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#But also want to explore Reiners feelings toward her post rumbling
teasel-backatitagain · 3 months
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Thinking about her (Karina Braun)
#I do not like her in the slightest#But also want to explore Reiners feelings toward her post rumbling#Her 'oh yes i only want my son' bullshit is not flying with me (nor is it flying with jean AHAHAHAH)#Karina used Reiner as a tool to further her own desires#Putting a clear expiration date on her only son as the ripe age of ten#She sees him coming back from his trip to hell depressed suicidal self harming and does not care lol#She also gladly pushes gabby toward the same fate (and we know how Reiner feels about Gabby)#So yes propaganda propaganda but goddamn the amount of damages she caused her only son (a literal CHILD)#Reiner is somewhat aware of all that but feels conflicted about it and might kind of push it away#Cause god he has already lost so much#She would have AT BEST troubles reckoning with the full extend of it and properly atone for it#And at worst be a nasty bitch about it and straight up refuse to admit anything but still insists on having a relationship with her son#Idk man wherever she ends up falling on that spectrum Reiner is in for a fun time#(cause i do think he'd want some sort of relationship with her)#(also i think she wouldn't be fully on board with her son kissing devil men (yes jean) on the mouth so that's a problem to add to the list)#Interested about how jean would fit in all of that cause of course he'd be there every step of the way#(they're in love your honor there is just a chance they don't know it yet)#Between his mom being so not karina#his foul mouth#big heart and burning desire to prevent reiner from being trampled yet again#That would make for some fun discussions#So much possibilities... the juices are jussing#do i have the braincells to discuss all this with the nuance it deserves at this ungodly hour? no#hopefully at some point i will#reinjean adjacent#rambling
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it-sy-bit-sy · 3 years
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The ending of Attack on Titan: a shallow analysis
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(I don't think I should have to put a spoilers alert on a blog about the ENDING OF AOT, but in general if you mind being spoiled on a series, I advise you to refrain from attending discussions about the body of work until you've finished it in its entirety/come up to speed on the current chapter/episode. Screw hype dude, do you like being hurt? Also for the TLDR, it’s that Attack on Titan explores the cycle of hatred (Eren’s journey) AND love which is why Mikasa and Ymir become relevant at the end of the story.)
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PREFACE
Since the newly added panels of AOT’s ending have been likened by some to the ending of Naruto, I'd like to say that Naruto's end truly hurt me; the way it flows into Boruto is so contrived it burns. A story that's always centered around powerful ninja bloodlines fighting political wars suddenly introduced aliens that harvest planets for energy as the super antagonist, and additionally they're the source of all our characters' powers as well as the jinchuriki and tailed beasts themselves. Then when you look at the plot of Boruto which heavily relies on the Otsutsuki clan as an antagonistic force, their whole existence feels like the transition from Dragon Ball straight into the first DBZ arc with Goku learning he’s really part of an alien race that was meant to destroy Earth.
I didn't detect so forced a role in the ending of AOT, but it's absolutely plausible to speculate that the alternate ending was influenced for this reason, as we know Attack on Titan wasn't produced through Isayama's involvement alone. Certain compromises are made when operating as a team, though it would be wonderful if the original intent of authors were more absolute in the world of production than they are known to be.
And as much as I don't enjoy half-hearted continuations of series for a royalty check, I ALMOST can't blame them for doing it...it creates (many) happy fans, more jobs, and Isayama gets his royalty check. The rest of us suffer but hey, artists need money I guess... 🥀 Moving on. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#1. Eren's development as a character
I never saw Eren's goal steered in the direction of breaking the cycle of revenge or hatred. He was acting wholly in his own interests. He's intensely selfish, doesn't want to change his views, and exists in the story to further the cycle itself. According to me, Chapters 129 and 131 perfectly explain his motivations for the rumbling.
Now before I go on, I'd like to bring a particular scene to mind. I do remember him saying this once (to Historia who had just told him killing the rest of the world is unjustifiable and wrong):
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Yes, he said that, but I don't think that is what he ever intended the rumbling to be used for.
