slumbering-flowers

[slumbering-flowers]

Interview with a dragon (on physical nonhumanity)

Special thanks to our host for helping me transcribe this into a readable format. Word count: 611

How would you describe yourself?

I’m a dragon, a drake (wingless dragon) more specifically. At the moment I’m also spirit, like some of the other members in our system, as someone who had once been alive and arrived here after death.

What is it like being a dragon? What do you do in a day?

Asking “what is it like being a dragon” is about as vague as “what is it like being a human”.

For what I do, I hibernate. The main things I do are sleep and hold a conversation if someone wants it. I don't move around much, if at all. Some might not consider that fulfilling, but having lived a full life already I don’t exactly yearn for much. I’m content with resting.

In what way are you physically nonhuman? Does your experience intersect with humanity in any way?

It does not, no. I've never been a human and wouldn't know much about it. I’m physically nonhuman in a similar way theriform animals are. This is also why I don't use terms such as otherkin or therian, since theriform animals aren't otherkin or therians of their own species.

How did you learn you were physically nonhuman?

It wasn’t really something I had to discover, I was born as a dragon and died at old age as a dragon. Now even as a spirit I’m still a dragon.

Why would — or wouldn’t — you go with the different types of physical nonhumanity?

Holothere as a term is too broad for me to want to use it, in a similar vein as someone acknowledging they fall under alterhumanity but don’t identify solely as alterhuman because of its broadness. It’s not specific enough. Clinical zoanthrope didn’t match at all since that’s not what I experience, and neither did endel.

Extranth I’ve settled on as “close enough” since I’m a nonhuman system member, although I wish I had something more specific for “extranth that lives in the headspace and not through the meatspace body”.

Some will argue that you’re still ultimately having a human experience, how do you respond?

I speak human language because when I was alive I was allied with a human village that I wanted to communicate with. I disagree that a nonhuman experiencing human influence erases or lessens their nonhumanity, or that sharing a behavior with humans makes them human by default. Two different species can have similar or the same qualities without them being non-distinct.

I don’t exist in the same world that those in meatspace do, I’m just an observer of it from elsewhere. Even if at some point I manage to figure out how fronting works, an example we like to use is “you don’t turn into a bike when you ride one”. If I manage to pilot the human body for some period of time, I won’t magically know the firsthand experience of living a human life.

Are there any struggles or frustrations you have?

It’s frustrating to have others jump to conclusions about myself despite how much I try to explain; the niche of physical nonhumanity that I experience tends to break brains. No matter what, people will reason that I am in some way perceivably human. They’ll assume that I’m a clinical zoanthrope, or an endel, or the associative type of physical nonhuman (IE: I’m nonhuman therefore my body is nonhuman). The very last thing that ever tends to be considered is that I’m being very literal in what I explain about myself, and that annoys me.

Are you interested in any human activities?

Not particularly, I never found myself all that interested in the outside world post-death. I suppose I enjoy swimming, and fishing. But not fishing-pole fishing, fishing in the way seabirds fish, since that’s the way I’d done it when I was alive.

[slumbering-flowers]

This isn't necessarily true. Physical humans can identify as nonhuman, so it wouldn't make much sense for the double-standard of "physical nonhumans cannot be human" to exist. I have seen this even, where nonhumans identify as human for various reasons. These aren't mutually exclusive things. (Also I'm not sure if this was intentional, but otherheartedness is alterhumanity as well, not something seperate. Alterhumanity does not only include identify-as labels)

To respond to the OP though, I agree that a linked identity can be physical. Hearted I'm not so sure about, since if you are your hearttype then you're kind of moving past otherheartedness and into identify-as labels. Of course, this isn't counting those that have a hearttype and [identity]type of the same thing. Redundancy aside, people have done it before, so it's up to you if that resonates with you.

Is it possible for Otherhearted, Otherlinkers, etc to be physical?

