#(and for rdr1 in general tbh) | Explore Tumblr posts and blogs

revswanson · 4 years ago

Text

red dead asks

questions to ask your rdr mutuals n favorite blogs, or to answer and fill out n post on your own (i’m going to!)

1. who do you think is a misunderstood or underrated character in the red dead series- why?

uncle for sure, I made a post about this already... Also, Jack, Abi, and John- all three of the Marstons are incredibly misunderstood. As for underrated, I think people do not talk about Tilly much at all but I think she is great.

2. what is your favorite TOWN or SETTLEMENT, and why? think of not only how pretty the town may be but the available amenities ie saloon, doctor, general, table games..

I love Saint Denis, truly, in every way. Just wish I could traverse it a bit faster. I love the dichotomies between rich and poor: the two saloons, the slums vs the mansions on main street... Chefs kiss.

3. ^ and what is your favorite state or region? Mexico areas from RDR1/Undead count…

Lemoyne is the best state because it has the prettiest locations to me, but I love Roanoke Ridge region too as it reminds me of my home state which it was clearly inspired by (Missouri).

4. which Stranger mission is your favorite? is your favorite Stranger in your favorite Stranger mission? (for example, one might love Charles Chatenay but thoroughly enjoy the Dragic missions more)

Albert Mason is my favorite Stranger, but I also love Chatenay and Francis Sinclair, too. The best missions are the Dragic missions though as they are thought provoking and unique, unexpected, etc. Legendary fish mission is cool too but just because the guy is funny and the fish are fun to catch.

5. favorite quote from the series?

"If you find yourself in a hole, stop digging."

6. what is your favorite non-story activity? hunting, fishing, herb gathering, greeting and watching people, sightseeing, swimming/boating…?

Sightseeing, watching people, and fishing. 🥰

7. why do you love red dead and what would you say you have legitimately learned from the series and will use in your life?

It makes me think and makes me feel. It makes me want to create (virtual photography and writing) and it has made me some pretty cool friends. It has taught me lessons about what makes somebody good or bad and how quickly someone can be perceived as either.

8. favorite time of day in game? favorite weather?

Sunrise/sunset. Best weather is right after it rains.

9. who is the most evil? cornwall, ross/milton/pinkertons, dutch/bill (rdr1), colm/other gangs, or micah/his men? who do you hate the most? do you empathize with or understand any of them?

They're all evil. They all represent evil. Greed, corruption, arrogance, unneeded violence... I hate Ross the most because of what he did to the Marstons and I hate corrupt cops more than most things in this world, tbh. But I think Cornwall is the most evil as he has the most power (money = everything, always) and is willing to use it.

10. least favorite mission or companion activity, why?

I find the stagecoach robberies boring, or whatever, I just don't like them

11. which activities, historical callbacks, etc would you have liked to have seen in the game that aren’t?

Edgar Allan Poe/mystery crime stories... Gold panning as a playable activity. Decorating camp more/decorating Beechers Hope. Petting cats!

12. does your favorite character die? do you think that their death is important and necessary for the story, or does it take away from the character for you?

Many of my favorites die but my main favorite, Jack, does not die in canon. I find that the deaths in the series are all fundamental and while incredibly sad, make the story what it is.

13. favorite legendary animal?

probably the Badger, is cute

14. favorite outfit: including trapper outfits?

every trapper outfit that looks like a bounty hunter outfit, or any outfit I can make piratey

15. least favorite/most unused weapon?

I don't really use my repeaters much unless the game makes me or for some hunting

16. which rdr mystery still plagues your mind? do you think it will ever be solved? what do you believe?

Strange Man- nothing really to solve though, he's just strange...

17. how do you allow for immersion within your own playstyle, or do you? (ie not doing certain things you don’t think Arthur would do, adhering to a certain level of realistic play [no fast travel, etc])

I don't go to Saint Denis until the story has you do it, I love the feeling of Arthur seeing the city for the first time? I also am a huge honor snob and if I lose honor either through a purposeful action or an accident, I try so hard to get it back lol. I also don't like antagonizing camp members except for Micah or Strauss, occasionally Dutch.

