#'obsessed with him' that said .... he loves praise but he HATES hero worship. treat him like a person or don't treat him at all lol

[starfxckersinc]

DOING THE HARD WORK OF MAKING EVERYONE IN DORIAN GRAY LOOK LIKE A DICK EXCEPTING, WITH LIMITS, DORIAN GRAY

okay so I’ve read The Picture Of Dorian Gray three times and I plan to again after I finish a few more novels, so I consider myself knowledgeable enough both about the book AND about the fandom surrounding it to make this post. This has been kicking around in my head for YEARS, especially after getting into Velvet Goldmine and noting how that fandom treats Brian Slade, who’s basically a modern interpretation of the same character. I know a lot of people are jonesing for me to rag on Basil Hallward and I plan to, so fair warning to those of you who i know are obsessed with him.

🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟

To start, a lot of people see Lord Henry as the only discernible “Villain” in the book(though the book really has no villain) and Basil as the put upon good guy. This description is somewhat fair. Lord Henry contributes a lot of Dorian’s toxic ideas and enables a LOT of his most self centered behavior, not to mention he gives him the book that inspires his worst deeds. He’s the person who makes it clear to him that youth, self gratification, and most importantly, beauty are all that matter in life. Basil, on the other hand, does his best to “counter” these ideas, though I personally would say his idea of countering amounts to nothing but passive aggressive, low energy disdain. Dorian is too wrapped up in Lord Henry to listen to reason, and eventually murders Basil in cold blood, allowing him to achieve a sort of tragic book character aura that makes him sympathetic.

🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟

To put it simply, the general attitude towards these character dynamics is that Lord Henry is the Bad, Basil is the Good, and Dorian could’ve been good if Lord Henry would’ve let him be. I find this interpretation very surface level despite the relatability of Basil Hallward’s homosexual yearning and romantic struggles.

🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟

But before we dissect Basil, let’s dissect his counterpart. Lord Henry, to start, is immediatley established as a vain and flippant dandy(which is true) because of his belief that beauty is the most valuable trait a person can possess. This is the first lesson that he gives Dorian: that his beauty is his power, that his youth is fleeting, and that life will be worthless once he’s lost the ability to appeal physically to others. However, while he is the first to say it frankly enough for Dorian to consciously understand it, he is NOT the first to communicate that to him. He is just one in a long line of many, as is Basil himself.

🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟

Funnily enough, I would argue that of all the adult figures in Dorian’s life, Lord Henry is the MOST supportive of Dorian’s actual person, and I think it’s entirely natural that he became as attached to him as he did and may have less to do with Henry’s good looks and manipulation than we think. Nobody in his immediate circle of friends or family allows him to explore himself or form an opinion about the world that differs from their own- Except for Henry. It’s merely Dorian’s misfortune that the first person he meets who allows him to be a human being is a conceited asshole, but it follows the theme of Dorian’s life, which is that he is the avatar for older and more cowardly men. And in Lord Henry’s eyes, Dorian’s poetential is limitless. He’s happy to give him ideas and let him run wild, but can’t accept the responsibility of teaching him kindness or compassion or self-preservation, because that would make the spectacle less interesting. Lord Henry is using a 19-to-20 year old to live out his fantasy of what he wishes he could do- But he’s not really different from Basil in that respect.

🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟

And now it is time.

Basil Hallward reminds me a lot of myself, so I feel like I understand his motivations. He’s a shy, earnest, secretive artist who doesn’t care much for anything besides doing his work and yearning while looking out over his garden. He’s upset by people like Lord Henry, who are the embodiment of the poet who lives what he cannot write, because he is the opposite: He creates, and therefore doesn’t have to live out, his fantasy worlds. Basil is repressed and mild mannered while Henry, to his intense jealousy, is more attractive, vivacious, and conversationally interesting- Which is most likely why he didn’t want to share him with Dorian, instead of the reason he gave, which was that Dorian’s pure personality would be tarnished. It’s quite obvious Basil has a crush. But I don’t believe he ever loved, or even truly cared for, Dorian himself.

🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟

Allow me to explain: I have a whole blog of random pictures, mainly of other people, that I keep because I find those pictures striking in some sense. I don’t have an aesthetic theme, really: It’s just people who make me feel, or think, or see something a certain way. I have a pregnant wax figurine in there and old pictures of Marilyn Monroe- And I find both creatively interesting because of how they appear to me. What I’m getting at is I think Dorian Gray is to Basil what an art blog is to the average tumblr user. As David Bowie once said, there’s a difference between being in love and going on to love someone; And there is a difference between being fascinated with your muse and actually caring about the person beyond the projection.

🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟

I think it’s extremely telling that before painting his portrait, Basil had an entire notebook dedicated to portraying Dorian as various mythical figures and heroes. I think it’s even more telling that when Basil DOES paint his portrait, he’s ashamed of it because it is a portrait of HIS soul, an admittance of his worship and idolatry. Dorian REPRESENTS something to Basil, and it’s fun to speculate on what: I believe he is the poster boy for all of Basil’s sexual and romantic fantasies, which he obviously finds shameful, woven together with the romantic escapism found in mythology. But it’s obvious from the start that Dorian is Not the virtuous young man that he wants him to be, and that those virtues are simply what Hallward believes Dorian should be like, as opposed to what he actually is.

🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟

This is depressing, but what’s worse is that Dorian is aware of it, which is what actually inspired me to write this post. When he realizes his youth is fleeting, he accuses Basil of the truth, in a heartbreaking scene featuring this quote,

“Dorian Gray turned and looked at him. ‘I believe you would, Basil. You like your art better than your friends. I am no more to you than a green bronze figure. Hardly as much, I dare say.’ The painter stared in amazement. ‘Yes,’ He continued, I am less to you than your ivory Hermès or your silver Faun. You will like them always. How long will you like me? Till I have my first wrinkle, I suppose. I know, now, that when someone loses one’s good looks, whatever they may be, one loses everything. Your picture has taught me that. Lord Henry Wotton is perfectly right. Youth is the only thing worth having. When I find that I am growing old, I shall kill myself.’

Hallward turned pale, and caught his hand. ‘Dorian! Dorian!’ he cried, ‘don’t talk like that. I never had such a friend as you, and I shall never have such another. You are not jealous of material things, are you- you who are finer than all of them!”

🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟

Lord Henry and Basil are nowhere near on the same moral level, but what’s tragic is that they, and everyone else, treat Dorian the same way- As their vicarious vessel. It’s just that Basil’s idea of what Dorian should be is A) Literal sainthood(as evidenced by the above quote), and B) Impossible to live up to, so therefore he seems to be the nicer guy. But it’s cruel to value anyone for what you can get from them, even if that thing is great art.

🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟

In my opinion, the adult figures in Dorian’s life couldn’t give less of a shit about his true nature. His grandfather hated him and wanted nothing to do with him. Lord Henry is interested in seeing how far Dorian would go to do the things he can’t do because of his own cowardice. Basil expects him to be a storybook character, as do most people who came into contact with him. He was right to believe that his looks were the only thing anybody wanted from him because it’s the truth.

🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟

To close, my personal interpretation of Dorian Gray is this: Dorian Gray was a neglected, naive child who became the fancy of two older men, both of whom were only concerned with using him as a fantasy and therefore both corrupted him for their own personal gain. This in no way excuses his actions, but I think it better explains them- And I think it condemns the people who ought to be condemned. Lord Henry was the person who played on his lack of self-worth to manipulate him, but Basil was the person who exacerbated that lack of self-worth in the first place. Basil wasn’t a good mentor(and DID NOT deserve to be his boyfriend). Henry wasn’t a good mentor. There was no good mentor- There was only Dorian, and the simple fact that people weren’t going to love him if he stopped being pretty. The person he became afterwards was someone of his own making- But the initially shy, praise-hungry, warped young boy who felt the need to become that person was both Basil and Henry’s creation.

[pxiao]

My thoughts on Y_saku

So I have been keeping up on Vr, I hate myself for it by the way, but kept it quiet here because I have nothing good to say about it. BUT episode 69 finally pushed my limit on the protagonist so let’s finally get on why I hate this ass and consider him the most pathetically written main character thus far. If you’re a fan of Y_saku, don’t read cause you know what you’re getting into. 

