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procrastinating-mee · 4 years ago

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BL in Taiwan & Gay Marriage

The Taiwanese BL industry casually flexing Taiwan’s marriage equality muscles.

Taiwan is the only country in Asia where same sex marriage is legal.

Taiwanese BL would like you to know about it. And so would I, frankly. So here’s a chronicling of them flexing these well deserved (and hard earned) muscles.

History 2: Right or Wrong (2017) flexed first. At the time the courts had just put into effect that same sex marriages would be legal in two years, so the main characters plan to marry in two years. Then there is a flash forward scene of the two of them wearing wedding rings. This is the first example of two gay characters being legally married in an Asian BL drama.

Predictive flexing.

HIStory 3: Make Our Days Count (2019) the bridge proposal.

Craving You (2020) is half about a gay wedding and that wedding is depicted in the last episode.

We Best Love (2021) Flexes in season one and two, including an engagement.

History 4: Close to You (2021) has two couples flex in sequence and depicted the couple who got engaged in HIStory 3 getting married.

Papa & Daddy (2021) is much less BL and tunnels into being gay in Taiwan (rose tinted spectacles, of course). It showcases Pride* but also how the power of legalization and positive coverage by the mainstream media can broaden minds and guide culture from tolerance to acceptance. Legalization isn’t just so people have the same basic human rights and social protections, it’s so that non-queers realize that marriage equality is humane, decent, and good.

Be Loved In House: I Do (2021) a pretty near pitch perfect ultra soft BL that had the side dishes get engaged and it was so cute.

Love Is Science? (2021) ground breaking het romance where the main couple ends up sort of engaged but it’s the BL side couple who get the ultra romantic proposal in the end. Brilliant! Mark & OuWen will live on forever as my favorite disaster bi + confident gay pairing.

*** Quick note about Papa & Daddy’s Taipei Pride footage because I think it’s super important:

Taipei 2020 - March for the World

in 2020 Taiwan’s Pride in Taipei was called March for the World. Why? Because initially Taiwan managed to control C19 better than any other country, they were the only place able to hold pride safely, so they did it for all of us.

I don’t feel like they got enough recognition for this.

(source)

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procrastinating-mee · 4 years ago

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What are some bls that used the sentence "I'm gay" or "I like boys" when coming out instead of I like a boy or I have a boyfriend or I don't like men I only like him?

BL LINGUISTICS & QUEER IDENTITY

The last bit of your question is about gay for you AKA It’s Okay Because it’s You which is a pretty damaging trope and I’ve talked about it before. So I’m gonna put that one aside.

“I Am Gay” versus “I Like Men” in the Thai Language

“what are some bls that used the sentence "I'm gay" or "I like boys" when coming out instead of I like a boy”

There's a linguistic supposition inherent in this question which is that the language of origin contains the phrase “I’m gay” at all. Because in order to use it, that phase has to exist. Right? Okay. So...

For the sake of argument (and because it is the only one I’ve actually studied) let's talk Thai. Since Thailand dominates BL, there are also the most examples of BLs who might use this phrase. (Please ignore my spelling of Thai words? written Thai to English isn't really formalized.)

I/you like men exists in Thai.

We all know it, they use it a lot in many Thai BLs. But the most iconic version would be Tutor accusing Fighter outside the club in Why R U?, say it with me now...

chorp phuchay

(Sounds like: chore phu chai)

However, to say I am gay or you are gay in Thai actually uses a version of the English word "gay."

Gay is an adopted concept of identity that prior to the globalization of queerness and the English syntax around said queerness did not exist in many Asian languages (as such).

So in Thai to say “verb to be + gay” would be:

bpen gay

(the "gay" is pronounced and sometimes spelled into English as key/kay because the "g" is squeezed sharply as it exits the mouth so it's almost a k sound) This is a strongly aggressive, slightly impolite (linguistically speaking) statement.

This phrase is almost an accusation in Thai because gay is not only a foreign word it's kind of a slur. (See it being used this way in Oxygen in the bar fight scene in ep 7.) It's not quite the same, but the usage in Thai is a bit more like 1970-90s American usage of the word fag before ownership was reclaimed by the community. But because it is a bit of a “dirty” word, Thai age dynamics come into play, placing it in low register. (Meaning regardless of anything else you are less likely to use it with older generations.)

I believe, in Bangkok at least, a community reclaiming is currently occurring around the word gay. But it's still a difficult identity to own. It's just a hell of a lot easier for a boy who wants to be perceived as masculine/male and date men of the same gender to simply say, "I like men." Tian does both in ep 5. To come out to Tul he says, “I like men” but when trying to articulate his identity he says “I’m not sure if it’s the heart transplant or if I am actually gay.”

There is a subtle linguistic acknowledgment and implication that “I like men” is a statement of choice/preference, where as “I am gay” is a statement of identity/existence. The first is something into which you can grow or evolve, the second is something into which you are born but usually learn about as you mature sexually. Now we Westerns hate this idea: that gay or bi could be a choice, partly because it impacts the fight for equality and gay rights (the legality of gayness). We draw very little distinction between a man who likes men and a man who is gay. (Ask a bisexual about this perception sometime and be prepared for a RANT.) But that’s mostly our cultural/linguistic baggage, not Thailands.

