sweetteaanddragons

[sweetteaanddragons]

Dagor Bragollach Poll

I was recently rereading the passage about the Dagor Bragollach. It describes Fingolfin as being "sundered from his kinsmen by a sea of foes." Later, it describes the news of the Noldor's overall losses reaching the region, and Fingolfin's despair and decision to ride out against Morgoth alone. Of this decision, it is said that "and none might restrain him."

[sweetteaanddragons]

Dagor Bragollach Poll: Two

Very much related to my previous post: What about Fingon?

[sweetteaanddragons]

Dagor Bragollach Poll: Two

Very much related to my previous post: What about Fingon?

[sweetteaanddragons]

Dagor Bragollach Poll

I was recently rereading the passage about the Dagor Bragollach. It describes Fingolfin as being "sundered from his kinsmen by a sea of foes." Later, it describes the news of the Noldor's overall losses reaching the region, and Fingolfin's despair and decision to ride out against Morgoth alone. Of this decision, it is said that "and none might restrain him."

[sweetteaanddragons]

Athelas: I just want someone to take me out. Camellia: Like on a date, or with poison? Athelas, immediately charmed: Surprise me.

[sweetteaanddragons]

could you perhaps draw Nerdanel and Feanor, please?

dumb tiny babies trying to ask each other out

[sweetteaanddragons]

An excellent list!

Thinking about another notable incidence of ruthlessness/lack thereof in Epic: I think all of the Between characters absolutely would kill Polyphemus (I think Pet would agree with Odysseus's choice not to, given his circumstances, but I don't think she would feel personally able to nonlethally take down a cyclops.) BUT. I think it is an interesting contrast if instead of putting them in Odysseus's place here, we put them in Athena's.

If someone they were mentoring spared the cyclops, how would they react?

Pet: Approves!

The others wouldn't . . . but none of them would pull Athena's trick of giving up on the mentee either. They'd either accept the decision (with commentary), or they'd finish off the cyclops themselves, but they're not going to leave over it.

A terrible list to consider: reactions to Zeus's ultimatum.

Ranking City Between characters on the Epic scale of ruthlessness, aka "would they throw a baby off a wall to save what matters most to them"

Zero: ...I hope not! I don't think so honestly? not a BABY. but if he believed it was a future threat to Pet he'd think real hard about it first. And probably be mad at himself afterward either way. JinYeong: Again I don't think so. Certainly by the time he's got himself together enough to be capable of devotion to others, he also has enough humanity to say "infanticide is bad." (And even gods can't make him do things he doesn't like) Athelas: ha. hahaha. haha. yeah Pet: NO. That's a BABY. What is WRONG with you people. Give her that baby RIGHT NOW and get OFF THAT WALL

[sweetteaanddragons]

I still have Epic: The Musical on the brain, so I've been having fun chewing on the two medias and their very, very different approaches to ruthlessness.

thinking about the fact that, even though Pet's psychos are very much "the world is cruel, look out for yourself, don't be nice to other people and definitely don't expect them/us to be nice to you" in everything they say to her... they never push their way of doing things as good, just necessary. They certainly never try to get her to like it. And there's a few directions to take this.

I think it's significant that, even without meaning her harm or trying to do anything but Teach Her To Survive, they still could have made her a worse person if she didn't push back and cling to her morals. And it's hard! Because they never ask her to hurt anyone, or to be actively cruel - just to care less. to look away. to not push for other people's good, when she could. But even that is, actually, morally harmful, even though they're trying to protect her.

That said, it is important that all their "this is the way the world is" lessons are trying to keep her alive - or, at worst, just to convince her to not get in the way. Part of why she starts trusting them is because with all their callousness and danger, they don't want to hurt her, and that may be a low bar but it's also a very meaningful distinction.

I have no idea how this would fit into canon, but it would be really fun to see someone approach Pet (the earlier in the timeline the better) with the genuine intention of corrupting her/pulling her over to the Dark Side for their own gain, only to have Zero and Athelas swoop in like avenging furies because how dare you try to hurt her like that. Their own moral compasses may be broken but they know what they DON'T want for her!!

[sweetteaanddragons]

@incomingalbatross Okay, I love the idea in your tags so, so much. Pet is trying to *empathize* and *help* and Athelas has just been handed another stick to hit himself with.

@onaslansside That's a good point! I think you're right that they'd have a good chance of catching him/investigating from there.

