#1863rd regression

[froggos-are-superior]

euuuurgghhhh there's something about dokja getting upset with the sooyoung of the 1863rd regression for manipulating her teammates to get the ending she desires when dokja is doing the exact same thing in the 3rd regression

[hashbrowne08]

Spoilers for the epilogue

I love how daytime hsy sees "kim dokja" commenting on every episode and thinks "wow naming your alt account "reader" huh? Really subtle"

Where as nighttime hsy just sees it and goes "nooo you naive child don't name your account your full name!"

[hashbrowne08]

The best (and most tragic part) is that this could be either of their perspectives, hsy has known him as the commentor and kdj has known her as the author/ has know 1863 as his hsy

Also reality club makes good music, I'd also recommend "is it the answer"

the ONE time i let a random song play omfg 1863 DOKSOO HOLY SHIEETTT...the cigarettes doksoo scene i gotta end myself

Its called anything you want by reality club btw haha

[rlaehrwk21]

he would not fucking say that, but he is suffering from depression and deep-seated trauma, so he does now

[jamiethebee]

[ ORV novel spoilers ]

The more I think about 0th turn Yoo Joonghyuk the more batshit I get about the whole thing

Like. Sir!!!! Sir!!! What do you MEAN your curiosity was enough to say you'll suffer so much pain and heartbreak all for a chance to maybe meet some guy that's been by your side for 40 years???? Like, you're happy, you have a good life, (you're aging, while everyone around you stays the same), you have your companions and love and as near perfect an ending as you'll get, and you will throw it all away to /maybe/ have an off chance to meet some guy?!?!? And then I think about how much he hates the constellations later but he's in this mess because he so wanted to meet one of those constellations. I'm actually going to lose it over him. I thought this while reading ORV and I'm thinking it now - I would read Ways of Survival, I need something, anything from YJH's perspective, I need to know more about this man and his thoughts and everything because What Do You Mean. Throwing away everything - everything! For not even a guarantee???? And you're loved enough that said person will give you that, despite knowing what you'll go through, because it's your choice and who is he to stop you and ooooh ooooo. Oooh.

(Like I have plenty of thoughts about why YJH would choose it, so many, but I'm putting those thoughts aside to keep this post somewhat contained. The premise of his choice just.... These guys.)

[ellsellmesoull]

The fact that Yoo Joonghyuk found the strength to continue the regressions in a vague hope of meeting Kim Dokja again TWICE

[hashbrowne08]

Yeah!

Like I'm obsessed with how they interacted in the 1863rd regression where yeh they bickered yeh she didn't seem to like him but kmw took kdj's advice, he got rid of the bandages, he tried to tone down his attitude and in response jihye acts kinder

And there's a small moment after he gets back where jihye looks at kdj's phone(which he took from kmw) and asks "who am I in that selfie with"

It's tragic they should have been friends

ok thoughts about Lee Jihye and the absence of Kim Namwoon

It's smth that never really factors in the novel, which makes sense considering they have way bigger things going on and LJH is often used as a comic relief character. But something that I think about often is how isolated LJH must've felt in kimcom. Younger than the adults and dismissed by them as a child, but older than the kids and not being able to really openly talk with them. And of course she had meaningfull relationships with kimcom, she had her captain and the older women to look up to, and she was often goofing around with the children. But still, I think when your a teenage girl it is very important to have someone your age to confide in. And I just think about the juxtapostition of her mostly doing childish stuff with the kids and then often sneaking alcohol on her own. And with the terrible way she lost her best friend, I just think LJHs lack of peers her age, lack of people she can confide in about just the oridinary problems of being a teenager, really impacted her developmentally and must've affected her social abillities and emotional maturity on a very real level.

And the thing is. Lee Jihye was supposed to have that. She was supposed to have Kim Namwoon as her peer to bicker with and confide in and sneak alcohol with. And the crazy thing is she doesn't even know! She doesn't even know she had someone, that the her in every other timeline managed to have close bonds with someone her equal, even after what she had done, even with everything going on. She had someone and she doesn't even know it was robbed of her.