After he stated that 80% of humanity was wiped out so Paradis will be safe for the time being, he neglected to answer Armin's questions in 139: "Did you really need to go that far? Are you sure you did all of this for our sakes?" We may also consider the thoughts he chose NOT to share in chapter 131:
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That combined with this excerpt from 129 is pretty much all there is to Eren's convictions.
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Those are the same words he said in Chapter 2 after his mother died.
So despite his brief period of self-loathing when considering 1) the countless lives in survey corps sacrificed for his sake, 2) being confronted with his and his father's involvement in the Reiss family, 3) everything he learned about his enemy--that all titans are formerly human, that the titan shifters were just children deceived by their world--he even admits to Reiner during Tyburn's speech (Chapter 100) that they are indeed in the same boat--and on top of that, admitting that the rumbling will do nothing to fix the course of history, he settled with the same conviction he held the moment he decided to do something to change the world.
Again, here's his words from 139 showing us just how angry a boi Eren was.
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This was Eren Jaeger...he didn't even really know what he was doing.
As a human being, Eren was very much in the cycle of revenge as much as everyone else was. His course of action never deviated too far from that path. He knew better, but he lashed out at the world to protect the few people he cared about anyway. He took freedom away from the ones who threatened him. He was a mass murderer, and so were the other soldiers in this series fighting for their own reasons, since titans were people. Survey corps were always slaughtering these people whom they saw as monsters. Marley viewed Eldians as monstrously and with as much hatred as Eldians viewed the titans. Eren did not try to justify his actions to everyone. He simply stopped seeing the value of life in others not important to him, as humans often do.
So what did he sacrifice 80% of humanity for? From 129 again:
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Them meaning his immediate friends.
No, he didn't care about their children's children and beyond because there's no way to control what happens when you're gone from this world. It wasn't his problem. Eren had 4 years at most left to live, and he wanted to do what he could to ensure his friends were happy before he left.
And as jarring as it was to see Eren become undone in the last chapter, I didn't find it completely out of character, because for one he was talking to his closest friend moments before his own death, and secondly, Eren was just a stupid human like the rest of the people in this series. Obviously, most people just want a normal life that they can spend with people whom they love. Eren was the same way, but was denied that future (and happened to be able to do something about it). Very selfish goals, but those chosen few were his world. Along with a general distaste for humanity, that's how I understand his character motivations.
*Which is to say in relation to the extra pages, Ymir's curse returning a generation or two after the events of AOT doesn't entirely void his actions. I’m assuming the power of Ymir apparently exists as a force of nature on this version of Earth period, so I suppose this points us to an endless cycle of humans eventually finding the power and using it as they see fit *
#2 Why is Romance Relevant to Attack on Titan?
I wasn't expecting a romance factor to be relevant at the end of the story, however considering that Mikasa's affection for Eren WAS her most prominent personality trait as a character, then the events that followed, I was forced to look back to a few moments in the series that could lend light to why, in the end, a romantic subplot ended the curse of Ymir. My conclusions are as follows:
1. Quite literally, the cycle of hatred never ends. Humans will always have a reason to be unkind to one another. We are animals after all; this trait cannot be reasoned through with logic, bred out, or defeated. We are a self-aware species (Eren's even aware of his own hypocrisy in Chapter 131). There will always arise those who take what they want for themselves because they decide in the end they don't care about others as much as they care about their own interests.
2. To make this second point, I'm stealing these words out of a certain machine lifeform's mouth, but bear with me here:
"But the humans...? Now THEY are interesting. Because they are an enigma! They killed uncountable numbers of their own kind, yet loved in equal measure! It's fascinating, don't you think? What could possibly drive such behavior? We have dedicated ourselves to unraveling this riddle of humanity..."
--Adam from NieR:Automata
AOT uses Eren and Mikasa as a case study of humanity. Humans hate and love in equal measure.
In Ch. 129, Zeke's piece here foreshadows the significance of those two for the story, I guess?
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Now everyone reading this series as well as the characters in it had noticed how much fondness Mikasa always had for Eren, and how aloof he always was towards her in return...that's something for them to work out.