First let me state what I hate about him on a personal level aka this is just my personal opinion which are, PM is a huge asshole, his voice annoys me and his design tries too hard to be dark and edgy that it hurts to see every time. I like protagonists that are nice or at least have good intentions. Ego has always pissed me off and for better or for worse Y_saku has a lot of ego. It was fine at first but 60+ episodes plus it’s annoying how he acts like he’s the best around and the SHOW AGREES WITH HIM. I LOATHE his VR design, it’s too much. His hair looks stupid and yes I know this is YGO but there are limits like with Zxl, VR pushed it too far. His body suit is ugly to look at and they try TOO hard to make him look muscular. I get it, you’re trying to get the fangirls BUT I��M SICK OF LOOKING AT IT. His voice is the worst, it doesn’t sound natural at all. He always has the same forced, deadpan voice. You can tell how forced it sounds compared to the Va’s original voice, it hurts to hear as I can feel how badly the va is trying. Overall Y_saku as a character annoys my senses from my vision and hearing. 

Now for the objective analysis. Y_saku has no character. Wait that’s wrong, he has only one character trait, he has PTSD and that’s it. I’m serious all of season 1 kept stating, “HE WANT REVENGE AND HE WILL GET IT!” Everything we learn about him is related to his torture. His three things tick? He learned it when he was tortured. He wants revenge? He was tortured and wants to know why. He’s a good duelist? He was tortured to win. AND THAT’S ALL. His stoic nature is due to his ptsd and well what you see HE GOT THAT CAUSE HE WAS TORTURED!  Try to define Y_saku without saying their role in the story, what they look like or what they do. All you get is quiet, stoic guy. That’s not a functional personality at all, it’s just an attitude. That is the description to EVERY CLICHE ANTIHERO EVER. What are his dreams, his desires? What does he like? What does he dislike outside of the KOH? Does he even like the hot dogs he keeps eating cause he sure as hell doesn’t seem to enjoy it! His goals and dislikes are focused on his past and thus season 2 when he’s past his revenge, he’s just there. We have not learned a single thing about him for the 20+ episodes that Season 2 has been going on. He’s just focused on saving his acquaintance’s brother’s soul thing. Y_saku is a blank slate with some traits grafted on which you can tell, HE HAS NO BACKSTORY cause he “lost his memories” how  conveniently. But we have the backstory of every nearly other “major” character. Go said his backstory in his duel against SB, SB had an entire mini arc about his backstory, Kus_ngai had his backstory in another flashback arc right after SB had his, Re_olver got to tell his when Y_saku confronted him at the end of season 1 and Spe_tre, Ak_ra and A_i got their backstories revealed in their duels against Y_saku. Y_saku and GG alone don’t have a backstory. Y_saku is the MAIN CHARACTER and it’s not like his goal is to get his memories back, he doesn’t care. So if we do get his backstory is a mystery! Y_saku is bland and it annoys me that people love him anyway. 

His plot armor. I know YGO has HORRIBLE plot armor BUT Y_saku deserve mention BECAUSE OF HOW THICK IT IS. Y_saku winning all of his duels is annoying but that can passed if they’re fun. They aren’t due to two reasons. His SKILL and his monotonous dueling. SKILL is not the same as his skills, they are different, his SKILL being Storm Access. Storm Access is the most blatant asspull so far and is more annoying than Shining Draw because Y_SAKU USES IT NEARLY EVERY DUEL. And the only reason he doesn’t use it every duel is because HE CAN’T due to the master duels prevent skills from being used. But speed duels? HE ALWAYS ABUSES IT which makes us question how good is Y_saku if everytime he gets in a corner his first reaction is, well time to make a random card to get out of this situation. The other protagonists minus Y_ma would use whatever cards they have on hand to solve their situation. PM? NOOOOO, HIS REACTION IS TO CHEAT! There is nothing to root for. I’m not praising his skill nor his cunning, I’m praising his luck! And because of his dependence on this his dueling is roughly the same thing. I’ll get my lifepoints below 1000 to use it and then use thousands of link summons to get to the final one. Every single one of this duels are like this with season 2 adding BUT NOW THE LINKS SEARCH TO SUMMON THE OTHER METHODS! YAY. His dueling is the same damn thing and we know he’s going to win. There isn’t any reason to watch him. And it gets better when he learn that his deck WASN’T EVEN BUILT BY HIM! Dueling is 90% deck building and then 10% using it right. Since Y_saku was given the “best deck”, honestly it isn’t cause his cards are pure shit except Firewall but he barely uses HIS ACE but in-universe they’re considered the best, that essentially means he was HANDED THE BEST WEAPON IN THE SERIES and we’re expected to consider him good for being ok with it. 