This is complicated by the fact that wrapped up in the claiming of gayness in Thai, is an acceptance of an outsiders definition of what gay means. In a way, both the word and the identity associated are foreign conceptually. (Which is not to doubt their existence, just their linguistics.)

In Thailand the word gay has other implications impacting masculinity and presentation and identity because there already exists (essentially) a third gender that absorbs queerness and femme into its makeup (often called ladyboys - common translation of the term in to English, not my choice, but also translated as "third gender" in the press these days). (You can watch a documentary on Amazon Prime about this. Also I talk about it as relates to Thai military conscription here.)

Thus, to claim to be gay or to be accused of being gay seems to exist in contrast to ladyboy. So to identify as gay in Thailand implies you are a masculine man who wants to date other men and not women but you are decidedly not a ladyboy, which means you have rejected 2 societal identities (as opposed to most of the west, where we only reject one), the second of which kind of already was there and considered a (liminal) but more valid alternate option to “straightness.”

Now, this is a conflation of gender with sexual orientation and is so much more complicated than I just stated, because I'm trying to articulate how Thailand's third gender effects a western concept of gayness. It's really hard to explain to those of us who come from a culture that historically, linguistically, and socially, has had only a binary until recently. Language and syntax, like culture, is ever changing.

Back to BL.

So boys who identify as gay from the get go as part of the narrative might say to their age mates or peers that they are gay, but in the act of coming out to an older generation, parents etc... especially they will usually say or imply "I like men." This is for internal cultural clarity, to avoid use of a foreign term/slur, and for the sake of Thai’s formal language and high register.

A perfect example of this is Pete in Love By Chance. He tells Ae outright that he is gay, and never pretends otherwise with his peers. But when he is coming out to his mother he asks her,

"What if I don't like girls? What if I like girls? Would you still love me?"

It’s a gentler more polite way to talk to someone older, and we know Pete is all about politeness.

Outside of Thailand

Outside of Thailand the BL producing countries (Japan, Taiwan, South Korea, Vietnam, the Philippines) do not have as strong, or as socially sanctified 3rd gender. So things are a bit different.

Although Vietnam is close to Thailand and behaves somewhat similarly around visual queerness, linguistically I don't get their language AT ALL, so I genuinely have no idea how they handle coming out. At the moment it's somewhat of a moot point since they have produced very little BL and none of it so far has had any coming out to parents sequences (that I can recall).

Pinoy BL is not my fandom. That said, the Philippines produces its media in Filipino (but Tagalog and Cebuano are the most commonly spoken native languages, comprising about half of the population, while the government operates mostly using English.) English is so integrated and adopted there, not to mention the extensive periods of occupation by the Spanish (1565–1898) and Americans (1898–1946), that both the term gay and the western concept of it is far more common (and similar to our meaning) than in any other BL producing nation.

I talk a lot about the fact that Pinoy BL comes off as more genuinely “queer” to a western audience and a huge part of that is the multicultural nature and social presentation of queerness in the Philippines but it’s also language and syntax around queerness - because the two are inexorably linked.

How this is portrayed in coming out sequences? Honestly I’m not familiar enough with this sub-genre to know for certain. I’d have to rewatch the portion of Gameboys where Cairo talks about coming out to his mother, and where Gavreel talks about being bisexual. But I think they used both the English words and concepts/symbolism seamlessly. I imagine, to a western audience, Pinoy BL coming out would “feel” the most queer to us.

Japan I would need to rewatch Love: Life on the Line's coming out sequence because I can't remember how they do it. But Japanese is a very formal and euphemistic language so I can't imagine they are direct about it.

South Korea has eng subbed the phrase "I am gay" on occasion. I'm thinking about the coming out sequence in Run On, but I suspect that is not a direct translation of what was actually said. I don’t speak Korean at all, so I can’t really comment.

Taiwan is maybe the most likely to have a coming out sequence where being gay is claimed, but I think I recall formal Mandarin also using the English word gay. I can't remember having heard it used all that often. But there may be another word in Mandarin that can be translated as gay (or even queer) but I'm unfamiliar with the language.

Even Ou Wen in Love is Science? who is clearly a very confident gay man says, "I prefer men." I can't remember what phrase Lu Zhi Gang uses in HIStory 3: Make Our Day's Count. But again, even though he is out and openly gay, I don't think he uses the word "gay."

That said, I am sure I've heard the English word "gay" used to claim identity in some Taiwanese stuff, especially among peer groups, Papa & Daddy for example.

Not gonna talk about Mainland China. Apparently, right now, there is no such thing as gayness in China. Although the very few Chinese gay YouTubers I followed back when used the English word gay. That was pre 2016.

Bet you didn’t think you’d get this diatribe when you asked that question...