Ive had this though in my brain ever since i discovered therianthropy can be physical. Is it possible for other identities similar to those that end with "kin" to be physical, such as otherhearted? Otherlink? I may be answering myself here, though this is opinion wise, I personally believe that otherhearted identities cant be physical, why? Well, its in the definition of otherhearted. Identifying "with" something. This means that it would not be possible to be a physical identity because you are not that thing you are identifying with. Right? Thoughts on this take? On the other hand, otherlink can 100% be physical, this is because otherlinking can choose to connect with, identify as, or most likely anything due to their identity. So why not choose to identify as something physical? Thoughts on this take too? Ive never heard of physical otherlinks, otherhearted (if its possible, idk though), etc besides, well, me. I would say im a physical canine (otherlink or otherhearted, though idk, still wondering which one it is.) due to the fact i have a connection with them, but not as them, and i would like to think i choose this but idk.. Great now im confusing myself even more.. :/ Any thoughts on physical otherlinks, otherhearted, etc?

[slumbering-flowers]

My host wrote about this once, here's a few bulletpoint reasons why one might do this:

- In another life they had/have said name

- Because they want to and not much else

- Integration is a spectrum and some experience therianthropy in a plural-adjacent way, with "them as their theriotype" being completely seperate from "them as a human" and so they might name "their animal(side)".

- etc.

Why do some people name their therioside? It honestly makes no sense to me, because my theriotypes are... Me? Literally just me. If it's not its own entity, why would I give it a name?

I'm genuinely confused.

[slumbering-flowers]

> "There's nothing good or healthy about physical therians"

It's not inherently unhealthy, distressing or something that "gets worse" for everyone, that's a wide generalization. This even generalizes that all zoanthropes are "my existence is suffering", which isn't the case either.

> "Physical therianthropy and zoanthropy are one and the same thing"

No, they're not. Not all physical nonhumans are zoanthropes or disordered.

If you see someone that is physically nonhuman, please for the love of all that is holy and unholy do not try to lecture them or tell them to "get help". The account in the photos seems to be using their own personal experience as the universal experience, which is not what you should do for infographics. Their criteria of alterhuman is also wrong, it is not limited to psychological beliefs only. I'm not sure where they heard this from.

They know what they're talking about when it comes to their own personal experience, but not physical therians or nonhumans in general.

Look what I just found I’m not a physical therian but I’m curious what u guys think abt this

I’m not that educated so please educate me ^^

Anddd

I’m curious what tumblr thinks cus ppl on here are a lot more accepting

[slumbering-flowers]

if youd like to, then interact with this post if youre an alterhuman (therian, extranth, copinglink, otherhearted, otherkin, etc etc) and youre also over the age of 21 !! i see a lot of people saying that we are mostly kids but i find that hard to believe. plus, i want more mutuals !!

[slumbering-flowers]

On "I don't identify as, I am" language

While this is no means an issue exclusive to the physically nonhuman community, that is the community I consider myself a part of, so that will be my focus.

With the steady growth in individuals being open about their physical nonhumanity (holotheres and clinical lycan/zoanthropes included), I think we-as-a-community need to sit down and have a discussion on language in order to nip something in the bud before it gets out of hand:

I don't "identify" as [thing], I am [thing].

This phrasing ^ is something I have seen a lot in an attempt to try and create a difficult-to-word distinction from otherkin and therians and the like. I understand there is no harm meant in this (again, it's a very difficult thing to communicate), but we need to be careful not to stray into common bigoted phrasing to try and describe things. Even if it is completely unintentional, the phrase above still carries the connotation that "identifying" as something is somehow different from being the thing, that they are on some level not ""truly"" what they say they are. We must remember that these are synonyms, you are what you identify as, that's what "identify as" means.

To use a personal example: yes, I identify as a dragon. Because I'm a dragon. If I didn't identify as a dragon then I would say I'm something else. To give it a parallel: I identify as female. Because I am female. If I didn't identify as female then I would say I'm something else. If someone identifies as something then they are that thing, full stop. We risk straying into dangerous territory if we mirror phrasing used against transgender individuals on a regular basis. "I don't identify as, I am" is not only flawed and inaccurate phrasing, but carries poor connotations.