18. if you are currently or want to create art (written, drawn, etc) about or inspired by rdr, please tell us about it.. share it!

I'm working on a couple of fics... idk. I also have many virtual photography projects planned/that I want to work on

19. which gang is the scariest? most evil? most fun to dispose of?

Skinners are terrifying, Murfees are screwed up... I enjoy disposing of O'Driscolls and ESPECIALLY Lemoyne Raiders and Laramies.

20. favorite filter to use in photomode?

Twin Pass probably

21. favorite campfire song?

Poor Lonesome Cowboy

22. does honor matter to you? favorite way to either get more or to lose honor?

YES... I'm a huge high honor snob.. I'll throw back a bunch of fish or stroll through town and greet everybody. Donate to camp in cents...

23. would you eat any of the food in rdr2 saloons? which item on which menu looks the best to you?

oh yes. The prairie chicken or whatever at Blackwater saloon? YUM

24. which gang member’s horse do you wish to have yourself?

TRELAWNY'S!!! Or Sean's, Charles', or Old Boy (John's before Epilogue)

25. favorite hat you can find, create (trapper) or steal (NOT purchase).. including trapper hat ornaments..?

Tricorn hat. I also like the hat ornaments, or miner's hat

26. how many playthroughs have you had of rdr2?

I'm on my third, I completed 100% on my second

27. ^ did you ever play rdr1? how does that experience change the rdr2 experience, if at all?

Yes, I played it once after completing 100% in RDR2 as a reward to myself lol. It was great and playing the second game before the first was a totally unique experience. Knowing what I knew about the story before changed it all.

28. best rdr fanfiction you’ve read?

This great Albert and Arthur one on ao3, if you want it send me a message!

29. who is your favorite rdr blogger?

I hate that I put this question because I don't want to answer ahahaha I really love @foundynnel because they post super cool picture sets

30. what is something random you’ve been wanting to say but haven’t? a theory maybe, a comment on your favorite/least favorite ship.. let’s hear it.. hehe

Dutch and anybody is not a good ship. Nobody deserves to deal with his ass. Hosea and him definitely had/have a thing but I still don't ship it- does that make sense? I don't want them together, Dutch hurts Hosea... :( But people who ship Dutch and Mary Beth 🤢

13 notes · View notes

yeehawbfs · 6 years ago

Text

Man to Man Talk

Honestly, I don’t know. Au where RDR1 doesn’t happen and John gets to be A Dad (tm). This is something I just had fun writing tbh. It’s my first time actually posting what I write so like, be nice lmao. (Mentions of sexual content, underage drinking) Jack gets at that age where John thinks it’s time to have The Talk.

John had been tormenting himself for a few days now, and he knew that Jack was actively avoiding him. You see, John was unfortunate enough to go into the barn one afternoon after he and Abigail came back from doing some errands in Blackwater, and for an instant, he’d seen his son with a girl that Jack had introduced as a friend from the MacFarlane Ranch a few months ago now. This girl had come around a few times to make deliveries or some and pick up orders, being very polite and always a bit distant. Obviously, John had shut the barn door as soon as he had opened it, but there was no going back from seeing both teens making out. Maybe it was a construction of his mind, but at least, John was certain they were still clothed. Thank God. He had almost run inside to tell Abigail, but at the last second chose against it. Knowing his wife, she would have forbidden Jack from seeing any girl his age for the next 5 years, and John didn’t really want that for his son. But he did want him to be responsible, after all. The girl rushed home quietly soon after, John only hearing the sound of a galloping horse, and Jack then started avoiding him completely. Twice now, John had tried to stop Jack to talk, but Abigail or Uncle was always too nearby, and he didn’t want neither to intervene. “Jack, come with me will you? I need you for something, and bring your bedroll, we’ll only be back tomorrow morning,” he said, walking into the room with the fireplace, where Abigail was sowing something back together and Jack was reading. “Oh you know Pa’, I’d rather-” Jack started but he was cut off by his mother. “Come on Jack, it’s been quite a while since you helped your father you. Now, listen to him and go,” the woman said, before looking at John fondly. John grinned internally, knowing his plan had worked. Abigail loved seeing Jack and John do things together to allow Jack to worm out of the situation.

