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fromtheseventhhell · 1 year

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IDK if it's exactly what you wanted but your recent post about Mirri came "in time" for what I've seen.

Here are some screeshots of tags from this post

To me it seems like they try to critique the writing but as always, tend to blame the character. Plus, they sprinkle some lies (that Dany forced Mirri to save Drogo, that she refuses to engage with history), they project onto GRRM (that he wants to critique violent intervetionism with her), they ignore his statement about the "white saviour" accusations (which fair, you may not find them satisfying but still, take his intentions into account), they take away acountability of what the slavers did (bc THEY turned Slaver's Bay into a "hole of death" and was that long before Dany arrived) and not saying why "she allowed slavery to continue", which is a convenient way to frame her as immoral because after the masters of Yunkai attacked Astapor, and because "gently born" people, anticipating the struggle in Meereen, ask her to let them sell themselves back into slavery :

"My queen?" Daario stepped forward. "The riverside is full of Meereenese, begging leave to be allowed to sell themselves to this Qartheen. They are thicker than the flies."

Dany was shocked. "They want to be slaves?"

"The ones who come are well spoken and gently born, sweet queen. Such slaves are prized. In the Free Cities they will be tutors, scribes, bed slaves, even healers and priests. They will sleep in soft beds, eat rich foods, and dwell in manses. Here they have lost all, and live in fear and squalor."

"I see." Perhaps it was not so shocking, if these tales of Astapor were true. Dany thought a moment. "Any man who wishes to sell himself into slavery may do so. Or woman." She raised a hand. "But they may not sell their children, nor a man his wife." (ASOS, Daenerys VI)

I mean, she does this because she wants to respect their choice and she makes sure no one is forced to be enslaved. I don't think she should have allowed it but I understand why. It was not out of mallice. (here is a meta about how she is not a slaver X , X )

Plus the tendency to blame Daenerys fans for pointing out how the situation with Mirri was grey, that Mirri indeed killed Rhaego, but they can defend Mirri and acuse us, Dany stans, of being racists and whatnot.

Ironically my post was about conversations on Twitter (I know) where people were demonizing Dany and I found out this post was actually what started it all, so my post was unintentionally a response to this one. I'm gonna talk a little bit about this conversation and the overall conversations about racism in this fandom but I don't mean it as a direct reply to OP's post. The only thing I have to say specific to their post is that it does stand out to me that they acknowledge the issue with Mirri's writing, which is that it's part of a trend with how characters of color are written, but they fail to actually talk about said characters. Their main point isn't even about how Mirri is handled, it's on the subject of Dany's whiteness.

The thing about discussing racism in asoiaf is that it's a more complex and nuanced conversation than a majority of people are willing to have. Often times it just gets devolved into justifications for disliking a specific character and this was the same attitude people had towards the show. If there's racism in the writing, then that's a factor that affects how the entire series is written, it doesn't just reflect poorly on a single character. People definitely act like that's the case though.

On the subject of Mirri and her treatment, it's rare that people discuss her character without using her as a means of bashing Dany. The screenshots you provided highlight this. We're supposed to believe that Mirri's actions towards Dany are justified and that Dany's actions towards Mirri are racist solely on the basis that Mirri is a WOC, but it's not that simple (Also note that it's always "Mirri was right to do what she did" but they never talk about what specifically she did, which was force the abortion of a 14-year-old bridal slave. Somehow saying exactly what happened doesn't make her as sympathetic). What makes the writing racist isn't the situation itself, it's the idea of characters of color being disposable in service of white characters' arcs. But this situation is often talked about as an isolated event, in a vacuum. The logic applied just doesn't work. If race is such an important factor, why was Mirri right to kill a child of color over a prophecy she was ultimately wrong about? There are plenty of racist connotations in the "brute" narrative surrounding POC, specifically men of color, but people eagerly justify his death because of the hypothetical harm he could've caused. They also completely ignore that the prophecy wasn't about him, so the justification is that a child of color can be murdered if people assume they'll cause harm. There were also the others in Drogo's Khalasar that Dany couldn't help because of her situation. Eroeh suffered a horrible fate before her ultimate death, but Dany would've conceivably been able to help her if she hadn't been incapacitated. So does the fact that Mirri's actions harmed other POC, and not just a white woman, factor in at all? Or are we not supposed to care about them because they are, however positively, associated with Dany?

