shadowpaintedrose

[shadowpaintedrose]

Strange times at the Agreste household

[shadowpaintedrose]

I’m in favor of a complete retcon. Whether it’s cheap or doesn’t make sense or whatever, it doesn’t matter. But anything after 15x19 CANNOT be valid. Make it a fever dream. Make it an imagination of Chuck’s ending. I don’t care. As long as the whole thing ends up in the trash. It should be the butt of a joke.

any continuation or extension (or whatever you want to call it) of Supernatural will, by necessity, have to in some way denounce or overwrite or undo the finale. They can’t just “get bored in Heaven” and ask to be sent back for another go at life, because it’s already at LEAST 40 years in the future there now. And unless this show is basically gonna become some futuristic nonsense thing (in which case I wouldn’t bother watching it, because wtf…), then they’re going to have to return to the somewhat-present.

Time might “work different” in Heaven, but I’m pretty sure it still can’t go backward, and there won’t be “two Sams” living on Earth (one with blurry wife and Replacement!Dean, one doing whatever they do on the show). If they’re going to restart the show in any way, they need to address the travesty of the finale, not just start from it as an assumption of “this actually happened exactly as it appeared.”

Brought to you by the part of my brain that just starts screaming every time anyone insists that they’re all in Heaven, or that “everyone is dead” was actually how the show “had to end,” because death is something this show has laughed at for fifteen years and literally NOBODY believes that death is final on this show.

Not to mention, “hey, I’m bored, what say we take another run at Earth for a while?” for no other reason is facile and reductive and just… dumb, honestly. What is the point of the story then? I don’t really want to watch a continuation that’s based solely on the characters having grown bored, because that in itself goes against what their “perfect heaven” with (what they are led to believe is) free will and every option open to them. Either that is true and there is no such thing as boredom there because it’s just like Earth without the conflict and suffering, or else it’s a lie and that renders the finale a lie anyway… you can’t have it both ways.

Either way, the finale needs to go in the trash where it belongs. I’m just not sure I trust that anyone involved in any potential return of the show would bother dealing with it… It’s pretty much the only thing I grumble about every time they bring up the potential for a reunion of any sort.

[shadowpaintedrose]

why did this make me cry?

Bibbity bobbity boo!

I had my own fairy godmother this weekend at comic con. So magical.

[shadowpaintedrose]

[shadowpaintedrose]

Yeah 😭 

(insp.)

[shadowpaintedrose]

ETA: The tl;dr of this is thanks to @mittensmorgul reminding us of the phrase “Fortune favors the bold”.

I wonder also if there’s any credence to: "No good e'er comes of leisure purposeless; And heaven ne'er helps the men who will not act.” (and not conflate heaven with God) 

—-

I didn’t want to pop onto any posts and write this. but basically, i’ve been seeing some not-so-happy reactions to Fortuna and the resolution of that episode plot yesterday. 

I  personally viewed this as a way for them to not have the rug pulled out from under them again by God. Not that it’s luck but that it’s kind of like some extra support to go after him and kick him in the dick or whatever. Other Gods hate him. We’re beginning to see all these players that can be used to move against God also with Jack coming back as well. 

I wound up not subscribing to the theory that they lost luck. In the end, I feel like it was more that God put a veil over their ability to function and heightened the consequences. It felt like bad luck, it was manufactured bad luck, but that meant it wasn’t meant to be there. It felt like it was all absurd circumstances meant to humiliate them. I felt like this was them getting now this shield so it won’t happen again. There’s only so much they can do on their own. They always had the skills though, and this was just some help breaking the chains that were holding the effectiveness back. 

And also, the realization that they do have the skills and they are selfless and want to truly help people and save people. They care about Humanity. All the people were let go in the end as well. There wasn’t a “luck balance” where one has to take from another in order to have luck (which reminded me of “Faith”). They were all let go in the end, and Sam and Dean got this sort of a shield from an unlikely ally, especially considering Sam and Dean don’t really get along with other Gods too much. It felt like a Hammer of the Gods redux. Not using them as bait, but giving them tools to help them win, and if that tool is just making sure God couldn’t fuck with them anymore, then so be it. 