I've made some posts in the past about how I've had some difficulty communicating in many otherkin or therian spaces because me physically being a dragon is sometimes quite different experience-wise (not 100% of the time, but often). It is difficult to phrase "was born a dragon, has always been a dragon and never been anything else" in a way that doesn't imply that non-physical dragons aren't dragons still. Because they are.

But what is a better way to say this then? Do we need wording to create distinctions for those that are perceptibly human and those that are not? Even this isn't so simple, because physical nonhumans that seem human outwardly also exist. That doesn't entirely solve the linguistic gap.

[slumbering-flowers]

For me personally, I'm a spirit in a system of spirits. The host's body might be human, but it's not my body and I don't live through it. I'm still a dragon in my original body, like I was when alive

Hello physical non humans or holotheres (I think?)

I’m not very educated on this so if some of u can rebark explaining how you identify and how you know ect and how it’s diffrent to clinical zoanthropy because I’m curious if not just dm me ^^

I’m also going to do a poll so please answer on that

[slumbering-flowers]

My complicated relationship with alterhuman as a physical nonhuman

A recent poll got me thinking about my complicated relationship with alterhumanity (the label). It does apply in the sense that I am part of a system, and it can be useful for that, but if you asked in a conversation if I was alterhuman then my short answer would be "no". The reasoning is the same as how an animal you see outside wouldn't be alterhuman, it would just be that animal. I don't have an alternative identity experience. I suppose I do in the sense that the dragon experience is different from the human experience, but again, so is the experience of someone's pet cat, and that cat isn't alterhuman.

So I suppose I'm alterhuman by proxy, but I personally don't identify as alterhuman. It feels strange to do so purely because of where I reside. I'm not -hearted/kith/synpath, or have archetypes, or have a hearthome, or otherkin, or therian, or the laundry list of other things commonly referenced under the umbrella. I do consider myself physically nonhuman, which still falls under alterhuman, but now we circle back around to the cat example again. The cat isn't alterhuman, it's just a cat.

At the end of the day it doesn't stop me from sharing about the times I was still a living dragon, many alterhumans have past lives. The same is true about the body experience, since it's common to have phantom limbs as well, the only disconnect being that theirs are "phantom" and mine are not, and it can be difficult to relate in that sense.

This post isn't to find some alternative label, I'm uninterested, I'm just musing about my experience.

[slumbering-flowers]

> "I'm saying "nonhuman" in-context here, I am aware not all nonhumans are otherkin or therians, my wording is for the sake of simplicity in this specific explanation."

Re-sharing this part, for clarity. I've already stated we're talking about the same thing here (otherkin and therians), not all nonhumans. If you're extremely heated by this, I recommend stepping back before responding, but I've said all I was going to say on this. I'm just clarifying what I've already said since it seems to be misunderstood here.

Fellow alterhumans, therians, otherkin, copinglink, otherhearted, supporters, and more.

Spread this around, not as a copypasta, but when you see a post with misinformation, inform them with this

You !-can't-! be a therian\otherkin\fictionkin\objectkin by:

Choice

Quads

Gear

Connection

Past life

Liking

«—★--★—»

-feralisnthuman-

[slumbering-flowers]

You seem to be misunderstanding, and also misconstrued "I've had a lot more time to do research and learn things" into ageism. Somehow. You can't do research longer than you've been old enough to read, that's not me being cheeky, I'm stating. I want you to continue doing research and learn some things, if I didn't then I wouldn't be talking to you at all.

There's a difference between "It's not only about this" and "It's not this whatsoever". I'm saying "nonhuman" in-context here, I am aware not all nonhumans are otherkin or therians, my wording is for the sake of simplicity in this specific explanation.

Nonhumanity isn't only about quads, that is true, no one here is arguing about this. But they are a common way of expressing oneself.