Despite never really reciprocating Mikasa's feelings, Eren told Armin at the end of the series that yes, he enjoyed receiving her attention; he would have liked to live a happy life with her. So, Mikasa just liked Eren, Eren liked her... And similar to Mikasa, Ymir just liked King Fritz. It doesn't matter whether we think these feelings were sound or not; they did what they wanted with themselves. I suppose that explains the reason she was a mega simp for Eren in the whole story. Yes, this turn in the story reads like a different plot now, not one about war and killing monsters, but I'm pleasantly surprised that this trait taken as a flaw of Mikasa’s actually served as a necessary condition to end the conflict of the titans.
Eren wouldn't let go of his hatred of the world for his own satisfaction, Ymir wouldn't let go of her love of King Fritz for her own satisfaction, and Mikasa is the only one who decided to let go of her convictions in the interest of someone other than herself. That's what moved the curse.
I think Isayama used the characters of Ymir and Mikasa to demonstrate that while there is a cycle of hatred and revenge running rampant in humanity, the cycle of love doesn't stop either.
In closing, and I truly apologize for such a lengthy post; I hope I didn’t reiterate my point too often here...I didn't think about any of this until I heard so many readers upset with the way AOT ended. I'm not personally left with any disappointment in where the story went. I didn't know where it was going to go in the first place, and I think it could have been much worse for us in different hands. 
*shrugs*
AOT is a story about the nature of humanity.
*And in regards to Jean, if that is supposed to be him with Mikasa in the new panels, all I can say is dude likes his girl. He was a simp for her and she was a simp for Eren, but the fact that they shared their lives together means a lot even if Eren was never completely buried in her heart. He meant a lot to her man, idk...
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aotopmha · 3 years
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Notes on an early scan of chapter 134:
-I'm really not sure how to treat Historia's plot thread at this point.
This made it pretty clear that Historia's pregnancy is probably very real, but at the same time it's still framed in suspicious ways. We still don't see any of her thoughts or any substantial answers to what is going on with her. It is still very much an unresolved mystery and I hold back my judgement in that sense.
I've said before that I don't see many ways (or any at all) in which the story could resolve Historia's character arc in a satisfactory way with the pregnancy being real; aside from being a gay-coded character that never showed any romantic interest in dudes before this, I feel she would never potentially doom anyone to a role they did not choose because since she was young she was pushed to play roles herself.
Perhaps this is the point, she is once again being forced into a role by the world and this time she is also forced do so with another life; perhaps her arc ends with the SL defeating Eren and creating at least some solution that doesn't need the Titan cycle anymore. Historia and her child would be safe to live as they want beyond it.
Perhaps it is something else entirely. I'm treating it as a separate thing because I think it, by nature, contradicts the series' themes. One of the ideas the story explores is disrupting the hurtful status quo, but pushing a gay character into a hetero box is the exact opposite of that and so is playing into the broken system the character initially rejected, even if it is supposed to be the tragedy of her character.
My biggest pet peeve with a story is when it is thematically inconsistent and right now the only inconsistency in terms of ideas in the story to me is Historia's character arc in this final arc. How I will see the story by its end considering the possible flaws in the writing of her character will ultimately pan out once everything about her is revealed.
So for right now I'm putting it in a separate box.
I'm in for the long haul because I think the story has been really strong despite the problems I have with it.
Will I be able to look past the flaws or will this ending stretch ultimately ruin the story for me? We'll see.
I think I'll always treasure the high points of the story, though. So I think no matter what, I'll never completely abandon it, lay out my likes and dislikes, sure, but I think it has been strong enough to stay in my heart no matter what comes in this final stretch.
Moving on from this box, then, other than the Historia moment, I actually feel like there wasn't much else to talk about in this chapter.
This is probably the first chapter in forever I felt emulated chapter 46/63/73 in that it was very low on actually new information.
The plane crew pulling it together and finally deciding to take action and take the huge Titan down is a rewarding cliffhanger, the spectacle is excellent and as expected the allied fleet is defeated easily, as a destroyed small hope as I expected, too, but there really isn't much for me to sink my teeth in.
There is the beginnings of understanding with the Marleyan soldier, Isayama does this perspective thing quite a bit by occasionally having some no names express their ideas.
