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You put it into words praise your name. I hate seeing the hate without thought behind the hate- what made her the way she is

Susan Grimshaw

Here we go:

Among the women in the game, Miss Grimshaw is probably the most widely and unanimously hated. And I get it. There are moments where I hate her, too! Her yelling at Tilly? Smacking Karen? Oooooooh boy. The one camp interaction where she’s trying to pressure Abigail to do sex work again? Yeah, she can be downright awful.

Let's get into it, though. Grimshaw isn't just some mean old lady.

Let's start with what Grimshaw does or who she is meant to be within the camp structure. She is the one who holds charge over the camp itself. Like a wife back then, she has control over the "home." She cleans, she keeps those under the surface mechanisms going, and she assigns chores. She is, for lack of any better word, the matron of the gang.

Grimshaw is in charge of the girls, mostly. This means that everything they do is because Grimshaw has told them to do that. When they do something outside of it, like taking a break or reading or chatting with each other, she believes what she has demanded they do is not getting done. Keeping things clean seems very important, at least to her. How does she react when Arthur is filthy in camp? She demands he bathes because he might get them all sick. Half of these men aren't bathing as much as they should (I guarantee that), so she has to at least keep up with what they're wearing, and where they're sleeping or eating. Otherwise, men like Uncle might ACTUALLY get them sick. To her, it's health issue when these girls slack off, or whatever she sees as laziness.

In that regard, she is also semi-in charge of taking care of the sick and injured. Abigail seems to have some knowledge. After all, she's the one who said Davey was dying. However, Grimshaw is the one that Dutch always calls for. I believe this is because she is similar to Abigail. She picked up on some first aid/basic nursing over time, and that has led to her being the "nurse" in the camp. I would even go as far as saying Grimshaw is the one who taught Abigail, likely after Jack was born just in case (because babies could definitely die back then).

So, WOW, Miss Grimshaw has a lot on her plate. She is abusive to the girls, though! So why? Well, one girl that she never seems to show an ounce of kindness for is Mary-Beth. I mean, in Chapter 6, when Tilly is given this encouraging speech about how she'll do fine in life, Grimshaw is yelling at Mary-Beth about how she knows what Mary-Beth thinks of her. So why? Well, it’s pretty simple. I kind of mentioned it already in a way. Grimshaw was the woman Dutch first took on as a lover. It's assumed she was dropped when Annabelle came along and remained in the camp for some reason. Yet Dutch gave her control of the camp like he would a wife to a home, keeping her strangely close. In chapter 3, they dance together! I don't know if Grimshaw still has feelings for Dutch, I think she does, but I do know that they aren't awkward exes. When she sees girls like Mary-Beth taking Dutch’s eye, what do you think she thinks? She might worry in a way, try to chase them off so they don't wind up like her. Mostly, though? She gets insecure. She's the old maid. She's the crone who no one would ever love.

Grimshaw is a woman of the time. Her value to society has vanished. AKA, she can no longer get married (the marriage market does not suit an older woman in the 1800s), and she has no children to take care of her. She repeatedly says that she's disappointed in the girls, and they aren't ready for the world. She's trying to get them ready! The world will not be as kind as Dutch, and she has to make sure these girls (who, yes, have survived it before) can survive. She isn’t hard on (all) them because she’s a jealous old woman. She's "hard" on them because she thinks she must be.

Everything Grimshaw does is a reflection of where she thinks she screwed up. Womanhood in the 1800s wasn't easy, nor was it pretty. Grimshaw is well aware of all of that, and she can't sugarcoat the world for these young women. She has to prepare them for it and get them to a point where they won't have to live like she did. You can't be lazy, you can't rely on everyone else to feed and clothe you, and you can't get swept up into some man's nonsense. She is absolutely abusive to them and cruel when she could be kinder, but it's what she thinks she must do. The newest generation of young women will never survive on their own if they can't survive being mistreated by her. It isn’t excusable, but it is why she is the way she is.

Susan's death reflects her position in the gang. She dies loudly, in pain, slowly, but with no one there to comfort her. She was alone, and maybe she purposefully made it so she would be.

Grimshaw isn't a likable character, but she isn't a character I hate. She's a character I feel for. When push comes to shove, she acts based on what she believes is right. She saves Tilly, she stands with Arthur, and yes, she does awful things too. It comes with the game that everyone's not perfect. No one is full good or full bad, and that's okay.

