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springbloggy · 8 days

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Mini Deltarune theories I have that are not quite big enough for a true post, but interesting to note. In order of most confident to least.

Ralsei is luring the lightners to the Dark World in order to trap them

In chapter 2, Ralsei creates rooms for Kris and Susie that "they can go to no matter what is happening outside". Unlike Queen's rooms, which are guesses based on search results, Kris and Susie's rooms are accurate to an unsettling degree. Not only is Kris' room identical to their light world counterpart, but it also has all of Asriel's trophies on their side of the room with Asriel's side gone, a reflection of their potential secret desire to no longer be under Asriel's shadow. Similarly, Susie's excitement on even having a room suggests that Ralsei could know what Susie's light world home life is like or lack thereof if she's homeless.

By creating these rooms, Ralsei is fulfilling the lightners secret desires and judging on his phrasing, wants them to go there in order to avoid whatever is happening "outside" the dark world. By doing so, he is effectively strengthening their desire to stay in the dark world so they can't escape.

Chapter 3 isn't going to be Undyne or Napstablook, it's Asgore

Chapter 3 taking place in Kris' home with the fountain being created by Kris suggests to me that the world may mostly involve whatever the Dreemur family drama entailed, which would include Asgore who was the former chief of police. Not only that, but the combination of Toriel having troubles calling the police and the station being closed in a preview for chapter 4 suggests to me that Mayor Holiday could have closed the station during the night of chapter 3 after they failed to catch the mysterious criminal wrecking Hometown, leaving Asgore as the only character left who might want to resume his policeman duties when Toriel's call is made. It is also more fitting for Toriel to kill Asgore in the hypothetical chance the Snowgrave route continues with her as she already dislikes Asgore and possibly blames him for Dess' disappearance. Speaking of...

Asgore really was involved

There's a lot of weird forshadowing on an "evil Santa". Lancer believes that "ho ho ho", a laugh associated with the mystical Christmas gift bearer, being an evil laugh. Noelle is also scared of Santa and it's revealed in Undertale that Asgore dressed up as Santa to give gifts to the monsters. All of this seems setup to me that Asgore really was somehow involved in letting Dess disappear, something that may be revealed during Chapter 3's Snowgrave route.

Dess is ruder than she appears

This is a more playing by expectations theory, however there's certain lines and implications that become interesting once looked under the lens of this theory.

It's revealed that Dess once beat Kris with a wiffle ball bat for scaring Noelle by telling her that ICE-E "eats kids". This puts a precedent that Dess has at least somewhat violent impulses in order to protect her sister, even in situations that don't need it. It's also a bit odd that unlike Asriel, no one in the hometown mentions Dess after her disappearance except for Noelle. Even Berdly, Noelle's best friend, doesn't bring her up. It could be that the hometowners may not want to hurt Noelle by reminding her of the disappearance, however since she's so open about talking about Dess to even new kid Susie it may be another reason why the hometown doesn't mention her. It's possible that the simularities to Dess and Susie (both are horror loving, somewhat violent, tomboys) are deliberate and are setting up the reveal that Dess is/was actually a bully and a future scene with Noelle may parallel the scene in Undertale where Asriel reminisces that Chara wasn't that good of a person.

Gaster blasters are named after Gaster, but not created by him

If you spare Papyrus in Undertale after an aborted Genocide run, he will say this.

The most common theory is that the "Special Attack" would be a Gaster Blaster. What's interesting to me is the phrasing "my Special Attack", which suggests that Papyrus owns this attack and it could have been unique to him before Sans or the annoying dog stole it. If Gaster Blasters are really his unique attack, it could mean that Papyrus created the Blasters and named them after Gaster, rather than the fandom interpretation that Gaster made the Blasters then gave them away.

There might not be a singular "Knight" because anyone can dream

At the end of each chapter, the characters ask if the dark world adventure they had was some sort of dream. Since anyone can fall asleep and dream, it's possible the game is setting up that trying to seal the fountains is impossible because anyone can dream and thus become their own "knight".

#deltarune #deltarune theory #deltarune analysis #deltarune speculation #utdr #utdr theory #utdr analysis #utdr speculation #undertale #undertale theory #undertale analysis #undertale speculation #deltarune meta #utdr meta #undertale meta

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springbloggy · 13 days

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Inception theory

I recently rewatched the movie Inception and noticed a lot of its rules and events shockingly fit with the events seen across Deltarune so far. I am not saying the game is going to be a 1:1 recreation of the movie, but I figured to break down some of the movie's themes and plot points with Deltarune to create a hopefully interesting theory. This will take some elements from @jarujaruj's discussion on meta narratives ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gDOfNzI1RI ) as well as Auroa's FUN theory ( https://old.reddit.com/r/Deltarune/comments/iizlvc/megapost_the_fun_theory_solving_gasters_mysteries/ ) Spoilers for Inception below. TW for suicide.