He did it in chapter 14 with the citizens of Rose and Shina talking about Eren's power before his trial, he did it with the citizens in the Orvud attack in chapter 67-68. He has done it with Marley with the people talking about the Middle Eastern boy Ramsey and the varying reactions from Paradis people as the walls collapsed on them. He uses fodder as mouthpieces quite often and often also makes their perspectives more complex with further elaboration from actual characters. So I think the solution to everything will contain that idea, but will be a little bit more nuanced than that.
I've seen people say that the story is dragging a while now, but I've never felt it, to me some of the chapters even actually didn't get the breathing room they needed, but now I'm really feeling the story spinning its wheels.
The point of the speech to me is that mistreatment of people causes them to develop hatred towards the other side in return, so the solution is to, at some point, look past of it. It's the standard hatred creates more hatred idea we've seen thrown around a whole bunch with Nicolo overcoming it and Eren succumbing to it. In this chapter, Karina is also starting to see what exactly she put Reiner through. It's focus on small steps amidst despair (as is the name of the chapter) that will probably come to play in the finale of the story.
Strangely enough, the children are the future idea makes a return here. It is strange to me because it's been such a minor theme in the story and hasn't shown up in quite a while.
I could care less for it, take it or leave it. Doesn't change much of anything for me.
The scenes of people dying from the rumbling also leave me ambivalent this time around, we've seen it several chapters now and those cases fleshed out individual perspectives. Here it's just random crowds dying, which is awful and I am actually glad to see further substance that shows what Eren is doing is horrible, but also not as effective because of no real personal element to it.
In essence there isn't anything much new in here except the end with the 104th's resolve.
I would argue the only other new detail is that Eren is using the Beast Titan in a very separated way from Zeke. I think he created a separate version of the Titan itself to use. This means Zeke is probably still stuck there on Eren's Titan body and there is now an opportunity for him to contribute to Eren's defeat.
So I'm mostly fairly indifferent to this chapter. It's another setup chapter, but inspires very little emotion from me.
I am, however, still excited for what is coming next because of the unresolved mysteries.
Once the CR/Comixology scans come out, I might post some additional thoughts.
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yaboylevi · 4 years
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“Let’s talk!”
In this post, I’d like to examine why the words chosen to sway and stop Eren in chapter 133 didn’t resonate with some readers, as well as with Eren.
Disclaimer #1: This isn’t a justification of any kind. I merely tried to look in a critical way at the individual parts, because while reading them, I felt a disconnect with what the 104th thought could get to Eren.  As I read, it felt obvious that what they were saying wasn’t gonna work. So I asked myself, Is Isayama such a bad writer that all his characters say is so obviously inappropriate or ineffective, or is this on purpose? (I still don’t know the answer)
Disclaimer #2: I realize that the 104th was suddenly brought in front of “Eren”, so they were surprised, and didn’t have time to sort through their reasonings, but I’d also say they have had plenty of time before. Also, maybe the suddenness of it all was actually a good thing, so we could see how some of the characters really felt.
Let’s start with Jean:
“We’ll figure out the rest from here” and, after Eren says he won’t stop, “Why not? Are you saying you can’t trust us?!”
First of all, Eren has been feeling like he was partially* pushed to this outcome, because in 4 years they couldn’t figure out what else to do to save the island in the long term. They still cannot come up with anything better than “we will be left alone for a while”, so Jean’s words offer an empty promise. It has been established that Eren won’t settle for “a while”, he wants a “forever”. Never mind that a temporary solution would still require for Historia and her kids to be sacrificed.
*Eren also feels like it was his own fault, due to “his past self wishing for everything to disappear”. We are still not sure what this means exactly, and if it is true (I’m thinking of Paths shenanigans here).
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Then, Jean talks about “trust”, particularly in comrades in arms. This is a topic that has been explored repeatedly since the beginning of the story, through Levi’s “make a choice” speeches, and Eren’s harsh experiences. Basically: when Eren decided to trust in his friends and comrades, in the forest of Giant Trees, Levi’s squad got killed, Eren captured, Levi injured. All in all, it resulted in many losses, and Eren has felt a deep guilt for that outcome ever since those events, all the way through Uprising Arc and probably even later on. No matter that it wasn’t his fault, he felt that it was. So the next time he had to decide whether to trust in himself or in his comrades, he decided to trust in himself. The story also calls back to the time he “chose wrong”, as if it wasn’t an obvious parallel already.