[headphonemouse]

Incredibly sexy of Han Sooyoung to have been the one out of the trio to have died the least but also the only one to ever have been in the vicinity of her own dead body

[tls12lessthan3]

rereading the 1863rd arc and like. its so crazy to me how kim dokja spends so much of orv going ok 1863rd yoo joonghyuk is a monster hes a man driven insane by an incalculable amount of suffering he's so cruel just too far gone basically not even human and then he meets him and kim dokjas immediately like. trying to save his life. stroking his hair. giving him the first good nights rest since the regressions started. telling him to 'remember happy things'. planning to stay in the 1863rd round just to help him. and i don't think this is a case of kim dokja not understanding how 'evil' or dangerous this yoo joonghyuk is i think this is a case where he fully knows but can't stop himself from feeling pity and care and understanding like. he truly loves every version of yoo joonghyuk no matter what! he just can't help it!

[orphiclovers]

I think what would greatly benefit everyone's understanding of orv's worldbuilding is a passing aquaintance with the Cthulhu wiki. and this is the one and only case where the wiki is a BETTER source of information than the original works by Lovecraft, because the Cthulhu mythos is a "collaborative writing shared universe" and who's worldbuilding is vague and contradictory between authors. think Maurauders fandom or SCP foundation, only more classy than fanfiction.

Anyway, ORV takes a lot from the Cthulhu mythos, because it takes a lot from every myth in the world. The whole Outer God thing will make a lot more sense if you know what its supposed to be, the same way its easier to understand the Olympus constellations if you know the greek gods and their myths. The Majority of characters in orv are real mythological or historical figures and the outer gods are no different, I and maybe you are just less familiar with them.

Heres a small glossary of relevant information:

1. "great old ones" are sometimes mentioned in orv as spying on Kim Dokja, and mentioned by other Outer Gods as the most powerful beings. they're from the lovecraft stories.

They are "beyond imagination" i.e beyond Oldest Dream's Star Stream/the universe comprehended by humans and exist outside of it.

2. "The Great One" is what outer gods in ORV call the Oldest Dream. He seems to be the only Great One in the orv universe, but In the myths there are multiple and are described like this.

Gods of the dreamlands->oldest dream the connection is there. Take notice of how the Great One is protected by Nyarlathotep, hes important.

3. Have you ever wondered what was up with those "Shantaks" living in N'gai forest? These are from the myths too.

They have horse head like in orv and Nyarlathotep rules over/is allied with them.

4. The Nameless Mist that attacks the 73rd demon realm and causes KDJ to sign the outer god contract with SP and get sent to 1863rd round is also an Outer God from the myths. Specifically, it is one of Nyarlathotep's siblings.

5. Best for last, there is of course Nyarlathotep himself i.e The Crawling Chaos i.e Secretive Plotter.

Kim Dokja straight up thinks that SP is Nyarlathotep and calls him that to his face. he is right. While SP "neither confirms or denys being the Crawling Chaos/Nyarlathotep" he obviously...is him. (SP lies about his identity a lot. but this time he didnt even say he WASNT, just that it doesnt matter and to call him SP please). SingShong basically plagiarised everything about him completely from lovecraft

First of all, in their first meeting SP looks like a black shadow person with glowing white eyes, which is why Kim Dokja drew the conclusion that he was Nyarlathotep, since this is how he looks too

Nyarlathotep is the avatar of other outer gods an has a clear personality and is more rational and human than the rest (KDJ says this bout SP too)- he hates his masters (like SP hates his sponsor).

Kim Dokja once says that SP is like no other outer god because he actually speaks human language and can communicate clearly and rationally. Nyarlathotep is the only outer god who can do that and is the messager of them.

The event referenced here where Nyarlathotep causes people to go insane is mentioned in ORV too, as SP talked to the Recorders of Fear and drove them to insanity. He has darkness powers and knows the future of the universe that no one else does.

He looks like a human being and has a thousand different forms (like the different regressions).

He can shapeshift and possess people (SP does both. shapeshifts into YJH and possesses him)

Also as previously mentioned he protects the Great One (OD) and rules over Shantaks in the forest. On top of looking exactly like Nyarlathotep and having the same abilities as him and the same role and traits and literally getting told "You are Nyarlathotep" by Kim Dokja I think it is pretty safe to say that he IS Nyarlathotep.

