#BTW in the present day I have a lot of complicated feelings about the fixation due to my internal self image/sense of identity

[satanfemme]

I had a very very long fixation on owls when I was a child for like, idk, 7 years straight probably it was my whole life. and its not something I've really thought about much since becoming an adult, but my dad just sent me an audio clip of an owl vocalizing and was like "identify this species for me" and I responded with an answer immediately, with full confidence. so yeah I guess u could say I've still got it

[izzyovercoffee]

Hm... hi? Sorry for any inconvenience, but I started reading RepComm (I'm at the beginning of Order 66, so I don't know if that happens later) and I can't help thinking about Tor and Ijaat meeting the Nulls, before and after they left Kal? Or if Ilippi survived, what would a meeting between the Nulls and her be like? And it made me realize that characters who don't like Kal are either just quoted or never appear or are dead or are framed as wrong and reading this is such an exercise in patience

ps: btw, love your meta! that's what made me want to read RepComm, to be honest, and sorry for the english, it's not my first language 

I’m so sorry it took me so long to reply!!! THANK YOU FOR THE ASK. And also, just thank you. Truly, thank you. I wasn’t sure if people still read the meta out there or not, but I’m glad that you enjoyed them!! also your english was beautiful, I understood what you said perfectly

but also LMAO at: 

reading this is such an exercise in patience 

I TRULY FEEL THIS IN MY HEART OF HEARTS

Even after all this time, I still LOVE the Republic Commando books. I do---but rereading them is definitely an exercise in patience, now that I see all the problems and the glaring inconsistencies. But I still see the good parts, even great parts, and I keep coming back to them lmao 

BUT TO CIRCLE BACK--- 

I can't help thinking about Tor and Ijaat meeting the Nulls, before and after they left Kal? Or if Ilippi survived, what would a meeting between the Nulls and her be like?

I also think about these things a lot lmao

I’m often torn on the idea of the Nulls meeting Tor and Ijaat, or the Nulls meeting Ilippi if she had survived her illness. The way Prudii talks about her, in Order 66, makes me feel that they’ve internalized the bitterness and the resentment that Kal very likely felt early, early on in their development when he was young, and broke, and alone on Kamino surrounded by people who hated him. 

Kal has long since softened (on her, on his marriage failing, on his biological children disowning him), since he defends her against Prudii’s statements, but the sad truth is that the Nulls learned that bitterness and that resentment from him, originally---as they were raised and trained by him. It’s truly hard to say how they would have reacted in meeting her, and I feel like all of the Nulls would have held very radically different opinions on the matter. 

But, depending on who was or wasn’t present at that meeting, and any subsequent meetings ... would likely change how they react or respond to her. With Kal present, there’s always an underlying need for them to perform in a way that would further secure his love in them (regardless of whether or not it’s “necessary,” though to a degree it is---because of the way he withholds affection when someone doesn’t do something he agrees with) versus showing their true selves, or expressing their true opinions beyond his hearing.

We saw Prudii’s, and his bitterness and resentment likely reflecting Kal’s when he was a decade younger, but I think Ordo would have been much more polite. A’den would have been curious, no doubt, but nosy. Jaing can’t help but be intimidating, even if maybe he doesn’t want to be, and Mereel can’t help but be excessively charming and warm. Kom’rk is a toss up---his choice to keep his distance from the core is one that can be read as a choice to stay as far away from Kal as possible, and it’s one that might lend Kom’rk to being kinder and far more understanding than the rest of Ilippi. 

I wonder, actually, if there would have been jokes about the one woman who tried (and failed) to “tame” Kal (as those kinds of jokes tend to go, I guess?) but if there would have been some respect there, too, for the attempt. Had Ilippi lived, had KT been less biased against her female characters, there’s an entire world of potential, just in highlighting Kal’s faults and how everyone can work around them (or how he could / should work on them). 