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Eren is rewarded with his friends safe and sound.
So it is no surprise that, as much as Eren - I believe -  would love to trust them, experience told him that he cannot, or the price to pay will be their lives. Eren has been entrusting the SC to find another solution to the Rumbling for 3-4 years, and in the end Marley was close to declare war on Paradis. Eren isn’t averse to trusting his comrades, he just feels like he cannot, not on this one choice. (Albeit I think he’s trusting them to do the choice of stopping him - but there is something he needs to do alone).
When it comes to Connie, I feel like bringing up Sasha’s death wasn’t the best of choices. Eren feels guilty about that. He broke down in such a helpless, desperate way, that I find it hard that Connie’s words would absolve any of that hatred and guilt he must be feeling. “We are the same” - both Eren and Reiner have acknowledged this about each other, and if it has even a bit of credibility, then no amount of apologies for not understanding them, or forgiveness for what they did, is gonna make them feel any better about the death and destruction they have both caused and feel guilty about. 
It was when Reiner threw himself to the ground and refused to accept Eren’s understanding and forgiveness that Eren reiterated they are the same, after all.
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Hence why Connie’s words couldn’t have had the desired effect. (Also, guys, look, the “let’s band together against a common enemy is RIGHT on this page...lol)
Now, Armin’s words.
To me, it seems like he doesn’t really know what to say. Or rather, he tried every idea that bounced in his head at that moment, without a clear strategy. He didn’t have time to form one, and besides it’s difficult to decide whether to use an objective approach or an emotional one when it comes to your best friends. But even then, I felt like the reasonings, and reasons, he brought up, failed to reach Eren in a significant manner. And by this, I don’t mean that Eren wouldn’t want to just drop everything and hug his friends... we all know he would, under normal circumstances, because there is no doubt he loves them deeply... but it seems to me he has resolved to push his own feelings down and just...move forward - which is in a direction away from his friends.
Armin starts with logic, “Eren has brought so much destruction that nobody will interfere with the Island for centuries”. Except, Armin has no proof. On the other hand, Eren has probably seen that there are still enemy forces advancing in their attack of the Rumbling, so if he were to stop the Rumbling now, they’d attack Paradis. “The island is fine now.” It isn’t. I think Armin is aware that this was a lie on his part.
Armin immediately realizes that’s not good enough, and that he’s wrong, and Eren knows, so he switches to the emotional route. 
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“We were wrong. We forced you to this point”. It would not resonate with Eren, because Eren is too aware of the fact that what he is doing is not because his friends never understood him. As bad as they acted toward their friend, they aren’t the cause for this war. The Rumbling exists because there are people who were ready to destroy Paradis.
This prompts Jean to bring up another elephant in the room: “Eren is doing this for our sake”…which isn’t wrong, but telling Eren he doesn’t have to do it for them just won’t make Eren stop. Eren has repeatedly stated that he wants them to live, and be free. Armin has just reminded him that if Eren stops, that freedom will be crushed, along with their lives. Eren, of course, cannot accept that.
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After Eren refuses to stop, Armin gets in full desperation-mode, saying they will be forever together. This is untrue, and I am not sure Armin fully realizes in the moment (how could he not, though?), because Eren will die in 4 years, Armin in 9. Besides the more pressing matter that the island can be attacked again, if Eren stops.
Lastly, “Don’t go any futher away from us than you already have”.
This is a sentiment that Armin shares with Mikasa, since all the way back to the Clash of the Titans Arc. At the time, they thought back on how Eren was always rushing forward, leaving them behind. Mikasa’s argument, in chapter 133, also touches on this. I said “argument”, but it’s more like a confession. The chapter is called Sinners for a reason, after all.
So yeah, Mikasa.
Amongst all the ineffective argument that were brought up, Mikasa’s words are the ones that took me aback the most, honestly. I am not sure if I am interpreting this right, but she sounds like she’s okay with falling to Eren’s level, as long as she can be with him. Nothing new here, but more specifically, the worst sins Eren has committed, for example killing innocents and children, which is what Mikasa focused her horrified shock on in Liberio, she is willing to do herself. That’s how you share a burden of sins, by taking part in committing them. And that’s what she acknowledges. What she wants. She says it quietly because she seems ashamed of that. Because she wanted to be like Eren, to stay close to Eren, and to share his sins, she killed and enabled Eren. So now that she has “committed the same sins”…? She has conquered a spot next to Eren? So he should stop and come back. This seems to be her line of reasoning. This is horrifying, I understand why she didn’t have the courage to yell it.
