pohjalainen

[pohjalainen]

Hey guys, I was editing my post about österbottniska (adding more accurate info, changing some wording here and there) and in classic Tumblr fashion the post became sort of mangled? Best way I can describe it. I've been dealing with some stuff for the past few months and opted to just delete the post for now. I'll probably put it back up at some point or I'll just make a brand new post altogether.

[pohjalainen]

We can't have a constructive discussion on the Kalevala and its relationship with cultural appropriation without first seeing it for what it truly is - a multicultural hybrid that pulls from many sources.

And claiming otherwise is proof of how little people know about this topic, the contents found within the book, the origin and history of the project, and the cultures and tradition the book borrows from.

There are misconceptions (and a bad game of telephone) at play when it comes to this topic: first one being that Kalevala "belongs" to finns, and the second one being that it "belongs" to karelians. Neither of these ideas are correct nor are they based in reality. This false narrative is solely driven by emotions rather than fact on both sides of this argument, and it leaves out everyone else whose tradition and beliefs are used in the mythos of this story book, including ingrians and ostrobothnians, such as myself. My home is the starting point of the entire project, including runes and concepts which were collected and documented before the birth of karelianism. Without ostrobothnia there would be no Kalevala. The start of the project is never discussed in a truthful manner and I just can't imagine why. I hope it stems from ignorance and lack of research, because honestly I've mostly seen people parrot the same exact unsourced claims without anyone fact-checking what they're actually saying. Finns have historically not been a monolith and to this day some still aren't, for example many ostrobothnians would proudly declare that they weren't finns up to the 1900s. It's also wrong to simply divide Finland into west and east, as this is a bit too simplistic and it creates a binary that doesn't exactly exists. The truth of the matter is that there isn't just one culture, ethnicity, country or peoples who can claim the Kalevala for itself. Nor many the "characters" included, such as Väinämöinen, who is a prominent figure in the runes and beliefs of multiple cultures, such as mine. He doesn't belong to anyone nor can anyone claim him, especially when you consider the fact that his role and nature differs depending on who you ask. Trying to hog a widespread concept to one peoples/culture is ignorant at best and erasure at worst. It's downright depressing to see the "Lönnrot came up with (ostrobothnian deity)" and "finns didn't think their own culture was exotic enough" lies spread around every website. Lönnrot was first familiarised with concepts and ideas Väinämöinen, Ilmarinen, Louhi, Pimentola/Pohjola (to name a few) from published ostrobothnian runes and lexicons, namely Mythologia Fennica. He was familiar with these concepts long before he ventured to Kainuu and Viena, he knew what he was looking for thanks to all the published works he was able to get his hands on. In fact the main reason he went eastward was because he thought he wouldn’t be able to find new material from the documented places in Ostrobothnia, and thus decided he might be able to find more material for his “longer narrative” elsewhere (1). After learning that merchants from Vuokkiniemi had recently visited Zacharias Topelius in Uusikaarlepyy/Nykarleby, he decided to head there next. Even Viena, where most runes were collected, has a unique culture due to being settled by karelians in the 1500s, and ostrobothnians in the 1600s (many of them rune singers). No doubt that pieces of the indigenous sámi (most of whom were pushed northward by the arrival of karelians) also persist in the culture of the region (possibly along with savonian and tavastian settler influence) (2). Just because these populations assimilated into karelians doesn't mean they shouldn't be mentioned when discussing the culture of Viena, and of course Kalevala. While I understand the frustration around this subject, and I do think much of it is justified, it's extremely disheartening to see just how easily attempts at conversation are shot down by both finns and karelians, and how quick people are to completely disregard and shun other cultures and peoples involved... and for what? I understand the anger, but it won't take us anywhere. It’s detrimental to push down others when attempting to uplift one’s own culture.

 I truly wish people did more research on this subject and started to actually respect and acknowledge the cultures involved - and I mean all of them. The ignorance and staggering lack of research concerning this topic is unbelieveable.. and of course extremely saddening. 

Footnotes:

 He explained this in the foreword of old Kalevala. (X)

Karjalan sivistysseura - website’s History section on the settlement of Viena. (X)

I find these two sources the most important to the conversation; however everything I’ve just said is quite easy to research, especially if you speak finnish and swedish. These are not the only sources either, and everyone familiar with this topic knows how skewed this conversation is online, especially on tumblr and twitter.

[pohjalainen]

Yksinkertaisimmat raanut ovat 4-niitisiä. Raanun pohjakudoksena on tavallinen palttinasidos, joksi ennen käytettiin pellavalankaa, myöhemmin etupäässä pumpulilankaa. Kuvat saadaan pohjakuteiden välisillä villaisilla kuvakuteilla. Vanhempana aikana on kuvakuteille avattu tiuhta 1. viriö myös poiminta 1. noukkimalastoja käyttämällä. Raanuja on kudottu kaikkialla muualla paitsi Karjalassa, mutta etenkin Etelä-ja Keski-Pohjanmaalla. (...) Vain Pohjanmaalla on raanu-nimitys alunperin ollut kansanomainen.