Y_saku is loved BY EVERYONE, the show included, especially the show. EVERYONE WORSHIPS THE GUY, he’s considered the hero of Link Vr_ins by episode 3 BY BEATING A MOOK which also has a net show openly say he’s good looking. The makes a point to show he’s hyper popular with Go’s orphanage LOVING HIM, we cut from A_i’s duel with Sp_ctre to show a kid copying Y_saku’s vr avatar and saying he’ll defend Link Vr_ins and we get gratuitous shot of PM protecting the kid and saying I’ll protect whatever the setting is all in A_I’S FOCUS EPISODE! GG’s focus episodes ends with her saying PM is INVINCIBLE! And K_sangai says PM is invincible. EVEN THE KOH SAY WOW PM IS SUCH A BADASS THAT HE KICKED OUT ASSES LAST SEASON, AI who was HIS SLAVE now worships the guy. The only character that dislikes him is a one-off cocky bully aka we’re meant to hate him cause he dares to hate the PERFECT YU_AKU. The show bends over backwards to make us love him but they jumped the gun. It’s obvious we’re supposed to love him because of how “cool” he is and it REFUSES TO STOP. Nearly every episode has at least one character talk about how smart, how strong or how amazing PM is when he has done really nothing to deserve it and no personality to justify us liking him.

Y_saku is HORRIBLE representation for mental illness. I don’t mean his PTSD is unrealistic, a therapist friend of mine says it’s actually realistic. IT’S HOW THE SHOW TREATS IT.  Y_saku states he went through therapy for his PTSD and it didn’t work so he went to REVENGE. As someone that has a mental disorder that plague me for year and at the worst of it, I considered suicide and later got therapy. THAT’S NOT HOW THERAPY WORKS. Therapy isn’t a magic thing that will magically fix you, it depends on how much the patent wants to get better. You can take as many therapy sessions as you want and if you don’t TRY to get better, you’re wasting your time and money. I’m not saying all therapy or therapists are effective BUT you can’t just say well this one didn’t work, therapy doesn’t work at all. Therapy is about FIGHTING your mental disorder to try to fix it, it’s not as simple as going through your memories and finding the reason you’re messed up. Honestly this suggest that Y_saku is a wimp that couldn’t fight his disorder and is instead RUNNING FROM IT. The show even has the GALL to say his PSTD makes PM better. A_ira has said PM’s issues means he finds himself in victory and thus when he duels, he tries as hard as he can to win. That’s BULLSHIT. If he really did have PSTD, anytime he was in danger of losing then he would freak out that he would get shocked and make a lot of mistakes to make sure it doesn’t happen. Anxiety isn’t the same as being worried, it’s all consuming. It makes it hard to think, eat or sleep. You can’t think of anything but what you’re scared of happening and that takes over your mind. You can’t do anything, it doesn’t make you try real hard, it messes with you. But not PM, NOPE IT MAKES HIM BETTER KIDS. 

Finally the reason for this post. His hypocrisy. Episode 69 has him DARE TO say REVENGE WON’T LET YOU MOVE ON. HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA SHUT THE FUCK UP, YOU FUJO BAIT BLANK SLATE! You see when he dueled A_ira, A_ira made a point of saying maybe they shouldn’t let a teen send his youth fighting terrorists and try to be happy while he, an adult whose company had been the focus on said terrorist attacks, deals with them. PM BLOWS HIS FUCKING LID AND SAYS, “YOU HAVE NO IDEA ABOUT ME” and essentially has a temper tantrum about how HE HAS TO GET revenge and wins with A_ira giving on trying to convince PM so the show is essentially agreeing with PM that he needs his revenge. And now that PM has got it, HE DARES TO SAY THAT TO SOMEONE ELSE. Which is laughable as he got cured because he was in a tough spot and thought maybe it would be nice to have friends, not that he ever tried to make them when A_ described his friends. That’s not development as by this point PM had already GOT his revenge. PM wanted to know why he was tortured, which he learned BECAUSE HE KEPT OBSESSING ABOUT HIS REVENGE. His revenge let him meet Re_olver which result in Dr. Kog_mi, the man who TORTURED him, to die. And due to said revenge, he got to meet A_ who helped him “develop”. Overall he could only get better BECAUSE HE CARED FOR REVENGE. HE HAS NO RIGHT TO SAY THAT EVER. 