(I hope it's okay to keep spamming you with asks about City between because I have THOUGHTS)

I keep thinking about the chain of events in the last few books and how easily things could have gone just *slightly* differently.

For example - If events had turned out differently, Zero might have been king.

If they'd run into a few more obstacles/distractions, Ruth might not have figured out who the killer was when she did.

In a world where *both* those things were true - where we run through the events of books nine and ten but with Athelas a full part of the team and this somehow ends with Zero on the throne - what do you think Athelas would have done?

His goals are accomplished: the king and Lord Sero are dead.

And yet he is also not dead . . . and no one knows what's done. Yet.

Zero is definitely still invested in the identity of the murderer! But he's also probably going to be way too busy to be personally investigating right at the moment.

I can't stop picturing a scenario where he just. Delegates the investigation to Athelas.

If that happened, do you think Athelas would confess? (Probably not, seems too direct for him. But he WAS laying that trail of evidence. So maybe . . . sideways confess? Get Zero to assign him some help and make sure the other investigators figured it out?) Or would he take the opportunity to thoroughly cover it up - "Good news, my lord, the murderer was sworn to one of your political enemies! :) I killed him when he attempted to evade arrest! :) Sorry if there were any further questions you wanted to ask! :) No, I do *not* want any tea right now, Pet, and also here is a random nice thing I did for you, do not ask me why."

(It is ABSOLUTELY okay, I love City Between Thoughts and I very much understand the feeling!)

I. OUCH??? This is a HORRIBLE concept. I love it. Had to take longer to answer this because it made me a little insane.

AU where Athelas gets everything he's ever wanted EXCEPT all the most important parts are still under false pretenses. MAN.

Zero could ABSOLUTELY delegate it to him. He's the other expert! He's the only one who knows the case as well as Zero! And I... I don't know how he'd handle that.

My impression is that in book 7, or certainly by book 8, he's resigned himself to the reveal as being inevitable. Planting the trail of evidence was way back in book 4, though, so it may have been his plan all along... Either way, though, planning for that and then getting an unexpected reprieve? Somehow coming out of everything with Zero on the throne and their trust in him intact?

He could decide "it's still inevitable, I should take control of the circumstances" and steer them that way... but he can't label himself The Enemy the way he could in canon, because he already helped them take down Sero and the King! So would he still go for some kind of self-destructive reveal? Or would he let them find the answers and then just disappear into the night?

I don't see him hoping for forgiveness, so any kind of reveal would be burning his bridges. The question is whether he'd plan to survive that or not.

And MAN the route where he covers it up... AUGH. Yeah, I can see him looking at this unexpected chance and not being able to throw it away - even if part of his brain is still insisting it's going to end badly, why pull things down on top of himself? Why rush into something that will, in fact, just hurt everyone?

...I don't know if it's worse to imagine him getting caught, or worse to imagine he doesn't. Maybe new dangers of exposure keep coming up from unexpected directions, and he has to keep crossing more lines he promised himself he was done with, to stay safe. Or maybe there are no dangers, and everything is perfectly fine! No one will ever know his true crimes... except him. But that's fine. :)

TERRIBLE. Thank you so much for sharing. I'm going to be haunted by this now.

[sweetteaanddragons]

Okay, further angsty thought:

You are very right about Athelas very much seeming to view his death as an expected/necessary part of the plan; post reveal in canon, he repeatedly tries to provoke people into killing him, goes to Lord Sero in the expectation of being killed, and tries to make a heroic sacrifice in battle.

Part of that is that he seems to buy into the death=redemption narrative. He thinks he has to die, but he wants to shape his legacy; he doesn't think he can be accepted alive, but he thinks he can be remembered well, and he wants to be.

So another possibility would be Athelas "solving" the investigation, helping Zero solidify his reign . . . and then looking for ways to heroically go down. No confession and no living with the consequences!

This would, of course, be devastating for everyone caught in the aftermath of this.

Or even for all of them if they caught on to what Athelas was trying to do in time but this time didn't have context for the whys.

(I hope it's okay to keep spamming you with asks about City between because I have THOUGHTS)

I keep thinking about the chain of events in the last few books and how easily things could have gone just *slightly* differently.

For example - If events had turned out differently, Zero might have been king.

If they'd run into a few more obstacles/distractions, Ruth might not have figured out who the killer was when she did.