Raanujen yksityiskohdat löytyvät kuvateksteistä.

Lähde: Vanhoja kauniita käsitöitä. Toimittaneet Tyyni Vahter, Aino Nissinen-Linnove.

Suomalaisen marttaliiton keräämiä ja v. 1931 näytteille asettamia vanhoja käsitöitä. Toinen, korjattu painos. Werner Söderström osakeyhtiön kirjapainossa Porvoossa 1955.

[pohjalainen]

Moi! Miksi noidat eivät ole tervetulleita blogillesi? Onko se koska et puhu asioista jotka liittyvät tietäväisyyteen vai onko sinulla jokin erilainen mielipide asiasta? Kysyn vain uteliaisuudesta.

Moi! Noidat ovat tervetulleita blogiini, eikä mulla ole sinänsä mitään noitia vastaan. Aika moni kavereistani ovat myöskin noitia.

En kuitenkaan arvosta sellaisia noitia tai uuspakanoita ketkä noukkivat itselleen mieleisiä palasia eri uskonnoista ja kulttuureista, "kasvattaen" siten omaa henkisyyttään ja ns. taitojaan. Hyvänä esimerkkinä voisi vaikka pitää suomalaisten noitien pakkomiellettä valkoiseen salviaan. Kasvi on revitty alkuperäisestä kontekstistaan toiselta puolelta maapalloa, ja hipit ovat antaneet sille uuden käyttötarkoituksen.

Jos noidan uskonto perustuu varastettuun tavaraan ja erilaisten voimien keskenään sekoitteluun ja väärinkäyttöön, katson pahalla. En itse aio jakaa loitsuja tai niihin liittyviä asioita ihan vain sen takia, etten missään nimessä tahdo tällaisten tahojen käyttävän tietojani tai kokemuksiani hyväkseen. Erilaisilla voimilla ei myöskään pidä leikkiä.

Monet noidat ja uuspakanat eivät ole aidosti kiinnostuneita kansanuskosta sillä he jahtaavat spektaakkeleita ja rituaaleja, jumaluuksia mitä palvoa ja mille uhrata. Kotoperäiset perinteet eivät vastaa haluttuja kokemuksia. Monet noidathan identifioituvat tietäjiksi vaikka eivät tiedä tietäjyydestä juurikaan mitään, olettavat sen vain olevan synonyymi noidalle tai loitsijalle, vaikka todellisuudessahan tietäjäksi pitää syntyä. Noidat ja uuspakanat eivät pidä kriteereistä koska eivät suurella todennäköisyydellä pysty täyttämään niitä. Tahtovat kuitenkin siitä huolimatta pakottaa itsensä rooleihin mihin eivät tosiasiassa edes kuulu.

Eli lyhyesti sanottuna noidat tervetulleita jos osaavat käyttäytyä ja olla kohteliaita sekä muille ihmisille että henkiolennoille. 🤠

[pohjalainen]

Samuli Paulaharju: Suomenselän vieriltä (1930)

[pohjalainen]

🐍♦️♦️♦️♦️🐍

hi! I'm a bothnian(/pohjalainen/österbottning) in my 20s. I made this blog to talk about my culture and the history of ostrobothnia. there aren't many posts as of yet but I'm getting there. don't hesitate to message me about anything except for spells and rituals. if you're searching for knowledge/anything to add to your neopagan/witch traditions you are not welcome here. finnish/österbottniska/swedish/english ok. I use they/it pronouns in english and hen/han in östebottniska and swedish.

[pohjalainen]

I get the anger, but this is a gross oversimplification of the Kalevala, though a good example of why this conversation is so frustrating to have with people who've not done enough research on the subject. As an ostrobothnian /my/ cultural heritage is plastered all over the book, and the stuff "Lönnrot made up" are actually deities in our tradition - assuming this line is taken from an article where Maura Häkki claims that Lönnrot came up with Louhi (ostrobothnian deity), as I've seen this claim thrown around where every source is that very article. But if it's not that, I'd love to know which "characters" you're talking about. By denying the origins of the project you're partaking in cultural erasure. These same unsourced talking points circulate both tumblr and twitter, and it's quite frustrating to see, especially as someone whose land nor culture get no recognition outside the small minority who've actually done proper research on the subject.

And the same in English:

Kalevala, the “Finnish National Epic” is a gross, racist, colonialist piece of garbage. It was written and compiled by Elias Lönnrot in the 1800s. This is the gross, racist logic he followed:

-Other countries have epics, Finland needs an epic, but all the ‘real’ Finnish culture has already died away because of modernity.

-Oh I know, the Karelian people are less advanced than Finns! Therefore whatever nonsense they believe is what Finns used to believe, and that is our ancient heritage as well!

-I will go on various trips to record songs and poems and stories by Karelians to find the ancient Finnish epic.