I mean, okay. I have obviously softened somewhat on my frustrations towards Kal as a character, and I find myself thinking a lot these days about the Kal we should have gotten, the Kal a large chunk of the fandom think we have (but don’t), and the Kal the books believe they gave us. I think about the way the books should have gone if they were faithful to the narrative arcs they started before they were derailed by excessive soap-boxing and a doubling-down to bend to biases that broke the momentum because they just didn’t make sense.

One of the major arcs being character growth---owning up to one’s faults and mistakes, and making a conscious effort to become a better version of yourself through blood, sweat, and (literal) tears.  

And maybe part of that would always be hindered, or outright cut short, because Ilippi never survived to tell her side of her mistreatment and failed marriage---and also because we were never, really, given the opportunity to hear Tor nor Ijaat’s own memories. 

I struggle to think about how Tor and Ijaat would have dealt with the Nulls. I get the feeling there would be a lot of insecurity in all of them---and a feeling of being replaced, and some lingering resentment and anger towards each other (that should be directed at Kal, but for a lot of reasons, just like in real life, would be misdirected instead to other people). 

Miscommunication is a major sore point for Kal in general---he has a huge inability to actually express his love in his actions, or clarify his intentions, which may be good, in order to separate them from his missteps, which are often terrible. Tor and Ijaat, if they’re well-adjusted men now, would find it hard to not see what being raised in that kind of environment had on the Nulls. They have a lot of issues as a result of their genetics, yes, but a lot of their lingering and prolonged mental illnesses can, in some part, also be attributed to the “affectionate abuse” Kal gave them, and I wonder if Kal’s biological sons still carried lingering emotional and mental scars from their childhood---or if they had so little direct interaction with Kal that what few moments they had were uniformly positive---and if their resentment towards him genuinely was, as they said, because he wasn’t there when Ilippi was dying from her illness.

In this scenario, actually, if Ilippi survived... would they still have divorced Kal from their lives and rejected his fatherhood entirely? All of that hinged on him not being present, him being away at Kamino, during her very last days. 

So much of this also undermines the idea of Kal’s control over the Nulls, and the rest of the clan. If Ilippi not only survived, but thrived, away from him? If Tor and Ijaat are living full and fulfilling lives without him in it? If Ruusaan never “needed” to be rescued in the way that she was? They all would have stood as examples of a life beyond making personal choices and decisions that were dictated by him, and would have, at the very least, been a life that could stand in direct comparison and be just as messy and complicated as real life tends to be. 

also WOW i really .... uhhh I really got away from the point here. I am so sorry LMAO I GOT CARRIED AWAY. IT’S BEEN A LONG TIME since I got to ramble about repcomm, and I really fixate on a lot of the missed opportunities these days, because there are SO MANY. But I guess that’s what fic is for, right?

RIGHT???

Absolutely no pressure, BUT if you do decide to write fic about this, or do your own meta or exploration, I am ALWAYS excited to see what people come up with. I haven’t really been on tumblr that much lately, but I see now that The Mandalorian is out there and people are discovering (or rediscovering) Republic Commando, there’s a wealth of new stuff out there I desperately need to catch up on.

ANYWAY LMAO I’M SORRY I RAMBLE SO MUCH I JUST! THESE QUESTIONS ARE SO GOOD. THANK YOU AGAIN FOR THE ASK. 

And I hope this find you well, ner vod.

[dotthings]

Couple of thoughts about Mary’s arc and her relationship to Sam and Dean.

Yes it’s on purpose, and she’s connecting with pretty much everyone more than she does with Dean. It’s on purpose. There’s character reasons for it. I’m not sure where it’s going or if it will evolve or improve or get resolved but it makes sense even though it hurts. I think if you look back on the character history and how she was resurrected, that becomes clearer and clearer. 