“But--” the boy started and Abigail snapped again. “Git!” she shooed him off, and Jack just grunted in complaint, reluctantly closing his book and getting up. His steps were slow and clearly unwilling, and John just pat his shoulder. John went and kissed Abigail goodbye, promising it was just a camping trip, father and son, to teach Jack how to put up a camp and whatnot. Abigail reminded him to come back safe, and John promised.

Not long after, John and Jack were on their horses, trotting away from Beecher’s Hope and into Tall Trees. Honestly, now that he had this opportunity, he didn’t know where to start, so he decided to chat as little as possible during the ride, which Jack seemed more than happy to do as well. It was only when the sun was shining out it’s last rays, and the campfire was consuming bigger logs to get a good heat for heating up cans that John finally cleared his throat. “You know we’ve got to talk about it, son,” John started, glancing at Jack who was looking down at his feet, his hand playing with some bundle of leaves he’d picked up to occupy his nervous hands. “Dunno what you’re talking about, sir,” Jack mumbled. John sighed. “You know just what I’m talking about. This Rose girl, from the MacFarlane ranch. Or just… girls in general,” the man waved his hand. A few seconds passed, and with no answers from Jack, John continued. “I ain’t gonna tell you to keep it in your pants, or to pretend like you don’t know exactly what I’m talking about, because I remember being 16 years old. I remember wanting to wash my own bed clothes and sheets,” John again looked at Jack, only to see him wince, obviously now feeling like a fool for thinking he could get away with something like that. John almost laughed. Almost. “Anyway, you just… gotta be careful, son. You’ll see it feels much better than your own hand ever will, so you got to make sure to stay in control,” John started, and decided it was not time to stop now, despite Jack opening his mouth to ask his father to stop talking about this. “No matter how warm it feels, just, don’t finish inside,” John laughed nervously. “Just don’t, because no matter what your ma’ told you, babies don’t come from storks.” Jack made a disgusted face “Now I regret being born and having to have this conversation,” he said out loud, mostly to himself. “Well son, you were born because it really did feel warm and nice, and I was a fool and I finished inside your--” John started, seriously before Jack just yelled. “Shut up! Don’t say another word!” Both started at each other in silence, surprised by Jack’s sudden boldness. The teen felt like his face was burning off, and he managed to murmur an apology, which John accepted with a nod and a swing of a bottle of whiskey, which he then suggested to Jack who hesitated, before seeming to say ‘fuck it’ and took it. The boy started coughing and grimacing at the taste, which made John laugh. Probably out of pride, Jack took another, this time forcing himself to power through it, which made John laugh again. Despite it all, Jack did really remind him of himself around the same age, only smarter and with more ambition. “What I’m really saying is, don’t get a girl pregnant before you are married, and especially not this girl, because I fear if your mother learns she’s gon’ be a grand’ma’ at her age, she’s gonna execute us both,” John took back the bottle, already seeing a little effect of the strong alcohol in Jack’s posture. “I don’t- We’re not- I’m-” Jack started, not seeming to find the right words in the right order, and he just gave up. “Fine, I’ll listen to the advice you never followed yourself, as always” Jack rolled his eyes. “Hey!” John scolded, and Jack just laughed a bit. “If we never talk about this again, I won’t tell ma’ that you gave me whiskey,” Jack grinned, now leaning back on his hands confidently. John squinted skeptically. “Fine, I can tell you how to please a woman another time then,” he conceded. “Dad, God, no, please, no,” Jack looked actually scared and John laughed, and soon after Jack started laughing, if only a bit nervously at first.