-Hmm, all this material I have collected is a little bit all over the place. This is not good enough. I will have to make some changes. And leave some stuff out. And also maybe make some stuff up myself. Maybe entire characters. Yes, I shall do that.

-Yes, the epic is ready! I can publish it for the whole world to see! Now Finland has an epic and we are ready to get this nationalism thing really going! Whoo! We are a real nation because we have real cultural heritage!

-

Fast forward a couple hundred years and Karelians are regularly called both “just Finnish and your language is just a dialect of Finnish” and “slur for Russians.” Finns have never even attempted to repair what they have done to the Karelians and are actively hindering any attempts at Karelian revitalisation.

And there is currently a bid to get the Kalevala on the Unesco list of intangible cultural heritage. I will be mad as hell if that passes.

Like Finland has real cultural heritage. It has national cultural heritage, it has regional cultural heritage, it has minorities with important cultural heritage. There is a lot here.

But apparently Finns want to die on this gross, racist hill instead. -_-

[pohjalainen]

We can't have a constructive discussion on the Kalevala and its relationship with cultural appropriation without first seeing it for what it truly is - a multicultural hybrid that pulls from many sources.

And claiming otherwise is proof of how little people know about this topic, the contents found within the book, the origin and history of the project, and the cultures and tradition the book borrows from.

There are misconceptions (and a bad game of telephone) at play when it comes to this topic: first one being that Kalevala "belongs" to finns, and the second one being that it "belongs" to karelians. Neither of these ideas are correct nor are they based in reality. This false narrative is solely driven by emotions rather than fact on both sides of this argument, and it leaves out everyone else whose tradition and beliefs are used in the mythos of this story book, including ingrians and ostrobothnians, such as myself. My home is the starting point of the entire project, including runes and concepts which were collected and documented before the birth of karelianism. Without ostrobothnia there would be no Kalevala. The start of the project is never discussed in a truthful manner and I just can't imagine why. I hope it stems from ignorance and lack of research, because honestly I've mostly seen people parrot the same exact unsourced claims without anyone fact-checking what they're actually saying. Finns have historically not been a monolith and to this day some still aren't, for example many ostrobothnians would proudly declare that they weren't finns up to the 1900s. It's also wrong to simply divide Finland into west and east, as this is a bit too simplistic and it creates a binary that doesn't exactly exists. The truth of the matter is that there isn't just one culture, ethnicity, country or peoples who can claim the Kalevala for itself. Nor many the "characters" included, such as Väinämöinen, who is a prominent figure in the runes and beliefs of multiple cultures, such as mine. He doesn't belong to anyone nor can anyone claim him, especially when you consider the fact that his role and nature differs depending on who you ask. Trying to hog a widespread concept to one peoples/culture is ignorant at best and erasure at worst. It's downright depressing to see the "Lönnrot came up with (ostrobothnian deity)" and "finns didn't think their own culture was exotic enough" lies spread around every website. Lönnrot was first familiarised with concepts and ideas Väinämöinen, Ilmarinen, Louhi, Pimentola/Pohjola (to name a few) from published ostrobothnian runes and lexicons, namely Mythologia Fennica. He was familiar with these concepts long before he ventured to Kainuu and Viena, he knew what he was looking for thanks to all the published works he was able to get his hands on. In fact the main reason he went eastward was because he thought he wouldn’t be able to find new material from the documented places in Ostrobothnia, and thus decided he might be able to find more material for his “longer narrative” elsewhere (1). After learning that merchants from Vuokkiniemi had recently visited Zacharias Topelius in Uusikaarlepyy/Nykarleby, he decided to head there next. Even Viena, where most runes were collected, has a unique culture due to being settled by karelians in the 1500s, and ostrobothnians in the 1600s (many of them rune singers). No doubt that pieces of the indigenous sámi (most of whom were pushed northward by the arrival of karelians) also persist in the culture of the region (possibly along with savonian and tavastian settler influence) (2). Just because these populations assimilated into karelians doesn't mean they shouldn't be mentioned when discussing the culture of Viena, and of course Kalevala. While I understand the frustration around this subject, and I do think much of it is justified, it's extremely disheartening to see just how easily attempts at conversation are shot down by both finns and karelians, and how quick people are to completely disregard and shun other cultures and peoples involved... and for what? I understand the anger, but it won't take us anywhere. It’s detrimental to push down others when attempting to uplift one’s own culture.

 I truly wish people did more research on this subject and started to actually respect and acknowledge the cultures involved - and I mean all of them. The ignorance and staggering lack of research concerning this topic is unbelieveable.. and of course extremely saddening. 

Footnotes:

 He explained this in the foreword of old Kalevala. (X)

Karjalan sivistysseura - website’s History section on the settlement of Viena. (X)

I find these two sources the most important to the conversation; however everything I’ve just said is quite easy to research, especially if you speak finnish and swedish. These are not the only sources either, and everyone familiar with this topic knows how skewed this conversation is online, especially on tumblr and twitter.