Nonhumanity isn't only about past lives, that is true, no one here is arguing about this. But it is one of the most common explanations you'll find if you ask a large group of nonhumans.

Nonhumanity isn't only about connection, that is true, no one here is arguing about this. But like I said before, someone can feel a deep enough connection to [thing] to consider themselves that on an intrinsic level. Feeling a deep connection and not identifying as the thing is hearted/kith/synpath, but someone can identify as the thing because they have that connection.

Nonhumanity isn't only about disability, that is true, no one here is arguing about this. But someone can attribute their disability as one of the reasons they identify as they do.

Nonhumanity isn't only always a choice, that is true, no one here is arguing about this. But someone can identify as nonhuman because they want to, it doesn't have to be something you have no say in. Some are nonhuman because they are simply happier that way than they are identifying as human, and that is fine. That doesn't disqualify them from being otherkin or therian, nor does it inherently make their identity "less serious". Someone being a bird therian because they have a deep connection with birds and considers themselves one of them because of it isn't a taboo concept. Neither is being a bird therian because being a bird makes someone happy. Nonhumanity isn't all dysphoria, euphoria can be just as important.

"Having a nonhuman mind" doesn't exist in a vacuum. There are several reasons why someone might identify the way that they do, it makes no sense to treat it like a plant with no roots.

Fellow alterhumans, therians, otherkin, copinglink, otherhearted, supporters, and more.

Spread this around, not as a copypasta, but when you see a post with misinformation, inform them with this

You !-can't-! be a therian\otherkin\fictionkin\objectkin by:

Choice

Quads

Gear

Connection

Past life

Liking

«—★--★—»

-feralisnthuman-

[slumbering-flowers]

I can read just fine. I've been around for a long time, and while no one is an expert I certainly know enough to know you're wrong here. The idea that is must be involuntary is a very pervasive myth. I'm not saying it is the same as what kinnies claim it is, it's definitely not, but not everyone who is otherkin or therian was that way from birth due to spiritual or psychological reasons. Someone can believe deeply that they want to be, and that is enough to make it so. "I feel like I should be a [nonhuman thing] and I really want to be, but I don't have a nonhuman soul or past life, or think this because of a disorder, so I guess it's impossible" is...not how things work. Whatsoever. Even for connection, you can feel a deep enough connection with something to consider yourself also that thing.

I've been in the nonhuman communities longer than you've been alive, perhaps read and be open to the possibility of learning before becoming confrontational. You can't correct anyone on anything if you're not open to teaching moments.

Fellow alterhumans, therians, otherkin, copinglink, otherhearted, supporters, and more.

Spread this around, not as a copypasta, but when you see a post with misinformation, inform them with this

You !-can't-! be a therian\otherkin\fictionkin\objectkin by:

Choice

Quads

Gear

Connection

Past life

Liking

«—★--★—»

-feralisnthuman-

[slumbering-flowers]

...What is this on about? You can't correct misinformation with more misinformation.

Just doing quads and wearing masks doesn't mean one identifies as nonhuman, sure, but it is a way of expression. Just liking a thing doesn't necessarily mean one is nonhuman either, not on its own, but the remaining:

- connection

- past life

- choice (yes, you can be nonhuman because you want to be nonhuman)

Are very common reasons why someone can be nonhuman. Some are born that way, but by no means all. I'm not sure where you learned this

Fellow alterhumans, therians, otherkin, copinglink, otherhearted, supporters, and more.

Spread this around, not as a copypasta, but when you see a post with misinformation, inform them with this

You !-can't-! be a therian\otherkin\fictionkin\objectkin by:

Choice

Quads

Gear

Connection

Past life

Liking

«—★--★—»

-feralisnthuman-

[slumbering-flowers]

Yes

random question but do any other physical therians/nonhumans dislike the term holothere being used on you

[slumbering-flowers]

I'm not a therian, but I am physically nonhuman, so this might answer some of your questions. I'm currently part of a system, and within the headspace I'm fully a dragon. I don't live life through the human body of the host, so identifying as human in any way makes little sense for me. I'm open to conversation about it, if you'd like

Can somecritter actually explain Physical therians to me? I have a general idea, but I want like reposts / replies / inbox messages, anything really, with YOUR specific experiences and I want in depth conversation about it please and thank you! It would help alot and I love hearing about everyones identities!

