#Dess theories

[desultory-novice]

hi dess! probably the wrong person to ask but it's just to immensely confuddling... is there a solid lore explanation for how sectonia turned into a bee? i wanted to write a body horror thing for her but i wanted it to be lore accurate and it's just all so convoluted !

Wrong person or not, it is impeccable timing! Both because of Triple Deluxe's 10th Anniversary (in Japan time) and the fact that I've been intensely studying those scenes for my own anniversary piece! Which is, err, running late.

Here is what we can garner about Sectonia's transformation abilities based on the available information + insights the game gives us.

[Pause Screen Lore]

VS Sectonia Vine

"Sectonia's family(1) have parasitized, taken possession of, and controlled countless lifeforms."

1) This word is often translated as "clan" as in a large gathering of members who are not necessarily family but belong to a specific unified group. IE, this could mean anything from "she and her direct family members have this ability" to "all spiders within a certain classification have this ability" to "all spiders have this ability".

I sometimes HC that possession is something all female spiders possess, because I like to imagine her people being a Queendom and that'd be a good reason for it, and also because of The Dark Crystal's "Wings? I don't have wings." "Of course not. You're a boy." (Which just feels so Taranza + Sectonia coded to me)

(I say "sometimes" because I'm also very fond of trans-girl Sectonia HC.)

VS Queen Sectonia (2)

"Sectonia, beautiful and menacing in form. She has [placed herself] inside the world tree..."

VS Sectonia Soul (2)

"I have parasitized and changed bodies so many times, I can no longer recall...which of them was my original self..."

(This pause screen lore is written from Sectonia's POV.)

So, yes, Joronia/Sectonia is a parasite.

She attaches to something and makes it part of her body/swaps bodies with it. If we look at the difference between her queen-form and her flowered-form, we understand a few things about this process: she takes her current body, as well as the body of another living organism and fuse them together. IE: 1 + 1 = 1

She retains some visual aspects of her previous body after a "switch" (she still has the bee head, collar, and wings, for example) and gains the greater (?) amount of traits from the new body.

This would mean that after her first swap, she probably still looked a little like "Joronia." (Something like a messed up version of those matching toys where you have to align the head, torso, and legs.)

What this also means is that in order to look like "Queen Sectonia" who is so completely different from what Taranza and Joronia look like, she would have had to swap bodies a lot. (Not to mention, she is BIG. It is possible her last body-swap wasn't even to a bee/wasp but something large she absorbed to gain the qualities of its size! Or maybe she stole something large for the size and then stole something with a super thin waist to get that hourglass figure XD)

Planet Robobot's Clone Sectonia lore tells us that "countless species" were found in the Dream Stalk's DNA "stretching over 1,000 years" so this does indeed seem to confirm she did this a frightening amount of times over a long period of time.

It's safe to say you will probably find no one creature in the Kirby-verse that looks similar to Queen Sectonia, as her body was custom crafted with parts from countless critters.

We also get a few visual insights into how parasitization looks...

...Upon her initial defeat, she begins giving off a massive amount of glitter/sparkles/insect scales. 

This visual is interesting as, if she was already reaching for a new body after her defeat, it is possible this is the first part of the process. Shedding her initial body. If not, this could either be a sign of her current body failing/dying or her parasitic control over it weakening.

She raises up, does some hand movements, lets out a wave of magic and begins to glow brightly. When we check back in on her, she has expelled her wings (she has them back in flower form but they DO appear slightly different. More petal-like and droopy. See above.) and wriggling tentacles appear from behind her...

You can debate that these are the Dream Stalk's vines wrapping around her, but they don't seem to behave the same way. (They don't have leaves either, which the vines do.) Thus, I think these are "appendages" that specifically appear as part of Sectonia/Joronia's transformation process. If you think about the way insects emerge from their cocoons, I can imagine these as tendrils as coming out from a "split/crack" that slowly forms in her back...

There's a LOT of light and time and struggle involved in the process but this could be just because the Dream Stalk was such a large and powerful target, being rooted into Popstar itself. If she's done this hundreds or thousands of times before, it is possible there is a shorter version of this for things she already overpowers.

...Though, the grimdark part of my brain imagines things like Taranza using his magic to hold one of her struggling targets down while she enwraps it with her horrible parasite tendrils. If Dess hasn't said this before, I'm less interested in soft, sad boy Taranza and much more interested in "1/2 of a gleeful villain couple" Taranza, who is so captivated by his beloved, he happily joins her in all sorts of horrendous things - leading military invasions in her name, assassinations, putting down rebellions, capturing new victims for her, all things he IS implied to do in game through Dedede -  only turning a blind eye to it because he believes in and is infatuated with her and thus, this must be the right thing to do. Right...?