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same couple, different font

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They were ✌️🤞 fr I love picturing them playing cards, running the camp together, maybe even saving Dutch and Hosea from the law from time to time

It’s after midnight and I have a thought no one can take away from me.

Susan and Bessie were thick as thieves, two peas in a pod, besties you may say.

When Bessie died Susan became more mean. When she sees the girls talking together it makes her jealous of what she lost. And miss her partner in crime

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Abigail is for the girls who wanted better

Mary-Beth is for the girls who needed an escape

Tilly is for the girls who had to become sweet

Molly is for the girls who felt ignored

Sadie is for the girls who wanted revenge

Susan is for the girls who felt they had to be independent or prove themselves

Karen is for the girls who’s struggles were overlooked

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It’s after midnight and I have a thought no one can take away from me.

Susan and Bessie were thick as thieves, two peas in a pod, besties you may say.

When Bessie died Susan became more mean. When she sees the girls talking together it makes her jealous of what she lost. And miss her partner in crime

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I made an AU of sorts do people want to read it? Instead of John confronting Dutch on the cliffs edge it’s Susan

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Sad Hosea and Bessie fic if y’all want it

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CONTAINS SPOILERS

Just finished my second playthrough and I have to say: I hate Dutch more than Micah. Don’t get me wrong Micah is scum, but Dutch knew (mostly) everybody in the gang for over a year. Sometimes over a DECADE- and he still turns his back on them. All the kids he and Hosea raised, didn’t matter, the ‘last’ score mattered. The last robbery mattered. Not the orphans or runaways he raised, taught and loved.

Micah is a superficial type. You know he’s evil. When you first meet him, you know he’s bad. But I liked Dutch in definitely the first 3 chapters, I was still liking him in 4. Guarma was iffy. Beaver Hollow is where it all goes downhill. I noticed the decline since chapter 3, but I feel it really steepened in 4 and 6 (Guarma didn’t happen). But back to Micah- you know he’s evil. The way he talks, the way he acts, his beliefs, you just KNOW that this guy isn’t who you’d want to come to your rescue (RIP SADIE). Micah did what he had to do to survive. He never had loyalty in mind, he has his own being in mind.

The Van Der Linde’s whole gang/family was so BASED on loyalty that people killed and died for the gang. Miss Grimshaw mentions killing another traitor. Molly (mistakenly assumed as a traitor) is killed because that’s how strongly they value loyalty. Loyalty (mostly to Dutch) was how the whole gang was founded.

Hosea had the same loyalty, but he actually cared about the people. I think Dutch only cared about the image. Hosea said that he cared for the people that died following Blackwater- that they mattered to him. He wanted closure. Dutch used their deaths as ammunition for his speeches. As a reason for the gang to keep on going. The only thing that set him apart from the O’Driscolls was the fact he cultivated the image that they were a family and that he might have cared. The O’Driscolls didn’t have the same loyalty to their members. When Kieran was captured they didn’t try to get him back. He said he was as good as dead if he wasn’t with the Van Der Linde’s. Dutch took Kieran in to set himself apart. The loyalty. The image.

Hosea kept Dutch in check. After Hosea died, Dutch couldn’t be kept in check. He didn’t have someone he valued highly who truly cared anymore. Micah took over Hosea’s place as the highly valued peer. Micah’s influence was never for the good of the gang- and that wasn’t a secret. Micah’s influence was for his own gain. But what I can’t get over is once Micah had that influence, Dutch didn’t care about anyone anymore. Especially towards the end. He used Eagle Flies, he left Arthur, left John (TWICE), didn’t care about the women, didn’t care about little Jack. Dutch cared about Tahiti. One last score. Reallllly messing with the Pinkertons. Getting the gang to safety wasn’t a priority. As I mentioned earlier- loyalty to Dutch was how the whole gang was founded- Dutch says something about John and Abigail and that women are poison. At the end, John was more concerned with Abigail and Jack rather than Dutch. He didn’t like that. Dutch didn’t like that John was more loyal to his FAMILY than him. He didn’t like that Arthur was more loyal to John than him. Micah, Bill and Javier didn’t have family available to have that stronger loyalty to. They had Dutch and only Dutch. I’m sure that Dutch also had beef with Hosea and Bessie; especially when they left.

But Dutch turned his back on John and Arthur- his sons. He raised them. When Susan was shot, he didn’t bat an eye. He loved her at some point. All these people he’s known for 20 ish years. Or the newer ones, that again, he either raised or feigned affection. And nothing. Turned his back.