Also, the reason why KDJ thinks SP can beat The Nameless Mist and calls him is because he thinks that is SP's/Nyarlathotep's sister. which is just kind of funny to me. go get your sibling dude its eating my planet

[dokjaphd]

to love is to look back. when eurydice was behind, orpheus looked back. when kim dokja remained on that train, han sooyoung and yoo joonghyuk looked back. yoohankim is love at its most tragic but also love at its most beautiful, bc no matter what, even when kim dokja thinks he’s not deserving of such devotion, han sooyoung and yoo joonghyuk will always look back. from the 0th regression all the way to han sooyoung in the 1863rd regression. it’s a story that’ll loop forever bc love isn’t linear or rational or easily explained away. they love each other in a way so complete and circular that it can be felt over and over again.

[lunaxstrange]

Can we talk about love in orv?

[SPOILERS]

Okay so, I am aware that Kdj loves the "story" but I really wanna point some things out individually because it's 2am and ORV is on my mind.

Kdj had the easiest way out of the 1863rd turn. The most perfect turn (at the time) but he really went I'd let the world burn for Yjh? Yeah, everything is "part of his plan" but let's talk about the 73rd Demon King arc. My man would do anything to make sure Yjh finishes his story. Apart from this, it's the fact that while everyone else dislike any other version of Yjh (even he hates himself lol), Kdj loves every. single. one. I mean 3rd turn (1864th) Yjh? Yes. Hsy's 1863rd turn? Yes. Frickin' Secretive Plotter? Got off to a rough start but yes. You simply cannot make Kdj hate his beloved protagonist. I mean, this man risked his whole existence to make sure the 0th turn is actually the most perfect one. He didn't want Yjh to regress but became his sponsor anyway because it's what Yjh wanted. He would do anything to see Yjh happy. This type of love isn't romantic or platonic or anything else, it's the most inexplicable form of love. Love in its purest form. I'd like to take the time to compare it to Achilles and Patroclus because while we can fight over whether these two were gay or not, we cannot deny the sheer love they had for each other. No strings attached. Kdj is in awe of Yjh.

Yjh. The regressor. The protagonist. The person Kdj loves the most. Yjh had everything (0th turn) but he really gave it all up just to meet Kdj. Suffered the "Hell of eternity" just to see him. Bro didn't even love Lsw the way he loves Kdj. Tbf, 0th turn Yjh didn't know what the real struggle of passing the scenarios without help was but I'm sure he got the gist. Okay, sure, you can call it "curiosity" that led to Yjh keeping Kdj alive during the 3rd (1864th) turn. But my guy didn't choose Kdj to go to Peace Land because he had "someone he loved" like bro, YJH!? THE COLD REGRESSOR??? HE DID THAT FOR KIM DOKJA! Not to mention the fact that Yjh didn't even care that his whole life was a mere novel. He just despised the fact that Kdj chose the 1863rd turn over him. I'm gonna cry. Bro wanted Kdj so bad that he kept fighting the Secretive Plotter. Not only this, he gave up the 3rd (1864th) turn for Kdj too. Went from Supreme King to terrorist just to save Kdj. When everyone else - even Hsy - gave up. After all, what is a protagonist without a reader? The whole astronaut ordeal might've been to "find his purpose" but we can't ignore their connection. He gave up everything he could ever ask for twice (0th and 3rd/1864th turn) for Kdj. The attachment these two have with each other is insane.

I could go on about them for eternity but we have another person to talk about - Hsy. This woman spent 10 years exhausted, stuck in a world-line and body not her own for one person. Even if it's only Hsy with half her memories, she gave up her perfect world-line because she missed Kdj. Just like Kdj loves Yjh, Hsy also loves every version of Kdj. She wanted to meet him, no matter what the world-line. My girl had only a few hours where she was in control and decided to use off all those hours to write TWSA - a story she herself disliked. Hsy wants to see Kdj happy, every part of Hsy loves Kdj. There is nothing a writer could love more than an avid reader who loves their story. And let's talk about the fact that Yjh and Hsy absolutely hate each other. He is literally her creation (more or less) but their relationship is questionable. Why? Because a protagonist has no value without a reader. Kinda like Asuka Ren and Kyrgios Rodgraim. They have no special relationship despite being creator and creation. Since there is no reader, Asuka and Kyrgios are as distant as two people can be. Alternatively, what brings Hsy and Yjh together is Kdj.

I just can't get enough of the way ORV relationships are written. If I had to describe love as a writer, I'd cite ORV as an example.