-

In summary, what we can glean is all pretty bad. Sectonia doesn't even "swap" bodies because the bodies she absorb all get used up and can be said to be "dead" from the moment she inhabits them. Though you can even argue this, as, once she is defeated, the Dream Stalk seems to regain its individuality after her absorption. If you're re~ally into horror, you could take this to mean that some aspect of her victims consciousness is carried on from body to body...!!!!

Also, swapping from body to body appears to be more of a melding process anyway, which could also be pretty darn horrible, depending upon how much control you think she has over which traits she inherits from her victims. If it's entirely her choice, it's simply a matter of how many bodies until she's found the traits she believes "perfects" her ultimate vision of herself - plus how many times she changes her mind. If it's NOT then she's probably gone through an insane amount of swaps/victims, discontented at the results and insisting on trying again and again until it turns out "right."

And there you have it! Joronia's transformation into Sectonia is both deeply pitiful and deeply, deeply frightening!

[juniemunie]

And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.

[windmills123]

have you ever thought about a world where everything is exactly the same... except you don't exist?

[gargyshmub]

DELTARUNE; Gargy's Fairytale Theory

So, lately I've kind of had an itch in the back of my mind about DELTARUNE, more specifically the secret or hidden bosses in the game and a little correlation they all share. I'll try to keep this under 100 pages but i promise nothing (tee hee hee)

If you've played the game to the extent you're looking at a tumblr blog dedicated to it, you're probably familiar with the character's jevil and spamton. These are the two characters coined by the community as "secret bosses", since you have to stray away from the games intended path to find them (in most cases.)

When you defeat spamton in his 'NEO form', a neat little song will play with his dialogue "a real boy!", this is a nod to the fable/fairytale "pinochio" I'm sure everyone's familiar with. It's a story about a doll that comes to life in search of becoming 'a real boy'. This corrilation made me realize there are A LOT of similarity's between pinochio and spamton. The strings, his regular form being a mockup of a doll, even his goal to become "big", its almost like becoming a 'real boy'. He knows he's not 'real', and just like at the end of pinochio, he too becomes renewed (reneo'd).

This made me wonder if the other secret boss, Jevil, represented something other than the Joker card. Then I realized whenever he was hit in his fat empty head it actually sprung out like a jack-in-the-box. I initially discarded this since it wasn't really a fable or fairy-tale, but if you do some digging you'll find it actually is!!!@! back in the 1400's somewhat, the jack in the box was originally named 'The Devil in the Box', essentially it's a story about a man who trapped a devil in a boot in order to save a village in france at the time, kinda like that one story about the court jester who got locked away by his magician friend in order to save their kingdom (haha. hahahahha. thats from deltarune. hahaha.) just to run home my point, jack-in-the-box; Devil in the box. Jack; Devil. What way could you fuse them together? Dack? Jackil? maybe some other 3rd way that has some importance to Yea thats right you know you've always known its Jevil.

Obviously, in deltarune fashion, its easy to overthink most elements in the story. Granted, toby will make an entire 2nd game about a hypothetical character you've never met but no you've only ever POSSIBLY met through a 1/100 chance door where he'll show you his asshole and then disappear into a million pieces, but yea, it's easy to make certain correlations that aren't even really there. In this case however I'd say that there's one more correlation that seals the deal that makes this theory WORTH theorizing.

Yea gaster. even though he's not even technically a character yet, every piece of information regarding him seems to lead people to believe he's not only the narrator at the beginning of the game, but he's also the 'man' behind the tree (since the way you find 'his sprite' in undertale is almost exactly similar ['theres a room in-between, theres a room, in-between']). I'm assuming you know what there is to know about gaster so im not gonna go into it, so onto the correlation.

I've read before someone talking about how gaster represents easter eggs in video games, not only physically (egghead) but metaphorically (the way you find him, his implied involvment with the secret bosses, the fact he gives you an '''''EGG''''' when you DO find him). Well if he is technically involved with the secret bosses, wouldn't that make him a fable too? I'm here to tell you he is. he is HUMPTY DUMPTY from SECOND GRADE FAIRY TALE PLAY.

I've already gone over his physical and metaphorical symbolism relating to eggs, but the story of humpty dumpty is also very, haha, hahahaha, hahahhahahaha

Humpty dumpty sat on a wall (The Core)

Humpty dumpty took a big fall ("Fell into his own creation")

All the kings horses and all the kings men (Who did gaster work for again?)