In a world where *both* those things were true - where we run through the events of books nine and ten but with Athelas a full part of the team and this somehow ends with Zero on the throne - what do you think Athelas would have done?

His goals are accomplished: the king and Lord Sero are dead.

And yet he is also not dead . . . and no one knows what's done. Yet.

Zero is definitely still invested in the identity of the murderer! But he's also probably going to be way too busy to be personally investigating right at the moment.

I can't stop picturing a scenario where he just. Delegates the investigation to Athelas.

If that happened, do you think Athelas would confess? (Probably not, seems too direct for him. But he WAS laying that trail of evidence. So maybe . . . sideways confess? Get Zero to assign him some help and make sure the other investigators figured it out?) Or would he take the opportunity to thoroughly cover it up - "Good news, my lord, the murderer was sworn to one of your political enemies! :) I killed him when he attempted to evade arrest! :) Sorry if there were any further questions you wanted to ask! :) No, I do *not* want any tea right now, Pet, and also here is a random nice thing I did for you, do not ask me why."

(It is ABSOLUTELY okay, I love City Between Thoughts and I very much understand the feeling!)

I. OUCH??? This is a HORRIBLE concept. I love it. Had to take longer to answer this because it made me a little insane.

AU where Athelas gets everything he's ever wanted EXCEPT all the most important parts are still under false pretenses. MAN.

Zero could ABSOLUTELY delegate it to him. He's the other expert! He's the only one who knows the case as well as Zero! And I... I don't know how he'd handle that.

My impression is that in book 7, or certainly by book 8, he's resigned himself to the reveal as being inevitable. Planting the trail of evidence was way back in book 4, though, so it may have been his plan all along... Either way, though, planning for that and then getting an unexpected reprieve? Somehow coming out of everything with Zero on the throne and their trust in him intact?

He could decide "it's still inevitable, I should take control of the circumstances" and steer them that way... but he can't label himself The Enemy the way he could in canon, because he already helped them take down Sero and the King! So would he still go for some kind of self-destructive reveal? Or would he let them find the answers and then just disappear into the night?

I don't see him hoping for forgiveness, so any kind of reveal would be burning his bridges. The question is whether he'd plan to survive that or not.

And MAN the route where he covers it up... AUGH. Yeah, I can see him looking at this unexpected chance and not being able to throw it away - even if part of his brain is still insisting it's going to end badly, why pull things down on top of himself? Why rush into something that will, in fact, just hurt everyone?

...I don't know if it's worse to imagine him getting caught, or worse to imagine he doesn't. Maybe new dangers of exposure keep coming up from unexpected directions, and he has to keep crossing more lines he promised himself he was done with, to stay safe. Or maybe there are no dangers, and everything is perfectly fine! No one will ever know his true crimes... except him. But that's fine. :)

TERRIBLE. Thank you so much for sharing. I'm going to be haunted by this now.

[sweetteaanddragons]

These are EXCELLENT thoughts, thank you! And I love your darker take on this in the tags!

(I hope it's okay to keep spamming you with asks about City between because I have THOUGHTS)

I keep thinking about the chain of events in the last few books and how easily things could have gone just *slightly* differently.

For example - If events had turned out differently, Zero might have been king.

If they'd run into a few more obstacles/distractions, Ruth might not have figured out who the killer was when she did.

In a world where *both* those things were true - where we run through the events of books nine and ten but with Athelas a full part of the team and this somehow ends with Zero on the throne - what do you think Athelas would have done?

His goals are accomplished: the king and Lord Sero are dead.

And yet he is also not dead . . . and no one knows what's done. Yet.

Zero is definitely still invested in the identity of the murderer! But he's also probably going to be way too busy to be personally investigating right at the moment.

I can't stop picturing a scenario where he just. Delegates the investigation to Athelas.

If that happened, do you think Athelas would confess? (Probably not, seems too direct for him. But he WAS laying that trail of evidence. So maybe . . . sideways confess? Get Zero to assign him some help and make sure the other investigators figured it out?) Or would he take the opportunity to thoroughly cover it up - "Good news, my lord, the murderer was sworn to one of your political enemies! :) I killed him when he attempted to evade arrest! :) Sorry if there were any further questions you wanted to ask! :) No, I do *not* want any tea right now, Pet, and also here is a random nice thing I did for you, do not ask me why."