[keakiwis]

thank you yoo sangah for being the n1 girls girl because i know you’re the type of girl to help another girl out at the bar, also for sacrificing yourself for kim dokja’s mom, and for dealing with the stupid men at your work (also a respecter of decisions, seen in the epilogue, dokja gotta say thank you for not ratting him out)

thank you jung heewon for being one of kdj’s most dedicated members after hsy and yjh until the end because i know its def hard after dokja sacrifices himself every time but you still will do what he asks

thank you lee seolhwa for being the glorious healer that you are and keeping everyone alive, you deserved another regression version of you (yes i’m still on this)

thank you jang hayoung for being a dkos fanatic and my favorite second protagonist ily and i think it’d also be cool if we got another regression version of you or how yjh met you in other regressions

thank you lee jihye for being relatable, funny, and taking care of lee gilyoung and shin yoosung when kim dokja wasn’t there, also for being a good older sister to them

thank you uriel for being one of dokja’s biggest supporters, incarnating into the scenarios for him, going to the demon realm for him, and literally losing your internet privileges from metatron for him

thank you anna croft for being anna croft and for being one of kim dokja’s narrative victims. oh and thank you for being mischaracterized by the fandom and being misunderstood for your intentions but still continue to fight for what you thought was right

thank you biyoo for reincarnating into a dokkaebi, giving sub scenarios to kim dokja, and putting up with his bullshit, truly the most tired one of his shenanigans

thank you shin yoosung for saving kim dokja, being lee gilyoung’s friend, being underrated, for having to grow up faster to survive, and being willing to sacrifice yourself twice (once for feeling guilty and being willing to die for 41st sys, and the second being during the intersecting scene during the kaizenix arc where we see where lee gilyoung, lee jihye, and shin yoosung were teleported to)

thank you jophiel for sacrificing yourself to stay back in the 1863rd round, you were actually really cool with the few time you had

thank you gabriel for taking the blame for jophiel when you got back to eden and for taking care of uriel too

thank you lee sookyung for being kim dokja’s mother, for keeping a secret for your son, for allowing him to hate you despite knowing the truth, and having the best intentions for your son

thank you cho youngran for looking after lee sookyung and being dedicated to her

thank you persephone for being kim dokja’s other mom, for lending him aid whenever he asked for it (be thankful kdj), for showing actual care for him later on, for fighting for him during the ark

thank you selena kim for looking out for iris and being kind still after anna croft used you

thank you iris for surviving because even if you were one of kim dokja’s least favorite characters in twsa, you were still a child when the scenarios happened and you were betrayed by anna croft

thank you yoo mia for being silly, rude to kim dokja, and for offering to help secretive plotter

thank you min jiwon for being pretty and for being the king of beauty

thank you asuka ren for creating peace land, which lead to kyrgios existing, also for supporting kim dokja during the final scenario

thank you namgung minyoung, who is breaking the sky sword saint, for training punisher, jang hayoung, breaking the sky sword master, for helping kim dokja during the surya train, for being a half giant, and finally for being kyrgios’ ex girlfriend

thank you punisher for being punisher there’s nothing other than that, i love you queen

thank you tls123 for creating the star stream, killing billions, maybe even more than that, writing twsa for thirteen years straight, for doing it all to see kim dokja and to see him live again, for creating the altered 1863rd round (which is definitely a favorite for me)

and finally, thank you han sooyoung for everything because if i write down all the things i’m grateful that you did then it would take me ages, and thanks for being my favorite ever

[diwara]

Major orv spoilers

I need to know the memory ratio between hsy and hsy's rogue avatar because the difference between that and kdj's rogue avatar is astounding

Hsy's rogue avatar ran a pretty smooth operation in the 1863rd world line, collected all the companions and kept them alive and thriving, and eventually reached the final wall. And even after that, she had the strength and mental clarity to spend 13 years in the body of her past self to write Ways of Survival (even planning out her upload schedule so kdj would get some sleep)

Meanwhile 49% kdj just goes with the flow no thoughts head empty dissociated king and alleged tomato enjoyer, sorry Gilyoung we'll go to the ocean next time, what were you saying about this scene not being in the 3rd round? Doesn't even get mad when hsy slices him in an attempt to prove he's an avatar, and was apparently just dragged around during the group regression

(49% kdj is a tragedy of its own but that's another matter entirely)

[metanarrates]

the specter of 1863rd being brought up IMMEDIATELY as yjh is preparing to cast himself in the role of an evil, selfish traitor to keep kim dokja alive. whether you like it or not kdj, yjh is a person who will continually pick isolation and being misunderstood as his first solution to any problem because that is how the regressions have taught him to behave!