Couldn't put Humpty together again ("He was shattered across time and space")

What could this mean? for the future it means that if this theory is right, EVERY secret boss we meet is gonna represent not only a lightworld object, but an actual FAIRTY TALE, a FABLE. I mean, how many fables are out there. I know theres one in particular, one that the game is named after, one that has to do with an ANGEL. an ''''ANGEL'''' with ''''TATTERED WINGS''''''.

but then again idk

EDIT: ALSO LITTLE MISS MUFFET THINK ABOUT THAT UNDER-HEADS LITTLE MISS MUFFET SAT ON HER TUFFET

Last edit: also this has no grounds as an actual theory but uhhh that mf that made the Undertale RED boss fight got hired on the team. Huh. I wonder what Red was a reference to. Huh.

[ultimate-guardian]

Reblog for more votes 🗳 ❤️

[kooki914]

just remembered I could post this as it's own standalone thing lmao, originally from this video

[springbloggy]

Conspiracy theory

The Holiday family presents parallels to the Dreamurr family. Mayor is Asgore - both are never shown in the early game but are presented as being foreboding.

Rudy is Toriel - both are presented as kind hearted and caring parents who would take care of others no matter what.

Noelle is Asriel - both are kindhearted but troubles in their lives cause their viewpoints in the world to gradually change.

This would make Dess the Chara of the Holiday family. Like Chara's death, her disappearance is what kickstarts the whole story of the game.

If my level of thinking is correct then this

is the dark place she was stuck in in the code. The code is telling the past, she is controlling Kris' soul.

[smile-files]

i just love noelle's character design, especially when comparing her light and dark world outfits. one is warm, colorful, kitschy, friendly, and cozy -- while the other is chilly, pale, ethereal, delicate, and graceful. noelle is brave, but she's timid. she's strong, but she's fragile. she's easygoing, but she's hesitant. she's inviting, but she's mysterious. she's helpful, but she's distant. she's happy, but she's lonely. she's hardworking, but she's passive. noelle's a girl of paradoxes, which her clothes reflect... what else will we learn about her? :)

[dreemurrsightings]

SUSIE AS A OLDER SISTER

we know so little about Susie's family and i think many of us just assume that she was an only child but that not the case

we already knew she had a sister but now we know that she (like kris and noelle) as an older sister!

i wonder if she will play a bigger role in the story after all

Dess was mention only twice in chapter 1 but in chapter 2 Noelle talked about her a lot

is Susie's sister lost too? is she dead or alive? does she still have a connections with Susie?

when Rudy mentions "noelle's sister" around susie in chapter 2 she becomes quieter

and no one ever talk directly about Dess so i doubt she knows what happened to her or even knew of her existence in general

her reaction is way different to when she found out that Kris as a brother (of course we don't know what she saw in that room but it gets my point across)

why was she so melancholic and reflective when learning about noelle sister?

we don't know

we do know that they played Dragon blazers 2 together at some point so we can guest that they probably get along or al least used to get along

i just know that i'm going to stay up at night thinking about this

[paintedcrows]

Don't Forget as a lullaby Dess sang for Noelle is a thought that has haunted me non-stop for weeks now...

[metroidballs]

People talk about dess deltarune like we know anything about her

“She’s horrible for abandoning her family” she could be dead in a ditch we don’t know

[desultory-novice]

I find it hilarious that kirby doesn't know how to read or write. Yet he completely understands the concept of money and how it works!

So... I had a lot to say about the "Kirby can't read" thing?!?

See, this struck me last time I saw someone bring up Kirby can't read as proof Kirby is a very young child. (1) Speaking broadly, we as a species tie age/intelligence to reading level, which, by my reckoning, is a holdover of the school system. (:cough: That or callous systems of oppression to deny various people rights based on things like money, land, freedom, gender, religion, race, etc :cough:)

A Kirby who can't read must be a Kirby who hasn't gone to school!

But wait... ..."School??"

[continued below...w/ pictures!]

-

Is there even "school" in Dream Land? Waddle Dees seem to get put to work serving the king or guarding treasure or swinging happily across train tracks ("Oh my god, he's got airpods in! He can't hear us!") pretty much from the moment they make their first "Wanya!" In fact, Wise Waddle Dee seems to have become "wise" because...he found a book? Now, he was able to read it, but how long did it take him?? Can the other Waddle Dees read? Was Delivery Waddle Dee (?) taught to read by Wise Waddle Dee? How long did it take them to acquire this skill? They've all been there for X amount of time...