Overall Y_saku is an inconsistent sloppy written character. In fact watch this video and try to not think about Y_saku when watching, I couldn’t. 

[radicalseabies]

Why do people like Bakugou? I've not finished the series yet, but does he get a redemption arc or mellow out or something later on? Idk I'd like to know why the guy who told Deku to kill himself and bullied him and others has so much love.

y’know, the mangaka himself, horikoshi, once said in an interview he’s actually surprised at how much people ended up loving bakugou, because he was written to be such a horrible, unlikable person. and well, i mean, he is!! but imo, unlikable people can make for some of the most interesting characters in fiction.

first things first, bakugou is a very problematic individual, there’s simply no denying that. he’s loud, obnoxious, aggressive, extremely rude, and yes, he once even told deku to kill himself, which is a truly despicable thing to do. but something that’s very important to understand about all this is that he’s actually very rarely, if ever, praised or rewarded for this disgusting behaviour. his rude outbursts are, more often than not, played for laughs at his expense, his callous actions have cost him on numerous occasions (and it’s happening more as the story progresses), and almost nobody in the class likes him as a person. everybody thinks he’s horrible and unpleasant to be around, and his old friends from middle-school are even shown calling him out shortly after telling deku to kill himself, saying that he went overboard. (as well as deku remarking to himself that it was a very stupid and awful thing to say).

but in spite of all his terrible, negative traits, this boy is also really strong, and smart as hell. he’s got the 3rd highest grades in the whole class, meaning he’s serious about his school work, and he’s unshakably committed to his goal of becoming the strongest hero, and he’s got the strength, fighting skill, and drive to back it all up. he’s constantly trying his absolute best, and while his UA classmates all think he’s a complete asshole, they DO respect his strength, his keen intellect, his skill for tactics and battle, his passion for victory, and it actually inspires them to get them fired up, wanting to do the best that they can do as well, whether they like him as a person or not.

in answer to your question, i think one of the biggest factors playing into the fans love of his character is his backstory. he doesn’t have your typical tragic backstory that an angry, aggressive character of his archetype usually has. there’s no dark, traumatic past. no villains killed his family or anything like that. 

basically, bakugou is mentally ill.

katsuki bakugou was a gifted child who was told constantly from a young age that his quirk was amazing, that he was amazing, and he grew up believing it, believing he was better than others, and it warped him. he grew into a self obsessed, cruel, obnoxious child with a superiority complex, believing himself to be the best and that everyone else around him was just trash. his ego, so twistedly convinced of his own ability and superiority, he detested the idea of ever needing help from anybody, which fed strongly into his hatred and, yes, fear of deku, the only person in his life who ever treated him differently.

“you looked like you were asking for help”

and then he eventually enrolled at UA, and the little world he’d been living in finally came crashing down around him as he was sucker punched with the reality that this whole time he was really just a big fish in a small pond, and his superiority complex began to violently twist into an extreme inferiority complex. the rug had been pulled out from his feet and he was now surrounded by people who were just as capable as him, if not more so, and who, rather than worshipping him as the coolest kid with the coolest quirk, actually thought he was a kind of a douche.

not to mention deku, who he believed to be quirkless and the one person he hated the most, suddenly had a powerful quirk as well, and was now able to compete with and even surpass him in ways he never imagined. had deku been playing him for a fool this whole time??

all this clashed very harshly with everything he had come to believe in so strongly, and, understandably, caused him a lot of extreme confusion, anxiety, resentment, and most notably… Anger. his whole life has turned upside down and he has no idea how to handle it. so, being the person he is, the person his life up until this point had nurtured him into becoming, his natural instinct is now to blindly act out very… (excuse the pun)… Explosively.