Idk. I only watched the episode once so far so I may be missing some bits. 

I’d be interested in more thoughts here, even if they diverge from mine! If there is still a negative connotation with what happened, I do expect it to be subverted if it’s meant to be subverted. 

[shadowpaintedrose]

Okay I stan Fortuna

[shadowpaintedrose]

Oh that’s interesting... the same actress once played a djinn on the show before.

Okay I stan Fortuna

[shadowpaintedrose]

Okay I stan Fortuna

[shadowpaintedrose]

KNOW WHEN TO FOLD ‘EM, BOYS

[shadowpaintedrose]

Fortuna is sexy as hell, sorry, not sorry.

[shadowpaintedrose]

This is awful... I want the boys to regain their luck but I feel really bad for the people who are losing. :(

[shadowpaintedrose]

Yikes... let’s hope Dean knows when to walk away.

[shadowpaintedrose]

but oh crap, why is he standing at a crossroads with a shovel???

misha

[shadowpaintedrose]

I think the biggest problem Saileen shippers are having with all of this is your attitude. You are practically GLEEFUL that it looks like things might not work out for us, and are instead using it to prop up your own ship and vindicate yourself. I think you’re too focused on being right on this one (and on many other topics.) ship whatever you want, but have the grace to let others do the same and not rub last night’s episode in our faces. Thanks.

I haven’t propped up any ship?

When I expressed dubiousness over Eileen’s miraculous sudden return after three years of zero mentions of her, and was suspicious of how she returned– which… was a legitimate thing to discuss considering the Big Bad of the season is a writer with the power to manipulate “the story” to his liking… I was… let’s be honest here and call it “attacked” for wanting to even question the narrative.

I was called “delusional,” I was called “ableist.” I was called a lot worse things, and completely bowed out of the discussion at all to AVOID stepping on the toes of people who were enjoying the relationship as they saw it. All the while attempting to discuss what was happening in actual canon without talking much about Eileen as a character. Because every time I did, the shaming began again, and sucked all the fun out of even talking about the show for me.

So, yeah. I’ve been anticipating this episode for MONTHS. When I’ve been called “delusional,” which… thanks everyone who pinned that label on me over a fictional ship… I’m feeling like I’m due an apology from the people who said those things to me, an actual human being, for wanting to talk about actual canon on the internet for fun.

I’m not trying to rub it in people’s faces… I just want to live here. Saileen might still be endgame! I haven’t said it wasn’t! They could choose each other in the end! But we need to acknowledge that their relationship to this point is FANON. I’m all for shipping them in FANON. I have literally written fic shipping them! But in canon, there’s no romance there, outside of what Chuck plotted for them.

They could absolutely CHOOSE each other in the end, despite how Chuck tried to manipulate them. But I make it a point, when I write meta of the show, to do my best to discuss canon honestly, as I see it. And I was silenced by saileen shippers for the last month and a half over exploring this huge aspect of canon.

Sorry if I’ve come off in a negative light over it. Sorry if it feels a bit like an obnoxious touchdown dance on my part here. But how I, a real human being, was treated by saileen shippers for the last month and a half because I wasn’t willing to jump on the bandwagon with both feet is frankly disturbing to me. So forgive me if I’m not entirely gracious about having been right all along.

I wasn’t willing to argue in public with the inbox full of nasty anons I’ve received, and therefore don’t have a public trail of harassment to point at here. But the fact I haven’t been talking about it in public, and resorted to mostly talking about Sam, Eileen, and their relationship in private discussions with a handful of people, should be proof enough that this wasn’t about my dislike of the ship. Like Dean in canon, I could see the potential there. I wasn’t about to step on the toes of people who were enjoying that potential, and I never ONCE interfered with people writing their own headcanons and interpretations of their relationship. And yet… y’all… I have been insulted, mocked, vagued-at, called all sorts of horrible things, just for questioning the plot of the entire season because I wasn’t willing to accept what we were seeing at face value. For months, I’ve felt like I wasn’t allowed to discuss canon openly on the internet, for fun, because I had a different take on it. So… I’m due a few hours of gloating after all that. And if you don’t think so, then I hope this sort of thing never happens to YOU. I hope you are never treated like I was for just having a differing opinion on the internet.