(It is ABSOLUTELY okay, I love City Between Thoughts and I very much understand the feeling!)

I. OUCH??? This is a HORRIBLE concept. I love it. Had to take longer to answer this because it made me a little insane.

AU where Athelas gets everything he's ever wanted EXCEPT all the most important parts are still under false pretenses. MAN.

Zero could ABSOLUTELY delegate it to him. He's the other expert! He's the only one who knows the case as well as Zero! And I... I don't know how he'd handle that.

My impression is that in book 7, or certainly by book 8, he's resigned himself to the reveal as being inevitable. Planting the trail of evidence was way back in book 4, though, so it may have been his plan all along... Either way, though, planning for that and then getting an unexpected reprieve? Somehow coming out of everything with Zero on the throne and their trust in him intact?

He could decide "it's still inevitable, I should take control of the circumstances" and steer them that way... but he can't label himself The Enemy the way he could in canon, because he already helped them take down Sero and the King! So would he still go for some kind of self-destructive reveal? Or would he let them find the answers and then just disappear into the night?

I don't see him hoping for forgiveness, so any kind of reveal would be burning his bridges. The question is whether he'd plan to survive that or not.

And MAN the route where he covers it up... AUGH. Yeah, I can see him looking at this unexpected chance and not being able to throw it away - even if part of his brain is still insisting it's going to end badly, why pull things down on top of himself? Why rush into something that will, in fact, just hurt everyone?

...I don't know if it's worse to imagine him getting caught, or worse to imagine he doesn't. Maybe new dangers of exposure keep coming up from unexpected directions, and he has to keep crossing more lines he promised himself he was done with, to stay safe. Or maybe there are no dangers, and everything is perfectly fine! No one will ever know his true crimes... except him. But that's fine. :)

TERRIBLE. Thank you so much for sharing. I'm going to be haunted by this now.

[sweetteaanddragons]

Athelas as an inside man . . . okay, that is a very plausible thought, but also, that would have ended *so badly* for Sero.

So after seeing your posts about City Between, I decided I had to give it a try - and having finished book ten today, I am so glad I did! I love how so many of the fae aren't used to anyone else caring about the people they care about (North's comment in one of the later books about Sarah having to live and telling Pet to "add that to your plan" because even after how much she's seen from Pet she STILL can't trust that OF COURSE saving the twelve year old is automatically part of the plan), I love the growth so many of the characters go through, I love Pet's stubborn morality, I love the twist at the end of book ten, and I love the complicated situation with Athelas.

However, having read it, there is one thing I felt I had to rant about:

Zero's dad is so *stupid.*

I mean, he's clever! He has very clever plans! And he has goals that even if they aren't sympathetic, they're understandable - lots of people throughout history have tried to get their relatives on the throne.

But the whole point of that is supposed to be that once they are on the throne, they'll do you favors! Protect you! Get you more powerful!

And here Lord Sero is, having spent Zero's entire life making sure Zero will thoroughly hate him.

I guess he assumed he would know Zero's weak points and be able to manipulate him? Use his name, maybe?

But given how well that worked for him leading up to the Challenge . . .

Even if he didn't love Zero, he really should have tried to make sure Zero loved him. Because if Lord Sero's plan HAD worked, and he'd ended up, say, murdering Pet and getting Zero on the throne . . . I don't think that ends with Sero getting the reward he wanted.

The reward Athelas wanted, maybe. But not the one Sero wanted.

Oh I'm so glad to hear you liked it!! :D

That's such a good point about the fae - they're often bad at generalizing "caring for people" beyond their own in-groups, but they're ALSO definitely bad at imagining anyone else might do that. Because right, obviously Pet is going to take care of the twelve-year-old, but that's not a given in North's world, even after everything up to this point. And yes, I also love all of those things!

But man, you're very right about Sero.

Presumably he was planning to somehow dominate Zero through fear/force after he got him on the throne... but yeah historically that has not worked well for him, even with Zero NOT, you know, King of the World Behind. Any power he's had over Zero has always had to be very brute-force - I know Zero himself thought he'd be stuck as a puppet of the Family, but honestly there wouldn't be a lot left for them to hold over him at that point, right?

Certainly by the end of the series, if his dad had killed Pet, I think Zero would be much more likely to break than to bend. Not a good future for Zero but also DEFINITELY not a good one for his enemies.