In the movie Inception, a group of people devise a plan to plant an idea in the mind of the future CEO of a rival company, causing him to dissolve his company. In order to do this, they create a complex plan with a lot of rules. For the sake of clarity, I am going to go through the plan and the rules in order to make this theory clearer to follow. However, keep in mind Inception is a movie that largely follows interpretation. My breakdown is mostly surface level observation, but there's still a degree of interpretation here. Also I will provide a glossary below as a shorthand for some of the characters I will mention during this theory.

Glossary

Red - the red soul seen in the goner/vessel creation sequence

Mal - the real world wife of Cobb in Inception

Sub-Mal - Cobb's subconscious recreation of Mal

First Steps - Connection

The first step of the plan is to get the target to fall asleep; once he is asleep, the main character, Cobb, and his associates will be able to enter his dream with drugs that are administered through a machine.

The setup of entering a dream through a mechanical connection is similar to the opening scene of Deltarune. At the beginning of Deltarune, Gaster creates a "connection" for Red to enter the world of Deltarune.

This "vessel" is then used to enter the world of Deltarune, but is forcibly taken away by an unknown second party. In the "meta-narrative" side of things, the player enters the game of Deltarune, but in the narrative, Red enters an alternate universe, timeline, or world from wherever they originally came from. Much like the characters in Inception entering a dream, Red must enter Deltarune through some sort of device/vessel for whatever reason. But why is Gaster doing this? We may have an answer in Undertale.

Very little is known about Gaster in Undertale, but we can learn a little about him through his various Goner followers and through entry 17.

Entry 17 states:

ENTRY NUMBER SEVENTEEN DARK DARKER YET DARKER THE DARKNESS KEEPS GROWING THE SHADOWS CUTTING DEEPER PHOTON READINGS NEGATIVE THIS NEXT EXPERIMENT SEEMS VERY VERY INTERESTING ... WHAT DO YOU TWO THINK

Though vague, it implies that whatever Gaster was working on involved darkness in some way, the same power that creates the Dark Worlds in Deltarune. Some further insight into what his creation entailed can be found through his followers.

It makes sense why ASGORE took so long to hire a new Royal Scientist. After all, the old one... Dr. Gaster. What an act to follow! They say he created the CORE. However, his life... Was cut short. One day, he fell into his creation, and... Will Alphys end up the same way? ================================================== Alphys might work faster. But the old Royal Scientist, Doctor W.D. Gaster? One day, he vanished without a trace. They say he shattered across time and space. Ha ha... How can I say so without fear? I'm holding a piece of him right here ================================================== I understand why ASGORE waited so long to hire a new Royal Scientist. The previous one... Dr. Gaster. His brilliance was irreplaceable. However, his life... Was cut short. One day, his experiments went wrong, and... Well, I needn't gossip. After all, it's rude to talk about someone who's listening.

Now we have some more insight into Gaster's life. We now know that he created the CORE, "fell into his creation" which "cut his life short" and caused him to be "shattered through time and space". He was then replaced by Alphys long after.

Using these details and details from the movie Inception, I will now create a basis for what might have happened to Gaster, what his experiment might have been, and even the secret the super-bosses know.

Dreams and Universes

At the end of each chapter, each of the lightners that enter with Kris express disbelief of their adventures, asking if their adventures were dreams.

When entering a dark world, the characters enter a dream-like state in the light world, yet have an adventure that seems real to them. This matches up with Inception's portrayal of shared dreams, or dreams-within-dreams. While in a dream, the dreamer has no idea they are dreaming, they believe the world they are in is real.

ARIADNE But are you trying to fool him that the dream is actually real life?

COBB (nods) While we're in there, We don't want him to realize he's dreaming.

ARIADNE How could I ever get enough detail to Convince him that it's real?

COBB Our dreams reel real while we're in them. It's only when we wake up we realize things were strange. Ariadne gestures around them ARIADNE But all the textures of real life- the stone, the fabric. cars... people... your mind can't create all this.

COBB It does. Every time you dream. Let me ask you a question∶ You never remember the beginning of your dreams, do you? You just turn up in the middle of what's going on.

Once the dreamer is aware that they are dreaming in a basic shared dream, the world around them is destroyed in order to awaken the dreamer. The importance of not destroying the illusion then takes on an additional layer of danger, as the traveler must now escape deadly scenarios within the dream in order to keep it going.

A similar depiction of the importance of not breaking dreams can be found at the beginning of Deltarune Chapter 2. In it, Lancer turns to stone because he can't fit into the environment of the Cyber World.