#hhhhhh im feeling bold #wrote this last night and i liked it #i have uuhhhhhh 6 chapter arthur self insert but im still to aaaaaa to post it #but im love jack and john #john is not the best dad out there #but he's TRYING #also im not letting rdr1 happen nuh huh #so consider this an au #jack marston #john marston #rdr2 fandom #red dead fanfic #one shot #abigail marston #red dead redemption #red dead redemption 2

44 notes · View notes

sunshinexlollipops · 6 years ago

Note

heyyyy! loving acw and i’ve been meaning to ask this for a while but i keep forgetting- what do D’or and Bedwyr look like? your descriptions are great and I can definitely see them in my head, I guess i’m just curious if you based them off any horses in game or pics irl!

Hey there, @alixmayhew!

I’m here to answer this question with so much excitement— I love Arthur and Wolf��s horses to BITS N’ PIECES, OKAY?

As for D’or, she is based off of an in-game horse: the amber champagne Missouri Fox Trotter. (Available at the Scarlet Meadows stable in chapter 4.)

Except, instead of having brown, shaggy hair, D’or has straight white hair that’s long. Her hair should be longer than what I have pictured below, but tbh, the “long” hair for a horse looks a little rough to me in-game, so I just do a “short” cut.

After 3.4 however, her mane is braided from where Jack helped groom her at the beginning of that update! :)

Bedwyr is a little different but he also has ties to another in-game horse, but this time from RDR1.

I got the inspiration to take advantage of some of the abused horses you can find milling about with the Murfree Brood up in Roanoke Ridge, as well as a battered horse known as either the “Low Honor Horse” or “Dark Horse” John will earn in RDR1 if his honor is the lowest it can be.

I didn’t notice (bc I’m dumb ok) until someone mentioned it, but the “Low Honor/Dark Horse” from RDR1 looks a lot like Baylock, Micah’s horse.

To combat this a little (bc honestly it would be awkward to have two completely silimiar horses for Arthur and Micah), I wrote about Bedwyr’s scarring (which takes up most of the front of his face and by his left or right eye, alongside mottled skin that takes up his neck and flanks from where he had cuts and other injuries inflicted on him by his previous owner.

I also surprised us with an additional breed, as he was written to be a Missouri Fox Trotter (RIP to all of the breed suggestions everyone wrote in and I just wrote off imhorribleokay). I mixed him with another breed not seen in the game: Friesian.

Because of this breed, Bedwyr is bigger than an average Trotter in both height and mass. His hair, now since grown for a bit since Arthur got him in Valentine, has a curly appearance alongside the hair at his hooves being grown or and wavy.

He’s almost a three class horse: work, race, and war— which I think is a perfect combo for what Arthur is looking for from his steed.

I drew Bedwyr as how he was found in Valentine when Arthur snagged him at the stable for Inktober as well!

Hope this answered your question! If you have any more about these babes or ACW in general, you’re more than welcome to send another ask!

I can go on and on about ACW, lol. Don’t tempt me. 😭

#d’or #bedwyr #acw #amidst a clash of worlds #luffy asks #these horses #are mah babies okay

10 notes · View notes

squidproquoclarice · 6 years ago

Text

Thinking of New Austin, and the argument that the Epilogue was probably originally Arthur’s (which you fine folk know I agree with, TBH), I have to also say I think the New Austin portions were set earlier than 1907. Given what we see in 1911 in RDR1, it makes a lot more sense for most of New Austin to be closer to 1899 than 1911.