If Dream Land and Popstar as a whole has no mandatory schooling -public, private, or otherwise - can we really judge intelligence or age based on the same things we judge them on in the real world?

Another thing that made me question the logic of age = schooling was, amusingly enough, deciding to finally check out a rather FAMOUS episode of the anime...

A shame that the, erm, "feel good" ending leaves a bitter taste in the mouth now.

Anyway, the reason I went to watch the whole thing in the original Japanese was because I spotted something of interest and had to confirm it for myself...

King Dedede (at least in the anime) can't read either!

Now, Anime King Dedede also has cartoon human teeth (?) drives a ridiculously sized car everywhere, and abuses his gay snail second-in-command for "comedy" + a lot of other things we very much doubt of our beloved game Dedede. He's also portrayed as comically dumb. A little sad that the anime uses lack of literacy as an indicator that "Oh, look! He's embarrassingly stupid!" (That whole episode was Escargoon's fault. Not that I blame him, given the way Dedede treats him, but you really couldn't have just read the book aloud?!)

Anyway - because I'm me and I love to overanalyze insignificant or discarded tidbits and try to find clever ways to re-apply them in various canon - I thought about this and considered, "Yes, indeed! Why WOULD Dream Land have traditional schooling?! Why would anyone without a specific interest in books have any need develop the skill of reading in this world?" What is there TO read, even?

(Helpful road signs? All visual!)

My interpretation, at least, is that game Dedede is intelligent, if flawed. Still, he builds robots! He's good at chess! But these "smart" things are no indication he's good at reading or writing.

The note sent to Kirby in Kirby Fighters 2? We don't know Dedede wrote that. Meta Knight, who can read (...or so we assume?!?! Maybe That Book Meta Knight Was Reading on the Knoll in the Opening Cutscene for Return to Dream Land and Return to Dream Land Deluxe is a picture book!) might have written it for the two of them. Although... this puts another funny, twisty idea in my head!

We gather that, regardless of Kirby's need to read, Kirby has terrible handwriting, as implied by Kirby and the Forgotten Land. (Planet Robobot as well as various merch shows us that Kirby's not all that good at art, either.) Which is excusable, since they're writing with little nubs! Meta Knight has nubs too, but he covers them with (magical?) gloves that somehow give them better grip??

With these pseudo-hands, Meta Knight MUST be better at both letter writing and art than Kirby! Except... do we know that for sure...?

I point you to a certain Star Allies picture where Meta Knight's mirror duplicate, Dark Meta Knight, is drawing peacefully alongside Adeleine, Ribbon, and Daroach. Adeleine aside, the rest are, y'know, decent! ...Except Dark Meta Knight, who is TERRIBLE. Maybe even worse than Kirby! But...if Dark Meta Knight draws as badly as Kirby, and Dark Meta Knight is Meta Knight's mirror world duplicate...

Do you see where I'm going with this...?

(I blew out all my art skills on Apologies. Take this Kirby Meta Knight tier scribble...)

Just imagine, King Dedede boldly dictating the duo's letter of challenge to Meta Knight for the knight to write down... horribly! And King Dedede, who can't read, has no idea it's written in "Nub Scratch," nods happily that their "flawless" letter should be sent to Kirby immediately! Meta Knight, who cares about his image, does not clue him in to the truth. Neither does Kirby, who couldn't read it even if it were legible. Meta Knight's bad handwriting remains a secret that goes with him to his probably very cool-looking grave!

...

As for how money fits into the low-literacy world of Kirby, it's not hard to imagine King Dedede being responsible for that! The man loves his shinies! Assuming he wasn't born with a king's robe and crown on him, we have to accept that he dressed himself that way because he likes it! He likes being/looking wealthy and in charge. He likes gold. Maybe not as much as a certain rat, but enough.

And what is a kingdom without its own currency? ...Or maybe all those treasures in the Great Cave Offensive came with price tags and Kirby's just dutifully reporting the numbers to us?

--

(1)Young/Child Kirby is fine, btw! Honestly, some more modern content, like the concert, have been skewing in a young Kirby direction, with Kirby needing to take a nap in the middle of the show due to how late it was. As an old school fan, I still prefer my Kirby to be something unfathomably old (yet forever young at heart) or something cosmic beyond our mortal concept of age while still somehow able to be a friend to all... but that's a Dess-Lore thing!