So does that mean the Dark Worlds are literal dreams? Well, no, because there are hints that they are real, like Kris creating one at the end of chapter 2. The biggest clue, however, is in Entry 17: if Gaster is working on the same darkness that powers the Dark Fountain, then that means that the Dark Worlds do exist somehow. But how? Well, let me introduce you to Limbo. In Inception, Limbo is a realm that appears when a person goes deeper into a multi-layered dream than intended, or dies in a multi-layered dream; once in Limbo, a person forgets that they are dreaming and accepts Limbo as their reality. Only by dying in a dream can one escape Limbo.

The description of limbo and multilayered dreams fits Gaster's story of being shattered across time and space. Perhaps whatever Gaster was working on was meant to be a portal to another world/universe/timeline. This could be supported by some of the genocide dialogue from Sans.

our reports showed a massive anomaly in the timespace continuum. timelines jumping left and right, stopping and starting… until suddenly, everything ends.

Instead of going to one alternate universe/world/timeline, Gaster's machine broke down and he went through all the universes/worlds/timelines at once, losing himself spiritually in the process, as one would go through in Limbo. Limbo then introduces the next part of this theory, what else was Gaster working on?

Gaster's secret experiment - AKA the dangers of recreation

From what the followers tell us, Gaster was replaced by Alphys. Alphys' main experiment shown in the Secret Lab is reviving monsters that have fallen down with a substance called Determination.

I've done it. Using the blueprints, I've extracted it from the human SOULs. I believe this is what gives their SOULs the strength to persist after death. The will to keep living… The resolve to change fate. Let's call this power… "Determination." ASGORE asked everyone outside the city for monsters that had "fallen down." Their bodies came in today. They're still comatose… And soon, they'll all turn into dust. But what happens if I inject "determination" into them? If their SOULS persist after they perish, then… Freedom might be closer than we all thought.

After injecting the monsters with determination, Alphys is able to revive the monsters for a short time.

Everyone that had fallen down... ... has woken up. They're all walking around and talking like nothing is wrong. I thought they were goners...?

But the bodies cannot handle the determination, and they fuse together to become the Amalgamates. What is interesting about Alphys' experiments in the context of Deltarune is that Alphys refers to the flower that becomes Flowey as a vessel, the same phrase used by Gaster in the vessel creation sequence at the beginning of Deltarune. She also refers to the various fallen monsters as goners, which is similar to the goners that infamously "follow" Gaster. All of this implies that Goners are dead monster souls in monster-like vessels, but unlike Alphys' experiment, the Goners aren't gooey amalgams; their original forms are still intact. The vessel sequence at the beginning of Deltarune may provide the answer to why the Goner forms are still the same; instead of being injected with Determination, Red is offered various body parts to create a vessel. It seems that Gaster's method of resurrecting souls is more mechanical than Alphys' organic solution. However, there's a catch, all of the Goners look grey and sickly in comparison to their living equivalents, this can be seen in action with the clamgirl Goner.

I think the closest equivalent to the Goners in Inception are what the movie calls "projections", specifically sub-Mal. In Inception, Cobb and his wife Mal both entered Limbo and recreated buildings from their lives. In doing so, Mal forgot that she was dreaming and accepted Limbo as reality. In order to escape Limbo, Cobb had to convince Mal that her "reality" wasn't real, but once she awakens, the idea that her reality is false never leaves her, and she kills herself in the real world in an attempt to wake up from her perceived dream. This backstory is similar to that of the superbosses, specifically what Seam tells about Jevil.

Like Mal, Jevil is told something that affects his perception of reality, he begins to see his life as a game, something that isn't real and therefore acts drastically different than the person he used to be before.

The truth the superbosses could know is that they can't escape the dark world and be freed because it is another universe/timeline/world than the Light World. Like the dreams in Inception, one must "wake up" to escape, which ultimately involves death. Alternatively, the truth that superbosses know is that the darkners don't actually exist. Inception explains that projections are people created by the subconscious that cease to exist once the dreamer awakens. Like Lancer turning to stone and the super-bosses turning to items, once the projection is no longer needed, it essentially disappears. The most notable projection seen in Inception, however, is the aforementioned Sub-Mal.

After his wife's death, Cobb learns not to recreate memories, however he continues to dream about moments he regrets in order to try and fix them.

ARIADNE But these aren't just dreams, are they? They're memories. You said never to use memories. COBB And I shouldn't. ARIADNE You're keeping her alive. COBB No. ARIADNE You can't let her go. COBB No. These are moments I regret. Moments I turned into dreams so I could change them.

This causes a subconscious projection of Mal to chase down Cobb and sabotage his dream missions in order to fulfill his greatest regret: not staying and growing old with her. However, sub-Mal is a pale imitation of the real thing.

