sapphicmess93

[sapphicmess93]

If u wanna believe in the stupidity of bychance be my guest just don't clog the byler tag with it ok

[sapphicmess93]

I’ll be coming for your love okay

[sapphicmess93]

and we kissed, as though nothing could fall

[sapphicmess93]

I know a lot of people are joking about the fact that shipping Byler is just basic media comprehension but that's actually my biggest Byler proof. Like... What do you think will happen if Mike doesn't love Will ? That a genuine question because I tried to answer it A THOUSAND times and I still only see 4 possibilities :

1 - Will confess his feelings, Mike reject him. And I'm sorry but I really can't picture it correctly. So it'll just be like "I love you - Well I don't - I know - But let's save the world - Sounds like a good plan." Really...?? No, that won't work.

2 - (And I'm sorry for this one) Will dies. So that would mean the Duffers make him suffer for 4 years just to kill him in the end ? Without even getting the boy he loves ? Nah. I refuse to think it could be that. That wouldn't make sense. They could've just killed him by the end of season 2 at this point, I mean... Let this poor kid have at least some peace ! (Maybe they think death is the peace he deserve... But I would be so deceive if Will die tbh.)

3 - Making Will evil. And I'll explain this one with a simple example in season one : Steve/Nancy/Jonathan. In season 1, Steve is a total douche. An asshole. So that's why Nancy fall in love with Jonathan (and so does the GA). So to make people (and Mike) "choose" El, they just have to make Will a true villain (which is possible because of Vecna and everything) but that won't go well with the character in general... Like as soon as Vecna will die (the end basically), Will is going to be himself again so that wouldn't make sense.

4 - Get Will another boyfriend but then WHY making him love Mike SINCE SEASON 1 ??!! If it was just since season 4, I guess I can understand that he moves on but... It's been 4 years... Not to mention that he was probably in love with Mike even BEFORE the first episode. So no. I still don't see the point in building up the fact that he loves Mike if it's to get him a random dude as a boyfriend. Still makes no sense.

Can SOMEONE, please ANYONE, can try to figure out ANYTHING ELSE ?! And I talk about something that could WORK AND BE INTERESTING TO WATCH, because the simple love confession and rejection would be just useless.

[sapphicmess93]

i hate when people say they want will to end up with some random new character. HES IN LOVE WITH MIKE!! plus i dont think its fair that will gets a rushed relationship, while most of the main group gets that slow build up.

will deserves so much better (s2 mike).

[sapphicmess93]

guys I'm losing my mind I'm crazy

[sapphicmess93]

The Duffers' writing of Byler vs Mil/ven - What it means for season 5

Hop in for a ride cuz this will take a WHILE (but worth it ).

Byler is intentionally very similar to the healthy canon couples for a reason. Lumax, Jopper, Jancy have never needed a love confession because the duffers use "show, don't tell". We are shown how close they are, how much they understand each other without needing to say anything. It's the kisses sure, but it's the shared glances, the shared smiles, the proximity.

It's the heart to hearts, the conversations about their honest feelings. Everything that Byler has, and that Mil/ven completely loses over the seasons.

Remember that Mil/ven "fell in love" in 6 days. Mike basically calls it love at first sight in his monologue. Yet, we have endless proofs the ST writers favour carefully developed, 'friends to lovers' couples. It's not just this infamous Strangerwriters tweet.

This emphasis on love being built on slowburn and friendship is displayed throughout the entire show. Counterexample: Steve and Nancy spent not even 1 episode flirting before they "fell in love". And despite them saying 'I love You' to one another, they broke up. Because despite what she said to her "love at first sight" Steve, Nancy's heart was elsewhere (why is the bell ringing...).

Meanwhile Jancy were friends for a whole season before they even became a thing. Despite them denying they had feelings for one another, all the subtext in their scenes was showing us otherwise. They were too close, understood each other too well, had too much tension for it not to be romantic. Nancy's denying here matters because unlike with Steve, we were "shown, but not told" that she loves Jonathan.

The same goes for Lucas and Max. Lucas also denies the Lumax allegations when he says "She's not my girlfriend!". To which Dustin responds, "Maybe but I could feel it. The electricity". The Duffers know how to write a healthy, loving couple, I mean look at how Lumax is so widely loved. But they rarely do so with words. People can say anything, "boyfriends lie". Rather, it's the unsaid but felt words, the palpable tension, the electricity, that never lies.

When it comes to Mike, he denies (twice) any hint of Will and him being more than friends. Now. The point is not even if he means it or not. Doesn't matter. From a storytelling perspective, this is clearly a pattern. A pattern that, without telling the audience why, seems to repeat itself and lead to the same outcome (which we can all guess by now).

Let's stay with Mike Wheeler, the middle man of his love triangle. Irl, the Byler vs Mil/ven discourse is so heated, because both feel like they're right. Which, in a sense, is true, when you understand the Duffers' writing of this love triangle. We are being told Mike loves El, yet we are being shown Mike loves Will.