FUCK DUTCH YOU BASTARD I HOPE HELL IS AS NICE AS TAHITI

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These are so accurate and funny as balls

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Guys Red Dead theory 🙀

So in my playthroughs and what I’ve seen on Reddit/Tumbler is that in chapter 2 Dutch is seen dancing with Lovely Molly.

In chapter 2 everything seems well. They’re all lovey dovey.

Chapter 3.

Dutch is seen dancing with Susan. When I saw it I thought it was bittersweet. You saw what Grimshaw and Dutch used to be, and saw that yes, he did still have a sweet spot for her.

I think him dancing with Molly to Susan portrays how he is getting bored of her. And how he won’t be caring(love bombing) in 3,4, (partly) 5, and 6.

I don’t think Dutch would have courted Susan- but it speaks volumes about Van Der Linde. He only uses people until HE is bored. Queue then fighting between him and Molly that I noticed in chapter 3.

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I haven’t played in a bit, but the Springfield Rifle with Express bullets is my absolute favourite. Can eliminate O’Driscolls in one shot anywhere on the body. But I HATE all of the pistols. They just look so ugly 😭😭

What are yall's prefered weapon? Because like, I don't know if it is the same with you guys but I am an avid lover of one and an avid hater of another.

I love my repeaters with high Velocity bullets, but I will forever hate shotguns simply because I can only have two shots before a reload.

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PART 2

RIP RED DEAD CHARACTERS YOU WOULD HAVE LOVED

Dutch- podcasts (making his own) + AITA Reddit stories, Coca Cola, monocles

Hosea- bingo, 70s disco music, swing dancing

Arthur- little toy dinosaur dig kits with the teeny tiny shovels, trampolines, Nanaimo bars

John- remote control toy cars, divorced dad music, Mountain Dew

Lenny- antiques, Epic Rap Battles of History (he would duel Sean and sometimes Karen),

Sean- roblox trolling, bell bottoms, GTA

Strauss- flootie pajamas, ebeneezer Scrooge outfits, cold calling

Trelawney- earl gray tea, crashing weddings, throwing pies into people’s faces

Charles- flower crowns, rock tumblers, surfing

Pearson- papas’s games (pizzeria, freezeria, ect), embroidery, floral scents

Micah- court ordered anger management, Andrew Tate, FailArmy videos

Javier- zyns, woodworking, eyebrow slits

Kieran- Spirit: Stallion of the Cimarron, model trains (him, Sean, Lenny, Arthur, Tilly and Sadie would be absolutely mystified by the set Susan bought him)

Bill- short shorts, petting zoos, animal shelters

Uncle- Leslie Neilson films, heating pads, aligator meat

Reverend- online gambling, Pink Whitney, dap pens

Susan- wine, gold hoops, edibles on a late Friday night (shares with Dutch)

Mary-Beth- choose your own adventure books, Our Souls at Night/The Book Club/And so It Goes, lip lining

Molly- olives, grey’s anatomy, Butterscotch ice cream

Karen- scary movies, WWE, flip flops

Abigail- sparkling water, tiny hand bag sized dogs, face masks

Sadie - butterfly knife, industrial piercing, The Hells Angles,

Tilly- baseball, Star Wars, Volkswagen beetles

Jack- Roblox, Scooby doo movies, tootsie rolls

Bessie- Fleetwood Mac, block parties (she’d host her own), Subway

Annabel- Madonna, waist beads, jelly shoes

Issac- lava lamps, Lego video games, Trelawny

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Omg Hosea’s wedding ring in 1880 is such a good touch I didn’t even notice it at first

1880

1899

1911.

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AHAHAHA just imagine

“Orthur! We need money! I’ve run out of juice.”

“What’re you talkin about?”

“I need more Triple Tahitian Tangy Mango Orthur.”