he figuratively (and sometimes literally) blasts away anything and everything that doesnt agree with his perceived image of how things should be. he’s spent his whole life believing he was the best so FUCK IT, now he’s GOING TO BE THE GOD DAMN BEST!! his classmates dont like him/make fun of him/think he’s a dickhead?? WHATEVER, SHUT UP YOU DAMN NERDS!! I DONT WANT ANYTHING TO DO WITH YOU ANYWAY!! deku, the useless, annoying kid from his childhood is now standing in the way of his goal of being number one?? DEKU YOU DAMN NERD, I WILL DESTROY YOU!!

but… what has this aggressive and anti-social attitude actually achieved for him so far?? honestly, very little… in fact, this behaviour has been doing him a lot more harm than good in the long run, not just professionally, but for his own safety, and his mental health too. (i’d absolutely go into a lot more detail here but you mentioned you’re not up to date so i don’t want to spoil too much)

some people might say this all just sounds like an spoiled brat throwing a temper tantrum, and i guess on some level, that’s probably true. but in my opinion, the bottom line is it’s not his fault. taking something all might says about him in chapter 121 and expanding on it slightly, i believe bakugou ultimately ended up the way he did through the failure of his upbringing. the failure of the adults in his life. if he hadnt been told so continuously from a young age that he was amazing, and then left unchecked for so long, if maybe people were more firm with him about his behaviour from a young age, perhaps he may not have grown into such an angry, messed up person.

but in spite of all of this, as i mentioned earlier, this boy ain’t dumb. he’s smart as hell. it’s taking him a long time to realise it, blinded as he is by all his confusing emotions, and it’s taking him a long time to work through his issues and do anything about it, but he is changing. slowly. slowly, but believably.

bakugou, in my personal opinion, is one of the most interestingly written characters in the series, and it’s been very fascinating and rewarding to watch his gradual development over the course of the story so far. he certainly hasnt done a 180 or anything, he’s still a very loud and very angry boy, but he’s slowly beginning to change in a number of subtle, nuanced ways. bakugou now is remarkably different than bakugou as you see him in chapter 1.

one last thing to consider, is how relatively early we are in the story compared to the grand scheme of things. i believe i heard somewhere that horikoshi once said a while back that the story was roughly 20% done, which lead people to project the manga would run for approximately 500+ chapters, at least, and we’re only at 146 now at the time of this writing. 

bakugou is the 2nd most important character in the story after deku, the protagonist. so much of their development is built around each other, and it wouldnt make sense, narratively or realistically, for a character like bakugou, the way he is and his overall importance to both the story and dekus own development, to change too much in too short amount of time. a character arc like bakugou’s is one that will be played out slowly, but surely, and most importantly, satisfyingly. he will change. little by little. he is changing. he has changed already, and he will continue to change.

sorry this got really long, i just really like bakugou. i understand where some people are coming from when they say they don’t like him. that’s completely fair, liking a character is completely subjective, especially a character as prickly as bakugou is. but i just hope those people know he’s more than what he seems.

[ryodan]

Hey I don't ship sns so I don't really know what goes on but what do you mean by sns = sasuke exclusion and naruto wanking? Just a curious person over here 😅

I didn’t say SNS = Sasuke exclusion and Naruto wanking, I said it’s based off a lot of that. More so the shippers than the ship itself (But that’s really the case with sasuke in a lot of ships and that is why I don’t particularly associate with any shipping fandom..but sns takes the cake lol) . The fandom consists of mainly naruto uzumaki stans (and i love him!! I love the sunshine boy but no fav is perfect) with a blind sense of hero worship. They view Naruto as this untainted perfect guy who can do no wrong, that saved~ sasuke using the power of 

Like sasukes entire existence revolves around him, like he begins and ends with him, like he is the only thing that matters to him, like he is obsessed with him

(no matter how unhealthy that sounds lol), like sasuke as an entity can only exist codependent to naruto. It’s hard to articulate what point i am trying to get across but some examples I can think of at the top of my head 

-Something they bring up a lot ‘sasuke cared more about naruto than itachi in the reunion arc’ and it’s literally???? Sasuke, was of course worried to hear his best friend is target to a man who murdered his entire family but the entire volume (17) was filled with flashbacks of the time sasuke’s entire family was murdered. He headed towards itachi with his sharingan activated because of the sheer emotion caused by ‘that man’ being there. When he saw itachi it was blind rage and hurt because after all this itachi ignored him…and ofc we all know what happened next. It gets annoying seeing such a massive sasuke moment get turned into hE lOveS nAruTo sO mUCh. I don’t see Sasuke stans attempt to make Narutos rasengan scene about Sasuke?? Why is Sasuke getting mentally tortured turned into lOvE??