S3-4 Mil/ven has been all about those grand displays, almost overcompensating to convince the audience (*cough* or themselves). The constant making out in s3, the over-the-top love confession in s4. Which is weird, as it doesn't seem to align with the "show don't tell" pattern we've had with every other couple. We are told Mike loves El, but until the very end Mike is shown to be closer to Will than to El. Both emotionally (his last heart to heart being with Will) and physically (do I need to elaborate on the final scene or... ok).

To this day, we haven't been told why the Duffers chose to end the season with Mike and Will framed as one of the 3 pairs/couples. But compared with every other romance they've written, it aligns very neatly with their way of storytelling. When it comes to Byler, they've never needed to tell us. They will simply show us.

[sapphicmess93]

I don't understand mlvns who call Will a homewrecker. First of all, never talk to me or my son ever again. Second of all, that is his house. He can't wreck his own house, are you kidding? He and Mike built that house together ten years ago. He laid those floorboards with his own two hands. They share the taxes. They are actively adding new tchotchkes to the mantel. They have a pretty little live edge wood fruit bowl on the dining table. I mean seriously. How could Will possibly be a homewrecker when he sleeps in the master bedroom of Mike's heart?

[sapphicmess93]

Basically the whole ST Fandom (even non-Byler fans) believe Mike will be completely accepting of Will when he comes out.

Then why bother holding off Will coming out to Mike until Season 5?

Unlessssss knowing Will is gay changes how Mike views his relationship with Will? Unlessssss it has some longer-term effects on the plot than a one-and-done conversation?

Why the wait? Why the build-up to this inevitable conversation? If everyone already knows (and Finn Wolfhard has basically confirmed in multiple interviews) that Mike will be accepting of Will, then why is this a plot thread that we’re not having tied together until the final season?

I’ll give you one guess.

[sapphicmess93]

you'll love the post that just went up on ST reddit

was it the mike and will's relationship to dnd one? that one was SO GOOD. i cannot overstate how great it was reading that and i think they put into such clear words what a lot of people feel makes dnd important to mike and will specifically out of the whole party. i did screenshot the post just in case 'cause i have not heard great things about reddit's ability to keep byler posts around.

i love the way they explored what dnd means to mike because i feel like it touches on something that mostly gets attention for will, but also points out how dnd makes mike more like how he used to be which i'm SO looking forward to in s5:

"It's glorious. Mike feels like Mike again-..." YES, i loved hellfire mike for this reason. you see a bit of him peek through with dnd and "have you ever thought that maybe we don't want to be popular?"

and pointing out how dnd is just so mike and will. not just individually, but what it means to them together then talking about what the development of their individual relationships to dnd signifies about their relationships to each other SO GOOD

and the implications of the painting lie. because of all that. this is what makes me so excited for the painting reveal. it feels like it directly hits on their relationship on multiple levels in ways that have been present since their introductions. it's such a good setup and this is such a good articulation of that.

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Anyways, that's not all that was in the post. the whole thing is so cohesive so if anyone is interested, i would 100% go read it. go read it rn. and then talk to me about it pls

[sapphicmess93]

miwi cleradin where will gets a makeshift costume made by joyce and mike's upper middle class family has him go all out

[sapphicmess93]

If the Duffers wanted Mike to reject Will, they would've done it in Season 4

The hold out on having Will coming out/revealing his feelings for Mike only to have it end in rejection doesn't work narratively.

If they wanted to go about this route, they would've done it in Season 4. Mike could've realized Will's feelings, let him down easily, been supportive, and it would've left room for Will to find someone new in Season 5. But that's not the directions the Duffers went. Instead they deliberately chose to leave Mike oblivious to Will's feelings, and leave the painting lie open for a reveal in the final season.

Finn says Mike is "clueless" during the van scene and that the Duffers told him it would "pay off" in the end. Of course this means Mike will find out about the painting lie in Season 5 and realize Will's true feelings for him.

But how is a "rejection" a good "pay off"? To "pay off" insinuates something positive or successful. There would be no narrative reason to hold off on this reveal unless it was in favor of a Byler endgame. They deliberately have kept Mike in the dark about Will's feelings the same way the audience is kept in the dark about Mike's feelings toward Will. We are let into Will's head more in Season 4, and are allowed to see his feelings in a way we're not allowed to see Mike's.

Also what would the purpose be of having a multi-season long rejection arc? We know Will had a crush on Mike from at least Season 2 (based on the line from the Snow Ball scene of Will watching Mike as he danced with El). So that means Will has at least liked Mike for 3 seasons now.

A 3-season-long pining arc wouldn't end in any other show in a rejection, so why would it here?

[sapphicmess93]

Byler but instead of a 2025 queer horror with Cara Buono in it it's a 2007 queer horror with Cara Buono in it

[This is a companion comic for my Cthulhu analysis, which is still one of my favourite Byler essays I've written. Don't let the threat of Willainy put you off tho -- it comes to a happy conclusion, I promise.]