Because I don’t think 4 years’ difference is enough for some of what we see. Tumbleweed changes a lot, and the wear on some of the buildings, the bridge, etc., seems like it would take longer than 4 years of decay, particularly in an arid desert. Armadillo probably needs more than 4 years to recover from being a cholera-scoured ghost town and hive of lawlessness to a thriving center of the region. Thieves’ Landing probably needs more than 4 years to become a wretched hive of scum and villainry rather than a few ramshackle shacks. The railroad construction probably took longer than 4 years too. MacFarlane’s Ranch probably needed more than 4 years to grow and get the new construction. So what I propose would have been the likely Epilogue I/New Austin portion of an Arthur epilogue, and probably some of what I’m doing in Sunrise, is that the New Austin we see is c. 1901ish Arthur went south and is (mostly) recovered, and is bounty hunting and the like with Sadie. Armadillo is laid low by a cholera epidemic. Tumbleweed is slowly fading even more. Thieves’ Landing is starting to become a criminal hotspot. Overall, the Del Lobos are getting a stronghold on the territory, and New Austin is lawless, probably highly dependent on bounty hunters to get anything done, and generally struggling mightily. (Leigh Johnson clearly has his hands full.) And then we skip to 1907, and we pick up with Epilogue II, focusing around Blackwater, Beecher’s Hope, John’s finally settling down, and finding Micah. The New Austin region is still recovering, but most of the Del Lobos have been broken by now and scattered--ergo why we end up hunting members of that gang at places strangely far-flung from New Austin and Nuevo Paraiso like Painted Sky and Dewberry Creek. This also allows a void for the established 1911 gangs like Bill’s gang, Waltons, and the Bollard Twins to step into and take over.

#rdr2 #rdr2 epilogue #arthur morgan #john marston #rdr2 timeline #sadie adler

30 notes · View notes

enturmoiled-blog · 6 years ago

Note

i've craaaved seeing rdr1 threads around here man! so awesome to read your recent thread i'm in awe. is rdr1 or 2 more fascinating to you?

hey thanks!! i’m always up for rdr threads, but it’s a hard verse to make work for everyone given the plot constraints.

tbh when i first played rdr, i got halfway through the mexican civil war arc and lost interest? i eventually watched a let’s play for the rest of the story, and enjoyed what i had missed more than what i’d actually experienced myself ( with a few strong reservations ), so take that as you will. regardless, i agree with the general consensus that rdr2 improves on rdr’s formula immensely.

at the same time, i definitely feel that rdr2 makes rdr more interesting on the replay? partially because john ( & co. ) becomes a lot more interesting, which is why this question doesn’t get a simple “rdr2 is more fascinating bc xyz”. 🤷‍♂️

#( i usually gravitate towards dynamic characters #and because of the thematic conflict of man vs. change which defines much of rdr #john has to be static in order for the clash to be as impactful as it is.#[ though lbr most of the characters are static besides jack. ]#so playing thru rdr was a bit of a drag for me bc there were all these allusions to john's metamorphosis from Bad Man to Ok Farmer Man #but no real meat imo.#with rdr2 fleshing out john's past /and/ personality [ coping mechanisms esp ] as well as it does #i find rdr a lot easier to sink my teeth into.#and i also think that rdr has a stronger thesis to it. but i do prefer rdr2 just for all the heavy-lifting it does?#and i'm more partial to arthur so. yeah djsfkjsl )#( miscellaneous ╱ outofchara. )

5 notes · View notes

reddead2photos · 3 years ago

Note

This was very on point! Great analysis. I'll add my own ramble under here. I feel like this could really get a discussion going. These two have a very complex relationship that always sparked my interest, like many things in the RDR2 story.

Personally I think the century (or rather, centuries, but tbh there's not much different between the very late 1800's and the very early 1900's) that RDR2 and RDR1 take place in help(s) put their relationship dynamic into context, because at the time relationships that we today would consider "toxic" were deemed "normal", if at most a little odd. Arguments were normal, fights were normal, hell, beating your wife or child was not only okay, but in some(most) cultures encouraged.

I think that the general perception of relationships at the time gave John and Abigail more reasons to remain together- despite their differences- than to split up.

Teen pregnancies were common, and in most cases, since abortion was not a safe/"moral" option, and being an only mother was not great for the woman's image, the father of the pregnant girl would hold the man responsible at gun point until he agreed to marry her. Of course, Abigail didn't have that, and John wasn't about that parent life, so their conflict ensues, but it was not a drama so uncommon that the outcome wouldn't be predictable. They argued, but they remained together, because that's what lovers do. You would choose someone (usually the first person of the opposite sex that you layed eyes on, but there's examples of that not being always the case I guess), and you would stay with them until death do you part, or else you were unfaithful. Even for a gang of misfits, they still held onto some of the values people had at the time, which is understandable, because it is impossible to shed all of what society has taught you.