COBB I can't stay here to be with her because she's not real. Mal looks at Cobb, furious. MAL Not real? I'm the only thing you do believe in anymore. Here-doesn't this feel real, Dom? COBB I wish you were. But I couldn't make you real. I'm not capable of imagining you in all your complexity and… perfection. As you really were. You're the best I can do. And you're not real.

I think, like Sub-Mal, the Goners are (sort of literally) pale imitations of the monsters and a human they originally were in life. Once their SOUL merges with the vessel, they become shells of their former selves, like what happened to Asriel when he became Flowey. This is probably why Gaster's vessel creation in Deltarune was overthrown by the mysterious Detractor, who tells Gaster and Red that they can't choose who they are in this world. The Detractor knows the truth about the Goners and, for whatever reason, doesn't want that fate for Red.

All of this then sheds a terrifying light on a certain character.

Let's talk about Ralsei

Ralsei is really, really odd. There's a lot that suggests he is hiding details from the FUN gang, to the point where comprehensive lists have been made about it (https://old.reddit.com/r/Deltarune/comments/up2cum/a_coherent_list_of_all_the_times_ralsei_has_acted/). The details from Inception only make Ralsei more suspicious. Like Cobb, Ralsei recreates real locations in a place where they shouldn't be.

Like sub-Mal, he is superficially similar to a real world person, that being Asriel, well, mostly. Because there's one small detail that people tend to overlook and that is Kris' red horned headband.

The meta-narrative could be that Ralsei is a representation of the player's memories of Asriel and Undertale, but the narrative is that Ralsei is Kris' childhood memories of their brother and how they perceive themselves.

Alternatively, under Jaru's controversial Ralsei theory, Ralsei is a dark world representation of Kris' guilt over Asriel's death. In Inception, Cobb feels guilty over Mal's death because the reason she killed herself is tied to himself telling her that her perceived reality is false. Sub-Mal then reflects his guilt in his dreams by acting violently to fulfill his desire to stay with her and make things right. Kris, like Cobb, could have either directly or indirectly created Ralsei as a personification of their guilt for killing Asriel or being inadvertently involved in his death, as was the case with Cobb and Mal. Ralsei would then be a way for Kris to make things right, but much like Sub-Mal is only a "shade" of the original person, Ralsei is not quite like Asriel. This uncanny nature of not quite being Asriel is ultimately what makes Kris uncomfortable around Ralsei. I am not the biggest fan of the dead Asriel theory, but this connection is interesting enough to consider.

Whether Ralsei represents childhood memories or a reflection of Kris' guilt over Asriel's death, this does not mean that Ralsei is completely innocent. In Inception, Sub-Mal uses the Limbo recreation of her and Cobb's penthouse to try to convince him to stay with her. This casts suspicion on Ralsei's recreation of Kris' room, as well as the other Dark World rooms seen in Chapter 2. Is he doing it out of kindness to make the Lighters comfortable, or is he trying to lure them into the Dark World to stay there forever? If he is trying to lure all the darkners and lightners to stay in one place, why? Does he have morally good reasons for doing this, despite how terrible the situation is? Sadly, I feel like all of these questions are big mysteries that the game is still working on, but I have a feeling that the answer may be very much related to Ralsei's goal of fulfilling the prophecy by any means necessary.

So what can be pulled from all this? Like the movie Inception, Deltarune deals with nested realities, instead of dreams it is universes, worlds, or timelines. The deeper the lightners go into the dark world, the more difficult it becomes for them to perceive reality and fiction.

As in Inception, breaking the rules of the dream causes the dream to break, such as the darkners turning to stone. Also like Inception, there's a sneaky implication of the dangers of recreating reality through dreams with the characters of Gaster, who creates Goners who are shells of their former selves, and Ralsei, who is suspicious and recreates home life in the dark world. Like Inception, knowing the truth of the dream, that the dream world isn't real and the only way out is death, breaks those who learn the truth and turns them into more reckless people.

At the end of Inception, Cobb wakes up on a plane and goes home to see his children again. His totem, an object meant to represent reality, is a top. His top keeps spinning, which is a sign that he is still dreaming, but it wobbles a bit, and the camera never shows if it keeps spinning or if it falls, which leads to the interpretation of whether he is still asleep or not. But that doesn't matter to him, what matters is that he can see his children again, as he wanted to. This reflects Deltarune's "choices don't matter" moniker, it doesn't matter if Cobb is still asleep or not, because he gets his happy ending.

This line of logic could allude to the theory that a true happy ending is not supposed to be possible in Deltarune, which is reflected in an infamous tweet reply from Toby Fox.

#deltarune #deltarune theory #deltarune meta #deltarune analysis #deltarune speculation #utdr theory #utdr analysis #utdr meta #utdr speculation #utdr #undertale #undertale theory #undertale meta #undertale analysis #undertale speculation #inception #long post #springy thoughts #tw suicide

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