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We know that Eren’s fear is that he may have enslaved her to his will, and whether he still believes it or he has just a few doubts left, seeing Mikasa admitting to something like this, must have reminded Eren of exactly why he wants Mikasa to be separated from him. ‘Cause this isn’t healthy.
Eren surely can’t feel any better by knowing Mikasa had followed that logic - maybe unconsciously. If he tried to be firm and cruel once to get her to “abandon” him, it can only get worse.
The second part of Mikasa’s little speech isn’t any better, as far as situational context goes.
In the text, Mikasa has embodied the concept of family in regards to Eren, just as much as Armin instead embodied their childhood dream of freedom.
And sure enough, Mikasa repeats what she told Eren in Liberio: “Please come back (home)”. Well, at least the Japanese version is the same, lol.
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It is (still) her wish (it seems like nothing has changed in 30 chapters). But other than that, it brings up memories of Liberio, and of Mikasa’s disappointment and pain for Eren’s actions. The fact that Mikasa is willing to forgive (or better, accept) everything just because it’s Eren, may make Eren feel like she’s still not free from his influence. He may be feeling as if he brought her to accept killing innocents as something that can be partially overlooked…And I doubt it is what he wanted.
Besides, it seems that the story wants Mikasa to learn to let go as well. If Mikasa has kept on trying to keep Eren close, and it’s now become even as explicit as saying, literally, “come back home”, that “itterasshai” at the beginning of the manga counters this need and seems to imply Mikasa (who I suppose is the girl saying that) will learn to let Eren free to “go far away from her”.
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“Itterasshai”, in Japanese, is a wish for someone to be safe on their journey, whenever they go out, with the expectation that they will come back. Mikasa is soflty smiling, meaning that she is okay with Eren “going out and away”. Meanwhile, the Mikasa who costantly repeats that she wants Eren to come back, to stay close, is a Mikasa who suffers and cries.
And finally, Levi. What a lacklustre moment.
It feels like Levi believes no word can sway Eren (he isn’t wrong, but still…).
Levi has never been averse to “talking it out”. He has always mostly resorted to talking, before anything else, when it counted. With minor characters such as Dimo Reeves, but mostly with regards to Eren: when the first Levi squad was about to attack Eren, Levi tried to talk them down; whenever Eren was in doubt or set on hating himself, Levi reasoned it out with him, with heartfelt little words that hit Eren’s core at the right angle. Even when Eren was out of his mind and high on adrenaline, fear and rage on the rooftop in Shiganshina, Levi opted to try and talk to him first.
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The point is, he has always tried to understand Eren so that what he ended up saying, it would help the situation or resonate with Eren, or so he hoped.
This time, he doesn’t say anything of the sort. He merely admitted, in a very roundabout and lacklustre way, if not a bit too parodic for my tastes, what everyone else has said: that he would forgive Eren if he stopped now. Which isn’t bad, per se, but it’s not even close to what Levi used to be, or how he used to approach Eren.
Where Eren’s friends have missed out on what their words could achieve, potentially, due to a mix of not understanding Eren fully, and a concoction of feelings (panic, desperation, frustration) making them spout things that had no significant influence on Eren in that moment, Levi on the other hand didn’t even try this time, even though he has always done so before.
I am not sure if it’s because of Isayama’s total disinterest in Levi’s character as of late, or if it’s due to Levi himself not caring anymore - albeit it doesn’t seem the case, because he has kept on trying to find alternatives to killing Eren, so I don’t understand why he didn’t even try...
...unless he already knew it wouldn’t have worked out how Armin&Co wanted (and here I have conspiracy theories but let’s end it here lol).
Anyway, I hope this wasn’t too boring, I just felt like breaking down the scene a bit. Let me know what you thought of the various things the characters said in Paths, and if you agree with me, or if I am the only one who was disappointed by the scene, lol!
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