Quick review--Mary is someone raised into the hunting life who wanted desperately to get out of it, who never wanted it for her children. She made a mistake and made a demon deal that resulted in her death and endangered her youngest child, and John went mad with grief and pretty much emotionally screwed up both his kids as a result of his revenge fixation on her behalf. When she died she was a ghost for a while and protected her children. When she went to Heaven, she was united with dream-versions of the baby and toddler she lost, while on earth her real, actual children were fully grown adults. Growing without her. Going through horrific stuff without her. Becoming people she didn’t know. Total strangers. Not the babies she knew.

So. Resurrected Mary, confronted with these total strangers saying they were her sons, found that hard to adjust to and she’s still adjusting. Trauma. Go figure.

SPN made a mis-step equating making apple pie to just being there and being emotionally present but aside from that, her arc is making sense.

She connects better with Sam because--as canon overtly spelled out--Sam has no memory of her, he was a baby when she died. They don’t have the same baggage Dean and Mary do. 

Dean remembers her. Dean was the most hurt by her loss because he remembers her. Dean and Mary were close, even when Dean was only 4 years old, they are compatible personalities. She knows how much she hurt Dean because he told her. “I love you...and I hate you...and I forgive you.” 

Just as SPN has had a slow arc about Dean coming to terms with the nature of his father, he’s coming to terms with the nature of his mother. I wasn’t sure which way they were going to go with Mary, after she was acting towards Sam comfortably like a mom would, not a mom who cooks but a mom who is present and in 14.01 she didn’t try to boss him, she was genuinely supportive. Mary is btw the only person in 14.01 who talks about how Dean must be feeling trapped inside Michael. Lack of caring isn’t the problem here. In 14.05 they have Sam and Mary bonding nicely and the ep seems to pointedly avoid giving Dean and Mary any real talk. Dean talks with Sasha about her father, and says sometimes you have to let stuff go...which is about John but I think the subtext there it’s about Mary too. So I wondered if they were going to warm up the Dean and Mary bond, but it seems that consistently, she does avoid Dean. And it’s purposefully written and crafted that way, and it’s not anti-Dean, it’s part of Dean’s arc. It’s significant. It’s part of Dean figuring out his own worth, and not defining himself by John or Mary or the hurt they do and it’s hard to get past that but Dean is coming to terms with it. I also think there is hope for Dean and Mary to have a better relationship in the future. Because she does care and he cares. 

But right now, this is the relationship and she’s not going to be all there, and Mary always seems to have another priority taking her away from Sam and Dean, and she may never really adjust to having her babies suddenly replaced with adult strangers. Maybe no one could get over that. She still is going to try and I can see her trying to be there for them while she falls short.

At the end of the ep Dean and Mary have a decent moment where Mary vehemently and warmly tells him if he needs anything to call and they hug. Dean says “go, be happy.” He’s letting go. Maybe the good parts of Mary also matter, maybe they can still connect. It’s not a fix or a resolution, but it’s not without warmth either. 

Mary always trying and always running away. She cares but she’s emotionally absent. It’s not all one thing or the other. 

She’s also a whole lot less difficult on a day to day basis than John, she doesn’t do a lot of the negative things John did even to adult Sam and Dean, particular with Dean. With Mary there’s a different sent of problems.

Where Mary hurts the most is that this de-mystification of Mary, and the transition from idealized memory to emotionally distant, complicated mom, took place after over a decade of the show keeping her as idealized and then abruptly de-mystified her, with a Mary we’re getting to know at times coming across as selfish at times, emotionally distant, presumptuous--in that she didn’t earn using that “mom voice” after her utter absence and the choices she made after being reunited with her kids, and I think, given her 14.01 adjustments, she’s aware--and inconsistent. It’s on purpose. It’s not crap writing. The writers are aware. Like it, don’t like it, condemn her fully or try to understand her pov, hate her or love her, it’s crafted this way for a reason. 

You can also understand her pov while criticizing her, not every discussion of Mary that doesn’t completely flame the character is claiming she’s a wonderful mom or unaware of the issues and problems or the hurt Dean especially has gone through from either of his parents.