading for its own sake. Learning as a means to an end though? I lose interest very quickly. Based on what I've read, that seems rather Ravenclaw. Can you help me with this please? (2/2)

I'd say you're right ^^

Admiring Gryff secondary isn't really the same as having it as a House. You can try to build a model/performance if you want! But yeah, if it doesn't feel safe and powerful to you (and I don't think that's because you're Burned), then you're probably a Claw.

[painted-crow]

Just realized submissions got switched off somehow. This was unintentional, or (knowing Tumblr) possibly a glitch--they're back on now!

If your ask is longer than a paragraph or two then it's better off as a submission ^^ makes the formatting easier!

[painted-crow]

Top 5 sortings you would fight ?

You mean, like, who do I think I could take? Uhhhhhh. I guess I could narrow that down.

List of Sortings I DON'T want to fight:

Improv secs. Barring the benefit of training, I'm guessing improv secs are probably better at fighting than Built secs on average, just because they can react on the fly more easily.

Other rapid-fire Birds. We carry weird stuff around, like pointy metal knitting needles or random tools, and we're also more likely to Jackie Chan you with whatever random junk is nearby.

Birdsecs who've trained for this. Really, anyone who's trained for this, if I can avoid it.

Badgersecs who keep up a better fitness regimen than mine. This is not difficult.

As for primaries, idk how much that'll factor in... but maybe I should take my chances on a Badgerpri being reluctant to fight? I guess it depends what I did to piss them off.

My best bet is probably a Badger Bird or a Double Badger. Sorry, guys.

CHOOSE YOUR FIGHTER!

Paint

Pros:

Karate training as a teenager, at least won't break a thumb by punching wrong

Equipment: heavy multitool with knife/pliers; metal pen with a point that can break a car window

Situationally aware, reads body language

Reasonably strong & hard to knock over

High pain tolerance for some reason???

Cons:

Very asthmatic. Seriously. I went undiagnosed as a kid and my gym teachers were always yelling at me.

Usually tired

Not in great shape

Non-confrontational

Slow, telegraphs attacks really obviously

Much better at staying out of fights

If cornered, likely to try to land one good strike and bolt for the exit

Basically the illicit lovechild of a Slakoth and an Abra

...MAYBE CHOOSE A DIFFERENT FIGHTER!