[slumbering-flowers]

Our host wrote something about this some time ago, including some historical context on the debate: LINK

To add my own thoughts, I don't find these that equivalent. Nonhuman isn't synonymous with alterhuman, neither is otherkin and alterhuman, I agree with all of that. But the line between (other/coping)link and otherkin is much more blurry. There's definitely a benefit to having own spaces for each due to spaces for linkers maybe having some focus on how to cultivate their identity, but the I feel like the idea that there is some stark difference has been more confusing than not. The community already has a problem where members try to pigeonhole themselves into specfic labels way too often, with "am I otherkin or otherlink? I can't tell?" being a common question, and the answer usually given doesn't help things. The usual answer is "well, is it voluntary? If not, that's otherkin", which isn't entirely true. In reality it's a case of "a square is a rectangle, not all rectangles are squares".

If you identify as nonhuman then you can call yourself otherkin, regardless of why, but pushing that the identity must originate in a certain way in order for that to count only leads to people feeling lost if they can't neatly do this. What "voluntary" or "involuntary" even means varies depending on who you ask, making a hard distinction even less practical. The proper answer would be "whichever you feel more comfortable in".

To give another example, here's a similar situation: therian vs otherkin. The push for distinction where it didn't exist only led to a myth that excluded several therians from their own community (that myth being "therians are earth animals only). The truth is that the two labels are incredibly similar. They have their own communities and histories and shouldn't be interchangeable, yes, but that's what makes them different, not necessarily the identities included. Otherlink/copinglink having a specific focus is what makes it different from otherkin, and shouldn't be used interchangeably, but in practice a linker can easily call themselves otherkin instead with zero issues.

That was a long ramble, and I apologize if your only point was "they're not interchangeable", because that I 100% agree with. I just wanted to put more thoughts in because unfortunately the community has a habit of building walls where they don't exist, and I wanted to cover my bases if that was the case here.

I realized that people love to shove random identities under the otherkin umbrella which is probably why we get into arguments over voluntary identity vs. involuntary. It's bad enough people think alterhuman and otherkin are interchangeable, or nonhuman and alterhuman, but now people are calling otherlink/copinglink otherkin identities. No wonder kids are confused.

[slumbering-flowers]

Just removing "alterhuman" from the title would fix it tbh, since it's an Otherkin Day post

On this Otherkin Day, please remember the non-therian identities within otherkin / alterhuman 🖤

☆ Computerkin

☆ Objectkin

☆ Conceptkin

☆ Fictionkin

☆ Supernatural Entities

☆ Divinekins / Demonkins

☆ Copinglink

☆ Polykins

☆ Fictionflickers

☆ OCkins

☆ And all the others 🖤

Please include us as much as you can, and help us out. We are a community that is together because of our one shared experience; alterhumanity. Please keep us together!

[slumbering-flowers]

They wouldn't, no, with the exception of fictionkin, but even then fictionkin have sprouted a specific space as well. These are all seperate communities that often meet with each other (hence the coining of alterhuman). Even therian isn't under otherkin, they cover similar ground but it's in good practice to not use them interchangeably in order to respect the different histories both communities have.

On this Otherkin Day, please remember the non-therian identities within otherkin / alterhuman 🖤

☆ Computerkin

☆ Objectkin

☆ Conceptkin

☆ Fictionkin

☆ Supernatural Entities

☆ Divinekins / Demonkins

☆ Copinglink

☆ Polykins

☆ Fictionflickers

☆ OCkins

☆ And all the others 🖤

Please include us as much as you can, and help us out. We are a community that is together because of our one shared experience; alterhumanity. Please keep us together!