RIP RED DEAD CHARACTERS YOU WOULD HAVE LOVED

Dutch- disposable fruity flavoured (mango) vapes, Duolingo

Hosea- rollerblading, old VHS movies, The Sound of Music, ear studs, small hoops, and ear cuffs

Arthur- LED strip lights, therapy, The Joy of Painting

John- Ax body spray, deodorant, those little arm floaties little kids wear in the pool

Mary-Beth- Lego flowers, The Notebook, Pinterest

Tilly- Easter egg hunts, making slime, slumber parties

Karen- Tube/crop tops, jean shorts, weightlifting

Sean- make your own mead kits, TikTok, “kiss me in Irish”, SUNSCREEN

Abigail- AirTags (she would put one on little Jack), Roasting marshmallows, Crime shows/courtroom dramas, Man! I Feel like a woman! By Shania Twain

Uncle- recliner chairs, dog sledding, Wheel of Fortune, Crosswords

Susan- Dark nail polish, cats(I’m 100% sure she’d own either a black cat or a tortishell that would sit on her lap/shoulder), dishwashers

Kieran- Creep by Radiohead, Tv shows about veterinarians, friendship bracelets (with Arthur)

Reverend Swanson- Support groups, The Robert Langdon series (especially Inferno, Angels & Demons), communion wine

Javier- Cards Against Humanity, online sheet music, ear gauges

Molly- Champaign toast anything from bath and bodywork’s, naval AND lip piercing, SUNSCREEN

Bill-sexy firefighter calendars, Grindr, Bumbl, all the dating apps, apples dipped in caramel, jolly ranchers

Charles- IMessage games (mini golf and battleship in particular), those long distance ‘thinking of you bracelets’, 90’s sitcoms

Lenny- The Carpenters, cologne to make him seem grown up, head pats

Trelawney- Harry Houdini, 50-60s movies, smoke bombs, dramatic flares

Strauss- a soul, Nigerian Prince scams, telemarketing

Sadie- gyms, self defence classes, the free Britany movement

Micah- staying in the strawberry jail, toothbrush + paste, good posture

Pearson- small businesses, handmade gifts, trying TikTok recipes

EXTRA

Annabelle- Gwen Stefani, sequins, Fast and the Furious

Jack (young)- The Backyardagains, cocomelon, a little toy train

Jack (epilogue)- Monty Python, skateboarding, swimming

Bessie- Bette Midler look a like contests, growing old, brown eyeliner, SUNSCREEN

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Hosea fucks

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Uncle trying to rizz up Grimshaw

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RIP RED DEAD CHARACTERS YOU WOULD HAVE LOVED

Dutch- disposable fruity flavoured (mango) vapes, Duolingo

Hosea- rollerblading, old VHS movies, The Sound of Music, ear studs, small hoops, and ear cuffs

Arthur- LED strip lights, therapy, The Joy of Painting

John- Ax body spray, deodorant, those little arm floaties little kids wear in the pool

Mary-Beth- Lego flowers, The Notebook, Pinterest

Tilly- Easter egg hunts, making slime, slumber parties

Karen- Tube/crop tops, jean shorts, weightlifting

Sean- make your own mead kits, TikTok, “kiss me in Irish”, SUNSCREEN

Abigail- AirTags (she would put one on little Jack), Roasting marshmallows, Crime shows/courtroom dramas, Man! I Feel like a woman! By Shania Twain

Uncle- recliner chairs, dog sledding, Wheel of Fortune, Crosswords

Susan- Dark nail polish, cats(I’m 100% sure she’d own either a black cat or a tortishell that would sit on her lap/shoulder), dishwashers

Kieran- Creep by Radiohead, Tv shows about veterinarians, friendship bracelets (with Arthur)

Reverend Swanson- Support groups, The Robert Langdon series (especially Inferno, Angels & Demons), communion wine

Javier- Cards Against Humanity, online sheet music, ear gauges

Molly- Champaign toast anything from bath and bodywork’s, naval AND lip piercing, SUNSCREEN

Bill-sexy firefighter calendars, Grindr, Bumbl, all the dating apps, apples dipped in caramel, jolly ranchers

Charles- IMessage games (mini golf and battleship in particular), those long distance ‘thinking of you bracelets’, 90’s sitcoms

Lenny- The Carpenters, cologne to make him seem grown up, head pats

Trelawney- Harry Houdini, 50-60s movies, smoke bombs, dramatic flares

Strauss- a soul, Nigerian Prince scams, telemarketing

Sadie- gyms, self defence classes, the free Britany movement

Micah- staying in the strawberry jail, toothbrush + paste, good posture

Pearson- small businesses, handmade gifts, trying TikTok recipes

EXTRA

Annabelle- Gwen Stefani, sequins, Fast and the Furious

Jack (young)- The Backyardagains, cocomelon, a little toy train

Jack (epilogue)- Monty Python, skateboarding, swimming

Bessie- Bette Midler look a like contests, growing old, brown eyeliner, SUNSCREEN