But, at the end of the day, who else could they turn to? One's friend circle was a lot smaller at that time, and a wanderer's would've been even smaller. Given that they couldn't really settle down anywhere while riding with Dutch, staying together was the best decision they could make in terms of their romantic life.

Imagine the looks they would get from the rest of the gang upon splitting up, too. Mostly sad, but some would be judgemental (especially Arthur towards John, I reckon, since he's very vocal about how he disagrees with John's decision to neglect his wife and son). All that drama wasn't worth the effort in their eyes, I think. Relationships at the time were more about safety and less about love, and although Dutch's gang didn't live by the rules of the many, these rules definitely shaped some of their opinions. The impact of societal norms upon an individual is inevitable, as I stated before. They create beliefs that one would have a very hard time letting go of or changing, if doing that ever crosses their mind at all. Why would you aim to change something that you've been told is common and normal. Why change your diet, for example, when your current one isn't doing you any harm, as far as you're concerned?

I'm not here to say that "it's okay, it was a different time" but rather to add to everything that you've already said. John and Abigail were very much a Product of that time, whether it was Objectively Wrong or Right is a different story. Either way, Red Dead makes no effort Justifying their relationship, only presenting it fully (or, well, as fully as it can, since so far we've only seen bits and pieces of it's early stages).

I'm sure this is all a pretty stupid argument to make, because of course they're a product of their time, but I think it puts things into perspective. They didn't act this way because they had ill intentions towards each other. They acted this way because they lived in a land that didn't have the same definition of morality as we do, and although Dutch tries to make a community better and more progressive than it was usual in the 1800's, he falls short in some aspects. Not that you should expect anything else. It would be impossible to replicate even a quarter of modern American Values at that time (well, depending on how you define "American values"). In order to incorporate Dutch's gang into the story fully, the writers even made some changes into how some of the characters are treated. First examples that come to mind are Lenny, Tilly and Javier. They face racism (and in Tilly's case, misogyny) very often, but seeing them enter a bar without any issue in a town like Valentine is very surprising given the historical context. So, they've already bent the rules the time period has given them in terms of racial conflict (if only a little), and they had no reason to do the same for John and Abigail's relationship as far as I can tell. What RDR tries very hard to do is to stay true to the century they're representing, and I think none of the characters are truly the epitome of morality, at the end of the day. They're people wanting to do the best they can in a world that doesn't quite allow that. They're flawed in a very human way, which I think is what made me love the game so much. None of these people are exactly role models, but they're shaped by the cruel world they lived in, which makes them great characters and seeing them evolve (or devolve) makes the story intriguing.

I hope you don't take this as criticism or anything. As a neurodivergent myself, (and also a non-native English speaker) I got a few problems with how my tone comes across in writing. This is all my attempt to add more to your point of view. I consider everything you said so far to be true and this is my attempt to geek out while also appreciating your analysis and putting it into perspective. I've derailed a little bit from the John/Abigail situation to appreciate the game and characters in general, hope you don't mind. The bigger picture really makes the finer details make sense, if you know what I'm trying to say. I'm getting repetitive, so I'll stop here, but yours and anon's opinions were nice to read and I wanted to participate. Hope I didn't do a bad job.

Hi! This is gonna be a long message about Abigail's and John's relationship because I have (neurodiverse) issues with understanding it. If anything of the following things I'm about to write seem offensive, I'm very open to criticism and will learn from it!

Alright, I have two points I sort of want to talk about. 1st one being Abigail's and John's relationship in general, like do their personalities, life goals or morals fit together? Would it have been better if John and Abigail went their separate ways? etc. My 2nd point would be Abigail being pregnant with Jack and asking John to be a father to him. I'm not sure if that's just a me thing, but I find it weird that she kept on pushing him and asking him which she did have a right to do but still.