That also leads to the question of what exactly would be the right way of handling this situation. Dany's whiteness is the biggest criticism but her being a woc would come with its own racist connotations. Dany's life of poverty and being sold as a slave would've had other implications when contrasted to the other primarily white, high-born female characters. So what would've been a better way of handling the Dothraki and other people of color in this series? Whether Dany is white or not, the problem isn't solved. Somehow that's never a conversation being had, despite the number of people who supposedly care so much. It also seems as though Dany's suffering, and only Dany's suffering, is considered justifiable through her whiteness. If Dany had been the one to die instead, it still would've been a child bridal slave being killed. How is that the "better" option for people supposedly concerned with racism and misogyny? With almost any other female character their suffering is never justified regardless of who is causing it.

There is just...a different set of standards people have for Dany than they have for any other character. Someone brought up the point that Robb's part in the war caused incredible violence to the smallfolk, yet he is considered one of the noblest characters in the series. We see firsthand the devastation the Northerners are responsible for through Arya's POV, and many women and children specifically are harmed. We hear about countless women being raped and killed from the fallout of Robb's actions but somehow that's not Robb's responsibility. On top of that, there are plenty of smallfolk who have actively anti-North mindsets. Robb, who isn't trying to bring about systemic change or actively focused on fighting for the smallfolk, isn't responsible for the damage he causes them. Dany, who is trying to overthrow a violent system built on subjugating people, is the most evil character in the series because she interacts with characters of color more than anyone else. But then...people seem uninterested in discussing privileges and harm caused when it isn't related to bashing Dany. It's damn near taboo to refer to certain characters as classist, even when that's how they're written.

If you want to discuss racism in the series and fandom though, let's do it! Let's talk about the depiction of the Dothraki vs. The (white) Wildings and the difference in nuance and empathy they get, let's talk about how the current generation of Starks benefit from colonization and the eradication of the children of the forest (who are very much indigenous-coded) and how that's not framed as a bad thing, let's talk about women of color who are already being enslaved before Dany was sold to the Dothraki, let's talk about Alayaya + the senseless violence she faces and how her pain is used to give Tyrion angst, let's talk about the various background women of color portrayed as sex workers and how that could play into the jezebel trope, let's talk about lack of prominent characters of color outside of Dany's pov, let's talk about how D&D wrote a former Black slave dying in chains, how they portrayed the slaves exclusively as people of color despite slavery not being based on race in the books, let's talk about how they played into the Dothraki's racist writing and portrayed Dany's people as "scary foreign invaders" that the North looked down on, let's talk about how everyone justified the Northerners (and Sansa specifically) being scared even though Dany came to help, let's talk about how people in the fandom were laughing at Missandei's death and saying she deserved to die for being "rude" to a white woman, let's talk about fandom's habit of portraying Jon and Arya (considered the uglier, feral starks) as dark-skinned in comparison to their "white" siblings, let's talk about how the hotd writers made characters Black and then diminished their roles and importance, let's talk about how routinely characters of color are ignored and turned into props by fandom, LET'S TALK ABOUT IT! But no, the only capacity people are interested in talking about racism is when they can use it to bash Dany.

TL;DR/summation: There's nothing wrong with having good-faith conversations about racism in the series or disliking a character because of it. The issue is that that's rarely what happens. Instead of having constructive conversations about race, the pain of characters of color gets turned into props and given no nuance outside of that.

#ask #mikastormborn #fandom nonsense #pro daenerys targaryen #daenerys targaryen #this got very long but who cares lol #I'm just so tired of the fake activism in fandom and the double-standards #either talk about racism or don't #using poc as props against a white women is the very racism you're claiming to care but I guess it's fine if Dany antis do it #mind you there's a real racist white woman that part of this fandom worships but I'm supposed to clutch pearls over Dany #considered not tagging her but honestly want to minimize the chance that certain crowds see this

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