[sapphicmess93]

Will isn't going to have a secondary love interest in Season 5. He's already involved in one love triangle (Will-Mike-El) why would the writers develop a second one?

I could make a lot of narrative arguments as to why I don't see this happening but ultimately it boils down to this: There's no time.

The show is in its last season. The Duffers have already said they're shifting away from adding new romances (Byler is not a new romance, it's been built-up over the whole show) and new characters (few exceptions like Linda Hamilton have been added). They need to wrap up storylines for at the very least 12+ main characters (not to mention side characters). Point being: the cast is stacked enough as is. They don't have time to create a new love interest for Will, especially if it's not a character he's going to end up with in the end. If they wanted to add a new love interest for Will, they would've started it in Season 4.

Will is the main character next season, and he already has a lot going on:

His connection with Vecna and the Upside Down (this will largely take up most of his plot since it'll be the central plot line)

Will getting Upside Down flashbacks from 1983 (like El did in S4 with her flashbacks of Hawkins Lab)

New friendship/mentorship with Robin (and Vickie)

Coming out arc to his family and friends

Contending with his love for his best friend (including the painting lie reveal coming to fruition)

Will has more than enough going on this season.

Also narratively-speaking, I'm sorry but there's no way Will is going for a jock who's bullying Dustin and likely him and his other friends by extension (for being associated with Dustin/The Hellfire Club). That's just wildly out-of-character for Will. And they have zero time to develop some tertiary bully character.

Also adding a secondary love interest for Will at this stage would undermine the central focus of Will's love for Mike, which they're building up over the course of the whole show. We know this isn't a crush, Will is in love.

The most we'd get is maybe a scene of a male character expressing interest in Will, to see Mike's jealous response, or to have Will turn him down to reassert to the audience Will's love for Mike.

TLDR; The ST writers are in crunch time with the final season and don't have time to waste on a secondary love interest plot device.

[sapphicmess93]

How many times does Finn have to compare el to et until milkvans realize that this "couple" won't be endgame at all ..... and was never supposed to be

okay so finn’s new interview… comparing el to et and shutting down the love at first sight argument again… calling her a creature… “close relationships with people who are outsiders”… “a lot of people can identify with it”… “a storyline i really liked doing and i think fans will be happy with”…

[sapphicmess93]

okay so finn’s new interview… comparing el to et and shutting down the love at first sight argument again… calling her a creature… “close relationships with people who are outsiders”… “a lot of people can identify with it”… “a storyline i really liked doing and i think fans will be happy with”…

[sapphicmess93]

I will never understand how the milkvans considered the ily monologue as a win- like I'm never not amazed- are we watching the same show?? if I was rooting for mike and el to be together I'd have felt robbed and betrayed and MAD because of the monologue, like not only does mike lie(which the show itself proves that he did you dont have to read between the lines at ALL) but it's just so cliche, not heartfelt or emotional at least not in the way I'd want a love confession to be(also no montage of cute moments??), like it's so not intimate at all idk how they're happy with it and use it as solid evidence that their endgames confirmed- not to mention the monologue doesn't solve the multitude of problems mike and el have in their relationship like- el wants to feel loved for more than what she can do and her powers and how do you think she feels after mike can tell her he loves her only after she has her powers back is almost dying fighting for everyones lives, stakes are through the roof it's unbelievable like I would not be happy with that(and he mentions her powers mulitple times in his monologue im-). And this is after her own arc for the season and confronting the real monster in her life and seeing herself(it was beautiful might I add) but mike contributed like nothing to her growth all season- and the ily doesn't add anything either so no problems solved on el's side(also not a single conversation post love confession? yikes and to get that confirmation with yet another conversation mike and will? BIG YIKES FOR MILKVANS). Now on mike's side- everyone says his problem was saying ily and he did that hooray his problems are solved but that's not it. His problems weren't him being unable to communicate how he feels to someone he cares about a lot(we already know he can do that ahem nearly every heart to heart with will) no his problems are literally spelled out for us in every conversation he has with will, all his insecurities and feelings of worthlessness and less than. Him telling his super powered gf how amazing strong powerful she is and that he loves her doesn't solve ANY of his issues, he's still putting her on a pedestal, he still thinks of them as not equals and we don't get even a single conversation where they talk about it, the closest thing we got to a conversation that couldve led to growth was the ily fight and el shut mike down- LIKE everyone shits on mike for being a bad boyfriend but el wasn't the best girlfriend and yeah she had her own issues and reasons but SO DOES MIKE and the only person he's talked to about them is will the only person that's helped mike feel better about them is will and you expect to me to still root for two people that make the other feel awful when theyre together instead of "you make [me] feel like [I'm] better for being different" and "if we're both going crazy then we'll go crazy together" LIKE CMON