What basically confuses me with the pregnancy is if it's known what exactly their first thoughts were. I think Abigail mentioned in a clip where she was drunk that Jack ruined her dreams and her life. So I'd assume she was not ready at all to be a mother and just, kept Jack because she might've felt guilty leaving or aborting him (no idea if abortions existed in 1895). I'm not sure if John ever said anything similar to that about Jack, or if he even told Abigail that he has 0 interest in being a father.

Now I don't know how other's see it, but I think if a parent has no interest in being one, then they should be allowed to not be one. So if John clearly stated that he didn't want to be a father, I think it's weird Abigail kept pushing him, especially considering they're in a gang with plenty of other masculine figures for Jack to look-up (Hosea would've been a way better influence as John anyways). So I basically see Abigail as bit as manipulative and abusive IF John told her a clear no to being a father. If he never clearly said if he wanted to be a father or not then I still find the constant pushing weird and lowkey abusive (especially the slap in Clemens Point).

No worries at all anon! I’m neurodivergent too, so I totally understand how hard it can be to understand relationship dynamics and social situations in general. I’ll try and explain this the best that I can!! (Below the cut as this is a bit long)

1.) Do Abigail and John’s life goals fit together, and should they have gone their separate ways?

I think they kind of went through cycles. Back when they were first together, when Abigail was 18 and John 20 or 21, I don’t think it mattered very much. Both of them were on the fringes of society, and neither saw themselves leaving that at any point. At that point in time, I think it’s safe to say their goals (survive and be as happy/free as they can be) lined up.

Once Abigail got pregnant, things changed. At that point, I don’t even think she herself knew what she wanted, much less John. Him leaving took a huge toll on her. This was the first point I think their goals began to diverge, and they stayed that way until around chapter 4 of rdr2. Then, they once more became similar, if even (what I’m sure both assumed to be) but temporarily: get Jack back alive and safe. Once Jack does come back, the two begin to work on their relationship more, and their goals shift to trying to be together in harmony, both as a couple and as a family. In chapter 6, this includes leaving the gang and carving out a life for themselves.

We don’t know much about Abigail and John’s relationship from 1900-1907. We know that they went to Canada for a few months, they spent some time in Roanoke Ridge, and wandered around the country in general. My guess is that they once more went through periods of their goals un-aligning and then realigning themselves. At the start of the epilogue we learn John killed a man, forcing the Marstons to leave Roanoke Ridge in a hurry and upsetting Abigail. She does quickly agree to try and settle back down in West Elizabeth though, so I doubt their goals had strayed too far. They both still wanted the best for their family, but in different ways. Abigail wanted to settle down, while John wanted to keep wandering. To him, where he was didn’t matter as long as he was with his wife and son, which is in contrast to Abigail, who wanted a more traditional life. At the end of the day, they both care about each other. They’ve been together for years, they have soft spots for each other, and they want their family to be happy.

As we see in game, Abigail ends up leaving John when he begins going after the Laramie Boys. While I don’t think she ever really gave him time to explain why he was doing what he was doing, a part of me also gets it; he’d just killed a man and uprooted their lives, after all. Seeing John get violent and risk his life once more, after he promised he’d try and be better for Abigail, made it seem to her like he didn’t care about her and Jack at all, and everything he was telling her was just lip service.

By the start of part 2 of the epilogue, it’s pretty clear that the two are on the same page again as to what they want: a peaceful life at Beecher’s Hope. That want continues for the rest of their relationship.

As for whether I think they should have stayed together, I don’t know. As much as I adore their relationship by the end of rdr2 and all throughout rdr1, there is no denying that for many years, it was unhealthy if not downright toxic at times. I do get why Abigail struggled to move on from John even while he treated her horribly (I’ll explain this later) but I do think it would be been better for both of them to find other people even if for the short term while their relationship was rocky. Exploring that possibility is really fun!