[cum-villain]

Do you ever think about Yoo Joonghyuk's timeline? Because, the beginning of Kim Dokja's end is the end of Yoo Joonghyuk's beginning. Kim Dokja's epilogue is Yoo Joonghyuk's prologue.

The World of Zero is, of course, his beginning. He's a man who has little backstory, few answers as to how he lived a human life. Then, a calamity strikes, and he's just a normal human man. But a strange Constellation favours him above all others, and throughout his horror, the life that he has more tangible memories of than his normal life, he's guided through it. He has his companions, his little sister, his greatest friends, his wife who he adopts children with, they all make it to the end, they all live a happy epilogue.

Except, this Constellation is still different. This Constellation not only knew so much, but he's still not on earth. He's still far away. One of Yoo Joonghyuk's companions, the one who showed him how to keep the rest alive, he isn't there. So of course Yoo Joonghyuk wants to meet this person, to repay the kindness of saving his world by meeting, and possibly saving, the person who can never exist in his world. And, of course it's worth it. One day, he'll meet this person, and the almost two-thousand lives he's supposed to live in the future will be worth it.

So, he regresses. And he forgets. And he's in the nightmare again, but this time, he has no loving guide. Only question marks as a cold, unresponsive sponsor. And his companions die, his beloved ones die. So he regresses again, to save the world he thinks. And he finds the woman he loves, he has a child, but she dies. The child dies. All he love dies. And he dies too. And his sponsor is silent.

One turns to two, two turns to three, turns to 10, to 14, to 41, to 999, to 1862. And he regresses. Again. He dies, and it will not last, he must return to that subway. That god damn subway. And his sponsor is silent. But then, the 1863rd turn.

In one worldline, it's yet another turn with a cold sponsor. Where he refuses to regress again, and searches only for that cold sponsor, for an end to the regressions, so he may finally have an end. If he can never have a happy ending, at the very least he wants an end to his existence.

But in another, a strange man appears. He has lost everything, a strange woman turning everyone against him, leading him to give in and accept an eternal epilogue, a neverending sleep. But this man, with a frail body, who clearly doesn't belong on this worldline, who he has never seen before in any regression he remembers. He speaks. He speaks of the worlds which nobody around him remembers. He speaks words of hope, of scorn and sympathy, of acknowledgement. He has a guide, not of how to survive, he could do that well enough. But a guide on how to live, how to make it through, how to continue.

So, he regresses. And he forgets. He forgets about that strange worldline where everything was different, he forgets about the strange man who gave him the courage to live. He forgets which regression he's on, believing himself to be so much younger than the many-millennia old existence he is. But still, he is older than the 28-year-old pro-gamer he was when he went through his first scenarios. And here is a strange man, who speaks words of provocation, fearful and arrogantly fearless, who knows of a future even he cannot remember. And maybe this voice is one he's heard before. Or maybe he's so desperate for something new that will save the world. And so, this strange man becomes his companion.

But, this strange man becomes a Constellation. But he's not like other Constellations, he can be spared for the time being. But, this strange man read his life like a story, he's worse than a prophet, he's someone who took the pain of his life for entertainment. He's a true Constellation. But he did so to survive, and he requires this man's help, and something makes him care about this arrogant Constellation, his Life and Death Companion.

But, this man was once the Oldest Dream. His alleged sponsor. But this sponsor was a child, and Kim Dokja never intended this, Kim Dokja, put the sword shard down, this doesn't need to end this way.

And along the way, he's realized something, on some level. This man is arrogant, this man pisses him off to no end, this man's existence serves to relentlessly mock him. And yet, there is no happy ending, no world Yoo Joonghyuk wants to save, that doesn't have him in it. So, he saves Kim Dokja.

But he doesn't know until later that he's failed. That Kim Dokja is gone, at least half of him. And right before trying to recover the rest of Kim Dokja from beyond the wall, he remembers. He remembers what he was fighting for. For all this time, for all these millennia, it was all for Kim Dokja, it was all for his sponsor who showed him how to survive, how to live, how to be happy. All this time, his purpose was to recover Kim Dokja from beyond the wall.

And as he finally reaches beyond it for the second time, this time knowing his purpose, this time knowing exactly what he wants, what he came here for...

Kim Dokja crumbles into the wind. And they both have reached an irreversible end. There is nothing left for either of them now.