(2) Of course, Kirby (and by association, Meta Knight) aren't natives to Popstar - Kirby being a wanderer carried on a Spring Breeze - thus, Dream Land's lack of an education system wouldn't affect whether the two know how to read or write. But I believe the same "Why does reading matter on their planet of origin?" / "Why would they have such a system?" COULD apply to them as well.

...For the humor of it, if nothing else!

[kriiqks]

hello deltarune fans may I introduce my number one thought right now THAT NOBODY IS TALKING ABOUT parallels between chara & asriel and kris & noelle

DIALOGUE SIMILARITIES

 ASRIEL

NOELLE DIALOGUE

both pieces of dialogue reference being STRONG 

they also both have doubts. Noelle is doubting Kris, and Asriel is doubting Chara, but they both give themselves false hope and tell themselves that everything they (Noelle and asriel) are doing for the other person (kris and chara) is valid. also, asriel is the son of the king and queen of the underground, and noelle is the daughter of the mayor, both powerful positions that give asriel and noelle high authority. kris and chara are also the only humans in the places they are. kris is the only human in hometown, and chara is the only human in the underground.

also before we get to my biggest connection I just want to say that I am not saying their relationships are the same, I’m just saying they’re very similar. The amount of similarities could also mean that Kris and Noelle’s relationship may end as tragically as Asriel and chara’s did. ALSO I AM NOT VILLAINIZING CHARA OR KRIS I LOVE BOTH OF THEM I AM A CHARA AND KRIS DEFENDER FOREVER

now onto my biggest reason.

hmmmm.....

HMMMMM......

BOTH HEART SHAPED....... HMMMM........

coincidence? I think NOT. and before u go “oh but the spamton locket is of spamton!!” then why does the link on the description lead to one of Noelle’s blog posts about her relationship with Kris. CASE CLOSED 🤷

[vevesumi]

deltarune theory

ok this has like 0 chance of being real and i honestly only have 1 piece of evidence or whatever but if i dont get this out of my system im gonna lose it

this sorta ties into a 'kris is time traveling' theory, so lets assume they are in fact time traveling. if thats the case, why are they afraid of spamton?

they should know hes there, right? you could say its cause kris still got jumpscared or whatevs, but new theory with 0 proof for fun and profit!

the secret bosses used to be 'normal' allies for kris. maybe spamton was a normal business man and offered to help find dess for kris? why does kris time travel and deal with our sorry ass? to look for dess/save the world.

how does jevil and spamton work here then? kris time traveling with gasters possible help fucked up something. maybe dess herself did. ch 1 is sorta early so we dont see much of kris and jevil interaction, but seam is definitely sus.

spamton goes from normal successful guy trying to help some lightner kid, to, somehow, completely crashing and burning. maybe on a subconscious level he KNOWS hes supposed to be good at selling and that drives him mad. gaster goes 'oh i fucked up' and tries to help him but he cant really do much atm for whatever reason angels heaven and all that.

anyway uhhh wont have any further ideas or thoughts til the next chapters come out feel free to talk about it lemme know what you think.

[tigerbears]

How old was Noelle when Dess Holiday disappeared?

One day I decided to answer this question by searching for Spelling Bee’s with the word “December” in them to estimate what grade/how old Noelle was when Dess disappeared, and it made me feel like Noelle goddamn Holiday searching for Dess. (I kept getting Spelling Bee’s IN December.)

But I found a few spelling bees that had December in them. Here’s what I found in my research.

Archdiocesan Spelling Bee Word List:

3rd to 4th grade. (8-10 years old)

Scripps National Spelling Bee:

3rd grade in the One Bee category. (8-9 years old)

2021 Words of the Champions:

One Bee. (The other spelling bee says one bee is between grades 1-3. Seeing as that one lists December as third grade, it's safe to assume it's third grade in this one.)

5th Grade Summer Enrichment Activity

5th grade (10-11 years old)

Summary:

Assuming the Spelling Bee was shortly after December disappeared, Noelle would be somewhere between the 3rd and 5th grades when Dess disappeared. (So, 8 to 11 years old.)

(If the links ever die I put wayback machine alternatives under "the "keep reading" line for most of the links.)

Archdiocesan Spelling Bee Word List.

Scripps National Spelling Bee:

2021 Words of the Champions:

5th Grade Summer Enrichment Activity

[abandoned-quiche]

I personally think that Dess hates the whole Christmas theming her family has. Or, rather, she hates being forced to play a part in it.

That's why she changed her name to Dess; she doesn't want this stupid holiday gimmick to be her whole identity. On deltarune.com/december, the error page tells you the page you are looking for might have had its name changed, hinting you to search for "Dess" instead, where you can find her actual page.