(source)

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procrastinating-mee · 4 years ago

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If you want to keep the WRU dream alive, if you want to enjoy a completely new story with Fighter and Tutor & join a small fandom that’s been created around this story - I highly recommend checking out-

Even if you don’t think this is your type of story - give it a chance!

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procrastinating-mee · 4 years ago

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Characters who either state it themselves or for whom who the narrative makes it blatantly clear by depicting the character date multiple genders (in real time or flashbacks).

Explicitly bisexual & pansexual characters in BL.

Alex in Until We Meet Again - Thailand 2019

Seryou & Yuzuru in Seven Days - Japan 2015

Phun in Love Sick - Thailand 2016

Gu Hai in Addicted Heroin - China 2016

Pete in the Kiss series - Thailand 2016 on

Mai Ying Xiong in HIStory My Hero - Taiwan 2017

Ming in 2 Moons & 2 Moons 2 - Thailand 2017 & 2019

Shi Yi Jie in HIStory 2: Right or Wrong - Taiwan 2018

Qiu Zi Xuan in HIStory 2: Crossing the Line - Taiwan 2018

Xiang Hao Ting in HIStory 3: Make Our Days Count - Taiwan 2019

Tang Yi in HIStory 3: Trapped - Taiwan 2019

Vee in Love Mechanics - Thailand 2020

Mu Ren in HIStory 4: Close to You - Taiwan 2021

Both boys in Hay Rival, I LOVE YOU! - Vietnam 2021

Jin in Nitman - Thailand 2021

Boss Man in My Lascivious Boss - Vietnam 2021

Our Bi Kings

Neo in 3 Will Be Free

Na in Tonhon Chonlatee

Pure in My Gear and Your Gown

Gavreel in Gameboys

Not Pictured

General Hong Rim in A Frozen Flower - Korea 2008

Wu Suo Wei in Falling in Love with a Rival - China 2015

Fame in Make it Right - Thailand 2016

Method - Korea 2017

Knock in Together with Me et al - Thailand 2017

K in Ossan’s Love - Japan 2018

Shiro Kido in Mood Indigo - Japan 2019

Ying Jia Ming in Capture Lover - China 2020

Otomo Kyoichi in The Cornered Mouse Dreams of Cheese - Japan 2020

Sky in My Day the series - The Philippines 2020

Pearl in Gameboys - 2020

½ of the lesbian couple in Stupid Boys Stupid Love (sorry I forgot her name) - Vietnam 2021

Tiffy in Lovely Writer - Thailand 2021

Eak in Top Secret Together - Thailand 2021

Leon in Don’t Say No - Thailand 2021 (first explicitly pan character)

A Case Could be Made

* I did not include characters stated explicitly by the narrative as gay-for-you because that choice by the writers is explicitly anti-bi. So SOTUS is out.

I didn’t include side couples from het dramas, sorry Mark.

I also didn’t include characters whose source material is bi but whose depiction in the BL was not. So Kaji Akihiko from Given and Win from Until We Meet Again don’t count… yet.

Hit me up with a comment if I’ve forgotten some.

HAPPY BISEXUAL VISIBILITY TO ALL MY FELLOW BI & PAN FOLKS OUT THERE!

And if you can’t be visible, all my support and hopes and good wishes. Fingers crossed it becomes safe and enjoyable for you some day.

Su su na!

Hwaiting!

(source)

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procrastinating-mee · 4 years ago

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This is an accurate representation of what Fighter's single brain cell was going through during this whole thing

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procrastinating-mee · 4 years ago

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Hey, quick question. I need as many details as you can give me. Why is the symbol to make computers brighter a sun?

It’s not, it’s a diode. What look like sunbeams are actually the circuit diagram for the monitor central lighting nexus which controls the diode emissions of the inverse terminal panel behind the lcd screen. When you press the key, you’re actually directly stimulating the internal diotic cortex within the flange bolt, and brightening not the monitor but the distributor cap, which is biphlebotic with the intra-axial dueteronymous epigraph. To darken the screen you have to press the symbol which looks like a sun with shorter rays, but this is in fact the infradystopian pancreatic endomytreal sporangia of the hyperbolic hallux protractor phallanx (of the limax maximus).

Let me know if this is too vague, I can explain it in more scientific terms if you wish.

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procrastinating-mee · 4 years ago

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Oh look! I found the motto of the Thai BL pulps.

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procrastinating-mee · 4 years ago

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Patented move…

Fighter and the lean in loom.

And the three times Tutor got him back:

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procrastinating-mee · 4 years ago

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All of Fighter’s ridiculously unbuttoned shirts.

Series: Why R U?

You know that old rule of suit buttoning: sometimes always never?

Fighter’s shirt buttoning policy seems to be: never never never never sometimes.

Bonus: The two times Tutor buttoned them back up, and the one time Fighter did:

Extra special:

Fighter and Tutor looking like they live in Palm Beach and are relaxing outside their bungalow after a long day working together in their boutique bookstore that also sells seashells, handcrafted balms, and make-your-own beaded bracelets.