...best route I can imagine is that Sero was figuring he'd use Athelas as an inside man to influence the new King? That could have worked. If, you know, Athelas had ever for a second been up for doing that.

[sweetteaanddragons]

i need a lotr fic where a road-weary boromir overhears a scruffy ranger talking to some hobbits about rivendell whilst he checks in to an inn in bree and very desperately begs/asks if he could perhaps travel with them if they really are going to that damnable valley, as he has been searching for several weeks now and has had no luck in finding it

[sweetteaanddragons]

Cinderella losing her shoe by Caroline von der Embde (German, 1812-1904)

[sweetteaanddragons]

Thanks for the tag! I'm afraid I could only find one for "look." Have an extra long snippet in compensation.

Gil-Galad was not surprised that Maglor Feanorian could look like Doom personified. He was surprised he could manage it while half starved, sitting on the ground, and holding a child.

Clearly, he had underestimated the man.

“I sent them to you to be safe,” Maglor hissed, and his voice sounded like bones rattling. “And you failed them.”

“It’s not like we didn’t try to talk him out of it,” Gil-Galad protested. “It was his choice to make!”

He realized the moment the words left his mouth that this was the worst possible way to phrase things.

Elrond let out a choked cry. Maglor clutched him even closer to his chest, even as his face went pale as death.

Galadriel, for her part, produced a truly vicious glare. “Eonwe gave them a choice,” she explained. “Elros chose mortality. He lived to a prodigious old age.”

“And you didn’t talk him out of it,” Maglor repeated.

“Nor did you!” she shot back, and this was . . . probably not helpful.

Let's go with blood, fire, song, and journey for any of my followers who want to do it!

WIP Word Search

Tagged by @jaz-the-bard <3 love u!

How it works: I search for the words assigned to me by the person who tagged me and share the relevant snippets. I then choose four words for others to search in their own WIP(s).

I'm gonna use my Berúthiel WIP! I would like to show it off a bit.

My words: rise, need, shadow, number

-

Rise: no instances in this WIP!

Need:

Still she could not always stay within her nurse’s protection; she needed her respites from any kind of company or attention, so by necessity she grew more adept at finding sitting-places where she would not be noticed by anyone who happened to come near. Cabinets and garden shrubs and old forgotten rooms became her friends; she would sit snug behind shelter and watch, through greenery or keyhole, as the world went by.

Shadow: (cw for gore on this one!)

“Oh!” said her nurse. “Do you mean – but they are wicked people, child – criminals and misbelievers and barbarous foemen. They ought to suffer. No one would do the like to you – not in a thousand years!” “Yes, they would,” Tamar whispered, and did not know how to put into words the truth of what she was saying: that every time, every time, she felt the knife in the sacrifice’s breast slide like a shadow into her own; that she knew how her blood would run from her in rivulets if spilled, because it would run the same way theirs did; that one heart looked the same as another held up in bloodied hands, and if it might as well be hers as theirs, then what difference did it make which bosom it happened to be torn from?

Number:

Tamar watched them until they went around the corner out of sight. Then she crept into the room they had taken the bags and things out of. Inside, just as she had suspected, she found a lot of shelves and a number of barrels, the gaps between which made marvelous crannies to sit in.

I shall tag @halfelven, @edennill, @fingons-rad-harp, and anyone else who wants to! Your words are hope, road, echo, and home.

[sweetteaanddragons]

Since Tim was already covered - Bruce + Clark? (I'm really enjoying your headcanons!)

Please, don't get me started. I love them too much.

I've gone on RANTS in group chats over the relief each of them likely felt when they finally learned to trust each other. Finally, finally, someone who can be a load-bearing pillar to their Atlassian loads. They both recognize the power in each other—someone to stop me before I go too far, someone who can shoulder this burden even if I falter—but also the goodness. They are each other's equal in every way.

I once again must gesture emphatically at "The Last of the Real Ones" by Fall Out Boy as the most perfect song ever written to capture their dynamic.

None of that is an actual headcanon, so instead I'll throw in a story idea I have been kicking around for years but haven't figured out how to write, which is Bruce being in such a mood in the Watchtower that it drives the rest of the League off, only for Clark to show up, take one look at Bruce, and recognize the migraine that had been plaguing him for hours. And now, finally, now that Superman is here to take control, Bruce can stagger off to rest.