I promise to return to my normal level of chill, now, and will from this point forward discuss canon as I see it… as long as we can all agree that in doing so I’m not trying to invalidate anyone else’s read on things. I’m just stating my own opinion, without judgment, because that’s what meta is supposed to be.

[shadowpaintedrose]

I think the biggest problem Saileen shippers are having with all of this is your attitude. You are practically GLEEFUL that it looks like things might not work out for us, and are instead using it to prop up your own ship and vindicate yourself. I think you��re too focused on being right on this one (and on many other topics.) ship whatever you want, but have the grace to let others do the same and not rub last night’s episode in our faces. Thanks.

I haven’t propped up any ship?

When I expressed dubiousness over Eileen’s miraculous sudden return after three years of zero mentions of her, and was suspicious of how she returned– which… was a legitimate thing to discuss considering the Big Bad of the season is a writer with the power to manipulate “the story” to his liking… I was… let’s be honest here and call it “attacked” for wanting to even question the narrative.

I was called “delusional,” I was called “ableist.” I was called a lot worse things, and completely bowed out of the discussion at all to AVOID stepping on the toes of people who were enjoying the relationship as they saw it. All the while attempting to discuss what was happening in actual canon without talking much about Eileen as a character. Because every time I did, the shaming began again, and sucked all the fun out of even talking about the show for me.

So, yeah. I’ve been anticipating this episode for MONTHS. When I’ve been called “delusional,” which… thanks everyone who pinned that label on me over a fictional ship… I’m feeling like I’m due an apology from the people who said those things to me, an actual human being, for wanting to talk about actual canon on the internet for fun.

I’m not trying to rub it in people’s faces… I just want to live here. Saileen might still be endgame! I haven’t said it wasn’t! They could choose each other in the end! But we need to acknowledge that their relationship to this point is FANON. I’m all for shipping them in FANON. I have literally written fic shipping them! But in canon, there’s no romance there, outside of what Chuck plotted for them.

They could absolutely CHOOSE each other in the end, despite how Chuck tried to manipulate them. But I make it a point, when I write meta of the show, to do my best to discuss canon honestly, as I see it. And I was silenced by saileen shippers for the last month and a half over exploring this huge aspect of canon.

Sorry if I’ve come off in a negative light over it. Sorry if it feels a bit like an obnoxious touchdown dance on my part here. But how I, a real human being, was treated by saileen shippers for the last month and a half because I wasn’t willing to jump on the bandwagon with both feet is frankly disturbing to me. So forgive me if I’m not entirely gracious about having been right all along.

I wasn’t willing to argue in public with the inbox full of nasty anons I’ve received, and therefore don’t have a public trail of harassment to point at here. But the fact I haven’t been talking about it in public, and resorted to mostly talking about Sam, Eileen, and their relationship in private discussions with a handful of people, should be proof enough that this wasn’t about my dislike of the ship. Like Dean in canon, I could see the potential there. I wasn’t about to step on the toes of people who were enjoying that potential, and I never ONCE interfered with people writing their own headcanons and interpretations of their relationship. And yet… y’all… I have been insulted, mocked, vagued-at, called all sorts of horrible things, just for questioning the plot of the entire season because I wasn’t willing to accept what we were seeing at face value. For months, I’ve felt like I wasn’t allowed to discuss canon openly on the internet, for fun, because I had a different take on it. So… I’m due a few hours of gloating after all that. And if you don’t think so, then I hope this sort of thing never happens to YOU. I hope you are never treated like I was for just having a differing opinion on the internet.

I promise to return to my normal level of chill, now, and will from this point forward discuss canon as I see it… as long as we can all agree that in doing so I’m not trying to invalidate anyone else’s read on things. I’m just stating my own opinion, without judgment, because that’s what meta is supposed to be.

[shadowpaintedrose]

The discussion is overdue. It’s not about going “poo-poo, I hate this ship and I’m celebrating its failure.” Anyone with a functioning brain should realize that that’s clearly not where Mittens is coming from on this.