2.) Abigail’s pregnancy

I know some people think Abigail purposefully got pregnant to “trap John”, because as a former prostitute she would know how to prevent pregnancy, but I really don’t think that’s the case. Sometimes, no matter how cautious you usually are, sometimes people forego precautions because they don’t think anything could happen to them. (Plenty of babies are born this way even today, hell, my sister was an born as a result of exactly what I described above.) Even if they did use protection and precautions, sometimes those things fail, so that’s also a possibility. We don’t know enough about their sex life to be able to say with certainty just how Jack came to be. It’s extremely OOC for Abigail to try and force a pregnancy to keep John with her as well. I don’t buy this theory for a second.

I find Abigail’s drunken rants to be one of the saddest, but equally most engaging parts of her character. She didn’t want to be a mother, Jack wasn’t planned, girl was 18 or 19 when she had him and her entire life was uprooted as a result. The man she loved and the father of her child left her and treated her with animosity upon his return. She’s lonely and stressed out at camp, of course she’s going to be unhappy. As for abortions, yes they existed, but were a.) illegal (thanks Comstock Laws!) and b.) very, very unsafe as a result of their illegality and the medical technology available at the time. Even if Abigail somehow knew where to find someone who could perform the procedure, chances are she would end up seriously injured if not dead from it. Even in a world where abortion was available and safe, there’s no saying that Abigail could have mentally gone through that, not even just because she could have felt guilty.

John not wanting to be a father makes sense. It’s not like Abigail wanted to be a mother either. Thing is, it takes two to make a baby, and John ultimately needed to own up to his responsibility. It’s not right and/or fair for Abigail to be Jack’s sole parent just because John doesn’t feel like it. Not even just in their case, but in any case, be it 100 years ago or today, it’s not right to leave the mother out to dry like that. Abigail didn’t want to be a mom anymore than John wanted to be a dad, so what should she have done, just thrown Jack at someone else and said “here, take care of him for me!”? If it wouldn’t be right for her to do that, why should it be alright for John to?

Picture if you were in Abigail’s position. Even if you were surrounded by other good male role models, the father of your kid is right there and is refusing to take responsibility for his son because he would rather not. Even if people like Hosea are good with Jack, they aren’t John. They shouldn’t have to take over his responsibility of fathering his child.

I can understand why someone in your shoes could think it’s toxic or manipulative of Abigail to try and force John to parent. The reason this isn’t the case though is because Jack is still John’s responsibility, whether he likes it or not. As said previously, it takes two to make a child, and John running away from it because he “doesn’t want to parent” isn’t an excuse. To put it very analytically, Jack is the consequence of John’s actions, and he needs to own up to it. If he and Abigail had broken something of Dutch’s and got caught, it would be both of their responsibilities to clean it up. Would it be right of John to leave it all for Abigail just because he would rather go and sing with Javier while she works on cleaning up and replacing what she broke?

As for the slap, there is no excuse. Doesn’t matter how horribly John was treating Abigail, insisting Jack wasn’t his and leaving her to the extremely hard work or parenting on her own, you don’t resort to physical violence, period.

If you’re wondering why Abigail and John were still drawn to each other even after everything, the answer is that humans aren’t always logical. Emotions are the exact opposite of logic, and we can’t always easily quantify what it is that we want. If you asked Abigail why she still cared about John and cried by his side during chapter 1 of rdr2, when he was rude and dismissive to her, I doubt she’d have been able to tell you. She probably didn’t know for herself.

Abigail wasn’t abusive to John by asking him to parent. She was asking him to take responsibility, as it was unfair to both her and Jack to do otherwise. Additionally, the two had very complex feelings for each other that, even if don’t logically make sense, were palpable nonetheless.

I hope I was able to help a bit, and I’m sorry if I over explained anything in a way that’s rude. Part of my neurodivergence is struggling to know how to explain things in manners that are socially correct. I’d be happy to answer any other questions you may have!

#text #long post #i speak my mind on stuff sometimes #i know none of my followers are here for that but #yall get what you get #i really couldnt help myself lol #the nerd jumped out #also if any of this doesnt make sense im okay explaining myself #i know i get confusing sometimes so its all good

43 notes · View notes