-They praise Naruto for the first fight and it’s like? How can you sleep on the fact that Naruto just told sasuke he would break every bone in his body to make him understand his feelings of wanting to bring him back…but it’s okay because he said he’s doing it beCauSe HE’s A fRiEnD. 

-’Sasuke wanted to kill Naruto because he is his oNLY frIEND the ONE he CaRES ABOUT THE MOST’ Naruto is Sasukes best friend, given fact. But Sasuke never showed any discrimination in how much he cares about the members of team 7..he loves all of them..any of them would have awakened mangekyo for him as shown when he awoke kagatsuchi during his Bee fight and the fact that whenever he thinks about team 7 he always thinks about all them is further proof. It’s like they are forgetting Sasuke just intended to leave the village quietly but both Sakura and Naruto chased him and he initially told them the exact same thing. ‘dont mind me anymore’ when Naruto attacked him first, sasuke was like ‘i have no choice do i, naruto?’ and bitch punched him into the valley. The fight at first was just a petty sasuke goading his strength to Naruto bc of Itachi’s ignoring towards him..and then escalated to his manipulated past leading him to want to kill Naruto bc the way to awake mangekyo (as he knew at the time) was to ‘kill your best friend’..something he didn’t do because ‘i will not be your puppet’ ‘i didnt want to obtain power doing it the way he told me to’ but nO it’s because he LoVes nAruto MorE tHan AnyThInG THats WHY he ChidOriED hIM and AlmOSt RyukA JUTsud HiM. I do think some factor of it was at the end he couldn’t kill his best friend while he was helpless, but sasuke doesn’t really lie about his feelings- he is pretty straight forward usually.

-They also praise naruto for the land of iron arc but that is arguably his worst moment. Sasuke having just fought danzo made the source of his distress very clear: the massacre’s truth, the massacre being thrown at his beloved older brother, and the way the Uchihas were treated in Konoha prior to the massacre. The moment I knew how much pain it was giving him was when he was shouting ‘how many uchihas did you kill in order to get that right arm?’

and here is where the issue comes in. Naruto knows the truth, Obito told him. Yet, when he seeks out Sasuke he tries to make the issue of genocide #relatable. oh sasook ik about loneliness too, did i tell u about the time i was sO alone??? Haha i could have been like u, nvm that ik about the curse of hatred and watch me not mention the issue of the mass genocide!11! Youre just angry bc u LOVE ur family : )

And his ass gets praised for it??? it’s so confusing??? He just ignored a national crime on behalf of his village (as an institute) and he gets away with it bc yOu are My fRiend

These are a few examples but I could go on. Idk if they self insert into sasuke, or use him to blindly wank their fav but it’s annoying enough to make me step away from the fandom. Like, chill mate its not that deep. it’s just anime, you don’t have to lie to yourself and keep saying sasuke/naruto hate _ and only love each other!11!! it’s very transparent and almost pathetic. No one ever choked from swallowing their pride and facts are facts even if you turn a blind eye. 

I still ship SNS by the way, it gets a pass because Naruto always tirelessly wanted to understand sasuke..he also wanted to end the cycle of hatred and stop history from repeating itself which is pretty noble. In terms of sasuke, growing up and seeing naruto trying to bond with people gave him hope and I think thats beautiful. The bond they share represents so many themes of the story, it’s kind of like they are a ‘it all leads to this’ type thing. Their dynamic is also hella cute and they had some cute ass moments as kids.The bond is also real deep, its like soul deep. The relationship itself is very unhealthy because theyre both insisting they are right and one of them tries to shove his opinion down the others throat and the other reacts violently to it. After it’s resolve its great tho so there we go it was worth it. I love sns despite how messy it is but the fandom has it’s hand far up it’s own ass and feeds itself its own bullshit. They claim they are ‘real’ fans and pretend they own this fictional ass guy yet use him to wank their fave..yet erase some of his most important bonds and character arcs to wank their fav. It’s ugly and i want no part of it.