We’ve all felt at some point a certain sense of satisfaction when we recognize something in the narrative that turns out to be true. Neither Mittens, nor I, nor anyone else is going “Wooo the ship is dead!” It’s more like, “Cool, I recognized that there was something wrong here. I’m glad that that turned out to be the case rather than the hamfisted romance it would have been otherwise.” It still has the potential to build back up healthily, and that would be fine. But this isn’t some grand romance at this very moment, and it shouldn’t be. Both Sam and Eileen have some healing they need to do.

I think the biggest problem Saileen shippers are having with all of this is your attitude. You are practically GLEEFUL that it looks like things might not work out for us, and are instead using it to prop up your own ship and vindicate yourself. I think you’re too focused on being right on this one (and on many other topics.) ship whatever you want, but have the grace to let others do the same and not rub last night’s episode in our faces. Thanks.

I haven’t propped up any ship?

When I expressed dubiousness over Eileen’s miraculous sudden return after three years of zero mentions of her, and was suspicious of how she returned– which… was a legitimate thing to discuss considering the Big Bad of the season is a writer with the power to manipulate “the story” to his liking… I was… let’s be honest here and call it “attacked” for wanting to even question the narrative.

I was called “delusional,” I was called “ableist.” I was called a lot worse things, and completely bowed out of the discussion at all to AVOID stepping on the toes of people who were enjoying the relationship as they saw it. All the while attempting to discuss what was happening in actual canon without talking much about Eileen as a character. Because every time I did, the shaming began again, and sucked all the fun out of even talking about the show for me.

So, yeah. I’ve been anticipating this episode for MONTHS. When I’ve been called “delusional,” which… thanks everyone who pinned that label on me over a fictional ship… I’m feeling like I’m due an apology from the people who said those things to me, an actual human being, for wanting to talk about actual canon on the internet for fun.

I’m not trying to rub it in people’s faces… I just want to live here. Saileen might still be endgame! I haven’t said it wasn’t! They could choose each other in the end! But we need to acknowledge that their relationship to this point is FANON. I’m all for shipping them in FANON. I have literally written fic shipping them! But in canon, there’s no romance there, outside of what Chuck plotted for them.

They could absolutely CHOOSE each other in the end, despite how Chuck tried to manipulate them. But I make it a point, when I write meta of the show, to do my best to discuss canon honestly, as I see it. And I was silenced by saileen shippers for the last month and a half over exploring this huge aspect of canon.

Sorry if I’ve come off in a negative light over it. Sorry if it feels a bit like an obnoxious touchdown dance on my part here. But how I, a real human being, was treated by saileen shippers for the last month and a half because I wasn’t willing to jump on the bandwagon with both feet is frankly disturbing to me. So forgive me if I’m not entirely gracious about having been right all along.

I wasn’t willing to argue in public with the inbox full of nasty anons I’ve received, and therefore don’t have a public trail of harassment to point at here. But the fact I haven’t been talking about it in public, and resorted to mostly talking about Sam, Eileen, and their relationship in private discussions with a handful of people, should be proof enough that this wasn’t about my dislike of the ship. Like Dean in canon, I could see the potential there. I wasn’t about to step on the toes of people who were enjoying that potential, and I never ONCE interfered with people writing their own headcanons and interpretations of their relationship. And yet… y’all… I have been insulted, mocked, vagued-at, called all sorts of horrible things, just for questioning the plot of the entire season because I wasn’t willing to accept what we were seeing at face value. For months, I’ve felt like I wasn’t allowed to discuss canon openly on the internet, for fun, because I had a different take on it. So… I’m due a few hours of gloating after all that. And if you don’t think so, then I hope this sort of thing never happens to YOU. I hope you are never treated like I was for just having a differing opinion on the internet.

I promise to return to my normal level of chill, now, and will from this point forward discuss canon as I see it… as long as we can all agree that in doing so I’m not trying to invalidate anyone else’s read on things. I’m just stating my own opinion, without judgment, because that’s what meta is supposed to be.